• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

Even though I know this is a bad idea, I’m off to do it anyway!

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

There is one struggling party in US right now, and it’s not the Democrats.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

Everyone is in a bubble, but some bubbles model reality far better than others!

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

Books are my comfort food!

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

An almost top 10,000 blog!

The words do not have to be perfect.

No one could have predicted…

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

Mobile Menu

  • Four Directions Montana
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2024 Elections
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Anderson On Health Insurance / Destroying GINA

Destroying GINA

by David Anderson|  March 11, 20171:41 pm| 98 Comments

This post is in: Anderson On Health Insurance, C.R.E.A.M.

FacebookTweetEmail

Stat News notes another very important health policy bill that is not PPACA repeal but it could create massive problems in the labor market.

bill moving through Congress would allow companies to require employees to undergo genetic testing or risk paying a penalty of thousands of dollars…HR 1313, was approved by a House committee on Wednesday, with all 22 Republicans supporting it and all 17 Democrats opposed. It has been overshadowed by the debate over the House GOP proposal to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act, but the genetic testing bill is expected to be folded into a second ACA-related measure containing a grab-bag of provisions that do not affect federal spending, as the main bill does.

Right now, genetic information can not be requested nor required by an employer. This is because of GINA.  GINA is a very important and under discussed law that prohibits discrimination on the basis of genetics.

Under Title II of GINA, it is illegal to discriminate against employees or applicants because of genetic information. Title II of GINA prohibits the use of genetic information in making employment decisions, restricts employers and other entities covered by Title II (employment agencies, labor organizations and joint labor-management training and apprenticeship programs – referred to as “covered entities”) from requesting, requiring or purchasing genetic information, and strictly limits the disclosure of genetic information.

What this House bill would do is allow genetic testing to be part of the “wellness” programs. Current law and regulation from the Obama administration allows for wellness programs to be “voluntary” even if non-participation costs someone thousands of dollars in increased premiums or deductibles. General “Wellness” programs don’t move the needle on costs nor health. The only ones that work are specific and targeted programs for certain high cost chronic conditions that are amenable to management.

So employers would gain two significant pieces of information. The first would be if people elect to participate. They would get genetic profiles with highly probable high cost diseases flagged. The other, and probably far more dangerous to people would be if they elect not to participate. If the cost of non-participation is high, that is a very valuable signal that the non-participating person has a damn good reason to not participate. And now they have demonstrated that they are “not a team player” which is really a proxy for a high likelihood of having a high probability of having a high cost genetically influenced condition. So people with genetic conditions will either not be hired or hired at lower wages than they otherwise would have received as their employers and thus their insurers now know with less uncertainty future medical expense obligations.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Long Read: The KKK ‘Imperial Wizard’ Murdered by His Cat-Hoarding Wife
Next Post: Saturday Open Thread: Beginning to Catch On, At Last? »

Reader Interactions

98Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    March 11, 2017 at 1:50 pm

    GINA info from Wikipedia

    Passed the House on April 25, 2007 (420-3)
    Passed the Senate on April 24, 2008 (95-0) with amendment
    House agreed to Senate amendment on May 1, 2008 (414-1)
    Signed into law by President George W. Bush on May 21, 2008

    But that was during the halcyon days of the W era when we were worried about the creation of manimals.

  2. 2.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 11, 2017 at 1:53 pm

    So people with genetic conditions will either not be hired or hired at lower wages than they otherwise would have received as their employers

    Saving money is serving God.
    A fat bottom line is pleasing in His sight.

    It’s consistent with their priors, I’ll give them that.

  3. 3.

    Lapassionara

    March 11, 2017 at 1:53 pm

    If this isn’t fascist, what is.

    I have RA, which started while I was still working. My grandmother had it, so I am sure it is genetic. The treatments, which are effective, cost $5000 a month, this year. Next year, who knows.

    This government is vile to the max. Can we stop calling Republicans ” conservative”? They are radicals, bent on destroying the good aspects of our country to enrich their friends.

  4. 4.

    Hunter Gathers

    March 11, 2017 at 1:54 pm

    @Baud:

    But that was during the halcyon days of the W era when we were worried about the creation of manimals.

    Between you and me, I’ll take the manimals.

  5. 5.

    Peale

    March 11, 2017 at 1:55 pm

    So I don’t see the reason why republicans changed? Did Koch buy a testing center? Rick Scott? They don’t move unless donors tell them to.

  6. 6.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 11, 2017 at 2:00 pm

    @Peale: You can shape your workforce to keep the cost of ADA compliance, and insurance, for starters, to a minimum.

    Welcome to the age of the yellow-gene contract.

  7. 7.

    Nora

    March 11, 2017 at 2:03 pm

    I’m having trouble understanding how they can sell it as anything other than a government-ordered invasion of privacy. How can they even pretend it helps the ordinary employee? What do you get in return for letting your employer know such potentially damaging things about you?

    And as I understand it, the proposed law also allows your employer access to ALL your medical records, including mental health treatment. If that doesn’t raise red flags, I don’t know what will.

  8. 8.

    oldster

    March 11, 2017 at 2:04 pm

    Okay, so how do we fight back?

  9. 9.

    Baud

    March 11, 2017 at 2:06 pm

    @oldster: Not sure how this is allowed under reconciliation, so Dems should be able to filibuster it.

  10. 10.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 11, 2017 at 2:07 pm

    @Nora:

    What do you get in return for letting your employer know such potentially damaging things about you?

    The offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license.

  11. 11.

    shortribs

    March 11, 2017 at 2:08 pm

    There’s an information security aspect to this as well given the lackluster security measures many companies seem to take towards personal information.

  12. 12.

    gene108

    March 11, 2017 at 2:09 pm

    @Nora:

    And as I understand it, the proposed law also allows your employer access to ALL your medical records, including mental health treatment. If that doesn’t raise red flags, I don’t know what will.

    One way to cut down on insurance claims, pay cash for services, so there is less of a paper trail for your employer to track.

    This is going back to the pre-HIPPA days.

  13. 13.

    Ken Pidcock

    March 11, 2017 at 2:09 pm

    I would love to read a discussion of the impact that the availability of genetic testing will have on insurance markets.

  14. 14.

    smintheus

    March 11, 2017 at 2:09 pm

    My understanding of this bill is that if an employee refuses to permit genetic testing and release of the info to the employer, the employer can charge a significant part of the company’s health benefits to that employee, if they offer health insurance, and if they don’t offer insurance they can take the employee’s refusal as an excuse to cut their pay. So basically it’s a means for employers to force down wages and benefits.

    That’s in addition to being a bludgeon the companies can use against any employee who doesn’t fall in line with whatever the company wants.

  15. 15.

    ??‍? Martin

    March 11, 2017 at 2:12 pm

    About 99% sure mandatory genetic testing violates California’s constitution.

  16. 16.

    gene108

    March 11, 2017 at 2:13 pm

    I wish Congress would extend this provision to themselves. They are, by and large, old men with histories of heart disease, cancer, and high blood pressure. We, the People, who are their employers have a right to know.

  17. 17.

    Ruckus

    March 11, 2017 at 2:14 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    You can shape your workforce to keep the cost of ADA compliance, and insurance, for starters, to a minimum.

    And even more, if I’m understanding properly. You could test before hiring and not hire based upon genetics. Say race for example. Or expensive healthcare issues that may never arise. IOW this republican bill would mean that only perfect Aryan people (you know, those of the white persuasion who will work and desire to be the only people left on earth) need be hired, none of those lessor beings (all the rest of us).

  18. 18.

    Nora

    March 11, 2017 at 2:14 pm

    @gene108: Brilliant suggestion. It falls in line nicely with the suggestion that Congress critters have to live under the same health insurance regime they mandate for us.

    Not that either is going to happen, of course.

  19. 19.

    debbie

    March 11, 2017 at 2:15 pm

    If my bosses can know about my DNA, why can’t know about my vegetables’ GMO?

  20. 20.

    PaulWartenberg

    March 11, 2017 at 2:22 pm

    This is, basically, another version of the purity-eugenics obsession that drives the racist far right.

    Part of this is an attempt to drive away those with genetic health issues from the workplace, but also allows for fine-combing the DNA records to begin sorting people by their “perfect” genes.

    How much of this will reveal how much Irish/Italian/African/Persian/Chinese/Russian/French/Seminole blood you got in your family tree?

  21. 21.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 2:23 pm

    IIRC, California has its own state-level laws that ban employers having access to employees’ medical information, including genetic information. This is another area where there’s going to be a major battle between the federal government and the states.

    We have a wellness program at the Giant Evil Corporation but, thanks to California’s laws, it’s all carrots and no sticks (unless you’re a smoker — that’s the one situation where they’re allowed to charge you more).

  22. 22.

    JCJ

    March 11, 2017 at 2:24 pm

    @gene108: Right, but the fact that they are often old means they have gotten past the age where several genetic disorders become apparent. I see this as a way to avoid hiring women with genetic predisposition to breast cancer (BRCA1,BRCA2) and anyone with a predisposition to colorectal cancer (Lynch syndrome). The possibility of looking for sickle cell trait comes to mind as well.

  23. 23.

    PaulWartenberg

    March 11, 2017 at 2:25 pm

    @oldster:

    Convince the Courts this genetic “sorting” is Unconstitutional under the 4th, 9th, and 14th Amendments.

    If not, get everyone to quit their jobs. I know that’s gonna suck for paying mortgages and car bills and stuff, but if 140 million people drop out of the workplace over this, you’re going to get a couple of panicking CEOs over this.

  24. 24.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 11, 2017 at 2:27 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    This is another area where there’s going to be a major battle between the federal government and the states.

    Federal pre-emption is only an appellate decision away.

  25. 25.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2017 at 2:29 pm

    Didn’t Canada like just not do this?

  26. 26.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 2:31 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    The appellate court it would go to is the Ninth Circuit, the most liberal court in the country. This could drag out well beyond Trump’s term.

  27. 27.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 11, 2017 at 2:35 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Even the Naughty Ninth is pretty much bound by stare decisis

  28. 28.

    Aleta

    March 11, 2017 at 2:37 pm

    1. Another attack on civil liberties. More are in the works.
    2. Discrimination against a person for a health condition that doesn’t exist now and might not ever.
    3. Based on an estimate of probability for the chance of inheritance, a calculation that will change as time goes by.
    4. Based on an understanding, which is constantly changing, of the combined roles of genetics, early environment, limited but high level exposure vs accumulated exposure, nutrition, air, water, or different genes in combination.
    5. While at the same time Republicans are eliminating pollution controls, eliminating data collection and monitoring of exposed individuals by the EPA, limiting the work of scientists and public health/medical workers who provide data to understand diseases.

  29. 29.

    Chyron HR

    March 11, 2017 at 2:38 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    A fat bottom is pleasing in His sight.

    And why not?

  30. 30.

    greennotGreen

    March 11, 2017 at 2:38 pm

    We’re marching to a faster pace/ Here comes the master race!

    Republicans don’t know anything about science, and this bill is further evidence. Sure, some diseases can be solidly predicted from DNA, but others cannot since presentation may be dependent on other genes, epigenetics, and environmental factors. Does a company decide not to let someone go (ostensibly for other reasons) because he or she carries the gene for cystic fibrosis? Doesn’t matter if that person doesn’t reproduce with a partner who is also a carrier or who does but terminates an affected fetus…which is none of the company’s goddamn business.

  31. 31.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 2:39 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    IANAL, but I’m pretty sure it’s not as hopeless as all that.

  32. 32.

    JCJ

    March 11, 2017 at 2:42 pm

    @greennotGreen: I think this is exactly where this could lead.

  33. 33.

    ruemara

    March 11, 2017 at 2:43 pm

    @Chyron HR: The pearly gates have a sign of “No Fat Chicks” over them.

  34. 34.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 2:48 pm

    @ruemara:

    When did St. Peter start working for the Trump Organization?

  35. 35.

    PatrickG

    March 11, 2017 at 2:49 pm

    It’s pronounced “Jyna”.

    (Someone had to do it #SorryNotSorry)

  36. 36.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 11, 2017 at 2:53 pm

    @greennotGreen:

    which is none of the company’s goddamn business.

    It is if it’s Hobby Lobby, or some other Godly firm… and if it isn’t now, it will be, a couple of justices from now.

  37. 37.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 2:55 pm

    I managed to trip and twist my knee while jumping up to let the cleaning people in.

    I leave for Disneyworld tomorrow night.

    Crap.

  38. 38.

    Tazj

    March 11, 2017 at 2:59 pm

    @JCJ: Since I have such a strong family history of breast cancer that’s exactly what I first thought of.@Nora: Yes, and it’s not as if employers don’t already have access to just about everything about you.

  39. 39.

    Chet Murthy

    March 11, 2017 at 3:01 pm

    @Nora:

    I’m having trouble understanding how they can sell it as anything other than a government-ordered invasion of privacy.

    I agree with your top-line assessment of the law, but feel I must point out that in fact, it’s the opposite of what you’re saying, in the details. The proposed law is about FREEDOM. FREEDOM for -employers- to invade their employees’ privacy as a condition of employment (or lower health insurance benefit costs). FREEDOM for -employees- to -voluntarily- offer their genetic information to their employers, in exchange for employment (and cheaper health insurance).

    This proposed law is all about FREEDOM.

    By way of analogy: for years, many, many pro hockey players played w/out helmets. But almost all supported league-wide rules requiring helmets. It’s a classic prisoner’s dilemma problem. As is the GINA evisceration proposal.

    http://www.econport.org/content/teaching/modules/NFG/Hockey.html

    P.S. Why am I being a stickler on this point? B/c it isn’t a govt-ordered -invasion- of our privacy. It’s a government -abandonment- of its duty to protect us from the viciousness of this collective-action problem. It’s what government is FOR: to act for the collective good, when individual incentives won’t achieve the best outcome.

    Of course, Rs believe that there are no such situations.

  40. 40.

    Major Major Major Major

    March 11, 2017 at 3:02 pm

    Preet Bharara got fired.

  41. 41.

    Chet Murthy

    March 11, 2017 at 3:03 pm

    @Ken Pidcock: Gotta believe, in the absence of various protections (as in Obamacare), it’ll -destroy- ’em.

  42. 42.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 11, 2017 at 3:07 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Yup, got a WAPo news alert about it. Dolt 45 does like to say “Your Fired”.

  43. 43.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    March 11, 2017 at 3:09 pm

    Wait…

    I thought conservatives were all about the workin’ man, freedom, small government, freedom and freedom. You’re tellin’ me this isn’t the case?

  44. 44.

    El Caganer

    March 11, 2017 at 3:14 pm

    So it hasn’t even been 10 years since an overwhelming number of Republican legislators voted for this law and a Republican president signed it. There really is no depth to which they won’t sink.

  45. 45.

    hovercraft

    March 11, 2017 at 3:16 pm

    @Mnemosyne:
    Oww, that sucks!!

    Hopefully it’s not too bad, and doesn’t mar your vacation with your nieces, you’ve been so looking forward to it.

  46. 46.

    Keith P.

    March 11, 2017 at 3:16 pm

    @PatrickG: OK, so it’s not just me then!

  47. 47.

    lollipopguild

    March 11, 2017 at 3:17 pm

    What used to be science fiction is now reality. Thanks to the right wing in this country.

  48. 48.

    Lapassionara

    March 11, 2017 at 3:17 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Arrrrgh! I use ace bandages for my knee, which helps a lot. Also too, ibuprofen. Good luck!

  49. 49.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    March 11, 2017 at 3:17 pm

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    The right kind of freedom.

  50. 50.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 3:23 pm

    @hovercraft:
    @Lapassionara:

    The worst part was that I couldn’t do a thing for it for an hour afterwards, because I had to take the cats to the groomer to get their nails cut. I have now iced it and I’m laying on the couch with it elevated. I can’t take ibuprofen until G finishes his conference call lest Keaton decides to make a cameo appearance.

    I am very, very, very annoyed with myself right now.

  51. 51.

    hovercraft

    March 11, 2017 at 3:28 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    He fired all the Obama holdovers he had asked to stay. Too much independence or his effort to remove Obama’s “deep state”?
    He does know we can see him, right, capricious doesn’t even begin to describe this asshole.

  52. 52.

    Yarrow

    March 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    This is crazy and these people are evil. Individuals don’t always want to know about their own genetic profile. They should be able to choose what they want to do with their own bodies. Oh….wait. The Republicans already don’t like it when people do that if they’re women. Hey, men. Welcome to “no choice” world.

  53. 53.

    J R in WV

    March 11, 2017 at 3:33 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    My doctor recommends naproxen as the best NSAID, then ice your knee, and when it isn’t being iced, wrap it with an ace bandage. Take plenty of Aleve with, and I think the best wraps are the newer ones that stick to themselves, but not to you. They can’t be reused, but you can leave them on for a couple of days.

    Last resort, get a wheelchair from the hosts, use the disabled facilities as much as possible.

  54. 54.

    Aleta

    March 11, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    @Mnemosyne: That sucks. Hope it quiets down soon. I use a knee brace when I twist mine, the stretch kind with a hole cut out for the kneecap. It seems to the cut the pain. Ice and elevation for short periods of time?

  55. 55.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    @J R in WV:

    Naproxen makes me sick to my stomach, unfortunately, but I’m fine with ibuprofen. I’m doing round 2 of icing right now. I may have some bandage in the bathroom — if not, I’ll have to send G out for some.

  56. 56.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 3:38 pm

    @Aleta:

    I do have a pull-on brace somewhere — I’ll have to see if I can find it. The downside to having the cleaning people come is that they move things.

  57. 57.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2017 at 3:41 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Ice and anti-inflammatories, stat!

    :-(

    Rest it and take it easy. Best of luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  58. 58.

    hovercraft

    March 11, 2017 at 3:42 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Sorry about the first response, I didn’t realize that he’d been fired for failing to offer his resignation yesterday after both Twitter and his little gnome had assured him he would be retaining his job.

  59. 59.

    Mickee

    March 11, 2017 at 3:48 pm

    Besides the fact that–in terms of protected personal health info–there should be nothing viewed as more personal than your genetic profile, this inexplicable handout to employers jeopardizes research and therapeutic development in genetic diseases. I work for nonprofit that is focused on research in a rare genetic disorder. We have fought for years to get a comprehensive genetic test to enable earlier diagnosis and to pave the way for genetically-targeted therapies. We encourage families to get tested and to share (unidentified) genetic data with researchers in order to accelerate our understanding of this disorder and the development of treatments/cures. This law will have a chilling effect on medical research in genetic disorders like ours. If families know their data can be compelled by an employer for god only knows what purpose, they are going to be less inclined to get testing or to participate in data collection efforts aimed at therapies.

    Also, don’t understand why this bill is being framed as part of corporate ‘wellness’ programs. According to a number of large-scale studies, these programs are largely ineffective and of limited value. However, they are a great backdoor to allow your employer to know more about your HIPAA protected personal health info than they would otherwise be legally allowed to. Is that the covert reason for adding genetic testing to wellness program language? If so, what is the overt rationale used to sell this bill? In what way would genetic data -assuming it is accurate, which is a huge assumption since genetic testing is not currently regulated- be used to support wellness? If you smoke, wellness programs can help you quit. If you drink too much, wellness programs can direct you into treatment. If you have a pathogenic/potentially pathogenic genetic mutation, what exactly is a wellness program going to do for you? Help you stop geneticking?

    I believe this is a ‘follow the money’ issue. Employers and insurers likely want this info to make decisions about coverage or even employability. Everybody and their brother seems to be enamored with ‘big data’ hype right now and wants genetic (and individual patient level health) info. Your private genetic info is a commodity that corp America wants to make money off of. It would be interesting to see which GOP donors back this legislation.

  60. 60.

    Aleta

    March 11, 2017 at 3:49 pm

    (Don’t know if this will help, but) Sometimes the quadriceps muscles above the knee (front of the leg, going up to the hip) contract in a different way for a sudden unexpected movement. They do that to put a slow brake on the leg to protect it from a force. That contraction stays around and keep pulling on the knee. There’s 4 or so little spots you can rub to relieve the pain if that’s what’s happened. I’m going to look up a picture of where they are and link it in case it helps.

  61. 61.

    Lapassionara

    March 11, 2017 at 3:51 pm

    @Mnemosyne: stretch panty hose make a serviceable substitute until you can get an ace bandage or the equivalent. Ask me how I know.

  62. 62.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 3:53 pm

    @Mickee:

    I’m wondering if this is a quid pro quo payback to the big insurers in return for destroying PPACA. Sure, they’re going to lose millions of customers, but they’ll be allowed to refuse to cover people with pre-existing conditions again, so it’ll all work out for them in the end.

  63. 63.

    patrick II

    March 11, 2017 at 3:53 pm

    1313 is the appropriate resolution number for this legislation. Only 666 would be better.

  64. 64.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2017 at 4:01 pm

    @Aleta: This isn’t the same, but I’m reminded of some things I learned about my knees.

    We often go on (day) hiking trips once a year or so – we might put in 15+ miles a day. I used to be fine with it for the first day or so, then I’d have these increasingly horrible pains in the outsides of my knees going down hill. Something would tighten up and it would be excruciating. I tried all kinds of things to try to figure out what the problem was (walking down faster to try to reduce the nervous tightening-up, wearing knee braces, hiking with a cane/walking pole, etc., etc.).

    I eventually figured out that something in the area around my knees was simply too tight. I started doing leg presses a few weeks before the trip (nothing too extreme at the start but eventually building up to a few hundred pounds). It stretched out whatever was tight and I didn’t have any problems at all after that, even going 18+ miles one day in the Alps.

    I know everyone is different, but I think we all get stiffer as we age – especially after we get over 50. Finding ways to stretch stuff effectively is really important, especially since most physicians have no understanding of how muscles work and interact (they don’t show up on X-rays, after all) and can’t really offer any sensible advice about it.

    Good luck Capt. Mnemo!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  65. 65.

    Gretchen

    March 11, 2017 at 4:02 pm

    @PaulWartenberg: Ancestry will tell you how much of your dna came from Africa, Asia, Europe, etc. for their $99 test. So this definitely could be compared to asking what race you are on an application.

  66. 66.

    Yarrow

    March 11, 2017 at 4:05 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Follow the Rest, Ice, Elevation, Compression rules and add in whatever anti-inflammatory you can stand. For ice it’s 15-20 minutes on, 15-20 minutes off, repeat. After an hour give it a rest and let your skin recover for a bit. Then start over. This method allows the cold to penetrate and get where it needs to go. Remember the ice doesn’t go right on the skin–it can damage the skin. If you’re using ice cubes in a ziploc, put a relatively thin dish towel around the bag. Some gel frozen packs have their own protection.

    The general recommendation is ice for 24 hours. If you can, go ahead and continue it off and on today and tomorrow morning. It should help. A brace or wrap is a good plan if you’re seeing improvement. It’ll provide support while you’re on your feet all day.

    If it isn’t getting better by this evening/tomorrow morning you might want to visit an urgent care and get it seen. You don’t want to have actually broken or torn something and be using it all week at Disneyworld and end up with a much worse injury.

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 4:10 pm

    @Yarrow:

    I know all of the icing/injury protocols because I tore my ACL a decade ago. In that knee. So I’m having an extra freakout right now that I managed to wreck the repair, even though it seems unlikely.

    I’m going to try RICE for the rest of the day and see how it goes. Worst case scenario, my nieces get to take turns pushing me in a wheelchair at WDW — fun for the whole family! ?

  68. 68.

    Yarrow

    March 11, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    @Another Scott: Physical therapists and the like should know about stretching and its importance. Also useful is foam rolling. It can break up knots in muscles like nothing else. Combining both can really help keep things under control.

    Mnem–the stretching is another good point. Depending on where exactly you’re feeling the pain you might want to do some stretching–hamstrings, calves, quads. And while you’re in FL and on your feet all the time you might also want to make sure you have a stretching routine at the end of the day. Remember stretching works best when your muscles are warm. Stretching before you start your day or workout can result in injury if you push too hard when your muscles are cold.

  69. 69.

    Yarrow

    March 11, 2017 at 4:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Sounds good. The wheelchair would be fun. Maybe you’d get to go to the front of the line?

    I hope it’s nothing and just a tweak.

  70. 70.

    Ohio Mom

    March 11, 2017 at 4:13 pm

    I’m under the impression that most genetic testing is rather pricey. The two times people in my family underwent rather limited genetic testing, the doctors involved had to have a good reason for ordering it, and we needed the insurance company’s advance approval. It wasn’t done on a whim.

    If this horror becomes law, out of whose pockets does the payment for the testing come? The employee’s health insurer? Then rates will need to go up to cover all the new, additional testing.

    Those same Republicans who are always telling us we spend too much on health care because we don’t comparison shop and we go in for unnecessary procedures, and who are against mandates, are now supporting a mandate for completely unnecessary testing.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 4:14 pm

    @Yarrow:

    Stretching before you start your day or workout can result in injury if you push too hard when your muscles are cole.

    I know this is a typo, but you have to admit, it’s very apropos right now.

    I hurt my knee.
    OMG! What happened?
    Well, I was getting up off the couch to answer the front door …

  72. 72.

    Yarrow

    March 11, 2017 at 4:15 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I know! I just fixed it, but LOL. Very appropriate for this blog.

  73. 73.

    m.j.

    March 11, 2017 at 4:15 pm

    We really have driven far into Nazi territory. Maybe they will use the test to determine genealogy?

    They might be surprised by their own results, but there seems to be nothing Republicans cannot excuse when it concerns themselves.

  74. 74.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    March 11, 2017 at 4:22 pm

    Seriously, are most conservative voters really thinking this is a good idea? I mean, it’s one thing to call a turd a doughnut, but it’s another to actually eat the damn thing.

    I can’t imagine the libertarian wing is digging it.

  75. 75.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    March 11, 2017 at 4:23 pm

    @m.j.:

    Maybe they will use the test to determine genealogy?

    As an adoptee (and long-time dead relative collector) currently up to my eyeballs in the world of genealogical DNA, let me promise you, it’s not as easy or as accurate as the ads make it out to be.

    False positives abound because of the way recombination works.

  76. 76.

    debbie

    March 11, 2017 at 4:29 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I am sorry to read this. I hope your diligence in icing (and I’d keep icing it all day long without pause) will turn this into a nothingburger.

  77. 77.

    Yarrow

    March 11, 2017 at 4:30 pm

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): Most conservative voters probably have no idea this is even happening.

  78. 78.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2017 at 4:31 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Yup. While they seemed to get a lot right, 23&Me got my ear lobes and at least one other thing wrong. And their description of my background doesn’t match what I think I know (I should be 25% Greek on my father’s side, but it doesn’t show up in their breakdown… Yeah, I know, but I don’t think that’s it.).

    It also says that I’ve got one marker for CF (two are needed for CF to occur), but I don’t think there’s any history of it in our family. So I don’t know whether to trust that, either.

    Presumably it’ll get better over time, but I wouldn’t bet money on the results of these mass-market tests right now.

    I put off trying 23&Me for a long time due to concerns about how the data could be misused. Obamacare and GINA and the rest gave me some confidence that I wouldn’t be cutting my throat. Now, even though I don’t think this bill will pass, I’m feeling more reticent about doing it…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  79. 79.

    mai naem mobile

    March 11, 2017 at 4:35 pm

    I don’t understand this. Does the GOP think that they or their kids and grandkids aren’t going to be subjected to this? Orrin Hatch has a grandkid with Juvenile Diabetes. The Rep Cathy Rogers from Washington state has a kid with Downs. Sarah Palin has a kid with Downs. Paul Ryans dad died young from an MI. Joe Scarborough has a son with autism. Dolt 45s dad had Alzheimers. Mark Kirk had a stroke. This is not the master race here.

  80. 80.

    Aleta

    March 11, 2017 at 4:36 pm

    @Mnemosyne: In case you want to try this…
    The 2nd image down shows two places above the knee that would feel sensitive when you find the right spot. (The top image shows 4 places on the other muscles in the quad group as well. ) http://www.triggerpointtherapist.com/blog/knee-pain-trigger-points/vastus-medialis-trigger-points-quadriceps/ It’s OK to gently rub any spot you find that is tender. If it feels good, you can rub harder, but no more than 10 or so strokes. Then do another place. But stay away from the knee itself.

    You can stroke (going the same direction) across a tender spot with your thumb (except if hurts your thumb). You also can use the end of a wooden spoon or small flashlight or cane, etc. Or roll a ball around on a spot. I found that rolling a kitchen rolling pin up and down my front and outside thigh can be pretty sweet.

    You want to not overdue it, better to do it for a few minutes and then a few hours later for a few minutes. Stop if anything makes it hurt more. Again, stay away from the knee itself, You can also try spots on the back thigh. The sole of the foot is a good place too, especially after your plane trip and after walking every day …. Sometimes I’ve disappeared a knee pain entirely by pressing into areas on the bottom of my foot around on a metal ball etc.

  81. 81.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    March 11, 2017 at 4:36 pm

    @Yarrow

    Well, no one has ever accused Republicans of being well informed.

  82. 82.

    Aleta

    March 11, 2017 at 4:43 pm

    @Another Scott: That’s interesting about the downhill part, and your discovery. The first time I had knee pain was on the downhills during a hike in the Pecos. I guess there is muscle contraction to brace and steady the leg, especially the knee, during the downhill.

  83. 83.

    Aleta

    March 11, 2017 at 4:54 pm

    @Mnemosyne: One more idea, because of your trip. If you’re still in pain, compression tights if you can’t find a knee brace. If painful, a hiking stick or two or cane to take some pressure off the joint walking around DW. (A runner I know, in his 70s, runs with two lightweight metal (collapsible) hiking sticks, which he says prevent damage to the knee joint.)

  84. 84.

    WereBear

    March 11, 2017 at 4:58 pm

    @J R in WV: Last resort, get a wheelchair from the hosts, use the disabled facilities as much as possible.

    He’s a genius! Those kids are gonna LOVE you!

  85. 85.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 5:01 pm

    @debbie:

    Thanks! I have it compressed and elevated right now, and I’m letting the ice packs freeze back up before another round of cold. I can hobble around on it a bit, so I’m hoping that resting the rest of the day and icing it will do the trick. Fingers crossed!

    @Aleta:

    I was able to find one of my compression knee braces and put it on over leggings (sometimes it’s handy being a woman!) I can tell that my hamstring is cranky on that side, so I may try some gentle rubbing and/or stretching later.

    G is trying really, really hard not to say I told you so right now, because I also managed to injure myself right before our Hawaii trip a couple of years ago (although that was a broken toe, which SUCKED ASS!)

  86. 86.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 5:04 pm

    @WereBear:

    What, they didn’t think this trip was free, did they? ??

    I’m hoping that following the RICE protocol for the rest of the day will help. If not, it’s time to rent a scooter at the gate!

  87. 87.

    Aleta

    March 11, 2017 at 5:07 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I seem to get injuries before a trip. The wheelchair idea is great, even if just for tomorrow in the airport. Solves the extra weight from carrying bags going onto a sore knee. The hotel might have a cane to borrow.

  88. 88.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    March 11, 2017 at 5:09 pm

    @Another Scott: I’m not a fan of 23&Me. I went with Ancestry, because largest user base for using the results for genealogical research, and also transferred my data to GEDMatch for the cool additional analysis tools (Chromosome painter! Multiple different ethnicity calculators!) and to Promethease for the medical.

    Since you’ve already tested, you might want to consider Promethease. I’m geek enough to really like their report, which is compiled from the appropriate SNPedia articles.

  89. 89.

    Mnemosyne

    March 11, 2017 at 5:12 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Tell me more about GEDMatch! I was slightly disappointed in my Ancestry results because my largest one was Western European. Way to really narrow it down there, guys!

  90. 90.

    Gindy51

    March 11, 2017 at 5:35 pm

    Gattaca here we come!

  91. 91.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    March 11, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    @Mnemosyne: A couple of quick links:

    Comparing My Ancestry.com Results to GEDMatch This is an older post, but it’s still a good example of the difference.

    A video on GEDmatch basics from Angie Bush

    The admixture (ethnicity) utilities are in the free part of GEDMatch. Play around in there, have fun, and don’t take it too seriously. The result you get out of each one is dependent on the reference population it compares to. We had a great time with them; my husband still sends me photos of Orkney captioned “your homeland”.

    And please, anyone who has tested anywhere, log in occasionally and check your messages. Even if you don’t do genealogy. There are a lot of adoptees using the DNA services for blood parent searches. I was extremely lucky to have a second cousin match; you could make some previously-unknown third cousin very happy just being willing to talk a bit about your grandparents.

  92. 92.

    Another Scott

    March 11, 2017 at 6:57 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Thanks for the pointer. It looks interesting.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  93. 93.

    Gretchen

    March 11, 2017 at 7:17 pm

    @Ohio Mom: It depends on what it’s for, but the price is coming down very rapidly, cheap enough that I had some done on my dog to make sure he wasn’t a pit bull. 23andme will do ancestry for $99, and Ancestry+health for $199 – that will give you genetic diseases and such. And a wellness program buying in bulk would be far cheaper, and worth it to the insurance company to screen out all the bad risks, which, depending on how deep you go, probably includes all of us.

  94. 94.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    March 11, 2017 at 8:08 pm

    @Gretchen: One of the reasons the testing was so expensive was the practice of patenting the genes. Until the SCOTUS decision in 2013, only the company holding the patent could test for a particular gene.

  95. 95.

    Bill Arnold

    March 11, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    Re the original post, looking at the text of H.R.1313. I’m having difficulties finding the reading (allowing mandatory genetic testing) described. Could be just ignorance; can somebody who knows the law have a look? It (1313) interacts with other parts of the U.S. Code in ways that are not clear to me.
    Also, would this bill allow mandatory full genetic sequencing, “just to be sure”, and if the results are anonymized, are there any significant safeguards on the anonymization, which is even in practice known to be a pretty-much-impossible problem, and would the employer have full access to the data? I’m sure there are naive people who might trust their employer with the data, e.g. perhaps the owner-family-employees in a family-owned company. Me, not so much.

  96. 96.

    Ohio Mom

    March 11, 2017 at 8:51 pm

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: That makes sense. My BRCA test was in the very beginning of 2013, and while I don’t remember the exact amount, it was pricey. So I followed that court case with some interest, as they say.

  97. 97.

    Another Scott

    March 12, 2017 at 10:13 am

    @Bill Arnold: Snopes seems to have a good discussion of HR 1313:

    On 8 March 2017, the House Committee on Education and and the Workforce moved forward with a bill that has been criticized by both geneticists and disability advocates for allegedly placing the privacy of workers’ genetic records at risk.

    H.R. 1313 states that employers may provide additional insurance premium discounts to workers who take part in their companies’ voluntary wellness programs. Once enrolled, the bill says, businesses are allowed to collect “information about the manifested disease or disorder of a family member” of participating employees.

    The bill, which was sponsored by committee chair Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC), does not in and of itself require employees to enroll in such programs. But it notes that according to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, employers could reduce annual health insurance premiums by up to 50 percent for employees who did take part.

    […]

    A 50% change in price is an awfully big stick…

    Foxx is an ideologue, her background is in education, and it’s not clear what, if anything, she really knows about the issues around wellness and genetics testing. She has a horrible voting record. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if this was something pushed by ALEC with her just being the vehicle, but I don’t know.

    It’s apparently been forwarded to Ways and Means. Lots and lots of stuff “dies in committee” – maybe this will too, but we can’t assume it will.

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    pseudonymous in nc

    March 12, 2017 at 9:52 pm

    Genetic profiling kills private insurance. It might not kill it instantly, but once you have that kind of information shaping pools — where you have a predisposition to conditions, but not a timeline for when they’ll manifest themselves — then you open yourself up to greater correlation of risk. Daniel Davies talked about this a while back:

    If you’re correlating your risks and reducing the size of your pools, then you need to hold more capital against possible tail outcomes, and this can jack up your costs to the point at which it’s uneconomic to provide insurance in the first place. But on the other hand, you can’t go back to the old pooled equilibrium where the genetically fit are cross-subsidising the unfit, because that’s no longer a stable market; you’re open to a competitor taking away your fit customers.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • HumboldtBlue on Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Baltimore Bridge Updates (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:45pm)
  • scav on Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Baltimore Bridge Updates (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:44pm)
  • Jay on Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Baltimore Bridge Updates (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:43pm)
  • Harrison Wesley on Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Baltimore Bridge Updates (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:43pm)
  • artem1s on Humpty Trumpty (Open Thread) (Apr 17, 2024 @ 9:42pm)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning
Proposed BJ meetups list from frosty

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8
Virginia House Races
Four Directions – Montana
Worker Power AZ
Four Directions – Arizona
Four Directions – Nevada

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
Positive Climate News
War in Ukraine
Cole’s “Stories from the Road”
Classified Documents Primer

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Political Action 2024

Postcard Writing Information

Balloon Juice for Four Directions AZ

Donate

Balloon Juice for Four Directions NV

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2024 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!