A lot of “how to convince Trump voters that Trump is bad” pieces have a real Rex-Harrison-as-Dr-Dolittle flavor to them, and make about as much sense as speaking kanga to a kangaroo. I don’t have time to waste on reasons why people who don’t listen to reasons why will all of a sudden listen to some carefully phrased reason why. But I will listen to this:
I really want you to understand the connection between Trump’s appearance and the trust his supporters place in him. What the Democratic opposition needs to do is undermine that trust. Part of doing that is pointing out every time Trump lies. (The Washington press corps is doing that.) But the opposition must also attack the president where it really hurts him—by appealing to logic and reason, but not only logic and reason. The opposition must wound the president by focusing on his weakness.
Fact is, the president is weak. We saw that yesterday. When confronted with the fact that he did not win a bigger electoral victory than anyone since Reagan, he immediately backed down, spluttering something about how he had been given that information so it’s not his fault. Some have implied he will never accept the truth, so don’t bother. But that’s an argument of logic and reason. What happened in that brief exchange needs to happen a million times over in order to reveal that the president is weak and that in that weakness his supporters have misplaced their trust.
So, say it with me: The president is weak.
This is via Wonkette, who have gone ad-free and need money.
Baud
I agree. I’ve been saying that Trump is a coward. Don’t let the bluster fool you.
Wonkette’s ads were why I don’t visit more often. I’ll have to check them out.
Virginia
I am convinced that protestors against dolt 45 should all have signs that say “Trump is a Loser!” Him seeing a sea of that everywhere he goes ought to send him over.
ThresherK
(The Washington press corps is doing that.)
There’s just something fcked up about a press corps that only commits some actual journalism on a Republican in power once the nearest Democrat is defeated.
It shows once they don’t have Hillary ButHerEmails! Clinton to kick around any more.
Corner Stone
What else would you speak to a kangaroo?
Corner Stone
Eagerly anticipating AMJoy ripping through that bananas ass press conference that weak loser had a couple days ago.
scav
Tearing aside the aura and revealing Trump is the guy they made fun of in the HS locker room and cafeteria.
Baud
Suggested sign for the March on Science:
Gator90
I’m puzzled by media references to “Trump voters” and/or “Trump supporters” as if they are some unique species separate and distinct from “Republicans.” Aren’t most Americans who voted for Trump simply Republicans who will generally vote for any Republican nominee and support any Republican president?
Spanky
@Corner Stone:
English, of course. It’s God’s own language. Just ask any Englishman.
sigaba
I really don’t see many people defending him. Some will if prodded but he’s made a lot of people shy in the last few days.
Shouldn’t worry about what other people think, in an Internet argument between two people the more certain person always wins.
amk
The msm is ‘calling the twitler out’ only because he has gone postal on them. Otherwise, these fuckers are still gopee asskissers.
Baud
@ThresherK:
Exactly right. You’ll notice that the Trump and the Republicans want to keep Hillary in the news.
scav
@Corner Stone: Many kangaroos have received an excellent education and speak fluent wallaby.
Hunter Gathers
Why bother? He’s already lost his marginal supporters. The ones that love him will just make him a martyr, blaming his failures on the press,filthy minorities, and people who don’t go to their church.
WereBear
Thanks for Wonkette tip, I’ve signed up for monthly.
As someone in that position myself, I’ve started actively funding internet places who need it.
Corner Stone
Ah, that’s just for the record. It will never make a dent on the stance of Trump’s supporters. But I do agree with the tack that shows him always being wrong and weakened when he can’t bluster through it. The weakness angle is a way to break off some of the more insecure members of his mob. They can’t stand to be associated with weak or unmanly man status.
skerry
The day after being declared enemies of the state, the Washington Post front page uses a photo of Trump and 2 of his grandchildren with the caption “Grandfather Trump”.
JMG
@Hunter Gathers: Not so. Bush fell to under 30 approval rating in 2007-2008. That could happen to Trump, too. One problem of selling the vague idea of success is that failures really alienate the audience.
Aleta
@Baud: Such a good one. I might use that.
Photos of Trump alone in a White House hallway echo the ghost of Citizen Kane. http://time.com/4672974/donald-trump-white-house-chaos/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter
lollipopguild
@Corner Stone: Once trump looks like a weak loser some of his followers will peel off, others will stick with him to the very end.
hovercraft
@ThresherK:
Republicans have succeeded in getting into the media’s heads. These people have spent their entire careers or in many cases lives, hearing about the liberal bias of the media, they have been trained to go out of their way to prove that they are not tools of the democratic party. Obviously this is bullshit, the fact that facts have a liberal bias is not our fault, we just happen to value actual facts and reality, but the media feel the need to show the republicans that they are too holding democrats feet to the fire. The fact that the media is dumb enough to do the republicans bullshit while allowing them to get away with their constant lying tells you all you need to know about the quality of our press core. They’ve been condition to accept abuse from the GOP, but god help any democrat who is critical of the media and they are whining, attacking the fourth estate. Twitler is a new challenge for them, he has taken everything up to eleventy, the question is how will they react, will they finally stand up and say enough as a group, or will it be the odd villager here and there while the rest normalize this shit, inquiring minds want to know.
WereBear
And yet another possible source of the YUUUUGE mental problems of the dümpsterführer:
Could it be neurosyphilis?
aimai
I just made this point over at Lawyers Guns and Money. Based on the book The Authoritarians, by Bob Altemeyer, you can absolutely get rabid authoritarians, slavish followers of any authority/tribal leader, to move over and adjust their goggles, by a series of careful steps. Authoritarians will stop following a given leader when other authorities (people in their own lives, people they respect, other leaders) stop giving them approval for following the former leader. They will move over when they feel publicly humiliated by their followers hip. They will drop their former leader when they feel betrayed by him, or that his humiliations are too intolerable for them to swallow.
Trump rose by “co-regulating” the affect and emotional overload of his supporters–he matched their intensity and their rage and he offered them a sense of relief and support. You can break this bond by forcing Trump to attend only to his own needs, to stop co-regulating with them (to accuse them of being bad supporters, to start bragging more specifically about himself than about them, to bitch slap him by forcing him to admit he was wrong about something, or misled about something, or is not a successful boss or businessman). These are all things that will cause his followers to stop getting enough good feelings from identifying with trump. At that point they will turn on him.
Another way of doing it is to offer people a way to reject their former allegiance to trump by letting them know they were “lied to” that trump himself and the republicans deceived them.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
I can’t wait to get home and watch, it’s my one link to the cable world I left on 11/9/16, the day the world as I knew it ended.
hovercraft
@Baud:
What does that mean? What is that sideways arrow head thingy mean.
You liberals think you are so clever with your secret symbols and stuff.
But we showed you, we beat you, many more of us came out and voted, so there!
Aleta
(Tweet from now-President Domestic Terror)
WereBear
@aimai: All very encouraging.
Let’s use science, people. That’s what it’s for.
Aleta
@scav: I’d live with a kangaroo over a T voter any day of the week.
philadelphialawyer
Trump, when confronted with the fact that he was full of shit with regards to the magnitude of his electoral college win…
QUESTION
You said today that you had the biggest electoral margins since Ronald Reagan, 300 or more electoral votes. In fact, President Obama about 365 electoral votes.
DONALD TRUMP
Well, I’m talking about Republican. Yeah.
QUESTION
(inaudible)
DONALD TRUMP
I was given that information, I don’t know, I was just given, we had a very, very big margin.
QUESTION
My question is why should Americans trust you when you accuse the information you receive for being fake when you provide that information?
DONALD TRUMP
Well, I don’t know, I was given that information. I was given — I actually, I’ve seen that information around. But it was a very substantial victory, do you agree with that? OK thank you, that’s a good answer.[the reporter had said something like “you’re the president.”]
To his supporters, this does not look “weak.” It looks like the media is trying to badger him about some technicality, and he put the reporter in his place. First by shifting his lie from biggest margin to biggest margin by a Republican (Bush the Greater did better than Trump back in ’88), which there was no chance to correct. Then by (mis) characterizing his victory as “very big” and “very substantial.” After that, by putting reporter on the spot, by asking him if he agreed with that bogus assertion. And, when the reporter refused to answer, by patronizing him with that “good answer” crap.
Lie. And when caught out in a lie, lie again (big margin, substantial margin).Shift blame (“I was given that information”). Make it seem like something that is a matter of fact which you lied about is really a matter of opinion (“I’ve seen that information around”). “Clarify” in a way that is still a lie, but a new lie that can’t be dealt with on the spot (the bit about him meaning only Republicans). Take control of the conversation by answering a question with a question, and then demean the interlocutor with patronization, when he politely insists that you are the person who is supposed to be answering questions.
This is actually what Trump excels at, if he excels at anything. He can, to a person who is predisposed to hate “the media” (or “the liberal judges” or “the liberal Democrats” or “PC” or whatever), seem like he is taking it to them. Never back down. Never admit you are wrong. When plain matters of fact get in the way, go over, around or through them. Change the subject. Play with role reversal. Trump is good, to his supporters way of thinking, at being off the cuff, at commanding the room. He is never at a loss for words.
His supporters LOVED his performance yesterday. This is like the rallies, or, even more so, the Republican primary debates, all over again.
Which is not to say that Trump can’t be beaten. But not by convincing his fans that he looks “weak” in these situations. Perhaps not by convincing his supporters at all, but by peeling off folks who voted for him despite not being fans.
And, personally, I would say that Trump looked stupid. Not necessarily “weak.”
BudP
He looks so so heavy. And Tired. He must have gained 30 pounds since election day. I’m very worried for our President.
kindness
I contribute to Wonkette. Not enough really. I think the yucks I get reading some of the commentary in particular make it worth it.
@Gator90: Average Republicans are sure better about sticking together in voting than us liberals. Sucks about that.
NeenerNeener
@WereBear:
Yeah, I’ve wondered about that. It would explain a whole lot.
WereBear
@NeenerNeener: Combined with the narcissim it is no wonder he achieved supervillain status.
elm
This is exactly right. You don’t have to fucking reason with them. You don’t have to ask their fucking permission to insult the bastard. Just insult the fucker. Disrespect him. Tell them you can’t see how anybody could be so stupid as to vote for that shitsack.
amk
@philadelphialawyer: yup, he is a master of gish gallop.
hovercraft
@philadelphialawyer:
He was corrected on the spot, and that is why he backed down, he kept trying to shift the goal posts, but Alexander kept at him, and forced him into a new story. His response at the end, that he was “given that information”, and his “seen that information around”, is weak, it does not make him look strong. His supporters admire his “strength”, anything that shows him backing down to a member of the dishonest media is not good. I realize that as a rational human being I don’t see him as they do, but based on my interaction the last couple of days, the presser was not a good showing for him. The diehards will always see something totally different from the rest of us, but the people in the middle, the ones we need to snap out of it, were disturbed. To @aimai: ‘s point, making people his fans know and respect lose respect for him can snap the connection. We are still a ways away from that, but every day he is alienating more people.
hovercraft
@BudP:
Perhaps we should send him a couple of tubs of KFC, to buck him up, we wouldn’t want him collapsing under all that stress.
WereBear
I’m deep into the first volume of the celebrated new Hitler biography, Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939. Have to take it in stages because it is so full of fascinating stuff and also because recent history leads me screaming back to a more soothing Jack Reacher or Lucas Davenport re-read.
Give me monsters I have a better chance of avoiding, please.
Still, we have some advantages. The original Hitler was a seasoned and decorated war veteran, stirring up crowds struggling with military defeat, economic depression, and a weak democracy only a decade old. His pet rant, anti-semitism, was a clear winner in a country where most of the populace were quick to agree. The lack of societal controls and the pool of idle war vets made for a rather easy assembly of brownshirts.
Our version is a stupid, weak, spoiled rich brat who has no accomplishments in his long and dissipated life. His ranting moved less than 25% of the electorate. We have been building our democracy since 1776 and while it is not as sturdy as we might have hoped, it is an evolving work in progress that will be tested and (hopefully) made stronger as a result.
Like, I had no idea the whole “submit a medical report/show us your finances/don’t get caught in a lie” thing was more of a Gentleman’s Agreement than actual rules. Now we know.
CarolDuhart2
Also I think the emphasis on convincing Trump voters is misplaced. Why not focus on our unity, organization, and objectives instead?
It’s almost as if we want to get their permission to protest Trump, as if their disillusionment is what we need to justify this.
I think it comes from decades of RNC rhetoric telling us we are the minority, that without those people’s buy-in we aren’t really connecting with the people. Never mind what we see around us in terms of demography: we liberals are always supposed to be the underdog compared to those salt-of-the earth rurals who really are Americans.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@skerry: It’s like Kay says, this is all a big Kabuki. Trump gets his base riled up and the press acts all horrified by his language. They both benefit. If the worthless WaPo doesn’t want Trump normalized they don’t print that picture. The WaPo is almost as worthless as the NYT.
BudP
@hovercraft: you have a very kind heart, just like our President
Schlemazel
People in Russia have been posting pictures of graffiti appearing calling Trump a faggot. I have made a point of reposting this. This will hurt him with those mouth-breathing knuckle-dragging morans.
philadelphialawyer
@amk: Yes, that is a much more succinct way of putting it.
But I think there is more going on. Trump doesn’t merely gish gallop, he gives his fans a symbolic victory. They hate the “liberal” media, HRC, the NYT, smarty pants judges, reporters, college professors, political correctness, and so on. The fact that he doesn’t know what he is talking about, and even the fact that he is dangerously unqualified to be president, doesn’t matter to them. All that matter is the symbolic win over “those people.”
A commentor on TAC compared it to the way that many African Americans reacted to the verdict in the OJ Simpson murder trial. They were happy because they won a symbolic victory. The fact that OJ was actually guilty of murder and got away with it was not the point. Here, the Trumpies are happy with their symbolic win, and the fact that Trump has no clue how to be the Head of Government and Head of State of the USA and C in C of the US military and leader of the Free World is not the point. Of course, there are million things wrong with that analogy, not least of which is that African Americans actually have a centuries long basis for their general resentment, and a decades long basis for not liking the LAPD (particularly right after the Rodney King affair), whereas the Trumpies’ grievances are mainly manufactured or misplaced or both. And, of course, the consequences of one miscarriage of justice, of one guilty murderer going free, are not remotely the same as the consequences of a Trump presidency. But the emotional basis is similar: Our side is finally winning one. That’s all that matters.
Elizabelle
I love this blogpost title.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
This is what I find that works – don’t preach at Trump supporter, instead turn the tables on them as ask them to explain these odd things.
“I don’t get this, Trump is in his honey moon and nothing is making sense, his admin is acting like some admin that’s involved in years of scandal”
They hear themselves say it then they start thinking.
Aleta
Hard to tell what the people who voted for him think right now, since his PR machine cooks the numbers, the internet support and the news and has paid for rally attendance. They desperately need to fake great support to keep real people in the fold.
Corner Stone
@CarolDuhart2:
I think it’s at least two things. There are more of us. But our coalition, for many different reasons, is harder to consistently get to the polls.
The other side is smaller and shrinking, yet more vocal. They are also more consistently going to the polls, up and down the ballot.
So, focusing on our organization is definitely a priority. But peeling off a few layers of their smelly onion can also be useful.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@philadelphialawyer:
Not to much a win as able to count coup against them “see, I yelled at the adults and got away with it”. Notice how Trump loses support when he blinks and acts guilty.
Corner Stone
Leonard Pitts Jr. is not here for Trump’s bullshit.
Villago Delenda Est
“Trump is weak”
(thwak!)
“Trump is a coward”
(thwak!)
“Trump is a draft dodger”
(thwak!)
CarolDuhart2
WereBear, we also have other advantages: knowledge of how things turned out, a far more diverse society, social media tools. A far more diverse society: nothing has been more heartening to find out that there have been white allies and in numbers too big to ignore. We have a society less fearful of foreigners because the post-World War II world has opened up a world of easy travel for millions. When Europe is 5 hours away, and Japan half-a-day, business connections make xenophobia not very profitable. It’s worth noting that push-back has been from major corporations-not the case with Hitler.
The 1965 immigration act also allowed the world to come to us as well, making people different neighbors and friends and fellow professionals. The 1964 act broke down legal barriers of exclusion making the old fears regarding integration useless.
He can use race, but it’s not working all that well.
Another Scott
@Baud: Nice.
I’m thinking about making a little picture of a 325 MΩ Resistor. (orange, red, green, blue).
Cheers,
Scott.
hovercraft
Mr. President: ‘Just who the hell do you think you are?’
BY LEONARD PITTS, JR.
Dear Mr. So-Called President:
So let me explain to you how this works.
You were elected as chief executive of the United States. I won’t belabor the fact that you won with a minority of the popular vote and a little help from your friends, FBI Director James Comey and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The bottom line is, you were elected.
And this does entitle you to certain things. You get your own airplane. You get free public housing. You get greeted with snappy salutes. And a band plays when you walk into the room.
But there is one thing to which your election does not entitle you. It does not entitle you to do whatever pops into your furry orange head without being called on it or, should it run afoul of the Constitution, without being blocked.
You and other members of the Fourth Reich seem to be having difficulty understanding this. Reports from Politico and elsewhere describe you as shocked that judges and lawmakers can delay or even stop you from doing things. Three weeks ago, your chief strategist, Steve Bannon, infamously declared that news media should “keep its mouth shut and just listen for a while.”
Just last Sunday, senior policy adviser Stephen Miller declared on CBS’ “Face The Nation” that “our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned.”
What you do “will not be questioned?” Lord, have mercy. That’s the kind of statement that, in another time and place, would have been greeted with an out-thrust palm and a hearty “Sieg heil!” Here in this time and place, however, it demands a different response:
Just who the hell do you think you are?
Meaning you and all the other trolls you have brought clambering up from under their bridges. Maybe you didn’t notice, but this is the United States of America. Perhaps you’ve heard of it? Nation of laws, not of individuals? First Amendment? Freedom of the press? Any of that ringing a bell?
Let’s be brutally clear here. If you were a smart guy with unimpeachable integrity and a good heart who was enacting wise policies for the betterment of all humankind, you’d still be subject to sharp scrutiny from news media, oversight from Congress, restraint by the judiciary — and public opinion.
And you, of course, are none of those things. I know you fetishize strength. I know your pal Vladimir would never stand still for reporters and judges yapping at him.
I know, too, that you’re accustomed to being emperor of your own fiefdom. Must be nice. Your name on the wall, the paychecks, the side of the building. You tell people to make something happen, and it does. You yell at a problem, and it goes away. Nobody talks back. I can see how it would be hard to give that up.
But you did. You see, you’re no longer an emperor, Mr. So-Called President. You’re now what is called a “public servant” — in effect, an employee with 324 million bosses. And let me tell you something about those bosses. They’re unruly and loud, long accustomed to speaking their minds without fear or fetter. And they believe power must always answer to the people. That’s at the core of their identity.
Yet you and your coterie of cartoon autocrats think you’re going to cow them into silence and compliance by ordering them to shut up and obey? Well, as a freeborn American, I can answer that in two syllables flat.
Hell no.
hovercraft
Sorry about the giant hyperlink, I’ve sent a request to delete it, but it’s Saturday morning so I doubt it will be deleted. sorry.
cmorenc
@ThresherK:
It’s wise for Hillary to lay as low as she has since the election – she’s deprived Trump of his main foil, and he’s been forced to concentrate his fire on the intelligence community and the MSM, each of whom are much better-positioned to fight back against Trump. When Trump does try to return to attacking Hillary, he sounds like a “sore winner”. Never thought the likes of Joe Scarborough could come up with such an usefully pithy critique of Trump, but hey, let’s take a gift horse where we find one.
Villago Delenda Est
@BudP: Hillary looks great.
K488
@sigaba: Yeats: “The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.”
philadelphialawyer
@hovercraft: I just don’t think his fans see it that way. This was the one moment where Trump was clearly caught out in a falsehood. The supposed best example of his “weakness.” And yet, at worst, he took it to a stalemate. He made it seem as if the falsehood was a mere technical discrepancy, or a matter of opinion, or an innocent boo boo on his part. Then he put the reporter on the spot, and was able to pat him on the head when he refused to take the bait.
David Hunt
Don’t you think he looks tired?
Corner Stone
And while I’m not a big fan or follower of polls, I do think it is a very good sign that he has cratered in so short a time. To a degree that seems historic. Now he will just tell his supporters those are rigged polls from fake news. But the people who are actually not wanting this crazy bullshit to keep happening everyday are starting to say so consistently.
hovercraft
Mr. President: ‘Just who the hell do you think you are?’
BY LEONARD PITTS, JR.
[email protected]
Dear Mr. So-Called President:
So let me explain to you how this works.
You were elected as chief executive of the United States. I won’t belabor the fact that you won with a minority of the popular vote and a little help from your friends, FBI Director James Comey and Russian President Vladimir Putin. The bottom line is, you were elected.
And this does entitle you to certain things. You get your own airplane. You get free public housing. You get greeted with snappy salutes. And a band plays when you walk into the room.
But there is one thing to which your election does not entitle you. It does not entitle you to do whatever pops into your furry orange head without being called on it or, should it run afoul of the Constitution, without being blocked.
You and other members of the Fourth Reich seem to be having difficulty understanding this. Reports from Politico and elsewhere describe you as shocked that judges and lawmakers can delay or even stop you from doing things. Three weeks ago, your chief strategist, Steve Bannon, infamously declared that news media should “keep its mouth shut and just listen for a while.”
Just last Sunday, senior policy adviser Stephen Miller declared on CBS’ “Face The Nation” that “our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned.”
What you do “will not be questioned?” Lord, have mercy. That’s the kind of statement that, in another time and place, would have been greeted with an out-thrust palm and a hearty “Sieg heil!” Here in this time and place, however, it demands a different response:
Just who the hell do you think you are?
Meaning you and all the other trolls you have brought clambering up from under their bridges. Maybe you didn’t notice, but this is the United States of America. Perhaps you’ve heard of it? Nation of laws, not of individuals? First Amendment? Freedom of the press? Any of that ringing a bell?
Let’s be brutally clear here. If you were a smart guy with unimpeachable integrity and a good heart who was enacting wise policies for the betterment of all humankind, you’d still be subject to sharp scrutiny from news media, oversight from Congress, restraint by the judiciary — and public opinion.
And you, of course, are none of those things. I know you fetishize strength. I know your pal Vladimir would never stand still for reporters and judges yapping at him.
I know, too, that you’re accustomed to being emperor of your own fiefdom. Must be nice. Your name on the wall, the paychecks, the side of the building. You tell people to make something happen, and it does. You yell at a problem, and it goes away. Nobody talks back. I can see how it would be hard to give that up.
But you did. You see, you’re no longer an emperor, Mr. So-Called President. You’re now what is called a “public servant” — in effect, an employee with 324 million bosses. And let me tell you something about those bosses. They’re unruly and loud, long accustomed to speaking their minds without fear or fetter. And they believe power must always answer to the people. That’s at the core of their identity.
Yet you and your coterie of cartoon autocrats think you’re going to cow them into silence and compliance by ordering them to shut up and obey? Well, as a freeborn American, I can answer that in two syllables flat.
Hell no.
FACEBOOK
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/leonard-pitts-jr/article132721909.html#storylink=cpy
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
I just posted his column, it is shrill !!
Ruviana
@WereBear: I’ve been reading Black Earth to similar effect and learning that old Adolf was really wack in addition to being crafty and in the right place at the right time. Lol about the Jack Reacher reference. Too true!
cynthia ackerman
@WereBear:
Please also consider supporting Washington Monthly, who paid to publish the piece.
WM is essential, and runs on a shoestring.
Villago Delenda Est
@philadelphialawyer:
The vile Nazi blimp Limbaugh praised his performance. Where rational, thinking people saw insanity, his supporters saw him fighting back against the “liberal” media, with all those hated “liberal” concepts like logic and reason.
His followers only understand the most primitive motivations for anything.
philadelphialawyer
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Maybe that’s a better way to look at it. Trump acts out, to “the adults.” And his childish supporters love that. The facts don’t matter. Nothing matter except yelling at them and getting away with it.
Iowa Old Lady
Since Trump has already declared for 2020, can he be using a campaign chest to replace his Foundation as a slush fund?
debbie
@Corner Stone:
What’s even nicer is that you know he won’t learn anything or make any changes.
Bess
@CarolDuhart2:
I think Enhanced Voting Techniques approach to dealing with Trump supporters is an excellent idea…
Try to get them to go beyond simple talking points. Try to make them think a bit. But, overall, I don’t think this is a portion of the voters we are likely to sway.
Better, perhaps, to concentrate on the group of voters who fall 10% to 15% each side of the political median. The goal is to win more than 50% in as many states as possible. Find issues and messaging that resonates with those people. We don’t need to win the 27% if we can get most of the other 73%.
Corner Stone
I simply hate it when Joy puts a rabid, vapid, hatefilled spewmonger onto one of her panels. I already know what he’s going to say. About any topic. All it does is chew through time we could be asking decent people good questions, aka maybe learning something.
debbie
@hovercraft:
Nice!
Shalimar
@philadelphialawyer: QUESTION Mr. President, George Herbert Walker Bush had a bigger electoral margin than you in 1988. Ronald Reagan did both times. Nixon did both times. Eisenhower did both times. Herbert Hoover did in 1928. Calvin Coolidge did in 1924. Warren Harding did in 1920. So what you’re really saying is that in the last 100 years, the only Republican who won by a smaller margin than you is George W. Bush?
CarolDuhart2
@Bess: Good point. Not every Trump voter is do-or-die. A lot simply didn’t like HIllary, or were one-issue people on abortion.
philadelphialawyer
@Shalimar: Yes, of course. Those are the facts. But, again, his supporters don’t see that as the important thing. Shoot, many of them would probably concede to you, in private, if you were their friend or relative, that Trump got this wrong, and gets many things wrong, when it comes to actual facts. They just don’t care.
Another Scott
@Corner Stone: Who are you?
What have you done with Corner Stone!?!!
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
stinger
In scrolling back through yesterday’s BJ posts, I was struck anew by the images of the press conference with the American flag in front of that garish gold curtain. I don’t remember Obama, or W or any other predecessor, using a gold curtain. It reminds me of Melania prancing around on 5-inch heels pushing a gold perambulator. So cheap and tacky, when the intent is surely to look impressive.
Anyway, Joni Ernst has some town halls next week and I’m going to try to get to the nearest one. I think they purposely hold these things in the middle of the work day so that only retirees can come. I’ll have to take time off work, and I’m lucky that I can do so. Most people negatively impacted by Republican policies don’t have that luxury. I’ll be using the Indivisible guide for maximum impact.
NeenerNeener
This is scary:
hovercraft
@philadelphialawyer: I guess I think that his supporters will stay with him to no matter what, but according to the polls his numbers took at hit, it’s true that they have been on a downward trend before hand, but they continued to do so. The presser and today’s rally will encourage his fans, but they will alienate the rest of us. The question is can we and how will we use his insanity to rally the opposition to actually get out and vote in every single election up to including the 2018 and 2020.
Taylor
@WereBear: What the 2016 election showed was what a paper tiger the US democratic system is. There’s going to have to be some serious changes to the system if we make it out the other end more or less intact, because now it’s clear how easy it would be for someone to demagogue the US political system.
Germany at least had the experience of defeat in WWI, reparations to be made after the fact, hyperinflation in the 1920s and then very high unemployment (35-40%?) during the depression.
The US has its population of aggrieved white supremacists who see demographics working against them. But I strongly suspect a large number of Trump voters just saw his entertainment value, and saw the election as a continuation of his reality TV show. Of course, they were fed that narrative by the lazy stupid fucking media, who pandered to these voters by putting Trump on 24/7, arrogantly assuming there would be no consequences to their gaming the election to improve their ratings.
Obama lectured the media on their part in helping Putin to influence the election, and they were too stupid to get his point.
aimai
@Schlemazel: No it won’t. What a ridiculous thing to do. And it is a classic example of “splash damage” which hurts people all around the target. There is no benefit to us in joining in the generic right wing gay bashing tradition of calling someone a “faggot.”
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
JD Hayworth is and has always been a vile.
Spanky
@Another Scott: ∞ Ω
Bess
@CarolDuhart2:
And, might I ask just for fun, why might a large percentage of the mid-30% have not liked Hillary? Perhaps they believed the lies? And why might they have believed the lies? Because no one gave them facts to disprove the lies?
I’ve seen people blame the press for not dealing with the lies. For not serving to educate voters. I think there’s a lot of truth in that charge.
I suspect we can’t expect the press to serve as the nation’s teachers. At least we can’t depend on them. Perhaps something that we could do is create a way to get facts to the mid-30%?
philadelphialawyer
@hovercraft: What polls do you have that suggest that Trump lost support because of, or even just subsequent, to his press conference? I can’t find any either way, except some Fox bullshit and fake on their face internet “polls.” I think the presser was partly in response to the falling poll numbers. Trump is very sensitive to polls, and he sees his “ratings” (as he no doubt looks at them) going down. The presser was an attempt to change the narrative, to speak directly to his fans, and to show them that he is still in charge, still able to stick it to Hillary, the media, etc.
cain
@Corner Stone:
I just saw a segment of that and.. HOLY SHIT.. who the fuck was that guy? It pissed of Joy and her other two guests.. she had to cut him off and kick him out. The guy was fucking insane. Unbelievable! Everything was racial with him.. he was trolling hard.
aimai
@philadelphialawyer: Oh stop it! Just stop it! Trump is not a super genius and he is not a teflon candidate–even for his die hard voters. And if he were–so what? More and more people will peel off of supporting him when he can’t accomplish any of the things he said he would accomplish. More and more of his supporters will get tired of having to turn up to mass rallies, or these incoherent press conferences. That there are a core who will never admit they were suckered is inconsequential. He can’t gain supporters at this point, he can only lose support. Being combative with the press is a good gambit for some voters, but in the long run its a losing bet.
Villago Delenda Est
@Bess: They never looked beyond the MSM’s depiction of Hillary. They don’t know that Hillary is a serious Methodist, serious about the New Testament. Of course, the New Testament is communism to most of these vile people. They’d be first in line to stone Jesus if he ever came back.
laura
@hovercraft: call the burn unit!
That’s what my late mother used to call “a glass of ice water to the face” when I needed to hear a harsh or unwelcome truth about my behavior. And that woman never told a lie in her life.
Another Scott
@hovercraft: If Nixon’s experience is anything to go by, even having his approval drop to 25% won’t be enough to get rid of him quickly.
Donnie’ll seemingly have at least the Crazification Factor base of support. What matters is driving up his negatives among those who don’t support him – not trying to convert the unconvertible.
Cheers,
Scott.
(Who figures his health will be the reason he goes – not shame or the Teabaggers turning on him. Unless we flip the House and Senate.)
philadelphialawyer
@aimai: Never said he was a super genius or teflon. Or even that his supporters will never desert him. In my first post, I said he was not unbeatable. So, how about, instead, you “just stop” putting words in my mouth?
I take issue only with the claim that the press conference made Trump look “weak” to his supporters. Do you have any actual counter argument to that limited assertion, or do you just wanna burn some straw?
West of the Cascades
@Iowa Old Lady: More importantly, under current Senate precedent, once a political campaign is underway the People must be given their voice before confirming a Supreme Court justice. And Senator Cruz has said that eight justices isn’t that much of a problem. I hope at least a few Democrats throw this hypocrisy back at McConnell and his ilk on the road to blowing up the filibuster over Gorsuch.
hovercraft
As much as we are lauding some in the media for their critical coverage of the shitgibbon, they are still acting as facilitating the GOP. They are pretending that the mewling we here from them is real, here is a front page at the WaPost right now.
Trump’s words matter — and are hurting U.S. standing abroad, lawmakers say
Leaders from both parties are sounding the alarm that the president’s rhetoric can have wide consequences. “A country’s more than one person,” Republican Sen. Marco Rubio said.
By Sean Sullivan and Mike DeBonis 1 hour ago
This is bullshit, they make these noises, and then turn around and support everything he’s doing.
tobie
The one thing that gave the home improvement guys I know pause about Trump was the fact that he stiffs subcontractors. Dems can’t emphasize enough how Trump screws workers. I hate the whole argument -by-anecdote that Reagan started but for low-information voters it works. People should talk about the kitchen staff, electricians, plumbers, dry wall installers he refuses to pay. People should talk about his sons getting special exemptions to hire foreign workers for their wineries. This stuff will stick. The guy stomps all over the little guy.
Corner Stone
@Bess:
How do you push facts to counter BS like HRC murdered her ex-lover Vince Foster to cover up her lesbian love affair with Huma Abedin that started when they met at the basement child prostitute trafficking meetings under Comet Pizza?
Doug R
@CarolDuhart2: That RNC rhetoric saying we’re the minority is part of the buy in of the Bernie bros about the WWC voters. They think we need authoritarians to win when we have the demographics otherwise.
Bess
@Villago Delenda Est:
OK, should we go for a repeat in 2018, 2020, …?
Or might it be useful to figure out how to get the mid-30%s to look a bit deeper?
tobie
OT…have you folks been seeing ads for Gorsuch on TV, one featuring a Justice Department employee from the Obama era? I don’t recall ever seeing campaign ads for Supreme Court nominees. Some progressive organization is going to need to respond pronto.
Bess
@Corner Stone:
I can’t give you that solution all tied up in a ribbon with a big bow. I’m starting at the point of whether it makes sense to attempt to educate the mid-30%s.
hovercraft
@philadelphialawyer:
I’m just looking at the Gallup daily tracking poll. As far as I can tell they and Rassmussen are the only ones doing a daily tracking poll, so very limited data that should be taken with barrel of salt. And yes the presser was meant to stop the bleeding, both his poll numbers and all the negative press he is receiving. So while it may have made him and his supporters feel better, I don’t think it accomplished his goals, the coverage was even more negative, and the stories about his blunders and Flynn did not go away.
cain
@Corner Stone:
Not great for Joy either.. she was visibly angry.
aimai
@philadelphialawyer: Your post is part of a generic, woe is me attitude, towards Trump and the Republicans that is simply not useful. Trump’s voters will continue to support him in conflicts with the press for a while, but some will not. That’s obvious. He will continue to use strategies which worked for him during the campaign, but over time these strategies will be less and less effective. That is also obvious. Whether some subset of his voters were impressed, or are told they were impressed, by that little exchange is neither here nor there.
cmorenc
A key fact to keep in mind is that the pool of people who ended up voting for Trump is not of equal depth – don’t measure the prospects of “getting through” to Trump voters by those happily swimming in the deep, fetid end of that pool. As numerous and impervious to decent sensibilities as the latter are – there is a plentifully ample portion in the shallower end who are much more susceptible to disillusionment with Trump and reachable. This includes many who only stepped into and never got very far from the very edge of the shallow end, especially those who thought they were making the less bad between two of the most terrible choices in their lifetime. Concentrate on THAT group of Trump voters rather than thinking of Trump voters as this monolithic block of unreachably vile, crazy people, as big a mistake as the “least terrible” -motivated group inarguably made.
hovercraft
@Another Scott:
He will not quit, even if everyone turns against him, he would cling on till the bitter end, and unfortunately for the country he would make sure to take everyone else down with him, obviously the biggest casualty would be the GOP cowards who are ow wedded to him, but the rest of us would not escape unscathed. He will leave in a box or kicking and screaming.
cain
@stinger:
I remember an old South Park episode where some local bar was going to be taking over by Persians and they were going to redecorate it in gold and purple. That was a hilarious episode given the completely irreverence to just about everyone. It is one of the things I really admire about American humor, we are not afraid to poke fun at anything.
Another Scott
@tobie: Yeah, I’ve seen it. Apparently they’re claiming to spend $10M on the ads.
AboveTheLaw piece about her and the ad
Note the tweets at the bottom (images, so I can’t cut and paste).
My take is: It doesn’t matter how great a guy he is according to people who have clerked for him. The seat isn’t his to take. It’s Garland’s. Until that is rectified by a Democratic president, the SCOTUS should have 8 filled seats.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@Spanky:
Oh, I really like that one!
Uncle Ebeneezer
@hovercraft: I only wish Peter had ended with “Not as substantial as 2.9 Million votes.”
cain
@hovercraft:
If his personality holds true, he will continue to abandon those who alienate him and reward those who are loyal to him. Eventually, it’ll be like an Oprah show where he starts giving gifts out to the crowd. He will still lose even more as he starts going back on the ‘campaign trail’ while the world starts closing in on us. Right now things are still working, but in one Friedman unit, we are going to see some serious shit go down.
Omnes Omnibus
@cmorenc: Some of us might not be the best people to reach out to them. As least not right now. I am still bouncing between incredulity at their idiocy and anger at their fecklessness.
hovercraft
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
That would be much too shrill for a villager, his credentials would have been pulled by Spicey!!
hovercraft
@cain:
He had to give gifts to get them to attend his rally today !!
jhtrotter
@Corner Stone: Everyone knows that Vince committed suicide by shooting himself twice in the head, and suffocating himself in a rolled up carpet.
Chip Daniels
I have Trump supporters in my family.
Instead of falling into the high level “libruls v. conservatives” stuff, I just ask them if they support specific actions:
Do you really want to get rid of the pre-existing conditions clause?
Do you really want to get rid of Medicare?
Do you really want a trade war with China?
Do you really want to destroy Planned Parenthood?
These are all things where our position is popular, by a wide margin. And these things hit hard at the very working class people who voted for Trump.
I don’t go for the “listen to their economic anxiety” crap. I am close enough to these people to be able to speak bluntly and not have to patronize them like emotionally fragile tweens.
cain
@hovercraft:
My tax dollars better not have paid for that!
Lurking Canadian
@hovercraft: Republican Senators who just quietly do the bidding of McConnell and Trump are despicable people, but you can sort of respect them. They are politicians. There are things they want. Trump can give them those things. So they are on board.
Republican Senators like McCain, Rubio, Graham, Collins…who make all kinds of noises about opposing Trump and standing for principle and then do Trump’s bidding are so contemptible they should be banished from the society of humans and sent to live among jackals. Some reporter needs to make it his (more likely, her) life’s work to get an answer to “Nice speech, Senator McCain. When are you planning to do something about it?“
cain
@jhtrotter:
During Bowling Green massacre.
Baud
@cain:
Also remember that Trump is an urbanite. He wants the approval of people who dislike him, and doesn’t want to associate with the people who actually support him (except to put on a performance for them).
jhtrotter
2 things:
The cult aspect of the trumpresidency continues to fascinate me. Couple times this week, I’ve heard sane people conversing (baiting) with trumpeteers about the coming devastation of the environment and economy, and have heard them respond ‘…but that’s not trump, that’s republicans, trump is doing great!…’. This isolation from party and reality seems like a pattern a jones/koresh/applewhite presidency supporter might follow.
And I’ve talked to a few intelligent, moderately conservative friends (yeah, they exist) who are quietly voicing concern that if do trump is so willing to trample the first amendment to silence the threat from his many critics, what might he do to the second, for when he really follows through on his stupid ideas? The national guard rounding up brown people thing has appeared to rattle them some in that regard too. First he comes for the keyboards, then he comes for the guns, and then he comes for whatever he damn pleases.
They’re beginning to think that maybe having a psych eval might be more important for a president than having a birth certificate.
JPL
@hovercraft: The repubs will threaten him with impeachment after they destroy the environment and the safety net. His children will pull him aside and point out, that would destroy their business too. At that point, Trump will resign for health reasons.
Of course, he could nuke someone before that happens though.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Bob from Houston says, “Hi!” by the way.
SiubhanDuinne
@Lurking Canadian:
Noooo! We don’t want them here at BJ!
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Thanks.
chris
CNN piece on media hatred and why the numbers look so bad. The numbers are dragged down by the media that the shigibbon likes, ie. Breitbart and Alex Jones.
tl;dr
Also saw a WSJ headline (sub. req.) Saying that Kushner went to Time Warner to complain about CNN coverage. So maybe they’re doing something right?
Thru the Looking Glass...
@aimai:
This… right here…
To paraphrase Bill Shakespeare, Hell hath no fury like a scorned true believer…
ruemara
@Iowa Old Lady: yes.
aimai
@cain: Yes, this is very apt. Trump is a very simple creature really–a roomba of evil who has only certain obvious moves in his repertoire. There is humiliation and attack, there is praise. But because of who Trump is he can only manage to include his own followers in praise for so long. Mostly he will always deviate to praising just himself–its why he can’t keep to an abstract topic like “infrastructure” or “immigration” or anything else for long without returning to his narcissistic wound over losing the popular vote. This will always be true as long as there are enough incidents or people that he cares about who make him feel bad–protests, rejections from hollywood, embarrassments. These are all things that make him feel bad, and when he feels bad he needs to return focus and praise to himself. At those moments he doesn’t have the ability to attend to the emotional needs (selfish, fearful, racist, egotistical) of his voters. He may by luck or happenstance attack some group they also hate/fear (immigrants, muslims, the press) but slowly this shared hate will not be enough to keep them attentive. If he once turns on his own voters (“America! How stupid are we?” becomes “america: how stupid are you?”) then he will be on the skids for real because he has to constantly bribe his own voters with more and more attention. And in the long run Trump can’t give attention to anyone but himself.
Tripod
Turn that idiot off… was effective and to the point. I then got some weak tea bull about splitting time between FOX and CNN.
They KNOW they fucked up. Tell them the bosses are pissed.
aimai
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Yes, we should do this every chance we get. If I were to meet a trump voter I would attempt sympathy “wow! you wanted some good stuff for america but look at the bill of goods you were sold! You thought this poseur, this russian stooge, this tool of republican corporate interests was going to be a change agent! You didn’t realize how complicated government is or how many moving parts were involved in just running the biggest corporation in the world? Oh, how sad! Yes, could have happened to anyone if they believed republicans, russians, and the corporate oligarchy.”
cain
@Baud:
Good point, I’m pretty sure he has nothing in common with his supporters. He’ll be begging for approval from people like Mark Cuban, who to his credit continues to troll him. I swear his retorts to Mark have a painful strained quality to them.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Baud:
This too… the man’s a coward…
Trump is most definitely a bully… look at the way he treats women, his opponents… anyone he doesn’t like or is AFRAID OF…
And a bully is almost always a coward on the flip side… not just scared, but a coward…
It’s one of the few axiomatic rules of human behavior that is hardly ever not true…
All bullies can turn into cowards and all cowards, bullies, when the opportunity is there…
Cacti
@Baud:
I’ve thought that about him all along.
I’m convinced that one of the best things the Dem candidate can do in a 2020 debate with Trump is call him out on it.
The first time he tells them to shut up or something of the like, turn to him and say “Why don’t you come over here and make me shut up.”
Thru the Looking Glass...
@aimai:
100%… don’t attack them… it won’t work… they’re looking for that… that’s why they voted for him in the 1st place… a big middle finger to the rest of us… and don’t attack him… they’ll want to defend him… just point out calmly and sympathetically that he LIED to them… that he doesn’t care about them and the Republicans are just using him to hose them…
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Omnes Omnibus: I
Geez… hadn’t noticed…
Mike J
@stinger:
It’s the East room. That’s what it looks like.
Ford
Carter
Betty
I saw just the beginning of a McConnell press conference (that was all I could stand). What a sneering, smug, ignorant man. Shame on all the so-called independent thinking Repubs. He talked about the “futile efforts of the Democrats” to contest the various nominations. Futile as long as all of the Republicans have no soul, no heart, no honesty, no integrity. OK.
Corner Stone
@Another Scott: I think I understand what you’re getting at. To be clear, I think of the two observations that putting the work in on our own side/coalition/organization is by far the higher priority. Giving early money to decent candidates who are willing to put the work and effort in to run for office (any office), and then showing up. Show up at their rallies, show up at voter registration efforts and show up at the ballot box. Everybody can do something, most times. And 2016 was a shit year for me on a family basis but I still donated to a few people and orgs. It was what I could do, that and show up to early vote where I took my son along and we stopped to thank the Democratic poll workers stationed there.
As for the R voter/Trump voter/supporter. I say we let him do all the heavy lifting to crack away a few of the ones who voted the way they did for lulz or tribal or whatever. I don’t have a lot of time to invest in meeting with them or employing some subtle strategy. They will either get it or they won’t.
The final chunk of people who voted for Trump are asshole racists and I don’t wanna hear another god damned word about them, reaching out to them, understanding them, working on them or any other fucking thing. They are racists. Fuck them.
Aleta
WTF? WTF! Vol. 30
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-leaked-audio-clubs-guests-235161
(You can hear 4 min of the tape at the link.)
trollhattan
@Another Scott:
Safest assumption is he’s not going anywhere so the main task is hemming him to limit the damage. Plan for 2018.
Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones)
*sniff* something in my eye…
Twitter find from @dog_rates today This is Rhino. He arrived at a shelter with an elaborate doggo manual for his new family, written by someone who will always love him. 13/10 and the story
*sniff* ?
Aleta
@Aleta: Around 11:37 on the full tape is location the quote above. http://www.politico.com/video/2017/02/170216-trump-bedminsteraudio-full-062271
Thru the Looking Glass...
So if the Tangerine Nightmare keeps going to Florida for kicks every weekend and Melania keeps living at Trump Tower, what is this going to cost us, ya know, We, the People, after 4 years?
As I recall, Republicans screamed bloody murder any time Obama went anywhere and it cost THEM… so what’s all of this going to cost US?
debbie
How’s he doing, Texas cattle ranchers?
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/02/16/first-casualties-trumps-trade-wars-texas-cattle-ranchers
Up next, Iowa corn farmers.
Aleta
@Tenar Arha (same Tenar, more Nameless Ones): “make sure he is in a safe house,” where every night, he is told that “I love and miss him.”
Baud
@debbie: Every one of them voted for Trump. Screw em.
Chris T.
@Corner Stone: Australian, of course.
debbie
@Baud:
Just wait til they see the jacked-up prices at Walmart!
HeidiMom
@WereBear: Good for you, reading the serious stuff. Since I retired about three years ago, I’ve been trying to read serious fiction (Doctorow, Naipaul, Momaday, etc.) and was doing pretty well. Then, while phone banking for Hillary and against That Man, I decided I needed the mental reinforcement of a very wise woman, so reread all of Harry Potter. After 11/8/16 it’s been Lucas Davenport and Virgil Flowers all the way — they strive to know the world as it really is, they manage to laugh during the darkest times, and they never, ever give up.
P.S. Thanks so much for The Way of Cats! I contribute a tiny amount monthly, but it will never repay the knowledge you’ve given me that has made my cats’ lives so much better. (One likes to be “taken to her food” — I never would have understood that if not for you!)
SiubhanDuinne
@aimai:
Imma file that away for future use.
Another Scott
@Baud: Probably right.
I just got to thinking – it would be kind of interesting to find out how many of the GOP Senators voted for Trump in November. I assume 100%, but if any didn’t (voting for, say, McMullen or Johnson instead) it would be good to know, to drive Donnie even farther to distraction if nothing else.
Cheers,
Scott.
Spanky
@SiubhanDuinne: Seconded.
Aleta
WTF Vol. 30, photo 6.66
The T family stylist has made the grandkid look just like the English princelet George. https://mobile.twitter.com/RyanLizza/status/832943017019445248/photo/1
J R in WV
@WereBear:
Or he could just be a hard-hearted, greedy, mean, evil fuckwad? They are out there.
Ohio Mom
@Thru the Looking Glass…: I don’t remember where I saw it — I sure it is easily googable — Trump’s trips to Florida, Melania remaining in NYC, the comings and goings of his adult children, all equal in a month what the Obama family cost us in SS protection in a whole year.
trollhattan
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
As soon as Obama took office they promptly erased all evidence of the brush-cutter-in-chief, who vacated the WH bigly. Obama went to Hawaii, see, and that isn’t America.
Also, they tried to peg Obama’s golf habit as somehow un-American, which was a true head-scratcher.
PatrickG
@aimai:
“Roomba of evil” is officially my new favorite phrase. So good!
SiubhanDuinne
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
Nitpicky Pedantry Mode Alert:
The line isn’t Shakespeare. It’s from a William Congreve play, The Mourning Bride (1697). The quote as we know it is abbreviated from the original line: “Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.”
/NPMA off
Aunt Kathy
I quickly scanned thru’ the comments and didn’t see anybody reference this, but I may have missed it. The Newshour had a segment last night about the two worlds in which we live, and I think it says it all.
I think he solid 30% that he had most of the summer cannot be convinced, cannot be moved. They don’t read msm newspapers. The only thing they may see is a possible broadcast network news package that might appear in the middle of their local news. They are the solid core.
The gap between 30 and his eventual 46%? I don’t have a guess as to how much is squishy support, like “Well, he’s the Repub, so I’ll give him a chance…” I think that gap is persuadable, but the solid 30 isn’t.
But I have accepted that there is simply a segment of society that is downright delusional. And the PBS clip confirmed it for me.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/vegetarian-cafe-trump-cafe-texas-political-chasm/
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne: Neat!
But I thought it was Lincoln?
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Old Dan and Little Anne
So that Milo character was on Bill Maher last night. I had never seen him or heard him before. He reminded me of Macaulay Culkin in “Party Monster.” It’s a movie about a bunch of twenty something, rich, narcissistic, drug taking assholes that do nothing but take drugs and go to raves. Berkeley should have let Milo speak and simply booed him off campus. What a fucking douche.
J R in WV
@BudP:
I find Trump despicable and loathsome. But when we saw him on the gold course with the Japanese PM Abe the other day, wearing a polo shirt/golf suit, he didn’t look nearly as obese as he does in his terribly-cut, poorly fitting suits.
Not to say he looked the picture of sporting guy healthyness, but not way fat for a sedentary 70 y o businessman. Didn’t I see that he beat P M Abe?
SiubhanDuinne
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
@Ohio Mom:
WaPo had a feature article about it a couple of days ago.
Comrade Scrutinizer
That whole family is twisted.
J R in WV
@hovercraft:
I was wondering how you are so special to get bold, blue, giant text for your precious comments? Which comments I do love, let me say!
I love Leonard Pitts, he is such a good writer and thinker. And good with the close!
HELL NO!
Let me try something here:
Leonard Pitts II knows how to close out his argument: HELL NO!
ETA: We learn something every day here!
SiubhanDuinne
@Another Scott:
I make it a practice never to trust any lines attributed to Lincoln unless they originate on his verified (blue badge) Twitter account.
Teddys Person
@Comrade Scrutinizer: Yuck!! That needs to come with some kind of warning. Brain. Bleach. STAT.
NeenerNeener
@Comrade Scrutinizer: God, that penthouse is tacky.
SiubhanDuinne
@Comrade Scrutinizer:
Oh ICK! That’s every bit as creepy as those photos of pubescent Ivanka sitting on Daddy’s lap.
J R in WV
@Iowa Old Lady:
You know he will be trying to. There will probably be a little more oversight of a campaign fund than a tiny state foundation kept in the slimy dark tunnels under Manhattan. So maybe a trap lies there?
We can but hope!
OldDave
@J R in WV: Linkie no workie
Pitts: Hell No.
J R in WV
@Bess:
You ask them if they’ve seen a doctor about their inability to tell the difference between poorly written fiction and reality. Because that is all you can do to encourage a mentally disturbed person to seek medical help.
I guess asking where they picked up obvious falsehoods as sincere truths might begin a useful conversation. There’s never been a shred of truth about any of that glob of evil that would stick to a person in reality.
So: Just say so. Falsehoods dreamed up by one’s political opponents don’t become truth are aging for 20 years, either.
philadelphialawyer
@aimai: You said Trump was “combative” with the press in your first post. That is pretty much the opposite of “weak.” So, you actually agree with me.
For the rest of it (“generic woe is me attitude” blah, blah blah), you are still just burning straw.
Whatevs.
philadelphialawyer
@hovercraft: Your link shows a little spike for Trump, not the reverse. And the conference was more about re connecting with the base than actually stopping the negative media spin. Again, being combative with the media is part of his appeal to his base.
hovercraft
@Old Dan and Little Anne:
I didn’t watch the show, but I hear the overtime segment afterwards was something of a beat down. Larry Wilmore was in the house, and wasn’t having it.
ETA: the man is odious, trans and gay people have a psychiatric disorder, Larry and Malcom Nance rightly told him to go fuck himself.
Teddys Person
@Old Dan and Little Anne: I had never heard Milo the Douche-bag Nazi speak either but watched a clip of Real Time. What a contemptible little punk. I stand with Larry W. Milo can go fuck himself. And while I’m at it, so can Bill Maher.
J R in WV
@OldDave:
It wasn’t supposed to be a link, it was supposed to just be Bold Blue text. I learned how from Humlbolt’s mistaken broken link where the whole commentary by Pitts was blue. Well – I knew how, I just never thought of using a deliberately borked link to get bright blue text for emphasis.
I thought I made it clear in the comment, but not so much…ETA, no, pretty obviously using a borked link to get bright blue test.
hovercraft
@philadelphialawyer:
When I posted the link they had not yet added the numbers from yesterday. It doesn’t surprise me that republicans, or at least those who support him loved it. But his spike, (2%), doesn’t negate that 55% who hate what he is doing. Like I said before, his aim was to reconnect, and he did, but he turned off many, many more than he shored up. If on the other hand his disapprove numbers start to go down then he is winning. Anything above 42-44 approve, means that he is not getting hurt by his antics, he started at around 45 so that’s the number to watch. We can debate a point or two either way, but the important things are the trend and benchmarks.
Tehanu
@Hunter Gathers:
You left out “crybaby snowflakes.”
@CarolDuhart2:
Your whole post, because I totally agree with every word! Not that I don’t throw around insults right and left, because it makes me feel a bit better about meeting people who have no problem being on the same side as the KKK and the American Nazi Party.
@Teddys Person:
Hear, hear!
Frankensteinbeck
@Tehanu:
I started watching that clip, and Maher was smiling and nodding and going ‘That’s totally reasonable.’ to deeply unreasonable bigoted, spitefu,l fictitious bullshit. Wilmore wasn’t enough to overcome my churning disgust and I had to turn it off.
Tehanu
@philadelphialawyer:
“Combative” is not the opposite of “weak.” It’s the opposite of “peace-loving” and “diplomatic.” If you really believe that loving peace and being polite are weaknesses, why aren’t you out there cheering Dump on? Oh wait…
WereBear
And thank you for your support!
Now I’m smiling all day about you carrying your cat to her food. They are such lovable little clowns.
Teddys Person
@Frankensteinbeck: Milo and Bill are two peas in a pod. Pretending to discuss/debate serious issues or take a particular political stance as a form of pure entertainment to make some cash. I repeat, they can both fuck themselves.
Monala
As good as the linked article is, there is an even better comment underneath. I asked the commenter for permission to share it, and if granted, will post it here in full. But to sum it up: A huge part of Trump’s appeal is his image as a successful, “self-made” business man (and a lot of his followers believe he built his business from nothing). His business also involved building something tangible, not just pushing paper, which a lot of working class people respect.
A lot of Trump’s own self-image involves inflating his business success. If you can tear that down, that may be key to making him look weak to his followers.
different-church-lady
#FAKE PRESIDENT
Juju
I put five bucks in the tip jar.
Death Panel Truck
Now I can read Wonkette without having to force-quit my browser in frustration after five minutes. I’d be happy to throw them some coin now and again.
Paul in KY
@Bess: Alot of people are jealous of Hillary, IMO.
sunny raines
same rational nonsense the post criticizes others for.
Make news that is counter to trump’s view of things not believed is exactly why trump keeps spewing about fake news – let’s trump define to his imbecilic, easily manipulated supporters what is real and what is not.