This.
The curve Trump gets graded on: He's getting a ton of credit for delivering a speech without going off the rails.
— Reid J. Epstein (@reidepstein) March 1, 2017
And this.
I'm just reading the gushing coverage and understanding better how Trump got to be president. My story's posting soon. It's different.
— Michael Grunwald (@MikeGrunwald) March 1, 2017
Baud
This should be a surprise to no one. He represent whiteness. Even people who don’t like his policies kind of want him to succeed.
amk
And the much touted fucking pivot is here. I have only sympathy for the dems, who are forced to fight both hands tied.
Baud
@amk: Yep.
EBT
With all due respect, saying the ghost of a recently dead SEAL you killed is looking down and smiling at your applause is kinda really off the goddamn rails.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I think we yet again have over thought Trump and are projecting our own thinking on to him. Trump isn’t some master manipulator or even a normal competent adult, he’s just some perpetual man-child of a spoiled rich kid. He gets the right rewards he behaves, he doesn’t he throws a tantrum. I think last night is his staff and the GOP finally figuring how to control Trump – lavish praise, isolation from anything negative, so he behaved.
EBT
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Sure he didn’t shit on the train during Aunt Milly’s wedding this time, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t going to start masturbating in class again today.
low-tech cyclist
Wow, he didn’t foam at the mouth once! How Presidential!!
Sheesh. He can (and did) deliver a steaming pile of crap, and as long as he does so in a measured tone of voice, the press will say it’s filet mignon.
The soft bigotry of low expectations continues to be the standard for Republican Presidents.
ETA: I will look forward to Grunwald’s take on it, though. He’s a genuinely good reporter.
JMG
Travel ban will be issued soon. Protests and legal challenges will begin again. How that turns out I don’t know, as I’m no lawyer, but I do know it will drive this speech out of the pundit universe completely. Their attention spans are as short as Trump’s own.
Betty Cracker
Van Jones on the exploitation of the SEAL’s widow: “One of the most extraordinary moments you have ever seen in American politics, period.” Nope. This was, though. If Jones wants to set the bar so low it requires a tunnel to get under it, that’s his business. To echo Kay, I’m not lowering my standards.
rikyrah
@Baud:
TELL THAT TRUTH!!!!
Shalimar
Media may have liked it because he wasn’t insane, and all the Republicans clapped on cue. It doesn’t seem like non-insane is going to be a big draw with the base that didn’t even bother attending those tiny rallies 2 days ago.
Kropadope
@EBT:
So is blowing immigrant crime way out of proportion, but he read a prepared speech written by someone with a functioning understanding of the English language (wish I could say the same for their grasp of history v the current state of affairs) and mostly kept to the text. Baby steps, baby steps.
Tripod
@Betty Cracker:
The Alan Combs memorial sincure is available at FOX.
Best Vichy progressive gig EVER.
Bob2
What’s this I hear about a President reading off a teleprompter?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@JMG:
Worth keeping in mind Pundits are entertainers, just like Trump, so of course they loved the correct tonal quality of Trump’s speach.
debit
@Shalimar:
I imagine they were instructed to do so, because otherwise President Poopy Pants would throw a tantrum.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: More than that he represents mediocrity, like the Punditubbies on TV. Who mostly got where they are not because of their talents or smarts but because they either had the right parents or they look the part. Kinda like you know who. T TV punditocracy sees themselves in him.
EBT
Gonna get to try Flying While Trans today. My understanding is the lack of genital pyrotechnics last night is causing them to take the day off from violating civil rights to gloat and give the old man handies, so Travel Ban II comes out tomorrow instead.
Tripod
COMCAST\Universal\NBC wants to dump net neutrality, so they are carrying water for him at MSNBC and CNBC.
FOX is the voice of the GOP establishment – they’d like him gone, but first TAX CUTS!
dr. bloor
@Betty Cracker: I agree, but random scanning through Twitter last night suggests that Jones’s take re the Owens moment is clearly in the majority amongst our fellow countrymen and countrywomen. Never, ever forget that we are ultimately a nation of gullible idiots.
Tripod
@debit:
I listened. Low energy speech, lower energy audience.
Nobody wanted to be there.
Kropadope
@dr. bloor:
The real question is “Can one arguably laudable moment in one speech erase months of dumbass nonsense?”
Be ready to not like the answer.
Kay
But at what point do we say that our elites are low quality? Who is setting this low bar? Our “elites”, right? People in power in one field or another?
Is Trump a new bad thing or just a living, breathing example of a decline that was already well underway? I lean ‘already underway” because the collapse was so rapid.
seejanerun
He loves applause. He got a standing ovation for a dead SEAL, so he will give us more dead SEALs.
EBT
@Kropadope: Carlin was right, our politicians are a reflection of ourselves. A SIGNIFICANT minority if not a plurality of the voting public is at least as empty headed and easily distracted as deadbeat donnie. He isn’t some special outlier, he is the mean.
Thoroughly Pizzled
I don’t see the point in working hard and bettering yourself. When the bar is this low for an unqualified bigot who never had to work, how can we say that the American Dream lives?
tBone
From a Boston Globe article:
How long have they been waiting to use the bolded line? It’s like they’ve been having Tantric sex with Trump since November, and last night he finally brought them to completion. Maybe he was right: the media really is the enemy of the American people.
liberal
“No shit. Chris Cillizza and cable news pundits are the dumbest fucking people on the planet.”
sdhays
@Kay: Already underway, for sure.
liberal
@tBone: They are so, so, so fucking stupid. Always have been, and, sadly, always will be.
Apart from the fact that the speech wasn’t actually that “moderate,” most people learn the adage “actions speak louder than words” at some point, probably early adulthood at the latest.
These people are drooling morans.
rikyrah
Contradicting his own team, Trump embraces ‘voodoo economics’
02/28/17 02:19 PM—UPDATED 02/28/17 03:11 PM
By Steve Benen
Donald Trump’s budget director, Mick Mulvaney, briefed reporters yesterday on the White House’s new proposed budget, which as you’ve probably heard, seeks significant new spending on the military. Mulvaney said the $54 billion increase to existing defense spending is “one of the largest increases in history,” and it will be offset by cutting investments in everything else.
“It’s the largest proposed reduction [to non-defense spending] since the early years of the Reagan administration,” Mulvaney added.
And while the core idea will be the basis for a spirited debate, it’s worth pausing to note that the president this morning painted a very different picture of the administration’s budget plans. Reuters reported:
artem1s
so the idjits in the MSM are still wishing for style while ignoring the substance. Wake up morans, yes, we hate this messenger but we hate the policies more than the messenger. Always have. How long til the GOP asswipes figure out that it’s still not gonna be safe to go back to their districts? That standing and applauding on cue isn’t going to fix their health care policy problem?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
Like you, I got no sanguinity – he represents and is the living embodiment of the deep strain of ignorance, greed, entitlement and bias of the white American plurality.
Patricia Kayden
@amk: My sympathy for the Democrats is dwindling rapidly. Why did they attend the SOTU which only served to normalize the Bigot-in-Chief? Why sit through lies?
I’m beginning to feel that Trump will win easily in 2020 given how the mainstream media fawns over him and hasn’t pivoted towards acting like journalists.
For Van Jones to say that Trump became President last night because of one dang speech is beyond astonishing and frightening. Trump’s SOTU doesn’t diminish all the damage that his policies are already doing to this country, i.e., Muslim ban and crackdown on immigrants. Nor does it diminish Trump’s ties to Russia, his squishy/unethical business dealings since taking office, etc.
HUGE SIGH.
CaseyL
Seriously? He’s getting praise from all corners, and the MSM has re-assumed its pro-GOP prostration?
I’m with Kay. The rot has just broken to the surface, but was there all along. It goes wide and it goes deep.
Patricia Kayden
@tBone: So one speech erases all the nonsense that Trump has done before and after his inauguration? Good to know for all the Brown/Black immigrants and Muslims getting caught up in his policies. Putin must be so pleased with how easily manipulated our “liberal” media has proven to be.
Anya
@Betty Cracker: This makes me think Van Jones values theatrics over substance. It was a crass moment.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@rikyrah:
It’s been abundantly clear that his goal is to inflate a bubble.
tBone
@liberal:
Well, he only proposed an uber-creepy immigration crime register, not a full-on Muslim register. Moderation!
EBT
One way to not get blamed for more failed military raids is to just take yourself out of the process entirely!
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/01/generals-may-launch-new-isis-raids-without-trump-s-ok.html?via=desktop&source=twitter
liberal
@Patricia Kayden:
The most important factor in all of this is the economy. Right now the prick is coasting on the long economic expansion we’ve been having since the Big Crash. It’s one of the longer ones, and they never go on forever.
Plus, if he bombs Iran, I assume the Iranians will mine the Gulf. Hello high pump prices!
Tripod
Jesus – it was one fucking speech. Maybe wait for the ratings before jumping.
Anya
@CaseyL: it’s like clapping when toddlers learn how to walk. I mean, they’ve done something unremarkable but we still cheer like they’ve accomplished something so unexpected.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@CaseyL:
A friend of mine is retired military and is now working for a DOD contractor in Afghanistan. He has this to say in private and gave permission to share without identifier:
realbtl
OT since I always seem to be late.
@Quinerly- There is a great back road from Kodachrome Basin SP near Bryce to about 25 mi east of Kanab. When I rode it on my motorcycle 20 years ago there were a couple of places with deep sand and 1 easy creek crossing just outside of K Basin. Check out Grosvenor Arch on this road.
negative 1
@tBone: Ultimately the media has no interest in upsetting the natural order of things, honestly. Most of them are dishwater republicans. They attacked Trump when they were criticized for letting this happen, now they can say ‘yay I’ve done my job’ and go back to praising the normal republican agenda.
Frank Wilhoit
@realbtl: There is a state park named after a[n obsolete] commercial product? What is the back story there? I can sort of guess, but the real story must be more interesting (i.e. worse)…?
EBT
@liberal: But hey, we can get low quality russian crude to refine at a high price!
StringOnAStick
I had been feeling strong and hopeful that all the activism we’re seeing and participating in was changing the situation and pointing out how not normal this presidency is, and now the media can’t fawn over him enough for last night’s speech. Today I’m depressed and sick to my stomach. I guess it really does have to get a whole lot worse for people to open their eyes, and that scares me. I’m not giving up on fighting back, I just realized iit is going to be harder than I thought.
schrodingers_cat
People get a grip, it was one fucking speech. Ready to throw in the towel so easily? Why laugh at T voters, they are not the only ones that scare easily it seems.
ETA: I see that @Tripod got there first.
EBT
@Frank Wilhoit: The National Geographic Society took some really baller pictures with some fancy new fangled Kodachrome film in the 1940s and the photos were so good they nicknamed the area Kodachrome Flats, and the name stuck.
CaseyL
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I was going to say, but most voters didn’t vote for Trump; but then realized that wasn’t to the point. The point is that, faced with an actual corrupt oligarch with fascist leanings, too many voters still decided it was more important to use their vote as an exercise in self-validation and virtue signalling by either not voting or going third party.
Your friend didn’t mention the utter stupidity that exemplifies, but it’s a big part of the problem and only reinforces his main thesis.
Betty Cracker
Now Trump’s speech is getting credit for the Dow crossing the 21000 mark. But hey, comrades, no panic or despair, okay? Trump is a mentally unstable demagogue surrounded by craven opportunists and advised by crackpots and grifters. He’ll step on his own dick before the week’s out. The press is terrible, but we knew that.
schrodingers_cat
@CaseyL: Smug stupid is not just for RWNJ.
tobie
@liberal: Actually what he’s coasting on is the fact that the recovery took off this summer and it’s robust. Third quarter GDP growth in 2016 was 3.5%. That is tremendous for a developed economy. What would kill it is if Trump started a trade war or a military war. There’s no guarantee he won’t do either. For right now, I’m stunned at how he draped himself in the heroism of a SEAL who died because of his hasty decision to launch the raid. Does no pundit see the perversity here: making a botched raid the symbol of your patriotism and leadership?
schrodingers_cat
@Betty Cracker: I can’t afford to despair, its a luxury I cannot indulge in.
BlueDWarrior
@Betty Cracker: Which is pretty much par for the course regarding Trump coverage. The natural default is to fellate the Republican because most of the people who watch cable news consistently vote Republican (with the exception of prime-time MSNBC); until said Republican steps on their dick and they can get more views by playing the controversy card (see: Bush’s first term vs. second term).
BlueDWarrior
@Patricia Kayden: No amount of Democratic protest in that vein would undo, or I think even speak to, the fact that people cannot break out of their pattern of wanting Democratic policies enacted by Republicans. Until the voting public can get over their apparent schizophrenia, then Democrats remain lashed between two horses that are running full tilt in opposite directions.
Betty Cracker
@Patricia Kayden: Someone on Twitter said the Democratic response should have been Nancy Pelosi pounding wine. LOL! Did anyone watch Beshear’s response? I didn’t, but from what I’ve read, it wasn’t very effective. Not sure why they choose him rather than an up-and-comer like Gillibrand or Harris. Oh well, probably doesn’t matter anyway. I can’t remember an opposition response that ever made a difference in the long run.
cosima
@Kay: Definitely already underway. Like you, I’ve spent a lot time canvassing & speaking to various people in my capacity as a campaign volunteer (though I’ve got nowhere near the time & experience that you have). I will always be happy that Obama won his second term, but having volunteered through for his campaign for both elections, what I saw in 2012 was so discouraging. The g-d apathy. The ‘both sides are the same.’ People who are more than comfortable (financially) thinking they haven’t got a fair shake. He hadn’t done enough. Blah blah blah. The fucking entitlement of all on the spectrum. And the failure of those on the left in regard to being active and in pushing back against the endless lies & hate.
We were quite comfortable in the US, and there were plenty of very good reasons to stay where we were. Ultimately, it was all of the above that pushed us to take the big — uncertain — step of moving back to the UK. It is not easy for us to live here for many reasons, financial and otherwise, but on balance we decided that it was the best for us, as we had the opportunity, and not all do, we realise that. So, here we are, and we don’t regret it. We’re not citizens, our youngest, in spite of having been born here, is not a citizen. I told friends when we moved back here that the US’ experiment with democracy was nearing its end. I don’t know how long it will be until that end. I don’t know what the outcome will be. But I felt it then, and I feel it even more strongly now.
pk
I’ll give it 24 hrs before he pees on the media again or gets into a twitter fight. Then they’ll go back to moaning again. The man cannot change. One speech is meaningless and it’ll be forgotten in two days.
BlueDWarrior
@pk: I would certainly appreciate it Trump could even succeed at pretending to be a normal Republican because then you can talk about how ‘normal Republicans’ are bad for the country instead of the swirling maelstrom that is Trump himself.
But like you I figure the man (and his advisors) genuinely can’t help it and the media will be sent into a frenzy over something by this time next week.
schrodingers_cat
@pk: Didn’t you get the memo, we are supposed to panic and freak out because MSM did what it always does.
The Moar You Know
Fuckin BBC even was touting the “Trump reached across the aisle, why are Dems still so unreasonably angry” bullshit this morning. Fuck the goddamn media. I’m so sick of their fucking lies.
Ever since Hillary announced these bastards haven’t had their thumbs on the scale, they’ve been jumping up and down on it.
BlueDWarrior
@cosima: If you want to take the long-view, no country avoids these kinds of problems, and it was a minor miracle the US avoided it during the Robber Baron/Industrialist Era.
As it has been said in different ways through history, “All things built by Man will fall in time.”
cmorenc
@EBT:
Most people only casually follow news and politics, and know more about some local crime stories than national politics. We politically active folks are relative exceptions.
laura
Wow. Digby’s got a post that is worth reading this morning (every Digby post is worth reading IMHO) about the plan.
It’s actually make America white again, as had been suspected. So more fear whipping up, more cracking down on (some) crime (by some people), no abortion to increase white population, immigration will be even more limited than now, and our new AG is going to lead the way.
Fucking miserable grizzled old white men and the huge amount of white people fine with that. What is wrong with us?
realbtl
@Frank Wilhoit: EBT gave what I imagine is the back story. KB is a beautiful little state park about 2 air miles from Bryce. Similar colors though more of a central UT cliff feel than Bryce. A nice little diversion if you go to Bryce + great views of the NP from below.
Tazj
This won’t be surprising to anyone here.
Robert Costa @costareports 2h
What I picked up this AM
-WH planned for “indoor voice”
-But also wanted to push nationalism
-So a change in style, no change in policies
JMG
I am old enough to remember that Jimmy Carter’s “malaise” speech (in which he never used that word) came in a rough spot for his Presidency and was praised to the skies by pundits and polled well, too. One year later as election time rolled around, it became a symbol of all that was supposed to be wrong with him.
Speeches fade. Punditry fades even faster. Events stick. If Sherman doesn’t take Atlanta, history’s take on the Gettysburg Address would be very different.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I haven’t dug into any polls, but I’m seeing people like Barro and Weigel– both conservative if not Republican– saying it played very well with people who watched, people who, as Joy Reid pointed out, are probably not core or committed Democrats. and not only is your last point important, but look at the “rising stars” Republicans sent to respond to Obama. Everyone on twitter is mentioning Rubio and Jindal. Is it considered bad manners to pile on Bob McDonnell while he’s still in prison?
Trump was all but certain to get a media/polling bump from this, if only from the setting. He’s still a pig, still an erratic narcissist, still at odds with his own congressional majority on most of the big issues., still on the hook to replace Obamacare with something that provides more and better coverage to consumers at a lower price.
pepper
i wasn’t going to watch it, but i wanted to hear what he had to say about health care, so i sucked it up. it was poorly written and poorly delivered. what he said about health care wasn’t helpful. then he talked about the VOICE program and brought out some human props. that was a bridge too far, and i turned off my tv in disgust. i didn’t hear the moment that supposedly made him president, but; he approved a raid without knowing enough about it, he blamed the generals for the death of Chief Petty Officer Owens, he lied about the intelligence the raid gained, and then he brought out Owens’ widow and said that Owens would care about the applause. As if the men and women who serve our country do so for applause? this makes him presidential? i will admit that i don’t care much for our president, but if this is a presidential moment, we have set the bar in the wrong place.
zhena gogolia
@JMG:
thanks for cheering me up!
A friend this morning said about the reporters covering the Russian stuff, “They’re not stopping. They’re digging a hole under him.” She said it in Russian, so it sounded extra ominous.
tobie
I don’t know why it galls me but it still does that he would use the occasion of a soldier’s death to take a victory lap.
This is a genuinely fascist move. Take a death and make it the occasion for the birth of a nation as a uniform (uniformed) body that brooks no dissent. Every tin pot dictator does it, and, yes, Stalin and Hitler did it too. I hate to say it but the fact that Van Jones falls for this ploy shows he’s either not too bright or not too moral in the sense that all politics is theatrics for him.
waysel
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: Didn’t watch last night, but people here were remarking about all the raucous cheering and applause throughout the speech. I assume the R crowd got he memo ahead of time: “DJT needs you the cheer wildly or he will get all bent out of shape and make the Party look bad. Cheer wildly and he won’t shit the bed.” Stroke his ego constantly or he’ll go off the teleprompter. They have a formula for success.
cosima
@BlueDWarrior: Yes, I completely agree. Which is why I labelled it an ‘experiment.’ All democratic countries/governments walk a very fine line. Here in the UK it is imperfect, definitely, but there is a lot more common ground to be found, and that, I think, is the key. I have never, ever, having talked to thousands of people here in our years living in Scotland, heard anyone question the value of healthcare & education. If a country cannot agree on those two simple thing it is doomed. It is the foundation. Re-litigating just those two items (never mind all of the rest) for decades is corrosive, and it is destroying the US.
WereBear
They would rather rule in hell than “serve” in heaven.
JMG
If any pundit had said, “Trump is cynically exploiting the death of an American serviceman for political purposes” on cable news, no matter which network, said pundit would’ve been fired at the next commercial break. They CAN’T say the President has said or done something evil, because it detracts from the network’s goal of making money.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
also, too, I didn’t watch because of course I didn’t, so I’m just seeing this quote about Ryan Owens
“I quote”? I’ll defer to Adam Silverman or any reporter who can find a real, attributed quote from Mattis, but I really doubt Mattis would refer to a service member killed in action by his first name like that– the (IMHO) extremely tacky and unearned intimacy* of a reality show performer.
that should be huge news, as it contradicts everything that’s been said about the raid since the day after it happened. Every Pentagon reporter should be asking Mattis about this. I’d bet all my quatloos that Trump just made it up and hung Mattis out to dry, and that Mattis will craft some gobbledygook non-denial vague reply to cover Trump’s ass, and in two years we’ll find out in a “blockbuster” deep dive from the New Yorker or some such that Trump lied, and liberal pundits and blog readers and a couple of dozen principled Nat Sec conservatives will be incensed. And Mattis’s flack will repeat the non-denial denial gobbledygook about the long war
*Ana Marie Cox’s elegant phrase that speaks to the stuffy, somewhat formal old fart I sometimes am, especially about situations like this
pk
@schrodingers_cat:
I know. I don’t get this? I saw a clip of Morning Joe somewhere and even that twit said that “Trump was being graded on a curve”. One speech will not make all those who hate him suddenly start to like him. Plus, it will all depend on the economy and how much misery his policies will cause, and there is plenty of misery coming our way from the look of things. Speeches are meaningless. Hillary trounced him in the debates- had no effect. People are entrenched at this point. He could have waved his dick and the republican congress and his voters would have cheered. The only thing that can work for Trump is a continuous/semi continuous display of sanity and selling his abhorrent policies in dog whistles and code words. I’d be willing to bet the fortune I don’t have on that not happening any time soon.
zhena gogolia
@tobie:
Google Pavlik Morozov.
schrodingers_cat
@cosima: Ahh yes, UK, whose empire was built on peace and brotherhood between all men. The same country that voted for Brexit because they couldn’t stand Polish immigrants. Sure, beacon of hope.
amk
at least david corn is calling out the corruptest media in the world on twitter.
The Moar You Know
@cosima: I’m a year too old to leave. I would if I could.
Truth be told, I envy you. You did the right thing and I only wish that my wife and I had.
tobie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Interesting observation about the use of the first name. The whole quote is preposterous but you’re right that the business of using the first name really shows its inauthenticity.
Calling David Sanger…please start drilling the Pentagon with questions about this raid.
Tazj
@pepper: I agree, from what I’ve heard on the radio the speech was poorly delivered. His delivery was flat for the most part, and at times he seemed out of breath.
Thank you for reminding me not to take the speech so seriously.
Barbara
I didn’t watch it although I read about the particulars for the ACA. I posted this article to my Facebook page yesterday because I thought it gave an exceptionally clear, simple and effective explanation of how many are helped by which prong, and where the money comes from:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/24/opinion/why-undoing-obamacare-will-be-so-hard.html?_r=0
It seems that Trump might have endorsed the Ryan approach, which is unsurprising because he is fundamentally too lazy to offer anything cogent himself. On the other hand, there is simply no way this delivers more, better, cheaper health care so he will probably change again when he is talking to a different audience (one not comprised of Congress). I can’t twist myself into pretzels over every speech let alone every tweet. We have to play for the long game. I understand if people are discouraged and pessimistic, but at some point you are probably better off looking at the what might still be possible than continually reinforcing the things that make you want to start the day off with a good stiff drink.
The naked anti-immigrant snarling was among the most horrendous things I have heard in my lifetime from an American president, or any American politician. I am assuming that the “moderation” the press wanted to hear hardly moved the needle for people considering whether to travel or go to school in the United States. He is still on a path to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
ETA: Focusing on crime committed by immigrants seems exceptionally stupid the week after two Indian immigrants were shot by a native. He is racist to his core.
JMG
If only the media were corrupt. Then maybe we could bribe them. But shallow and uninformed can’t be cured.
zhena gogolia
@JMG:
Uh, yes, they are corrupt.
pepper
@Tazj: His delivery was very flat. i guess being able to read from a script using basically a monotone now passes for high oratory. had jeb! given that speech, trump would have said ‘low energy. sad!’
tobie
@zhena gogolia: Thanks for the reference. I looked Pavlik Morozov up and he fits the pattern of the dead child turned into a martyr for the cause. This is such a tried and true technique. (One could say the paradigm starts with Jesus.) It’s why every totalitarian regime has a memorial to an unknown solider. I guess we’re there now too.
zhena gogolia
@pepper:
WaPo tells me it was a “steady, muscular tone.”
The Moar You Know
Also: BBC quizzed a Congresscritter about the Obamacare replacement. He said it will be to shove all the “high risk pool” folks into a group that can’t get insurance and they can go to the ER.
That’s their cost cutting, folks. Die Quickly.
Patricia Kayden
@Tazj:
This is why it’s disappointing that so many are getting caught up with the style over the substance of Trump’s SOTU (which I didn’t watch). Nothing in his carefully read speech changes his policies.
WereBear
@tobie: Horst Wessel. He got a song, too.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Van Jones: Star Fucker.
Or wanna-be Star? Or.. I don’t know. Anyway, also from twitter-Nixon, where I found that pic
grandpa john
@tBone: it was just another of hiscollections of total bullshit, According to the fact checking I have seen lthis morning it was the same old lies,distortions and made up facts that he has always spouted, the fact checkers are working overtime on this total assault on truth
BlueDWarrior
@Patricia Kayden: And that’ll be the thing that bites him and the rest of the Republican party in the ass in the end, you know, unless everyone is lying and they are just dying for a return of the 1920s minus Prohibition.
Who knows maybe they are, and if so, we got a lot bigger school of sharks to fry.
Paul in KY
@seejanerun: Sadly, you’re probably right. If I was a SEAL, I’d have all my wills, etc. ready for my next of kin.
cosima
@schrodingers_cat: we’ve already been down this road, you & I. Plenty to bitch & moan about with regard to its history & its current government practices. My point stands that most everyone here (and certainly everyone that I’ve talked to) is in agreement re: the importance of health insurance & education, and the tax dollars needed to fund them.
And Brexit, please, that’s small potatoes when compared with electing the shitgibbon. I know a Polish citizen who lives here who voted for Brexit. Calling Brexit an anti-Polish thing is disingenuous, and you are aware of that, I’m certain.
tobie
@WereBear: So true. America’s Horst Wessel is named Ryan Owen.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Whosits from the National Review is also saying social conservatives felt left out. Substantively, they’ve got Gorusch, it’ll be interesting if they start demanding more
rikyrah
@laura:
When you have White Supremacists literally IN the White House… of course, this was the plan.
Paul in KY
@BlueDWarrior: Also the talking heads are all rich & Republican too. So it dovetails with their desires.
pk
There was a little girl who came to our door yesterday selling girl scout cookies. Her mom was wearing a hijab. I was feeling scared for her, even though our neighborhood is comparatively safe, although we have a few houses which had numerous Trump/pence signs. I wanted to ask her (as a fellow non white) if she felt o.k. going around the neighborhood, but didn’t ask because of offending her. I think this is the point a lot of people are missing. It’s not just about travelling to the US or the Muslim ban. It’s about feeling unsafe in your own country. I get a lot of messages from my non white friends with helpful suggestions about what to do at the airport, or stuff about visas etc. It’s about creating an atmosphere of fear. The kansas shooter targeted the Indian engineers thinking they were middle eastern and demanded to know if they were legal. That sent a message to all non whites that we’re all the same to them. This is just two months into his presidency. Unless something changes drastically, I don’t see how things will become better in the next 4 years. At this rate he’ll have to win his next term almost exclusively with the white vote.
hovercraft
So Obama delivers his Inaugural Address and his first State of the Union, and the commentary is all about how disappointed the villagers are that it wasn’t as good as his 2004 DNC speech, or his “race” speech in Philadelphia, those speeches did not soar, to quote Tweety . Twitler delivers a screed on inauguration day, and then tones it down last night and suddenly he is presidential? These assholes were always on the lookout for any sign that Obama was playing the “race card”, any sign that he resented the way he was treated. He was “thin skinned” in his reaction to FOX, he was violating the first amendment by refusing to appear on the network. I’ve lived my entire life as a black woman aware of the double standards, I was always told growing up that I had to work a minimum of twice as hard to get where a white woman would be, and even harder to get to where a white man. But the reaction to Twitler and his and his minions antics are just staggering, it’s one thing when you see white privilege in your own life, it’s usually subtle, deniability is an important element of keeping it in place, but what’s gone on over the last 18 months is staggering. It’s like Simon Cowel critiquing Carrie Underwood for being “pitchy”, all the while he praises William Hong for getting the key right, they are not comparable. FSM, if you exist and there is such a thing as reincarnation, please send me back as a white man, as long as I don’t get up and take a dump on a dinner table, chances are society will laud me as a success, if not society then at the very least the villagers would.
The Moar You Know
@Paul in KY: Think all service people have to do this. And I know you do if you even run a slight risk of going into combat.
cosima
@The Moar You Know: Last time around we didn’t have very strong feelings about being repatriated to the US, we weren’t thrilled with all that went on during the GWB years, certainly, but we were out of the country for a good bit of them, and they were nearing their end. This time, though we’ve got our youngest, who knows this as her home, a house that we own, and there’s a sociopath as president of the US. Stakes are somewhat different. So yeah, we’re glad that we made the choice, difficult as it has been. And hoping that we’ll be granted leave to remain when the time comes (soon, but in some ways not soon enough!).
Paul in KY
@The Moar You Know: I’m sure you are right about that. Good point.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Favreau and Van Jones probably saw quite a bit of each other in the White House
schrodingers_cat
@cosima: So if Brexit wasn’t about immigration from other EU countries what was it about? Your anecdata proves nothing, I am sure one can find some Latino or black or Jewish T voters. I am glad that Scotland has worked out for you but pretending that UK is some liberal utopia is bogus.
*It probably is if you have the right skin tone and accent, so good for you.
Yarrow
@tobie: The recovery is going to slow. At the end of March/early April travel and tourist related industries are going to show poor results. Projections for summer will be down. It’s a massive industry in this country and the ripple effects will be felt everywhere.
All that we need next is a trade war with anyone over anything. I think I read that lumber prices are due to spike due to some dumb Trump administration decision. So building will drop off.
Barbara
@pk: Not to discourage you more, but the Guardian had an article about a meeting of like minded white people in North Carolina deciding how to keep out Muslims in which one person kept asking why they couldn’t just shoot them all and be done with it. Okay, that’s bad. But the response from the person who convened the meeting was perhaps even worse when you think about it. He didn’t say, “are you batshit crazy?” No, it was to the effect that “we aren’t there yet.” I do know that if I were considering where to start a tech company that needs immigrant developers or engineers, I would not be considering North Carolina or Kansas as possible locations. It’s not just the prejudice, it’s the prejudice plus the normalization of gun culture.
Barbara
@Yarrow: But travel jobs aren’t real jobs. Only manufacturing jobs are real jobs. All other jobs are worthless and the workers who do them are invisible.
amk
@schrodingers_cat: sorry, you can’t compare the brit right wingers (farage for all his open bigotry was not successful politically) with the rabid, violent and gun humping wingnutz of murkkka. not even close.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Every fucking time a Republican does something like this the results are the same. The pundits swoon. My question is what do we do about the pundit class ? And don’t tell me fucking Twitter is the solution. Here’s what I saw at the gym this morning, the widow looking towards heaven while the audience applauds and Ivanka looks on with deep respect. On every channel. People are marinating in that video clip today and for the next few days. And all we have are some people “torching” Van Jones on Twitter. Van Jones was right in a sense, Trump actually “looked Presidential”, in a Lee Greenwood kind of way. On the other hand, Jones is a complete idiot if he thinks he can predict what will happen in 2020.
The Moar You Know
@schrodingers_cat: It was a slew of things (I was just over there and asked a lot of folks, who then asked me about Trump – great, really embarrassing conversations). Immigration was one of those things. But just one and not the major one. The biggie is this: if you’re not living in London and part of the “right crowd”, your life in England has just gotten gradually shittier over the years and no relief on the horizon. Your governments, liberal, conservative, or other, have sold out your interests for bankers again and again. Boy, those people hate their bankers, if I were in finance in England I’d be planning my own exit.
I heard the same thing again and again from everyone: “we wanted to send London a message that they just can’t ignore us anymore”. The politics of resentment being what it always is, London now ignores them more than ever. They just saw themselves as being out of options, and the truth was, they were. So they lashed out and now everyone is fucked (and they are fucked, Brexit is going to do some real, decades-long damage to that fine nation). If Scotland declares it’s going to be ten times worse. For Scotland too, as well as the English.
Bill
@Betty Cracker: Beshear’s response was fine as far as content. He said what any Democrat should’ve been saying. (The setting in a dinner was just weird though.)
Why the party chose a 103 year old former governor, with no future in politics, from a blood red state is beyond me though. It’s like the party absolutely refuses to acknowledge the need for younger leadership. I’m starting to expect Perez is going to dig up Ted Kennedy’s corpse to run in 2020.
schrodingers_cat
@amk: I am not playing the game of which right wingers are worse.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Bill: I have been told that we lost because we did not appeal to old white crackers in Red states, so this would seem to be the correct way to respond to Trump. At least, that’s what some would say.
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker:
The only goal of the response person is to avoid doing anything that will be turned into a joke or a meme. Rubio drinking water. Jindal and volcanoes. Being bland and boring is best. Few people watch and mostly it doesn’t matter.
Peale
Tomorrow, Trump could announce an office dedicated to making sure every boy molested by a homosexual is a national news story and every union school teacher caught drunk driving is splashed across the front pages of the times and I’m guessing the DC media will bow down and thank the President for making their decisions on what to cover so much easier.
Miss Bianca
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: you know, if you bought the hype about this country – “land of the free, home of the brave” etc. – and you’d have to, I think, to some extent at least, to serve in the military – but you’ve also been cursed with a brain, like your friend, then the sensation of watching this country elect the orange shitgibbon must be even more exquisitely painful and disillusioning than for most of us. Righteous rant.
Pogonip
@debit: How’s Walter?
cosima
@The Moar You Know: For informed voters it was absolutely the economics — Scotland had/has a different view on that, but that’s another long story.
If you are poor (and mostly uninformed) the immigrant issue is an easy one to latch on to, just as is the case in the US. There is a large group of UK citizens that is not being well-served by the EU. And I understand that. However, Brexit was not a solution to those problems, any more than voting for the shitgibbon was the solution for the remorseful voters who now are wondering what will happen to their Obamacare. As I said above, the UK has many problems, in its government and in other ways, and I’ve never claimed it is utopia or anything close to that (if it were we’d have a much bigger population, and a lot less emigration), but it’s light years beyond the US in terms of consensus amongst its citizens.
Scotland is huge, and it has a small population, so there were plenty of highly visible benefits (improved transportation, roads, etc.). Even the issue of fishing constraints (big in Scotland), so fraught initially, began to settle. I am involved with several sports initiatives that directly benefit from EU funds. So, I see the benefits. I, as SCat pointed out, am pale. I do not have the right accent, but we are quite obviously not living here at the expense of taxpayers. England & Scotland are quite different in many ways. I don’t know what Brexit will bring, what it will be like after that — will we undergo a similar volatile sea-change as the US is now experiencing? Who knows. I’ve seen a bit of writing on the wall that makes me concerned. But we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it, and I’m going to remain cautiously optimistic.
My oldest, who lives in VT, is very angsty about all things political right now (rightly so). However, in my attempts to talk to her down, I’ve said to her ‘pick your battles — what are you going to direct your energies toward, given that you have a limited supply of energy and time?’ Health care & education. I’m pretty passionate about those two things, and I’ve got more time on my hands than she does, so I’d add voting rights. I, personally, think a lot of people would choose health care & education. Those two issues have been dividing the US for decades, bitterly, since Obama’s first election. And those are the two things that pretty much everyone — even the Brexit voters — agree on here, and that makes it a better fit for us. SCat may have wanted to drag this in a different direction, but that was my initial point, made in response to Kay’s comment, and it stands.
amk
@schrodingers_cat:
But you were. When you compared the two countries’treatment of immigrants, which per se is the right wingers territory.
Laura B
Ugh, that subheadline at WP… “President wins high marks for his steady, muscular tone” with 3 men in the byline. I keep seeing (especially) men praising him, like they are so relieved they can tell us little women that “see honey, give him a chance, you’re worried for nothing.” Any woman knows that charismatic abusers are able to act normal when it’s important and that people will rally around the abuser and make you feel like you’re being ridiculous for pointing out what he’s doing. Watching this unfold today is so sickening.
Muscular? Muscular? I try not to go to ranting about fascism too easily but damn, a clip of the headline describing that tubby blob’s blatant lying and self-congratulation as being steady & muscular is going to be in the future museum of whatever we call this era.
tBone
@hovercraft:
Point of clarification: if you do get reincarnated as a white dude, you can totally take a dump on the dinner table without being blamed, as long as you’re “economically anxious.”
Bill
@BlueDWarrior:
They are. Is there any question about this?
The Truffle
@Bill: I sorta see why they chose him. He is a former red-state governor that brought KYNECT to Kentucky. He represents a lot of white working class voters who went for Trump.
Betty is right: opposition responses don’t get a lot of PR unless they are embarrassing, like Jindal’s. Maybe next time, though, they should bring on Warren. She’d get under Trumple’s thin skin.
schrodingers_cat
@amk: All I was saying was that UK is not a utopia. I never denied that things are a bit bleak right now. This country also elected Barack Obama twice. This moment in history does not represent the past, neither is it predictive of the future. UK doesn’t get a pass for being wonderful because American voters crapped the bed in Nov 2016.
Debbie1
@cosima: It seems that we had similar experiences while canvassing in 2012. I too ran into people who lived in nice suburbs, kvetching about how tough their lives were. Incidentally, I tried to put the same efforts into the 2016 elections (knowing that I actually tried is the only thing keeping me from swallowing my own tongue), but a man I spoke to while canvassing in N.H. whined about economic anxiety. As I walked away from his spacious driveway, I caught a glimpse of his sailboat out back. Needless to say, he was conflicted about casting a vote for Hillary Clinton. I must say it was a nice country while it lasted.
hovercraft
@tBone:
LOL ;-)
But sadly true ;-(
Debbie1
@Bill: The choice of Beshear is because Dems are trying to save the ACA, and he expanded Medicaid in Kentucky as governor. So, Dems. were trying to complement the town hall protests.
Debbie1
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: With regard to Sen. Graham’s statement that TR*mp’s budget is “all talk, no action” & “dead on arrival,” does that mean that Lindsey Graham will vote for it soon, or yesterday?
Peale
@Laura B: But he told us to start thinking big! Of course everything he wants to do is bad, will harm a lot of people, is unnecessarily expensive, is a sop to the already powerful, was tried a dozen times before and failed each time, replaces something good and inexpensive with something worse that’s more expensive…but its muscular! Its BOLD!
debit
@Pogonip: As well as can be expected. A little wobbly when he stands up, and on a couple new pain meds. Still has a great appetite and seems pretty cheerful, so I call it a win.
cosima
@Debbie1: It’s very stressful having to count on keeping your job so that you can pay for the big house + Escalade + sailboat! Sounds like our Denver neighbours — who had a gay son, and their son’s godmother was black & gay (and a saint to put up with their wishy-washy political bullshit, it really grated on me). But more stuff! Bigger house! More vacations! Economic anxiety!
We haven’t taken a proper vacation in years (our story for Little C is that living in Scotland counts as vacation), have two cars that we bought used, no boats (we do have bikes!), pay taxes in the UK and the US, and *still* voted for Hillary.
Ian
@Bob2:
Just as long as he doesn’t go golfing.
glory b
@Bill: Geez, the DNC head does not pick candidates!
Can we at this blog at least be bright enough to find out what these people do?
Wilmer’s crowd needed an excuse for his loss, so they decided to hang it on DWS and the DNC. I still don’t get how, even being given the MOST GENEROUS reading, those emails showed some smoking gun. Because they decided that, the Perez/Ellison race was given WAY more time and attention than it deserved.
The DNC runs the convention(including the mundane stuff of choosing venues, vendors, etc.) and assisting local parties.
The RNC runs the same way. Do you think Michael Steele wanted the Tea Party takeover? He didn’t have the ability to choose candidates and neither does Perez.
Can we at
mozzerb
@cosima:
Given the current behavio(u)r of our government — you REALLY need to make sure that this isn’t going to change rapidly. Yes, people say it was about “sending London a message” and so on, and I’m sure it was for lots of people, and that was just as breathtakingly stupid as voting Trump because of coal jobs or whatever. It was also, for many people, about saying “f**k off, Johnny Foreigner”.
In effect we had a choice between traditional English pragmatism and traditional English xenophobia, and we went 52-48 for the latter. (I use “English” not “British” advisedly here — the Scots, as you’ve found out, had more sense.)
Van Buren
@tobie: A Horst Wessel cover coming soon to a FOX station near you.
FlipYrWhig
@Bill:
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY NEVER SPEAKS TO THE CONCERNS OF ANXIOUS WHITE REDSTATERS AND ALSO WASTES TOO MUCH TIME SPEAKING TO THE CONCERNS OF ANXIOUS WHITE REDSTATERS
chopper
white republican reads speech off of teleprompter, media creams pants.
sweet buttery jesus, the soft bigotry of low expectations strikes again. this is why we can’t have nice things.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: what does a massive expansion of health care to poor and working class people have to do with progressive priorities? A speech about health care from an old white guy with a southern accent doesn’t make my right wing stepdad mad enough!
dww44
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thanks for this. I said the same thing about Beshear’s speech last night on a long since dead thread here at B.J. and I don’t have the political expertise that Barro and Weigel have.
If some of you haven’t seen Steve Schmidt’s critique on MSNBC last night durring the latter part of the 10 p.m. hour or so, please find it and watch it. While I don’t do MSNBC links well or easily, perhaps others here can.
I’d like to hear others’ opinions about him, his remarks, and as well Rachel’s response to his remarks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
About Besmear? all I see is them agreeing that it was a terrible choice, hostages and mannequins– was that it?
NYCMT
@tBone: James Pindell has specialized in covering horse-race elections since the nineties. Choosing him to write an analysis of last night’s speech is a significant editorial decision.
dww44
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes, but specifically, the negativity from Schmidt is just so off putting. There was a time when his presence on MSNBC wasn’t so blatantly partisan. And Rachel disappointed me because she just tried to turn it all into a joke. I thought that Beshear did a credible job and focused on an actual policy issue that matters to folks, notwithstanding that he had a credible place from which to talk about the ACA and other issues.
glory b
@glory b: Sorry, boss was calling.
Can we at least get this straight?
Bill
@glory b: Yeah, you’re reading waaaay too much in to my post.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@schrodingers_cat:
What he said. I mean come on, Trump should have been doing this back at the Inauguration and keep in mind just to get the 1st Terrible Infant to perform last night at “GW, on a bad day” his staff had to spend a two weeks stroking Trump’s ego with campaign rallies, softball press conferences and so on. Even then Trump managed to piss of the military, set out no real policy and repeat his “we’re screwed, if only we had a new President” speech as always.
I seriously think all the cheering is Washington decided last night was Trump capitulating to just being a care taker presidency.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Patricia Kayden:
If the Democrats had done that today the MSM would be calling for the life time banning of all registered Democrats from public office for treason and it would have overshadowed the naked rage at Trump coming from the Joint Chiefs.
Captain C
@hovercraft:
.
Objection: Assumes facts without evidence. If you did that, there’s a good chance that at least the Village would applaud you and write hot takes and think pieces about your daring, your refusal to conform to restrictive societal manners and norms, and how anyone who objected was objectively a fuddy duddy and probably a liberal, to boot.