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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Lemonade from the Media Squeeze

Lemonade from the Media Squeeze

by Betty Cracker|  February 20, 20174:40 pm| 58 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Republican Stupidity, General Stupidity, Our Failed Media Experiment

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Never had much respect for Don Lemon, who often seems daft and clueless, but in this clip, he models the correct way to push back on the Trump regime’s “fake news” meme:

Lemon interrupts the GOP mouthpiece who invokes “fake news,” defines what “fake news” actually is (i.e., it is not any news the Trump people find inconvenient) and gives the GOP mouthpiece an opportunity to make his point without screeching about “fake news.” And when the flack says “fake news” again, Lemon cuts him off.

That’s what it’s going to take. The Trump people — including Trump himself — lie and dissemble without shame. Their purpose is to destroy the distinction between fact and fiction. It’s a technique common to conmen and authoritarians.

If the media want to avoid having their panels, interviews, press conferences, etc., flooded with so many lies that the whole process breaks down, as in a denial of service attack, they’ll have to be firm like Lemon was above.

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Reader Interactions

58Comments

  1. 1.

    jonas

    February 20, 2017 at 4:44 pm

    Trump and his people are attempting to essentially gaslight the country with this “fake news” bullshit. It’s obviously worked with his base of 27%-ers who apparently are all now convinced they’re all about to be employed as highly-paid coal miners and not a minute too soon given what’s been going on in Sweden, but it’s vital that it doesn’t get to the rest of the country.

  2. 2.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 20, 2017 at 4:45 pm

    Greetings from Iceland, where a heavy metal and punk musician is Minister of Health and people talk about Donald Trump (only slightly) less! Here are some pictures I took!

  3. 3.

    Served

    February 20, 2017 at 4:47 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Gorgeous! I was there last fall and just now finally got through editing all my photos. I want to make a Spring or Summer trip ASAP, but I may not be allowed back after assuring everyone I talked to that America would certainly NEVER elect someone like Trump.

  4. 4.

    MrSnrub

    February 20, 2017 at 4:47 pm

    Great pics! I’d love to go to Iceland, but only in the summer months.

    I don’t watch those shows, so I’ve never seen him in action before, but Lemon did a great job here. More of the same, please.

  5. 5.

    XTPD

    February 20, 2017 at 4:50 pm

    I actually used to go Orlando’s Contemporary Resort for my latter three years as part of my school district’s Academic Team, and while my respect for CNN started falling off around the turn of the decade, I still ended it was pretty the only news channel I was sure wouldn’t piss off my teammates one way or the other. Incidentally, it was while staying at a different Disney World resort (senior year, this time to help my sister’s history team) when I saw Don Lemon wordshart on if MH370 got sucked in by a black hole, which immediately struck me as the stupidest fucking thing I’ve ever heard from a news anchor. Haven’t watched its news coverage since.

    Greg Howard is actually of the opinion that Don Lemon is actually not really supposed to be reporter, so much as a trash TV host/ bullet sponge for Jeff Zucker’s fuckery.

  6. 6.

    Felonius Monk

    February 20, 2017 at 4:50 pm

    I think Lemon made a big mistake. The GOP mouthpiece won. By ending the entire conversation and signing off, Lemon gave him exactly what the guy wanted. Lemon should have cut the guy’s mic and finished the panel discussion without him. No kudos for Don Lemon from this quarter — he fucked up.

  7. 7.

    Wag

    February 20, 2017 at 4:52 pm

    Excelled photos! I’m looking forward to our visit in August.

  8. 8.

    bystander

    February 20, 2017 at 4:54 pm

    Just read that as a result of Brexit, the Baroque Orchestra of the European Union will have to leave England for Belgium. Well played, dummies.

  9. 9.

    geg6

    February 20, 2017 at 4:54 pm

    I really think Don Lemon is an idiot most of the time, but I saw this clip over the weekend and was practically standing and cheering in my sunroom over it. First time I’ve even sat through anything with Don Lemon and felt happy when it was over.

    Good for him. CNN seems to have found it’s journalistic integrity again. CBS, too. Credit where credit is due. NBC is horrifically bad. And I refuse to watch ABC because of Jonathan Karl, so I have no idea what they are doing. But I’m guessing they suck more than NBC, just because they pretty much always have.

  10. 10.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 20, 2017 at 4:55 pm

    @MrSnrub: It’s not that cold right now, currently 32F outside at 10pm. Certainly not something you’d want to get stuck outside in, but not the end of the world either. And there’s about five solid hours of sun, plus a chance to see the aurora.

    @Served: I spent a July in Reykjavik ten years ago, it was lovely if a bit on the quiet side.

  11. 11.

    Baud

    February 20, 2017 at 4:56 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Beautiful. On the bucket list.

  12. 12.

    raven

    February 20, 2017 at 4:59 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Wow!

  13. 13.

    eclare

    February 20, 2017 at 5:00 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: @<a href="#comment-6257233" Beautiful pictures! Thank you for posting them.

  14. 14.

    A Ghost to Most

    February 20, 2017 at 5:00 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Good luck with the Aurora.

  15. 15.

    Brachiator

    February 20, 2017 at 5:01 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Greetings from Iceland, where a heavy metal and punk musician is Minister of Health and people talk about Donald Trump (only slightly) less! Here are some pictures I took!

    Cool (or rather icy cool) photos. What’s the weather like?

    Do you have to go out very far from a town or city to get to the places you have photographed?

  16. 16.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    February 20, 2017 at 5:01 pm

    @Felonius Monk: When you explain it that way, I see your point and agree w/ you… and that’s kinda contingent on Lemon being able to do that at that exact moment… and I think Betty’s greater point still stands…

    If we’re gonna beat these farkers back, we’re gonna need to play harder… they’ve pretty much come right out in the open at this point and have made it clear… they want to wipe us out if they can… they want total and complete control of the country, period…

  17. 17.

    A Ghost to Most

    February 20, 2017 at 5:02 pm

    Maybe Don Lemon could get a gong to use in these situations.

  18. 18.

    bystander

    February 20, 2017 at 5:02 pm

    @Felonius Monk: Joy Reid had a similar run in this past weekend with JD Hayworth. He kept acting as if the name of the show were AMJD. She finally cut him off as he tried to motormouth over her, and I didn’t blame her. She is entitled to her dignity. Here I would think it was preferable to let the trumputinite lie and then to counter with the truth. Requires being armed with facts, tho, which may be where we lose Don.

  19. 19.

    Kay

    February 20, 2017 at 5:03 pm

    Yeah, sorry but three of them on Trump’s couch today is an awful photo- the general, Trump and the other guy.

    It literally looks like a banana republic with the golden couch and the giant, tacky chandelier.

    Whose idea was that? Is this the Trump Presidency or some kind of wacko dictatorship?

  20. 20.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    February 20, 2017 at 5:03 pm

    @Felonius Monk

    : I think Lemon made a big mistake. The GOP mouthpiece won. By ending the entire conversation and signing off, Lemon gave him exactly what the guy wanted. Lemon should have cut the guy’s mic and finished the panel discussion without him. No kudos for Don Lemon from this quarter — he fucked up.

    Yes, you punish the troll, not everyone. The MSM has to a lot learn here.

  21. 21.

    tobie

    February 20, 2017 at 5:03 pm

    @Felonius Monk: I don’t see how you can watch that clip and think the GOP supporter won the exchange. He came off as someone who was incapable of addressing the substance of the issue–the cost of protecting the President and his family–without resorting to name calling.

    @geg6: I haven’t watched network news in donkey’s years so I don’t know much about how NBC, CBS, and ABC report the news, but the little exposure I’ve had to Jonathan Karl makes me wonder how he rose up the ranks. He’s unmistakably partisan.

  22. 22.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    February 20, 2017 at 5:05 pm

    Is this the Trump Presidency or some kind of wacko dictatorship?

    Trick question, right?

  23. 23.

    JPL

    February 20, 2017 at 5:07 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Gorgeous!

  24. 24.

    germy

    February 20, 2017 at 5:08 pm

    @tobie:

    the little exposure I’ve had to Jonathan Karl makes me wonder how he rose up the ranks. He’s unmistakably partisan.

    Definitely. He started as a college republican (we’ve all seen the type) and Charlie Pierce refers to him as a republican mole.

  25. 25.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 20, 2017 at 5:09 pm

    OT since I am tired of discussing the fail parade that is the media and current state of politics.
    Best video yet, out of the upcoming movie Rangoon.

    Alvida ( good bye), alvida to nahin. The cinematography is breathtaking, especially the swaying Komsing suspension bridge over the raging river.

  26. 26.

    Major Major Major Major

    February 20, 2017 at 5:10 pm

    @Brachiator: Those are mostly around here, so… yes.

    It’s 32F right now, today was perfect with a wool hat, long johns, padded flannel, wool coat, jeans, boots, gloves. Alternating between sunny & warm and freezing sleet.

  27. 27.

    Patricia Kayden

    February 20, 2017 at 5:13 pm

    @geg6:

    was practically standing and cheering in my sunroom over it

    You darn liberal elites with your sunrooms and what nots!! (smile)

    But seriously, of course, CNN has finally found its footing to critique Trump. It’s too late to matter though. This is how CNN and other mainstream media outlets should have acted during the campaign cycle BEFORE the election.

  28. 28.

    Patricia Kayden

    February 20, 2017 at 5:15 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: Or cut the mic of liars.

  29. 29.

    Kay

    February 20, 2017 at 5:16 pm

    The golfing controversy is a problem of Trump’s own making too. Had he not shot his mouth off about Obama golfing no one would be talking about it.

    Donald Trump knew Donald Trump golfs a lot. He gave Obama shit about it anyway, because Trump is a douchebag in all things large and small.

    And, having listened to the people who are now Trump supporters bitch about Obama for 8 years, it drove them crazy that the Obama’s lived in the White House and used Air Force One. And the REASON it drove them crazy is because the Obama’s are black. I never heard one word about the wastefulness of Air Force One until the black President used the plane. Then it was an outrage. All of a sudden. Same with the holy sanctity of the White House.

  30. 30.

    Mike J

    February 20, 2017 at 5:19 pm

    @Kay:

    Same with the holy sanctity of the White House.

    That most of the Trump family think is beneath them to live in.

  31. 31.

    MomSense

    February 20, 2017 at 5:19 pm

    @germy:

    He’s an alumnus of the Collegiate Network.

  32. 32.

    MattF

    February 20, 2017 at 5:20 pm

    I think it was a Troll/Lemon tie. Lemon made his point and did it well, but the segment ran out of time, and the troll got the last word. One of the troll strategies is to just fill the airwaves with noise and nonsense– it didn’t quite work this time, but came close.

  33. 33.

    Kay

    February 20, 2017 at 5:24 pm

    @Mike J:

    Here’s the phony king in his fake castle today.

    So he’ll be conducting his entire Presidency out of his country club, I guess.

  34. 34.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 20, 2017 at 5:24 pm

    @MomSense: Check out my link at #25, I think you will like it. How is your friend?

  35. 35.

    germy

    February 20, 2017 at 5:25 pm

    @MomSense:

    The Collegiate Network (CN) is a non-profit tax-exempt 501(c)(3) organization that provides financial and technical assistance to student editors and writers of roughly 100 independent, conservative and libertarian publications at leading colleges and universities around the United States.

    Tax them.

  36. 36.

    A Ghost to Most

    February 20, 2017 at 5:27 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Watching Joy cut off JD was enjoyable (agh!).

    Maybe a big red button on her desk? I hate it when they try to hog all the airtime with bullshit.

  37. 37.

    Yarrow

    February 20, 2017 at 5:27 pm

    @MomSense: How’s your mom doing?

  38. 38.

    Iowa Old Lady

    February 20, 2017 at 5:28 pm

    This “last night in Sweden” stuff is the kind of thing that makes my neighbors hesitate, assuming they hear about it. It’s not a simple lie, like “I did not have sex with that woman.” That they understand (and scorn). It verges over into craziness and that makes them hesitate.

  39. 39.

    Debbie1

    February 20, 2017 at 5:29 pm

    Off topic, but relevant: Ed Schultz (formerly of MSNBC but now hosts a program at Russia Today) will be speaking at CPAC. Yeah, CPAC.

  40. 40.

    MomSense

    February 20, 2017 at 5:29 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    She loved that last video on the train. She’s ok. They found more cancer (pelvis) so I don’t think they are planning to do surgery anymore. We’ll know more after her appointment this week.

  41. 41.

    schrodingers_cat

    February 20, 2017 at 5:29 pm

    @Kay: Its being conducted from Kremlin, this is just a sideshow for rubes.

    ETA: May be we can have a durbar for Putin like they had for good old Vicky, the Queen Empress of India.

  42. 42.

    MomSense

    February 20, 2017 at 5:30 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Seems to be ok. Very sleepy. Something changed.

  43. 43.

    Joyce H

    February 20, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    I want to see the media start discussing why Trump keeps picking retired generals for National Security posts. National Security is really important stuff – so why does he keep choosing guys who know less about ISIS than he does?

  44. 44.

    Dave

    February 20, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    @MattF: Context improves it a bit for Lemon he cut the segment short didn’t run out of time. Agreed should have cut the spokesperson and continued but think Lemon did come out the better in the exchange.

  45. 45.

    MattF

    February 20, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Yes, Trump’s ‘dishonesty’ is alarming. Scare quotes because one gets the bad feeling that it’s not ‘real’ dishonesty, but something… else…

  46. 46.

    Missouri Buckeye

    February 20, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    In skeptic/rationalist circles, we call it the “Gish Gallop”, named after the creationist debater who would use his debate time to spit out a lengthy stream of lies, knowing that his opponent would not have enough time to debunk every point Gish would make.

    Also known as “proof by verbosity” and now the Trump Tirade.

  47. 47.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    February 20, 2017 at 5:34 pm

    @tobie:

    @Felonius Monk: I don’t see how you can watch that clip and think the GOP supporter won the exchange. He came off as someone who was incapable of addressing the substance of the issue–the cost of protecting the President and his family–without resorting to name calling.

    He wasn’t trying to win the argument, he was there to shut down the discussion and to keep the Base isolated from other opinions.

    Think a medieval Catholic Inquisitor talking to heretics. All the Inquisitor cares about is associating the heretics position with EVIL in the minds of the faithful.

  48. 48.

    Yarrow

    February 20, 2017 at 5:35 pm

    @MomSense: I’m so sorry. I assume she was checked for a TIA? I know they can treat stroke really effectively if they catch it early but not sure how it works as time passes. Can you get her an appointment with a neurologist? Also make sure to get her in with her GP as soon as you can. If they know or guess she has had a TIA, therapy can work really well if started soon, so that might be something to consider. Wishing you the best. So glad you mixed up the weekends and came home!

  49. 49.

    Baud

    February 20, 2017 at 5:37 pm

    @MomSense: Fingers crossed.

  50. 50.

    El Caganer

    February 20, 2017 at 5:46 pm

    @Kay: All of them, Katie.

  51. 51.

    laura

    February 20, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    @Served: far out M4! Bring back some sugarcubes vinyl….
    Are you driving the ring road?

  52. 52.

    amygdala

    February 20, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Great pictures! One of the best meals I have ever had, in a this-totally-hits-the-spot kind of way was lobster soup in a little fish shanty place by the Reykjavik Harbor on a blustery late spring day. I didn’t try the fermented shark or puffin.

  53. 53.

    ? Martin

    February 20, 2017 at 6:05 pm

    The northern California rain/flooding problem in one image.

    This is the ‘atmospheric river’ flowing into northern California. What the image shows:

    1) Think of California generally as having two mountain ranges – the coastal ranges which goes up along the coast, and is of varying height, but generally pretty low (think Appalachians) and the inland ranges (Sierra Nevada, etc.) that go up along the eastern/central side of the state. The inland range is tall – up to 14,000 feet. Think Rocky Mountains. Between these is the Central Valley which extends about 450 miles – pretty far south to a bit below Bakersfield.
    2) There’s a notable gap in the coastal range where San Francisco is and feeds into a low-lying area (the Sacramento San-Juaquin River Delta). Parts of this region which extends inland almost 100 miles are below sea level and have an extensive series of deltas. It’s like a small version of Louisiana but is inhabited more like the Netherlands. This is pretty much all agriculture and fisheries.
    3) The worst part of the storm system comes in over the south bay – San Francisco to Monterey, centered roughly over San Jose. Low coastal range here. Storms into California are low – they come off the cool Pacific (currents here come down from Alaska, unlike the East coast where they move up from the Gulf) and don’t usually have a ton of height. They roll over the coastal range and into the central valley.
    4) Where you see the ‘T’ shape form, that’s the low storm that has cleared the coastal ranges (or gone between them near SF) hitting the tall Sierra Nevadas, and not able to get over it. The weather then spreads out north and south. Some will go over, but the heavy rain clouds can’t – they need to drop a lot of their moisture before they can lift over, so they pile up against the mountains and dump water until they’re dryer and more buoyant. You can see a bit of that in the green band extending to the south before the coast – some of the clouds can’t make it over even the coastal range and they push southward a bit until they dry out and can get over. On the top of the ‘T’ you see blue where the clouds push up high enough to turn to snow. Cold air can’t hold as much moisture as warm air, so as the clouds push upward, they drop more and more moisture.
    5) The Central Valley exists as an agricultural region because of this dynamic. Water is dumped on both the leading and trailing ranges, washing downward and carrying sediment with it. The valley collects all of that slowly over time leaving a nice relatively flat, rich farmland. The water dives below this region and forms an aquifer below it (which we are depleting too rapidly). That aquifer actually helps to hold the ground up above it. Places where we’ve depleted the aquifer too much have subsided – up to 30′ in places. We collect water in dozens of reservoirs in that region and move it downhill to the California Aqueduct which distributes it through the central valley until it’s pumped over the mountains north of Los Angeles and into SoCal for LA drinking water. The place would look more like a lake if it didn’t stretch roughly from New York to Cleveland. The system of dams in the north is a water/power ladder. Lots of reservoirs with power plants lead into other reservoirs with power plants into yet other reservoirs with power plants.

    There’s only one natural outflow for all of that water, and that’s through the Delta. Everything else is man-made – dams, canals, aqueducts, pumps, and so on. That man-made system was pretty much at or above it’s limit before that storm even hit. Enough concentrated water in that part of the state threatens to completely overwhelm the entire man-made water system everywhere. One challenge of the delta is that you have sea water on the west and freshwater on the east. So long as enough water is flowing in, the estuary – the part where salt/fresh water mix is more to the west, closer toward San Francisco. During drought, it encroaches on the freshwater fisheries and farmland where it threatens farmers, moving closer to Sacramento. Much of the water battle in California is really wrapped up in controlling that line, and how much water can be rediverted south for other uses. But during floods, it can be equally bad because the levee/canal system manages all of this. If the levees fail, then fresh/salt water gets mixed together and salt water can work its way far inland when uncontrolled.

    A similar set of conditions in 1861 flooded most of the valley. It was bad enough to force California into bankruptcy as ¼ of the economy was destroyed. An inland lake 300 miles long and 20 miles wide formed – roughly the size of Connecticut in acreage. Nearly a million cattle drowned, and around 1% of the state population died due to the floods. We have a lot more control over things now than we did then, so presumably we would need to go quite a bit past this point to see anything on that scale, but where there were maybe 200,000 people living in valley back then, there’s 6.5 million now, and the whole country depends on that region for food. We grow half the nations fruit and vegetables.

  54. 54.

    hovercraft

    February 20, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Nice pictures, I’m jealous ;-)

  55. 55.

    MomSense

    February 20, 2017 at 7:07 pm

    @Baud: @Yarrow:

    Thanks. They did check for a TIA and did all the neuro tests. Tomorrow we have a follow up. I’m actually going to ask her GP about a possible UTI. For now she is sleeping a lot with the pup curled up next to her.

  56. 56.

    daverave

    February 20, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @? Martin:

    That’s a very good write-up, Martin.
    Dave

  57. 57.

    J R in WV

    February 20, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Hey, Major^4, glad you’re having a good time in a civilized country!

    Have you seen the midnight lights in the sky yet? Try to get some photos of the Aurora Borealis late some night! The photos and videos are awesome. Some time back, in the late 1970s, working to rehab the old farm house we lived in when we first bought this place, I was up on the hill top unloading scrap from the old house into a gully, to be buried later on.

    And later in the evening, we saw strange lights in the northern sky, down low on the horizon, faint, wavering, but different colors.

  58. 58.

    Arclite

    February 21, 2017 at 1:37 am

    OH SNAP.

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