I don’t like to defend Trump, but it seems to me that the ACHA AHCA debacle is almost entirely Paul Ryan’s fault. Yes, the bill is such a shit sandwich that Trump never should have tried to serve it to the country, but Ryan’s the one that made the sandwich.
I realize this is probably some kind of agism or lookism or something like that, but Ryan has always seemed like a punk to me. I’d be willing to part with that decision if he wasn’t such a fraud policy-wise.
If Trump was smart, he’d try to get rid of Ryan as speaker. I hope he doesn’t though.
JPL
Bannon told Trump it was universal health care and everyone would be happy. In fact Trump was so happy that he got to sit in big rigs and toot horns.
we are so fked.
MobiusKlein
Trumpet made Ryan’s job much harder with the outlandish campaign promises.
NobodySpecial
In a logical world, Ryan would be dead man walking and out the door right after ACHA got voted down.
The current GOP, however, reminds me of nothing so much as that video of the praying mantis with the worm in it, still moving around until the parasite hatches. It would not surprise me if he just does work as a placeholder and the House comes to a complete standstill until 2018, with the two main warring camps unable to marshal enough support to move one direction or the other.
Major Major Major Major
Ageism? Ryan’s like 45. He’s just a twerp, always will be.
dmsilev
Sorry, don’t buy it. If Trump gave a scintilla of a rat’s ass about actual policy, he’d have realized what a shit sandwich RepubliCare was, but, well, he chose to be belligerently ignorant about everything, and he gets to reap the benefits thereof.
The Gray Adder
@JPL: That’s it. Hamilton Nolan at Deadspin/Concourse says treat Trump like a baby. Because he is one. The sort who wouldn’t shock you if he wet himself.
JPL
This is OT.. I just saw online that WV is a basket from tying Gonzaga. Is John okay?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Hey! Now I get to link to this again, and it’s on topic!
Buskertype
They have painted themselves into a corner, and then continued to paint any parts of the wall or ceiling they can reach from the corner. They will keep slathering fresh paint on until they collapse in exhaustion and just roll around in the paint. Many of them will get reelected anyway.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I hate his widow’s peak.
raven
@JPL: check his tweets
that was fucking awful but I hate huggins so fuck it
Elizabelle
Changing channels, hit Fox News Channel, with Lou Dobbs dolorously telling that nice Sean Hannity that “this has been a travesty” [ed: obviously, not for the reasons we think] and laying all the blame at Speaker Ryan’s [cloven] feet. They both clucked clucked over how badly he had handled it.
Sped on to through the next channels, smiling. Go for him, with knives in both hands.
efgoldman
The kkkrazy kkkaukus will take care of that for him.
As I said in the last thread, the RWNJ Republiklowns have been the lockstep party of NO for so long, and Granny Starver such a sad, feckless, incompetent excuse for a “speaker”, that they don’t know how to legislate any more.
As Nancy SMASH! could have told him, ideology is no substitute for politics and legislating.
Ric Drywall
Trump has already made his excuses for losing the midterms: they didn’t vote for the Ryan plan.
Roger Moore
I don’t think trump should try to get rid of Ryan until he has a plausible replacement. Just which ringmaster do you see as capable of running that circus?
Doug decker
I think it is AHCA, American Healthcare Act.
You aren’t th e first to use ACHA here though.
mdblanche
Ryan has certainly not covered himself in glory, but who could do his job better? Look at what he has to work with. One important advantage Pelosi has had over Ryan and Boehner as a leader is a better class of follower. You know, one that can be led.
JPL
@raven: Sad. CBS has on Kansas/Purdue.
dmsilev
@Roger Moore: Newt Gingrich is rested, ready, and available.
amk
The ratfucking shit weasel of a welsher has never owned up to any responsibility in his entire life. You don’t have to invent a new reason for him now, doug.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Paul! Look out! Here comes a bu…
oh well
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@raven: Doesn’t everybody hate Huggins? And the Eagles?
Trentrunner
Isn’t the lyric “friends,” not “men”?
Steeplejack (tablet)
@zhena gogolia:
Permasmirk.
Omnes Omnibus
There are people who are/were in a fraternity and there are frat boys.
Buskertype
@Roger Moore: the mind boggles!
Jeffro
@Major Major Major Major: classic gen Xer dickhead
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I knew there was another Young Guns (they were all north of 40) gif out there.
JMG
Maggie Haberman of the Times (yeah, I know, but she’s really wired into the Trump inner circle) tweets Trump has “begun to lose confidence how the Speaker has handled this.” If it wasn’t for that whole nuclear holocaust thing, I’d rather be rid of Ryan than Trump.
opiejeanne
@JPL: What was the truck thing about? I was busy planting potatoes and pruning fruit trees, and threatening the rudbeckia with sending them to another home.
Aleta
Paul Ryan, the good christian soul who forced soup kitchen volunteers to let him pretend to wash dishes in a kitchen they had just finished cleaning, so his staff could take a photo of him in his apron humbly serving the poor, who had all left because the meal was over by the time he arrived.
oldster
@Trentrunner:
My thought exactly.
Also, I hate the Eagles.
Peter
@mdblanche: Honestly, if you gave Pelosi the speakership right now without changing the House’s composition at all, you could govern the house with a minority of dems and probably peel off enough Republicans to get basic non-crazy legislation through.
That’s a pipe dream and would never actually happen, of course, but if it somehow did it would actually be much more functional than the current congressional majority. That’s how bad they are.
mdblanche
@dmsilev: If you check the Constitution, nowhere does it specify that the Speaker of the House actually has to be a member of the House. Just sayin’.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
@JMG:
Kind of suggests it won’t pass.
I guess there is no point in speculating.
Buskertype
@Roger Moore: on second thought, the answer is obviously whoever kisses trumps ass the most and the best.
Doug!
@Doug decker:
I have trouble with that.
Jeffro
@Roger Moore: probably won’t happen but one exciting thought is if Ryan is neutralized or forced out, and Trump tries to install one of the freedom caucus morons as speaker, The last few remaining republican moderates might defect and vote for a Dem as speaker
… oh never mind who am I kidding? Nev-er happen.
In other news I see the Democrats are asking that fucking moron Devin Nunes for evidence of his claims by tomorrow. PUSH HARD DEMS!!
Mnemosyne
Sitting at an Embassy Suites in Orange County drinking free wine, eating soup, and chillaxin’ before my writer’s conference tomorrow.
JPL
@opiejeanne: lol I have no idea, I just assumed that it was a way to keep Trump busy so Bannon could run things..
I’m not sure anyone knows.. https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/845093684962119680
My kids used to love the truck horns, so I can only imagine how much fun Trump had.
amk
@Buskertype: Nunes!!! Impeachment is off the table.
dmsilev
@mdblanche: I know. That’s why I floated the suggestion.
I suppose Dennis Hastert would be another possibility. Can you run the House from a prison cell?
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Jeffro: OT: drop me a line when you have time.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@opiejeanne:
Trump met with a group of trucking industry weasels today, and they brought a life-size Tonka cab for him to play with.
Bess
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Bannon pulls the strings. Getting rid of Ryan is pretty high on his bucket list.
I hope he succeeds. Most likely we’d see a Speaker from the rabid right who would never be able to put together the votes to pass anything more than naming a Post Office.
Major Major Major Major
@dmsilev: can’t Pence just be speaker?
@Bess: no way he’d be able to cobble together a post office coalition.
GregB
All hail Speaker Nunes!
efgoldman
@Roger Moore:
@JMG:
He has no say in the matter. None. In fact after his routine yesterday threatening the kkkrazy kkkaukus, less than none. Not that he understands that, or how congress works, or how anything else other than how his Big Mac works. Just like any undisciplined, tantrumy four year old.
randy khan
@dmsilev:
This. I’m not a Green Lantern type, but if the Administration had a scintilla of sense, it would have told Ryan & Co. to slow down and build consensus. Instead, they just left it in the House’s hands, endorsed the original, unpassable bill, and did nothing else until the last couple of days.
amk
By now, the dem cong critters must have learnt the valuable lesson of staying put together?
Jeffro
@oldster: I don’t hate the Eagles so much as I don’t need them because if necessary I could play any one of their billion slow California rock songs in my head at this point…
(Thanks, 80’s/90’s radio!)
… but why would I do that to myself?
JMG
It is beyond useless for us to try and speculate how the bill shakes out in the House. Very good reporters on twitter are succumbing to their innate biases, either the savvy (oh, it’s going down) or liberal gloom fret (oh, it’s gonna pass). They’re worn to a frazzle. If it does pass (6-5 bet for, maybe), next week in the Senate will be beyond insane. But at least maybe we’d all see what’s in it.
randy khan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
So the WH doesn’t think they have the votes.
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack (tablet):
Context is everything. If it had been Obama, I would have thought it was hilarious and adorable.
Of course, Obama actually managed to get legislation passed in his first 100 days. And not insult every ally we ever had. And not install his family members as official advisers. Need I go on?
lamh36
mai naem mobile
Am I the only who’s noticed that Paul Ryans nose has become longer/bigger. I am serious,not joking. He looks like he might have cancer on his nose or something. Or he hurt his nose but u didn’t see any bruising and I can’t believe he could use make up regularly as speaker to cover it. It’s bigger than just irritation from a bad cold.
Aleta
@Doug!: It’s easily confused with the American Crooks’ Hypocrisy Act.
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: trump can just not sign something. He absolutely has say.
Seth Owen
@Bess: I understand the sentiment but there’s a debt ceiling vote due and it would be nice to pass a budget someday, so some kind of functionality really is needed. It may come down to Pelosi in the end.
Mnemosyne
@randy khan:
Roger Moore
@mdblanche:
The Republicans can’t escape that easily. If they gave a damn about legislating, they could have been developing better followers. They could have been writing legislation that would actually do something and didn’t rely on magic asterisks because they can’t make the numbers work. They could have started writing and building support for the AHCA back in November. They’re dealing with the spoiled brat caucus because they’ve never tried to demand any discipline.
cmorenc
@DougJ:
I see what you’re trying to get at here – Ryan’s ACHA is mostly his own Randian creation assembled with ideological rather than practical pieces pasted together with under-gauged baling wire and thin glue too weak to bind the pieces together. But the debacle belongs as well to Trump for prominently campaigning on giving people (most particularly many of his core supporters) the promise of better health care coverage than Obamacare but much cheaper for them, without any plan beyond glib puffery of promises or understanding of any details of how health care and insurance work. Ryan lacked any real plan for health care insurance besides notions of using the tax system (credits or HSA tax-exemptions) to subsidize health insurance purchase, and transferring everything else to the state level – because Ryan ideologically detests the fact that politically there is any need for any federal plan at all wrt health insurance. And so the AHCA is what you get when Trump punts putting together any plan to fulfill his health insurance promises (beyond repeal of O-Care) to Ryan, who doesn’t believe in any federal government role in providing health care to individual citizens in the first place (beyond military personnel) and only grudgingly creates the appearance of any federal plan at all.
AdamK
Ryan is a dead-eyed sociopath who should be under community supervision.
amk
@JMG:
But it’s ok for you to keep speculating in every thread that this will somehow pass the house?
Buskertype
What is the procedure for removing a speaker? Can a majority of members call s vote somehow?
Aleta
@opiejeanne: It was a moving van, pulled right up to the white house, which coincidentally is a trick thieves use to empty a house of valuables.
mdblanche
@dmsilev: If you check the Constitution, nowhere does it specify that the Speaker of the House actually has to be able to leave his cell and show up in person. Just sayin’.
catclub
@NobodySpecial:
That would be too easy. The AHCA debacle goes down the memory hole and they start rolling back taxes for fatcats.
pseudonymous in nc
Turns out the ACA was built in a way that made it hard to unravel without causing grave political damage.
And Nancy SMASH! has given Ryan all the rope he needs to hang himself, regardless of whether this shitshow of a bill passes through the House. If it hurts Agent Orange, then good.
(Btw, can the White House occupier drive? I bet he can’t. He just has to cosplay in a big boy truck.)
Jinchi
I love that all we have to do to defeat Trump is wait for him to get bored.
Another Scott
@Seth Owen: They won’t do anything about the debt ceiling until they know how much their changes to Obamacare will cost, and until they figure out what they’re doing about the budget for next year. The Treasury is already juggling the books like they always do in these situations, and the drop-dead date isn’t until August-September. Other things will happen before then.
The ending of the Continuing Resolution at midnight ET April 28 is the next big one to watch.
Cheers,
Scott.
lamh36
@Elizabelle:
oldster
So who lives in Stefanik’s district? NY-21.
She’s on the fence, won’t talk to reporters.
Please, please phone her tomorrow morning. Pressure matters.
They’re going to spend tonight twisting arms, cutting checks, and telling lies.
Then they’re going to try to rush it through tomorrow before anyone knows what’s in it.
Stefanik is a gettable “no”. We need more of those.
I’m going to be calling Reed here in NY-23, mostly for the pleasure of making his life miserable.
He is so deep into Trump that he’ll be in the final bunker scene. He’s a lock on “Yes.”
But I can still taunt him about how he’s going to get hammered for his “yes,” and how he’s going to get betrayed by Trump anyhow.
We gotta keep the pressure up, people. I remember a bunch of Democrats, once, who got complacent and thought they had victory in the bag. It didn’t end well.
catclub
@Peter:
That is how bad we are. Al of us. Plenty of us know this and we cannot make anything like it happen.
lamh36
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: I don’t understand how Ryan can be blamed for this healthcare fiasco. Does anyone actually believe that Trump had a healthcare law which met his election campaign promises? He has nothing to offer.
Baud
@lamh36:
lol
efgoldman
@randy khan:
Asserts facts not in evidence, yeronner.
That suggests that someone in the maladministration has the first fucking idea how politics, legislation, and government work. They don’t, but worse, they KNOW they do. And Granny Starver isn’t any good at it either.
Major Major Major Major
When will people learn that everything Trump touches turns to shit, including you?
@efgoldman: wasn’t knowing all that Pence’s job?
mdblanche
@Roger Moore: True. And Ryan deserves a share of the blame for all that. But so do many others. And at this point replacing Ryan with a mythical Republican speaker who really did want to legislate in good faith and instill discipline in the caucus would fail because the problems have become too big for just one person to solve.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
it sounds like the House members are falling in line, still a lot of hard no’s– Mark Sanford (yeah, him), Ileana Ros-Leiten (sp?)– but I’m wondering how waverers feel about shit like this
if you’re afraid of a general election, or a true believer who really wants to gut all health insurance regulation, isn’t that sort of giving you permission to tell Ryan to pound sand? You don’t have to fear the Tweets so much?
Kelly O’Donnell just said, speaking anecdotally, she hasn’t spoken to any MoCs who have gone from no to yes.
jonas
Trump’s idea of victory is simply “making a deal” to get a bill through. That’s it. Doesn’t matter if the bill ends up being the exact opposite of what he promised his voters (cheaper premiums, better coverage, more benefits, etc.). He’s used to promising the moon, then stiffing the suckers who take him seriously.
lollipopguild
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: Not a big Huggy Bear fan but his team went farther than i figured they would and came close to beating Gondor. Eagles???? The band or a team?
amk
@Major Major Major Major: what if you are already a pos? #zegs
efgoldman
@randy khan:
Should’ve stopped right there.
All the brain power in the WH is multiplying a positive times a negative.
Chris
There’s plenty of blame to go around.
However, let’s say that the presence of a tragicomically unfit and hateable scumbag in the Oval Office makes it easy and tempting to pin any unusually bad developments on him (and God, will our media try), rather than admit what it really is, the entire party continuing to get worse and worse.
Another Scott
@Patricia Kayden: If the Speaker of the House decides to bring an important bill up for consideration, and rush it through before everything else, and trample all the rules in the process, and then it fails, then you bet it’s all on him.
The bill has his philosophical fingerprints all over it, also too.
Yeah, it’s his baby. Having it fail so spectacularly (assuming it does) is delicious.
But I don’t think it will mean that his tenure is necessarily over as Speaker. Who (quarter-way) sensible would replace him? Remember that McCarthy was supposed to take over after Boehner, but he couldn’t get enough support. Ryan had to be begged to take the job. There’s little indication that anyone else would get enough support to take over from him.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chris
@Aleta:
Holy Mary, how I wish I could fit that on a bumper sticker.
manyakitty
@Mnemosyne: Thank you! It’s been in my head all day!
Major Major Major Major
@amk: then you turn into shittier shit.
debbie
@efgoldman:
I loved Nancy’s comment about Trump having made a rookie mistake. That’ll eat at him for quite a while.
efgoldman
@Major Major Major Major:
Who the speaker is? Nope. If he had any allies or any skill at politics he MIGHT. But his act this week threatening members of the kkkrazy kkkaukus with campaigning against them means the house will be even more jealous of their prerogatives than they might already be. A president fucks around with the internal politics of either house at great peril.
ETA: If Amber Asswipe had any political experience, skill, connections or background he might have some background influence; he has none.
randy khan
@Mnemosyne:
Love it!
Last night I was hashtagging my Facebook posts with theydonthavethevotes.
dmsilev
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
At this point, why would they? If you’re one of the Freedum Caucus loons, you’ve gotten indications (excuse me, ‘promises’) that the Senate will pass whatever via reconciliation so why not hold out for your favored Soylent Green Is Poor People Act? And if you’re what laughingly passes for a moderate in the GOP, every change just makes this bill more of a shit sandwich that you’re expected to swallow with a smile.
chris
@Mnemosyne: Wait, you’ve forgotten the first granny. I did too.
Good night all.
catclub
This sounds like the helpful advice that GOP pundits give to Democrats, and versa visa.
danielx
That would be his natural inclination anyway, since Ryan publicly dissed him for various reprehensible words or acts during the election season. If there’s one thing that lord shortfingers never forgets – and it may the the only thing he never forgets – is a slight of any kind.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: There you go, being all factsy and all. Logical, even.
I don’t mind Ryan taking incoming. Trump is on his way to dead man walking, I would think, although he does have a base base of support.
randy khan
@oldster:
If reports of 8:00 votes are right, also email her.
Mnemosyne
@chris:
Linky no work. You fix.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
Ryan is treated as a policy wonk because he can string together coherent sentences sometimes. There are no domestic policy experts in Republican politics, outside of self-serving ‘economists,’ because Republicans don’t believe in using policy to improve people’s lives anymore. Asking people that don’t believe in government to govern is going to result in, well, this.
randy khan
@efgoldman:
Ah, c’mon, I did say “if.” It’s not like I suggested there was any reason to think they did.
catclub
@Major Major Major Major: I was amazed when I heard some GOP congressman say that he was taking Trump at his word and the interviewer did not laugh at him.
opiejeanne
@GregB:
He’s already in way over his head, I don’t think he’d survive it, not that I care.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Bill Clinton and the balloons.
Redleg
Ryan’s a punk because he’s a grown man who still thinks Ayn Rand was a brilliant thinker.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Prezactly.
efgoldman
@Major Major Major Major:
Pence is the dullest knife in the chandelier. I’m surprised that he knows how to tie his own shoes, or knows how to prepare a microwave TV dinner.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
FBI + Congress need to investigate the persistent allegations that Paul Ryan murdered 5 Rent Boys in Wisconsin.
Many, many people are saying this is true but the Ryan murders are being covered up by Trump and the White House.
Note: Ryan has refused to deny his involvement in the Green Bay murders.
Major Major Major Major
@efgoldman: i thought we were talking about influence over legislation.
Elizabelle
@efgoldman: “Mother” doesn’t do all that for him? Are we sure?
Doug decker
@Doug!: You fixed it. That’s all that matters.
chris
@Mnemosyne: So I see, try this.
ETA: No idea what happened to the first one. FYWP
efgoldman
@debbie:
I wish PBO had said it. THAT would have licked the stuffing out of Nectarine Littlescrotum’s Oreos but good!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
are the offices open? just leave messages?
Omnes Omnibus
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: It would play better in WI if you go with Racine rather than Green Bay. Just saying.
Mnemosyne
@chris:
I love Mrs. Robinson. My maternal grandmother lived with us for a while when my mom was terminally ill and helped keep us all together emotionally.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I almost hit a deer driving home from Racine once. Fuckin’ Racine.
J R in WV
@Jeffro:
Wait just a frickin minute!!!! I thought we were talking sports here, and the Philly Iggles!!!! Who brought up a Rock band!?!?!?!???
Huggins isn’t that bad. We stopped in town for a sandwich not long ago, and he came in, it was a greasy old sports bar. He was friendly enough. And he does a lot with the team he has to coach.
dmsilev
One of the Vox writers brought up an interesting point, which is that after the GOP took control of the House in 2010, they with great fanfare introduced a ‘Read The Bill’ rule specifying that all bills must be posted online for three days before a vote is taken.
You will no doubt be shocked to learn that the proponents of this bit of theater were unavailable for comment this evening.
amk
And the thugs thought it would be so cute if they repealed the Ocare exactly on the date it was passed. Morons.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: It’s Czechoslovakia, we zip in, we zip out, it’ll be like going to Wisconsin
Yeah, well, I got the shit kicked out of me in Wisconsin
Just one more canuck
@Baud: it would be irresponsible not to speculate
amk
@Major Major Major Major: or a floating turd that won’t be flushed away.
efgoldman
@Major Major Major Major:
Apparently one of us was.
Maybe I looked at the wrong antecedent comment.
Theoretically he does, yes. But he has no political skills, he spends valuable time slagging his own side, he has no actual real or political friends, and no-one to carry water for him. He doesn’t know shit, none of his “advisors” do either, and they’re incapable of learning.
Mnemosyne
@amk:
To be fair, they’ve never actually managed to pass legislation before, so they didn’t realize it was so hhhaaaaaarrrrddd, Mom!
Obdurodon
The only difference between Trump and Ryan is that Trump wants you eat you well done with ketchup, while Ryan will go with fava beans and a nice chianti. The style’s different, but the intent is the same.
J R in WV
@mai naem mobile:
So Ryan’s nose is growing. Doesn’t that mean he’s lying? Lyin’ Ryan, right!!
Like Pinocchio, right? Oops, he messed up his face!!!
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If you go to Wisconsin from the North Shore, you end up in Kenosha, which is your first mistake.
manyakitty
@efgoldman: Mother helps him.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I almost hit a raccoon coming back from O’Hare.
@Mnemosyne: Along the lake, virtually everything between Lake Forest and Milwaukee proper is a mistake.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Anya
I am praying for a gigantic failure but I am not counting my chickens yet. I seem to recall that everyone said ACA was dead before the Dems managed to pass the bill. Republican tribalism and saving Trump or fear of his crazy base might save this thing after all.
dnfree
I just read that Trump told the house to vote tomorrow and if it doesn’t pass, he’s going to leave Obamacare in place. That actually might be brilliant whichever way it goes. Gives the reluctant representatives the message that if they don’t do it this time, they don’t get another crack at it (so it might pass), and if it doesn’t pass, Trump blames Ryan for not getting it right. Someone might or might not then get around to actually improving the ACA, or they let it “fail”. (I know, it could all go wrong, but this is an interesting approach.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Hill switchboard is open, offices are not
I wonder if they listen to the messages in any case, especially with the vote scheduled so early
Aleta
@Mnemosyne: It’s hard being a grownup.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
As has been mentioned before, G is from Oak Park, and the other day he mentioned that they used to take his grade school to outdoor education in exotic Zion.
Could. Not. Stop. Laughing.
ETA: Our grade school went out to a place in the general direction of Rockford.
Smiling Mortician
@efgoldman: I’m reasonably sure PBO is saving his ammunition for when it’s truly needed.
amk
@dnfree: You really think twitler, zegs or any of the rethugs really thought this through?
jonas
@MobiusKlein: This, in a nutshell, is the whole problem. Republicans essentially spent the last 7 years — and Trump the past two — proposing the following:
1. Repeal Obamacare
2. ???
3. Profit!
They’re still a bit hung up on point two, but I’m sure in the next 12 hours they’ll find a brilliant solution.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Ever do Graue Mill? That and the river boat tour were the highlights of grade school trips.
dnfree
@amk: No, I don’t. But somehow Trump survived the Republican primary and then got elected president without being able to think any of it through. This may be a demonstration of how his “instincts” work.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeffro: A least he’s not a Boomer.
amk
@dnfree: Campaigning and governance are two entirely different things.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
crawl on MSNBC says trump sent PReibus and Bannon to make a list of friends and enemies (my terms), who’s for him and against him, they said.
I’m not usually much for trump being a mastermind, but I do wonder if he’s not thinking more of his tax returns being subpoenaed or a Russia investigating committee than about TrumpCare
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t think so. It doesn’t look familiar. Our school district seemed to do a lot of stuff out west near the Iowa border — in high school, we went to an archeological dig in that direction. I’ve seen the burial grounds inside the Cahokia Mounds and I think that was also in high school.
Aleta
-Politico
Flanders' Former Neighbor
Gypsy Kings do a kickin’ Hispanic cover of Hotel California. I kinda hate The Eagles, too.
Thru the Looking Glass...
O/T but interesting…
Michael Morell (ex-CIA) on Charlie Rose talking about what Nunes did yesterday… which means this show is really current…
From Morell’s explanation of what happened, one could infer the entire incident was a manufactured fraud, top to bottom, a deliberate hit set up to give Trump plausible cover for his frickin’ lies about being wiretapped by Obama…
I saw Nunes ‘apologizing’ on the ABC evening news and boy, did he NOT seem ashamed or contrite…
I’m calling foul… this whole thing was planned and staged, IMHO… to accomplish specifically what it did… give Trump a way to look justified in his ridiculous claims…
And Fox is already pushing the narrative… Mission Accomplished!
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Correct.
In his mind he’s got nothing to worry about; he’s done nothing wrong; it’s someone else’s fault
Always
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Weird. Maybe North and Western suburbs did different things. We went to it in Oak Brook in third grade.
efgoldman
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
Schiff said yesterday that Nunes did it on purpose to screw up the investigation. I’m not sure he’s that clever.
amk
party of fucking fiscal responsibility.
rikyrah
NO sympathy for these vipers
Aleta
-NYT
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
In third grade I was going to a broke Catholic school in Highland Park — I don’t think they had the funding for field trips.
amk
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Nope. Their lies are being unraveled every day. There is no master strategy here.
cokane
It’s not just Ryan. The thing is shit because of the entire party. It’s important to not just lay this blame at the feet of individuals either Trump or Ryan. There’s a profound rot that infects an entire half of our politics.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@efgoldman: Perhaps Nunes was just doing what he was told… and perhaps it was also done to give Trump cover, which it did accomplish… with those DUMB ENOUGH TO BE FOOLED BY SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
Morell did say there was a chance that someone w/in the Administration could have requested the unmasking that Nunes was complaining about…
Again, was this whole episode manufactured from start to finish to accomplish just what it did?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Reading through the comment thread here I realize we’re in uncharted waters – the part of the map that says “there be dragons” – on a pirate ship full of dynamite piloted by crazy people and no one knows how to get back and where the rudder is.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@amk: You might want to think twice about that…
Singing Truth to Power
And in the past seven years or so, hasn’t the GOP, led by the boy genius Ryan (not), tried to repeal Obamacare 37+ times? Wasn’t that enough time to think about putting together a coherent replacement? How in hell did Ryan ever get a reputation for being the wonky smart one? Seriously, seven years???
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Got it. I was in a well off suburban school.
Doug R
@Roger Moore: Steve King has been auditioning
jonas
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Except that even as a setup of some kind, that doesn’t make sense. Everyone knows that the NSA eavesdrops on foreign diplomats and suspected intelligence figures and, indirectly, their American interlocutors. Nunes, dim bulb that he is, seems to have wanted to seize on this as some sort of exculpatory evidence for Trump’s idiotic claims that he was “wiretapped,” but ended up just causing everyone to ask “what were Trump Org people doing talking to individuals the NSA was recording?”
amk
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Think about what? That twitler & co are somehow master strategists? Nope. The evidence to the contrary is being presented everyday.
pseudonymous in nc
Nunes is clearly not a smart person. But the Republican caucus seems to elevate idiots, even to committees where “not an idiot” would seem like a basic threshold.
I still think this turd of a bill scrapes through the House, though I wish I had Mark Meadows’ personal phone number to give him a bad night’s sleep.
patroclus
I’m still pessimistic, but would be ecstatic if I’m wrong.
bupalos
I really, truly, don’t understand what this post is about. The bill should be less Ryany and more Trumpier? Is there any meaning behind any of this?
Trump could give a shit what is in the bill, he doesn’t know or care about anything other than he wants redneck dummies to like it and hippies to hate it so he can win win win money money money. Ryan probably has a cadre of idiot 20-somethings with Rand in their eyes and wants them to think he’s John Galt– but one what passes Responsible American Laws-n-stuff, like George Washington, so he can screw the girls and the prettier ones among the boys. So he put together a fake-Randian fake-responsible shit sandwich for everyone to fake-eat. And the “Freedumb Cockus” is pretending it’s not Randian enough for them. Because who knows, maybe if they play super-coy hard ass, some of Paul Ryan’s fuckable Randian 20-somethings, who are either too smart or too stupid not to notice that this is just a half-mean, all-stupid, made-up shit sandwich that only cockroaches could love– maybe some of those fuckables will be deluded into admiring these Freedumb troglodytes. They could get their pasty white shriveled beaks wet by becoming the one true scotsman, without ever having to do the px-96 workout. Except there are like 25 of them, so they’ll probably all cave anyway.
UNLESS the radioactive turtle is actually somehow directing all this from the senate to keep this off his desk, because he can’t fuck a fuckable Randian 20-something even with a fracking truck full of viagra anywho, and who wants the bother otherwise, since Actual Person Who Works Obama solved all his problems lo these 7 years ago. And since he’s pretty ripe to die any minute anyway.
Doug R
@oldster: Get Over It.
jonas
@efgoldman:
Yeah, if by screw up the investigation you mean “expose yourself to obstruction of justice charges” and “pretty much make an independent counsel necessary,” then yeah. I don’t think that’s what Nunes was up to, though. I think he was just a dimwit who wanted to suck up to Trump and stepped in his own dick in the process.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@jonas:
true and don’t forget that Trump isn’t playing to you or me… he’s playing to the Fox News demographic…
Current headlines at Fox News Insider:
Yeah… this incident didn’t help Trump at all…
Burnspbesq
@lollipopguild:
You may want to re-think your anti-Gonzaga stance. Karnowski is looking at you with an odd grin, and he’s holding a knife, a fork, and a big bottle of Cholula.
japa21
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Listening to Nunes, I was remembering the reports of how the Obama administration was so alarmed by the things being found that they were afraid it would get buried by the Trump folks. To prevent this,they spread info through several different intelligence agencies. That is what Nunes was talking about. I don’t know if he had anything more specific than that. I do agree with you that this was a set up with the WH but it failed massively. Instead of the focus being on Obama malfeasance, the focus is on Nunes.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@amk: That’s right… that’s why Trump is in the WH… why the GOP currently controls both houses of Congress and the majority of state legislatures & governorships…
Mnemosyne
Totally OT, but I have to say that Hilton seems to be up-to-the-minute with their apps. For my weekend stay at Embassy Suites, I was able to check in, pick a room, and enable my phone to be used as the room key. That means that I was able to pull in, park my car, go directly to my room, and open the door without ever having to go to the front desk. Magic!
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
City Editor’s face lights up… “Run that baby!”
Thru the Looking Glass...
@japa21:
Right… massive failure… except over at Fox News…
amk
Electoral victory means jacksquat if it accomplishes jacksquat. You are welcome to believe whatever pox news spews.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Mnemosyne:
Well, you shouldn’t have been Racine home in such a hurry!
(I’ll be here all week….)
Kropadope
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Media complicity in deception, unethical political releases by the FBI, Russian document dumps, and endemic racism do not a grand strategy make. They aren’t players of 11 dimensional chess, they are the beneficiaries of disparate third parties propping them up.
bupalos
I always thought it was pretty pretty boys she calls FRIENDS. It doesn’t make sense to me this way.
Jinchi
@Patricia Kayden: @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m going to guess ‘No’.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Kropadope:
Yes, and that is why they are in control of the country in the moment…
Thru the Looking Glass...
@bupalos: That is what the song says… friends… I’ve been listening to it a lot recently… actually watching concert footage from 1977 or 1978… they were a pretty strong live band at that point…
Kropadope
@Thru the Looking Glass…: So which is it? You’re letting your sarcasm get in the way of your point. You now seem to be arguing that they both are and aren’t master strategists.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Kropadope: ya know… they remind me of what someone once said about the old Mafia guys… not the brightest guys on the block but they had a kind of dog cunning about them… street smarts… the ability to figure out a nasty scam or charade doesn’t necessarily mean someone has the smarts to know how run the country well…
Richard Nixon was a pretty smart guy and he was also so blinded by his own resentment that he got into the kind of trouble he did…
So many people here keep saying, they’re dumb! they’re dumb!… including me… and yet… they ARE in control of the govt right now… perhaps we’re not as smart as we like to think either…
Kropadope
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
That they know how to speak to the lizard brain (all due respect to actual lizards) doesn’t suggest to me any form of intelligence, but rather an innate understanding of how to activate the stupidity in others. They have a whole media industry built around it and it’s still barely enough for them. The mask has slipped not only off their face, but to the ground and down a drain. The “oughta know better” crowd won’t be giving them the benefit of the doubt anymore.
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Kropadope: I agree completely w/ that analysis… and we had to be pushed to this point to WAKE UP and realize what they’ve been up to… I’d reckon the Russians have been setting up and moving in on us for at least a decade, if not longer… they just did it in tiny little increments, very quietly… this is just their ‘gotcha moment’, when they felt it was time to pounce… and they just got lucky w/ Trump winning… a long, long, long shot that paid off…
Yes… ‘they’ play to the lizard brain in their followers… they’re not even trying to reach you or me and they probably feel and hope they’ll never have to… and right now, they control the country…
NotoriousJRT
Evil Trump punted policy (he did not know that healthcare was complicated!) to Malicious Ryan. Neither of them have any idea what their constuents need & face when it comes to healthcare. For Trump, it was and is a throwaway line to he rubes. For Ryan, it is an ideological wet dream become real. They are bookends of nasty incompetence. They share the blame for this clusterfuck.
Yarrow
Just getting caught up. The vote is scheduled for early tomorrow? What time?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Yarrow: 8 am, I believe
ETA: just saw the first vote is at 10, apparently a lot of procedural votes remain
Jim, Foolish Literalist
these people are moved to tears, tears of pride and joy, at the thought of taking health care away from poor people
This is freedom
WWJD, motherfuckers
Yarrow
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thanks! That’ll give me a little time to call in the morning.
TS
@randy khan:
He did the opposite – he told them he wanted the health care law NOW – his supporters don’t like that Obamacare wasn’t repealed in Day 1.
jl
I disagree with DougJ on most points. Trump is just as guilty as Ryan, and on multiple perspectives on intersecting levels (as Lil’ Newtie would say). Trump is the leader of the GOP (I couldn’t type that without laughing, but fact remains, he is). it’s his job to help shape legislation that passes and reflects his policy goals (ha ha, I couldn’t type that without laughing either).
Things are complicated for Trump since he lied so much, and spouted so much fantastical, incoherent and contradictory nonsense, about his policy goals, but that is Trump’s problem.
I also disagree that Ryan is a punk, Ryan is a crummy snot nosed little punk.
We agree that Ryan is a fraud, and he made this fecal sammich all by himself and should be proud.
Edit: and I’ll pray that Ryan and El Trumpo Grande’s streak of luck continues all through tomorrow.
TenguPhule
@NobodySpecial:
In a just world, I’d be leading half the Balloon-juicers here in a conga-dance line over Ryan and Cheney’s graves while doing french cancan kicks into Bush II’s crotch while he was chained up in the stocks next to them and waving at Trump’s head on a spiked pike.
Skippy-san
@NobodySpecial: Ryan dead. That has such a nice sound to it.
Applejinx
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
Rot doesn’t hit just half of a thing.
Where are our own radical liberal rethinkings of how government can really work? “They suck” isn’t enough anymore. We get that.
If my Senator from Vermont (to be tactful, but still not call him a murderous catamite) can’t come up with sensible plans for governing this country, can some of the proudly wonky Dems please get to work doing that, and do their best to communicate and show their work?
Again, ‘the bad guys suck’ isn’t enough. We know that. Show an alternative and it’ll be a huge hit. That happened in the Presidential primaries even with alternatives that maybe weren’t super practical and were mostly talking points, less implementation. Maybe that only worked because it was in a vacuum, go ahead and co-opt that space. What more is there to lose?