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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Wednesday Morning Open Thread: “Just Not FUN Anymore, Paulie Boy!”

Wednesday Morning Open Thread: “Just Not FUN Anymore, Paulie Boy!”

by Anne Laurie|  March 22, 20176:43 am| 151 Comments

This post is in: C.R.E.A.M., Dolt 45, Grifters Gonna Grift, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Republicans in Disarray!, Ryan Lyin' Weasel, World's Best Healthcare (If You Can Afford It), Assholes, Not Normal

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No one has ever had as much fun trying to take away health care from 24 million people as Paul Ryan pic.twitter.com/iueO3mWJaL

— Judd Legum (@JuddLegum) March 22, 2017

Okay, I’m a little obsessed right now. Because I’m hoping for the political equivalent of a Trump-Ryan murder-suicide pact, and I don’t even care which partner goes first.

Apart from keeping one eye on the perpetrators at all times, what’s on the agenda for the day?
.

These guys are good (at hurting people). https://t.co/hgWxQqBQFJ

— Schooley (@Rschooley) March 21, 2017

House GOP health bill is struggling because it's only real selling point is tribal imperative

— John Harwood (@JohnJHarwood) March 21, 2017

Sessions says he expects a new CBO score on the altered health bill Wednesday evening.

— Kristina L. Peterson (@kristinapet) March 21, 2017

This should help with the already-difficult whipping for Thursday's vote. https://t.co/ZBYdz556R5

— Josh Barro (@jbarro) March 21, 2017

President Trump sounds ready to get health care reform behind him https://t.co/8CcK0jeHcs pic.twitter.com/fi3wbvV545

— CNN Politics (@CNNPolitics) March 21, 2017

.@POTUS starts conference meeting talking about size of crowd at last night's rally: "We won't have these crowds if we don't get this done."

— Phil Mattingly (@Phil_Mattingly) March 21, 2017

First test of Trump era re: who throws more of a scare into members, the outside pressure groups or the WHhttps://t.co/du6IMnBQJ9

— Jonathan Martin (@jmartNYT) March 21, 2017

After GOP meeting on repeal bill, @SpeakerRyan says Pres Trump "was here to do what he does best and that is to close the deal." pic.twitter.com/PKgeOZ4V1L

— Mark Knoller (@markknoller) March 21, 2017

Paul Ryan's trying to crash land this flaming piece of wreckage and Trump's busy pointing at his watch https://t.co/LIRzaIo6qs

— Simon Maloy (@SimonMaloy) March 21, 2017

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Reader Interactions

151Comments

  1. 1.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 6:49 am

    Heard a little about this on NPR during rush hour yesterday. They covered solely the politics.

    I hope Ryan and the GOP go down in flames on this. It is sinful to have “representatives” with government-funded healthcare plotting to take away what little healthcare the non-corporate public gets to advance their political careers. Fuck them.

  2. 2.

    amk

    March 22, 2017 at 6:50 am

    ready to get health care reform behind him

    wtf? quit and declare a win before you even get started?

  3. 3.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 6:51 am

    WOAH – Even the liberal Wall Street Journal is attacking Drumpf:

    A President’s Credibility
    Trump’s falsehoods are eroding public trust, at home and abroad.

    March 21, 2017 7:28 p.m. ET

    If President Trump announces that North Korea launched a missile that landed within 100 miles of Hawaii, would most Americans believe him? Would the rest of the world? We’re not sure, which speaks to the damage that Mr. Trump is doing to his Presidency with his seemingly endless stream of exaggerations, evidence-free accusations, implausible denials and other falsehoods.

    The latest example is Mr. Trump’s refusal to back off his Saturday morning tweet of three weeks ago that he had “found out that [Barack] Obama had my ‘wires tapped’ in Trump Tower just before the victory” on Election Day. He has offered no evidence for his claim, and a parade of intelligence officials, senior Republicans and Democrats have since said they have seen no such evidence.

    Yet the President clings to his assertion like a drunk to an empty gin bottle, rolling out his press spokesman to make more dubious claims. Sean Spicer—who doesn’t deserve this treatment—was dispatched last week to repeat an assertion by a Fox News commentator that perhaps the Obama Administration had subcontracted the wiretap to British intelligence.

    ***

    Two months into his Presidency, Gallup has Mr. Trump’s approval rating at 39%. No doubt Mr. Trump considers that fake news, but if he doesn’t show more respect for the truth most Americans may conclude he’s a fake President.

  4. 4.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 6:53 am

    Sad news: famed CIA operative Chuck Barris has passed away at age 87.

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    March 22, 2017 at 6:55 am

    Good Morning, Everyone???

  6. 6.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 6:58 am

    After GOP meeting on repeal bill, @SpeakerRyan says Pres Trump “was here to do what he does best and that is to close the deal stiff his vendors and contractors, after declaring bankruptcy 6 times, killing an entire football league, and destroying 3 licenses to print money ca$in0s.”

    /fixed

  7. 7.

    hueyplong

    March 22, 2017 at 7:01 am

    I’m already sick of asides about how Sean Spicer doesn’t deserve to go through hell. Yes, he does. He signed up for this. If he wasn’t aware of what it entailed, he should have been. And he can quit anytime he wants.

    Freedom. Choice. You know, their mantra.

  8. 8.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 7:02 am

    @rikyrah: g00d morning

  9. 9.

    seaboogie

    March 22, 2017 at 7:08 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning!

    I should probably go to sleep soonish….intense night…still processing….

  10. 10.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    March 22, 2017 at 7:09 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Why doesn’t Spicer deserve this? He signed up for this shit. He knew what he was dealing with, and he happily got on board with it anyway. These people are soulless dickheads. They deserve all the scorn that comes their way, whatever the Wall Street Journal might say.

  11. 11.

    debbie

    March 22, 2017 at 7:10 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    May conclude?

  12. 12.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 7:12 am

    Cover – NY Daily News: Trump is Evil (photo)

  13. 13.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 7:13 am

    @hueyplong: Hey now, give the poor guy a break. He is probably suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

  14. 14.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 7:14 am

    David Rockefeller dies at age 101, proving, once again, only the good die young.

  15. 15.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 7:15 am

    @seaboogie: you ok? What happened, anything you can share?

  16. 16.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 7:18 am

    After GOP meeting on repeal bill, @SpeakerRyan says Pres Trump “was here to do what he does best and that is to close the deal betray his wives and sexually assault women.”

    /fixed

  17. 17.

    PaulW

    March 22, 2017 at 7:18 am

    Chuck Barris DIED?!
    …
    I’m willing to bet it’s Putin’s revenge for all the work Barris did for the CIA.

  18. 18.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 7:18 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning rikyrah ?

  19. 19.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 7:18 am

    Where’s baud? MIA.

    Now is a time for moral courage. It is morally wrong for Ryan and the Republicans to be doing what they’re attempting. It’s even economically unadvisable, save for the endangered wealthy. We must defeat them.

    Rev. Barber’s memo calls the GOP plan “wealthcare.”

    And amid all this hardship and suffering, health insurance CEO’s and the wealthiest handful of Americans get massive tax breaks. Some have even dubbed the legislation “wealthcare.” By any name, it’s a giant moral leap backward for our nation and a clear example of systemic racism and classism. But we can stop this bill before it’s too late.

    Join Faith in Public Life, Rev. Dr. William Barber II and other faith leaders on Wednesday, March 22, at 1 p.m. as we hold a rally on Capitol Hill to demand a moral commitment to health care reform for all Americans.

  20. 20.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 7:19 am

    @satby: WRT seaboogie: On the On the Road thread. Aged kitty breathed her last yesterday.

  21. 21.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 7:21 am

    The people losing healthcare if this passes will be little differnt soon than the number losing healthcare if it doesn’t pass; ACA is in a death spiral. The thugs caused this when they refused to fix the ACA issues (like a real mandate requiring purchasing healthcare by all adults.) Rather, the dems might very well get killed at the midterms as ACA staggers along causing premiums to climb and climb and fewer and fewer companies offering healthcare much less affordable healthcare even for middle class income levels! Better that the thugs own the mess they created so the backlash burns them down; then real healthcare can be enacted.

  22. 22.

    Hal

    March 22, 2017 at 7:23 am

    I’m trying to figure out the logic Republicans are using that convinces them passing this bill will be better for their midterm chances than it failing. I’m sure their are plenty of Republican voters hoping this bill fails and wouldn’t Trump be the epicenter of the failure to pass? But so would Ryan and McConnell, so now I see why they’re so desperate.

  23. 23.

    debbie

    March 22, 2017 at 7:25 am

    @Hal:

    The only logic the GOP knows is WINNING!

  24. 24.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 7:26 am

    @Cermet: Is ACA in a death spiral? Is that true?

  25. 25.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 7:26 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

    Where’s baud? MIA.

    Now is a time for moral courage

    And you thought of me??!! I’m touched.

  26. 26.

    Gindy51

    March 22, 2017 at 7:26 am

    @Cermet: You keep posting this on every thread….

  27. 27.

    Taylor

    March 22, 2017 at 7:28 am

    @Cermet: The Democrats lost Congress after passing healthcare reform.

    The Republicans may lose Congress after passing their own Godforsaken version of healthcare reform.

    What lesson do you think politicians will draw from this?

  28. 28.

    amk

    March 22, 2017 at 7:28 am

    @Cermet: Your copy/paste skills are appreciated.

  29. 29.

    hueyplong

    March 22, 2017 at 7:28 am

    @Hal:

    Tribalism. Winning. Destroying a liberal creation.

    That’s what it’s about, along with the standard stealth transfer of wealth upstream.

  30. 30.

    JerryRich

    March 22, 2017 at 7:29 am

    Time for a Star Trek reference. In the original series, Governor Kodos responded to a famine by putting half of Earth Colony Tarsus IV’s residents to death so the remainder may survive. He is forever known thereafter as Kodos the Executioner. His death toll was 4,000. Paul Ryan and his band of cutthroats will exceed this death toll fivefold in one year. Kodos was a piker, we need a new nickname for Ryan (Ryan the Grinning Death Monkey, perhaps?).

  31. 31.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 7:32 am

    @Hal: Yeah. I cannot fathom that one at all.

    Although it is not “logic” that has brought them to this pass. NPR was reporting it was GOP congresscritters having to repeal Obamacare, because it’s what they promised their rabid base. But it’s more likely an “entitlement” Ryan and others want to gut, at the behest of their Daddy Moneybags type donors.

    At any rate, it harms average Americans. I hope Ryan et al get scalded, badly.

    ETA: None of this makes any sense whatsoever to me. Healthier Americans are more productive and happier.

  32. 32.

    Hal

    March 22, 2017 at 7:33 am

    @Cermet:

    Problems? Yes. Death spiral? Um, no.

    On Monday night, House Speaker Paul Ryan repeated this line, even in the face of projections that his plan could lead to 24 million fewer Americans with health insurance in 10 years. “Put this against the backdrop that Obamacare is collapsing,” he said in interview with Fox News. “This, compared to the status quo, is far better.”

    But the new estimates from the Congressional Budget Office contradict this long-held talking point. According to the budget office, the Obamacare markets will remain stable over the long run, if there are no significant changes. The House plan would cause near-term turmoil, it found, but the markets would eventually become stable. “The nongroup market would probably be stable in most areas under either current law or the legislation,” said the report, using the technical term for the market where people buy their own health insurance.

    Mr. Ryan is right that the Obamacare market has endured hardships. It isn’t as competitive as many of its advocates had hoped, and shoppers in many parts of the country have only one insurer to choose from. Prices, which were lower than expected in the first few years of the program, spiked this year by an average of 22 percent across the country. There have also been some high-profile exits from insurers like Aetna, UnitedHealth Group and most recently Humana. Rural counties have been particularly hard hit.

  33. 33.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 7:35 am

    @Baud: LOL. Someone has had his Wheaties and coffee.

  34. 34.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 7:35 am

    @Elizabelle: oh, so sorry! Thanks.

  35. 35.

    rikyrah

    March 22, 2017 at 7:35 am

    @Elizabelle:
    Wealthcare

    Absolutely on point

    They are crystal clear about the tax cuts.
    24 MILLION lose Healthcare?
    But, we have those tax cuts.

    SOCIOPATHS

    The.entire.lot.of.them.

  36. 36.

    MomSense

    March 22, 2017 at 7:36 am

    I feel exhausted today but I’m going to power through.
    ?

  37. 37.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 22, 2017 at 7:36 am

    @Baud:

    I’m touched.

    We knew that.

  38. 38.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 7:37 am

    @hueyplong:

    along with the standard stealth transfer of wealth upstream.

    There is nothing stealthy at all about this one.

  39. 39.

    rikyrah

    March 22, 2017 at 7:38 am

    @Hal:
    They don’t give a shyt about Healthcare.
    They want those phucking tax cuts.

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    March 22, 2017 at 7:40 am

    @MomSense:
    Keep on trucking.?

  41. 41.

    SFAW

    March 22, 2017 at 7:41 am

    @JerryRich:

    Kodos was a piker, we need a new nickname for Ryan (Ryan the Grinning Death Monkey, perhaps?).

    He’s one of “Twitler’s Willing Executioners”?

    ETA: Except that ZEGS is much more than willing, of course — he’s been actively working to destroy health coverage for all since who-knows-when.

  42. 42.

    debbie

    March 22, 2017 at 7:41 am

    @rikyrah:

    SOCIOPATHS

    This is what I just cannot understand. What kind of mind thinks it’s okay to inflict such damage on so many?

  43. 43.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 7:43 am

    So Betty Cracker asked: “So what role for which you are completely unqualified do you see yourself occupying over the next three years and 10 months (barring impeachment)?”

    I want to be Pope and actually do to the Catholic Church what Trump is trying to do to the country.

  44. 44.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    March 22, 2017 at 7:46 am

    On January 1st, the editor of the WSJ went on MTP and warned news organizations not to call Trump a liar.

    61 days in office and the Journal is now calling Trump a “fake president” who spouts “falsehoods”.

    How quickly times change, … even for Rupert.

  45. 45.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 7:46 am

    @debbie: They refuse to believe they are. After all, they’re all fine, everyone they know is fine, they don’t see the problem. If all those other people would just get jobs with health insurance, everyone would be fine. It’s the stubborn lazy losers who won’t be fine, but they deserve it. << That's what they really think.

  46. 46.

    WereBear

    March 22, 2017 at 7:48 am

    @satby: With the corollary that they are on top because they are just that awesome.

  47. 47.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 7:49 am

    @WereBear: exactly! And they all accomplished it their own selves, with no help from anybody.

  48. 48.

    hueyplong

    March 22, 2017 at 7:50 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I say it’s “stealthy” if half of the country– the half required to make it work– remains blissfully unaware of it.

  49. 49.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 7:50 am

    @SFAW: Himmler.

    @debbie: The kind that worships wealth.

  50. 50.

    germy

    March 22, 2017 at 7:51 am

    @satby:

    If all those other people would just get jobs with health insurance, everyone would be fine.

    “Well, if they’re on gubmint medicaid, we’ll FORCE ’em to get jobs!”

  51. 51.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 7:52 am

    @germy: but they won’t force those employers to provide health insurance.

  52. 52.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 7:53 am

    @hueyplong: Ignorance is a choice.

  53. 53.

    ArchTeryx

    March 22, 2017 at 7:55 am

    The agenda for today is to deliver a passel of thank-you letters for the three interviews I did yesterday, one for a temp, two for permanent state jobs. They’re all bottom-grade jobs, but they’d get me health insurance and a foot in the door into one of the last unionized workplaces left.

    I’m still in the pessimist’s corner that the Republicans will fall in line in the end, because this is an absolute tribal imperative for them. Expunging every last one of Obama’s good works is what they’ve lived for for 9 long years, and now undoing his signature accomplishment is within their grasp.

    But doG I hope I’m wrong. The stakes for me couldn’t be higher.

    If ZEGS isn’t good enough for Paul Ryan, how about Secure Sociopath? Think of the initials: SS. That’s what this dude is. A True Believer that would happily commit genocide on the poor to advance his twisted ideology.

  54. 54.

    WereBear

    March 22, 2017 at 7:56 am

    I have had a front row seat to how Republican rigging has screwed up so many.

    In my first marriage, paying off an expensive custody battle (that we won) the first Bush changed the rule on deducting interest and we went from doing okay to suddenly under water.

    The once great company I worked for started cutting benefits and firing people just before they were vested in various programs. So we went from a secure, if demanding, career to leaving before we were pushed; and the subsequent cut in pay.

    I trained for a new career and graduated right before tuition started skyrocketing; and then there weren’t any jobs for that new career. Still paying the loans. And I was relatively lucky.

    It’s all a scam to suck money out of us before we die of neglect.

  55. 55.

    SFAW

    March 22, 2017 at 7:56 am

    @satby:

    If all those other people would just get jobs with health insurance, everyone would be fine.

    And, of course, those morons are too moronic to notice that employer-“provided” insurance has become more-and-more expensive, and less-and-less available, for the last NN years. I count myself as one of the extremely fortunate, because Mrs. SFAW’s medical insurance (which covers the family) is still not forcing us to take out loans, but we’ll see what next year brings.

  56. 56.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 7:59 am

    Speaking of jobs, I met the guy that curates this site, which I’ve been reading. He also does a “Labor Song of the Month” that’s pretty cool. I told him he should come check out this joint.

  57. 57.

    debbie

    March 22, 2017 at 7:59 am

    @satby:

    And that is why I want Congress to pilot this new plan and learn how the rest of us will have to deal with their decisions.

  58. 58.

    SFAW

    March 22, 2017 at 7:59 am

    @ArchTeryx:
    Glad to hear about the interviews, best of luck for scoring a good job.

    I’m still in the pessimist’s corner that the Republicans will fall in line in the end, because this is an absolute tribal imperative for them. Expunging every last one of Obama’s good works is what they’ve lived for for 9 long years, and now undoing his signature accomplishment is within their grasp.

    Me, too, but only because it’s been SOP for them for awhile now, and hasn’t hurt them, so why should they change?

  59. 59.

    greennotGreen

    March 22, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @JerryRich: @JerryRich: Not a Star Trek reference but inspired by your suggestion: Representative Komodo Dragon. Animals, including humans not killed by the Komodo’s bite will often die later from the virulent bacteria they convey.

  60. 60.

    Sab

    March 22, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @germy: Yeah. My son in law and stepdaughter are on Medicaid. He is a roofer, so seasonal work. He did our roof. Up and down ladders all day carrying 85lb packets of shingles. 95 degrees. Definitely not lazy or idle. His job is a pre-existing condition because it is so dangerous. I hate the GOP.

  61. 61.

    germy

    March 22, 2017 at 8:02 am

    @satby:

    but they won’t force those employers to provide health insurance.

    “There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn’t want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.

    “That’s some catch, that Catch-22,” he observed.

    “It’s the best there is,” Doc Daneeka agreed.”

  62. 62.

    efgoldman

    March 22, 2017 at 8:02 am

    @Hal:

    But so would Ryan and McConnell, so now I see why they’re so desperate.

    90% of Shitgibbon voters don’t know who Granny Starver and Yertle McTurtle are, what they do, and who elect them both in DC and in actual elections.
    If the bill fails,Granny Starver’s speakership is probably hanging on for dear life. Yertle’s fingerprints will not be found anywhere.

  63. 63.

    randy khan

    March 22, 2017 at 8:02 am

    That CBO score should be interesting. I’m guessing it will look worse than the last one.

  64. 64.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 8:02 am

    @Elizabelle: No mandate, healthy people and young people will not enlist; result? Mostly the sick or those with pre-conditions sign up causing rates to rise and rise. Even middle class will struggle to pay high rates much less the poorer people. That leads to even fewer people signing up and, more rate increases. That is a death spiral. I wish I was wrong but unless their are real penalties for not having a healthcare plan, then why would healthy or young people pay for an expensive plan? This is the elephant in the room -especially now that small hands removed the minor penality that the ACA did have. There are other issues too that will contribute to the death spiral and frankly, I don’t see any solutions being enacted until and unless the dems really win; even then, they will need the white house. This is a bad situation that is gettin gworse with time.

  65. 65.

    WereBear

    March 22, 2017 at 8:02 am

    @SFAW: As described above, I had one of those jobs. They flat out doubled my workload without a raise, and I stayed on. When I left they were upset. But when they kept cutting the benefits and raising the expectations, there’s only so much I can take.

    For years I wondered if I made a mistake. And then, the corporations started laying off people without pensions or anything; my peers.

    So I actually did the smart thing. Not trusting them.

  66. 66.

    ArchTeryx

    March 22, 2017 at 8:02 am

    @WereBear: Yeah, Republican rigging is exactly why I am in the situation I am in. The universities were rigged to churn out grad students while slashing tenure-track professorial jobs thanks to MBA deans, then I graduate (three separate times) into a Republican recession, the last one of which all but destroyed the biosciences job market; the sequester killed what funding the recession didn’t. Junk insurance and being frozen out of the Ohio Medicaid system because of demographic exclusion all but wiped my savings out and damn near killed me in the process. (Ohio was, of course, an expansion refusenik state).

    Republicans have been trying to kill me for a very long time, and this election finally gave them the weapon to finish the job with. There’s a reason I’m so pessimistic.

  67. 67.

    germy

    March 22, 2017 at 8:03 am

    @Sab: They have soft hands. They sit on their asses all day and take long vacations. They stay in congress for decades, more than 30 years. They have all the health insurance they need. They simply can’t understand why anyone would want or need to retire.

  68. 68.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 8:05 am

    @SFAW: Because those that have braved town halls have realized they have constituents that aren’t “the base”?

    Because millions marched in pink hats, and healthcare is a front and center concern? Because the media has suddenly woken up that neither Trump or Republicans are that popular? And that they lie, constantly? And people are paying attention?

    Not picking on you, but I get tired of the cynicism here. What does that help? These are not usual times. Maybe even the troglodytes have woken to that fact.

    Maybe the fire-breathing conservatives are pulling their “doesn’t go far enough” act also to give cover to their brethren who would be endangered by gutting the Affordable Care Act? To retain numbers in 2018?

  69. 69.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @Gindy51: I fucking wonder why? Lets see, the Balloon Juice main writers are ignoring this extremely serious issue and I have see ZERO posts on this subject! This issue makes the thug’s plan an advantage for the dems yet the BJ’s are just crying about that plan and ignoring the elephant in the room! Damn it – wake up and pay attention to what is unraveling ACA and will cause us to lose the mid-terms assuming the thug’s don’t pass their plan making them the goats.

    I will continue to post this until a BJ’er bothers to address this extremely serious issue.

  70. 70.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 22, 2017 at 8:06 am

    In 24 hours I will be under general anesthesia. Oddly, I am looking forward to that.

  71. 71.

    WereBear

    March 22, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @ArchTeryx: There’s a reason I’m so pessimistic.

    I don’t blame you. I remember, in the original Robocop, the guy by the hospital with the sign “Will work for health care.”

    Satire becomes reality.

  72. 72.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 8:08 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Good luck.

  73. 73.

    Sab

    March 22, 2017 at 8:08 am

    @ArchTeryx: Wow. You were an Ohioan? We certainly have a knack for running off our best and brightest. Glad Kay is still here.

  74. 74.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 8:08 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Good luck to you, G&T. Hope your arm is as good as new.

    Where was the break? Sorry about the injury.

  75. 75.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 8:09 am

    @Taylor: Because the ACA has issues that were never addressed! Rates increased for many people and that is what they saw – not that a lot of poor got coverage; rather that the poor (some not working) got coverage and they ended up paying more. The dems didn’t really defend nor show why the average people was better off and hence, they lost the mid-terms! Now the thugs may get the same chance by causing healthcare to also continue to fail but if they let ACA die on its own, the dems will own that and suffer in the mid terms again!

  76. 76.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 8:09 am

    @ArchTeryx:

    (Ohio was, of course, an expansion refusenik state).

    I thought they expanded. Maybe after you left.

  77. 77.

    ArchTeryx

    March 22, 2017 at 8:13 am

    @Sab: Yes, I was. Ohio State had easily the worst health insurance of the entire Big Ten; I remember interviewing for a U of Michigan grad position (I didn’t get it) and being shocked at the difference in health insurance between OSU and UM. It was so shockingly bad it eventually almost led to a grad student general strike – OSU averted it only by instituting subsidies for part of the premiums, phased in over time. (And them promptly taking most of it back by instituting brand new fees for their shiny new rec center).

    Of course, I didn’t find out just how bad it REALLY was until I developed a chronic, potentially fatal condition.

  78. 78.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 8:14 am

    @Cermet:

    if they let ACA die on its own, the dems will own that

    We won’t own that. They might lie about it, but we won’t own it.

  79. 79.

    Immanentize

    March 22, 2017 at 8:14 am

    @Gin & Tonic: it is the waiting that is the most trying. Good luck and demand good pain medication! Take it all! Pain is not the friend of sleep, rest or healing.

  80. 80.

    ArchTeryx

    March 22, 2017 at 8:15 am

    @Baud: They did actually expand. I left long before the ACA actually became law; had that expansion been in place when I was there, I would have been able to get on the state Medicaid system and wouldn’t have nearly gone bankrupt trying to save my own life.

  81. 81.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 8:16 am

    @Hal: Did you notice

    if there are no significant changes.

    .

    Well, insurance companies are raising rates and some are leaving states. Changes are occurring and will gain speed as more people find health care too expensive. Only the subsidies are keeping the very poor in the game yet these are still the sicker population and that is causing the rate increases. Will congress continue to support these subsidies? They will undermine these and strive to eliminate them at every opportunity. Haven’t you noticed that policies costs are going up? You think that isn’t change nor going to affect affordability? This means more really sick people will decide to pay the extra cost but the healthy will avoid it – that is a death spiral.

    Look, I’d love to be wrong so the dems win the mid-terms but so far, these issues have hurt them.

  82. 82.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 22, 2017 at 8:16 am

    @Elizabelle: Right distal radius. I posted a link to a picture in one of the late night threads if you’re interested. Don’t look at it if you’re squeamish.

  83. 83.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 8:19 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Best of luck! The waiting is brutal, but hoping the outcome is a faster and better recovery.

  84. 84.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 8:21 am

    @Baud: Hope you are correct (I think I will avoid using the word ‘right’; sounds too republican.)

  85. 85.

    lollipopguild

    March 22, 2017 at 8:23 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Trump is Rupert’s monster. Trump was good for the ratings.

  86. 86.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 22, 2017 at 8:23 am

    @Cermet: How many lives lost is worth a “win”?

  87. 87.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 8:23 am

    @Cermet: I’m absolutely correct. We might lose the fight but we should never accept responsibility for the Republican actions.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 8:24 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: All of them, Katie.

  89. 89.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 8:25 am

    @ArchTeryx: That is terrible! I am so sorry! That is what the ACA fight is all about and why it needs to be fixed so it can survive.

  90. 90.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 8:26 am

    @Baud: Agree. And all those people showing up at town halls seem pretty clear on who’s at fault.

  91. 91.

    MomSense

    March 22, 2017 at 8:27 am

    @seaboogie:

    Sorry to hear about your kitty. Hugs to you.

    @rikyrah:

    Thanks. We get the job done, rikyrah!

  92. 92.

    Cermet

    March 22, 2017 at 8:28 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: None; I agree with your point but if the ACA collapses, and the dem’s are blamed, far more will die. Both choices are terrible. I would far and away prefer that the ACA get the critical fixes that allow it to continue but with this congress and white house, not going to happen. So, I am hoping for a mid-term gain by the dems.

  93. 93.

    JWR

    March 22, 2017 at 8:29 am

    @ArchTeryx:

    I’m still in the pessimist’s corner that the Republicans will fall in line in the end, because this is an absolute tribal imperative for them.

    Call me another pessimist, but I believe this as well. Tribalism is a powerful drug.

  94. 94.

    magurakurin

    March 22, 2017 at 8:31 am

    @Cermet:

    I wish I was wrong

    according to people who know a hell of a lot more about it than you, you are wrong. So, there’s that.

  95. 95.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 22, 2017 at 8:32 am

    @Cermet: You seem to be only focusing on the exchanges, there’s also medicaid expansion. There a shit ton of folk that will be without insurance and will have to resort to the ER for care or maybe Dolt 45 and ZEGS can create a Meat wagon force like the deportation force to pick up the dead.

  96. 96.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 8:33 am

    @Cermet:

    I will continue to post this until a BJ’er bothers to address this extremely serious issue.

    2 words: David Anderson. Your wish has been granted. Now if only mine can be.

  97. 97.

    low-tech cyclist

    March 22, 2017 at 8:33 am

    @hueyplong:

    I’m already sick of asides about how Sean Spicer doesn’t deserve to go through hell. Yes, he does. He signed up for this. If he wasn’t aware of what it entailed, he should have been. And he can quit anytime he wants.

    Freedom. Choice. You know, their mantra.

    Damn straight. When I saw “Sean Spicer—who doesn’t deserve this treatment—” my immediate reaction was, “He damn sure does!” And like you say, if he has a problem with it, he can take a hike. I’m sure Faux News would hire him, or maybe one of the conservative doublethink tanks.

  98. 98.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 22, 2017 at 8:36 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: He’s good, but he’s no Richard Mayhew.

  99. 99.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 8:36 am

    Those of you who are so pessimistic?

    What do you think your comments do to those of us who check in here at Balloon Juice? Do you realize how demoralizing it is?

    I get really sick of this place.

  100. 100.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    March 22, 2017 at 8:39 am

    @Elizabelle: I don’t think most of us are pessimistic, but there are pretty pictures on the previous thread.

  101. 101.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 8:40 am

    @Gin & Tonic:

    In 24 hours I will be under general anesthesia. Oddly, I am looking forward to that.

    The last time I went under, they almost killed me with aspirated pneumonia. I got a 3 day all expenses paid vacation in Hotel Missouri Baptist-Sullivan.

  102. 102.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 8:41 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: No, not most, but it infests some threads. It’s enervating.

    And I do love the OTR feature.

  103. 103.

    Gin & Tonic

    March 22, 2017 at 8:41 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Thanks for the good thoughts.

  104. 104.

    hueyplong

    March 22, 2017 at 8:41 am

    Your asshole uncle who forwards right wing emails is president of the United States, replacing a guy I’d put on Mt Rushmore. Of course we’re in a shitty mood.

  105. 105.

    low-tech cyclist

    March 22, 2017 at 8:43 am

    @Cermet:

    Damn it – wake up and pay attention to what is unraveling ACA and will cause us to lose the mid-terms assuming the thug’s don’t pass their plan making them the goats.

    I will continue to post this until a BJ’er bothers to address this extremely serious issue.

    You mean like what David Anderson posted on Monday?

    Sure, Anderson doesn’t think the ACA, as it is now, is in a death spiral, but he has little doubt that merely administrative changes, which Price would be delighted to implement, could put it into one pretty quick. So it’s close enough to the same concern for all practical purposes. And he’s addressing it.

  106. 106.

    amk

    March 22, 2017 at 8:44 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: yeah, David sure ain’t no Richard.

  107. 107.

    Sab

    March 22, 2017 at 8:44 am

    @Baud: They eventually expanded after Kasich the gov. found an executive runaround to shove it down the throats of the legislature. We have term limits so our legislators are absolute phucking idiots with virtual nose rings like Asian water buffaloes led around by lobbyists.

  108. 108.

    Bruce K

    March 22, 2017 at 8:44 am

    Low-probability best-case scenario for the US that I can think of at the moment: Dem wave election next year, and President Pence gets hit by lightning on January 6, 2019, without having successfully invoked Article 2 of the 25th Amendment during his Presidency. Granted, it means two years of possibly irreparable damage to the United States, but with the current line of succession running Trump-Pence-Ryan-Hatch-Tillerson-Mnuchin-just shoot me now, we’re in for two years of pain no matter what…

  109. 109.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 8:45 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: I miss that guy.

  110. 110.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 22, 2017 at 8:45 am

    @Elizabelle: But people voted for them knowing their stance on healthcare. What do voters expect a poisonous snake to do once it’s in control of our house? The ACA will die by a million little cuts and there probably will be no “replacement” at all.

  111. 111.

    Patricia Kayden

    March 22, 2017 at 8:47 am

    @hueyplong: Plus, he’s a nasty liar just like Trump. No sympathy for him at all. Yesterday he dragged President Obama and Secretary Clinton through the mud in a vain attempt to deflect Trump ties to Russia. Cannot stand him.

  112. 112.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 8:47 am

    @hueyplong: Shitty mood is ok. Enervating pessimism is not.

  113. 113.

    Scamp Dog

    March 22, 2017 at 8:47 am

    @Cermet: I seem to recall somebody named Mayhew posting about similar topics. Or maybe it was Anderson, I forget.

  114. 114.

    Sab

    March 22, 2017 at 8:48 am

    I don’t think Cermet is a troll. I think he has valid concerns. Hopefully Mayhew Anderson will discuss at some point.

  115. 115.

    Baud

    March 22, 2017 at 8:48 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    What do voters expect a poisonous snake to do once it’s in control of our house?

    Bite black people only.

  116. 116.

    Mike in DC

    March 22, 2017 at 8:49 am

    “Manafort? Manafort…Manafort…nope, name doesn’t ring a bell.”

  117. 117.

    amk

    March 22, 2017 at 8:50 am

    @Sab: Now, we have a 3rd guy??? Man, this place is becoming unbearable.

  118. 118.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 8:50 am

    @Gin & Tonic: I live to serve. ;-) Seriously, good luck and I hope your post op people are more attentive than mine were.

  119. 119.

    WereBear

    March 22, 2017 at 8:53 am

    @Sab: We have term limits so our legislators are absolute phucking idiots

    I keep trying to explain that to term limit fans on the Left; it’s a ploy. To not have any brains in the legislature at all.

  120. 120.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 8:56 am

    @Sab:

    Hopefully Mayhew Anderson will discuss at some point.

    He’s been addressing those concerns daily for quite some time now. Sometimes with multiple posts on one day.

  121. 121.

    lollipopguild

    March 22, 2017 at 8:56 am

    Trump’s kids and grandkids vacation in Aspen protected by 100 secret service agents while dad and the gop take away millions of American’s health insurance. Love the photos and story at Huffpost.

  122. 122.

    Sab

    March 22, 2017 at 8:56 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Their stance on healthcare wasn’t obvious in the election. Their stance on white supremacy and misogyny was chrystal clear, but their stance on healthcare was :”we will repeal Obama care and replace it with something hugely better.” I am not defending the nitwits who were OK with the racism in exchange for better ACA but I will accept that they thought they were voting for better healthcare for white people.

  123. 123.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 8:58 am

    @Sab: Mayhew Anderson is how we should refer to him from now on ?. And he’s posted on almost every aspect of the ACA/AHCA consistently, so it’s not being ignored.

  124. 124.

    OzarkHillbilly

    March 22, 2017 at 9:01 am

    @WereBear: Had that discussion with my brother not too long ago. Pointed out the fact that by the time a legislator figures out how the system works he’s term-limited out. So what they do is pass their legislative aides down to the newcomers which basically has the effect of the people actually running our govt, not one has ever had to face the voters.

    Of course, this being Misery I’m not sure it really matters.

  125. 125.

    greennotGreen

    March 22, 2017 at 9:03 am

    @Bruce K: But if there’s a Dem wave election next year, the Speaker of the House would be a Democrat, and your scenario would work out beautifully.

  126. 126.

    laura

    March 22, 2017 at 9:09 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Call the burn unit! That’s some serious photoshop -especially the teensy hand.

  127. 127.

    Starfish

    March 22, 2017 at 9:15 am

    @Cermet: Rates increased every year before ACA, but no one who was not an employer saw the rate increases when their employers were paying . This is why everyone’s healthcare got crappier and crappier because companies could not keep up with the rate increases to keep the same plans.

  128. 128.

    SFAW

    March 22, 2017 at 9:25 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Look, I hope you’re right. But considering the attention span (and short memory) of the people that keep electing those sociopaths, I wouldn’t bet on the RWNJ/Rethugs in Congress suffering any tangible consequences.

    What gives me some hope is that the 2006 midterms helped turn things around, albeit briefly. But in that case there were still Americans dying in Iraq, Katrina had happened, a few other things. But the electorate seems to have become more resistant to reason since then, so I’m not as optimistic as I’d like to be.

    Just means more work to get us there, but that’s do-able.

  129. 129.

    Sab

    March 22, 2017 at 9:26 am

    @amk:?? Who is the third guy, Kasich is Ohio governor who was a Congress critter under Gingrich in the nineties, got elected governor, and then got his arse handed to him in a referendum to repeal a law he loved. He has played at being a reasonable human being ever since. Tried to run for president as the only adult in the room in 2016. We know how that went . GOP doesn’t want no stinking adults in govt.

  130. 130.

    satby

    March 22, 2017 at 9:26 am

    @Starfish: nope, working for my huge employer, we had rate increases and coverage shrink every year. Never really dramatic, but year by year it got worse while becoming more expensive. I doubt my former employer was an outlier.

  131. 131.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    March 22, 2017 at 9:34 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    Here’s what I’d like to see communicated to American corporations and heavy hitter investors:

    Dear Plutocrats:

    In 1980, the American people reversed course on economic policy and the philosophy of government. They delivered you a thin mandate expressing a desire to trim perceived excess expenses in social benefits due to administrative bloat and mismanagement while a not inconsiderable number of recipients gamed the system. You convinced those voters that welfare reform would reduce deficits and return money to the overall economy, all to the benefit of middle class economic lives. At the same time, you convinced those middle class voters that tax cuts and regulatory rollbacks on the environment, workers’ safety and finance would unleash creative forces and capital to the great benefit of all.

    Once you got that control, you kept needing more, all while your most powerful, wealthy and well-connected acted with the self-discipline of a 16 year old whose parents are away for the weekend, leaving the keys to the Porsche and the liquor cabinet behind. Rather than the promised benefits flowing toward the middle as promised in theory, they instead went to extravagance without sense, and any money that got invested chased either dodgy hedge risk or drove real estate overvaluation. As a result, wealth inequality went on overdrive.

    You’ve been given the keys to the car and mom and dad are away again. This time, we don’t have a lingering set of sturdy labor institutions to save you from the rage when you fuck up.

    For the sake of your own necks, act With restraint and don’t mine the populace.

  132. 132.

    geg6

    March 22, 2017 at 9:37 am

    @Sab:

    Cermet’s concerns have been addressed here many times over the last few weeks. We have a FPer who works in the industry and who has deep understanding of the issues who blogs almost exclusively about healthcare issues here. Cermet isn’t a troll, but he’s sure acting like one. Complaining incessantly over multiple threads about an issue that is addressed here on a regular basis by a dedicated writer is trolling behavior.

  133. 133.

    Tenar Arha

    March 22, 2017 at 9:40 am

    I don’t know if anyone posted this yet, but here’s a good dog hero story that you’ll want to read in private (because there’s dusty atmospheric effects).

    Story h/t goes to @OfficerEdith (warning story includes child endangerment & dog abuse).

  134. 134.

    evodevo

    March 22, 2017 at 9:45 am

    @Patricia Kayden: My fundie co-workers voted for him (AND for our current Teabagger Governor) SOLELY on the basis of ‘bortion and gay marriage. Now they are whining because the guv deep-sixed KyNect, on which their relatives depend, and now The Great Cheeto is trying to repeal the federal version… I make a point of bringing this up every day I’m at work.

  135. 135.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 9:45 am

    @Tenar Arha: Great story. Peanut rocks. Go, shelter dogs.

    And Peanut helped in getting another child out of an unsafe environment too. Well done, pup.

  136. 136.

    Jeffro

    March 22, 2017 at 9:47 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    maybe Dolt 45 and ZEGS can create a Meat wagon force like the deportation force to pick up the dead.

    Why am I seeing two-sided trucks here – refrigerated on one side, prison bars on the other?

    Oh wait…combining operations would mean burning less gas, and less $$$ for ExxonMobil…never mind…

  137. 137.

    schrodingers_cat

    March 22, 2017 at 9:57 am

    @geg6: Did Cermet and Waldo support BS in the primaries? There seems to be a strong correlation between the prophets of doom and gloom and BS supporters since the election. Because there is nothing they would like better than to be proven right that both sides are awful and we all deserve to die.

  138. 138.

    Elizabelle

    March 22, 2017 at 10:00 am

    @schrodingers_cat: I think you might be on to something. Seriously.

  139. 139.

    Bruce K

    March 22, 2017 at 10:02 am

    @greennotGreen: Like I said, best-case scenario, but I’m not loving its odds. Well, best-case scenario for the Republic, worst-case scenario for the Republican Party, which is why I suspect they’ll do everything short of declaring martial law to prevent it happening, and maybe even not stop there…

  140. 140.

    Aleta

    March 22, 2017 at 10:07 am

    Traitorgate

  141. 141.

    SFAW

    March 22, 2017 at 10:15 am

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    He’s good, but he’s no Richard Mayhew.

    Yeah, whatever happened to him? Do we know if he’s OK? I don’t think Cole fired him, did he?

  142. 142.

    eclare

    March 22, 2017 at 10:28 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: What kills me about the term limits argument is that we DO have term limits, they are called elections.

  143. 143.

    O. Felix Culpa

    March 22, 2017 at 10:30 am

    @satby:

    we had rate increases and coverage shrink every year.

    Yes, this was happening regularly well before the ACA. The few wingers I know conveniently forget that. Apparently all was gumdrops and roses until Obama made medical costs rise.

  144. 144.

    geg6

    March 22, 2017 at 10:46 am

    @eclare:

    Exactly! I got into an argument with someone a couple of weeks ago about term limits and finally had enough and said exactly that. Shut her right the hell up. Said she hadn’t thought of it that way before.

    Jeebus, the stupid I deal with sometimes.

  145. 145.

    Waynski

    March 22, 2017 at 11:37 am

    @O. Felix Culpa:

    Yes, this was happening regularly well before the ACA. The few wingers I know conveniently forget that. Apparently all was gumdrops and roses until Obama made medical costs rise.

    Convincing people that things could have been much worse is rarely a successful political argument… See Wall St. bailout, stimulus package, etc.

  146. 146.

    EBT

    March 22, 2017 at 11:44 am

    @Cermet: Lying watercarrying Collaborating piece of shit. Tell the truth or eat a bullet.

  147. 147.

    J R in WV

    March 22, 2017 at 11:52 am

    @David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:

    You’re on quite a roll this morning. Good going, keep up the good work. Hard to pick the best post, I’m thinking the David Rockefeller one. No comparisons to Nelson’s passing? Sad.

  148. 148.

    J R in WV

    March 22, 2017 at 12:22 pm

    @Sab:

    One of my best friends was a roofer, but finally retired to doing timber work and farming full time, with beef cattle, a veggy greenhouse, and a sawmill he uses to cut his timber. That’s his “retirement” His farmwife is 72, has RA, retired social worker – works every day with him.

    His last several roofing jobs he insisted be sheet metal roofs, last longer, not as strenuous to build. I’ll never build a roof with anything but a metal roof again.

  149. 149.

    No One You Know

    March 22, 2017 at 1:45 pm

    @WereBear: Ghastly. And while my journey hasn’t been quite so dramatic, I’ve had done similar experiences. FWIW, my heart goes out to you.

  150. 150.

    rikyrah

    March 22, 2017 at 2:26 pm

    When a president simply lies too much
    03/22/17 08:46 AM—UPDATED 03/22/17 01:11 PM
    By Steve Benen
    The funny thing about Donald Trump’s wiretap conspiracy theory is that, from the outset, everyone knew he was lying. The sitting president accused his predecessor of ordering an illegal surveillance operation, as part of a Watergate-like scheme, and nearly the entire political world quickly reached a consensus: these claims are clearly not rooted in reality.

    As Trump’s falsehoods go, these were hardly the most dramatic – indeed, they’re not even the most shocking lie he’s told about Barack Obama – and it didn’t take long before the claims were discredited in bipartisan fashion. But there was something about this lie that gained traction in ways most of Trump’s other lies don’t. Apparently, when a sitting president makes demonstrably false claims about his predecessor committing a felony, many are inclined to believe there should be some kind of consequences for dishonesty at this level.

    Making matters much worse, when FBI Director James Comey testified before the House Intelligence Committee on Monday, confirming an investigation into the Trump campaign and further debunking Trump’s wiretap conspiracy theory, the president used his official White House Twitter account to make a variety of related claims, each of which was plainly untrue.

    The same day, the White House tried to tell the public that Trump’s former campaign chairman and National Security Advisor were unimportant, peripheral figures.

  151. 151.

    RoonieRoo

    March 22, 2017 at 2:49 pm

    @EBT: Seriously? Your comeback to someone pissing you off on BJ is tell them to commit suicide? I think the commenters here might be jumping the shark.

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