NEWS – No AHCA vote today, per GOP source. Still possible tomorrow
— John Bresnahan (@BresPolitico) March 23, 2017
Right now the whip counts are going in the right direction. New York Times is up to 31 Republican No’s. I am reluctant to have too much faith in that number as a good number are House Freedom Caucus who can be bought off by making the bill atrocious through provisions that will get stripped in reconciliation. But every minute that they have to spend defending this monstrosity of a bill is a win for liberals, progressives, Democrats and people who either currently need or may at any point need the protections of the ACA.
I don’t know if we’re going to win, but we’re doing a whole lot better today than I thought we would have been on November 10, 2016.
If you have a chance, call Congress.
If you have a solid No, thank them. Their interns will appreciate it.
If you have a lean No, remind them they really don’t want to throw pregnant women off of coverage nor grandparents out of nursing homes.
If they are a solid Yes, remind them that this bill has 17% support in the general public and under 40% support in Republican circles and that 2018 is not that far away.
Update 1
Tom Cole also told me + @jonkarl vote aiming for tomorrow but could come as late as Monday. A "mistake" to let members home for weekend tho
— Rick Klein (@rickklein) March 23, 2017
Feedback works people. Let Congress know that their jobs are at stake because our lives or the lives of our friends are at stake.
LAO
Good news for John McCain.
Baud
Today was supposed to be auspicious because that’s when Obamacare was signed. Then again, tomorrow is the anniversary of the Exxon Valdez disaster, so it’s also auspicious in its own right.
patrick II
In my district I will remined him that he will be able to throw pregnant women off of coverage and grandparents out of nursing homes.
Mnemosyne
I do enjoy that the Republicans’ own incompetence robbed them of their chance to be petty. Sure, they’re going to try the same thing tomorrow, but at least they failed today.
Thru the Looking Glass...
From Politico:
Gosh, does this mean folks are gonna wake up in the morning and find a horse’s head in their beds?
Corner Stone
Looks like BJ Dick MayhewAnderson scores a first round technical knock out of Fighting Policy Paulie Blue Eyes.
Wonder how the rematch will turn out.
schrodingers_cat
Does what’s going on in the United States right now have a historical precedent, where a democratically elected body has voted to strip benefits from the populace.
Three-nineteen
What if your representative is Paul Ryan?
Ian G.
I have to guess that the more this bill is gutted to appease the Freedumb caucus, the more likely that spineless assholes like Peter King will become “no” votes. I’m glad I don’t live in that jerkoff’s district but I kinda wished I did at this moment so I could bombard him with calls.
I’m going to call my Dem rep Kathleen Rice and say thanks.
Baud
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Hahahaha. What a dealmaker!
raven
Just back from Atlanta and I caught a bit of Hannity talking abut how stupid republicans are!!!
Kay
I was wrong. I thought they would fall in line rather than… totally humiliate President Trump! :)
You could even say “emasculate”. One could say that. As a suggestion.
Betty Cracker
When my GOP rep was facing down an angry mob of mostly older white folks at his town hall last week, he tried to calm the jeering by assuring us that Trumpcare as then constituted wasn’t the final product. “It’s a nine-inning game, and this is only the third inning,” he said. Today, I reminded him via phone call and email that this is the ninth inning, and we’re watching. AFAIK, he hasn’t indicated how he’s going to vote yet. I’ll stay on the bastard.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I guess the House GOP got tired of so much Winning
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Stripping benefits happens all the time. Usually not on this scale, not in the absence of an alternative policy as here, or with this sort of process.
Iowa Old Lady
As Nancy Pelosi, used to say first you get the votes. Then you take the vote. We shall see.
TenguPhule
A battle, not the war.
We have to win every battle. Evil only has to win once.
germy
@Three-nineteen:
Call and tell him Ayn Rand advocated bleach drinking.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Or castrate. I’m good with castrate for Trump.
zach
I dunno congressional procedure to know if it’s possible, but I think an immediate repeal of all tax cuts plus everything that doesn’t immediately and negatively impact care, paired with some sequester-like time-bomb for everything else, would pass pretty easily and even get some Dem votes. Gives up on Paul Ryan’s keg stand dream to kill Medicaid, but otherwise meets GOP demands. Few complained about the sequester even though it was idiotic. Push the kill date out far enough and move the vote up soon enough to prevent a coordinated lobbying campaign and it might work.
Miss Bianca
Just called Scott Tipton’s office and an intern picked up right away! Wow – wasn’t expecting that!
TenguPhule
@Three-nineteen:
Pray for a painful terminal medical condition to swiftly remove him from office.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: This is more than stripping benefits, its more like cutting your constiuents’ throat. I was also thinking of EOs that would destroy the ability of several government agencies to function properly. Giving up foreign policy gravitas on a global stage and becoming a regional power. And the list goes on..
dr. bloor
I foresee a voting process where Ryan goes through the chamber in the middle of the night, meeting with reps one by one, showing them the bill on his laptop, typing in their suggested changes and getting their yes votes as he goes. He gets his “ayes” and the members can stand up in front of their constituencies saying that they had no idea such-and-such was snuck into or taken out of the bill.
Parallax
Good work DSCC. GIVE ‘EM HELL!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju3K9bqPTeM
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: Really? I’d choose the latter over the former.
On second thought, I’d rather not contemplate either one.
zmulls
My representative is Meehan in PA, who is sitting in a very susceptible district. Other suburban Philadelphia reps, like Fitzpatrick, have come out as “No” but Meehan voted for it in committee.
I just called the local office, and the staffer said he was reading the legislation and hadn’t come to a final decision yet (which I heard as, yeah, he voted for it, but now he’s seriously thinking he made a mistake). So I pointed out the current discussion to remove the EHB, making a terrible bill toxic, and told him to put me down as “Against” — at which point the staffer was careful to get my name and address right.
I think this is swingable. The momentum is in the right direction and fence-straddlers in suburbs are subject to pressure.
Major Major Major Major
Looks like those clowns in congress did it again, what a bunch of clowns.
Anderson, what’re your odds at now?
catclub
@Kay:
Because Trump is weak and could not close the deal.
gene108
@schrodingers_cat:
I do not know about specific benefits, but people’s rights get stripped regularly.
In the past the government did not offer much in the way of benefits for Congress to strip.
Barbara
@Thru the Looking Glass…: That made me laugh. What exactly is he offering to them that he gets to take away if they don’t agree with him? They’ll still be there tomorrow and he isn’t their boss.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
And then selling their organs for profit and charging the grieving family for all the costs involved.
Or as our modern Republicans call it, winning bigly.
catclub
@dr. bloor: I was thinking they cancel the vote, then forget to tell the democrats it has been re-scheduled.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
“We are going to make the best deals!”
Roger Moore
@schrodingers_cat:
I think I read about something similar happening in Australia. The left voted for some kind of health care reform, and the right voted to repeal it the next time they were in power. The repeal was sufficiently unpopular that the left won the next election and reinstated universal health care. The right apparently learned its lesson and didn’t try to take it away again the next time they were in power.
DCrefugee
@Betty Cracker: Confirmed: I spoke with Buchanan’s Sillysota office yesterday, and they professed he hadn’t made up his mind. What an asshole…
Barbara
@schrodingers_cat: In 1988 Congress repealed outpatient prescription drug and long term care coverage for Medicare beneficiaries because of a populist uprising of entitled seniors who resented having to make income based payments for the coverage. So yes, sort of.
SatanicPanic
Sean Spicer:
That’s it! Oh, whoops. Spicer is the new Kristol.
germy
Not so fast, liberals!
Check and Mate, libs!
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: The loss of international stature was baked in on election day.
themann1086
@zmulls: Meehan is such a weasel. I’m sure he’ll vote for it, but I’ve been doing what I can to get him to fold.
Kay
@TenguPhule:
He’s horribly vindictive and petty. This won’t sit well with him AT ALL :)
dmsilev
Still possible “tomorrow”, huh?
Can we get a flash mob assembled outside Paul Ryan’s office singing “Tomorrow” from Annie?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I’m Shocked! I’m Shocked!
How could someone who killed 3 ca$in0$, destroyed an entire football league, declared bankruptcy 6 times, and blew a $200,000,000 inheritance FAIL at the Art of the Deal?
Kay
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Yeah, right. Trump made all the concessions. One more thing he’s bad at.
TenguPhule
@Kay: I would hope not. Trump has the tiniest balls. Sad. Soft nuts, like little slimy jelly beans. Stomped on by bickering Republicans in the house. Loser.
XTPD
@TenguPhule: TSE-diphtheria-Ebola-tetanus, anyone?
bystander
@Three-nineteen:
Refer TenguPhule to them.
Hoodie
This could be a bit of worm turning. The bill is a loser, trump is a loser and a bunch of winger GOP reps will view this as an opportunity to stick it to Ryan while not having to worry about retribution from trump. The “moderates” will just be worried about keeping their phony baloney jobs and won’t have anything to do with it.
TenguPhule
@XTPD: Black Plague.
I’m fond of the classics.
Major Major Major Major
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Don’t forget “failed at selling steak to Americans”!
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I still cannot believe that people looked at T and decided that it would be a wonderful idea to elevate him to the highest office in the land.
Peale
Yep. I really hope that they do end up voting for something that strips away the popular parts of ACA. There’s really no reason why the poor, the sick, and the self-employed need to bear the this monstrosity on their own.
Kay
People did such a good job! Bravo.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat: Because EMAILS!
Tom Levenson
Called Joe Kennedy’s office yesterday, thanking the Congressman for his (I assumed) “No” vote. The intern laughed and told me my assumption was correct. Here in royal blue MA-4, that’s about the limit of the job on this bill.
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
“Jam yesterday, and jam tomorrow, but never jam today!”
— Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: You forgot smallpox.
germy
Here’s how the NYTimes put it:
Baud
@germy: The NYT is such garbage.
Gravenstone
@dr. bloor: Please to not be offering them ideas. Thank you very much.
/Latka Gravas
Iowa Old Lady
I’m still steaming about stripping maternity care because men don’t need it. Apparently babies are magically made only by women.
Major Major Major Major
@germy: shocked, gambling, etc.
Gravenstone
@Kay: Those are the sorts of numbers one wants to see. It’s also good of the Congressman to admit that he’s actually willing to listen to his constituents, at least on this issue.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I haven’t checked out NYT since October, and don’t have any regrets.
Barbara
@Iowa Old Lady: And men don’t give a flying fuck about the health of their offspring, let alone the mother of their children. I mean, either you are a mother or you have a mother or both. It’s like the lowest common denominator you can imagine for humankind. They can’t even muster that much empathy.
Gravenstone
@Iowa Old Lady: Not made only by women, but clearly only the wimmen’s responsibility to birth and raise.
/wingnut
schrodingers_cat
@Roger Moore: Mean spirited and nasty, good to know there is company.
schrodingers_cat
@Iowa Old Lady: They call themselves pro-life.
germy
trollhattan
Spicy uses the “He who smelt it, dealt it” defense.
Don’t ever change, Spicy.
PPCLI
@Iowa Old Lady: Given that men have lower life expectancy, higher rates of heart disease, higher rates of cancer, … higher rates of catastrophic “hold my beer” accidents like no-helmets-on-motorcycle [I am assuming on this one] … etc. I have a feeling that selling separate policies for men and women would mean that women pay significantly less.
Surprising that nobody has pointed this out to all the old geezers who love this talking point.
germy
https://www.apnews.com/d43ef4166da6400ab45140978854bbbb
Elizabelle
@Barbara: And this from the “pro life” caucus.
It is to laugh. Except it’s so serious that these psychopaths have so much power.
hovercraft
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Hater!!
Why are you harping on FAKE NEWS, he has never declared personal bankruptcy. Yes he may have manipulated it so that his personal debts were discharged in those 6 bankruptcy proceedings but that doesn’t count.
He’s president and you’re not, so shut up!
Barbara
@PPCLI: You would be wrong. I can’t say exactly why you are wrong, but women use more health care services, if you believe actuaries. Maybe men are more likely to drop dead first without having investigated their symptoms.
The Moar You Know
@schrodingers_cat: He’s a symptom, not the problem. The problem is the vast numbers of people who thought he was the best choice to be there.
And short of herding 60+ million Americans – which, apologies to TenguPhule, I can’t go there – into FEMA camps or gas chambers, it’s a problem I truly have no idea how to solve. Don’t even know where you would start.
Iowa Old Lady
@PPCLI: I’m not sure of the numbers either (though I’ll bet David knows), but I think maybe gynecological care drives up costs for younger women (assuming we count pregnancy costs only against women, which seems wrong). It’s older men who I wonder about. How do their costs compare to those of older women?
randy khan
@Hoodie:
I do wonder if the biggest part of this is the potential damage to the President at a time when the Administration already appears to be reeling. His brand is all about being able to close the deal – it’s a key part of his appeal to WWC voters, and he’s assiduously cultivated that brand since the election (particularly in announcing job deals that weren’t really deals or, worse, actually were terrible deals for the country). Now it kind of looks like he choked on the big one.
PPCLI
@hovercraft: And, as he was at pains to point out during the debate: when the man who prides himself on never settling ponied up major cash to settle the lawsuit for not renting to blacks, the settlement didn’t involve an admission of guilt! Gotcha, libs!
Barbara
@Iowa Old Lady: The longer you live the more services you require, maybe not in a given year but over time.
Tim C.
@Baud: Hate to defend the NYT, but…. well, no I can’t defend them, they suck on toast, but they still don’t really grasp at a gut level what the GOP is these days.
Bg
Ros-Lehtinen is a firm No. She probably did it just to make me stop calling, but I called today anyway to thank her.
There are “Obamacare” signs on practically every bus, bus bench and billboard in her district.
Focusing now on getting Bill Nelson, the gutless wonder, to filibuster Gorsuch
Mnemosyne
@PPCLI:
As Barbara said, women do use more healthcare than men. Now, if we were debating national life insurance, that’s where women would be getting a huge discount compared to men.
Elizabelle
@The Moar You Know: You would reduce the influence of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, to begin with. That is not merely “free speech.” It’s fake news and rightwing propaganda, meant to make our country ungovernable.
It’s 21st century Radio Rwanda, in the heartland. Bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Stop treating their “entertainers” as journalists.
We need to stop letting them radicalize the more simplistic among us. Better information does not work, nor does pure goodness, when they’ve been radicalized and made cynical and ugly.
We need to stop this. It’s poison, not free speech. We have seen where this leads before, and it’s tragic.
Chris
@schrodingers_cat:
From what I know of it, Pinochet’s Chile might be a good bet. It was a cult-of-the-free-market regime years before Thatcher or Reagan, which probably explains why wingnuts continue to have such love for the guy.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
WTH, I have at no time seriously advocated for Gas chambers and resent being implicated as such.
Major Major Major Major
@Barbara: exactly this. Dying younger, on average means you didn’t live long enough to get to the really expensive stuff.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
I think we’re going to have to start writing it trump, since it’s now clear that he’s a low t beta.
Barbara
@The Moar You Know: The best intuitive explanation I have heard is that when you are scared that your power is slipping relative to others, the more you like the idea that someone like you is in charge. As between Clinton and Trump, voters in rust belt states — which is all we are really talking about as the swing factor from the prior two elections — identified more with Trump. In reality, it is more complicated, because most of the swing is attributable to voters not bothering to vote at all. It was a historically low turn out for a presidential election.
PPCLI
@Barbara: Ah. I stand corrected. Men die cheaper. Makes sense, now that I think of it that way.
Barbara
@Bg: She has more than 90,000 people in her district who are covered via ACA — among the largest of any congressional district. Lincoln Diaz Balart is another but he has apparently gone into hiding.
Elizabelle
@Tim C.: Something has happened at the New York Times in the last 2 years or so. Their idiot headlines and reporting focus cannot be an accident.
They are garbage. As President Baud accurately informs.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
The problem is that you’re not the only one making a decision here, those 60 million batshitinsane Republicans are too.
p.a.
@Thru the Looking Glass…:
Or possibly a Russian’s head.
Major Major Major Major
@The Moar You Know: yeah, be fair, he only calls for full-on civil war leading to the violent overthrow of the government of the world’s foremost superpower based on political differences. Nothing so outlandish or offensive to your delicate sensibilities as concentration camps.
Baud
@Barbara:
It wasn’t.
TenguPhule
@Barbara:
Point of order, not all of us are Republicans or evil bastards.
Barbara
@Elizabelle: What happened is they hired three “stars” from Politico who are basically not much more than political gossip columnists. They still have good investigative reporters and they have provided a lot of informative articles and graphics on the ACA, but Maggie Haberman and a couple of others are just awful.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
As Baud said, it was not actually a low-turnout election nationwide. Interestingly, however, it was lower turnout in those states like Wisconsin and Michigan that implemented suppressive voter ID requirements. Surprise, surprise …
ETA: Here in blue California, over 75 percent of registered voters turned out!
Barbara
@Baud: Okay. If you say so.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: I’m not calling for it, just pointing out that we’re getting it whether we want it or not. You may not believe in the bear, but the bear certainly believes in you.
TenguPhule
@Thru the Looking Glass…: Too subtle for Trump. Look for an “enemies” list to be circulated among his more unhinged and better armed supporters.
Barbara
@TenguPhule: Turn on your irony and sarcasm meter.
HeleninEire
Bubba was in Dublin yesterday and up in Derry today for Martin McGinnis’ funeral. Bill is looking old but he did the eulogy and he’s still got his rhetorical skills for sure.
Major Major Major Major
@Barbara: well, it wasn’t.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Same here in the People’s Republic. 75% of registered voters turned out.
Baud
@Barbara:
2016 turnout — 136,669,237
2012 turnout — 129,085,406
2008 turnout — 131,313,820
(wikipedia)
rikyrah
@Kay:
BWA HA HA AH AH AH AHH A HA HA HA
TenguPhule
@Barbara: Your shotgun approach was too broad, the noise to signal ratio was scrambled. More nuance for the detector next time, please.
Iowa Old Lady
@HeleninEire: Do you read Adrian McKinty’s Sean Duffy series, Helen? They’re set in Belfast during the Troubles, and I really enjoy them.
Ruviana
@Chris: I didn’t read down the thread but given that Pinochet was installed via a U.S. backed coup it doesn’t really meet the standard for “democratically elected.” Apologies if someone has already made this point.
danielx
@schrodingers_cat:
Read an interview with Matt Taibbi where the interviewer says, roughly: “your take is that Trump basically said ‘vote for me and you’ll horrify them all’. And sixty million people said ‘I’m in'”.
janeform
@Gravenstone: Kildee is a dem. Represents Flint, MI.
Major Major Major Major
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
Damn those women, actually taking care of themselves!
These are the type of savings ZEGS and Co. love. HSA, and super high deductibles so you can say you have coverage but since you never get to use it it’s economical. WIN !
Chris
@Ruviana:
… my eyes somehow skipped over the “democratically elected” part. Probably an inner part of me that still violently rejects the Trump electoral victory. Mea culpa.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: But can we? Don’t you have to be masculine in the first place, to be emasculated. How can you take away something that was absent in the first place.
TenguPhule
@danielx: Cleek’s law. One of the fundamental forces of this universe.
jeffreyw
My Rep is Mike Bost (R) and he is “reviewing the bill”. Coward will wait to see which way the vote is going, if there be one.
rikyrah
@Barbara:
CHICKENSHYT.
schrodingers_cat
@danielx: How would you characterize JS voters?
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: next trip outside of the States, provided we survive long enough, I’m pretending to be Canadian.
JMG
@Baud: It was not a low turnout election, but you have to allow for growth in registered voters, which was a record high in 2016. Percent of eligible voters was a little higher than in 2012, lower than in 2008, but all three were very close to each other.
jeffreyw
@Major Major Major Major: They let him honk the horn! WOO-WOO! He appeared to be making VROOM-VROOM noises with his mouth.
Ruviana
@Chris: I’m with you there! I’d prefer easy governing to all the “interesting” experiences we’re having right now!
rikyrah
GOP Proves Why We Need Independent Investigations
by Nancy LeTourneau March 23, 2017 8:08 AM
As Martin reported yesterday, Rep. Devin Nunes, chair of the House Intelligence Committee, took unprecedented steps yesterday to brief both the press and subsequently the White House on information he had received about communications that may be by or about Trump and his associates that were intercepted due to “incidental collection” during an unrelated, completely legal FISA-approved investigation. He further stated that these intercepts happened after the election – during the transition period.
In other words, while Nunes may have obstructed justice by sharing this information with the White House, nothing he said is related to what Trump tweeted on March 4th.
…………………………………….
I say all that because it is obvious who is hoping to benefit from the firestorm Nunes created. Beyond that, it is important to remember that Trump’s tweets were part of his pattern to lie, distract and blame when he feels threatened. In other words, pointing the finger at Obama for wiretapping him was meant to overshadow the fact that he and his campaign are under investigation for possible collusion with the Russians to influence the outcome of the election. Nunes announcement today was designed to put that lie back in the headlines.
That is why later in the afternoon, ranking member on the committee Rep. Adam Schiff had a few things to say about all this. First and foremost he said that Rep. Nunes needs to decide if he is going to chair an independent investigation or act as a surrogate of the White House – because he can’t do both.
Schiff went on to explain that none of the information Nunes referred to had been shared with committee Democrats or Republicans. All of them learned about it the same way we did – via Nunes’ statement to the press. He also said that sharing the information with Trump and his team was inappropriate given that they are the targets of the investigation.
germy
dmsilev
@Major Major Major Major: Having him sit in the cab making vroom vroom noises is probably, all in all, the best use of his time.
Hobbes83
Still waiting on the villagers to start writing articles urging Trump to “show some leadership” and try to get some Democrats to vote for this bill, like they suggested president Obama do in 2010. Oh yeah, those articles will NEVER. FUCKING. BE. PENNED. I wonder why…
rikyrah
Republicans Own This Health Care Debacle
by Nancy LeTourneau March 23, 2017 12:40 PM
There are two reasons why I won’t refer to the Republican bill to repeal/replace Obamacare (AHCA) as “Trumpcare.” The first is that to suggest that Trump actually “cares” about the impact of this bill on the American public strains the imagination.
The second reason is that Trump is actually a johnny-come-lately to this whole fiasco. He simply embraced the repeal of Obamacare to further his standing with the Republican base to launch his presidential ambitions. On the other hand, whether the Republican bill passes today or not, they need to be held accountable for this fiasco because they have always been against any kind of meaningful health care reform.
In 2013 Josh Marshall released a memo written by Bill Kristol dating back to 1993 when the Clinton administration was in the midst of working on health care reform. In it, Kristol laid out a strategy of total obstruction for Republicans.
……………………………………………
In the end, with an assist from the insurance companies, Republicans were able to stop the Clinton health care reforms.
The Republicans revived the strategy of total obstruction when Obama initiated his efforts to reform health care. They were successful in stopping any Republican from voting for it – but were unable to keep it from passing a Democratically dominant Congress. During the discussion and after it’s passage, Republicans lied ruthlessly about what came to be known as Obamacare. It was described as government controlled health care that included death panels and would lead to job losses, to name just a few.
In addition, the Republicans launched law suits against Obamacare and came close to stopping it’s implementation via a case that made it to the Supreme Court. In the end, many Republican governors and legislators decided that ideology and obstruction would win out over the financial and health interests of their own citizens and refused to expand Medicaid.
Throughout all of that, Republicans vowed to repeal Obamacare and cast many unsuccessful votes to do so. They even shut the government down for a while over it.
The charade that Republicans ever had any better ideas of how to reform our health care system was exposed almost immediately after the 2016 election when they gained majorities in congress combined with a Republican president. We’ve watched them go from “repeal and replace” to “repeal and delay” and back to “repeal and replace.” Now we know that their “replace” plan will actually mean that 24 million Americans lose their health insurance, rich folks will get a huge tax cut and Medicaid will be decimated – leaving the situation worse than before Obamacare was passed. That is because their only goal has always been to stop health care reform.
It is not just Donald Trump that owns this debacle. Dating back to the days when Ronald Reagan suggested that Medicare was a socialist plot, Republicans have always been against anything that was designed to help Americans get access to health care.
hovercraft
@Major Major Major Major:
Well you know he’s got to have play time or he gets cranky. His play-dates yesterday did not go well, not enough bowing and scrapping so the had to give him an extra special treat.
I heard that if he’s a really good boy tonight, they’ll put together a nice huuuge rally to show him how much he’s loved. Unfortunately, he’s becoming resistant, the affects of the rally high aren’t lasting as long as they used to, too much negativity is harshing his high.
joel hanes
@Barbara:
I can’t say exactly why you are wrong, but women use more health care services
Toxic masculinity.
Many women are comfortable, even happy, to tell another person about their troubles, and to accept help.
Many men would rather suffer, or even die, than to “whine” about their troubles to a doctor, or be “fussed over” and experience the loss of control of following a doctor’s orders.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: my strategy during the Bush years was to clarify that I’m from California. I shall do the same for the reign of Il Douche, may it be brief.
Hobbes83
@hovercraft: I believe rally addiction is covered under the ACA.
rikyrah
Forget Truth. For Trump It’s All About Winning
by Nancy LeTourneau March 23, 2017 11:40 AM
Today Time published an interview that Michael Scherer conducted with Donald Trump. The topic was how he has handled truth and falsehood in his career. It is obvious that the president was prepped that this would be the focus of the discussion and his responses demonstrate that whether something is true or false is never part of his calculation. In Trump’s mind, everything is centered around proving himself to be right and winning.
For example, here is the president’s opening statement:
One could take that list and demonstrate how Trump actually got some of those things wrong, or wonder what he means when he said “Brussels is not Brussels.” But a major take away is that he spends no time attempting to get at the truth (which is sometimes complex) and zeros in completely on convincing himself that he was right. In the process, he feels the need to take a dig at Scherer by saying “some things that came to you a little bit later.” That is nothing but a statement of dominance.
Trump also spent a lot of time claiming that Rep. Nunes has now vindicated what he tweeted about Obama wiretapping him and adds that he has “articles saying it happened.” When confronted with other lies – like the one about 3 million undocumented people voting, that Muslims in New Jersey celebrated on 9/11, and that Ted Cruz’s father was with Lee Harvey Oswald – he doubles down on the lies. On the last one, Trump’s defense is that it was in a newspaper.
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major: Unsafe at any speed.
Unsane, too.
rikyrah
The GOP Health Bill Promises “Access” And “Choice.” Don’t Believe It.
by William Berkson March 23, 2017 10:37 AM
With their proposal to “repeal and replace” the Affordable Care Act, Republicans are proposing to take away subsidized health care insurance – and more than a trillion dollars in benefits – from 24 million people in the middle class and poor over the next decade and redistribute over 80% of the proceeds to the rich through tax cuts. But the Republicans have put a fine veneer over this “reverse Robin Hood” swindle – they argue that Americans will enjoy both better “access” and “freedom of choice” – when the reality is that they will have neither, in any meaningful way.
The GOP’s promises have all the hallmarks of a classic con, which typically includes three steps: (1) An effort to confuse and mislead the “mark,” in this case, the poor and middle class; (2) Winning the mark’s alliance against an imaginary third party, in this case, “big government”; and then (3) Taking their money.
The heart of the con is conservatives’ conflation of “access” and “freedom of choice.” Conservatives imply that freedom of choice includes access, when in truth these are two very different things, particularly when it comes to health care.
“Freedom of choice” means no one is forcing you to choose one option over another. “Access” means you actually have some options open to you, including the means to exercise your choice. Meaningful freedom requires some of both—options and choice. If you have the money to purchase a bunch of attractive options, but are forbidden the freedom to buy any of them, the claim of “access” to those options becomes meaningless. Similarly, if you have complete freedom of choice, but no money to purchase any of the attractive options, your claim to “freedom of choice” as to how to spend your money is meaningless. To label either extreme—choice without options, or options without choice—as a precious “freedom” is a cruel trick.
Major Major Major Major
@dmsilev: you know who else has opinions about sitting in the cab of a semi truck? Gorsuch. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/03/neil_gorsuch_s_arrogant_frozen_trucker_opinion_shows_he_wants_to_be_like.html
hovercraft
@Hobbes83:
Why can’t he lead, if only he would lead!
Green Lanternism is only for democrats, any failure by them is lack of leadership, ZEGS and Twitler are being hampered by the diverse nature of their coalition!
Roger Moore
@Barbara:
That’s entirely possible. There are two opposing possibilities for why women would use more healthcare:
1) Women get sick more often, so they need more health care services
2) Men and women get sick at about the same rate, but men are less likely to go to the doctor
You’d naively expect that 1) would associate with shorter life expectancy for women and 2) with longer.
Kay
Much, much better than..any of these other people. I think the main thing is she knows it’s a job. That’s a huge advantage right there.
amk
How long and how far these nutz will go before they give up? Pity the stupid voters & nonvoters gutted the checks and balances.
germy
Brachiator
Time to annoy your FaceBook right wing friends. It’s real simple.
Trump promised to repeal and replace. What the GOP is offering is “repeal and eliminate” and tax cuts for their wealthy patrons.
They are going after Social Security next.
Even if these people love Trump, hold him to his promise to improve health care coverage.
Hobbes83
@hovercraft: I think that there is something more to it.
cynthia ackerman
I’m in Greg Walden’s district.
He’s pushing hard for the repeal.
Just checked the Congressional District ACA list, and Walden’s district (OR-2) has the ninth highest enrollment of all districts nation-wide.
He wants to screw with coverage for 134,500 of his constituents.
If you know someone in Greg’s district, please urge them to call one of his offices and ask if they’ve seen this list, if they think the numbers are valid, and how the Representative explains his desire to cancel coverage for twenty percent of the people he represents.
Gelfling 545
@Thru the Looking Glass…: The incumbent says many things and means few of them. It could be that even the Freedom Causus has learned that his word is not precisely rock solid.
Baud
@Kay: So was Harry Reid, but both got trashed for not being good enough. Still burns me up.
Jacel
@Bg: I heard that Ros-Lehtinen was asking substantive questions at the Comey hearing earlier this week, and not selling the Trump-Was-Wiretapped narrative. This is another good sign.
HeleninEire
@Iowa Old Lady: I have not. Thanks for the recommendation.
ETA: In fact I am looking for a good non biased nonfiction book about the Troubles. Having a hard the determining who is non biased.
hovercraft
Gorka Says London Attack, Carried Out By UK Citizen, Justifies Travel Ban
White House aide Sebastian Gorka on Wednesday cited a terror attack outside Britain’s Parliament as justification for President Donald Trump’s blocked travel ban, although the culprit was a U.K. citizen who would not have been affected by the President’s desired travel restrictions.
“The war is real and that’s why executive orders like president Trump’s travel moratorium are so important,” Gorka, a deputy assistant to the President whose counterterrorism expertise has been heavily criticized, told Fox News’ Sean Hannity.
The U.K. has confirmed that the man who killed three and injured 10 in Westminster was a British-born man named Khalid Masood, 52.
Trump’s travel ban on immigrants from six majority-Muslim countries would not have prevented Masood from traveling to the United States. The ban, laid out in a fresh executive order by the President after its previous iteration stalled in the courts, was blocked by multiple federal judges this month on grounds of religious discrimination.
Watch a clip of Gorka’s Hannity appearance below:
Exactly how dumb do they think we are, not al of us are his base, in fact the vast majority of us aren’t.
Gelfling 545
@Three-nineteen: call him and say nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah. It will do him good.
randy khan
@germy:
Something tells me they still don’t have the votes.
trollhattan
@Major Major Major Major:
For the love of God, Even the BBC can’t help but notice.
“Barron does the cyber and I make the horn go ‘boop’.”
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: Reid? You mean the guy who wouldn’t even bring turning our entire government into a peaceful Scandinavian socialist paradise to a vote? Fuck him.
@trollhattan: …why is he screaming?
janelle
Question – if the GOP effort to repeal ACA ultimately ends in spectacular failure, doesn’t Tom Price still have enough authority as HHS Secretary to selectively enforce the regulations of the law in such a way as to guarantee that Obamacare essentially collapses on itself? Specifically, wouldn’t he still be able to do things which ultimately cause every single insurer to abandon the Healthcare.gov exchanges? Is there anything in the law which mandates participation in the exchanges by insurers?
bmaccnm
@Iowa Old Lady: That one steams me, also. Speaking as a maternity care provider, maternity care is only partially benefits the pregnant woman. It is really for the fetus, and pregnant women are often requested and required to do things they don’t want to do, for the benefit of their fetus. Everyone in our society benefits from prenatal care. Every one was born once.
Hobbes83
@Kay: I’m glad someone pointed this out. Can we give a little love to Harry Reid as well? The man took shit from the left for years after Obama was elected, and it turns out he was a pretty good majority leader in the Senate considering the uni-polarization of that body.
SatanicPanic
@janelle: I believe this is correct. But if he does, there’s danger to that. People might be like, “why didn’t you fix it when you had the chance?” And then they might feel compelled to come back to the table to negotiate and chances are they’d mess that up too. If I were them I would leave it alone and pretend their 8 years of whining about the ACA never happened.
Major Major Major Major
@janelle: he does, but, one step at a time.
Betsy
@Barbara: Righteous! I thought this when the Rs objected last week to prenatal care as not benefiting everyone. HELLO!??
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’ve got a little vial of that oil.
ETA: I’m on a train headed to West LA,
Gelfling 545
@Iowa Old Lady: And apparently men have never been fetuses because, if they were, they got prenatal care.
philadelphialawyer
@schrodingers_cat: Closest thing I can think of is the catastrophic care insurance fiasco.
http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/09/us/retreat-congress-catastrophic-care-debacle-special-report-new-medicare-law-fell.html?pagewanted=all
RinaX
I just listened to Thomas Massie on CNN happily throwing Paul Ryan under the bus. He thinks there are at least 40 Republicans against. I think I might be enjoying the schadenfreude for Paul Ryan more than anything else in this mess.
raven
@janelle: Isn’t there a law that says it’s illegal to enforce the mandate anyway?
Jim Parene
@DCrefugee: I went from Peter King as my Rep. to Vern Buchanon . Asshole to asshole, although King is a bigger loudmouth .
Mnemosyne
@janelle:
I would need someone better qualified to confirm this, but IIRC if Price tries to meddle through rulemaking, the individual states could push back with lawsuits. That would not be the case if PPACA is repealed.
Major Major Major Major
@Gelfling 545: I’m willing to grant that a lot of the people making these laws didn’t get prenatal care. Might explain some things.
philadelphialawyer
@Iowa Old Lady: Yeah. And adult men were never babies either, as maternity care is kinda important for the infant as well as the mother.
Elizabelle
@RinaX: Something that drove me nuts —
the New York Daily News this morning identified Paul Ryan as a “moderate” on the healthcare legislation. Because he was not one of the mouth-breathing Freedom Caucus members.
But I would love to see Paul Ryan get pantsed. Weekly. If not more frequently.
Roger Moore
@bmaccnm:
But now that I’m born, why should I continue to care about it?/wingnut
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Oh my. The GIFs of the “Young Guns” — i think youngest of them was older than 40 when they coined that term for themselves– that are going around today.
hueyplong
I don’t care which bullies beat up Paul Ryan, so long as he is well and truly beaten up.
Don’t forget to take his lunch money, fellas.
randy khan
@janelle:
Yes, that could happen. I wonder if they’d do it, though, as a collapse of the exchanges could be blamed on the Administration (thanks to the magical “the President is in charge of everything” theory that pervades American politics). Sure, Trump would say it’s because the law was terrible, but that’s a bit of a gamble.
Bg
@Barbara: That’s Mario, Lincoln’s dumber younger broth. Lincoln retired a while back.
True fact: Lincoln used to be president of the Young Democrats in Miami and a Legal Services lawyer. Switched parties when he realized the political future in Miami was Republican. Sad!
Chyron HR
Turks of a certain age, take note–running a government is, in fact, harder than running one’s mouth. Go figure!
philadelphialawyer
@Mnemosyne: Women do get an actuarially justified “discount” on life insurance compared to men.
Baud
@Elizabelle: Do the Daily News want to be garbage too? Because that way leads to garbage.
Bg
@Jacel: She has been softened somewhat by having a transgender child who came out, and maybe by her otherwise-inexcusable friendship with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz. But I don’t trust her as far as I can throw her.
Barbara
@philadelphialawyer: That ‘s the same bill I was referring to as well. I sometimes wonder what happened to all those dumbfuck seniors who started seeing their retiree health benefits slip away over time and Congress unwilling to do anything about outpatient drug coverage for another 15 years. Congress has not been willing to touch catastrophic or long term care at all since then. And the so-called “grass roots” campaign was funded by pharmaceutical manufacturers and their hook into seniors was that it was all a ruse to have “their” Medicare benefits pay for HIV drugs for Teh Gays.
FDRLincoln
Just called my Congresswoman’s office, Lynn Jenkins, R-Kansas, usually quite conservative although (sometimes) occasionally sane. Her aide told me that Jenkins is undecided on ACA repeal and is seeking constituent feedback.
I gave her that feedback.
Jenkins is pretty close to Ryan and part of his leadership team so her being undecided is a tell that this bill is in trouble. Also, Jenkins is not running for re-election so she doesn’t have to face voters again.
Barbara
@Bg: Well, Mario has upwards of 90,000 constituents currently covered by the ACA and he won’t tell anyone in the media how he plans to vote.
Elizabelle
@Baud: Yeah, it was out of character because the NY Daily News has been far more shrill (aka accurate) than the Grey and Muddled Lady.
ETA: Muddled or muzzled? Something is up there. Publisher on crack? Dean Baquet, sleeper agent. It’s pathetic. FTFNYT.
D58826
OT but the graft continues and institutions keep caving into Der Fuhrer
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/donald-trump-hotel-lease-washington-gsa
philadelphialawyer
@joel hanes: You know, not wanting to live the last years of your life as a perpetual patient subject to “doctor’s orders” is not necessarily such a terrible thing. Just sayin’.
TenguPhule
@Barbara:
I suspect most of them are dead and went to their graves blaming the Democrats.
philadelphialawyer
@Barbara: Right. Shoulda realized that you got there first. And, yeah, on balance, the law was actually a good one.
TenguPhule
John has finally become a true Democrat.
Baud
@Bg:
Jeez, it’d be something if that fiasco produced a positive result here.
Bg
@Barbara: I wonder who he is more scared of than the 90,000 people who will lose their coverage?
CBO score just came out on the revised bill. Same numbers of millions lose coverage but it reduces the deficit by *less* per CNN and Washington Post
Baud
@TenguPhule: WTF? Is that today? Why?
TenguPhule
@Bg:
Because insurance companies will suck up those sweet sweet tax subsidies in exchange for no-coverage policies under the new “no essential care” rule the wingnuts wanted included for their votes.
Winning!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Donald Trump plays vroom-vroom. My nephew once got this excited when a construction worker in the neighborhood let him sit behind the wheel of his bobcat. My nephew was three, fully potty-trained (I think) and not the President of these United States.
TenguPhule
@Baud: He tweeted it today. A true democrat hates the Democrats almost as much as they hate the Republicans.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Roger Moore:
Most women (I assume) see the need for a gynecological exam every year. All too many men see the need for a “check-up” only when their chest is gripped in vise-like pain and their left arm is tingling from fist to shoulder.
geg6
@Elizabelle:
Dean Baquet happened. Worst editor ever.
Baud
@TenguPhule: Ridiculous. On a day in which Dems did everything right.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Time to fire up the VPN:
Party line vote.
Pogonip
@hovercraft: What are Zegs?
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Looks like he’s pooping his pants.
debbie
The best part is that they weren’t able to kill the ACA on the 7th anniversary of its passage like they really, really wanted to.
TenguPhule
@Baud: That’s the beauty of the Democratic party. Getting everything right is expected, not an achievement in excellence.
Roger Moore
@Pogonip:
Zombie Eyed Granny Starver, Charlie Pierce’s nickname for Paul Ryan.
Elizabelle
@geg6: It’s amazing to me that Baquet is still there. I truly wonder if the Times’ subscriptions are down.
Baud
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Even Manchin is better than an R.
ETA: And Brave Sir Paul ran away, I see.
debbie
@Baud:
This has been a good day. Lots of giggling while listening to NPR at work. Take that, suckas! The only thing missing is a demand that Trump take back his lie that whoever was phoning in bomb threats to Jewish Community Centers was doing so on behalf of his opponents.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You know, I don’t mind photos of Trump goofing around. Kind of humanizes him. He is a big kid.
A big kid who should never have been allowed anywhere near the Oval Office.
I think he is mentally unstable, and less culpable for his actions than McConnell, Ryan, Bannon, and his other associates and keepers, in light of that. I would not mind seeing M, R and B hang for treason, and a lot of others too, if it can be proven they were complicit in skewing the election. Hang. In the literal sense.
Chris
@Baud:
Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one who actually likes being in this party.
Gravenstone
@Major Major Major Major: So he really is six.
Baud
@Chris: two of us, but that may be it. Everyone else feels the need to be savvier and special, I suppose.
cain
@cynthia ackerman: ahh.. a fellow Oregonian. I am unfortunately not in Greg’s district. That fool is going to get himself kicked out. Not that it would be a tragedy. But he will make the situation for them even worse than it is. If only those people would embrace growing marijuana… there is money to be made.
rikyrah
@Baud:
Never stop telling the truth, Baud??
debbie
@Elizabelle:
Trump is not a big kid. He has inflicted massive amounts of pain on other people for decades and has yet to show the slightest bit of repentance. He needs to be the first man on the gallows.
geg6
@Chris:
Nah, I love being a Democrat. And I’m proud of it. It’s only GOPers and the purity pony lefties (like JS voters and Wilmerbros) that I despise. I was even cheering for Joe Manchin last night when I saw him interviewed regarding the ACA repeal and Nunes’ shenanigans. That doesn’t often happened.
Elizabelle
@Chris:
@Baud:
I really push back when people disrespect Democrats. Politely, but pointedly. I don’t care if people get surprised by that. Maybe it makes them think before the next time.
Elizabelle
@debbie: Yes, but … I don’t get the sense you’ve got an adult in there.
If he does go first, got to be a reinforced and well-built gallows. He’s a heavy ‘un.
hovercraft
@Elizabelle:
They are more democratic, but Mort Zuckerberg is if nothing else a budget hawk, must cut entitlements!
ZEGS want this too, so he must be a moderate.
Elizabelle
To make you smile: most recently approved comment on Fuck the Fucking New York Times story about GOP “Grasping” for votes.
These truly are the mole people.
With no disrespect to moles. Who probably serve a nobler purpose.
Pogonip
@Roger Moore: Thank you.
Miss Bianca
Oh, dear God…more dispatches from the “But I never thought leopards would eat MY face!” partiers…
This is a story from my “home county” here in Co, Delta County, facing the prospect of its hospital shutting down – the ony hospital for a 60-mile radius, and one of the county’s major employers – because of DonTCare:
I love the people of my county, but I could beat them about the head sometimes – the trust-funder Bernie-or-busters as well as the Trump voters – for their utter refusal to face reality.
randy khan
@Elizabelle:
The Times reports that they’re up, and since it’s a public company there are significant disincentives to lying about such things.
Elizabelle
@Miss Bianca: The LA Times had a big story about the ACA in Colorado yesterday.
Succinctly, here’s a photo caption:
Dumbasses.
Here is the story. Obamacare repeal threatens health programs just as they’re starting to work
I’d excerpt (and might later), but the whole article is worth a look.
Don’t read the reader comments. Bunch of troglodytes. Makes me sad. (I put up a comment; it’s the most highly rated, but the budget trolls/evils are out in force.)
Elizabelle
@randy khan: Do you have a link for that? I am lazy, but curious, on the subject.
randy khan
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
This falls in the category of being technically accurate, but not actually right. The Senate voted to overturn the broadband privacy rules the FCC adopted in October. Those rules were a dead letter anyway because the Republicans on the FCC voted to stay the only important parts that would be in effect today and the remaining important bits are marooned at the Office of Management and Budget (which will act on them never), not to mention that there are requests for reconsideration pending that the Republicans will grant happily. BUT (a big but in this case) that leaves broadband providers still subject to the privacy requirements of the Communications Act, without any guidance as to how to comply with those rules, thanks to the 2015 network neutrality decision that reclassified broadband as a common carrier service. (The 2015 order is outside the time frame that would permit it to be overturned using this mechanism.) Most of the broadband providers I know about are following the telephone rules, which place different but still significant restrictions on use and sale of customer information, because that seems like the safest bet.
That doesn’t make the Senate and House Republicans who voted on this any less odious, but really nothing would; it’s just that the vote actually is much more symbolic than meaningful.
(Why, yes, I work in this area, why do you ask? And just be glad I didn’t unload the whole story here.)
Miss Bianca
@Elizabelle: thanks for this – God, I wish newspapers would just get rid of e-commenting, honestly. Because their commenters are even worse than those of, say, a mid-range political blog. ; )
J R in WV
@Barbara:
No, no!! That’s because men are primary specimens!!! Men never feel pain, because nothing can cause pain to a male prime specimen!!!!!
Men feel good all the time, why would men ever want to consul,eknmtkm ne, mfe,f a Doctor, uh, what is tyhis? @#<,l
Help!!!!
get me Doctor.
uh .@#$@# …………………………
………………………………………
…………………………………………..
………………………………………………….
…………………………………………………………….
So, no health care needed for Prime Specimen MEN!
Miss Bianca
hey, our very own Richard David Mayhew Anderson gets a shout-out at the GOS!
gammyjill
@Iowa Old Lady: I followed your link to your Amazon author page. A nice assortment of books to your credit! I’m a top reviewer for Amazon #152 at the moment.
J R in WV
@philadelphialawyer:
philadelphialawyer says:
March 23, 2017 at 5:30 pm
OMG, he’s back????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ksmiami
@TenguPhule: hey as someone who also understands that we r in a cold civil war…I think you have to go after Fox and the Rt wing propaganda machine