Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

So many bastards, so little time.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

There are no moderate republicans – only extremists and cowards.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Roe is not about choice. It is about freedom.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

GOP baffled that ‘we don’t care if you die’ is not a winning slogan.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

Our messy unity will be our strength.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

I’m more christian than these people and i’m an atheist.

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

Cancel the cowardly Times and Post and set up an equivalent monthly donation to ProPublica.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Wednesday Morning Open Thread

Wednesday Morning Open Thread

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Happier news…

Buzzfeed with more details:

… Financial terms of the deal with Penguin Random House were not disclosed, but the publisher said it will donate one million books to a nonprofit partner for the 2016 White House digital education initiative, Open eBooks. The Obamas also plan to donate a significant portion of the proceeds to charity, including the Obama Foundation, the publisher announced…

While the financial terms weren’t disclosed, a publishing deal worth $60 million would break a record for presidential memoirs — George W. Bush’s and Bill Clinton’s sold for $10m and $15m, respectively, the FT reported…

And in local news…

The Boston Globe:

… The Grammy Award-winning artist — whose full name is Robyn Rihanna Fenty — was in town Tuesday to receive the college’s 2017 Humanitarian of the Year award.

And not surprisingly, her presence created something of a stir on campus.

By 7 a.m., students were already lining up to ensure they’d get tickets when they became available at noon. And as the day’s 4 p.m. ceremony approached, the line to get into Sanders Theatre stretched well down the block…

The point of the festivities, though, was to honor the performer’s humanitarian work, a lengthy resume oftentimes overshadowed by her success in the music industry.

At just 18, she founded the Believe Foundation, which provided support to terminally ill children.

And since then, she hasn’t much slowed down.

Her Clara Lionel Foundation — named for her grandparents — tackles a range of causes, from education to health and emergency response programs. And her work with the Global Partnership for Education and Global Citizen Project helped convince Canada to pledge $20 million to the Education Cannot Wait fund…

In thanking the university, she spoke about family, and her grandmother’s losing battle with cancer. She spoke of her upbringing in Barbados, and her childhood dreams of saving the world, one 25-cent donation at a time.

Mostly, she urged students to do their part, to make a commitment to help just one person.

“People make it seem way too hard, man,” she said. “You don’t have to be rich to be a humanitarian. You don’t have to be rich to help someone, you don’t have to be famous, you don’t even have to be college educated.

“My grandma always used to say if you’ve got a dollar, there’s plenty to share.”

Reader Interactions

147Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Poppycock and piffle. How many self gratifying portraits have her foundations paid for?

  2. 2.

    Patricia Kayden

    Mostly, she urged students to do their part, to make a commitment to help just one person.

    So true, Riri. Great words to live by.

  3. 3.

    efgoldman

    While the financial terms weren’t disclosed, a publishing deal worth $60 million would break a record for presidential memoirs

    Red flag (Obama’s contract) meet bull (Citron Shitgibbon).
    This has got to enrage him like pretty much nothing else. Way to go!

  6. 6.

    Schlemazel

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    I read it but found it too long for the content it provided. One thing that I have experienced working in restaurant kitchens – if you order your steak well-done you are going to get the oldest, worst piece of meat they have sitting around. The guy that trained me on the grill explained it to me, “Cooked like that it ain’t gonna be tender & it ain’t gonna taste like much of anything so its how we get rid of the crap pieces”

    Hair furor paid $45 to eat crap

  7. 7.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    Happy Birthday to my friend, Dr. Paul Krugman who turned 64 yesterday;

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Classy, his foundation must have hired all the VERY BEST CHEFS. And for the record? The less I know of his eating habits, the better. Just the thought makes me shiver.

  10. 10.

    bjacques

    $60 million is peanuts. After Trump finishes his second term, his memoirs will be snapped up for *$100* million by the totally legit publisher Oligarski & Boyar, who also put out Aleksandr Dugin’s Favorite Jokes.

  11. 11.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    On the book of faces, I posited this interesting contradiction of conservatism as we move forward:

    “The already affluent, whether by inheritance or their own efforts, need massive tax cuts,constant praise and worship and more millions in order to provide incentive to achieve.

    The working poor need their government support, workplace safety regulations and wage standards slashed in order to provide them incentive to work harder and achieve more.”

    Discuss…

  13. 13.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @bjacques:

    After Trump finishes his second term, his memoirs will be snapped up for *$100*

    prison memoirs usually come at a premium.

  14. 14.

    Baud

    Reddit changed their front page algorithm a little while ago. Good news is that the white nationalist/libertarian crap has been replaced by anti-trump posts. Bad news is that the Bros are back as well.

  17. 17.

    PaulW

    On a personal note, I need to cut back on my blogging and tweeting and shit. My writing efforts are suffering.

  18. 18.

    Baud

    Martin Heinrich has been the D senator from New Mexico since 2013. He has got to be the most invisible person in the Senate.

  20. 20.

    Baud

    @Baud:

    I just went through the list of Senators. It seems like half of them are people we never talk or hear about.

  21. 21.

    Central Planning

    @WereBear: Similar to “I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals. I am a vegetarian because I hate plants.” – A. Whitney Brown, SNL

  24. 24.

    satby

    @rikyrah: Good morning, rikyrah and all! I usually try to read the overnight threads in the morning, but do I want to today? I missed all the events last evening watching Bogie on TCM, and I suspect my day will go better if I remain blissfully ignorant for a few more hours.

  25. 25.

    Waldo

    @Baud: Fun fact from Wikipedia about Heinrich:

    In 2014, Heinrich and Republican Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona traveled to a small island called Eru in the Marshall Islands. The Discovery Channel sent a film crew to document their trip and plan to air the film for a show called Rival Survival. Heinrich and Flake had to survive for six days with few resources, including no natural sources of drinkable water.

    Spoiler alert: They both survived

  27. 27.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Waldo:

    including no natural sources of drinkable water.

    Showing the utter waste of profit that is the EPA.

  30. 30.

    bystander

    I have on CBs and they’re talking about how triumphant and presidential Trumputin was last night. Ick.

  31. 31.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Heh. Maybe there is a God after all. And she’s a stand up comedian playing to an audience that is afraid to laugh.

    Ham said the Ark hosted 500,000 visitors in the six months it was open in 2016. A staffer said about 645,000 guests have visited the 510-foot replica of Noah’s Ark. Ham called the Ark a success but its success has not had quite the ripple effect that many in Grant County expected. “It’s been a great thing but it’s not brought us any money,” said Grant County Judge-Executive Steve Wood during a break from a budget meeting.

    The county is teetering on bankruptcy and is trying to balance the budget. Wood said they were to the point where jobs may have to be cut. He will propose a 2% payroll tax at next week’s fiscal court meeting. He blames prior fiscal courts for the budget crisis, not the Ark. But he said the Ark had not lived up to its promise.

    “I was one of those believers that once the Ark was here everything was going to come in. But it’s not done it. It’s not done it. I think the Ark’s done well and I’m glad for them on that. But it’s not done us good at all.”

    Those $18 million in tax incentives sure are paying off.

  34. 34.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Baud:

    The county is teetering on bankruptcy

    It hasn’t brought the county government any money. That is the whole and entire purpose of today’s GOP, starving govt.

  35. 35.

    Quinerly

    In other news, Poco has made his Balloon Juice debut on that new “On the Road” thread. Take a peek at my handsome boy who takes the best vacations. He loves Marble Canyon, AZ. Plenty of room to sniff in a noncommercialized setting. His favorite stop since we left the trains behind in Winslow, AZ.

  37. 37.

    NorthLeft12

    I did not know that about Rihanna. A wonderful human being and amazing talent. A great example for the rest of the 1%, and the other 99% too, to follow.

  40. 40.

    Anya

    Has our country gone insane? Trump is being praised for saying a slain US Sailor is looking down happily from heaven because his mention received a record applause? Seriously this is where we are now?!?!

  42. 42.

    Quinerly

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    Thanks. Tough life on the mean streets of South St. Louis for at least two years. Stray Rescue had him on tape at least that long trying to catch him they said. As gentle as they come. Obviously had a home at some point. He had a terrible skin condition when I got him and a piece of his ear has been torn off. He’s living the life now.?

  43. 43.

    Jeffro

    I’m getting ready to fly out of national airport where all the sign say “see something say something ”

    … I don’t know if my country is being run by a bunch of crooks and third rate bagman for the Russian mafia does that count ? Who do I say something to ?

  44. 44.

    SFAW

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    “The Bros are Back in Town…”, has the makings for a good song.

    Would that it were a one-hit “wonder,” like the original. Alas, it is not to be.

    You old fart. (Sounds like you were reading Krugman before many of the more “experienced” commenters — yours truly, raven, efgoldman — were born.)

  50. 50.

    Anya

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: how could I forget the emails. And apparently, Chelsea Clinton’s tweets are why we’ll continue to lose. At least that’s what the cool commentators on twitter tell me. Just. Shoot. Me.

  52. 52.

    SFAW

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I was reading Kthug* before some commenters here were born, though not the more “experienced” commenters.

    Yeah, yeah, whatever you gotta tell yourself. As long as you don’t start in with stuff like “I have the best brain” shit, I guess there’s hope.

  53. 53.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    As I said last night:

    The desire of the media to normalize this fuckface is disheartening, and I think reveals that we’re well and truly fucked. Like it or not, this is the country we are – the white plurality is unrepentant and hateful; Donald Trump is the national id, insofar as they’re concerned.

    I’m going to quote Jeremiah Wright – God Damn America. We are going to deserve everything that is going to happen – the economic dislocation, infrastructure wreckage, war deaths, terror attacks. I just hope that it reaches deeply into suburbia and hurts and hurts again. I want pasty, puffy paper pushing “heroes” of the financial service and insurance industries to fucking starve and to watch their families lose everything.

    It took that in the 30s to break the jingoistic ego – it will take that now.

    Hopefully, the end of the United States brings about a better country – some sort of North American Union built from the remaining structures plus Canada and Mexico, focusing on a more democratic model. We’ll need a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, too, after a few dozen well publicized trials and revolutionary sentences.

  54. 54.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Anya: Yes.

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Monday morn I couldn’t think of a new PG rated way to say my usual to Quinerly, and I forgot to say anything at all. Tuesday morning I realized my mistake from the previous morn and I thought, “Well, that was original.”

  56. 56.

    Betty Cracker

    I deliberately missed the shitgibbon speech last night, but from what I’m reading on MSM Twitter feeds, it sounds like the press has found its long-awaited pivot. Hard to square that circle with what I’m reading from the speech itself, which includes setting up another program to demonize immigrants without paperwork, who are generally far more law-abiding than native-born Americans. Trump’s scapegoating of immigrants has already resulted in the murder of innocent people.

    Saw a clip of Van Jones squeeing over the speech like an 11-year-old girl at a Bieber concert, so I watched the excerpt in question — the part where the shitgibbon used the Navy SEAL’s widow as a prop and once again hid behind General Mattis’ skirt. Not seeing what’s so “presidential” about that, but I’m a cynical old broad, so there’s that.

  57. 57.

    Baud

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I mentioned the Bros on Reddit upthread, but I should also mention that they are getting pushback from other redditors, so it’s not completely one-sided. It still sucks that they are relitigating the primaries. On the other hand, I don’t see how we can acquiesce to the lie that Hillary didn’t legitimately win the primary.

  58. 58.

    Baud

    @Betty Cracker: I have to say, as long as I’ve known of him, Van Jones has been hit or miss. Sometimes he’s great and other times he leaves you scratching your head.

  59. 59.

    Quinerly

    @Baud: @SFAW:
    He’s still snoring loudly this AM. Sleeping for hours while Mom makes hair pen turns is exhausting, it seems.

  60. 60.

    Kay

    Wikileaks struggling mightily to cobble together some principles:

    WikiLeaks‏Verified account @wikileaks Feb 24
    WikiLeaks Retweeted Donald J. Trump
    Trump should distinguish between senior intelligence officials conspiring to plant stories, isolated leakers, whistleblowers & publishers.

    See, they have these categories. They determine motive and intent – judge and jury- and then publish only those leaks that originated with pure motives and noble intent.

    I check periodically to see if they published anything from the RNC or GOP candidates. It seems unlikely to me that all leaks that harm Donald Trump are in the impure category and all leaks that discredit Democrats are in the pure category. What are the odds, right?

  62. 62.

    Anya

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: what is this establishment democrat crap? Sometimes, I listen to Sam Seder’s Majority Report podcast. After a long time, I downloaded it last night. Read the episode description: “Keith Ellison would have represented a progressive move forward for the Democratic Party. Why did establishment democrats invest so heavily in blocking the progressive movements.” I promptly deleted it. I am confused who’s considered a establishment. Why isn’t a congressman part of the establishment but a former Labor Secretary is part of it?

  64. 64.

    chris

    @debbie: He’s had a lot of practise. With any luck he won’t be around much longer, his resume is a little padded and now some military types are a little pissed. Links from Adam last night:

    https://twitter.com/warmatters
    https://twitter.com/empiricalerror

    Adam: The first timeline is for a security studies professor. Several folks who have either served in the Royal Army or the Territorial Army or have close friends that have have weighed in and basically are alleging that he’s a Walter Mitty type. His claim is he worked on Northern Ireland stuff in the 90s when in the Territorial Army (TA) while an undergrad. Specifically that he was in the 22nd COY. The 22nd COY had nothing to do with Northern Ireland, rather it was focused on post Soviet Eastern Europe and Russia. Given that service in the TA for the 3 years he claims to have been in would have worked out to about 3 months total, he didn’t do much of anything – most likely translated Hungarian newspapers.

    The second feed does a deep dive into his claims, including gathering Hungarian language sources about him and provides translations. Some really interesting stuff there laying out just how dubious his claims are. He knows nothing about terrorism beyond a casual/superficial amount. Other than the job title he had at NDU’s CISA, he has absolutely no experience with special operations, irregular, asymmetric, and/or unconventional warfare.

  65. 65.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: In an amazing coincidence, the purloined material WikiLeaks publishes on European politicians also happens to tip the scales in favor of white nationalist candidates.

    Saw an article somewhere (Guardian, maybe?) recently that projects the Ecuadorean presidential candidate who has vowed to bounce Assange out of the London embassy is projected to win. If that comes to pass, it’ll be interesting to see how the Trump admin responds.

  66. 66.

    Hal

    Mazel Tov Cocktail‏ @AdamSerwer
    @nhannahjones that’s really it. The “Trump didn’t come for me so he cool” principle.

    10

    in reply to @AdamSerwer
    1h
    Mazel Tov Cocktail‏ @AdamSerwer
    Seriously that’s it.

    28

    114

    1h
    Mazel Tov Cocktail‏ @AdamSerwer
    Wondering why pundits and reporters are gushing over a Trump speech David Duke loved? It’s because he spent little time attacking the media.

  67. 67.

    Anya

    @Baud: He’s more of a miss for me. He’s always trying very hard to be likable so some of his comments come off as insincere. Like he’s trying to set himself up as an independent voice. The only thing Van Jones should’ve focused on was Trump’s proposals that institutionalize bigotry and targeting and those who will hurt average Americans.

  69. 69.

    SFAW

    @Anya:

    Why isn’t a congressman part of the establishment but a former Labor Secretary is part of it?

    Perez was the patsy put forth by Obama and History’s Greatest Monster(s), therefore anything he did at DoJ and Labor is completely suspect. All that “liberal” shit he did? Just window dressing, and all part of the nefarious plan by the Arkansas/Chicago Mafia(s).

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    “Conspiring”. That seems to be the distinction they’re drawing. “Lone leakers” (obviously) can’t “conspire” because they are… lone :)

    How do we know they’re “lone”? Because Wikileaks says they are.

  71. 71.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    Does the U.S. have any legal beef with Assange? He’s a scumbag, but he’s not accused of breaking any laws here IIRC.

    Even if he had, President Bannon has already prepared the pardon-in-advance document for Shitgibbon to put its “X” on.

  72. 72.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @Anya: I think you’re progressive and non-establishment if you endorsed Wilmer in the primaries, if you endorsed the email lady or didn’t endorse you’re establishment. And always remember the establishment Democrats are solely responsible for all losses and everything bad, including Dolt45. //

  73. 73.

    Baud

    @Kay: Wikileaks is awfully nontransparent for an organization supposedly committed to transparency.

  74. 74.

    SenyorDave

    I didn’t watch last night, but I gather that the fact that Trump didn’t take a dump on the floor has convinced some people that he’s the second coming of Churchill. Sounds like Trump has become the affirmative action president that some conservatives said of Obama.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    I knew they were gonna have to start explaining when Trump announced he was going after leakers. Leakers who damage his administration. All the other leakers are pure.

    This was my problem with Wikileaks from the get-go. They’re not transparent and they’re not accountable. It’s a fatal flaw as far as I’m concerned. Kiss of death and one that was baked in from the beginning.

  77. 77.

    Hal

    @Anya: I’m riding to work on the bus listening to that specific podcast. Seder is making the argument that Ellison would have used true progressive people to help run the DNC, and that Obama’s people were terrible at the DNC job of getting Democrats elected.

    I’m not sure why some folks of the left don’t think Ellison and Perez can’t combine their skills and strengths to make a better functioning DNC though.

  78. 78.

    Elmo

    Sounds like my decision to get blind drunk at the Irish pub down the street from the hotel, instead of watching the speech, was the right call. There may have been singing and dancing involved.

  80. 80.

    Brachiator

    The Oscar winner for Best Picture, Moonlight, is expanding to 1500 screens this weekend.

    Check it out, if it plays near you.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    They’re flogging the same emails from the campaign to reveal that Perez supported Clinton. Perez endorsed Clinton publicly, but maybe we’re back to their “conspiracy” moral distinction. Maybe a political party ITSELF is a conspiracy, except the Republican Party, I guess.

  82. 82.

    Baud

    @Hal:

    I’m not sure why some folks of the left don’t think Ellison and Perez can’t combine their skills and strengths to make a better functioning DNC though.

    Right, and this way Ellison gets to keep is seat in Congress.

    And it should be said that, at least from what I’ve seen so far, Ellison has been great in being a team player.

  83. 83.

    Paul in KY

    @OzarkHillbilly: The weirdos who go to that don’t spend any money on food or drink in the county. Probably not much on gas, as they bus in on their church’s van.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Maybe a political party ITSELF is a conspiracy, except the Republican Party, I guess.

    Or the Greens, etc. Really, it’s only the Dems that are subject to these mysterious, arbitrary, and heightened standards. Like the one that says it’s evil and antidemocratic for the party to let only party members chose who their nominees will be. How fascist!

  85. 85.

    Anya

    @Hal: I am going to agree that Obama’s people did a terrible job when they abondoned the 50 state strategy. As people who pride themselves in organizing they neglected local organizing and put all their focus on presidential elections. However, Perez is a progressive with a proven track record. Dismissing him as an establishment candidate and erasing his accomplishments is terrible.

  87. 87.

    SFAW

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    True, that was Bill Clinton’s fault. Bill Clinton is the great master of “The Establishment”.

    I thought it was because Bush and Gore were exactly the same. (May Saint Ralph the Pure burn in Hell forever.)

  89. 89.

    JMG

    Cable news pundits and the boys and girls on the White House beat are amazingly easy to fool, because they are amazingly shallow people who don’t even try to understand how government works. All they have is one plotline “President X Faces Life.” Thus, Trump, like all other Presidents, MUST have “pivots” and “crises” and ups and downs because “Trump shits bed again today” is too boring for them to repeat and also gets them in trouble with their almost entirely Republican big bosses at the heads of the media conglomerates they work for.

  90. 90.

    Anya

    @Kay: They make normal campaign communication seem nefarious. I am more disappointed in the so called progressives who are being useful idiots.

  92. 92.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Hal:

    Seder is making the argument that Ellison would have used true progressive people to help run the DNC, and that Obama’s people were terrible at the DNC job of getting Democrats elected.

    Why is there this feeling, prevalent in some circles, that “true progressive people” are the ones who are expert at “getting Democrats elected”? Is there one example of that actually happening? Or is the point that the reason why there is not an example of its actually ever happening is that the DNC is so mean and unfair they won’t give the True Progressives a _chance_ to run things, a gambit you may remember from such arguments as “real Communism has never been tried!”

  93. 93.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    This whole thing is ridiculous. They are avowedly not members of the Democratic Party. Why on earth do they care so much who runs the DNC? Frankly, caring so much who runs the DNC is almost proof positive they’re not members of the Democratic Party in any real, local way. What, specifically, can Bernie Sanders NOT do because Perez is the head of the DNC? I have never in my life given that a second’s thought when helping with a state or Congressional race. I have never even heard it mentioned as some kind of barrier or even factor.

    They have to tell me what is standing in the way of them dominating in WI, OH, or MI. Show me. They also have to explain Feingold losing, and then the flip side of that which is Sherrod Brown winning. No one stops Sherrod Brown. This conspiracy to thwart their candidates doesn’t exist and to make it exist they have to pick and choose races- they have to ignore certain losses and also ignore certain wins.

  94. 94.

    Baud

    @FlipYrWhig: I think it’s the latter. In their minds, there are only two groups — us and them — and if we fail that necessarily means they deserve a shot to be in control.

    @Kay: I think they are fighting the last battle, since they’ve put so much stock in the idea that the DNC rigged the primary.

  95. 95.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: Wilmer is too pure to sully himself by joining a political party, ergo anyone associated with a political party is corrupt too. I await the turning on the traitor Ellison in 3…2…1…

  96. 96.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: The only ‘sane’ argument I can draw from what they babble about is that they will get Democratic nominees to run as ‘out & proud’ Democrats & not as fake Republicans.

  97. 97.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Anya:

    I am confused who’s considered a establishment.

    It’s based on what the narrative requires. If you block Bernie Sanders, you are The Establishment.

    I realized the other day what this argument about The Establishment and Tom Perez is EXACTLY LIKE. Remember the episode of The Simpsons where Homer goes to college? And his reaction to the dean, Bobby Peterson?

    Bobby is a young go-getter—very mellow, hip, and easy-going. He used to play bass guitar for The Pretenders and he encourages the Springfield University students to call him by his first name. […] In spite of Bobby’s positive qualities, Homer Simpson takes an instant dislike to him, and spends most of his time at Springfield University nurturing an unreasonable resentment for the dean. Due to watching bad college comedy movies such as School of Hard Knockers, Homer has a stereotypical image of a college dean as an inflexible old fuddy-duddy.

    Tom Perez has to be the inflexible old fuddy-duddy, or else the Berniacs don’t get to live out their crashing-the-gates fantasy.

  98. 98.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Paul in KY: I’m thinking of going to it. For pointing and mocking purposes, of course. If I do, I’m gonna try and do it without spending a single dime in the entire state.

  99. 99.

    Kropadope

    @SFAW:

    I’m thinking GIlead is more likely, but you could be right.

    The Biergarten Putz is just using the fundies for their votes, I don’t think he has any overtly proselytizing agenda. Panem actually seems like a good fit the decadence of the rich propped up by a strong central leader. Still, that was based on ancient Rome and since Chump is old and not up to ate on, well, anything; perhaps he’s going for more of a Caligula vibe. ETA: Maybe that’s why he wears such shabby suits, a precursor to arguing for the return of the toga.

  101. 101.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Baud:

    In their minds, there are only two groups — us and them — and if we fail that necessarily means they deserve a shot to be in control.

    Not that you don’t already know this, but I don’t really get why the RELATIVE SIZE OF THE FUCKING GROUPS never enters into it.

  102. 102.

    Baud

    @FlipYrWhig: I vaguely recall a Lenin quote that explains that. Tried to google but couldn’t find it. Gotta run now, unfortunately.

  103. 103.

    Betty Cracker

    @Baud: It’s my understanding Assange is under indictment for publishing stolen material and could thus be extradited to the US, but maybe that’s Assange’s own PR/fundraising pitch.

    @Kay: Exactly right; they are totally opaque about their own finances and methods. The publication of some materials — the “collateral murder” video, for example — might have been a net public good if they’d been handed over to a reputable organization. As it is, they gave credibility an unaccountable, paranoid gadfly who is happy to be a tool for far right demagogues.

  104. 104.

    Paul in KY

    @OzarkHillbilly: Try to have a righteous buzz when you hit it. Understand you not wanting to spend any money. I do the same when I travel thru WV ;-)

  106. 106.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Paul in KY: And I hope you do the same if you ever pass thru Misery. In fact, I’d appreciate it if you’d pass thru twice without spending any money, once for you, and once for me.

  107. 107.

    D58826

    First let me say I’m not a big believer in the POTUS has ‘blood on his hands’ (even when they are little hands) as a result of an American soldier/diplomat dying as a result of hostile actions. POTUS sends these folks in harms way and they know/accept the risk when they take the job. Old cliche about ‘fortunes of war’.

    Yet somehow Hillary/Obama are directly and personally responsible for what happened in Benghazi even though the events were almost totally out of their control. In the meantime Das Fuhrer is ‘Presidential’ when he uses a grieving widow as a stage prop to divert attention from a failed raid that he ordered. And then brags about the applause setting a record of some sort.

  108. 108.

    Kropadope

    @Paul in KY:

    You can’t have your Panem overnite. Takes some years to get it set up.

    Also global catastrophe brought about by climate change.

  109. 109.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: We don’t know that he doesn’t.

    LOL re The Pretenders reference on The Simpsons. Chrissie is out on tour again, with Stevie Nicks and without.

  111. 111.

    Chris

    @Anya:

    I am going to agree that Obama’s people did a terrible job when they abondoned the 50 state strategy.

    Agreed. The thing the True Progressives tend to leave out is that Democrats winning outside of the all-blue enclaves tend to be less “left,” not more.

  112. 112.

    Kay

    @FlipYrWhig:

    These are the facts in NW Ohio. NW Ohio is urban and rural rustbelt. The two most powerful Democrats in NW Ohio are Sherrod Brown and Marcy Kaptur. Brown endorsed Clinton and Kaptur endorsed Sanders. Every single Democratic congressional candidate who has run in my district for the last 4 cycles was recruited either wholly in part by Marcy Kaptur. I give her credit for this. She recruits someone. She works.

    But here’s the bad part. We keep losing. We basically have the Bernie strategy in NW Ohio ( and I am broadly sympathetic with economic populism and have been since I was 14) and we keep losing.

    They have to explain to me why Sherrod Brown and Marcy Kaptur aren’t turning the tide in this corner of the state with economic populism because areas like this are supposedly the epicenter of this theory. Explain that to me.

    These are powerful Democrats! Economic populists! Almost the sole source of our candidate recruitment. Their candidates lose.

  113. 113.

    SFAW

    @Kropadope:

    The Biergarten Putz is just using the fundies for their votes, I don’t think he has any overtly proselytizing agenda.

    It’s not the religious background, it’s the subjugation of the “weak,” the undeserving, and the “groups that we don’t like” (e.g., wimmins, Jews) that is at work (for me). That it was a pseudo-religious structure/hierarchy is secondary (again, for me). And as Paul in KY hinted at, Gilead is much more attainable via shock and awe, Panem was just the culmination of a long series of unfortunate events.

    ETA: I agree that Bannonazi (assuming that’s whom you meant) does not appear to have any kind of overt religious zealotry, although I guess fascism and bigotry are quasi-religious.

  114. 114.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Kay: Probably it’s because The Establishment isn’t pulling out all the stops for them, because they fear threats to their establishmentarian ascendancy. Only way to know is to check midlevel staffers’ emails and see. :P

  115. 115.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @debbie:

    Gorka continues to be an asshole.

    Yikes, I’m just hearing him on Morning Edition. Don’t think I’ve ever heard him before. What a rude, pompous, patronising blowhard.

  116. 116.

    SFAW

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Only way to know is to check midlevel staffers’ emails and see.

    I’m sure Darrell Arson Trey Gowdy Pigface Chaffetz will get to the bottom of that — the security of the nation is at stake!

  117. 117.

    Chris

    @Kay:

    They have to explain to me why Sherrod Brown and Marcy Kaptur aren’t turning the tide in this corner of the state with economic populism because areas like this are supposedly the epicenter of this theory. Explain that to me.

    Simplest explanation: because most white people simply don’t care about economic populism the way they do racial/cultural populism.

    Of course, since that pretty much blows away their precious “economic anxiety” notions, you can understand why they’re not in a hurry to acknowledge it.

  118. 118.

    TriassicSands

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    The county is teetering on bankruptcy and is trying to balance the budget. Wood said they were to the point where jobs may have to be cut. He will propose a 2% payroll tax at next week’s fiscal court meeting. He blames prior fiscal courts for the budget crisis, not the Ark. But he said the Ark had not lived up to its promise.

    WTF? Haven’t these bozos learned anything from Sam Brownback? They need to slash taxes, especially on the wealthy (if there are any rich people in that county). That is the one guaranteed, sure-fire route to fiscal heaven.

    People just can’t learn anything, can they?

  119. 119.

    D58826

    @Kay:

    economic populism

    Hmmm maybe voters are a bit more complicated in how they vote and respond to a political candidate. Maybe ‘economic populism’ isn’t the beginning and end for these folks. Maybe there are ‘other things’ that motivate them. And remember progressive hero Russ Feingold lost also (twice).

    I don’t have any brilliant insight into what that ‘other thing’ is but the party better figure it out or they will continue to lose elections

  121. 121.

    evodevo

    @OzarkHillbilly: No … Noo…. Just pop on down the road to Corinth or Sadieville and spend your money … we will welcome you with laurels and hearty handshakes !!

  122. 122.

    SFAW

    @D58826:

    And remember progressive hero Russ Feingold lost also (twice)

    Well, losing his rematch with Johnson was directly caused by Hitlary not visiting WI every day week during the campaign. Apparently you did not get the memo about that. Consider yourself chastised.

  123. 123.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Chris:

    Simplest explanation: because most white people simply don’t care about economic populism the way they do racial/cultural populism.

    I wrote somewhere else that the argument that the white working class in the Midwest is swinging Republican because of deindustrialization and the (supposed) excesses of cultural liberalism _is itself 36 years old_. It doesn’t make ANY SENSE as a theory for why Trump won. It was a theory for why Reagan won. It was already ongoing. It’s been ongoing for two generations. That leaves two things to explain:

    1. What happened _recently_ that would provoke an acceleration of the trend _towards_ Republicans? (“Now that X happened, we need a guy like Trump to do something about it”)
    2. What happened _recently_ that would provoke an acceleration of the trend _against_ Democrats? (“Now that X happened, we just can’t afford a woman like Hillary Clinton doing something about it”)

    IMHO the most logical places to look are, for (1), the heightened visibility and activism of people of color and the new map of immigrants, and for (2), the character-based attacks like the email server nonsense.

    Because I highly doubt that people are actively thinking “Hmm, Hillary Clinton’s husband passed a trade treaty 20 years ago that affected my job 15 years ago, so when I get to the voting booth I’m going to take it out on her and vote for Donald Trump.” That’s projecting lefty logic onto right-wingers. They don’t think that way. They think things like “There sure are a lot of brown people around compared to how things used to be, and it looks like on the news sometimes they just start killing us.”

  124. 124.

    SFAW

    @evodevo:

    we will welcome you with laurels and hearty handshakes !!

    Now WHO can argue with that? But are you calling Ozark a Ni-CLANG?

  125. 125.

    TriassicSands

    @D58826:

    And remember progressive hero Russ Feingold lost also (twice).

    In a state that has elected both Scott Walker and Ron Johnson more than once.

    I don’t have any brilliant insight into what that ‘other thing’ is but the party better figure it out or they will continue to lose elections

    There is no defense against stupidity. You can’t craft an honest message if the people it is aimed at live in a world of delusion and wishful thinking.

    Go out and talk to some Trump supporters. Invariably you’ll discover that there was no message HRC or the Democrats could have come up with that would have broken through their stupidity and/or bigotry. Obviously, anyone who thinks that Hillary Clinton is more dishonest that Donald Trump has some serious problems. Apart from kidnapping them and filling out their absentee ballots for them, there isn’t much the Democrats could or can do.

    Our best hope in 2018 and 2020 is probably that Trump makes such a complete mess of things that even the dumbest voters — or at least some of them; many may be are unreachable — get the message. But that’s up to Trump and the GOP.

  126. 126.

    Kay

    @FlipYrWhig:

    You know what the biggest win in NW Ohio was? An African American, female, mayor of Toledo.

    I have all these conflicting facts to bring to Michael Moore! He needs to really dive into this thing and look at it because it’s not hanging together neatly.

  127. 127.

    FlipYrWhig

    @D58826: To make a sports analogy, I feel like the Sandersite critique is kind of like when football fans complain that the rival team is shutting down the well-paid receiving corps, so why the hell isn’t our coach running the ball? And it seems to make sense, for a while. Then you realize that your backs are injured and your o-line is crap, so regardless of how poorly the passing game is working, the fact remains that the team’s running game is undermanned, under-talented, and takes valuable time off the clock. Maybe what you need is to wait for a turnover.

  129. 129.

    SFAW

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Because I highly doubt that people are actively thinking “Hmm, Hillary Clinton’s husband passed a trade treaty 20 years ago that affected my job 15 years ago, so when I get to the voting booth I’m going to take it out on her and vote for Donald Trump.”

    Well, it might also be possible that they don’t ruminate about it on a daily/weekly/monthly basis, but when a demagogue brings it to the fore, they NOW have a “reason” as to why the economy sucks for them, and they’ll latch onto that “reason.” As in: “Ya know, I never thought about it before, but that guy makes a lot of sense. It MUST BE that my job making [tires/clothing/widgets] went away because of Washington, and [Shitgibbon] says he’ll fix all that, so I’m a-gonna vote for him!”

    Not rational, not reasonable, but understandable.

  130. 130.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Kay:

    You know what the biggest win in NW Ohio was? An African American, female, mayor of Toledo.

    “It works in practice, but does it work in theory?”

  131. 131.

    D58826

    @FlipYrWhig: And the opposing team knows that ‘your backs are injured and your o-line is crap’ so they don’t have to waste time defending for a running play, even if your team tries one.

  132. 132.

    SFAW

    @D58826:

    I thought it was Hillary’s e-mail server.

    Well, that, too, of course — it’s the baseline/underlying reason for all the world’s ills, so I neglected to give it its own individual [sic] mention. Thanks for keeping me honest.

  133. 133.

    FlipYrWhig

    @SFAW: But it doesn’t suck for them MORE than it sucked for them in 2008 or 2012. People didn’t get MORE economically anxious since Obama got reelected. IMHO the thing that explains Trump is that Trump promised to let loose cops and soldiers to kick the asses of Negroes, Mexicans, and terrorists, who’ve been getting away with their shit for too long. Everything else is what people say when they don’t want to admit that that was the reason.

  134. 134.

    D58826

    @TriassicSands: Yep. Saw one interview with an unemplyeed coal miner. He was reeling off all of Trumps lines about how Obama destroyed the coal mining industry. The mine this guy worked in closed in 1987 but it is Obama and the EPA’s fault. Now who was POTUS in 1987…… let me think. Begins with an R

  135. 135.

    FlipYrWhig

    @D58826: ‘zactly. Sandersites are basically complaining about leaving Beast Mode on the bench. There’s no Beast Mode, guys, he retired.

  137. 137.

    Kay

    @FlipYrWhig:

    My middle son, who is a member of a labor union and voted for Sanders in the primary, canvassed for the AA female mayor of Toledo. He literally had no idea who she was. I had to tell him she won.

    I don’t know- is this really a fool proof plan, the Sanders Plan? I have my doubts :)

  138. 138.

    FlipYrWhig

    @D58826: The fact that the Republican presidents who presided over the deindustrialization of the 1980s are NEVER EVER blamed for it is ironclad proof that no Republican voter is thinking about it in those terms. It’s an imaginative projection of the “Bill Clinton was a neoliberal disaster” argument from the left onto the electorate of the right.

  139. 139.

    D58826

    THius is just speculation and maybe gives the average non political junkie to much credit. The D’s have a philosophical structural disadvantage in that they are the party that believes in activist government and in government programs that can improve peoples live. When the promises fall short of delivering a pink unicorn and a house next door to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, it’s easy for the GOP to say see – it’s all the governments fault and the activist government promised by the democrats is a failure. Never mind that the GOP is actively sabotaging that government. The GOP paid no price for it’s obstruction over the past 8 years. Most folks are not political junkies and simply look at it as what has the government done for (or to) me lately. And the GOP is more than happy to push the ‘to’ part.

    It’s a bit like airbags in cars. It is hard to show, other than at a statistical level, that airbags save lives (i.e. the ‘for’ part of activist government) but it is easy to show a dead baby when an airbag deploys incorrectly (the ‘to’ part)

  141. 141.

    Paul in KY

    @FlipYrWhig: I think some of the terrorist attacks in Europe ramped up the fear with a segment of population that thinks the Repubs/Trump will put the whoop on them.

  142. 142.

    dww44

    @TriassicSands:

    Obviously, anyone who thinks that Hillary Clinton is more dishonest than Donald Trump has some serious problems. Apart from kidnapping them and filling out their absentee ballots for them, there isn’t much the Democrats could or can do.

    Anecdotally, my 9 year old grandson was very politically aware this past year and was not shy about letting his opinions known at school. Right before the election, he apparently was arguing with a classmate who was pro Trump and his 4th grad teacher pulled him aside and told him “You DO know that Hillary is a liar, don’t you”. My daughter, who’s a teacher herself, decided not to make an issue of this with her son’s teacher, primarily because she concedes her son can sometimes be a handful. They live in a strongly middle class suburb of a very large Southern city which went blue for the first time in forever last November. but not the area in which they live. Diverse, but still politically controlled by the white Republican establishment.

  144. 144.

    Chris

    @FlipYrWhig:

    @D58826: The fact that the Republican presidents who presided over the deindustrialization of the 1980s are NEVER EVER blamed for it is ironclad proof that no Republican voter is thinking about it in those terms. It’s an imaginative projection of the “Bill Clinton was a neoliberal disaster” argument from the left onto the electorate of the right.

    The industry of people projecting their own complicated ideologies onto bigots in order to make themselves look good while excusing an embarrassing reality of white politics in the modern age is yuuge.

    Republicans do this too, explaining to all who’ll listen that what these people are saying is really just a cry for help against capital-gains taxes.

  145. 145.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It lies some 30 miles south of Cincinnati, so if you stay in Indiana to Cincy and fuel up and eat lunch in Ohio you could drive to the “Ark” and back and never even need to get a tank of gas. Maybe you could buy a bottle of “holy” water at the ark just to pour it into a toilet… or not.

  146. 146.

    J R in WV

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    We came through Misery once, recently, and were shocked when a guy sat down at the booth next to us in the nice restaurant and fired up a cig! They don’t allow that here in WV, not healthy for the staff, who have to be there for their whole shift.

    So we won’t be planning to pass through again, it’s too big to just drive straight across without stopping. And, really, WV has a long way to get to the drive through without stopping place. But I live here, maybe I just have to say that? Dunno…

  147. 147.

    J R in WV

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Re: Gorka, you left arrogant and condescending. Otherwise, right on!

    From reading posts, he also appears to be ignorant of the things he is being pompous and arrogant about, which seems typical Republican to me.

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