The AP reports that the Trump regime floated a proposal to activate 100K National Guard troops to round up undocumented immigrants.
The Trump administration is considering a proposal to mobilize as many as 100,000 National Guard troops to round up unauthorized immigrants, including millions living nowhere near the Mexico border, according to a draft memo obtained by The Associated Press.
The 11-page document calls for the unprecedented militarization of immigration enforcement as far north as Portland, Oregon, and as far east as New Orleans, Louisiana.
Four states that border on Mexico are included in the proposal — California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas — but it also encompasses seven states contiguous to those four — Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.
White House spokesman Sean Spicer said the AP report was “100 percent not true” and “irresponsible.” ”There is no effort at all to utilize the National Guard to round up unauthorized immigrants,” he said.
The denial issued by the slab of Spam with eyes that Melissa McCarthy occasionally impersonates on SNL isn’t very convincing since the Trump regime, from its titular head on down, lie all the time. And AP has a memo.
Valued commenter Ajabu had an idea for a response to the so-called president’s constant fear-mongering about immigrants: a photo array featuring select immigrants and “real Americans.” He edited a ton of photos that illustrate the foolishness of Trump’s “ooga-booga” act. Here’s a sample:
I think I’ll make this a recurring feature until I run out of photos from the cache Ajabu sent, rather than just publishing the whole array in one fell swoop. Sadly, I’m confident we’ll have many more opportunities to respond to scaremongering on immigration in the coming months.
*Yes, I know this is a line from “Hamilton.” I’m still not joining your stupid cult! :)
Gin & Tonic
Failed to close an italic tag.
Renie
everyone is now saying this AP report is Dolt45’s way of continuing his fake news line; throw something to press; don’t answer their questions about it; it gets printed; then say it’s fake news
yet even if this was a pre-draft its frightening that someone actually thought it up
EBT
Dry run to condition the guard for use against civilians? deadbeat donnie promised to “hurt” the big blue states.
rikyrah
@Renie:
s
Uh huh
Uh huh
Roger Moore
It’s a misquote from Hamilton. The correct quote is “Immigrants. We get the job done.”
LAO
Brilliant, Ajabu.
Gin & Tonic
Speaking of immigrants and jobs, The Grauniad is reporting that the women who assassinated Kim Jong Nam in Malaysia were no master Korean ninjas but Indonesian women who were convinced they were acting in a “prank”-style video. They’d come up on several men before and sprayed them with water, but this time they were given the real payload.
Betty Cracker
@Renie: So I’ve heard, but until there’s evidence that the 11 page memo the AP has is fake, I’ll assume the Trump people are lying.
lollipopguild
How many immigrants fought in our military during W.W.2? Thousands? hundreds of thousands? How many immigrants are serving in our military right now?
Cacti
Storm troopers for Trump’s new Fugitive Slave Act.
schrodingers_cat
@Renie:The T regime is packed with white nationalists, Miller, Bannon, Kobach. This is their fever dream, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were true.
donnah
I’m wary of leaked reports and weary of being outraged. I will save my fury for the things that actually happen. I’m already stewing about the ridiculous reversal of the stream protection law and the upcoming campaign rally that Trump is holding as a fundraiser and ego-stroker tomorrow in Florida. Jeez.
There are so many terrible things being done by the Republicans that it’s hard to keep track.
tobie
I ask in all seriousness: Should people here on visas or green card holders carry their documentation with them at all times? This cuts very close to home.
jeffreyw
The nine most terrifying words: President Donald Trump is holding a press conference, again.
Another Scott
Did Spicer pull a WJC? “It depends on what the meaning of is is.”
But beyond that, since it’s reasonably clear that there is no overall direction being set by Trump or anyone else, and people in his administration are running amok doing whatever they want without coordination, why would Spicer know whether it was a genuine proposal or not?
Cheers,
Scott.
bemused senior
I posted this yesterday, but it is very important so here it goes again. If you are a California voter, please write your State Senator and Assembly person to express your strong support for Senate Bill 54, the California Values Act sponsored by Senate President Pro Tempore Kevin De Leon. This bill will ensure that state resources are not used to fuel deportation. This includes sharing state databases with Federal law enforcement for the purposes of immigration enforcement and use of state or local law enforcement resources for this purpose. You can find a model letter in English and Spanish at this Google Docs link. (Sorry that it is a bad scan of printed materials I was given at a training for immigration raid rapid response teams.)
Thoroughly Pizzled
Join us, Betty! Join us! Jooooooooiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin us! It’s blisssssssssssssssssssss.
Mike J
WH is now saying we wish AP had come to us first. AP did ask WH for comment, WH refused. AP ran it, the WH says fake news and they never asked us.
schrodingers_cat
@lollipopguild: Also disproportionately represented among rural doctors, farmhands, scientists. Contributing payroll taxes which they may or may not be able to use. Demonized for wanting a better life. For seeking fortune beyond a 20 mile radius where they were born.
jimmiraybob
This is a bit off topic but isn’t this the time of year that we might expect a State of the Union thingy from a newly elected Guy Occupying White House.*
* Can’t use the P-word yet.
sigaba
@Betty Cracker: Trump’s razor.
People gotta drop the idea that he plans this stuff out. He thinks he’s a genius and totally on the up and up, he doesn’t plan coverups and conspiracies. The ones that occur he blunders in to.
He does not “set up” the press because he doesn’t think he has to. He thinks all of his ideas are brilliant and will be universally hailed, until they aren’t, whereupon he immediately tries to spin that he had nothing to do with it and it doesn’t mean what it says it means and the negative consequences are all Fake News.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
You know you love it.
Apt quote, great post.
Commenter patrick II, had the best comment on Trump’s malignant immigration enforcement in a previous thread:
NotMax
Brava!
Calouste
@tobie: You are already required by law to carry your green card at all times. Visa as well IIRC.
dmsilev
@jimmiraybob: The 28th, I think.
I wonder who the Democrats will choose to give their response. I’m thinking a cardboard cutout of Barack Obama with one of those “miss me yet?” signs, and just have the camera hold that position for 45 minutes.
Mike in DC
@jimmiraybob:
Trump is addressing a joint session of Congress on the 28th. I have no idea of the subject matter.
? Martin
To bridge the previous thread: Just as a reminder of how things can change, Reagan became Governor of California during the anti-tax build up. He brought that message to the federal government (sorry, we’ll try to make it up to you during President Harris’s two terms) but that message has faded in California. Voters have approved tax increases on the wealthy each of the last elections, and we have more rich people than anyone else.
Not sure where this will go, but today we’ll have a new pawn on the board.
This isn’t a fully formed plan, rather it’s designed to channel energy from those that are concerned about the repeal of ACA into something productive. I’ll leave it to David to explain how massive a lift this is, and how potentially disruptive it would be to a state that is one of the few left with an somewhat functioning health insurance marketplace.
California has introduced a bill to give refugees resident status as soon as they arrive, without having to wait a year, and to extend veteran benefits to refugees that served as military translators. As you can see we would like to cover immigrants with health care. This is not a terribly controversial thing here. Even up in the central valley where the conservative voters are, they know that immigrants are their labor base – they don’t want open borders, but they don’t want what Trump proposes either.
I’ve long said that the ACA would eventually provide a bridge to single payer. Single payer is really difficult to do because it’s destructive – you are wiping out at least part of the insurance industry, and that’s a lot of jobs, etc. and so it probably needs some kind of a crisis to get done in this country (could be financial crisis). CA may be using Trump as that crisis.
Calouste
@sigaba: The Shitfest Of The Unhinged is scheduled for 2/28.
cmorenc
My father’s side of the family were white immigrants, but nevertheless at a time when the country they came from was particularly reviled, and immigrants therefrom often received at least as difficult a time as do Hispanic and Muslim immigrants today. Germany during WW1 – my grandfather was a seaman on a German merchant marine vessel in 1914 that was in the vicinity of Iceland, on its way back to Hamburg, Germany at the moment WW1 broke out between Britain and Germany, and the ship literally had to turn around on a dime and out-race British navy ships chasing it back to Boston harbor. He and his ship-mates were marooned in Boston for the duration of the war, and when the war ended, he wisely chose to stay rather than return to the ruin of Germany. And yes, WW2 was a bit of a tricky period, even for German immigrants who had in the inter-war interim acquired American citizenship. My paternal grandmother was also a German immigrant who came through Ellis Island as an impoverished teenager c. 1910 as an indentured servant on the dairy farm that had paid her passage.
Fuck you, Donald Trump, I suppose your ancestors were native Americans? The kind whose ancestors had lived in North America for 10k+ years.
ET
I know that in certain situations the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act of 1807 don’t apply to National Guard or active military, but this doesn’t seem like this would be a situation that would fall within that based on my admittedly limited knowledge.
different-church-lady
@Betty Cracker:
mai naem mobile
Do you have to be a citizen to be part of the National Guard? I could swear I’ve known a couple of people who were in the National Guard who weren’t citizens at the time.
schrodingers_cat
@Mike in DC: Anybody darker than a bag of flour or less orange than cheeto is evil.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@tobie:
I would say that unless you are:
1. Porcelain white, and
2. Speak with a strong regional accent (preferably with some abominable cracker shitmouth drawl, something I have long avoided),
you should consider carrying your proof of status at all times.
rikyrah
I will say it again…
Truth is ALWAYS stranger than fiction
Outline of the story of the assassin behind Kim Jung Il’s brother’s death. This is phucking crazy!!!
Renie
why is there no outrage at all the weekends away from the WH and the millions of dollars being wasted cuz he wants to play golf….i bet more money has been wasted on him and Melania so far than it cost the Obamas to go away during one term
plus how do they rationalize eric trump wanting immigrants to work at his winery with all this deportation maybe they should start at trump properties
schrodingers_cat
@mai naem mobile: No. I had a couple Guyanese students who were in the National Guard and the Army prior to that. One of them became a citizen, but that was after he graduated. That’s one of the quicker paths to naturalization, serving in the military.
hovercraft
@Renie:
They may try to spin it that way, but they have the memo, plus they can barely find the toilets, let alone be this pro-active. Nah this crew doesn’t know who is doing what when or with whom. Twitler has the attention span of a flea, so when one of the Steve’s suggests stupid shit, he agrees to it, when the blowback comes and everyone says WTF, he either doesn’t remember or pretends he doesn’t and they deny it. Problem with the leaks is that the shit is getting out before they have a chance to sit down think* it through, figure out how to roll it out in the most positive way possible.
* What passes for thought /strategy with this lot is just lie and lie and lie some more, so perhaps they don’t need a strategy, but then they really should root out the Obama moles who are leaking about them. Problem is the calls are coming from inside the house :-(
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Mike in DC:
That’s the SOTU address. I’m buying an expensive bottle of bourbon for it.
Mnemosyne
@cmorenc:
My half-Italian aunts were still being called “wops” and “dagoes” in the 1940s and 1950s in the Chicago suburbs.
debbie
@Mike J:
Fake, as in someone made the whole thing up on their own; or fake, as in they’ve been considering the plan but nothing’s been decided? I’m going with the latter because the plan sounds so Bannonesque, but at the next presser, someone needs to ask Trump to define fake.
PaulW
@Mike in DC:
It’s gonna be about his electoral college win, it was so yuge.
Calouste
@rikyrah: To stay on the topic of the thread, at least one of the assassins was an immigrant. Immigrants get the job done!
Not sure whether it is that smart to use unwitting killers. They are going to sing like a canary.
JanieM
@tobie: @Calouste:
If a citizen isn’t carrying proof of status — because after all, citizens aren’t required to — what’s to stop these people from picking up anyone they don’t happen to like on whatever basis?
Nothing.
Person on the street: Officer, I’m not carrying papers, I’m a citizen.
Trump-enabled officer: Yeah, right. Off you go into detention until you can prove it.
That’s a huge feature of this sh!t that I don’t think a lot of people have ever understood. Of course, those are the people who figure that only “they” (dark-skinned, speaking English with an accent, whatever) are at risk anyhow, so why worry about it?
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: @Mnemosyne: My old landlord was Sicilian, his grandfather was on one of the last boats before Ellis Island was shuttered. He said that he was strictly forbidden from speaking any Italian outside the house.
schrodingers_cat
@JanieM: There have been horror stories of citizens being deported.
Yarrow
@cmorenc:
Republican President Donald’s Trump’s mother was an illegal immigrant, I believe.
Edit: Using their language. I read that she entered the US without proper immigration documents.
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
I was called a kike in the eighth grade. Stuff never dies.
scav
Another reason to leak a memo like this is to buttress the perception that things are being accomplished. Depends on timing of leak, but if somebody got stung by the mocking / comparisons about what was actually accomplished in the first n-days of various administrations they might have decided to go with a ‘see things are being moved ahead leak’. Then, other elements of the dis-administration start contributing their own individual takes on said memo as they see fit. Everything eventually depends on the ratings, so some might hold comment until they get some, while others will just reverse course mid-sentence depending on personal style.
? Martin
@mai naem mobile: No. Nor a member of the regular military. In fact, serving in the armed services has been a standard pathway to citizenship for some time.
Lizzy L
Follow the money. Mobilizing 100,000 National Guard members costs, and the states are not going to be willing to pay for it. 45 will have to ask Congress for the funds. I think this is jive for his voters, and unless and until Congress appropriates funds, I remain skeptical. YMMV.
bl
Is there a website or place to go to track CEOs, etc that publicly back Trump and his policies. I would like to know which businesses to boycott, if possible, and let them know it.
I also urge that we support businesses that publicly state they are not behind mass deportation, removing health care, etc.
p.a.
@schrodingers_cat: Mt. St. Charles is a Rhode Island Catholic HS in what was then a heavily French Canadien part of the state. In the 1920’s several teachers were excommunicated for continuing to teach classes in French when the dioscese had forbidden it because they were cowed by nativist pressure.
? Martin
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Thank god it’s on the 28th. I’ll be in my Horizon Zero Dawn safe space denying any other reality exists.
pamelabrown53
@Betty Cracker:
I doubt that the AP memo is a fake. However it might have been “faked” to both allow the Trump admin. to claim it’s “FAKE NEWS ” and set traps for leakers.
It also has the added bonus of distracting from the Manchurian Candidate stories while riling up Trump’s base ahead of his first re-election campaign stop-less than 30 days into his miasmic “presidency”.
Seth Owen
@mai naem mobile: No. Green card holders can join the Guard. Certain MOS are not open due to security clearances needed.
maya
A little math for ya:
It is estimated that there are approx 11,000,000 “illegals” in the USA.
Last week ICE agents allegedly rounded up 680 of them.
11,000,000 ÷ 680 = 28,947 weeks of rounding up.
28, 947 ÷ 52 weeks in a year = 556.7 years.
Obviously, this ain’t gonna work
rikyrah
@Cacti:
truth
Humboldtblue
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I don’t drink liquor (strictly cheap beer for me) but I bought this bourbon for a dear friend for his b-day and we shared a tot. It was fucking delicious.
Calouste
@JanieM: Yep.
And of course you’re only documented as long as your papers haven’t been put through the shredder yet anyway.
rikyrah
@Brachiator:
Kapow.
NR
@Mike J: It’s starting to look like the Trump administration is leaking fake stories to the press in order to inoculate him for when real stories come out. Since Trump is apparently changing the rules for how his White House deals with the press, the press should change the rules for how they deal with him. One thing they can do to start is this: if an administration source gives a reporter false information, that source should be burned. The press shields sources to ensure they get true and accurate information; they have no obligation to do so for someone who feeds them lies.
rikyrah
Awe…come on…you’ll enjoy it :)
tobie
@Calouste: Good to know. In my household we’ve never done this. Now we’ll have to start.
JanieM is right, though. Citizens don’t have to verify their status and this means in principle that anyone can be stopped until their status is checked.
? Martin
@Lizzy L: I think it’s a trial balloon. But if true I think it’s also a means to shift the national attention to California. We will absolutely explode over this. You will see control over the guard fought between the Governor and the President. It’ll go to the courts immediately. It will be ugly and consume the news cycle. And it will be contrasted with Texas who has a governor that will be 100% down with it.
hovercraft
@dmsilev:
So I’m picturing a future history class, where they are comparing SOTU speeches from the early 21st century and the student is going between 44 and 42 saying WTF?
Gallup: Trump job approval 21 points below average at one-month mark
At this point anyone who gets up and gives a calm coherent speech will be seen as having successfully represented the democratic party. He cannot help himself, with all the negative press and the protests and the poll numbers, he will be ready for a great big Festivus speech, knowing he will be getting his largest audience since the 12 million who came to his inauguration, he will not allow the opportunity to go to waste.
ruemara
@tobie: I refuse to.
The memo was not fake. The WH said it wasn’t seriously considered. That’s quite different from being fake. An 11 page proposal to violate Posse Comitatus was presented and the best they can say is it wasn’t seriously considered. They’re gauging the response from supporters & resisters alike to see if it’s worth the effort or if they can find a better way that’s more under the radar. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.
rikyrah
MADISON, Wis. (AP) – Republican Rep. Sean Duffy says he will not run for U.S. Senate against Democratic Sen. Tammy Baldwin in 2018
— Josh Lederman (@joshledermanAP) February 16, 2017
Old Dan and Little Anne
I laugh to keep from crying. Tiny Trump meme is born. Link to tiny trump pics.
Yarrow
@Lizzy L:
This is the best thing to do with this administration. He’s up to his eyeballs in debt. The Russians own him. Follow the money.
rikyrah
@ruemara:
It’s ELEVEN PHUCKING PAGES…
THAT’S NOT FAKE!!!
Jack the Second
@tobie: Moreover, what should natural born citizens carry on them to prove their status?
rikyrah
@Renie:
I know…where are the folks who followed everything 44 did to the penny, for his vacations.
? Martin
@ruemara: Right. It looks like a trial balloon to me. Pull the idea together, get it out there for public reaction, use that reaction to determine if you should go forward.
It’s real if well received and fake if it’s not.
max
Valued commenter Ajabu had an idea for a response to the so-called president’s constant fear-mongering about immigrants: a photo array featuring select immigrants and “real Americans.” He edited a ton of photos that illustrate the foolishness of Trump’s “ooga-booga” act. Here’s a sample:
And that works because there are a couple of hundred million ‘Real Americans’ so you can cherry-pick the bad people. Meantime, there are also tens of millions of immigrants, so you can cherry-pick any number of good people from that – more good people than you will ever personally know in your lifetime. Or you can cherry-pick bad immigrants…. more than you will ever personally know in your lifetime. Immigration is a thing, neither good nor bad, but it’s occurring in a world with more than 7 billion people (a number larger than the human mind can comprehend), so if you wanna lose your shit over it, or turn into Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm, you can.
Meantime, if truly large numbers of people started immigration (>20 plus million a year) the system would be swamped and start to break down after awhile. At the other end, no immigration mean less economic growth and fewer brains. If we were going to talk about a real underlying problem here, it’s that we’ve gone and turned into a fucking Empire, and over time Empires pay less and less attention to the needs of their people (whether those people have been citizens forever, or just got here) and more and more attention to the needs of whichever claque of the rich and powerful can seize control of the system and milk it for their personal benefit and the benefit of their foreign clients and/or allies. Thus, Trump’s bullshit campaign about draining the swamp is followed by his dedication to benefiting himself and his rich allies. And apparently Putin and Bibi Netayantu.
But our serious social & political problem stems from the fact that too many people watch too much fucking TV/cable TV news which is constantly showing of pictures of those people doing bad things. First it was bad black people, which gave us the great wave of imprisonment and gulag-building that made us the greatest prison state in the world, then it was the bad Muslim terrorists, which gives us our current panic about ISIS/ground zero Mosques/Eurabia and all that horse shit. The TV is reinforcing the impression we’re overrun by criminals (blacks), evil immigrants (Mexicans) and terrorists (Muslims), so everyone thinks crime/terrorism is worse than ever and it ain’t.
Completely unhelpfully, the Baby Boomers are getting ooooollllddddd and the usual mental hazards of old age are kicking in.
max
[‘Trump got elected because he shares the growing unhingedness of a large part of our elder population.’]
sukabi
@Mike in DC: subject matter will include the following:
1) largest electoral college vote total EVAR
2) millions of illegal voters cost me the popular vote
3) I inherited a mess
4) it’s Obama’s and Hillary’s fault
5) fake news
Same as it always is..
MJS
@NR: I don’t believe for a second that anyone in the Trump administration has the intelligence to draft an 11 page phony document. One page, maybe two, yes. But after two pages, anyone reading the document would immediately know that it was nonsense produced as a trap.
Lizzy L
@? Martin: Certainly possible. CA will, as you say, reject this.
Yarrow
@Old Dan and Little Anne: Oh…that is hilarious. Gave me a good laugh. Thanks for the link. Can’t wait to see what people come up with. There has to be one of him as Ivanka’s toddler.
JPL
@hovercraft: Fox the fake news channel has him at 39 percent.
Chris
@Jack the Second:
Now might be a good time to recall that these are the same twits who recoil in horror at any hint of a National Identity Card.
pamelabrown53
@Mike in DC: #26
I think the content of Trump’s SOTU address is a no brainer. He’ll talk about his magnificence, he’ll talk about how only he can fix the absolute dystopian MESS that he inherited from President Obama.
In other words, his first SOTU will be creepy crazy where the Breitbarts and Limbaughs will triumphantly claim the sun rises on the West.
Mnemosyne
Some idiot on Facebook “liked” a sign an employer posted threatening to fire anyone who stayed home yesterday for the immigration protest. Um, isn’t that an admission that they’re using illegal workers?
Old Dan and Little Anne
@Yarrow: It made my day. lol….
? Martin
@Jack the Second: Drivers license suffices. Even in states like California that issues drivers licenses to undocumented, it’s clearly indicated on the license that they are undocumented. So drivers license (or state issued photo ID if you don’t drive) does serve as a generally accepted proxy for being here legally.
LAO
Wow. This really bothered me. (And no I haven’t read the comment thread)
LAO
Pruitt confirmed to end the EPA!
Yarrow
@Jack the Second:
That national ID card the Republicans are so freaked out about? Papers, please!
schrodingers_cat
@p.a.: I have heard similar stories about French heritage peeps in ME and MA.
prob50
@Mike in DC:
I think that gives you something in common with our Scumander and Cheat.
But it won’t stop him from speaking at length, regardless.
Corner Stone
@? Martin:
I am not so sure about that. Abbott can talk about it all he wants but I think a huge chunk of the money in TX does not want to see serious deportation happen. I can’t even begin to imagine the economic devastation that would happen if TX turned the NG against Latino/a here.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: When you are white and rich you can never be wrong you can only be wronged. That’s the philosophy of T-philes any way.
Betty Cracker
@bl: https://grabyourwallet.org/
Betty Cracker
@LAO: Did any Democrats vote for him? There’s no excuse on this nominee. No. Excuse.
NR
@MJS: Maybe. But regardless, the point still stands. There’s a pretty unprecedented amount of bullshit coming from “sources” in the White House. Reporters should start burning the sources that give it to them. If this White House is going to lie to them on a regular basis, they need to fight back, and that’s one way to do it.
? Martin
@pamelabrown53: It’ll be this, but with way less charisma and a lot more whining.
SiubhanDuinne
@jimmiraybob:
Haven’t scrolled through the rest of the comments yet, so this may have been answered, but yes, Dolt45 will address a joint session of Congress on Tuesday, February 28 at the invitation of the ZEGS.
True, it’s not an official SOTU, but I’m still curious as to how the Democrats will choose to present their response — and whether the networks or cable outlets (apart from C-SPAN) will bother to carry it.
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker: Someone in a previous thread said Heidi Heitkamp’s office said she was voting for him.
pat
@MJS:
Wasn’t it drafted by Kelly, sec of homeland security? the guy who got in with a few dem votes?
Boatboy_srq
@maya: “Cadre kids: don’t forget, October is bonus recruitment month. Earn double points for turning in a family member.”
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
I was called a ni**er in 2002, in Farmingville, Suffolk Co., Long Island, fucking NY. So no it never goes away, he also told me to go back where I came from.
Yarrow
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m not going to watch it. Won’t give him ratings. But I expect him to name names from the podium, like calling out “that lightweight Chuck Schumer,” and bashing Hillary Clinton again. If between now and then the courts do something he doesn’t like he’ll threaten any Supreme Court Justices that show up that aren’t far right wingnuts. He may do the same to GOP leadership if they’ve indicated to him they won’t support something he wants.
It’s going to be a shitshow, as usual. But could be wildly riveting, kind of like yesterday’s press conference was.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Corner Stone:
Plus, wouldn’t that galvanize the sleeping Latino electorate into a huge anti-GOP wave?
rikyrah
Powerful— CBC reporter finds a Somali refugee fleeing the US into Canada: “America is problem now.” https://t.co/DuToDK4Zp8 pic.twitter.com/3e1V9xNyVi
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) February 17, 2017
LAO
@Betty Cracker: It appears to have been a party line vote: 52-46
ETA: I am wrong. Manchin and Heitkamp voted for and Collins voted against. (as best I can tell).
Renie
In answer to my own question about $$ on trumps, Robert Reich did a breakdown on his FB on what they are costing us
already 10 million just for Florida trips
hovercraft
@pamelabrown53:
It’s all fake news:
Gorka Calls BBC ‘Fake News’ When Host Asks Him About Flynn, WH Chaos
See if they don’t like it it’s fake !!
tobie
@Betty Cracker: Heitkamp and Manchin. Neither would even commit to voting to delay the vote until his correspondence with the oil and gas industry was removed.
I called Heitkamp’s Fargo office and gave the person on the other end a piece of my mind. I felt entitled to, even though I’m out of state, because I had actually donated to Heitkamp’s senate campaign.
scav
@LAO: Guardian’s been reporting on that for a while. Refugees crossing into Canada from US on foot despite freezing temperatures (Feb 7) and Photos Feb 16). I forget which outlet had the article about the ones that lost fingers to frostbite getting there.
The Moar You Know
@max: Sadly, I’m seeing more and more evidence that this is the case every damn day.
LAO
@scav: I know, it’s all awful. It’s just that I found the video to be heartbreaking.
Gindy51
@Yarrow: That fuck from WV too Manchin, he voted for the pruitt thing mainly due to COAL, the dying fossil fuel.
captnkurt
@jimmiraybob:
There’s always the acronym for So-Called Ruler of the US, aka SCROTUS.
Mary G
@? Martin: I haven’t heard about any rich people leaving the state after we raised their taxes either. The LA Times recommendations against the proposition notwithstanding. (They said that the increase was sold as temporary, so it was bad faith to make it permanent. Morans.)
Part of the reason is that Gov. Moonbeam also cut spending, too. He learned from being the mayor in Oakland. The increase was bigger, but even my wingnut neighbor didn’t pitch a fit.
Another Scott
@scav: BBC: ‘I lost all my fingers’: Asylum seekers make dangerous border crossing
:-(
Cheers,
Scott.
hovercraft
@JPL:
That’s his problem, he’s down across the board, apart from Rassmussen. FOX will do it’s best not to highlight his negative rating, they will cherry pick what they can that shows him in a better light, I think he is in positive territory on the economy, and yada yada the bad parts, focus on the Rassmussen poll, the rubes will never even know they have him down just like everyone else.
Trabb's Boy
I saw that the travel ban was very costly for businesses in the week it was in place. I’d like to see statistics on travel since then. I bet people with green cards are really hesitant to travel unless it is absolutely necessary, not to mention that the tourism industry must be suffering from people creeped out by the ban and what’s going to replace it.
bluefoot
So this plan is basically “round up all the brown people and put them in deportation camps.” Who actually carries proof of citizenship with them at all times? As an American, I’m not required to carry any ID unless I’m driving (or applying for a job).
I’m brown, and people have “guessed” my ancestry from pretty much all over the globe since I am seriously mixed race, though born and bred in the Rust Belt. I’ve also stated before that people have disbelieved my American-ness *even while holding my passport that says I was born in “Red State, USA.” Second class citizen indeed.
scav
@LAO: It was more about adding content to the sub-thread you started than any idea you’ld personally been unaware — although others not keeping up with other new sources might have been. Found some of the frostbit ones from Jan in the CBC.
Major Major Major Major
So, I have a question. Since last summer I’ve read a bit about Operation Wetback, and the things discussed sound very similar. I know Trump name-checked it at one point. I know that lots of things that were popular in the 40’s are popular again, like nuking people and concentration camps, but I’m wondering – was there a lot of criticism at the time?
Peale
@Steeplejack (tablet): As far as I can tell, nothing will galvanize the Hispanic electorate. It may mean that more Mexican Americans will vote for Democrats, but as far as I can tell, no amount of pummeling that community will cause it register to vote and actually participate in elections.
? Martin
@Corner Stone:
I agree with all of that, but I got the sense that Abbot didn’t give a flying fuck about anything other than toeing the ideological hardline. If he does have that kind of sensibility (even if it doesn’t extend any farther than his own political self-interest) then that’s good to hear, but I still sort of question that given the ongoing fairly blatant gerrymandering and voter id moves there. It seems odd to me that they would be okay with a not very well hidden agenda to discriminate to try and evade the courts, but then shy away from an opportunity to do it in the open when given the chance.
Mike in DC
Anyone know how this is playing out on Spanish language TV and social media? I’d imagine “not well”.
Major Major Major Major
@Peale:
I thought the story goes that this is exactly what happened to the GOP in California.
The Moar You Know
@bluefoot: I dated a Brit with a green card for a long time. It said, in huge letters on the card “must be carried by issuee at all times” or something similar. I remember thinking “she looks and sounds more American than I do, WTF?” But that’s the law. Goes double for visa holders, they need to carry their native passport and visa at all times.
Betty Cracker
@tobie: See, it’s that correspondence that makes their votes inexcusable, IMO. I know blue dogs gotta blue dog, but they could have and should have held out for the emails.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
Well, yes, but a lot of my fellow white people don’t realize how recently they were hated by other white people and don’t think it can happen to them. But it will, because while Italians and Slavs are further down on Bannon’s shit list, they’re still on there.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack (tablet):
It would more likely drive them running scared and determined to stay underground. That’s the only reason I could possibly see the TX GOP going along with it. It’s a disastrous idea for TX, which does nothing to rule out the GOP actually doing it, but the loss of productivity and community dollars would smack them in the face immediately and viciously. The rich white people that rely on brown labor would be screaming the first hour when they realized all their workers, suppliers, help, etc vanished back across the border ahead of arrest.
tobie
I’m burning in incandescent rage about the EPA vote. How in God’s name can any Dem justify voting for a man to head the very agency he is suing?
Folks, even if you’re out of state, jam the lines in Manchin’s and Heitkamp’s local office. These two senators depend on out-of-state Dems to donate to their campaigns and knock on doors for them. They need to know there’s a price to pay for repeatedly stabbing their own party in the back. They really could have voted to postpone the vote till the correspondence was vetted. In the name of good governance, checks and balances, the principle of advise and consent, etc.
LAO
@scav: Allow me to re-phrase because my response was so inarticulate. I was in fact agreeing with you. I’m going to blame the bottle of red wine I drank last night at dinner (I’m not a big wine drinker).
All of these stories are awful but I was surprised by how much more awful it was watching an actual video rather than reading a story. Video and pictures are powerful tools; it’s no wonder camera phones have changed this country.
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: There sure was. The criticism was that the US Government was letting these brown monsters into the country in the first place to take jobs that rightfully belonged to white migrant workers, and I’m really not joking about that.
hovercraft
@Mary G:
You mean Phil Mickelson is still in that hellscape they call California, I would have thought by now both he and all the Silicon Valley millionaires and billionaires would have fled to that tax free utopia they call Texas.
debbie
@hovercraft:
I dare him to talk to Owen Bennet Jones like that.
Corner Stone
@? Martin:
Right now they are doing penny ante level scare mongering to try and suppress the vote in South TX (mainly). They dissuade latinos from registering by threatening that they *might* be arrested for trying. Actually coming for them with guns is a whole other thing. A lot of people would make the decision to remove themselves for a bit rather than wait and go through a formal process.
What a fucking nightmare.
? Martin
@Peale: I think one difference is that latinos in California were a little bit better integrated and distributed across the state, and had a lot more economic leverage here in the conservative areas. In California, the conservative areas are largely the agricultural areas and so those two things go hand in hand. It’s not nearly as tightly connected in Texas. And latinos had some experience using that political power from the farm workers fights the decade+ before.
California’s uprising was also easier to pull off because there were already some natural alliances between the broad California public and democrats on issues like the environment and labor, etc. That meant that the democratic party could package these things up in a manner that was more digestible not just to latinos but to non-latinos as well, and that’s why the uprising worked – non-latinos weren’t as ideologically aligned with the GOP at the time, so they were more receptive to the democratic view of things (and that’s only increased with time). That’s not the same dynamic as Texas, so it may not yield the same result.
Major Major Major Major
@tobie: Didn’t Manchin shoot a printout of the Cap and Trade bill in a campaign commercial?
? Martin
@Mary G: Well, we’ve pretty much moved past the notion that billionaires are job creators. They are individuals who won the venture capital lottery, and they should be rewarded, sure, but nobody is under any serious delusion that taxing them will have any impact on jobs whatsoever.
gvg
@NR: your “solution” is one we have all proposed in the past but now where you are postulating that the Trump administration is circulating “fake” info to find leaks, your solution would only burn honest outraged leakers and would NOT catch those who gave out false info deliberately. The results would be fewer leaks and I am afraid we need as many as we can get. We are kind of stuck I think.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
I totally agree, as I said to M x 4, yesterday, just because you aren’t the target today doesn’t mean you are safe. The enemies list never shrinks, it always grows.
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: As you know, it’s far more complicated than that. Yeah, Prop 187 turned the voting Hispanic community forever against the GOP (and I agree with Peale that that’s a small community compared to the numbers of Hispanics here) but the GOP held veto power over the state for almost twenty years after that.
I think the death blow was this: the CA GOP didn’t have a vision or platform and turned into the party of “no”. Just like they have nationally now. And Schwarzenegger got elected and they shot him down on everything as well, so badly so that by the end of his second term he was no longer speaking to the GOP caucus and dealing with Dems only to get things passed. We could no longer pass budgets and were over 20 billion in the hole, and the GOP didn’t help their cause by bragging about that.
Ahnuld termed out in the same election that gave CA Dems the supermajority and ended GOP rule here, and nobody wants them back. That will change after Brown leaves. If we elect a real slimebag like Newsom, it could change very quickly.
Peale
@Major Major Major Major: Yep. It only took eight years, and then the state immediately recalled its Democratic governor and replaced him with a republican movie star for eight more years. If they didn’t show up in greater numbers against Trump who was actively hostile to their existence in the country, when will they?
Mike J
@tobie: Manchin is from a coal state and Pruitt would have been confirmed even without his vote. If there had been another vote against him I would have more of a problem with it.
? Martin
@Corner Stone: That sounds vaguely encouraging then. My mom lived in Plano for a while, so I’ve technically spent a decent bit of time in Texas, but Plano is hardly a good vantage point to understanding the state (might be about the worst vantage point, actually), and that was some time ago.
Spanky
@Jack the Second:
I’m carrying two middle fingers and I’m itching to deploy them.
bluefoot
@The Moar You Know: Yeah, I get that, I know several visa holders. But I’m an American and I’m not required to carry proof of citizenship. Hell, unless one has a passport (and many Americans don’t), one doesn’t even *have* official proof of citizenship. So what do I (or any other brown person) tell the National Guard when they say my brown ass isn’t American?
NR
@gvg: I’m not talking about burning the sources who give true and accurate information, or even the ones that make mistakes or get some details wrong. I’m only talking about the ones who feed obvious bullshit stories whose purposs is to discredit the press. Reporters are under no obligation to protect people like that.
tobie
@Mike J: Thanks for trying to talk me down off my rage cliff. This is not good for my BP. I tend to look at this a little differently. The Dems had Collins; a united front might have won them another ally.
We’ll see what’s in the correspondence and what hay the Dems can make of the fact that the Senate abandoned its obligation to vet, to advise and consent in the service of expediency.
bluefoot
@hovercraft: Yep. And I was called a n*****r this morning in Cambridge, MA in Harvard Square. And told to “get out of his country.” I laughed at the guy; what a moron.
waysel
It would be kinda fun if California sicced the Guard on white, heavily red areas, jailing lots of Real ‘Mericans for not having ‘papers.’
gvg
@NR: its harder to tell right now. Too many idiots.
I think this is a trial balloon. I think we should react by getting the message out widely on what is not legal, which orders must not be obeyed, how to resist and also how much it will cost. Cost motivates some people more than right wrong. Also call congress and our state governments. Prewarn that it will cause fights in court and publicity.
Peale
@Spanky: Actually, I’m thinking of denying my citizenship and hoping for deportation. I know, its an awful process, but if I told them I was from Aruba, would they ship me there and make me stay for five years? Or maybe Tahiti.
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire
@bluefoot: If you have a Consular Report of Birth Abroad, you do. It specifically states that the individual has acquired US citizenship at birth.
Of course, this doesn’t help the vast majority of Americans.
Kryptik
I had to get a copy of my birth cert. a year or so ago to get a proper state license here. AT this rate, I might have to start carrying the copy around with me because I’m afraid of the exact thing bluefoot is. I’m a natural born citizen and even grew up in coal country , but I’ve been mistaken for everything from Mexican, to Chinese, to Indian, to Middle Eastern, and all sorts. And with a Hispanic last name, I’m extremely fucking worried I’m gonna be one of those caught in the wide cast net, simply because ‘huh, you look brown and have a hispanic last name. ILLEGAL, GET THE FUCK IN THE CAR AND OUT OF OUR COUNTRY!!’
cain
@LAO:
Y’all will laugh, but there is a Rush song for every stupid shit that Drumpf says and does :P Never mind Dougj’s troll post about a year back attacking my favorite band. Let’s start with this one:
Also obligatory – fuck off Dougj. :-)
The Moar You Know
@bluefoot: Carry a Confederate flag. Yell “Hold my beer, asshole” and then dance around in front of them with both middle fingers extended. Wave the flag. They’ll have no choice but to believe you.
In all seriousness, I do not know. Citizens (for-real citizens) have been tossed over to the Mexican side of the border before, with unpleasant consequences. I’d get a passport ASAP, frankly, if you don’t have one. And carry it.
Spanky
@Peale: Put on my Irish brogue. I just doubt the land of my ancestors would be happy to see us again after we just left in 1842.
cain
@tobie: also non-white american citizens.. I brought my passport for a domestic visit. Fucking ICE.. I’ll smack their faces with my passport. I also have a FOIA request on myself on immigration that I have on dropbox.
bluefoot
@Kryptik: Yeah, exactly. I’ve been mistaken for pretty much every not-completely white nationality on the damned globe. I was born and raised and went to school in the Rust Belt, but as far as most people are concerned, I “don’t look American” or even worse, I’m “not really American.” Whatever the fuck that means. Considering I’ve been mistaken for Native American and Native Hawaiian, I daresay I look more like I’m from here than the people questioning my citizenship.
cain
@dmsilev: That would be too much charisma
bluefoot
@The Moar You Know: Well, I have a passport. And a passport card since I go to Canada a lot. But that’s me. What about every other non-white American in the country? NO American is required to carry papers.
different-church-lady
@Jack the Second:
Assault weapons, of course.
cain
@Lizzy L:
I think the American people are going to be really surprised on the outcome of this because after spending nearly a billion dollars on the wall, troops, and everything else.. the end result is going to be higher prices on food and meat. They are going to suddenly wonder why going to the grocery store now costs 3 times as much. Then, let’s add the cost of healthcare… suddenly, nobody has money for anything.. which will likely trigger a lack of spending on anything.
So now, you’ve spent 1 billion dollars for higher food prices and lack of recreational spending. Everything will fall over from there. Good luck trying to bring those illegal immigrants back because most likely, they’ll find jos back in their countries because exporting food to the U.S. and undercutting the local farmers will be a thing and since they can charge those immigrants will likely get paid more. (debatable)
Good times, America!
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne: Unfortunately not: the protest was not limited to illegals/undocumenteds/whateverthecorrecttermisnow — it was work stoppage by immigrants of any status.
The Moar You Know
@bluefoot: True. But in these times, you cannot argue that it would be a wise decision to carry papers.
And don’t get me wrong: that is bullshit. I hate that this is where we are as a country. But…this is where we are as a country. So the challenge is to keep your freedom and property, and stay alive and free to continue the fight against this bullshit. And maybe, four years from now, we can stop carrying our goddamn papers.
Peale
@The Moar You Know: The problem is, which papers? The naturalization documents can’t be copied – its illegal. And very expensive to order replacements. And would you trust ICE agents not to take them from you?
cain
@Peale:
I have them.. I filed a FOIA on myself on my immigration and I have a PDF of all my naturalization documents including my citizenship document. I’m fucking covered and they are with me everywhere I can access the Internet.
I’m not giving up my citizenship papers without a court order. I rather go to jail, they can’t hold me..
Felonius Monk
@Mike in DC:
Unfortunately, neither does he.
TenguPhule
@Mike in DC: Empire Day. “To ensure the security and continuing stability, the Republic will be reorganized into the first American Empire! For a safe, and secure, society!
The Moar You Know
@Peale: The green card you are legally required to carry with you, so you carry that. If you’re a visa holder, your passport from country of origin and the visa. You are also legally required to carry those. If you’re a citizen, you don’t have to carry anything, but I’m thinking it’s not a bad idea to carry your passport.
As to the second part regarding ICE agents, hell no, I don’t trust them at all, but the alternative for non-citizens is to walk around without required identification, and if caught that will get you on an involuntary flight back to your “home” country with no recourse and no way to get back in, because you committed a felony.
pamelabrown53
@hovercraft: #107
Exactly, they are labeling any news outlet as “Fake News” if they don’t do a Putin state crackdown. The folks that have proffered the idea that the 11 page memo was a ringer to further try to deligitimize the press and reality are, IMHO, spot on.
Hungry Joe
I’m thinking that I’m not showing my “papers” to anyone unless it’s a legitimate demand, e.g., traffic violation (“License and registration, please”). To comply is to collaborate, to make normalize the situation. If they haul my butt to an ICE tank and it takes time to sort me out, well, I won’t like it one bit, but neither am I going to facilitate this outrage.
Easy for pale-faced me to say, I know, but still: If enough of us refuse, the plan simply can’t work.
bluefoot
@Hungry Joe: Someone said to me recently, “Don’t obey in advance” which seems like good advice. Of course, everyone will have to decide for themselves what they’re comfortable with. My brother, who is a lawyer, is a master at giving the absolute minimum necessary to LEOs and drawing out the encounter to reductio ad absurdum. That is, clearly demonstrating, and having the LEOs admit outright to, having been stopped for walking/driving/existing while brown, and then being able to walk away. As a 6+ ft brown guy, he gets to test his skills a lot. :) I keep expecting, though, that one day I will get a call telling me he;s been shot while “resisting.”
maurinsky
Didn’t read the threat, so maybe someone already shared this, but Billy Eichner played this game on his show Billy On The Street:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNQNxXHLkBc
LongHairedWeirdo
Thing is, sometimes Republicans lie like children who think they’re clever because they realized they can evade the truth.
Like “But W didn’t lie! At the time, British intel *did* believe that story!” Yeah, they did – but we’d already proved it false, so saying “British intel believes something we know isn’t true” is still a lie.
It *is* a clever way to lie because it’s not easy to shoot down with a soundbite.
Digby reported the denial as so:
Parse it carefully: right now, there is no effort.
(Remember, Bill Clinton’s impeachment was impacted by his saying “no” to (paraphrased) “is the relationship sexual?” since they’d stopped sexual activities at the time the question was asked. And that is why right wingers scorned him for saying that it depended on the meaning of ‘is’ – because he didn’t treat it as “is now, was in the past, or may be in the future”, he merely answered the question, “no it IS not.”)
Anyway: Spicer doesn’t say that there was no plan being kicked around – just that it’s not currently being implemented.
hugely
@Brachiator: El Diario d’Ana Frances
J R in WV
oops!
J R in WV
@Humboldtblue:
The make good whisky at that distillary! I visited it late one afternoon, and while the actual distillary tours were over, the guide had locked those doors behind him, he spent a long time with us in an aging warehouse, and then in the giftshop, where we tasted several top shelf bourbon whiskys.
If I’m not mistaken, they make Weller there, along with Buffalo Trace and Pappy van Winkle.
I’ll be drinking some top shelf brown liquor while Trumpkin is speechifying his lies. He can be caught telling lies because he doesn’t know any facts, and so can’t keep his stories straight with those facts. Like his electoral vote win, not the biggest by any means.