House Rs voted over 60x to repeal Obamacare while Obama was president. They voted 0 times on it under Trump, and are now ready to move on.
— Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) March 24, 2017
It takes a special skill in a politician to not be able to leverage a majority.
— Schooley (@Rschooley) March 25, 2017
Charles P. Pierce, at Esquire:
You knew things had gone sideways when they locked up the House. The corridors that lead through the heart of the Capitol, from Senate chamber to House chamber, were still an unnavigable mass of tourists and staffers and journalists, all clustered by the walls and in unruly knots below the various graven images in Statuary Hall. The echoes were an impossible gabble of crying children, overmatched tour guides, angry parents, and television stand-ups from many lands. At about 3:30, when the voting was supposed to start, a small, tough-looking woman from the Capitol Police turned out the lights in one of the small foyers leading to the chamber. She swung the big doors shut and slammed the locks down into the floor. And that was pretty much it. Until, of course, Speaker Paul Ryan, the zombie-eyed granny starver from the state of Wisconsin, took to a podium in the bowels of the Capitol and said the following.
“Obamacare is the law of the land for the foreseeable future.”
That statement should have come with a sword for Ryan to hand over to Nancy Pelosi who, let it be said, is one legislative badass. She somehow kept her caucus united. There wasn’t even a hint of blue-doggery from her caucus as it sat back and let the Republicans rip each other to shreds, let the president* get exposed as a rookie who should be sent back to A-ball, and let the conservative movement expose itself as graphically as it ever has as the soulless creature of the money power that it’s been for 40 years. Usually, there are some Democrats who either want to make a deal so that Fred Hiatt will send them a Christmas card, or simply because Democrats occasionally can’t help themselves from trying to make the government, you know, actually work…
“We were a 10-year opposition party where being against things was easy to do,” Ryan said. “And now, in three months’ time, we’ve tried to go to a governing party, where we have to actually get … people to agree with each other in how we do things.” Of course, since 2010, the House has had a Republican majority and a Republican speaker. There have been two of them—John Boehner and Ryan. The crazy caucus ran Boehner out of office and now, they’ve handed Ryan his head. Pro Tip: it’s not you, boys. It’s your party…
To be fair, the president* took the defeat rather better than I thought he would, which is to say he blamed the Democrats, repeated claim that the Affordable Care Act is gasping its last breath, and was so fulsome in his sympathy for Paul Ryan that, were I Ryan, I’d hire a food taster. Somebody’s going to pay for this. You can be sure of that. Meanwhile, as Paul Ryan said, Obamacare remains the law of the land. The Rotunda was still packed with tourists when the news came down and you wondered how many people there had somehow been helped by the Affordable Care Act. Maybe it’s that elderly gent looking up at the statue of Huey Long, or that kid in the wheelchair paused beneath Norman Borlaug. Obamacare is now a pre-existing condition, and a damned stubborn one at that.
Also too, Scott Lemieux at LGM on a “B.F.D.”:
… It is ever more remarkable, in retrospect, that much of the discussion on the left following the passage of the ACA consisted of complaints about how Obama/Pelosi/Reid could “only” pass the ACA. This is, on one level, understandable, given that the ACA is unmistakably inferior to the baseline established by other liberal democracies… The coalition that passed the ACA included three senators from the Dakotas, one each from Indiana and Arkansas, and two each from Montana and West Virginia. Glib “BE MORE LIBERAL!” exhortations don’t really help you to get liberal governing majorities in an institution that heavily favors conservative rural interests.
Comprehensive health care reform is brutally hard, as Truman and Johnson and Clinton can tell you. In addition getting the list of legislators above, the Democrats also needed to keep in the fold every liberal who was well aware that the ACA was substantially suboptimal. Senators like Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown deserve enormous credit for working to make the bill as it could be and then supporting it. The Republicans just completely failed with a more homogeneous coalition in the more top-down chamber. What the Democratic leadership pulled off in 2009 is remarkable, and we now know that it is an enduring accomplishment.
Baud
I knew what an accomplishment it was at the time. I actually stayed home to watch C-SPAN that whole week. The last 8 years have been so frustrating.
germy
Even ORDERING them to vote yes didn’t work:
XTPD
What, no Crying Jordan memes yet?
Also: This Buzzfeed post has now been made into a limited-edition children’s book.
Ruckus
@germy:
I’m sure you know that in the military you don’t have to follow an unlawful order. I think real life works the same way. That’s not to say there might not be consequences and a ton of shit in your life for a while but still……
Baud
@germy: Haha. #NotPutin
Fair Economist
I stayed up late to watch the original ACA vote, and cheered as it happened. I knew it was quite an accomplishment, but, as the post points out, it was even bigger than we realized at the time. Near-universal healthcare was even harder than Lemieux’s quote says – both Roosevelts tried, and failed, as well. With this humiliating flop by the Republicans, it remains the only successful major reform to the general healthcare market in the history of the country.
The next time the Democrats get the trifecta we’ll improve it, and decades from now it will probably still be the basis for universal healthcare.
Baud
@Ruckus: To be fair, Bannon’s order wasn’t unlawful. Just politically idiotic.
randy khan
I woke up this morning and thought “Obamacare is the law of the land.” It made me smile.
alce_ e_ ardilla
The first person that gets up and posts ” Well we shouldnt be celebrating because Trump will just destroy it from within” I will strangle with a used colonoscopy tube. We know that. We know it’s just the start. But what we all did was remarkable, and we
have shown Trump the power of an angry public. He is so used to beating up on the powerless that he had no clue what was happening.And as others have said when the going got tough, Trump walked away. Ryan and McConnell will forever have to wonder if he will abandon them again, on tax cuts for the wealthy, on the budget, on a hundred things. We won.
Baud
@alce_ e_ ardilla: Don’t read the morning post.
randy khan
One other thing: Apropos of the earlier fundraising challenge here, I posted a challenge to people to donate to Jon Ossoff on my Facebook page, with a promise to donate some more myself if 5 people kicked in. It took just a few hours to get there, and at least one of my friends decided to post the same challenge herself. Just an idea if anyone has a sufficient group of likeminded friends on Facebook or followers on Twitter.
Villago Delenda Est
@germy:
Another fucking chickenhawk.
Ruckus covered me on the illegal order angle, and Baud as usual comes through with the kicker.
Donald and President Bannon think they can rule by decree. It does not work that way. Only idiots who watch a lot of TV think this way.
Baud
@Villago Delenda Est: The bully pulpit, with real bullies!
MattF
Ezra Klein on the reality of Trump, the Dealmaker. Lays it out as clearly as I’ve ever seen. And Trump doesn’t feel he needs to change.
Amaranthine RBG
I wonder if there is anything, anything at all that could be done to improve the ACA from a left perspective that could get any support from the other side of the aisle?
I tend to doubt it but I wonder if there is any way to peel of “moderate” republicans.
Goku
@germy: Who the fuck does Steve Bannon think he is? He would love to be a dictator
VFX Lurker
@Amaranthine RBG:
Blessed are the pie filters. I wish the mobile site had one.
Yarrow
I was so tired yesterday evening. I didn’t understand why until it finally dawned on me that I had been very stressed because this vote. I’d been calling and calling my reps for weeks. Then the Thursday non-vote happened and the stress carried over another day. I was jubilant when they canceled the vote and hearing Ryan say “Obamacare is the law of the land” was the chocolate sauce and cherry on top of the delicious schadenfreude sundae. But all that excitement and adrenaline had to go somewhere and by last night I could hardly keep my eyes open.
I’m still thrilled today, but so very tired. We did it. We beat back the motherfuckers! It’s one battle and the war is ongoing but we won! I can hardly believe it.
Villago Delenda Est
@MattF: This situation is SCREAMING for a Glengarry Glenross “Coffee is for closers!” SNL sketch. The problem is that Alec Baldwin will need to somehow be in two places on camera at once in different makeup.
moops
Why don’t the GOP just propose an outright repeal of ACA. no replacement, no details needed. Just “Repeal ACA”?
who cares if Trump ran on Repeal and Replace. The GOP spent the Obama years just voting Repeal and didn’t pay a price.
Once Repeal passes, then the dynamics all change.
With ACA dead, the GOP can craft any health care bill they like, and Pelosi and Reid have to hold their people to vote against any replacement and leave the ground scorched. Dems have a habit of peeling away in this scenario. Trying to look statesmanlike and work with the party in power to recover some benefits for their constituents. the Dems then have to sit on the sidelines and watch people die or vote for a new health bill from the GOP.
Or the GOP could just give money to the med insurance industry directly and tell them to build the great Free Market Solution and not even bother fielding a replacement. Sorry grandma, I ran on Repeal and Replace but I could only get it half way done. Look at this Wall!
debit
@Yarrow: YES. I commented in another thread that I woke up happy today for the first time since election day. I know the fight isn’t over, but this was a sweet, sweet victory.
hellslittlestangel
@germy: He’s like a grotesque, hateful Ralph Kramden.
Immanentize
Bannon is not elected and has no voters in his pocket. Neither it seems, does he have any peckers there either.
(insert Obligatory ‘fuck LBJ’)
I also read that the Krazy Kat Kaucus also didn’t like Trump’s threats. Imagine that.
Amaranthine RBG
@randy khan:
Yeah, Ryan was unusually gracious – that makes me nervous.
MARCION
@moops:
Problem is they clearly don’t have the votes for replace by themselves (thanks HFC) so will need significant Dem buy in on a replacement. Like probably 40+ D’s. Is there a bill that some D’s and most of the D’s can support that won’t get the R’s primaries?
Also they would still end up owning any problems the new bill doesn’t fix. People will notice if of their rural hospital closes because of slashed Medicaid funding
Yarrow
@moops: Because they wouldn’t get the votes for it. The Freedom Caucus would love it but the non-FC Republicans wouldn’t. The so-called “moderate Republicans” (as if) were upset by the concessions the FC got, like with the Essential Health Benefits being taken away. They knew voting for that bill would cost them votes.
moops
@MARCION:
I think that’s even more reason that they will not even propose a new health care bill. People think they hate Obamacare. They take a straight party line vote and repeal Obamacare. Then it’s off to the next bit of legislation. It will take a few years for people to realize what they voted for. But that is Trump’s problem, not Ryan’s. Trump will have to find a way to claim Repeal without Replace is a good thing. He will find lots of media wonks to go on TV and tell people that.
The GOP can just repeal Obamacare and walk away and let the whole place burn. The Trump base is not leaving them. The handful of remorseful Trump supporters will still never vote for a Dem.
efgoldman
@Fair Economist:
Medicare ain’t chopped liver.
Chyron HR
@moops:
True Progressives who wanted to punish the country for failing to nominate the Larry David impersonator didn’t need to vote for Republicans, they just had to stay home out of spite. If we get Republicans to do that it still works in our favor.
efgoldman
@alce_ e_ ardilla:
Still doesn’t. I’m pretty sure it’s the first time he’s been told “no” since he was born.
Of course he will. It’s as predictable as the tides.
Mike J
@Immanentize: I have never met a MoC from either party who thought that any president ever, of either party, was more important than they were. As for people who merely work for the president? Threats from them are far more likely to get the opposite results.
If Trump had anybody in the White House who ever had to deal with the federal government he’d be a lot more dangerous.
efgoldman
@Villago Delenda Est:
We knew before (although some people, on both sides, didn’t believe it) that they know less about how politics and government work than my granddaughter does – and she’s willing, able, and eager to learn. She’ll be four in August.
Frankensteinbeck
@moops:
They don’t have the votes for it. It sure as Hell won’t pass the Senate, even if you could somehow scrape it through the House.
EDIT – The whole point of what happened is that the GOP is not one monolithic block that all vote together. It was easy to look like that when they were only making symbolic ‘I hate Obama!’ votes.
Gvg
@moops: they already tried. Ryan got significant pushback from his fellow reps right from Election Day and people started to call as soon as they realized the implications of Trump. Their were several different trial balloons but evidently the chances of that passing were even worse and would have shown the GOP to be even more hypocritical than this result. Ryan did try but after awhile he announced they had to do repeal and replace as one step. He found out they couldn’t even do that. I am sure the informal voting before must have been worse and I suspect this crap legislation had fewer supporters than we are sure of.
They have all been talking tough for years to win elections but found out they would lose if they went through with it. That is also why the law was so poorly done. They hadn’t worked on it. They had lied to each other and fooled themselves about what voters wanted. I think they knew they couldn’t invent something that satisfied enough voters so why bother working hard to make something. Just put on a show and hide how they would have voted so they can claim 2 opposing positions at the same time for the next election.
Yarrow
@moops:
Again, they don’t have the votes for it. Not in the House and certainly not in the Senate. They can’t do it. And Members of Congress are much less likely to stick their necks out for Ryan and Trump after yesterday’s debacle. Repeal on its own is a no go.
@Amaranthine RBG:
I hear you but I think that speech was for Trump. Ryan knows he needs a food taster at this point. He was doing whatever he could to make it look like it was his failure in hopes of avoiding a public beating by Trump. It’s not going to work long term, but Trump was nice to Ryan yesterday. But he failed and both Trump and his caucus isn’t going to forget it.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
Doesn’t Trump, himself, watch a lot of TV?
efgoldman
@MattF:
He can’t change, any more than you can become a bottlenose dolphin.
Klein gets the politics part right, but he clearly thinks that Amber Abomination is able and/or willing to learn, change, grow. T’ain’t so, As Ruckus pointed out multiple times last night, he yam what he yam, it’s all what he yam. His character is as fixed and immutable as granite.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
On MSNBC, Lindsey Graham sounding more partisan(and nasty) than usual at a town hall, bitching about redistritubiotn of middle class incomes so some people are getting health care for free!
and he’s getting booed.
efgoldman
@Villago Delenda Est:
That’s what CGI is for.
dogwood
They might have been able to repeal Obamacare had they won big in 2012. But it’s probably too late now. You don’t get rewarded at the ballot box by the rank and file for providing a benefit, but you can certainly get punished for taking it away.
Yarrow
@Gvg: Yes. Rep. Joe Barton gave the game away yesterday.
They voted for Repeal because they knew Obama would veto it. Now that Trump will sign it, they won’t vote for it. They don’t mean what they say at all.
dmsilev
@moops:
Two reasons: (1) They’d need 60 votes in the Senate to undo all of the ACA’s regulations and so forth. (2) “No denial of coverage because of pre-existing conditions” and “your kids can stay on your insurance until age 26” and so forth are both popular and hugely easy to use as an attack against the people who strip them out. The House Freedom Caucus doesn’t care about either of those things, but quite a few somewhat-less-crazy Republicans do.
Baud
@dogwood: Yep. And hopefully now, all the states will soon sign up for expanded Medicaid. More entrenchment.
moops
@Gvg: Ok, I hadn’t seen that the first few months were just Repeal. I’m surprised that couldn’t get pushed through. You just bribe and bribe your centrist GOP until they cave and take the deal. I guess the total absence of a GOP Whip and Ryan’s inept Speaker skills made Repeal untenable.
That is probably what emboldened the factions with the GOP. They saw there is no power structure and are building up factions.
that’s a good thing. The United GOP Block has been a problem for a loooong time.
lollipopguild
@Brachiator: Obama was in the Illinois state leg. He got used to working with other people to get things done. Trump and bannon are used to ordering people around.
Old Dan and Little Anne
I spend all day wanting to text and FB message every drumph voting family member and friend I have that they should repent or fuck off. Every day. For 60+ days. It’s never going to end. Yesterday, however, was fucking awesome.
efgoldman
@moops:
A significant number of them are from districts that either voted for HRC or were so close as to be scary (to them). They are all in electoral peril as is. Another bunch are from districts that were gerrymandered, but very narrowly, so as to maximize the number of Republiklown state legislators and congresscritters in the state, rather than creating large red margin super safe districts. Add to that, the usual expectation that the president’s party loses seats in off year elections, and there we are.
Remember the Prime Directive: I MUST be re-elected.
Yarrow
@moops:
When the Republicans eliminated earmarks a few years ago they took away their ability to bribe their Members of Congress. They can still take away things like committee assignments, but that’s not as effective.
Brachiator
@MattF:
Yes! Thanks for this. Very good stuff. For example:
Trump is in over his head. He does not know how to lead a government.
He lies with promises he does not know how to keep.
His executive orders have either been meaningless word salad or unconstitutional.
He does not know how to craft new legislation or shape existing legislation.
He lives for the photo op where he holds a pen after signing something. And rallies where he can bask in supporter adulation after he has failed or been stymied.
He is probably a crook in the pocket of the Russians or someone else. At least one of his chief backers in the GOP leadership is probably also a paid Russian agent. Speculation, yes. But is it just political opportunism that leads the GOP leadership to continue to back Trump so fervently?
It may take some time to unravel all this. Despite this early win, I expect Democratic Party surrogates on the Sunday shows to be feckless, and the journalists to continue to ask the wrong questions.
ETA: Kudos to the Congressional Democrats for keeping steady through this. I am admittedly surprised that there were no apparent defections. And if it was all or largely Pelosi, then goodness gracious great balls of fire!
MattF
@efgoldman: Trump’s inability to change and learn is a known fact– but he has to rationalize it, somehow.
efgoldman
@Brachiator:
Only the really important ones: Hannity, Greta, [sorry i don’t watch Fucks… I can’t remember anyone else]
schrodingers_cat
Ezra Klein is the young Broder. I haven’t forgotten his shameful, Obamacare is the worst routine, because of the glitchy first year website roll out.
Politco article linked by someone called Freedom Caucus, rambunctious, WTF? Freedom Caucus is bunch of loons not a group of feisty toddlers.
efgoldman
@moops:
There’s nothing to bribe them with. The Assholes croaked earmarks in Weeping Cheeto’s time, maybe before.
If you mean actual ca$h bribes in an envelope, most if them have too much sense and survival instinct to even think of that.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
That he gets everything from TV is two things. First it is a disgrace that he’s such a fucking idiot that he believes what’s on TV. And second it’s also why he won, his support gets their information from the same place. He is them and they are him. (Minus a few million here or there, one way or the other.) They voted for themselves.
mai naem mobile
Fuck the GOP. They actually had a golden opportunity to make the fixes to Obama care and rename it and take it away from the Dems. El Dumbos will always do what they will do. And El Dumbo Supremo has the balls to blame it on Pelosi . Seriously , this mofo has not reached out to the Dems at all. Not at all. No Dem cabinet appointee and,no the VA guy doesn’t count. He didn’t even win the popular vote. He can go fuck himself.
dogwood
@Yarrow:
Boehner called it a month or so ago. He said they wouldn’t repeal or replace Obamacare. He was a failed Speaker, but he was never stupid. He wasn’t even an ideologue; he just played one on tv. He would have been happy making deals with Obama over drinks and a round of golf.
randy khan
@moops:
There actually is some evidence of the Trump base peeling off. He dropped 10% in approval among Republicans in the last Quinnipiac poll. (One poll, etc., I know.) And his disapproval ratings keep rising. It’s not all coming from people who voted for Hillary, Stein or McMullin.
And, truth be told, while I’d love to get those people voting for the Dems, not voting at all works for me, too. If they get discouraged and stay home, that’s a big plus for the good team.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I’m not too sure about them being too sensible or having enough survival instinct. I am pretty sure that drumpf is not going to be putting cash in envelopes to hand out. What may keep them from taking cash is that which one of any of them wants to part with enough cash that it might take to bribe them? I mean we know that most of them are for sale, it’s just some of them may understand that kneeling under a table for a job doesn’t make that job very appealing.
Yarrow
@dogwood: Yep. He was kind of old school in that way. Tweety would have been real happy if Obama and Boehner had gone full Tip and Gipper.
MattF
@dogwood: I noticed that Boehner’s comment wasn’t really taken seriously– but it should have been.
JMG
Here’s a news brief that might provide cheer. Reporter Laura Rozen reached a spokesman for Lt. Gen. (ret.) Michael Flynn and asked point blank if Flynn is now cooperating with the FBI. Answer “I’m not responding.” Question 2: Are you confirming or denying?” Answer two: “Not responding.”
That’s not even a non-denial denial.
germy
@JMG: He’s a crackpot and he doesn’t like answering questions from pesky reporters. I hope he’ll be answering questions from the G-Men.
Chet Murthy
@JMG: SO MUCH WINNING! NOT TIRED OF WINNING!
lollipopguild
@randy khan: Once the russian crap hits the fan it will be fun to watch his fanboys/girls react.
JMG
@germy: This wasn’t Flynn, this was some flack. Flacks get paid to answer questions, and they can’t afford to flat out lie to reporters because then reporters don’t call them or return calls, and they don’t have any clients.
Shell
Making a working health insurance system was never number one for them. They wanted repealing Obamacare, his signature legislation, as a trophy on their walls. Why else rush thru the bill so the vote would be on the ACAs anniversary?
moops
@JMG: I still don’t understand the National Enquirer running a story about Trump catching a KGB spy in the Whitehouse.
http://www.nationalenquirer.com/photos/donald-trump-russian-influence-washington/
unless they are trying to set up a narrative where ALL the Russian influence is pinned on Flynn and they try to throw him under the bus and make it all go away.
Brachiator
@moops:
He can’t do that. He promised something better than Obamacare. He detailed it out. Of course it is worse than an empty promise, but he is still stuck. His thing is that he is better than that scary black man Obama, and that he can deliver where Obama failed. Trump’s ego will not allow him to offer repeal and nothing.
This is not necessarily true. A good chunk of Trump supporters had not voted for years because they did not see either party as representing them. Give them something worth voting for and they will abandon Trump in a heartbeat.
@Old Dan and Little Anne:
Might be cool to also highlight Trump’s lies, betrayals and political failures. He’s already broken most of the promises he made. And Mexico still ain’t paying for that wall.
efgoldman
@Ruckus:
Yeah, but the Kochs came out one day this week and said in so many words that they WOULDN’T give campaign contributions to anyone who voted for the bill.
MattF
@moops: Was the Justice League of America involved? Have we moved now into the Comic Book Hero Universe?
lollipopguild
@moops: In the pages of the Natl Enquirer trump must be/will be made to look like the BEST president who ever presidented. He will be portrayed as a guy who catched russian spies while he brings jobs back to America and makes american better than anyone could possibly imagine. I was at the grocery Fri and read the headlines on the NE and trump is the BEST Superhero who ever Superheroed.
lollipopguild
@MattF: The short answer is yes!
efgoldman
@lollipopguild:
You left out faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound….
zhena gogolia
@mai naem mobile:
You’re channeling me.
lollipopguild
@efgoldman: I type with 2 fingers and I was typing as fast as i could.
Suzanne
@Brachiator:
This is a bigger issue than many Rethugs, and a few Dems, want to admit. Experience matters for this gig. Crafting good policy is hard, no matter what your values or morals or political alignment or priorities. I don’t know why anybody thought that someone who had never done it before could do it. Not just that he had never done it before—Trump had never even been around the process before.
The Dems who think that Howard Schultz or Oprah Winfrey or Sheryl Sandberg or Bill Gates would be good potential candidates should pay attention. That’s not to say that a good president always has to come from a governorship or the Senate. But if we ever think of nominating someone from a different background in an attempt to shake things up, we should make sure that the candidate has a good understanding of this process.
The interior designers I work with experience this all the time: people watch HGTV or take a passing interest in home decor and suddenly think that they can do their jobs. They don’t realize that it takes education, experience, specialized knowledge, good judgment. They just think it’s picking out paint colors and tile. They are stupid and wrong and we shit-ton of our fellow Americans just picked out the president that way.
Trump is such a fucking mouthbreather that he doesn’t know what he doesn’t know, and he doesn’t care. Neither he nor his supporters deserve any sympathy or assistance.
Let us savor.
zhena gogolia
@JMG:
УУУ бля! Вот это да!
Suzanne
Oh weird. I cleared my browser history and cookies and now I am stuck in moderation. Sorry.
zhena gogolia
@lollipopguild:
I enjoy turning it face backwards in the supermarket checkout aisle. Half the time someone else has already done it.
lollipopguild
@zhena gogolia: I used to think that it was just stoopid. Now, with trump it is funny as hell. They do treat him as Capt America/Superman etc. Funny and SAD!
Brachiator
@moops:
Isn’t the owner of The Enquirer one of Trump’s best buddies? I would expect him to do everything he could to help Trump.
moops
@lollipopguild: But if the NE has to run this level of damage control then this must be bad.
Russians are no longer a Dem boogie man. The baseline story is now “yes, KGB agents are in the Whitehouse”
Manafort and Stone become much more relevant. We will have to see how Nunes manages to handle their testimony. Or if he will find some way to prevent their testifying. I still don’t have a good understanding of their offering to appear in front of the Intelligence Committee to testify.
MattF
@moops: Maybe to get immunity. That would interfere seriously with any other investigation.
PsiFighter37
@dogwood: Boehner, if he wasn’t a soulless alcoholic, could have been known as the most consequential GOP House Speaker in a very, very long time. But he, just like Turtle and the rest of the GOP, decided on 1/20/2009 to obstruct 100%. Instead, he became the first in what may be a decently long line of historically weak House Speakers (at least for as long as the GOP remains in control). That asshole didn’t even bring up the Senate’s immigration reform bill.
So fuck him.
lollipopguild
@moops: I think the idea is to portray trump as so smart/tough that he caught a russian spy that the FBI did not catch. It is an admission that Flynn worked for the russians which enquiring minds might think should have been caught by trumps people before Flynn was named the NSC guy. But I am an evil LIEBRUL!
Amaranthine RBG
@Brachiator:
Yeah – only thing I can think is that there is much more dirt about to come out on Flynn.
MattF
@Amaranthine RBG: It’s already known that Flynn engaged in wildly inappropriate behavior wrt Turkey.
efgoldman
@MattF:
Actually, it would compel their testimony. That’s why it’s done.
Yarrow
@moops:
Yes. This is part of it. Owner of National Enquirer is good buddy of Trump’s so anything they print should be seen in that light. The Flynn article has several parts–make Trump look good (he caught the spy!), pin everything on Flynn (one bad actor) and general disinformation. The Kremlin specializes in disinformation to muddy the waters and now Flynn as a bad guy will be what shoppers standing in checkout lines see for the next week. Takes the heat off Trump.
moops
@efgoldman: It would interfere with other investigations if Manafort or the other Russian agents in Trump’s campaign are given immunity for their testimony. But with Manafort offering to testify there is no good reason to offer immunity.
But I suspect Nunes will still attempt to offer them immunity.
All very strange.
JMG
@moops: Manafort has not offered to testify under oath. He has agreed to be interviewed, meaning he’s not under oath and faces no penalty for perjury.
zhena gogolia
@PsiFighter37:
Just imagine if they’d worked with Obama.
Amaranthine RBG
@MattF:
Exactly, but _that_ was know for quite a while. I’m thinking there has to be something massive to cause Trump ally the Enquirer to do this.
(But there is always the chance that it’s just crazy all around and no 9 dimensional chess involved.
rikyrah
@germy:
Kapow
rikyrah
It seems as if Flynn is gonna flip
rikyrah
@Fair Economist: I remember it, and they went over the history of all the Presidents who had tried and failed. It hit me-the history
bupalos
Repubs want to run away from healthcare now and shoot at it from the bushes, I think now really would be a pretty good time to go on the offensive. Put up something that pulls a bunch of chronically sick working people into medicaid, like raises the means test level if you’re diagnosed with one of these things to 100K, figure it to a level where it will cost the exact amount that the Republicans naked tax cut for the wealthy is going to cost. That would end up lowering everyone else’s premiums, be a jobs stimulus as it lowers the cost of hiring, and best of all just be a direct comparable to the tax-giveaway. No way it gets passed, but maybe it sinks the tax-theft scheme and gives people something to vote for in 18.
Whatever it is, we need something on the table for Dems to talk about NOW. Strike while the iron’s hot.
Keith G
Obamacare may be the law of the land but there is a distinct possibility that it has as much of a chance of staying on its feet as a young starlet visiting Bill Cosby to run lines.
The hardest battles to be fought are ahead of us not behind us. There are many things that the Trump Administration can do, or not do which will seriously diminish the functionality of the law. And then there is the need to compel Congress to step up and repair some of the parts of the which need help.
Lurking Canadian
@PsiFighter37: yep. He could, at any time, have ditched the Hastert rule, formed some kind of coalition of sane Reps and centrist Dems. Obama would have worked with him and the Village would have nominated him for sainthood.
But he preferred to live as a shitweasel. And here we are.
Ohio Mom
@efgoldman: Nor is Medicaid. Or Schip (did I spell that correctly?).
Albatrossity
“And now, in three months’ time, we’ve tried to go to a governing party, where we have to actually get … people to agree with each other in how we do things.” – ZEGS from Wisconsin
Baloney. They’ve had the House majority for 6 years, and the Senate for 2. They could have learned to govern then, but they are not interested in governance. It’s pretty telling that Paul is pretending that this is the first time they have been able to govern…
the Conster, la Citoyenne
So, Obama didn’t sell us out?
Q: How foolish do purity progressives look right now?
A: Not foolish enough.
OT/ but Trump tweeted to watch Judge Jannine, who opened her show at 9:00 asking for Paul Ryan’s head. lol. We’re going to need a bigger popcorn bowl.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@moops: They’re trying to set him up. This is what Nixon did to John Dean and why Dean eventually broke with the conspiracy and turned states evidence.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Keith G:
Yes, we all know this. Their incompetence will slow roll them though, while we organize the resistance. Senators Warren and Murray wrote a letter to the IG asking why HHS is defunding the online portal to the exchanges, dropping enrollment. It requires constant vigilance now, because we know they’re relentless fucking assholes.
Debbie1
@Villago Delenda Est: “Donald and President Bannon think they can rule by decree. It does not work that way. Only idiots who watch a lot of TV think this way.”
“Idiots” eh? (By the way, you misspelled T-r-u-m-p.)
So, all of a sudden, Bernie gets an ACA credit when he did NOTHING to usher along the billm and in fact has spent the last few years trashing THE President (O) and that very bill. Ha! He has the same problem as Tr*mp, in that the press (both left and right) rush to shower him with underserved praise.
artem1s
@JMG:
Hmmm, I seem to remember something about subjects of Grand Jury investigations not being allowed to talk about those investigations. Even to confirm they are happening?
Raven Onthill
Obamacare: the fourth rail?
KS in MA
@Yarrow: We should make all of them pay in 2018.
Zach
Last excerpt can’t be repeated enough. ACA had zero spare votes in Senate, one in the house, and most critically zero on the Court (possibly negative 0.5) and requires some degree of buy in from state governors. If it did nothing other than set the apparently irreversible precedent of universal at-least-sorta affordable insurance it was a historic win. And it turns out it works more or less OK with no big losers and all the big winners being the newly or more affordably insured.
Debbie1
@Zach</a Wow! With high praise like that, we are guaranteed to have to keep fighting this same ACA battle over and over again.
No One You Know
@VFX Lurker: Second that.
No One You Know
@moops: Are you on the wrong thread?
Or site, perhaps?