Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

The revolution will be supervised.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

The willow is too close to the house.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Sunday Afternoon Open Thread: People with No Fvcks Left to Give

Sunday Afternoon Open Thread: People with No Fvcks Left to Give

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May they continue to be an inspiration to us all…

Reader Interactions

163Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    Obama looks like he just had a meeting with Danny Ocean for a very lucrative job…

  2. 2.

    geg6

    Barack has been KILLING it with his style. Saw a pic with him in jeans and a leather jacket the other day and he looked smokin’ hot. Saw the above pic yesterday and decided that for them only, I could swing both ways.

  3. 3.

    debbie

    That people are still angry at Jane Fonda almost 60 years later proves this country will never move ahead or solve its problems. No one who feels aggrieved is willing to let go of their anger and outrage.

  10. 10.

    Corner Stone

    Tom Price just looks like the embodiment of “lying asshole”. With the sound on mute every gesture he makes and every time his mouth moves it just feels like he is lying and being condescending.

  13. 13.

    Corner Stone

    There was no “individual market” before the ACA. They would take your money and then deny you coverage anytime you tried to use it.

  14. 14.

    Shinobi42

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: My parents gave me the down payment on my home, and payed my full tuition. Every time someone is like “all it takes is hard work.” I am like “lol, no.”

    People who think they deserve those kinds of things are the absolute worst. At least acknowledge that you are fucking lucky. But no, I know too many people in similar circumstances who are pretty convinced they earned it. So fucked up.

  18. 18.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Shinobi42: it’s on a very different scale, but it’s the same as Willard and the Lady Ann talking about how they had to struggle to make it in grad school with nothing but Tuna Helper and the $50,000 (well over a quarter million in 2012 dollars) nest egg Papa George had set up for them

  20. 20.

    hovercraft

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Subtle little things like the “Mom jeans”, make him look like your regular suburban Dad, she could dress with more flair, but he was noticeably staid, and even goofy. Nothing too fitted or to make him look too fly. Like I said the changes are subtle, he can now be as hip and fly as he wants to be. Remember they were burned by “terrorist fist bumps”, dirt off my shoulders, and stupid other hip things that sent the media into a frenzy.

    ETA: Yes anyone can pay back 225K if your Mom pays you exorbitantly, buys you a condo, and then you move in with grandma. Easy peasy!

  21. 21.

    Eric S.

    @debbie: I’m 45 years old and Vietnam was essentially before my time. Yes, it was still going on in my first few years but I have no recollection. Still, my entire life society has been refighting those battles over and over and over again.

  24. 24.

    hovercraft

    @trollhattan:
    But Ann told me those were very hard times, they lived in a small apartment, they had no help, it was just the two of them, the horror.

  25. 25.

    Oatler.

    “I hate Jane Fonda because she’s a… I don’t know, my parents raised me to hate her, Hey there’s a John Hughes marathon on AMC today!”

  26. 26.

    raven

    @Oatler.: “Traitor bitch” is what you are searching for. Remember, vets voted overwhelmingly for Trump. What do you expect from such an astute group?

  29. 29.

    Eric S.

    @Shinobi42: No doubt. My parents paid a fair porition of my college tuition. But before that they chose to buy a house in a good school district when my mother was transferred to Chicago when I was 7. Those public schools educated me and prepared me for college. Public unviversities prepared me for a career as a programmer. A friend, whose father had been an executive with Zenith, gave me the connections for my first job.

    I’ve done my work as well. I did well in school. I learned and adopted my parent’s work ethic and hsve always tried to apply myself fully. I’ve continued to learn from colleagues and have kept connections in the industry.

    I’ve done well but I had help and step up all the way.

  30. 30.

    WereBear

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m always running into similar defenses: “Yes, I had good food, a big house, medical care, private school, tutoring, and all tuition paid at an Ivy League college I got into as a legacy… but after that, I was on my own!”

  31. 31.

    pamelabrown53

    @geg6: #6.

    I really enjoyed “Grace and Frankie”. Sorry that I’m caught up on all the episodes. My only (minor) criticism is that the writers sometimes rely too heavily on stereotypes for the quick laugh.
    Been wondering what they’ll do with “House of Cards” now that Trump is pee. Thinking about rewatching the original British series because it’s evil was just so delicious.
    Keep those Obama pix coming folks; they certainly provide a respite.

  34. 34.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @WereBear: the underplayed part of the 47% tape was, IMHO, Willard fairly hissing with rage as he spat out “I inherited nothing!” Son of CEO-Governor-cabinet secretary, Cranbrook School, Harvard… got it all with the sweat of his manly brow.

    and trump got elected in no small part because he doesn’t have the affect of the trust fund baby he is. It’s a funny old country

    @Ruviana: I did not, thanks

  36. 36.

    Eric S.

    @raven: Not arguing that at all. My father served and has never wanted to discuss it. I just feel like we’ve not moved beyond Vietnam and the whole cultural revolution of the time. Not as much as I would expect at least.

  37. 37.

    pamelabrown53

    @hovercraft: #24.
    Heh. Wasn’t the apartment sooooo small that they ate their meals on an ironing board…or did I imagine that tidbit?

  39. 39.

    john fremont

    @debbie: Yep. As Chauncey DeVega put it on his blog, Rush Limbaugh and other conservatives were gushing with praise over the Mother Emanuel church having it in their hearts to forgive Dylan Roof.OTOH, white people get to indulge in their grudges as long they want whether it’s Jane Fonda, 9/11, etc. As DevVega pointed blacks are always expected to take the high road and forgive.

  40. 40.

    debbie

    @Eric S.:

    That’s because we haven’t, which was the point I was trying to make. A not insignificant percentage of the resentment that swept Trump into office stretches back to Vietnam.

  41. 41.

    cain

    I’ve been enjoying the comments on reddit on this post

    Basically, another article on stupid that are Trump voters. We are all now all Balloon-Juice posters.

  42. 42.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Eric S.:

    I’m 45 years old and Vietnam was essentially before my time. Yes, it was still going on in my first few years but I have no recollection. Still, my entire life society has been refighting those battles over and over and over again.

    American politics will stop being about Vietnam, birth control, and the civil rights act when… I want to say when we stop putting the Boomers in charge, but that only gets rid of Vietnam.

  43. 43.

    Baud

    @pamelabrown53:

    Wasn’t the apartment sooooo small that they ate their meals on an ironing board…or did I imagine that tidbit?

    Their car was too small to accommodate their dog.

  45. 45.

    pamelabrown53

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: #4.
    What doesn’t make an iota of sense to me is how she could have 220k in student loans when mom could afford to buy her a condo and give her a job w/ matching salary at Mom’s non-profit. There’s a big chunk of smell test fail with this story.

  46. 46.

    Major Major Major Major

    @cain:

    We are all now all Balloon-Juice posters.

    I could see Barack fitting in here.

    @pamelabrown53: student loans as a long-term low-interest debt vehicle for, say, an MBA (which costs that much) make a lot more sense than paying cash in many situations. Probably also an element of making the kid pay her own way for once, but mom just can’t help herself and gives her a condo anyway.

  48. 48.

    Elmo

    WRT Jane Fonda, what she did really was hideous. There are ways of protesting an unjust war without actively supporting the killing of American troops and doing propaganda for the other side.

    I get that she has expressed regret. Okay. But I’ve never seen one of her movies, and I’m not sure I ever will. My Dad wasn’t in-country – he was blue-water Navy – but he did SAR in the South China Sea for young men the North Vietnamese had shot down, and those young men were Fonda’s countrymen when she posed on a North Vietnamese antiaircraft gun.

    Sorry. It’s visceral, and tho it’s faded, it’ll never go away.

  49. 49.

    pamelabrown53

    @Baud: #43.
    Yes!!! And while we mocked them mercilessly, I think it might have had an impact on some lean Romney voters, just like I think if Trump and republicans gut regulations for pet food safety and nutrition. That might be one of the few things to turn pro-Trumpers.

  50. 50.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Elmo: I actually agree with this. My parents in law were in reëducation camps after the war and I’m sure that if they even have an opinion on her (a gnat’s fart at most) it is not a positive one. Tippi Hedren did more to help the Vietnamese people than Fonda ever did.

  51. 51.

    PaulWartenberg

    To the Juicer Writers:

    I am finishing up a fantasy short story, hopefully tonight. Can I ask ahead to see if someone can quick-beta-read it? The deadline is March 14th.

  53. 53.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:
    But the dog loved it !
    Though he may have showed his pleasure by evacuating all over the roof, or was that late night embellishing the tale?

  55. 55.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @pamelabrown53: the condo was purchased at auction for 13K, so I imagine must’ve needed some sweat equity put back into it. There’s other stuff in the original article, though, like her complaining about the cost of she and her boyfriend maintaining two cars in DC. I’ve never been to DC, much less lived there, but would a young couple need two cars? Another missing factor is her now husband’s income. But the whole clueless spiel about “empowerment” is grating. Not everybody’s grand/parents can (or would) let an adult couple live rent free for a few years, just for starters.

  57. 57.

    pamelabrown53

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: #55.
    Thanks for filling me in on the back-story. While not as flagrant as I first surmised, I agree that there still is more than a whiff privileged entitlement to buy their “empowerment” story.

  59. 59.

    Kristine

    Every time I see a photo of the Obamas, I choke up a little because memories when we had grown-ups in the WH and I want them back. They look happy and relaxed and they did their time in the barrel and yes, I know no 3rd terms and I know they have Plans, but damn….

  62. 62.

    hovercraft

    ETA: Response is for @JPL

    @hovercraft:
    So she can say she pulled herself up by her own Gucci bootstraps. All you people saying it’s hard to get out from under college debt now have an example of how easy it is if you just work hard. She didn’t have anything handed to her, just like Twitler, she did it on her own!

  65. 65.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    So Steve King went full on white nationalist this afternoon on Twitter.

  67. 67.

    Russ

    So happy they’re enjoying life. As for all the haters, they’re still hating. Sure must really suck being a hater, oh well life goes on.

  68. 68.

    Another Scott

    @Major Major Major Major: Haven’t read the story, so I don’t know the specifics.

    But there was a time in the late ’70s, early ’80s when there were really perverse incentives in the guaranteed student loan business. CDs spiked at something like 16%, but students could get no-demonstrated-need subsidized student loans (with payments that wouldn’t begin until long after graduation) for a few percent. Lots of people (not a majority, of course) took advantage of that (buying CDs with their student loan money) – when inflation was 10+% there were all kinds of self-help articles in the grocery store magazine bins telling everyone how to make money in times of high inflation, and that was often one of the “tips”. Eventually, the rules were tightened up, interest costs went up, eligibility rules were tightened, etc.

    Dunno if they were in that boat, but this just illustrates that even rich people can and do take out loans if they figure a way to make money doing it. In this case, if you didn’t need the money for school, it was genuinely free money.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  71. 71.

    Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire

    I did two tours of Iraq just to be able to afford to go back to school, so condo girl can go fuck herself with a rusty fucking fork.

    We will never elect a Vietnam vet as president. Tooooo much baggage, good or bad.

    The Obamas are KILLING it! I want all of Michelle’s outfit.

  72. 72.

    raven

    The Truth About My Trip To Hanoi

    People have no idea how widespread the anti-war movement became inside the military in the late 60’s early 70’s. She may have done some dumb things but it doesn’t compare the fucking slaughter our government perpetrated on the GI’s and the Vietnamese.

  73. 73.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    If he’d been in charge the last 100 years, women would still be clamoring for the vote, exclusionary covenants would still be enforced and there would still be literacy tests and poll taxes for blacks.

  74. 74.

    Aardvark Cheeselog

    @Elmo:

    There are ways of protesting an unjust war without actively supporting the killing of American troops and doing propaganda for the other side.

    Those ways were tried. They didn’t work.

  76. 76.

    Lapassionara

    I just realized what the haters hate about Obama, not just that he is black, but that he COOL and black. OMG, that must get on their last nerve!

    I miss them so much. ?

  77. 77.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    people are making a big deal out of this tweet

    Preet Bharara‏Verified account
    @ PreetBharara
    By the way, now I know what the Moreland Commission must have felt like.

    The Moreland Commission– google tells me, so I’d appreciate any input from those who know more– was an anti-corruption investigation in NY state politics, that Andrew Cuomo shut down because it was getting uncomfortable for him? What, if any, restraints are there on a former US Attorney to talk about things he knows?

  78. 78.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Lapassionara: Obama, not just that he is black, but that he COOL and black

    Remember Karl Rove describing Obama as the cool guy who gets all the girls at the country club dance? I always wondered how much of that was calculated and how much was that Hans Molelman-looking turd-blossom motherfucker showing his couldn’t-get-laid-in-high-school ass

  79. 79.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @pamelabrown53:

    Nah – I’m at home. Wish I was in an airport. I’m headed to the gym, then grocery.

    My next trip isn’t unto May (Sydney, Daintree/Cairns and a scuba liveaboard in the GBR/Coral Sea). Def Italy again October.

  80. 80.

    Juice Box

    @Eric S.: We’re still fighting the Civil War which featured the same sides as the English Civil War (1645ish). Nobody ever gives in.

  82. 82.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I always wondered how much of that was calculated and how much was that Hans Molelman-looking turd-blossom motherfucker showing his couldn’t-get-laid-in-high-school ass

    That second part, for sure. Karl looks like a buyer to me….

  83. 83.

    Shell

    Mrs O always looks great,

    But to be honest, I never thought most of the gowns and evening wear while First Lady really did her any favors.

  84. 84.

    Baud

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Vietnam is like literally what a good many of your generation (the white men at least) thinks of as their defining struggle.

    It’s like millennials and Pokemon Go.
    .
    .
    (I’m kidding…)

  85. 85.

    Steeplejack (tablet)

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The bit I like from the Business Insider article:

    She deferred [her student loans] for two years after earning her MBA, but soon they became impossible to avoid. She began educating herself on personal finance—​particularly through the books of Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman—​and started devising a plan to pay back her loans as quickly as possible.

    So her expensive MBA education didn’t teach her anything about personal finance, and/​or she couldn’t extrapolate from business finance to her own situation. Well done all around.

  86. 86.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Major Major Major Major: ietnam is like literally what a good many of your generation (the white men at least) thinks of as their defining struggle.

    and yet, for probably two thirds of the country, the Iraq War is a thing that happened, but they can’t quite remember what happened, or why

    oh good lord, MSNBC is giving a countdown clock to its Wilmer-Hayes town hall tomorrow

  89. 89.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Lapassionara: It galls them so much that Barack Obama was elected President NOT because he was blah, but because he was the most qualified candidate available, both times. That whiteness wasn’t considered a qualification. That actual merit was taken into effect.

    Then he proceeded to show that those who voted for him were right about him.

  90. 90.

    bemused

    @Lapassionara:

    Green with jealousy. They haven’t had a presidential couple that they could pass off as “classy” since Ron and Nancy, at least for the staider older crowd. They weren’t exactly exciting to most under 40. Barack and Michelle stand out as an ultra cool couple on so many levels and I doubt there will ever be another presidential couple that will ever come close.

  94. 94.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    interesting…

    Laura Rozen‏ @ lrozen 3h3 hours ago
    House Intel comm’s Schiff tells ABC he “is now very pleased at the level of cooperation we are getting from the FBI” on Russia probe

  95. 95.

    amk

    Seeing any parallels?

    Attacks by Russian hackers could threaten British democracy, GCHQ has warned politicians.

    The spy agency’s computer security chief has written to political parties offering advice on preventing hacks, according to The Sunday Times.

    US intelligence officials have accused the Kremlin of using cyber-attacks to influence the November election.

    But Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said there was so far no evidence of successful attacks in the UK.

  96. 96.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    @Shinobi42:

    My parents gave me the down payment on my home, and payed my full tuition. Every time someone is like “all it takes is hard work.” I am like “lol, no.”

    My parents loaned me half the down payment on my home – I paid them back, with interest – and paid very little of my tuition. It took me 15 years to pay off my student loans. I have a good job that pays more than my Dad’s ever did, but I will NEVER catch up to them financially. Times have changed, with a vengeance.

  98. 98.

    hovercraft

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    All of it Katie.
    They all hate that Obama is cool, good looking and could get laid anytime he wanted to. Rove and all of these assholes know the only reason they get laid is because they are paying for it, no one wants to sleep with that ham. Obama got into their heads just by being his own damn self. None of this I didn’t inhale, he said “that was the whole point”, he wrote about using coke like a real person.
    He’s the bad boy athlete who got good grades, the girl, and then got the brass ring, is loved and respected, all the while making it look easy, and Karl is still the lackey in the background, he’s got money but he’s still a loser. SAD !
    Twitler has the same problem he’s conned his way through life, gotten the girls, but unlike Obama, he’s not liked or respected. Why dammit, why? So unfair!

  100. 100.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:
    Why?
    Do you feel the need to be yelled at?
    If you watch, just be sure you don’t adopt what yo see for you 2020 campaign. You will lose your base.

  101. 101.

    debbie

    @raven:

    Wasn’t Jane’s response just a couple years after My Lai? If someone wasn’t alive or old enough to watch the coverage of that incident as it unfolded, then they can have no way of understanding what drove her to do what she did.

  102. 102.

    raven

    @Elmo: “There are ways of protesting an unjust war without actively supporting the killing of American troops and doing propaganda for the other side”

    Like I said, bullshit.

  105. 105.

    Elmo

    @raven: Seriously, what part of what I said is bullshit? That there are ways of protesting without doing that?
    Or that that is a reasonable interpretation of what she did?
    I know she started claiming, some 10 years afterward, that she didn’t mean the propaganda pose in that way. To my mind, the extensive delay calls the credibility of the denial into question. She certainly didn’t loudly and publicly reject her NVA hosts for manipulating her at the time.

    If you choose to believe her, that’s fine too. But it doesn’t make my claim self-evidently “bullshit.”

  106. 106.

    mai naem mobile

    I’ve always thought Barack Obama was a good looking guy. I mean model good looking. This would get the white aryan morons upset, but I’ve also thought since I was young that biracial people are more attractive. They just seem to get the best of both gene pools and end up hawt looking!
    Also, I think some of the style changes are due to the SS. I think as POTUS some of his clothing had to be bullet proof

  107. 107.

    raven

    @Elmo: This part “actively supporting the killing of American troops “. You believe what you and your pop want, the majority of Nam vets probably do. The North Vietnamese also used the Gi Antiwar movement as propaganda to support their cause. In that sense all of us were traitors. I say it’s bullshit. Fucking Nixon is the one who purposely torpedoed the peace talks so he could get elected. THAT is “actively supporting the killing of American troops” in my mind.

  108. 108.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Elmo: I think raven is getting at something that evades so many; attacking a symptom (Fonda) is pointless when the disease (American hubris) is ignored.

  109. 109.

    Mnemosyne

    Sprained knee update: it’s still sore, but I was able to get to and from my writers’ group meeting this morning and make a stop at Target. I’m going to ice it again while my last load of clothes is in the dryer and then I finish my packing for Disneyworld.

  111. 111.

    bemused

    There have been GOP legislators that have been terrified some of their teaparty, trump voting constituents won’t vote for them or even do them physical harm if they don’t do what Trump promised. They have been afraid to have town halls because their liberal constituents and some Republicans don’t want to lose their healthcare and upset about a lot of other issues who want answers. Now Ryan and GOP have concocted an actual death panel plan. It seems that they have multiplying the numbers of constituents that would like to tar and feather them weekly for not being conservative enough but not so conservative that they lose their health care. The GOP has one hot mess on their hands and I can’t help but think that at least some of the legislators don’t know which group they should be afraid of most.

  114. 114.

    pamelabrown53

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: #79.
    Sounds like some wonderful trips to anticipate. Australia and New Zealand are the only really far-away places that I’m motivated to see. I spent so many years traveling abroad that there’s a lot I haven’t seen in America. So, some American destinations are going to the top of the bucket list. Still, I always love to hear and see the travel pix from you and other commenters.

  115. 115.

    raven

    @Villago Delenda Est: I had a friend ( 130 pilot) jump up and down explaining how “Dereliction of Duty” is all about how LBJ prosecuted the war. Then I read the information about Mc Master and all I read is how he took on the military brass for their extensive dereliction in the prosecution of the war. He loves to rail on about Hanoi Jane too.

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    @hovercraft:

    IIRC, when he first took office, our last good president said that he was kind of taking the Einstein approach to his wardrobe: keeping it as simple and mindless as possible because he had too many other, more urgent things to think about.

    Now that he’s out of office, he has some additional brainspace to dedicate to looking fabulous, so he does.

  117. 117.

    Elmo

    @raven: Raven, I didn’t mean to get crosswise with you. I have nothing but respect. What VVAW did (again, to my mind) was qualitatively different. Fonda crossed a line, I think, but you have more right to judge than I.

    And I agree with you about Nixon. Censuring Fonda doesn’t mean defending the people who used what she did to whip up hatred for “anti war liberals.”

    Peace. I’m out.

  119. 119.

    pluky

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The cut of his jacket is sharper — tighter across the torso, and with longer lapels. Note: two buttons undone on the shirt, not one.

    Her palette has lost the pastels. Now urban professional black off set by the charcoal blue overcoat and chest panel on the blouse. The hair is more casually styled. And the shoes, give me strength! Those are killer kicks. Enough heel to be serious, but not life threatening (to the wearer that is).

    That being said, the body language is so radically different, they could be wearing sweats. The NMFTG message would still be clear.

  121. 121.

    A Ghost to Most

    @Villago Delenda Est: As another Vietnam era vet, I agree with VDE and Raven; people make way too much of the Fonda theatrics. It was very much of it’s time; she is who the wingers hated on before they had Hillary.

  122. 122.

    Mnemosyne

    @debbie:

    There doesn’t seem to be, but I’ve been very good about keeping it wrapped, elevated, and iced. I tore my ACL 11 years ago and got immediate first aid (I had fallen off a stepladder), so I can’t remember if that swelled much.

  123. 123.

    pluky

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That Mr. Bharara would cite the Moreland commission makes me even more suspicious of something. That this was a deal between Trump and Cuomo to rid the latter of an up-and-coming potential rival in exchange for Cuomo running interference for Trump on any potential NYS investigations. Not likely I know, but with the Trump, the unlikely seems to keep happening.

  127. 127.

    StringOnAStick

    I just read a GOS story that Bannon is being investigated for residence fraud. The gist is that he claimed to live in a rented place in FL (his 3rd ex-wife’s address) while owning a home in CA and running his business there, plus having a CA driver’s license. He didn’t vote in FL, but appears to have used it to avoid CA taxes on his business. The investigation appears to be quite extensive and advanced. Popcorn anyone?

  128. 128.

    raven

    @A Ghost to Most: Always liked this :”VVAW did these silent marches. All you could hear were boots hitting the street. Once a Republican woman came up to us and said, ‘What are you doing to the morale of the troops?’ And VVAW would say, ‘Lady, we are the troops.”:

  130. 130.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @pluky: it would schaden my freude if Cuomo (and Christie) got taken down at the same time as trump

    (remlnder to self: Do not count chickens)

  131. 131.

    Mnemosyne

    @StringOnAStick:

    As tax lawyers have said here, the California Franchise Tax Board does not fuck around. Tax lawyers are apparently more afraid of them than they are of the IRS, because the IRS can have some mercy. Not the FTB.

  132. 132.

    zhena gogolia

    @pluky:

    And the subtext of all this for me is: The Obamas had a sense of decorum about everything down to their clothes and hairstyles. Melania can’t even be bothered to live in DC.

  133. 133.

    zhena gogolia

    @Mnemosyne:

    And let’s breathe a sigh of relief that our worst fears about BHO’s safety while president were not realized.

  135. 135.

    J R in WV

    @SFBayAreaGal:

    Vet and would vote for a yellow dawg before I would vote for a Republican. Especially these evil fuqers we see in today’s Republican party! Have never voted for an R! Will never vote for an R.

  136. 136.

    mai naem mobile

    I thought they said Schneiderman was going to run for governor. I wouldn’t mind seeing Gillibrand run for POTUS(and win)and have Bharara take her place. It would be okay to see him run for governor but it woild.be extra special to see him go after Asshole 45s pals in the Senate after they take the Senate (hey,I can dream.)

  137. 137.

    Debbie1

    @debbie: I thought about the anger over Jane Fonda too, and I noticed that it’s a particular sort who pretend to be still angry. It’s the same type who waves the flag about Fonda but who wasn’t the least bit troubled by voting for presidents who delayed the release of American political prisoners (Nixon, Reagan), or voting for candidates who did not serve (cough: Trump) but malign those who did because of their Muslim faith. So, I’ve figured out that it’s not really out of concern for the troops that they hated and continue to say they hate Fonda, but because she represents the strain of ultra-liberal, hippy, left wing politics of the 60s that they hated. (i.e., she’s a Dem).

  139. 139.

    Debbie1

    I don’t understand why people who wouldn’t think of insulting a woman or a gay person think it’s ok to casually insult a man by calling his pants “mom jeans.” I hate that expression, especially when you could get the same idea of staid clothes by calling it “dad jeans.” It’s a way of subtly putting down a man, and it’s NOT okay. I hate to be a scold, but I don’t think it’s right to put down men.

    I’ll get off my soap box now. I realize it won’t stop people from ignorantly using that expression, but as the mother of a son, it’s always bothered me because I know folks know better.

  141. 141.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Debbie1: I stopped reading her long ago, but Charlie Pierce always maintains that there’s a lot gay-baiting/bashing in Maureen Dowd’s portrayal as Obama

  142. 142.

    Bill Arnold

    Poking through papers a couple of days old, I see this related to Trump and his Chinese operations:
    In China, Trump Wins a Trove of New Trademarks.
    It’s sort-of-maybe-benign in a plausibly-deniable sort of way, except that:

    Matthew Dresden, a lawyer with Harris Bricken in Seattle who specializes in Chinese intellectual property law, said it was atypical that all the trademarks were “approved at once.”

    “I think that’s really odd. That makes you look and think: ‘Somebody got some instructions at the trademark office that these should be approved,’” Mr. Dresden said.

    If deliberate, and I assume it was, the Chinese either knew that it would have the appearance of corruption in US tradition but didn’t care, or did not know this and should step up their game.
    If they knew and didn’t care, then the possibilities include that they wanted to gently harm Trump while helping his business, or that they figured that Trump would be able to manage the appearance of corruption so that it didn’t cause him any net political harm.
    I expect we’ll see more overt but deniable bribery of Trump of this sort from various nations.
    Many employers would discipline or fire people for this sort of thing, because it would make them look bad and probably increase legal exposure.
    Trump is given a pass, because … something to do with the lesser known exploits of the Republican Underpants Gnomes perhaps?

  143. 143.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @zhena gogolia:

    The Obamas had a sense of decorum about everything down to their clothes and hairstyles.

    Michelle in particular was very conscious of the subtle messages her clothes conveyed. As just one example out of many, she wore a Tadashi Shoji gown at the State Dinner for Japanese P.M. Shinzo Abe and his wife. Dressing in the national colours of the host or guest country, or wearing styles by designers whose national origins are shared with the guests, are messages that don’t go unnoticed. (The British royal women are also really good at this kind of fashion iconography.) It may seem trivial and superficial, but it’s an important diplomatic tool.

  145. 145.

    Ruckus

    @Elmo:
    I was not in any way a fan of Vietnam. I joined the navy partially to avoid being drafted and to be much less likely to be shot/blown up/etc. But I also believe in service to my country, however corny that may seem to some. And given all that you might believe that I hate Jane Fonda. But I don’t. Did she do wrong? Sure seemed like it at the time but, and it is a big, firm, round but, the war was wrong and terrible. I sat in a navy hospital for 2 months with people with massive physical and mental wounds. I get my healthcare from the VA and I sit with people who gave up a lot and some who risked everything, some for the wrong reasons, some because they had little to no choice. Some of those vets are morons, as raven has alluded to, many are not. Some want to go back to a time they got to be, at least in their own minds, heroes. I consider very, very few of them heroes, they, like me, just were not. Most of us went where we were told, did what we were told, when we were told, how we were taught and that is the extent of it. But at the same time over 53 thousand americans died and many, many more were wounded, not to mention those from many other countries on both sides of this terrible war. I can forgive someone who tried, however badly and ineptly to stop the war. But that may be because I didn’t pay as high a price as others. But I do know some who died, lots and lots who were injured and are still paying. There is never a good war, there are sometimes necessary wars, because there are terrible people in the world. Jane Fonda didn’t start that war, politicians did. And one of ours raised that several thousand levels. Fuck LBJ. But like everything else in life, there is a time and place to remember, a time and place to learn what not to do and a time and place to forgive. I know people who fought in that war and have moved back to Vietnam and been warmly received by most of the people. We bombed them, we shot them, we burned their houses, we poisoned their jungles and water, and they forgive us and have moved on. Shouldn’t we be able to do the same? Or are we going to replay the same battles over and over for no reason?

  147. 147.

    Ruckus

    @Steeplejack (tablet):
    You think an MBA teaches anyone about realistic economics? Just a hint, it doesn’t. It teaches how to maximize profits above all else. Who and what to screw so that more money is made. That a few actually learn something useful is a testament to them rather than the degree.

  148. 148.

    Jay Noble

    The Obamas should do one of those challenge thingies and let their girls dress them for a week. :-)

  149. 149.

    Ruckus

    @Mnemosyne:

    Not the FTB.

    They make the IRS seem like a random group of good friends. The kind to go to the beach with or a party. I think they took all of their training manuals from the Border Patrol.

  151. 151.

    dave

    Ah yes Jane Fonda again. The war was lost by South Vietnamese troops LOOSING !!!belief by 159 million people does not raise Tinkerbelle one inch., The number of Americans evading service was statistically insignificant-and in the end the South Vietnamese Lost on their own

  152. 152.

    Ruckus

    @raven:
    Thank you.
    I’ve learned a few things in life. Not in any particular order.
    1.Young people rarely get to shine because they are considered inexperienced or stupid. Many of them are neither.
    2. Old people are respected because they’ve lived a long time. All that requires is breathing longer. Many people that have done so are fucking morons and work to prove it daily. And remember breathing is an autonomous function.
    3. Wealth can be a sign of illegality and quite often a reasonable sign of stupidity. And many wealthy people strive to prove one or both of those regularly.
    4. Lack of wealth is just that, it doesn’t reflect on a persons intelligence, abilities or ethics.
    5. Military service is just that. It doesn’t prove your patriotism or lack of intelligence, abilities or ethics. Nor does it prove any of the opposites.
    6. There will always be morons. There will always be geniuses. Some days it’s difficult to tell which is which or where on the line one falls.
    7. Government is necessary, it is what makes a society function. Or fail to.

  154. 154.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Elmo: Y’all can beat me up but American soldiers had no business in Vietnam so I’m fully on board with Fonda’s protest tactics. Too bad she regrets them because America had no business being in Vietnam fighting a war. Period. Just like American soldiers had no business being in Iraq fighting a war. Period.

    I’ve watched several of Jane Fonda’s movies. She’s a great award winning actress. She doesn’t deserve the hatred she’s received because of her protests. Just like John Kerry didn’t deserve to be swift boated because of his outspokenness against the Vietnam War after his return to the U.S.

  155. 155.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Ruckus:

    I can forgive someone who tried, however badly and ineptly to stop the war.

    And it’s too bad that the nightmare of the Vietnam War hasn’t stopped America from engaging in other overseas war adventures. Something as awful and damaging as Vietnam should have been a warning for future generations to never again engage in unnecessary wars but given how much money is made from the defence industry, this hasn’t been the case.

  156. 156.

    Chet Murthy

    OT, but (in a way not): Recently I’ve been more attuned to people’s physicality, by which I mean all the ways they exist, -other- than their “wow, she’s hot”.

    And …. every time I see a woman navigate a staircase in high heels (and *esp* when it’s seriously high spike heels) I’m like … “whoa, that’s some hard-core athleticism there”.

    Maybe it’s b/c I have a little knee problem right now (a -little- one) and have found that for the last N months, I walk -down- stairs more carefully, always near the handrail “just in case”.

    As they said about Ginger Rodgers, “all the same steps, but backwards in heels”.

    Dayyyum, Mrs O, you rock, and you’re wearing heels I couldn’t stand up straight in, while doing it.

  157. 157.

    laura

    @Mnemosyne: Please stay on top of the ice-ibuprofen regimen! It will make your swanning about the House of Mouse all about the family and not all about your knee.
    Also, too, please send photos to “On the Road” with the obligatory ears, Tea Cups, et al.
    I could sure use someone’s trip to not the real world so damn bad . . . .
    And Bob Voyage, I wish many happy memories and few reality rearing it’s ugly head for the entirety of your journey.
    Besitos e abrazos

  158. 158.

    'Niques

    @Mnemosyne: I haven’t yet read thru comments, so if it’s been said just disregard… Disney World is BIG. If your knee is at all still sore, consider getting a wheelchair as soon as you enter the park. The added benefits include getting in front of the lines and having a way to cart your stuff. Very much worth it!

  160. 160.

    Chet Murthy

    @Elmo: I’m a pretty rabid leftist, and I think the Vietnam War was a stupid conflict for which we as a nation are culpable, and STILL I have trouble with Jane Fonda. And I’m not of that generation.

    It’s one thing to go balls-to-the-wall opposing our country’s policies -in- our country. It’s one thing to go someplace else and sit it out. It’s *another* to give aid and comfort to our country’s declared enemy.

    OK: so I should bring it home. I firmly believe that Iran could and should be a friend, not an enemy. And I think that if Israel were to make peace with the Palestinians, the rapprochement between the US and Iran would happen -rapidly-.

    But when my (massive, multinational) employer asked me about overseas assignments, I responded: “anyplace except China, Russia, and Iran — b/c I won’t help geopolitical adversaries”.

  161. 161.

    Chet Murthy

    @Shell: De gustibus non est disputandem, but still, unh-unh,

    Daaaayyyyum girl

    In the MOST respectful manner I can possibly muster. She killed it, over and over.

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