Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

The revolution will be supervised.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

T R E 4 5 O N

I was promised a recession.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

In my day, never was longer.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Saturday Morning Clowns Open Thread: Not Gonna Get Easier, Repubs

Saturday Morning Clowns Open Thread: Not Gonna Get Easier, Repubs

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Aaaand now… Onwards, to the Zombie-Eyed Granny-Starver’s Ayn Rand wet dream…

Reader Interactions

328Comments

  4. 4.

    Baud

    CNN

    Along with this wife, Ivanka Trump, another key cog in the president’s inner circle, Kushner was on vacation until Thursday, skiing with family in the posh Colorado town of Aspen. Paparazzi caught Jared and Ivanka taking leisurely strolls, enjoying ice cream cones with their three kids and winding their way down the slopes.

    Meanwhile, back in Washington, Trump was fuming. According to a source close to the president, “[Trump] is upset that his son-in-law and senior adviser was not around during this crucial week.” Kushner did appear at the White House on Friday during the last gasps of the Obamacare repeal effort.

  5. 5.

    OzarkHillbilly

    The gang that couldn’t shoot straight.

    @Baud: I blame Obama. And his eleventy dimensional chess prowess..

  6. 6.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Baud: the only time i was nervous was when Uncle Joe jumped the Snake River canyon in his Firebird just to scare the shit out of his passenger, Max Baucus

  7. 7.

    SFAW

    I seem to remember another Shitgibbon lie: Something along the lines of “You’re going to get tired of winning.”

    No, asshole, I won’t. I want as many wins like this as it takes to get you to clear out your entire anti-American, evil Administration.

    I’m hoping for “wins” on his tax returns, on a criminal investigation into treasonous behaviors of him and his minions, on Uday and Qusay becoming impoverished, and on ZEGS resigning in disgrace.

    And that’s just for starters.

  8. 8.

    Sab

    Susan G Komen assholes just jogged by at 7 o’clock on a Saturday morning screeching at each other for encouragement. Woke me and the cat up. Cat cannot go back to sleep because upset.Grumble.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    @SFAW: They are turning to tax reform next, and it’s almost tax day, and the Russian thing is heating up. I expect tax returns will be a big thing soon.

  11. 11.

    Elizabelle

    Good morning, all.

    Some other good out of this: voters paying way more attention to Congress, and contacting their reps directly. Much more appetite for turning out to protest –it’s fun, too. All those joyful photos from earlier mass protests — people are glad to get out there and be heard, since we got subverted at the voting box last fall.

    I think tax “reform” and the other stealing they’re planning on got exponentially harder. More people watching; GOP’s and Ryan’s undeserved rep for competence in tatters; it’s fun to protest and there’s safety in numbers there.

  12. 12.

    amk

    @Baud: Amazing how the fucking msm coolly normalizes blatant nepotism with zero responsibility as ‘senior adviser’.

  13. 13.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I remind you, destroying Medicaid WAS Ryan’s wet dream, that he fantasized about at college parties. He loves murdering the poor as much as he loves making the rich richer.

    They need to beat cloture for cutting taxes on the rich, right? If so, forget it. Ryan doesn’t have the smarts to wrangle something Democrats feel they have no choice but to vote for.

  14. 14.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud: Yeah. Just knowing the Russian stuff is heating up tells me, slow it ALL down, no need to rush through anything. We could have a totally different political landscape in a year or two.

    And stonewall on Gorsuch. Hold that USSC seat open, unless it goes to Merrick Garland. If not, 8 justices will do. For now.

  15. 15.

    Amir Khalid

    @Baud:
    There’s nothing the Congressional Democratic party would have done to aid the repeal of Obamacare, and of course President Trump knows this. There’s nothing Jared could have done to help ensure passage of the AHCA, since he has neither an actual office nor any influence with Congressional Republicans, and of course Trump knows this too. He’s just lashing out after being publicly humiliated yet again. It’s a sight to be savoured, isn’t it?

  17. 17.

    Sanjeevs

    Trump was notably polite about Ryan yesterday. Even he thought better than to attack the guy that has the power to remove Nunes.

  18. 18.

    hueyplong

    So the almost neglected bombshell from yesterday is that Trump is helpless without Indispensable Man Jared Kushner. I guess we’re lucky nothing important or scary came up during President Obama’s 8 years, when Kushner wasn’t around to dispense his sage advice to decision-makers.

  19. 19.

    NotMax

    Um, say what?

    Naked protesters outside Auschwitz undress, kill sheep and chain themselves to gate
    [snip]
    A spokesman for the Auschwitz memorial, Bartosz Bartyzel, said their motives were not clear…. Source

    re: Gorsuch

    Judge Gorsuch has a notably strong record on one controversial subject, that being on church-state matters. His rulings have generally supported a more “accommodationist” approach to resolving church-state controversies, a position advocated by religious conservatives.…
    [snip]
    The infamous Hobby Lobby case is one example. In that case, the Supreme Court held that for-profit corporations may assert a religious liberty defense against having to comply with the contraceptive care insurance mandate under the Affordable Care Act. Judge Gorsuch wrote a concurring opinion in the 10th Circuit’s decision that went even further, urging that courts should defer to a person’s subjective claim that a law burdens his religious beliefs, regardless of how tangential that burden appears objectively. Source

    Promises, promises.

    One difference that’s already apparent: Lawmakers and administration officials seem inclined to take more time on tax legislation. The health-care bill was introduced, marked up, passed through committees and scheduled for a floor vote in just a few weeks. On taxes, House leaders have said they hope to pass a bill by August. Top Republican senators say it may take longer than that.

    It’s unclear how Trump will propose to change tax laws. On Feb. 9, he promised a “phenomenal” tax plan in two or three weeks. That was six weeks ago. Source

  20. 20.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Amir Khalid:

    and of course Trump knows this too.

    Trump does not know anything that contradicts what he wants to believe at that moment. I’m completely serious about this. His memories and concept of reality change to suit his emotions at any moment. Anybody who’s known a narcissist has seen how that works.

  22. 22.

    Baud

    @Elizabelle:

    I think tax “reform” and the other stealing they’re planning on got exponentially harder.

    CNN

    New York Rep. Chris Collins said Friday afternoon prior to the cancellation of the vote that if the health care bill fails, it would leave a “black eye” on his party’s ability to legislate.

    “If we don’t pass this, I personally don’t think we pass a 2018 budget. We couldn’t pass a 2017 budget. So if we couldn’t pass a 2017 budget and this happens today, how are we going to pass a 2018 budget?” he said.

    “And that’s the vehicle for tax reform. And if you don’t do tax reform, where does the money come from for infrastructure? That’s how critical this vote is today.”

  23. 23.

    JPL

    @Sanjeevs: Trump appeared to be calm and measured after the defeat. I think he knows the fix is in.
    Daily Beast has an interesting article about Devin Nunes. link

  32. 32.

    Russ

    Republicans find out, it’s easier to burn a house down than build one. Social media and smart phones make gathering protesters much easier.

  33. 33.

    amk

    over/under twitler overcompensates by issuing a series worthless e.o’s come monday? I’ll SHOW THEM WHO IS THE BOSS.

  34. 34.

    Frank Wilhoit

    There are three parties in Congress, none with a majority. The plurality party is the Democratic Party. Only slightly smaller is the regular Republican Party. Smallest, but larger than the difference between the other two, is the “House Freedom Caucus”, who can only be described as the Coercion Caucus, or the Unaccountability Caucus, or some other name that expresses their essential dishonesty and destructiveness. Right now they are still calling themselves “Republicans” in order to conceal the fact that the schism has even taken place (see above, re: dishonesty).

    The de facto ruling coalition is between the regular Republicans and the Coercion Caucus. That coalition just failed; but it will be stitched up, and then it will fail again, and so on, until the incentives realign and it fails for good. I suspect that the Coercion Caucus will run their own slate in 2018 and that they will reduce the regaulr Republicans to a rump.

  35. 35.

    p.a.

    Ideologically may be more difficult for Dems to stay unified on tax issues. Politically maybe not as hard. Blood in the water, memory of years of Rethug obstruction. Squishes need reminding: unity leads to majority, eventually.

  37. 37.

    Zach

    LOL tax “reform” = revenue-neutral changes in the tax code favoring corporations, investment returns, and the wealthy… this is a harder sell than repealing Obamacare because of GOP opposition to any new tax.

    There’s three realistic options for GOP on taxes: (1) pay for it with Medicaid cuts, (2) 10-year sunset a la Bush cuts, (3) tear up the Byrd rule or cheat on revenue projections.

    It will be interesting to see for how long after choosing one of these three options the GOP is still allowed to get away with calling it “tax reform” rather than “deficit funded tax cuts” (I doubt they choose option 1 since it didn’t work so well this time).

  39. 39.

    ThresherK

    @Brendan in NC: Seeing as GWB is the living embodiment of “Gentleman’s C”, we’re gonna have to come up with another term for Trump. Nobody has been buying the idea of him as “gentleman” since Labor Day.

  40. 40.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Zach:

    (1) pay for it with Medicaid cuts, (2) 10-year sunset a la Bush cuts, (3) tear up the Byrd rule or cheat on revenue projections.

    I’ll pick (4) All of the above.

  42. 42.

    Booger

    @NotMax: Yeah, what’s with that? Why do Repubs keep misspelling ‘loser’ that way? Is it like the ‘v.’ in Gorka’s name?

  44. 44.

    Sanjeevs

    @JPL: Unreal. And that’s only the second weirdest story about this admin today (the Flynn kidnapping story).
    Interesting that Nunes aides are distancing from him. And Nunes looked consumed by fear in his last presscon (the one to announce Manafort)

  46. 46.

    gene108

    @NotMax:

    Judge Gorsuch wrote a concurring opinion in the 10th Circuit’s decision that went even further, urging that courts should defer to a person’s subjective claim that a law burdens his religious beliefs, regardless of how tangential that burden appears objectively. Sou

    Would love to see what treatment he’d give a non-Christian with sincerely held religious beliefs, like say a Muslim employer banning people from eating pork at the office or something similar.

    Compared to other Fundies, Christians have fewer religious taboos.

  48. 48.

    amk

    yet another court slap.

    Singapore teen blogger Amos Yee, who was jailed twice in his homeland for posting political and religious criticism online, has been granted asylum in the United States.

    Mr Yee, 18, has been detained in the US since he arrived at Chicago’s O’Hare airport in December.

    He came into the country on a tourist visa but told immigration officials he was seeking refuge.

    Following Friday’s ruling, he is expected to be released shortly.

    The US Department of Homeland Security opposed Mr Yee’s asylum application, but the immigration judge ruled in the teenager’s favour.

    Judge Samuel Cole released a 13-page decision, which said Mr Yee faced persecution in Singapore for his political opinions.

    “Yee has met his burden of showing that he suffered past persecution on account of his political opinion and has a well-founded fear of future persecution in Singapore,” Judge Coel ruled.

    “Accordingly, this court grants his application for asylum.”

  49. 49.

    WereBear

    @Sab: The scandal didn’t kill it? I have always disliked the Pink Ribbon people, but now I am openly scornful.

    Not only is Obamacare sticking around, it is now kinda enshrined as Obamacare, which is only proper.

    And fools found out that is what they have…

  50. 50.

    Baud

    The defeat of the AHCA was really a statement to the world. Can you imagine Putin losing something that badly? America ain’t dead yet.

  51. 51.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @gene108: I wonder what he would say about the fact that his continued existence burdens my fundamental religious beliefs?

  52. 52.

    WereBear

    @Frankensteinbeck: I remind you, destroying Medicaid WAS Ryan’s wet dream, that he fantasized about at college parties. He loves murdering the poor as much as he loves making the rich richer.

    What a psychopath.

    It is unconscionable to encourage such; and yet, that is what the Republicans have been doing for decades. I hope it is finally starting to blow back at them.

    Of course, it radicalized ME. :)

  53. 53.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @ThresherK:
    Trump is Your Racist Uncle, the ranting, proudly ignorant, perpetually angry asshole who is never wrong and wants you to know who he hates, especially if you don’t want to hear it. That’s why he was elected. The Republican Voters wanted someone who represents them. They’re sick of ‘politically correct’ politicians and flocked to someone who would finally ‘say what everyone is thinking but is scared to say.’

    EDIT – @WereBear:

    What a psychopath.

    Paul Ryan is one evil son of a bitch, yes, and the pundits love him for it.

  55. 55.

    debbie

    I must say I am surprised to see that that NYT headline is genuine. I’ve grabbed it for my FB feed. Take that, Trump-loving family members!

  56. 56.

    MomSense

    @WereBear:

    Fuck You Paul Ryan is the worst. I think I loathe him more than all the others especially since he seems to genuinely consider his psychopathy a virtue.

  57. 57.

    Elizabelle

    Paul Krugman took on the press yesterday for promoting Ryan as a policy wonk, and the dangers of their quest for balance and symmetry when one side is literally crazy. You might enjoy the column, and then turning to the readers’ comments. Since these are (Fuck the Fucking) New York Times readers, they know he is scolding his own editors. Emails!

    … we should be asking ourselves how the people running our government came to wield such power. How, in particular, did a man whose fraudulence, lack of concern for those he claims to care about and lack of policy coherence should have been obvious to everyone nonetheless manage to win over so many gullible souls?

    No, this isn’t a column about whatshisname, the guy on Twitter, who’s getting plenty of attention. It’s about Paul Ryan, the speaker of the House.

    …. So how did Mr. Ryan reach a position where his actions may reshape the lives of so many of his fellow citizens, in most cases very much for the worse? The answer lies in the impenetrable gullibility of his base. No, not his constituents: the news media, who made him what he is.

    You see, until very recently both news coverage and political punditry were dominated by the convention of “balance.” This meant, in particular, that when it came to policy debates one was always supposed to present both sides as having equally well-founded arguments. And this in turn meant that it was necessary to point to serious, honest, knowledgeable proponents of conservative positions.

    Enter Mr. Ryan, who isn’t actually a serious, honest policy expert, but plays one on TV. He rolls up his sleeves! He uses PowerPoint! He must be the real deal! So that became the media’s narrative. And media adulation, more than anything else, propelled him to his current position.

    … There’s an important lesson here, and it’s not just about health care or Mr. Ryan; it’s about the destructive effects of false symmetry in reporting at a time of vast asymmetry in reality.

    This false symmetry — downplaying the awfulness of some candidates, vastly exaggerating the flaws of their opponents — isn’t the only reason America is in the mess it’s in. But it’s an important part of the story. And now we’re all about to pay the price.

    The Scammers, the Scammed and America’s Fate

    CNN is every bit as guilty as FTFNYT, and MSNBC and the networks, especially the Sunday shows (Meet the Republicans).

  58. 58.

    debbie

    @WereBear:

    What a psychopath.

    I can’t remember what kind of legislation he was pushing that would have decimated the middle class, but remember back during the GWB days when Ryan then went to lunch with a hedge fund manager and very publicly enjoyed a couple bottles of $300 wine? I believe a diner even walked up to the table and asked how he could be so horrible.

  59. 59.

    Lurking Canadian

    @Elizabelle: I am concerned that they will tie the tax cuts to the debt ceiling and dare the Dems to filibuster. They are crazy enough to shoot the hostage so it’d be a difficult standoff to win.

  60. 60.

    efgoldman

    @Elizabelle:

    voters paying way more attention to Congress, and contacting their reps directly. Much more appetite for turning out to protest

    Did you donate your Soros check to charity?

  61. 61.

    JMG

    @Lurking Canadian: Our allies the Freedom Caucus wouldn’t go for that. Gonna be hard enough to get them to raise the debt ceiling without having it abolish Medicare, too.

  62. 62.

    charluckles

    I really don’t see tax reform playing the way it did during GWB. I think that’s misreading the 2016 election, a lot of folks supported Trump because they thought he was going to stick it to the fat cats. Anecdotedly, my Bircher neighbor sounds like Marx these days if you get him going about the wealthy and taxes.

  63. 63.

    WereBear

    @MomSense: I struggle with the ranking myself; there are so many rotten flavors of bad guy in their ranks.

    But yes; he seems to revel in it and that is incredibly obnoxious. Leopold and Loeb had such dreams, but even they only murdered one person.

  64. 64.

    efgoldman

    @Amir Khalid:

    of course President Trump knows this.

    Amir, you give him too much credit. We can NEVER say about ANYTHING “of course, the buffoon knows [x].” The correct assumption, until actual proof shows otherwise, is that he doesn’t know shit about anything except feeding his narcissism and whatever it is, it’s never his fault.

  65. 65.

    Baud

    @charluckles:

    a lot of folks supported Trump because they thought he was going to stick it to the fat cats.

    Cutting taxes on the rich is the one thing Trump didn’t lie about in the campaign.

  66. 66.

    Elizabelle

    @Lurking Canadian: Don’t give ’em any ideas!

    The Washington, DC Cherry Blossoms forecast is peak bloom this weekend, although they’ll be pretty for some time after that.

    From Cherry Blossoms Watch: today’s report:

    They’re looking good now, with many flowers out, and they’re going to start to look even better once this afternoon’s warmth rolls in and stays through the weekend. With temperatures in the 60s and mid-70s, they’re going to get a big caffeine jolt over the next few days. The NPS expects them to reach peak bloom Saturday or Sunday.

    So it’s shaping up beautifully for the weekend. The flowers will be out, it’ll be nice warm spring weather, and big crowds will turn up to enjoy it.

    Wait, weren’t they wiped out by the snowstorm?

    Despite the photos of cherry blossom popsicles, it wasn’t so much the snowstorm as a couple of nights with freezing temperatures right around that time. Hard freezes wiped out the blossoms that were in the last stage before actually blooming. That was about 50 percent of the total.

    But it turns out that that sounds worse than it looks, and they’ve bounced back remarkably well. There’s no question that the cold caused damage, and it’s very easy to find the after effects, especially up close.

    But they look much better than you might expect when you hear that half of them were wiped out. The fresh blossoms are to some extent masking the damage, and even some of the damaged blossoms are flowering. So my guess is that you’ll be pleasantly surprised at how good they look. The photos below were all taken this morning and give a good sense of where they’re at now. They’ll be looking even better over the next few days.

    So even if it’s probably not going to be a banner year for the cherry blossoms this year and they might not be bursting at the seams quite as much as usual, it’s still shaping up to be a beautiful show.

  67. 67.

    Elizabelle

    @efgoldman: I’m saving my SorosBucks for the next Balloon Juice meetup. Drinking liberally and conspiring among confederates against the state.

  69. 69.

    Elizabelle

    @MomSense: Ryan is among the most dangerous because he’s a blue eyed earnest looking wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    No one has illusions about Mitch McConnell or the Tea Partying crowd. But that nice Paul Ryan talks so nice, and looks so good, and he wouldn’t have that position if he wasn’t a highly skilled guy, would he?

    Plus, he’s buff. And Catholic. What a virtuous guy.

  70. 70.

    WereBear

    @efgoldman: I agree. I am glad many folks have never struggled to get out of a narcissist’s vortex.

    While Republicans in general have a serious problem with mixing up their fantasies with actual reality, with someone like Trump, there is no difference.

  71. 71.

    charluckles

    @Baud:

    True, but when the actual plan comes out and the numbers start rolling, its going to be ugly. It’s a lot easier to sell campaign pablum about the evils of taxation and regulation than it is to give yourself and your cronies a massive tax cut with hard numbers attached.

  72. 72.

    debbie

    @Elizabelle:

    The tree outside my window has begun to bloom. I was sure the almost-zero temperatures had spelled doom for my favorite part of the year. The tulip magnolias don’t seem to have recovered, but maybe spring will be better than I’d expected.

  73. 73.

    Baud

    @charluckles: I agree. But it’s not like health care where Trump lied about giving people a better plan than Obamacare. If people thought that Trump was going to stick to the rich, they lied to themselves.

  75. 75.

    WereBear

    @charluckles: And while people decry social media, THAT is how the facts on the tax cuts will get out and spread across the nation.

    The few journalists who still do their jobs have their impact multiplied this way. And unlike the C+ Augustus, no one besides his fans trust the F for Failure Trump.

  76. 76.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    If people thought that Trump was going to stick to the rich, they lied to themselves.

    Did he not lead them on with his talk of “draining the swamp” and “international bankers”?

  78. 78.

    amk

    @Baud: He also said he will destroy obamacare, build the wall, throw out the rapist mexicans on day 1 and failed in everyone of them. His base voted for him for all this shite, not for tax cuts. His wet dream of tax cuts for himself and his buddies not gonna happen, despite that being the wet dream of zegs and co also.

    eta: provided dems don’t fold.

  80. 80.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Yeah, I think dropping healthcare may mean Richard Cordray of the CFPB may be returning to Ohio sooner than anticipated. Killing the CFPB will not be a good thing for this country.

  81. 81.

    Baud

    @amk: Right. All I’m saying is that this is one area where Trump didn’t lie about what he was going to do.

  83. 83.

    germy

    Overheard on Grimm last night:

    “I thought the devil carries a pitchfork.” “Well, technically it’s a trident. He’s not a farmer.”

  84. 84.

    mai naem mobile

    I can’t be bothered to look it up but HuffPo’s header was :
    Breaking: Republicans
    Hahahaha.

  85. 85.

    WereBear

    @Baud: Those rallies? He could have told them he’d have them all roasted on sticks and they would still think he meant the people they hated. Not them!

  86. 86.

    Immanentize

    @Zach: if by Byrd rule, you mean reconciliation; Congress can only go that route once each year — and they have just finished that effort for this year. So, no more reconciliation processes until 2018.

  87. 87.

    amk

    When Trump trekked to Capitol Hill to make his case in person on Tuesday, lawmakers were mostly nonplussed. “Not a whole lot about health care, except to vote for it,” Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C., said afterward. He remained opposed.

    Other lawmakers said Trump wasn’t at all conversant in the specifics and mainly wanted to talk about his popularity in their districts – or how voting against the proposed bill could hurt them politically. But the proposed law ended up polling below 20 percent – and the president’s approval rating dropped below 40 percent.

    A totally self-absorbed narcissist to the core. That will be his undoing when he finally crashes and burns.

  88. 88.

    D58826

    It seems to me that the D’s were handed several gifts yesterday.
    The first and most obvious is that Obamacare is still alive. Unfortunately Price at HHS has enough knives in his toolkit that he can kill Obamacare with a thousand cuts and not leave any fingerprints for the average nonpolitical junkie/policy wonk to see.

    The second gift was watching this entire charade blow up in Ryan/Trumps faces.

    The biggest gift is the one that the D’s have yet to open and figure out how to use. The current GOP is not the pro-business GOP of the 1950’s/1960’s that was willing to settle for the 1% owning only 70% of the economy. The events of the past few weeks have exposed the dark evil heart of the little man behind the curtain that is today’s GOP. The rhetoric and policies of Trump and his supporters has stripped away 40 years of buzz words/code words/dog whistles when it comes to minorities, POC, immigrants etc. The racist/sexist heart is now there for all to see. Last weeks attempted repeal of Obamacare and the huge tax cut for the 1% has shown the world that the GOP concern for family values, pro-life, the concerns of the WWC are just so many talking points. They will throw their base under the bus in a heartbeat in order to give the 1% more money. The Koch brothers were opposed to the repeal, not because of a pro-life concern for pre-natal care but because the tax cuts were not large enough. This is what and who the GOP, in particular, and libertarian/conservatism in general are today.

    This is the gift that the D’s have been given. The GOP can’t hide behind buzz words or cliches. They can’t claim to be pro-life while denying pregnant woman and their babies access to medical care. They can’t claim to be pro-family when they are willing to let Grandma starve by cutting meals on wheels or literally kicking her to the curb by cutting the Medicaid funding that pays for her nursing home care.

    Do I think they can take advantage of it? I’m not optimistic. The Clinton/centrist wing and the Bernie Bro wing are still fighting over last years primaries. The DNC and Ellison/Perez have to develop a platform that they can sell to the voters in liberal Calif. and much less liberal Ohio. They have to have an approach that can win state and local elections in North Dakota and Mass. They have to avoid the entire ‘purity pony’ approach to candidate selection. I’ve said this before but Liz Warren, whatever her virtues is not going to get elected in Iowa. They have to figure out a way to neutralize the culture issues. For example, they have to be able to say to folks who are opposed to gay marriage that while the party will not compromise on the issue we can make common cause on things like affordable health care. That it might be emotionally satisfying to deny gay couples the right to marry but what have you gained when at the same time you can’t afford to take your kids to the pediatrician?

    If the D’s can’t drive a stake into the evil heart of the GOP by winning elections at all levels then they might as well go the way of the ‘know nothings’

  91. 91.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @D58826:

    Unfortunately Price at HHS has enough knives in his toolkit that he can kill Obamacare with a thousand cuts and not leave any fingerprints for the average nonpolitical junkie/policy wonk to see.

    They won’t be able to hide the fact that they destroyed it no matter how adroit they are. If it dies while they have power, they will get the blame, because they could have fixed it, but instead they “fixed” it.

  92. 92.

    amk

    @D58826:

    Unfortunately Price at HHS has enough knives in his toolkit that he can kill Obamacare with a thousand cuts

    I keep seeing that meme around here. Given the 100% shitshow from this ‘admin’ so far, I doubt it. The rethugs always overreach and fall flat when it comes to governance.

  94. 94.

    debit

    For the first time since Election Day I woke up happy. Trump has got loser stink all over him and it’s not going to wash off easily.

  95. 95.

    Elizabelle

    @D58826: I disagree.

    IMHO, my nonpolitical friends woke right up about Trump and this, and are woke. I think the Democrats will get a lot of pressure to resist and do the right thing. I don’t think Tom Price is going to have the cloak of darkness he was expecting as he tries to gut the ACA. A lot more people get that the GOP in Congress and the Trump administration don’t work for citizens, but for the wealthy and big business.

    I don’t think the Democrats are as weak and divided as you say.

  96. 96.

    Elizabelle

    @D58826: Shorter response: I am not in the mood to dump on the Democrats.

    They stood united against this travesty yesterday. They’re not going to go the way of the Know Nothings.

    Get over your damn self. Can’t we celebrate this battle victory in what’s a long war without doom and glooming?

  97. 97.

    D58826

    @amk: Well Trump may be a clown but Price isn’t. They have already said they will not enforce the mandate. From what David has said there are ways states can file for exceptions that, if granted, will make it harder for people to enroll. Congress can include poison pills in various pieces of legislation that while not repealing Obamacare can make the exchanges less attractive to the ins. companies. But the biggest risk as I understand it is a federal law suit, filed by the House, that attacks one of the funding mechanisms. The Obama admin. lost at the district level before a conservative GOP appointed judge. If HHS does not appeal that decision then the district court decision stands and the funding dries up. I forget all of the details but it is a major threat to Obamacare. SO just because Trump is a fool doesn’t mean that those in positions of power are fools also. Well brain surgeon Ben and OOPs Perry may be the exceptions

  99. 99.

    Corner Stone

    I’m nervous y’all. No, not about health care reform or taxes or Russia’s favorite puppet nuking the whole world when he’s finally trapped. The power is out and AMJoy is coming on in less than 15 minutes!
    WTF am I gonna do?!

  100. 100.

    debit

    @Corner Stone: Run down the block until you find a house with power, knock on the door and tell them that unless you can watch AMJoy you’ll make a scene right there on the front steps. That always works for me. Or was it Rainman?

  102. 102.

    amk

    @D58826: Don’t know much about price’s capabilities as a papercuts expert, but given the twitler’s trumpcare is already in my rearview mirror disinterest, zegs showing his incompetence as speaker and the not so crazy caucus kneecapping them both, I can’t see what could motivate herr doktor to walk into that shredder.

  104. 104.

    D58826

    @Elizabelle:

    I don’t think the Democrats are as weak and divided as you say.

    Couple of things. Yes celebrate the victory and enjoy Trump and Ryan looking like fools but the freedom caucus isn’t going away and neither is the Kochopus. It may have already rolled off Twitter feed but there was an article late yesterday that most of the opposition to Trump care came from the grass roots and most of those ‘roots’ were women. The D establishment was not heavily involved in the effort.

    My main point was the party has been given a golden opportunity to show the country what the GOP really is by using the GOP’s own words.

    As far as the party being ‘disorganized’ I will defer to the words of Will Rodger’s ‘I don’t belong to an organized political party I’m a democrat’.

  106. 106.

    Baud

    @Elizabelle:

    I don’t think the Democrats are as weak and divided as you say.

    We’ll get there, if the internet has anything to say about it.

  107. 107.

    WereBear

    @Elizabelle: I agree with you. I have never seen people so aware and politically intent as I have since the election. I have never had my own thoughts so spontaneously offered by others. (Except, here.)

    The consequences of not voting are suddenly so stark and frightening it was like a jolt of adrenaline to the entire populace.

  109. 109.

    Mary G

    I am cheerful this morning. Trump is still in the honeymoon phase; think about how much lower his approval rating cango!

  110. 110.

    Elizabelle

    @WereBear: And people are not suffering wingnuts or the blithely uninformed (“both sides”) silently any more. They’re out of control because they think they’re the majority.

    They are not.

  115. 115.

    JMG

    1. Price is indeed a clown. He is also as far as we know still under investigation by the Southern District of New York Attorney’s Office for insider trading. Plus, administrative actions that undercut laws are subject to legal challenge.
    2. There are wins and losses in politics. Enjoy the wins or you lose balance needed to keep struggling.
    3. There is no fault to find with the Democratic Party on this one. Bernie did his bit, everybody did. As for a unified message, I think the GOP has given it to us. “Vote for the Democrats. We won’t screw you over.”

  116. 116.

    D58826

    @schrodingers_cat: i repeat – As far as the party being ‘disorganized’ I will defer to the words of Will Rodger’s ‘I don’t belong to an organized political party I’m a democrat’. I didn’t say they were going to blow the opportunity just that they have been presented with a big short term win and now have to turn it into a long term winning strategy. If they can’t take advantage of the incompetence and corruption of the Trump era then what are they good for? And I would not underestimate the competence of the GOP in general even if they did look like fools yesterday. May I remind every one of the elections of 2010, 2014 and 2016 in which the GOP now controls the entire federal government, will soon have an ultra Conservative on the SC, control most of the state legislatures and are one or two states away from having the number of states to call a constitutional convention. There is a lot of work to do to convert yesterday win into getting a progressive agenda enacted into law.

  117. 117.

    Corner Stone

    @debit:

    Run down the block until you find a house with power, knock on the door and tell them that unless you can watch AMJoy you’ll make a scene right there on the front steps

    Few problems with that 1)the whole neighborhood is down 2)I am way too lazy to extend past my comfort zone bubble 3)I live in a heavy, heavy red district so chances are I’m running into a rwnj household D)no idea where my boxers are at the moment

    AAAAGGGHHHH!!! IT.HAS.BEGUN!

  118. 118.

    Elizabelle

    @JMG:

    “Vote for the Democrats. We won’t screw you over.”

    Works for me.

    Actually it’s great. Short, and gets the reader to think about all the times the Republicans did (or tried to) screw them over. Also reassuring to those who have to put up with a wingnut in the family who hasn’t figured that out yet. They’re not crazy. It’s the wingnut.

  119. 119.

    hovercraft

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Trump does not know anything that contradicts what he wants to believe at that moment. I’m completely serious about this. His memories and concept of reality change to suit his emotions at any moment. Anybody who’s known a narcissist has seen how that works.

    He fits “facts” to his perception of reality. Yes he’s lying and he knows he’s lying, but he’s also lying to himself, convincing himself that the person or people he’s lying to will believe his lies. There is a dangerous combination of self delusion and a confidence that he is such a great man and con man that he can make anyone believe anything he wants. It’s that confidence that makes him say shit like “fake news”, to him that can be the only reason his con’s not going over as well as he expected, the media are distracting from his con, pointing out his slight of hand, if only they’d just shut up, the rubes would never see the strings or the trap doors. He’s always had the media around on his terms, and this new media landscape is alien to him, just cutting them off isn’t stopping their negative coverage of him, Turns out that while yes most would give their right arm for access to his personage, they don’t actually need it to do their jobs. Without this leverage, he can’t punish them.

  121. 121.

    hovercraft

    @debit:
    You can stream it on your device, just enter your provider account information.

    ETA: that was for @Corner Stone ;-)

  122. 122.

    D58826

    @Elizabelle:

    “Vote for the Democrats. We won’t screw you over.

    Ah in a long round about way that was my point. It’s a great game plan now all they have to do is go out and execute it.

  123. 123.

    rikyrah

    @debit:
    Went to sleep happy and woke up happy.
    Talked with a friend last night in Atlanta, and he just unloaded about how he was pumping his fist at the news. Like me, he refuses to go through the 5 stages of grief. He said that he had been in the depression stage. I told him that I was in the rage stage, and had decided to stay there. We both knew that acceptance was never coming.

  124. 124.

    DissidentFish

    Would love to see what treatment he’d give a non-Christian with sincerely held religious beliefs, like say a Muslim employer banning people from eating pork at the office or something similar.

    Respectfully, it is not common, even among religious Muslims, to object to non-Muslims eating pork. Not unlike Orthodox Jewish persons, Muslims are forbidden to consume pork, and therefore they will also avoid cookware and kitchens where pork products are mixed with other food, and avoid additives and chemicals where pork products might be found. Religious Muslims and Orthodox Jews are also not the best people to pick for pig rodeo or kiss the pig contests. But they don’t care if non-believers eat pork, kill pigs, etc. And many, many Muslims in western cultures work in food service and handle pork.

    Religious Hindus, on the other hand, do have objections to people killing cattle and eating beef. In the West, they may not tell you, but it isn’t very comfortable for them to watch people chow down on a burger. And in India, the Hindutva movement would absolutely ban the killing and eating of cattle … and that may happen within the next couple of years. (Truth be told, that movement is about power, not religion, but the effect may end up the same).

    Your point that Christian “fundies” have fewer superstitions is true in a way — but really that’s just when it comes to food. When it come to, say, sexuality, I’d say Christians don’t take second place to any…

  125. 125.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Mary G:

    He’s extremely wounded, as both House and Senate GOPers have realized that he’s got no “oomph” to his words.

    That is what comes of having no mandate, but pretending you do while making large moves. Bravado and bluster can get you by in developer world, but not so much as a political officeholder subject to statutory restraints.

  126. 126.

    amk

    @hovercraft: And the cowardly lil fingered pos ran to the same #FAKENEWS of wapo and nyt to throw zegs under the bus over what was essentially his disaster. Even some trumpanzees on the twitter could see through his bs.

  128. 128.

    Iowa Old Lady

    So do we think people will rise up against tax cuts for the wealthy? I’m somewhat doubtful. They’ll hate it, but they won’t feel personally threatened the way they did about health insurance. That would be too bad because maldistribution of wealth is an underlying factor for a lot of our problems, and tax policy would be one way to rectify that.

    The ACA is actually a wealth transfer, which is one reason Rs hate it.

  129. 129.

    PaulW

    People, I gotta ask you, have ANY of you ever heard of The Tuesday Group – a center-right faction in the Republican ranks – before this week?

    I’ve been trying to pay attention for years to what’s going on in politics, and this is the first week I’d heard of them. According to the Wiki, they’ve been around since the 1990s (!).

    And yet I don’t think they ever get invited to the Sunday talk shows, or the evening rant shows, or make the cover of TIME or The Atlantic, or even the local papers.

    This is what happens when the Beltway/Mainstream Media focuses only on the wingnuts like Gohmert and Steve King and Cruz, or on the media hogs like McCain and Lindsey Graham.

    ‘Cause it wasn’t just the Freedom Caucus railing against the AHCA – trying to make it more EVIL – it was the Tuesday Group railing against the AHCA because it WAS evil.

  130. 130.

    D58826

    from a USA Today article

    Political analyst Stuart Rothenberg called it “quite an admission” for Ryan to acknowledge the GOP is not yet a “governing party.”

    The democrats should be running that clip during every station break on every sporting event/soap opera or reality show with the tag line ‘and the democrats aim to see that you never will be’ from now until Nov. 2018. They should ruin the clip of Obama saying why do we want to give the car keys to the same people that ran into the ditch the last time.

  131. 131.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Hahaha! Listening to Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me and Paula Poundstone started talking about Sean Spicer and “his father, Geppetto.” LOL.

  132. 132.

    Calouste

    @amk: Not really surprising that an MP who went from the Tories to UKIP now becomes and independent. Wilders in the Netherlands has similar problems, he lost I think 4 MPs out of 17 or so during the previous parliament. Turns out, as the shitgibbon also found out yesterday, that there are people who are extreme rightwingers, yet still aren’t full-blown fascists, i.e. they think that there are more people in the party who should have a say than just the Leader.

  133. 133.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @PaulW:

    I’m guessing that the median philosophical position in the Tuesday Group is that of Charlie Dent.

  134. 134.

    Sunny Raines

    Steps to MAGA:

    1) impeach, convict, imprison trump, pence, and cabal for treason

    2) hold special elections for every state and federal position to flush out republicans.

    3) breakup Big Media

    4) deport trump voters to Russia

  135. 135.

    schrodingers_cat

    @DissidentFish:

    Religious Hindus, on the other hand, do have objections to people killing cattle and eating beef. In the West, they may not tell you, but it isn’t very comfortable for them to watch people chow down on a burger. And in India, the Hindutva movement would absolutely ban the killing and eating of cattle … and that may happen within the next couple of years. (Truth be told, that movement is about power, not religion, but the effect may end up the same).

    Most Hindus, religious or otherwise have no problems with others eating beef. There are beef eating Hindus as well. Its politicized Hindu right that has made it into a big issue. It is fairly unpopular in India and states which has BJP governments at the state level. Proselytizing about vegetarianism is more a Jain thing than a Hindu thing.

  137. 137.

    debit

    @rikyrah:

    I told him that I was in the rage stage, and had decided to stay there. We both knew that acceptance was never coming.

    YES. I will never accept this and will continue to rage and fight.

  140. 140.

    hovercraft

    @amk:
    The WSJ this week, the NY POST this morning, and Fox sporadically, have been critical of him, the shine is definitely off. The conservasphere was also unhappy with him because the legislation wasn’t cruel enough, while the rubes hated that it was hurting them, so he pissed off both sides of his base.
    His problem with FAKE NEWS this time is that it’s favorite outlets doing the criticism. Yes Bannon’s old shop is trying to put it all on ZEGS, but he lobbied for it, and issued an ultimatum for them to pass it or else!!
    Loser is a loser. The fact that Spicey and KAC were all out there touting his ability as a “closer” makes his defeat all the more obvious to everyone.

  143. 143.

    MomSense

    Hate it when one of my kids is going through a hard time. I know there isn’t anything I can do but the urge to extreme helicopter parent – as in not just hover but send in a whole team of coast guard rescue swimmers with the basket – is sooo strong.

  144. 144.

    tobie

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Trump is Your Racist Uncle, the ranting, proudly ignorant, perpetually angry asshole who is never wrong and wants you to know who he hates…The Republican Voters wanted someone who represents them.

    This captures every Trump voter I know in a nutshell. He was their brand; in his disrespect for all norms, they saw themselves; and he weaponized their hate. The one thing to keep in mind all this is that many of his voters are convinced that the white liberal elite looks down on them. I’m not sure that shaming Trump will make them reevaluate their positions. More likely it will exacerbate their sense that everyone’s out to get them. I don’t know how the US works its way out of this hole. We’ve become a tribal nation.

  147. 147.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @hovercraft:

    Please oh please oh please let there be a new SNL tonight, an aged Trump (played by Baldwin) going for the coffeemaker for a cup, with somebody else doing the Baldwin “coffee is for closers” dialogue from “Glengarry Glen Ross”.

  149. 149.

    DissidentFish

    @schrodingers_cat: You are correct that the ban movement is a political thing, which is what I was trying to get at with the “power” comment. Most Hindus — most people — are polite, but (being Indian-American and all), I’ll stand by my statement that for religious Hindus, it is not completely comfortable to watch others eat beef. As a friend once said to me “You can think of it like how you’d feel if you were watching someone eat dog meat. If you believe that dogs are endowed with spirit as sacred as human spirit.” Then I ordered the salad…

  151. 151.

    hovercraft

    Oh look Evil Spawn is just as popular as her Dad is in DC

    Neighbors of Trump, her husband Jared Kushner and their three children have groused that sidewalks have been closed, public parking overrun and that the family and their staff can’t even be bothered to learn the trash pickup schedule outside their $5.5-million home.

    “It has been a three-ring circus from the day that they’ve moved in,” said Marietta Robinson, who lives across the street, speaking with The Associated Press. “They’ve completely ruined the neighborhood.”

    The house in the Kalorama neighborhood was bought in December by a company with ties to a Chilean billionaire. The company is renting it to Kushner and Trump, who moved in just after the inauguration of her father, President Donald Trump. Both work in the White House as advisers to the president.

    Residents of the enclave of four- and five-story townhomes and elegant single-family properties about 2 miles north of the White House are accustomed to VIP neighbors. Former President Barack Obama and his family have lived there since he left office, and the Secret Service closed off their entire block to traffic. Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos bought a home there, and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson also moved in recently.

    Yet no one has raised the ire of the community like the Trumps. At a recent neighborhood commission meeting, Fox News anchor Chris Wallace was among those who showed up to complain about parking problems

  152. 152.

    Roger Moore

    @Zach:

    There’s three realistic options for GOP on taxes: (1) pay for it with Medicaid cuts, (2) 10-year sunset a la Bush cuts, (3) tear up the Byrd rule or cheat on revenue projections.

    You left out 4) plan for failure they can blame on the Democrats. That’s the option I’m going with.

  154. 154.

    WereBear

    @tobie: The one thing to keep in mind all this is that many of his voters are convinced that the white liberal elite looks down on them.

    Well, we all do, not just the “elites.” I don’t know how to get around the fact that they are hateful, deplorable, nasty pieces of work.

    They were this way in elementary school when they bullied me for getting good grades, in junior high when they started being defensive about what idiots they were, and in high school when they became aware that if they went on this way, their lives would be a trash heap… and they did not change their ways.

    They are the woman in the store who screams at me when I try to keep their untrained brats from hurting themselves, and the man anywhere who thinks his mere genotype is enough to make him superior to me.

    I guess I welcome their hatred!

  157. 157.

    MomSense

    @Elizabelle:

    There are a million reasons to slow it all down but especially the Gorsuch so called nomination. Republicans just couldn’t allow a popular and fairly elected two term president to fill the SCOTUS vacancy in the last year of his presidency. Well I don’t happen to think Putin’s puppet should be able to get an extremist with an aw shucks affectation on the court while he is under investigation for colluding with a hostile foreign power that invaded our country in order to steal an election. Let’s call it fruit of the poisonous tree.
    Even if this whole process weren’t tainted by the traitorous nature of the president and the election, Gorsuch is a monster. He’s one of those horrors who hides his cruelty behind his faith and family.

  158. 158.

    oldster

    So are we ready for the next battle?

    “First the Republicans came for your health care.
    Now they want to loot the Treasury.
    Tell your Representative: no tax-cuts for fat-cats.”

  161. 161.

    D58826

    @Elizabelle: Agreed on filibustering the nomination. At the risk of being a pessimist ( I prefer realist) again there is a downside. Turtle can go nuclear and get the confirmation with 51 votes. BUT he can also go nuclear on all legislation. That would allow the GOP to do tax cuts, granny starving budgets, repeal of Obamacare (if it comes up again) etc etc with just 51 votes.

    Remember they were going to use reconciliation to gut key portions of Obamacare but some of the House provisions would not have qualified for that process. Obviously at this point the Obamacare issue is academic but there is a lot of legislation the GOP wants to pass that has to go thru regular order and it would be much easier if it only needed 51 votes

  162. 162.

    Anya

    AL, please add this tweet of Papa Roach sick burning ZEGS to cap off his most embarrassing day.

    When we feel defeated we listen to Paul Ryan. ?— Papa Roach (@paparoach) March 25, 2017

  163. 163.

    D58826

    @OGLiberal: The short answer is yes while in office. Not sure about once they leave office or relatives like brothers, sisters, aunts or uncles. I guess the protection would be offered if there was a threat

  164. 164.

    JMG

    @D58826: The filibuster exists for the protection of the majority as well as the minority. It allows Senators to vote for things that would hurt them electorally if they passed but that their base wants. That’s why about the first thing McConnell did after Nov. 8 was say he wasn’t about to change the filibuster. I believe he will do so for the Court, but otherwise no. It’d just be a one-off, but he’s got to do it, because otherwise why bother to blackball Garland?

  165. 165.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @hovercraft:

    The entire goddamned family is just a bunch of entitled cunts. She’s no different than her dad/lover, her piece-of-shit brothers, her asshole husband and his felon father, the ridiculous fictional wife Melanoma. Everyone is here to provide them status and freebies, no matter the cost or sacrifice.

  166. 166.

    tobie

    @WereBear:

    They were this way in elementary school when they bullied me for getting good grades.

    Wow, that characterization tapped into something deep. I’ve tried to forget what elementary school was like for years. Not every Trump voter I know was a schoolyard bully, but many were, and they are without a doubt the incorrigibles, the 27%, the types that will cut off their nose to spite their face.

    (The latter is by the way really, really bad for the country.)

  168. 168.

    hovercraft

    @amk:
    Everything they touch turns to shit, and yet they walk away with millions while everyone else is left holding the bag. What a legacy!

  170. 170.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @D58826: The filibuster is on life support anyway, dead in all but name. We both know McConnell is going to pull the plug on it at some point in time. As far as I am concerned we should get it over with.

  172. 172.

    ArchTeryx

    Watching them faceplant so publicly, when they control all the levers of power, was entirely precious.

    Watching them faceplant on something that would amount to mass murder of the poor – me included – was priceless. It’s like I’ve been given a new lease on life, despite the Crohn’s diagnosis.

  174. 174.

    WereBear

    @tobie: I was a very unsatisfactory victim.

    “What’s the matter with you? You think you can make me feel bad for doing something good? Yes, I’m stuck up. You are just proving that I am better than you, every single time you tease me for being smart and nice. I’m not ashamed of being smart and nice. It’s better than being stupid and mean.” And so forth. Always could run my mouth :)

    I mean, yeah, I would get punched and tripped and once, in sixth grade, almost thrown off a bridge a couple of stories high. But they never made me feel ashamed of being me, and they knew it.

  175. 175.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    @JPL:

    Trump appeared to be calm and measured after the defeat. I think he knows the fix is in.

    And his meds have kicked in… wait until they wear off around 4 am… he’ll be out wandering the WH grounds, howling at the moon…

  177. 177.

    OGLiberal

    @D58826: Reagan had four adult kids, right? They all had SS coverage? Did the six Bush k8dsget it while Poppy was president? Not challenging what you said, just seems weird and new.

  179. 179.

    Chris T.

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Trump does not know anything that contradicts what he wants to believe at that moment. I’m completely serious about this. His memories and concept of reality change to suit his emotions at any moment. Anybody who’s known a narcissist has seen how that works.

    Yes, this seems exactly right to me. It’s what makes Trump such a good used-car salesman: when he tells you this is the best used car ever, that all those rust holes are charming and none of them are dangerous in the least, he actually believes it while he says it. That suppresses most or all of the “I am lying” tells that normal, sane humans have.

  180. 180.

    schrodingers_cat

    @tobie: I only know one T voter IRL and his wife voted for JS. They both have had difficult relationships with their parents. Both had awful narcissistic mothers (according to their telling, I have not met their mothers, myself).

  181. 181.

    ArchTeryx

    @Baud: Really happy I’m here to be one of the snarling jackals on a permanent basis. I’m going to be sure to give my D House rep a call thanking him for his opposition to that POS bill. How often do they get calls from constituents not to complain or ask for help, but just to thank them?

  182. 182.

    Another Scott

    @debbie: TheAtlantic from 2011:

    Remember John Edwards’s $400 haircut? That turned out to be quite a problem for him. It looks like Paul Ryan is about have a similar problem on his hands. According to this astounding article (with pictures) at Talking Points Memo, Ryan — the leader of the tighten-your-belt, fiscal-austerity crowd — is in the habit of drinking $350-a-bottle wine, specifically Jayer-Gilles 2004 Echezeaux Grand Cru. In fact, Ryan enjoyed two bottles of this fancy Pinor Noir while dining the other night with a pair of conservative economists at Bistro Bis, the swanky Capitol Hill restaurant favored by lobbyists and other expense-account barons.

    Ryan had the misfortune of sitting at the table next to Susan Feinberg, a Rutgers business professor, who didn’t share his nonchalance about calling for draconian budget cuts for the poor and elderly by day and then sipping $350-a-bottle wine by night. Feinberg confronted Ryan after dinner and demanded to know “how he could live with himself.”

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  183. 183.

    Baud

    @ArchTeryx: That’s great. On my RSS feed, there is a post on Kos telling people we should thank Dems for standing together. Last time I saw one of those posts there a few years ago (can’t remember what the Dems did right), the comments were atrocious. Didn’t have the heart to check this time, but I hope people have matured.

  184. 184.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @WereBear: A buddy of mine was so nice in grade school he was the kid everybody tried to beat up and a couple times kill. He is still one of the nicest people I know. You and he should trade stories.

  186. 186.

    Immanentize

    @MomSense: I totally get that. I never really understood my parents until my son was born. My mom (86) recently told me — “We (Mother and Father) discussed it. We committed to raising you all as independent kids. But it hurts sometimes that we did such a good job.”

    Kid will get through their strife — and so will you.

  187. 187.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Chris T.:

    he actually believes it while he says it.

    My ex wife worked this scam. Once I figured it out,it was interesting to watch her work herself into this mental state.

  189. 189.

    WereBear

    @OzarkHillbilly: He sounds like my people :)

    It was my first encounters with self-hate… on their part. And then, I got to be a teen babysitter, and saw just how low this path in life could take you. Women who left abusive husbands and had to live in a crummy trailer with no electricity. They could afford me to come over and sleep there while they worked in bars… or something.

    Those poor damned kids. And they were actually better off than the ones whose mothers didn’t leave.

    Don’t know about them, but it spurred me to better my options.

  190. 190.

    ArchTeryx

    @Baud: Yeah, well, the Purity Ponies still make a lot of noise in Kos’ comment sections, but they aren’t 100% of them either. Particularly in THIS fight, they just come off as nuts as the Tea Partiers and just as thirsty for blood, as long as it isn’t their blood. Fuck ’em and their privilege.

  192. 192.

    schrodingers_cat

    Yesterday I tuned into Pure Bullshit Newshour after almost a 5 month hiatus. Guess what I saw, Whory Woodruff was giving a Democratic Congressman a hard time questioning him using R talking points. What has happened to her. She was not so craven and the in the tank for Rs back when she was on CNN in the late 90s. I immediately turned off my TV, realizing my mistake.

  193. 193.

    Elizabelle

    @Another Scott: And that 2011 story about the expensive wine ($70/glass!; 2 bottles) went in the memory banks of political junkies, and totally unseen or remembered by anyone else. They just see the sincere baby blues and “I’m the boy next door” manner.

    Dining with two conservative economists. LOL. Checking the story now to see if they’re named. They would be conservatards.

  195. 195.

    Immanentize

    @hovercraft: ah, parking. The final straw. Clark Kerr, former University of California President, is reported to have said the three keys to a president’s success are sports for alumni, sex for students, and parking for faculty.

  196. 196.

    ArchTeryx

    @OzarkHillbilly: We’ll see if you’re still saying that in a few years! ^.^

    Seriously, this weekend is a time to celebrate, before the coming fights ahead. Yeah, my particular ox isn’t going to get gored, but Tom Price can still immiserate a lot of people and the media will keep right on fluffing Paul “Rand” Ryan. At least I can join the fight now, not just hunker down and spend all my time trying to prepare for the disaster.

  197. 197.

    Another Scott

    @amk: Dunno. TheAtlantic (from November):

    But Price can exercise some of the broad powers of the secretary’s office right away to make the ongoing effort to implement Obamacare more difficult, even if some of those provisions survive what is expected to be a rapid move in Congress to repeal it. For one, the text of the ACA was noted—and derided—for its thousands of references to the secretary of HHS in sections known as the “secretary shall” clauses, which placed quite a bit of the burden on the department itself to determine the final shape of several reforms.

    Among the reforms left in the purview of the department are the actual creation and maintenance of the HealthCare.Gov website, the establishment of federally run exchanges in recalitrant or struggling states, and the administration of the Center for Consumer Information & Insurance Oversight, which is designed to implement the private-insurance reforms of the ACA. After a year that has seen large increases in premiums, the exit of major insurers from the exchanges, and a reluctance among young people to sign up for insurance, the Obama administration has leaned on this statutory authority to make fixes, including plans to recruit additional insurers and bolster outreach to young people. With exchanges in such a precarious position, Price’s department could choose not to pursue these additional reforms or simply cease improving and effectively administering exchange functions.

    One part of Obamacare that Price and Verma would have authority over on day one is the added branch of CMS designed to test and implement changes in the actual delivery of and payment for healthcare in the country. The Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation was established in the Affordable Care Act, and has been authorized to act as a grantor and innovation lab for different state plans to address some of the largest cost drivers in health.

    Price has been an outspoken critic of the innovation center, especially as it has experimented with shifting Medicare payments from fee-for-service to a value-based model that would not pay physicians on traditional volume metrics, but on a set of metrics emphasizing quality and efficiency. Price has expressed concern that these changes limit the discretion of physicians, and intrude into the doctor-patient relationship. One of the main populations of patients affected by these CMMI demonstration grants are “dual-eligibles,” or patients eligible for both Medicaid and Medicare—generally those at the intersection of old age, low-incomes, and often disabilities. The new HHS and CMS could roll back any potential patient gains or data gleaned from these projects.

    A lesser-known provision of the Affordable Care Act is its Section 1557, the nondiscrimination portion required by the Civil Rights Act, which applies to HHS’s authority even beyond the individual reforms of Obamacare. Price’s department has the authority to interpret that provision in its regulations. This year, under Secretary Sylvia Burwell, HHS used that rule to grant protections to transgender individuals and ensure that they could not be denied coverage or treatment on the basis of gender identity. Given Price’s objection to the Obama administration’s recent guidelines on bathrooms for transgender people, it seems likely his HHS might renege on the promise to transgender people.

    The Department of Health and Human Services also provides a significant portion of the funding that Planned Parenthood receives, and Price has been in favor of defunding the organization and making abortion illegal. As my colleague Olga Khazan notes, Price has been generally in favor of forcing women to pay copays for contraceptives as well. While Republicans in Congress seem likely to move the law in Price’s favor on both fronts anyways, it’s worth noting that in a few months, he will possess the main statutory authority to make independent decisions on both questions.

    Even if Price orders things that are against the laws and the rules, it takes time for court challenges, appeals, etc. Many organizations can’t take the risk that government funding won’t show up or won’t be as much as they expect, so they’ll have to go in lock-down mode – hurting real people in the process.

    It’s easy for an administration to throw gravel in the gears of government if it wants to.

    We have to fight them every single day. No gain is safe with these monsters in power.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  199. 199.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Corner Stone:

    When this is over, I want them to all feel obligated to change their names and facial appearances so that they can no longer be recognized in public, for fear of spitting and physical assault.

  200. 200.

    Corner Stone

    @Elizabelle:

    And that 2011 story about the expensive wine ($70/glass!; 2 bottles) went in the memory banks of political junkies, and totally unseen or remembered by anyone else. They just see the sincere baby blues and “I’m the boy next door” manner.

    “Speaker Ryan! Speaker Ryan! Can you justify whipping for policies that damage the poor while being dined by wealthy lobbyists? Can you give us an answer sir?!”
    *oh!…he’s rolling up his sleeves!* *and those blue sincere eyes!*
    RYAN: “I’m sorry. What was your question again?” *blink blink*
    *SWOON* “Uh, it was just that I was wondering how someone could be so perfectly policy wonky and at the same time so dreamy?”

  201. 201.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @schrodingers_cat: It was an inner city Catholic School. They would wait in ambush for Dave. One kid came at him with a straight razor (I forget how many stitches he got in his hands) and another time a much larger kid tried to throw him out a 3rd floor window (his older brother passed by just in time to save Dave).

    This school was definitely rough as none of that was the worst thing to happen. That was when a 7th grade class threw an 80 yr old nun out a 3rd floor window. When asked they all said she jumped. No matter how hard the cops tried they couldn’t get a single child to break from that story.

    And I thought I had it bad with Sister Kathleen who only beat me 2 or 3 times a week whether I needed it or not.

  202. 202.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodingers_cat: That is a dismal fact. On a quick hunt, I am not finding the con-econs’ names. But Paul Ryan reads one of them. So maybe on National Review or some libertarian fantasy rag … so far, only the wine has been identified.

    @OzarkHillbilly: Take it the nun did not survive? Oy vey.

  203. 203.

    D58826

    @JMG: I have mixed emotions about the filibuster. It certainly has been abused the past 8 years but it does provide a protection from the majority running roughshod over the minority.

    What is maddening is that the 60 vote threshold has been normalized by the media. How many time have you seen an article that the D’s were unable to get 60 votes to pass a piece of legislation. They don’t need 60 to pass legislation. They only need 51. They need 60 for cloture to end the filibuster. Maybe it’s a small point that only political junkies care about but it does seem that people should understand how their government works

  205. 205.

    Immanentize

    @OGLiberal: They do get secret service protection — depending on whether they want any and what is appropriate to their ages, etc. It used to be much more low key and not a topic. Also, too, I remember that when Jenna Bush was at UT — and got caught drinking underage at, I think, Chuy’s, the secret service was there (outside, quiet) while that was happening. They are not kid cops, just bodyguards. I respected that — they let her have her college life as much as possible.

  206. 206.

    Corner Stone

    I realize we are talking about two separate species, D’s and R’s, but I like to consider the absolute crazeballs circus atmosphere that would have occurred if HRC had done what R’s and the media demand she do when it came out about Bill and Monica. What would they have done if she actually had moved out of the WH?
    And then I think now about what would have happened if Michelle had decided to stay in Chicago and raise her young girls in the school they were used to?

  208. 208.

    Baud

    @D58826: It made more sense before (1) the number of people represented by two senators was less disparate than it is today (compare CA with WY) and (2) the current partisan divide between high population and low population states. Now the filibuster disproportionately hurts Dems.

    That said, we’ll have to take our lumps when it’s finally gone.

  209. 209.

    Corner Stone

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    And I thought I had it bad with Sister Kathleen who only beat me 2 or 3 times a week whether I needed it or not.

    Let’s be clear – you needed it.

  211. 211.

    amk

    @Another Scott: After yesterday’s bomb that blew up in their collective faces, all those doomsday scenarios are moot points given the lack of political will from the thugs and the small political capital so easily squandered by twitler. herr docktor was seen sipping cocktails yesterday while his erstwhile comrades were duking it out with each other.

  212. 212.

    Immanentize

    @OzarkHillbilly: OT — It looks like I will be in St. Louis for the WORLD FTC ROBOT CHAMPIONSHIP at the end of April. When plans firm up, I will try and get some evening with you and other STL folks?

  213. 213.

    D58826

    @Another Scott: And you throw enough gravel and people stop signing up or insurance companies drop out or there are the usual horror stories. Then the GOP has their talking point about how Obamacare is failing and its best to put it out of its misery and start again. Over the next 4 years it is very much if you can’t raise the bridge then lower the river approach. It may or may not work but they certainly will try.

    And as Trump fills the courts with reactionaries then the judicial approach will become even more problematic than it is now.

  214. 214.

    D58826

    @Immanentize: Agree. Just hate that the Trump spawn are getting free body guard services while traveling the world lining the family pocket. The Bush twins, Obama girls and Chelsea were just kids growing up in the WH.

    Plus the hypocrisy of complaining about Obama’s golfing and vacations

  217. 217.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Elizabelle: Yeah, dead on impact.

    @schrodingers_cat: To be clear, I went to a different, much better, Catholic school, with a different set of horrors for some. It left it’s mark on me.

    @Corner Stone: Well……. I guess they were for all the times I thought I got away with it?

  218. 218.

    D58826

    @Immanentize: yep. But at the end of the day I realize they have to have the protection. Nothing Daesh would love more than have Donald Jr in their clutches.

    In fact I’m a bit surprised that some fool hasn’t tried to ram a truck or shoot up the lobby of one of the Trump properties overseas

  220. 220.

    Baud

    @amk: Not necessarily. A Freedom Caucus member might say the same thing, since the GOP hasn’t destroyed the federal welfare state yet.

  221. 221.

    Immanentize

    @D58826: On the question of an attack, I was drafting an op ed regarding how target-rich the world is for those who oppose Trump. It used to be that an expression of anger against the US was best demonstrated by an attack on our embassies. Those are visible, certainly, but well fortified and protected. Now, one need not take such a perilous course.

  222. 222.

    D58826

    On a differnt topic AP is reporting –

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. government investigation of President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, crossed the Atlantic earlier this year to the Mediterranean island nation of Cyprus, once known as a haven for money laundering by Russian billionaires.

    Treasury agents in recent months obtained information connected to Manafort’s transactions from Cypriot authorities, according to a person familiar with the matter who was not authorized to speak publicly. The request was part of a federal anti-corruption probe into Manafort’s work in Eastern Europe. The Cyprus attorney general, one of the country’s top law enforcement officers, was also aware of the American request.

    The article doesn’t say but isn’t that the same bank the Trumps Sec. of Commerce Ross has an interest in?

    https://apnews.com/d43ef4166da6400ab45140978854bbbb

  225. 225.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @D58826:

    Nothing Daesh would love more than have Donald Jr in their clutches.

    I can’t say that such an event would even register on my personal “give a fuck” meter.

  227. 227.

    Another Scott

    @OzarkHillbilly: Yeahbut, look at the Muslim Ban. It’s still not resolved, and in the meantime ICE is running amok.

    And the language of the ACA is pretty unequivocal that the Secretary has lots and lots of power. I think a stay of things in that list would be a pretty heavy lift. And there’s the perpetual “standing” hurdle.

    Lawyers can argue about anything – that’s what they’re trained to do after all. It doesn’t mean that fighting Price is going to be easy.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  230. 230.

    Baud

    @amk: He’s the one who said this

    GOP’s Tom Rooney: ‘Obamacare is the law of the land forever now…We blew it’ | Post On Politics

  232. 232.

    Baud

    @Another Scott: To destroy the ACA administratively will often mean hurting insurance companies, so it won’t be quite as easy as they would hope or we would fear.

  235. 235.

    Corner Stone

    @D58826:

    Nothing Daesh would love more than have Donald Jr in their clutches.

    I hate that I have allowed Trump to turn me into the kind of person who contemplated that thought for a few minutes.

  239. 239.

    Another Scott

    @D58826: I agree these are risks, but I don’t agree it is hopeless. As amk points out, Trump and Ryan and their minions lost bigly. They’re damaged. And it’s pretty obvious what they will try to do going forward, so people have been thinking about ways to counter their actions.

    Price is going to try to do horrible things, but if Congressmen and women continue getting angry calls and letters and crowds at town-halls, then Price is going to be reined in (to some extent). Trump’s previous allies see that he doesn’t know how to win in implementing policies, and he’s going to continue to get weaker because things are only going to get more difficult (the budget, the debt ceiling, the wall fiasco, the Muslim Ban fiasco, the electronics ban, Russia, NATO, NK, etc., etc.)

    James Watt tried to do horrible things under Reagan and had to back down on lots of them.

    Politics still works, if we stay engaged. But we have to keep fighting them.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  242. 242.

    Immanentize

    @Another Scott: The best way to fight Price is to indict him. The more indictments, recusals and resignations, the harder it will be to get things done on the ground. ICE and CBP are different in that they are police agents that have super powers because of the ralms in which they act (undocumented aliens and the border, which is nearly a constitutional-free zone). I am more optimistic about stopping Price policies as there are so many people in the country ready to fight them (people, politicians, and health industry).

  243. 243.

    D58826

    Seems that Ayn Rand doesn’t work real well in the private sector either. An long article about Sears

    Plagued by the realities threatening many retail stores, Sears also faces a unique problem: Lampert. Many of its troubles can be traced to an organizational model the chairman implemented five years ago, an idea he has said will save the company. Lampert runs Sears like a hedge fund portfolio, with dozens of autonomous businesses competing for his attention and money. An outspoken advocate of free-market economics and fan of the novelist Ayn Rand, he created the model because he expected the invisible hand of the market to drive better results. If the company’s leaders were told to act selfishly, he argued, they would run their divisions in a rational manner, boosting overall performance.

    Unfortunately it’s the rest of us that pays the price for these failures.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-07-11/at-sears-eddie-lamperts-warring-divisions-model-adds-to-the-troubles#pq=46C67y

  248. 248.

    Immanentize

    @liberal: They will — now this is where messaging will count. Gorsuch MUST be tied to all the other Trump scandals. My question is: What quid pro quo did Trump receive for making Gorsuch first on his list? I mean cash.

  250. 250.

    Baud

    @D58826:

    An outspoken advocate of free-market economics and fan of the novelist Ayn Rand, he created the model because he expected the invisible hand of the market to drive better results. If the company’s leaders were told to act selfishly, he argued, they would run their divisions in a rational manner, boosting overall performance.

    Ok, that’s even dumber than the average libertarian. A single company is not a market, so there is no invisible hand.

  251. 251.

    Immanentize

    @amk: I’m not sure about that — I know he is being investigated for his drug company insider trading and quid pro quo bribery.

  253. 253.

    D58826

    @Another Scott:

    Politics still works, if we stay engaged. But we have to keep fighting them

    I agree. Just seems that the GOP has an easier time keeping it’s troops engaged. Fear of the ‘other’ is a lot easier to sell than ‘all in this together’ esp. when the ‘all’ includes the OTHER.
    Hopefully that will be another gift from all of this – that the GOP is more scary than the ‘OTHER’.

  254. 254.

    liberal

    Isn’t Price on board with gutting the NIH? I can’t see Pharma putting up with that shit.

  259. 259.

    D58826

    @amk: I think that investigation involves pulling ads for Obamacare during the enrollment period.

    @Immanentize: I think that is what the NY federal attorney was looking into when he was fired.

    Either way the man is as crooked as Lombardi Street in San Fran.

  261. 261.

    Immanentize

    @liberal: Agree, but that is a losing argument except among people like us. “Waah! We didn’t get what we wanted!” And we have been mocking the Republicans mercilessly for saying that same thing about yesterday’s fail. But, “Judge Gorsuch cannot be confirmed until the many clouds hanging over his nomination are resolved” works. The Repubs are already “upperdownvote”-ing the issue. Which is itself a losing argument — especially in light of Garland — and means we are winning.

  262. 262.

    Corner Stone

    @liberal:

    let’s see if they can get 41 to sign off on a filibuster of Gorsuch.

    There’s no way Schumer would have come out so strongly about 60 votes if he hadn’t already secured them.

  264. 264.

    liberal

    @schrodingers_cat: uh, no. The fraction of economists who are extreme lefties is negligible. Of course, to you “extreme left” is anything to the left of whatever ignorant neoliberal koolaide you guzzled down.

  266. 266.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Immanentize: They will — now this is where messaging will count. Gorsuch MUST be tied to all the other Trump scandals.

    politically, I generally prefer Durbin to Schumer, but I do think Schumer as a more media savvy camera hog is more effective at this kind of messaging, and he’s been doing it for a while now

    as to what the the Dems– the Party, the Electeds– do or don’t do, can or can’t do, it’s less about them than if all those previously a-politcal friends we all seem to have, people who have never been to a march, never thought about calling their MoC, if those people stay engaged, we can lessen the damage trump can do. That’s what victory looks like for the next twenty months.

  270. 270.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Another Scott:

    And there’s the perpetual “standing” hurdle.

    I am only saying that a stay can stop Price from doing something that actually breaks the law. As to standing, seems to me that any hospital will have it and I can not believe that they want the system to “just collapse of it’s own weight” as that would leave them holding the bag.

    None of this is to say Price can’t hurt the ACA, just saying that I think all the doom saying is a little overblown. And remember THEY are in power, THEY will get the blame, because that’s how politics works.

    Doug Mataconis over at OTB agrees with me:

    Trump seems to be under the assumption that Democrats would get the blame for this because the original bill was one of their own creation that had essentially no Republican input and certainly no Republican support and because Democrats did nothing to help Republicans get the American Health Care Act passed. This is utterly absurd. The party that is most likely to be blamed for the failures of the system is going to be the party that’s in power, and right now that’s the Republican Party and Donald Trump is sitting at the top of it. If he believes that a major health care crisis a year or two down the line is going to benefit him then he is truly more delusional than I ever believed him to be. If and when the time comes, the people will blame Republicans and they will blame President Trump, and it’s him they will be looking to for a solution to the crisis. At that point, it’s not Trump who will be holding the winning hand, it’s Democrats whose support he would need to get a reform package through Congress.

  271. 271.

    Brachiator

    The Dems need to fight back hard, especially on social media (and I guess that we can help as well by blasting the FaceBook idiot crowd). Big question that will be partially answered by who shows up on the pundit shows. Will the Democrats continue to use lame surrogates? Probably. Even Saint Elizabeth Warren is kinda bland, except when she’s blasting Trump.

    The Democrats need to go after moderate Republicans by targeting voters in the states of those Republican congressmen who did not support the Trumpcare bill because it would hurt their constituents. Even if this is only 2 congress critters. The Tea Party fools are a lost cause.

    Keeping it simple. Trump Lied. He said that he would bring better healthcare reform. All he did was push Ryan’s bill, which would reduce benefits. He has no clue about policy. He only wants to look like a tough deal maker and he cannot even do that right.

    Trump has no independent plans about tax reform. All he will do is back a Republican draft plan that has been around for months. This plan is designed to hurt the middle class by giving deep tax cuts to the wealthy only and laying the foundation to dismantle Social Security.

    It would, by the way, eliminate almost all of the taxes Trump paid in 2005. We can use that tax return that Trump planted to hurt him. To get a little more wonky,

    The documents show Trump and his wife Melania paying $5.3 million in regular federal income tax—a rate of less than 4%. However, the Trumps paid an additional $31 million in the so-called ‘alternative minimum tax,’ or AMT

    The AMT was designed to make sure that the wealthy paid something. The Republicans want to lower the regular tax on the wealthy and eliminate the AMT entirely.

    Does anyone think that the average taxpayer is going to be taxed at less than 4 percent under any Republican plan?

    The only people left to pay taxes are the middle class. And the main thing they will get from this is having to pay for increased military spending, but no jobs.

    Trump is talking tough about tax reform. Where is that promised massive infrastructure spending to provide jobs right now?

  273. 273.

    liberal

    @Immanentize: the electorate doesn’t give a rats ass about this kind of thing, so there’s no downside. Except for the Republicans nuking the filibuster, which is actually an upside.

  274. 274.

    liberal

    @sheila in nc: no, on economic matters at least they’re pretty conservative. AFAICT the vast majority think that capital gains need to be taxed at a lower rate to encourage investment, which is silly idiotic shit.

  277. 277.

    WereBear

    @liberal: Not only that, competition is about your competitors. It is counterproductive to do it internally.

    I know the theory; that it will make the different pieces all strive to do their best. But most people are numbnuts who will tear down their competition to make themselves, standing still, look better.

    I had a manager with that whole Nazi outlook, setting us against each other. Place went out of business and I got unemployment out of it.

    Like I said. Numbnuts.

  279. 279.

    D58826

    I know its the NY times but even a stopped clock and all of that

    One Nation, Under Fox: 18 Hours
    With a Network That Shapes America
    Fox News is a singular force, crafting a searing narrative about what’s
    happening in the world for millions of viewers, including President Trump.

    It does give the GOP a leg up on reaching the non-political junkie voter. I hate the term ‘low information voter’. It makes them sound stupid. Mostly they are just people who have other interests in life besides the latest beltway misbehavior.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/25/business/media/fox-news.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

  280. 280.

    D58826

    @Mike J: sigh should have seen that, esp. since made my self dizzy going down it a couple of times. Was kind of exciting as my sister was doing the driving as she learned how to use a stick shift

  282. 282.

    Brachiator

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Trump seems to be under the assumption that Democrats would get the blame for this because the original bill was one of their own creation that had essentially no Republican input and certainly no Republican support and because Democrats did nothing to help Republicans get the American Health Care Act passed. This is utterly absurd. The party that is most likely to be blamed for the failures of the system is going to be the party that’s in power, and right now that’s the Republican Party and Donald Trump is sitting at the top of it.

    Let’s step back a bit from political wonkery land. Who gets blamed is dumb.

    Trump’s biggest mistake was not repealing Obamacare. Anything that keeps it in place is a win for the people and a win for the Democrats.

    Sane Republican governors and legislators in states where people don’t know that they have Obamacare will need to make sure that it is supported and sustained.

    The Republicans are letting themselves be peeled away. Trump, Ryan, libertarian goof balls and the Tea Party believe that you can let Obamacare collapse with no political consequences. But I don’t think that is the political reality.

  283. 283.

    sheila in nc

    @liberal: No argument from me about the silliness of lowering capital gains taxes. I probably live in a bubble because most of the economists I read (besides Paul K, bless him) are health economists. See for example the Incidental Economist blog — sorry I can’t figure out how to post links.

  285. 285.

    Kathleen

    @ArchTeryx: Every time you and others here express joy about keeping health insurance Paul Ryan pulls a wing off of an angel. Not trying to put you on a guilt trip or anything…

  286. 286.

    David Spikes

    @WereBear: No tax reform without tax returns-say it, and keep saying it.
    Since Jarhed and Iwanker are back maybe they’ll be in charge of taxes.

  287. 287.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @WereBear: With a military background such as my own I can’t even conceive of internal to the organization completion…it’s totally NOT what you should be doing, you should be cooperating internally for the overall aims of the organization, you know, TEAMWORK.

  288. 288.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @D58826:

    I hate the term ‘low information voter’. It makes them sound stupid

    It doesn’t make them sound stupid, it makes them sound ignorant. Which is true. And we on the left have our share of LIVs too. In fact, everyday the GOP drives me more and more to it.

    “Dem or GOP?”

    All I need is the answer to that question

  289. 289.

    Baud

    @OzarkHillbilly: Ain’t that the truth? I have increasingly difficult caring about the details because they seem increasingly irrelevant to my electoral decisionmaking.

  291. 291.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @D58826: let’s call them less-engaged voters then. I get that people don’t want to get into the details of reimbursement rates and actuarial tables and whatnot– I don’t. But I don’t get how people don’t find shit like this interesting and don’t want to know more

    Devin Nunes Vanished the Night Before He Made Trump Surveillance Claims
    Hours before the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee announced his shocking claims about surveillance of the Trump transition team on Wednesday morning, he practically disappeared.
    Rep. Devin Nunes was traveling with a senior committee staffer in an Uber on Tuesday evening when he received a communication on his phone, three committee officials and a former national security official with ties to the committee told The Daily Beast. After the message, Nunes left the car abruptly, leaving his own staffer in the dark about his whereabouts.
    By the next morning, Nunes hastily announced a press conference. His own aides, up to the most senior level, did not know what their boss planned to say next. Nunes’ choice to keep senior staff out of the loop was highly unusual.

    to say nothing of the whole RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE ACTIVELY INTERFERED WITH OUR ELECTORAL PROCESS TO HELP DONALD FUCKING TRUMP!

  292. 292.

    Brachiator

    @liberal:

    Infrastructure plan is just a bunch of tax breaks, IIRC.

    Trump’s infrastructure plan is a con, a hustle. It is Trump bluster, a huuuge number, and a vague promise.

    “I, Donald Trump, promise to spend a trillion dollars on our infrastructure. I will bring jobs back.”

    Republicans oppose federal infrastructure spending. As I noted, the Republican outline for tax reform has been available for months. It’s budget implications does not allow for infrastructure spending.

    Also, the simple bottom line. Trump has put tax reform on the table as the next item. He could have pushed for infrastructure spending if he really thought it was important.

  293. 293.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Brachiator:

    Who gets blamed is dumb.

    Why do you think the majority GOP in the House couldn’t pass it? Because they knew they would get blamed. Every single Republican in America is running around with their heads on fire and their asses a ketchin’ trying to blame anybody but themselves.

    They don’t think it’s dumb and neither does every DEM who is right this very minute pointing at the GOP saying “See what you get with the GOP?”

  295. 295.

    japa21

    @OzarkHillbilly: Except, of course, the GOP had lots of input into the original ACA. There were several amendments to the bill that were authored by the GOP. Of course, after saying that these amendments would be necessary to get there vote, only one GOP rep voted for the bill originally, and then against it the second time around in the House.

  298. 298.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @japa21: Nancy Ann DeParle, one of Obama’s HCR wonks, is writing a book and I think she said (on the ObamaBros podcast) she’s going to name names. Not that we all couldn’t already– Snowe, Collins, maybe one or two others, I think Specter had already jumped the aisle by the time they got into the weeds. And that probably is too inside-baseball for most people to care.

  300. 300.

    different-church-lady

    @charluckles:

    a lot of folks supported Trump because they thought he was going to stick it to the fat cats. Anecdotedly, my Bircher neighbor sounds like Marx these days if you get him going about the wealthy and taxes.

    The raw incoherence of today’s electorate is jaw dropping.

  303. 303.

    Brachiator

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It doesn’t make them sound stupid, it makes them sound ignorant. Which is true. And we on the left have our share of LIVs too. In fact, everyday the GOP drives me more and more to it.

    I hate the term “low information voter” because it is meaningless.

    More and more voters of all ideological persuasions are willfully ignorant. They have their pet issues and hard agendas that they believe and push despite any facts, or even political expediency.

    And even for those who bask in warmth of their own political brilliance, don’t matter if your side don’t win.

  304. 304.

    D58826

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    But I don’t get how people don’t find shit like this interesting and don’t want to know more

    While I tend to agree but I quickly lose interest when the conversation turns to which fork to use or the merits of various vintages of wine. What every floats your boat I guess but politics does seem like a more important boat.

  308. 308.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Brachiator: For example, “pro-life” voters. SLUTS MUST BE PUNISHED! Fuck the damn babies, they’re on their on the instant they drop out of the womb.

  309. 309.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Brachiator:

    I hate the term “low information voter” because it is meaningless.

    Maybe to you, but words have meaning to me. I think I get what you are trying to say, and I certainly agree with you to some extent, but we switch rails at some point and I have to go now.

  310. 310.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @D58826: Some people just can’t accept a win. We had one this week. We are all aware that there will be fight after fight until Trump, Ryan and their ilk are gone. Nevertheless, this was a good week.

  311. 311.

    D58826

    @Brachiator: Thinking about it and this might not really be new. Back in the day there were republican newspapers that would not give the time of day to FDR and democratic papers that returned the favor on GOP politicians. Rev. Mike Hucklbee or Father Coughlin – not much difference. The big difference I think is the media was more local, and there were fewer broadcast outlets. Today on the intertubes you can build your own little cocoon around a shared interest it the various species of coral surrounding Pitcain island.

  312. 312.

    Brachiator

    @OzarkHillbilly: RE: Who gets blamed is dumb.

    Why do you think the majority GOP in the House couldn’t pass it? Because they knew they would get blamed. Every single Republican in America is running around with their heads on fire and their asses a ketchin’ trying to blame anybody but themselves.

    The GOP attempt at repeal and replace took place over a short period of time. It is easy to see what happened.

    Ryan and the majority of the Republicans did not care about blame. Ryan gave bold libertarian tinted interviews acknowledging that some people would suffer under their bill. The Republicans reveled in the idea that some American are unworthy because they are poor or don’t work hard enough.

    Bottom line. The bill failed because it became a battle between regular Republicans who wanted to fuck the people over, and Tea Party Republicans who wanted to fuck the people over harder and deeper.

    When the Republicans took the healthcare bill back for a re-write, they stripped it of more benefits.

    The GOP believes that gerrymandering and Koch Brothers money has made them politically immune. They believe that they are immune from any blame.

    It is still a question about how many moderate Republicans would have voted no. But we know where the Republican hardliners stand.

  313. 313.

    D58826

    @Omnes Omnibus: A very good week. My local food market was out of popcorn it was such a good week but after finishing off the bubbly there is the next hill to climb and the next battle to win. The D’s won big in 2006/2008 and I remember the articles about the democratic majority for a generation. The D’s drank the Kool aide the R’s invested in teabags. Let’s not make the same mistake twice

  315. 315.

    Brachiator

    @D58826:

    Thinking about it and this might not really be new. Back in the day there were republican newspapers that would not give the time of day to FDR and democratic papers that returned the favor on GOP politicians. Rev. Mike Hucklbee or Father Coughlin – not much difference.

    Yep, but this goes back to the earliest days of the nation, when Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton would write anonymous editorials that would be published in newspapers favoring or damning Federalists, etc.

    Today on the intertubes you can build your own little cocoon around a shared interest it the various species of coral surrounding Pitcain island.

    Exactamundo! Worse, the easy availability of actual facts has led to people deliberately creating and maintaining these “little cocoons.”

    I mentioned a couple of times that one of the things that drew me to Balloon Juice was disgust over the Terri Schiavo case. People would lie about one of the judge’s rulings, or testimony of Schiavo’s husband. The weird thing is that you could actually go to the court website and read the freaking ruling or testimony. Instead, people would perpetuate the lies that they heard on Sean Hannity or elsewhere, and soon websites would pop up devoted to perpetuating the lies and walling people off from the truth.

    Things have only accelerated since then. And now you have people living for Trumps Twitter messages and living off fake news as though it was manna from heaven.

  316. 316.

    D58826

    @Villago Delenda Est: Actually what with the march of technology they are no longer important once the stick turns blue. The pro-lifers are quite happy to cut pre-natal medical care and nutrient programs for the expectant mother. They are pro-zygote. Once it is a a fetus he/she is one their own.

  317. 317.

    Brachiator

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    For example, “pro-life” voters. SLUTS MUST BE PUNISHED! Fuck the damn babies, they’re on their on the instant they drop out of the womb.

    These people are the worst of the worst.

  320. 320.

    schrodingers_cat

    @liberal:You have reading comprehension issues I said 90% economists are right wing
    there is such a thing as Marxist economists they do exist, these days they call themselves heterodox economists. They represent no more than 1% to 2% of all tenured econ profs. So about 92% economists are ideological extremists.

  321. 321.

    Another Scott

    @amk: rofl. :-)

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.
    (Who can’t believe how easily they’re all walking over the cliff. Perhaps once the EU brings its $50B bill and all its conditions, maybe then the Brits will start rethinking Brexit…)

  322. 322.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Frank Wilhoit:

    There are three parties in Congress, none with a majority. The plurality party is the Democratic Party. Only slightly smaller is the regular Republican Party. Smallest, but larger than the difference between the other two, is the “House Freedom Caucus”, who can only be described as the Coercion Caucus, or the Unaccountability Caucus, or some other name that expresses their essential dishonesty and destructiveness. Right now they are still calling themselves “Republicans” in order to conceal the fact that the schism has even taken place (see above, re: dishonesty).

    actually, like four; the Religious Right, though right now they aren’t that evident beyond Pence because went it comes to screwing the poor the Religious Right, Libertarians and Conservative Nhilist all are on the same page.

  323. 323.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Baud: Which only goes to support Heinlein’s assertion that

    Telling the truth but not all of it

    is only the second-best way to lie, the best being

    Telling the truth, all of it, but in such a manner that the audience is convinced you’re lying

    Hey, it worked for a barely-coherent former boehmische Gefreite* when his prison rantings were published, dinnit? And he didn’t even have a butt-buddy with billions of bucks backing him…
    ——–
    * Screw Godwin. Better yet, unscrew Godwin,

  325. 325.

    No One You Know

    @Baud: What really astonished me is people believed trump had more in common with poor people than rich people. That he would help people, rather than interests. I think the rich stay rich because they focus on money. Money doesn’t inoculate you from being interested in getting more of it.

  326. 326.

    Ksmiami

    @D58826: that’s the problem w fighting GOP zombie hordes – they just keep coming even if you think you’ve slayed their weak ass ideology

  328. 328.

    artem1s

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Please oh please oh please let there be a new SNL tonight, an aged Trump (played by Baldwin) going for the coffeemaker for a cup, with somebody else doing the Baldwin “coffee is for closers” dialogue from “Glengarry Glen Ross”

    GENIUS! someone get should get you on a phone with Lorne Michaels stat!

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