Trump has not come out in favor of the Ryancare bill yet. If he comes out against it, then it’s probably dead.
I have no love for Trump, obviously, but it’s not clear to me that he will end up supporting this crappy bill. I just emailed the White House, asking him not to support the bill, saying that he promised something better than Obamacare and this is something much worse. I tried calling too but the line was busy. I’ll try again later.
It will be bad for Republicans politically if they pass this bill, but it will also be bad for millions of Americans. This is one case where I wish a motherfucker wouldn’t.
Update. I guess I’m too late.
Our wonderful new Healthcare Bill is now out for review and negotiation. ObamaCare is a complete and total disaster – is imploding fast!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 7, 2017
(h/t reader amk)
amk
too late, doug.
Hunter Gathers
Legislative incompetence is the defining characteristic of the modern conservative movement. Combine that with the fact that Trump steps on his own dick every fucking day and the odds of this passing are somewhere between ‘when pigs fly’ and ‘snowball’s chance in hell’.
Major Major Major Major
If the WH phone lines are busy just call the front desk at Mar-A-Lago. I hear you can get access to him there.
Regnad Kcin
@Major Major Major Major: that, plus $200,000 will get you a phone call
rikyrah
They will own this.
Lock.stock.and. barrell.
The pain and misery they will bring to MILLIONS.
THEY.MUST.OWN.IT.
hovercraft
@amk:
He may be cheer leading this right now, but starting today the media is combing through this thing and the benefits or lack there of are all they are talking about. Ryan’s plan to jam it through tomorrow before anyone gets a look at it is already a failure, the Freedom Caucus is balking, and the senate doesn’t have the votes.
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major: For the amazing low, low fee of only $200K you can have weekend access to not only Ambassadors, Secretaries of Cabinet level positions, but the POTUS himself!*
*Selfies with Ivanka ™ sold separately
cain
Yeah, looks like the bill needs to pass in order for people to wake up. It will only get worse from here on in. This is a total fucking disaster for those Americans who are on Medicare and require it to live or have a pain-free life.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
Gag.
Just called Diana DeGette’s (CO-1) office. She opposes the bill, but my call was to thank her and to encourage her to keep up the fight. Starting to wonder if when we call our Rep’s offices we should further ask them to ask their Repug “colleagues” why they are so hell-bent on killing us all. /rant/
Humboldtblue
Pity? Pfft.
As Howard Dean mentioned —
TriassicSands
I was just about to write that there was no way that Trump would “veto” this bill. He simply has no mind for policy and doesn’t care. He calls this POS bill “our wonderful new Healthcare Bill.” You have to be a real idiot to think this bill is wonderful and you can bet every penny you have that Trump has not read the bill and has no idea what’s in it.
On the other hand, Trump constantly says “A,” followed by “not A” and never even blinks at the stupidity.
It will be interesting to see his response when the CBO scores this POS. Will he accuse them of partisanship? That would be in character. Will he ignore them? Anything is possible.
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
They are doing their best to secure this anvil around their necks.
Trump admin signs on to House GOP’s ObamaCare repeal bill
By Jessie Hellmann – 03/07/17 10:38 AM EST
Trump admin signs on to House GOP’s ObamaCare repeal bill
© Victoria Sarno Jordan
The Trump administration on Tuesday formally backed the House GOP’s plan to repeal and replace ObamaCare, in a sign that the White House and lawmakers are working to get on the same page.
In a letter to Rep. Greg Walden (R-Ore.), chairman of the House’s health subcommittee, Health and Human Services Secretary Tom Price called the bill a good first step toward healthcare reform but noted that more would need to be done later.
“These proposals offer patient-centered solutions that will provide all Americans with access to affordable, quality healthcare, promote innovation and offer peace of mind for those with pre-existing conditions,” Price wrote in the letter.
Price praised the refundable tax credits that will help people buy health insurance and the proposed Medicaid reforms, as well as the bill’s changes to health savings accounts.
The Republicans hope to repeal ObamaCare through reconciliation, a special budget maneuver that is immune to filibuster and only needs 50 votes to pass in the Senate.
But Republicans can only use reconciliation to repeal parts of ObamaCare that have an impact on the budget — meaning they will have to try to pass other reforms later.
Price acknowledged that, writing that Trump’s goals to reform healthcare will require “more than what is possible in a budget reconciliation bill.”
Mike J
Three more threats against Jewish orgs this morning.
Another Scott
The only people the GOP cares about are their donors and their primary voters. Since, as Eric Cantor showed, they don’t really care about their primary voters (or only do to the extent that they get enough to come out and keep their seat), their donors set policy.
Therefore, the House will pass this bill (or something like it) – they don’t care about phone calls and so forth. They think it will all blow over so they think they can ignore the outrage (or hide from it).
If the Senate kills it, or Trump vetoes it, that’s fine – they can continue running on how horrible Obamacare is and keep their primary voters and donors riled up, without riling up enough people on the other side to actually throw them out of office. Kinda win-win in their eyes…
I’m all for letting them live in their fantasy world. Let them think they can do what they want without consequence. Realistically, they have the majority and if they want to pass something, they will. We have to scream and yell and fight them, to make it clear to lightly-attached voters that they are intentionally breaking stuff and harming people, and lay the groundwork to win races this fall, and in 2018 and beyond. That’s what it will take to reverse these horrible policies.
Cheers,
Scott..
Another Scott
@rikyrah: Cosign.
Cheers,
Scott.
burnspbesq
Are there three Republican Senators who give a damn about the people who trusted them? We’re about to find out.
Another Scott
@TriassicSands: As Donnie showed with the EO that put Bannon on the NSC, he can’t or won’t read what’s put in front of him to sign. If it reaches his desk, he will sign it. He’s the empty suit with a pen that the GOP congressional leadership has been wanting for ages.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
So, Trumpism, caring about the little white guy, turns out to have been another scam. With few exceptions, Trump will be content to rubber stamp Congressional GOP policy. In return he gets to play president, and collect his share of spoils in return for hooking up his cronies with Russian oligarchs.
Make Grifting Great Again.
Meanwhile WikiLeaks is churning out some CIA documents because they are angry at somebody, and desperately need to seem relevant again.
amk
@Humboldtblue: That’s a very good talking point (as well as truth). The dems should use it.
Major Major Major Major
I know that Trump is going to fuck over Ryan but hard one of these days. This bill is total shit, and its failure–if it failed because trump opposed it–would kill the GOP’s ability to legislate on any priority calendar other than Trump’s. It wouldn’t be the least savvy move he could make.
Plus it would help destroy Ryan. But it wouldn’t debase him, so maybe this won’t be Trump’s move.
ETA: I see that Trump has already come out in favor. Perhaps his mind will change once the senate starts to make it even worse. Perhaps not, and the GOP will kill thousands of Americans and destroy our health insurance system to give tax cuts to the rich.
WereBear
Everything, everysingleflippinthing, Republicans do is about leveraging people who already have wads of money lying around not pay any of it in taxes.
The average person hears “money!” but it’s a scam. That 3k will pay for how many months? And you probably have to come up with the money up front. Then again, all Trump voters love to be conned, that’s how we got here.
hovercraft
OT.
But Our new HUD Secretary, Be Carson tried to clean up the mess he left yesterday,
“There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships,” he said. “They too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land.”
Not surprisingly, these bizarre comments drew attention, because there’s no sensible comparison between those who move seeking a better life and people who are enslaved, shipped, and sold as property. On Facebook last night, Carson issued a statement that seemed to walk back his remarks, which initially seemed like a step in the right direction.
But around the same time, Carson appeared on a radio show, where he defended the idea that slaves are immigrants. When a caller to the show insisted “you can’t be an immigrant if you’re brought over here in chains,” the HUD secretary replied, “Yes you can, you can be an involuntary immigrant.”
For Ben Carson, “Obamacare” is like slavery, abortion is like slavery, and slavery is like immigration.
JMG
McConnell says he’ll bring the bill to the floor of the Senate for a vote as soon as it passes House. No hearings, no CBO score. Fix is in. He wouldn’t do that if he didn’t know he has 50 votes. The Republican Senators who whined about Medicaid will fall in line as always.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Doug!
@Mike J:
That’s close to home. Most of my colleagues are members of the Rochester JCC.
Lurking Canadian
@hovercraft:
There’s a pleasant irony in the fact that what saves healthcare for Americans who need it might be a Congressional bloc who thinks Ryan’s plan doesn’t screw them over enough.
Somewhere on Bizarro-Balloon Juice, they are screaming at the purity ponies “Don’t let the abhorrent be the enemy of the awful!”
lapassionara
@cain: Did you mean Medicaid? Or does it have some kind of negative impact on Medicare that I have not yet heard about?
GregB
Will Trumpcare cover complications of nuclear fallout?
lapassionara
PS I read yesterday that the Koch brothers have decided that congress has to act soon re repealing the ACA. That means, to me, that this has a strong likelihood of getting passed. Can’t disappoint their real constituents.
Major Major Major Major
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: isn’t that what obama said too?
Judge Crater
This bill is essentially “trickle down” healthcare. It’s like supply-side economics: give more money to the rich, and the poor and middle-class will have shorter waits at the emergency room where they get primary care. Throw in some “free market” bs and everything will be great.
Fair Economist
@burnspbesq:
I think it’s dead in the Senate. Cassidy won’t vote for it without a CBO score (which will stink), Collins won’t vote to defund Planned Parenthood, and Cruz won’t vote for what Paul has labelled “Obamacare 2.0” (Paul himself will fold like a cheap suit under pressure, as he always does.) That’s without even considering the 4 suspicious of canning the Medicaid expansion.
hovercraft
@burnspbesq:
No, but I’m pretty sure there are at least three senators who care about keeping their jobs enough to oppose this. We all know that more of their base despite their protestations rely on Obamacare than our side does. I know, I know, all those black and brown people sucking on the government teat, but math is hard, there are more white people in this country, and they draw more benefits than the rest of us combined.
WereBear
@hovercraft: It really is a nightmare we can’t wake up from.
Lurking Canadian
Holy shit. The Koch brothers is TWO PEOPLE. Out of FOUR HUNDRED MILLION.
The fact that this sentence can be written with a straight face shows just how far into the Gilded Age we’ve fallen. It is also the best argument for punishingly high marginal tax rates that I can imagine.
Mike J
@hovercraft:
So by the transitive property….Obamacare weighs the same as a duck,
Another Scott
@JMG: Part of the rush probably has to do with the Reconciliation calendar. They have to have certain things in place by certain deadlines or Reconciliation implodes and they can only try Reconciliation once per year.
But, it is true that their best chance of trashing Obamacare is to do it relatively quickly, so they’re trying to rush it through. I don’t think it means, though, that it’s impossible to stop in the Senate (though it was always going to be difficult for the reason you cite).
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
FWIW, Jen Rubin is scathing about Ryancare, and ends her column by quoting Schumer on the subject.
Это курам на смех
@TriassicSands: What is the CBO? Is that like the CBC? Set up a meeting.
Timurid
“A 3 and a 6? Sure, I’ll double down…”
They’re all acting as if 2016 was the last election ever.
lgerard
We should all be calling members of the “house freedom caucus” urging them to oppose the bill because it is socialism
pk
The difference between Trump and Obama is that Obama probably knew every aspect of his healthcare plan. Trump on the other hand knows nothing. I actually have no problems with Kentucky losing medicaid and the money going to insurance companies. Kentucky voted 66% for Trump. No coal jobs, no health care and call me in 4 years is just what the doctor ordered for Kentucky. Obama’s biggest mistake was trying to help people who loath him. It never works and it never will.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
Don’t forget why they’re insisting on using reconciliation to repeal PPACA — that’s how Obama’s bill originally passed. Yes, they are just. that. petty.
amk
of course, it’s freedumb. The poor ceo needs a better yacht and a bigger palace. The tax is just subsidizing those people.
amk
@hovercraft: this pos of uncle tom called obamacare slavery, ffs.
Major Major Major Major
@GregB: unfortunately not. Having a madman as president is now a pre-existing condition.
Lurking Canadian
@Mnemosyne: That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Not even Republican sense. They could have done away with the filibuster if they wanted to. I can only imagine that means there are at least ten squishy Republican Senators who wouldn’t go along.
Another Scott
@Mnemosyne: Point of order.
The Atlantic:
The Teabaggers are trying to use Reconciliation to kill Obamacare because they don’t have the votes in the Senate otherwise. And may not have the votes there anyway.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@Lurking Canadian:
Of course it makes sense — it’s petty revenge for the way the Republicans got outmanuvered by the Democrats in 2009. What is it about the Republicans that makes you think they’re not that childish and petty?
Just One More Canuck
@Mike J: and, therefore….
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: one, it’s because they don’t have sixty votes to pass it otherwise, and two, contrary to what republicans have gotten everybody to believe over the last eight years, Obamacare passed under regular order, not reconciliation.
ETA: but of course they’re going to say this is how it passed in the first place since it’s a convenient lie and nobody will call them on it. And, clearly, everybody believes it.
MattF
Just to note, for the record, that every single thing DJT has said about healthcare legislation is turning out to be a lie.
Mnemosyne
@Another Scott:
Again, that’s my point — the myth is that PPACA passed via reconciliation. Therefore, the Republicans MUST use reconciliation to repeal it, or their petty revenge won’t be sufficiently satisfying.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
Except it did NOT pass through reconciliation. that was how they contemplated passing the house version after Ted Kennedy died, the original senate version passed the normal way, and that is what became law, along with a second bill that had some other related stuff.
ETA: Sorry about the pile on ;-)
MattF
Just to note that every single thing that DJT has said about healthcare legislation has turned out to be a lie.
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
See my other two responses. It’s symbolic petty revenge. It’s what Republicans fucking LIVE for.
tobie
@lapassionara: The rush on having the Senate vote on the bill right after the House is to deliver a body blow to Dems by erasing Obama’s signature bill and healthcare legacy. It will be swift; it will hurt. They are hoping to discourage Dems and deflate their energy. We need to be prepared for this.
rikyrah
@Mike J:
you know that they are just pretending about these threats….says this White House.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
The Republican myth is that PPACA only passed thanks to reconciliation. Therefore, they need to use reconciliation to reverse it or it won’t “count.”
These are the same people who think that “radical Islamic terrorism” is a magical incantation that the president must say or else the bad guys win.
Shalimar
@Corner Stone: Ivanka probably charges her own fee for selfies, but I assume the $200k Mar-A-Lago membership comes with Ivanka nudes from Donald’s private stash. You are buying the opportunity to become his personal friend, after all.
Mnemosyne
I can’t believe that I’m having to try and convince people that the Republicans are childish and petty. Really?
MattF
Just to note, for the record, that every single thing that DJT has said about healthcare legislation has turned out to be a lie.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
I guess we suffer from being too, um literal, we need to embrace alternative facts, then we’ll begin to understand what’s going on. If Obamacare was enacted through reconciliation, then it only makes sense to undo it the same way.
The Thin Black Duke
@tobie: Oh, the Democrats are already prepared for this shitstorm, don’t worry. But, ironically enough, what the GOP doesn’t get is how much this abomination is going to piss off Republican voters.
randy khan
@JMG:
Alternatively, McConnell doesn’t think there’s a chance it will pass the House.
ET
I don’t know of Ocare is imploding but nothing can implode as fast as the Trump presidency is. We haven’t even hit day 100 yet.
amk
@Mnemosyne: People pushed back against the obamacare passed via reconciliation part in your original post, not the one you think.
tobie
@The Thin Black Duke: Thanks. You’ve lifted my spirits, and it’s my birthday and I don’t wanted to feel totally despondent today.
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: as a writer you must be familiar with the notion that if every single reader misunderstands what you wrote, the problem is not with the readers.
Shalimar
@The Thin Black Duke: I think the majority of them understand it is going to screw their voters too, and those voters are going to be angry about it, but A) Their voters will also be incredibly pissed off at them if they don’t pass something, and B) Republicans are hoping their voters will believe anything bad that happens to them was because of whatever Democrats said and did (it has always worked before).
Regnad Kcin
@Timurid: https://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007674
July 14, 1933
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT:
that’s called acid reflux, not healthy, especially in the long term
TriassicSands
@Это курам на смех:
No, it’s more like HBO.
Shalimar
@JMG: McConnell has to be aware that hearings and CBO score can only cost him Republican votes, not gain more. I don’t think it means the fix is in, just that he has no chance of passing whatever the House passes if he makes his members look bad with a debate about whether or not they should use lube when they’re screwing so many people.
The Thin Black Duke
@tobie: You’re welcome. Hey, I’m a cynical bastard who sees the glass of beer as half-empty most of the time, but I’m feeling reasonably confident that when Grandma is living at home because Medicaid is dead and the nursing home has closed, even the hardcore Trump voters ain’t gonna want to hear that it’s Obama’s fault. No, those pissed-off white folks are gonna want this shit fixed NOW.
clay
@Another Scott:
What are those deadlines, out of curiosity? It seems like delay delay delay would be the Dems’ best tactic.
Jeffro
@amk: I never really doubted he was going to come out in favor of it – in no instance has he ever done anything but support what is best for billionaires
Jeffro
@randy khan: he’s wrong … there are almost certainly enough Republican votes to pass this thing in the house , The question is will the senators, who have to represent whole states, get behind this abomination ?
Mike in NC
Shocked, shocked, I tell you to learn that the GOP health care plan is a total shit sandwich!
NorthLeft12
@rikyrah: I hate to say this, but from my perspective from up here in Canada, the GOP don’t seem to care and enough people in the US don’t care about the damage they are doing to those people who will lose their coverage.
There seems to be a significant shortage of empathy among these people. Unless the negative impact is happening directly to them, or someone very close to them THEY.JUST.DON”T.CARE.
NOTE: They have proven this time and again w.r.t. minority rights [specifically same sex marriage, BLM, mass deportations, etc.].
Major Major Major Major
@clay: I don’t believe any of it is delay-able by a minority, except insofar as the senate has limited bandwidth and gentlemen’s agreements are reached on what will and won’t be delayed as a result.
randy khan
@ET:
We haven’t even hit day 50 yet. It’s hard to believe, but true. (11 days in January, 28 days in February, 7 days in March = 46.)
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Corner Stone:
Are those like erotic photos or post-coital selfies? Asking for a friend…
hovercraft
For anyone who thinks Putin is having buyers remorse: from POLITICO
Kremlin-backed media turns on Trump
News outlets funded by Putin’s government rooted for Trump’s election but now relish the chaotic first weeks of his administration.
By Michael Crowley
03/07/17 05:06 AM EST
Kremlin-controlled news outlets used to root for Donald Trump’s election. Now they’re reveling in the chaos and division of his early presidency.
“Sessions Scandal: ‘U.S Headed to Constitutional Crisis,’” reads a March 3 headline on the website of the Kremlin-funded English language network RT.
“Immigrants See American Dream Fade in Wake of Surge in Hate Crimes,” Sputnik News, another English language outlet bankrolled by the Kremlin, reported the same day.
“America is in the grips of hatred,” the Russian television commentator Dmitry Kiselyov told viewers of the Rossiya 1 network on Sunday night. The popular host, appointed directly by Russian President Vladimir Putin, suggested the political discord could lead to violence in gun-friendly America — “a dangerous combination with free-flowing firearms,” he said.
It’s not that the Kremlin-controlled outlets which all but explicitly rooted for Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton last fall have changed their view of the New York mogul. It’s that Moscow’s main goal was always to undermine the U.S. political system, regardless of who is in the White House, experts said.
“The Russian government is savoring the severe damage to America’s international image a result of the tumultuous first weeks of the Trump administration’s tenure,” said Andrew Weiss, a former Clinton White House National Security Council official for Russian affairs.
Money well spent Vladamir, Russia won this round, time to up our game.
Aleta
Is anything set up — phone line, website, town meeting– so people can ask questions about the coverage for their issues? Somehow I doubt it. Perhaps the offices of Republican reps need to get phone calls asking for answers to specific questions by constituents.
randy khan
@Jeffro:
I guess whether there are enough Republican votes in the House depends on whether Ryan can enforce party discipline on the Freedom Caucus or can make enough changes to make them happy without losing 25 or so other votes.
hovercraft
@TriassicSands:
No STARZ, they are definitely all STARZ, the president told me they were all from central casting.
NorthLeft12
@Jeffro: Of course they will. If they don’t, they can fully expect to be primaried from the Right when their term is up. Again, these bastards JUST.DON’T.CARE.
Yarrow
@NorthLeft12:
A lack of empathy is one of the defining characteristics of Republicans. They don’t think anything is real unless it affects them or possibly a very close family member. Otherwise it’s all made up and not a real issue.
Lack of empathy is also one of the defining characteristics of sociopaths.
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
if it’s a myth, why repeat it in a way that implies it isn’t?
hovercraft
@randy khan: I know, I keep having to remind myself that it’s only just begun, I almost wish I still drank ;-(
Another Scott
@clay: I’m no expert. here’s what the House says.
Reconciliation has its own set of deadlines, but they’re written into the “instructions” on each relevant step in the process. The FAS has a CRS report on previous Reconciliation timelines (16 page .pdf). It has varied a lot. I don’t know the details of the “instructions” for this go-round.
If you believe the House link above, the total Reconciliation stuff has to be wrapped up in the House on June 15. Recall that Congress usually only “works” a few days a month, so that’s sooner than it appears. But since the Congress rarely completes work on the Budget any more, I’m not sure how hard a deadline that is.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Hunter Gathers:
Huh? Reagan and Bush got their legislative agendas passed, especially when it came to tax legislation. Got it done easily.
The Republicans are more excitable than a schoolboy at the prospect of repealing Obamacare, even at the expense of ordinary citizens. They also want to give Trump his first big legislative victory. It’s even money that they pass the repeal bill. And Trump will sign whatever they put in front of him.
Trump is a special kind of incompetent. But he is great at pretending that he has brokered the biggest and bestest deal that has ever been dealt. And then all he has to do is sign the final approved bill.
Tim C.
@Shalimar: This is the only real option they have given their coalition. The big question we will be asking soon is how resistant will the white working class be to the pain that is being directly inflicted on them. This isn’t something you can answer with polling right now, because 80% of the GOP simply doesn’t believe that anything bad will happen to them in this. And the ones who do get hurt have very very powerful internal incentives to ‘stay the course’ even when they are getting directly hurt. People die for stupid causes all the time, so I wouldn’t expect too much resistance, even in places like West Virginia and Kentucky. On the other hand, I could be wrong. Likewise, even with a good shift in opinion, the gerrymander means the GOP has to lose a *lot* of support to lose the house.
Keith P.
This Trumpcare bill contains death squads!!!
Major Major Major Major
@hovercraft:
Yep. Anything pro-Russia that Trump might do, other than the sanction lifting and the Crimea stuff that Russia already paid for, is just icing on the cake.
randy khan
@hovercraft:
I’ve always thought that Russia’s goal was not to install Trump, but to weaken the country. It wouldn’t have worked if Clinton had won (as they really didn’t understand how the country worked). When Trump won, though, they hit the jackpot.
? Martin
This is what you get when you substitute ‘what will piss off Democrats’ for every metric of what good legislation looks like.
gene108
@Mnemosyne:
Obamacare was passed via regular procedure. That’s why it took so long to get done. Democrats did not have 60 Senators, until Franken was seated, Kennedy’s interim replacement was seated, and Specter flipped.
The Republicans are doing this via reconciliation because they know they cannot get 60 votes to overcome a Democratic filibuster in the Senate.
It is the only shot at doing damage to Obamacare.
D58826
This is way OT but there have been a number of threads where free-trade/NAFTA/TPP were the hot topic.
This Politico article goes into a deep dive on the history/complexity of trade agreements like NAFTA/TPP. In short like health care its complicated.
Hint the ‘someone’ was a tall skinny guy, funny name, big ears
http:///magazine/story/2017/03/trump-tpp-free-trade-deal-obama-renegotiate-nafta-214874
schrodingers_cat
@randy khan: Republican obstruction and BS would be attacking her from the left, would have stopped her from getting anything done. It would be like Obama 2.0 still far better than what we have now.
cain
@lapassionara:
No, you’re right, I meant Medicaid.
Brachiator
@Yarrow:
Republicans don’t need empathy. They’ve got “principles.”
They believe in the free market fairy that sprinkles prosperity. They also fundamentally believe that government should not be used to collect taxes to promote the general welfare (except for wars), so social insurance or universal health insurance provided by the government is an evil that people must be protected from.
D58826
@gene108: IIIRC most of Obamacare was passed using regular order but there was a final enabling piece in 2010 that used reconciliation. Forget the details but it is a bit more complicated than either/or.
Another Scott
@randy khan: Putin’s main goal seems to have been to prevent Clinton from winning in order to have a chance at removing the Crimea sanctions. The only threat to Putin’s power is a crappy economy – the Rubble has strengthened from ~ 67/dollar to ~ 58/dollar since the election. If HRC had won, the trend certainly would have gone the other way.
The speeding up the longer-term goal of weakening NATO and the EU is a benefit, also too, but that’s not the main reason why he wanted Clinton to lose. The sanctions were and are hurting him.
Cheers,
Scott.
rikyrah
@lapassionara:
it will bankrupt Medicare by 2024, while Obamacase extended the life of Medicare.
NobodySpecial
FWIW, I think Obamacare is now the new Roe v. Wade, which the GOP ran against endlessly. If they repeal it, they’ve got nothing left to publicly target and fundraise off of. It’s easy to snow their base into believing that the only reason it didn’t get repealed was evil Democrats, so they don’t have to do much of anything and they still keep their base.
hovercraft
@D58826:
Stop lying everyone knows that for all his campaign promises, Obama was just another free trading corporate democrat who threw workers under the bus. He did not undo free trade, kick China out of the WTO and order every worker in America to join a union, he was no friend to the working man or woman.
germy
Origuy
@randy khan: Putin is also playing to his domestic audience. He’s saying that Western democracy is dysfunctional and leads to chaos, using Trump and Brexit as prime examples. Russians fear disorder more than just about anything except a rise in the price of vodka.
Major Major Major Major
@D58826: it wasn’t an ‘enabling’ piece, it was mostly tweaks like removing the embarrassing bribes that ended up in the senate bill, iirc. Plus student loan reform.
rikyrah
@tobie:
Deflate our energy?
The hatred I feel for these people burns brighter everyday. And, I do mean complete and utter hatred.
rikyrah
@Shalimar:
They have never owned it all.
They own EVERYTHING.
No Democrat to blame.
hovercraft
@Brachiator: @Yarrow:
Remember when Obama nominated Sonia Sotoymayer, and he spoke of her “empathy” being an asset on the bench, the right went nuts, it was a huge deal, a disqualify-er, the MSM of course followed them down the rabbit hole debating whether empathy was a good quality in a jurist. Good time, but no empathy is definitely not a republican trait. That’s why they only support gay marriage when they find that someone in their family is gay,they are people who lack imagination, so anything outside their personal experience is incomprehensible. They all claim to love Jesus, and yet they are the least Christ like people out there, they believe in the the punitive strictures of the old testament, not the compassion of the new one.
Fair Economist
@NorthLeft12:
The incentives on that are unclear. The Republicans are calling this “Obamacare 2.0” (0.5 is more like it, as Krugman says) and so those voting *for* it may get primaried from the right as well.
gene108
@rikyrah:
There’s always a Democrat to blame. Always.
Whether people buy it or not is a different issue.
D58826
@Major Major Major Major: As i said I forgot the details. Just that it is inaccurate to say Obamacare in total was passed using reconciliation.
frosty
Just made my calls to useless Senator Toomey and HFC Rep Perry in opposition to repealing and replacing ACA and vehement opposition to the current bill. For whatever good it will do.
D58826
@germy: that’s gotta hurt!!
Brachiator
@randy khan:
Sadly, this looks exactly like what they wanted.
ArchTeryx
So, how much chance that a middle aged, chronically ill poor person with a PhD can claim asylum status in Canada?
Not snark. Survival.
hovercraft
@germy:
Not just Freedom Works, they are all pissed off. Even though the Koch’s fund Freedom Works, the hoi polloi may yet stop this “travesty”
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
Golde oldies like the cornhusker kickback which I’m told Sean Hannitty still references on a regular basis when slamming the ACA.
MJS
@hovercraft: Of course, this could also just be cover for their puppet. There are a lot of dimwits who would buy the “Look, Russia’s state sponsored media is critical of Trump. So how can it be possible that they supported his candidacy?”
germy
@hovercraft:
Oh my god… something even more horrible than the ryan plan?
Jeffro
@NorthLeft12: @Fair Economist:
I’m not understanding how anyone in the GOP could even be “primaried from the right” anymore…is that even possible?
Will they not be happy until their entire membership is full of Dave Brats, Louie Gohmerts, and Steve Kings?!?
Spanky
Looks like we soon won’t have a Trump impersonator to kick around anymore:
Please don’t take Spicey from us!
Jeffro
@germy:
Wouldn’t that be just a full repeal, no provisions for covering anything that O-care covered?
Or would “worse” mean actively hunting down libruls and making them ill? Because frankly, the Trumpov administration is already doing that…
germy
@Spanky: they should hire Anthony Atamanuik. I think he’s a more subtle and funnier interpreter of the madman.
Brachiator
@hovercraft:
Great callback! You’re totally right on this.
Good time, but no empathy is definitely not a republican trait. That’s why they only support gay marriage when they find that someone in their family is gay
Enhanced Voting Techniques
TPM sounds like it’s questionable whether Ryancare makes it out of the House with all the conservative groups lining up against it because it’s not evil or viscious enough.
I think Obmacare is turning into another Abortion Rights issue – something that all True Conservatives denounce as a tribal indicator but never actually repeal.
Jeffro
@Brachiator:
At this point, it almost feels safe to say that the parties have sorted themselves out psychologically in addition to everything else…those with empathy to any degree, or an orientation towards collaboration, etc = Democrats. Those out for themselves, those motivated primarily by spite = Trump Tea Party Republicans.
hovercraft
@germy:
Maybe we’ll be back to bartering chicken like we did in the olden days, or per Chafettz you can trade your phone for treatment. The possibilities are endless.
@Jeffro:
With the budget cuts in the draft floated last week, we would have fewer food inspectors, fewer regulations and monitors for our water air and food, so they are actively seeking to make us sick, the only downside is once again most of us liberals are in blue states where we will still have some protections, for now, until president drumpf sues us for not letting people to pollute more in our states and poison us, after all just look at how well it’s worked in Flint, it’s still going on and it’s been three years.
rikyrah
@The Thin Black Duke:
this is truth.
pk
@germy:
I believe the new plans requires doctors to personally kick the poor in the guts before prescribing any medication.
MJS
@hovercraft: I guess I’m becoming paranoid, but I view this as just so much posturing. I expect almost every single one of these HFC members to ultimately vote for this bill under the guise of “It’s the best we could do that would pass the Senate.” Alleged Senate hardliners will find a way to reverse course, likely using the “Obamacare is imploding, we need to do something” line.
Lurking Canadian
@Mnemosyne: Sorry for the delay in replying. Lunch date.
It’s not that I don’t think they are that petty. There is no limit to how petty they are.
It’s just that (as I understand it) there are things they want that they can’t do with reconciliation. Lifetime caps. Pre-existing conditions. Sale across state lines. I don’t think even Republicans would give up a chance to really stick it to their enemies if they thought they had it.
The Moar You Know
@ArchTeryx: If you’re under 50, actually pretty good so long as you’re working.
If you’re over 50, forget it unless you can show that you can pay all your own living and healthcare costs. Forget all the Crown colonies (Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand). They’ve made it quite clear that they’re not going to become America’s nursing home. I looked into this a little too late…Trump got elected right before my 51st birthday. Fuck.
PIGL
@hovercraft: I have seen no evidence, in the 50 years that I have been somewhat aware of American politics, of Republicans ever accepting or being charged with any responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Much as would relish the death over a slow fire of Every Single Republican Official, elected or otherwise, the enthusiasms of the electorate are for quite different things.
hovercraft
@PIGL:
They are better liars and the media has been beaten down for the past 50 years as being liberal and cowards that they are have instead of telling the GOP to fuck off and stop lying, they retreated to on the one hand a=on the other hand reporting to show their neutrality, facts have a liberal bias. When the hit really hits the fan though, the WWC overcomes their fear and dislike of the democrats long enough to vote them in to right the ship. Which means that on some level they recognize that democrats actually fix shit, while the GOP destroys them, unfortunately, culturally they identify with and like what they espouse, even if they never deliver on it.
D58826
@Lurking Canadian:
I read somewhere that if the Senate parliamentarian rules in their favor they can use reconciliation for everything. This of course twists reconciliation completely out of shape but that’s OK they are republicans..
If the parliamentarian rejects the request they can simple replace him/her until they find one more how to say it ‘open to reason’.
clay
@pk:
No, that’s the Republican version of Planned Parenthood.
catclub
@WereBear:
yep.
The max refund/credit is $4k for 55-64 year olds, … but their policies will cost $10k, no matter what their income, in the GOP plan.
for a 26 y.o the policy might be only $3k with a $2k refund/credit. GOP will amp up the allowed age gradient in premiums, ACA has a low fixed maximum penalty for age.
And of course you have to buy the plan first before you get the refund/credit.
catclub
@PIGL: I disagree. the elections of 2006 and 2008 did. UNfortunately, the US public has the memory of a flea, and re-elected the GOP in 2010.