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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Open Thread: Mike Pence (R-Gilead), Chieftain of the ‘Prayer Warriors’

Open Thread: Mike Pence (R-Gilead), Chieftain of the ‘Prayer Warriors’

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Today, per the NYTimes, “Pence and Ailing Senator Deliver Votes to Block Family Planning Money“:

Senate Republicans, aided by Vice President Mike Pence and an ailing Georgia colleague who hobbled into the Senate chamber on a walker, voted on Thursday to proceed with a measure to undo an Obama administration rule preventing states from blocking funding for family planning clinics that also provide abortions.

The vote was one of a string of showdowns to reverse Obama-era regulations, but this one unfolded with all the drama of numerous past conflicts over abortion funding — with Mr. Pence casting the deciding vote in his role as president of the Senate.

Taking money away from Planned Parenthood has been a longstanding goal of congressional Republicans, but each effort has been blocked by Democrats and President Barack Obama.

Even full control of Washington by Republicans has not made the process easy…

In case anyone was wondering about the ‘Mike Pence is suuuper weird devoutly religious, you guys!’ articles earlier this week — now you know. The GOP was signalling to its Talibangelical base: Pay no attention the foul-mouthed Commie-loving free-spender in the Oval Office; when push comes to shove, Our Man Mike will cast the deciding vote against slutty women, uppity browns, and every other unsettling social development since 1956.

From the Washington Post, “Karen Pence is the vice president’s ‘prayer warrior,’ gut check and shield“:

… Friends and aides… say she is the Pence family “prayer warrior,” a woman so inextricably bound to her husband that even then-candidate Trump understood her importance and consulted her in critical campaign moments…

The Pences were married in a Roman Catholic church in 1985 but later became evangelical Christians.

In 2002, Mike Pence told the Hill that he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won’t attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.

Supporters and critics alike cite her as a force behind her husband’s socially conservative stances, including his opposition to gay marriage and the religious freedom law he signed as governor of Indiana, which opponents worried would allow business owners to discriminate against gays and lesbians by citing religious concerns.

“You can’t get a dime between them,” said Ken Blackwell, senior fellow at the Family Research Council and a senior domestic policy adviser on the Trump transition team. “It is not him seeking her approval, but his doing a sort of gut check with what they have learned together and come up through together in terms of their shared Christianity.” …

… One Republican senator close to Mr. Pence said that his colleagues initially viewed him as an alternative-reality president who would prod Mr. Trump’s presidency toward normalcy — a notion that vanished during the administration’s frenetic first week. Democrats and Never-Trump Republicans still view him as a president-in-waiting, in hopes that Mr. Trump will somehow be brought down by scandal.

That the vice president has occupied a position one step outside Mr. Trump’s innermost circle of power seemed to reinforce the view, at least among Democrats, that he was holding back to position himself as a fallback option. “He really seems to be waiting around for something to happen, which my mother told me was a rude thing to do,” joked Jennifer Palmieri, Hillary Clinton’s former communications director.

At times, Mr. Pence can seem jarringly out of place, a clean-cut 1950s Republican cheerfully navigating the chaotic “Mad Max” landscape created by the disruptive duo of Mr. Trump and Mr. Bannon, trying to stay engaged while remaining discernibly aloof from the less-savory aspects of serving in the Trump White House.

That’s the challenge he’s faced since accepting the job of Mr. Trump’s straight-man running mate last summer. Many Pence advisers, including his wife, Karen, were wary of the offer.

“I come from a family of preachers,” said Representative Elijah E. Cummings, Democrat of Maryland, who served with Mr. Pence in the House and still communicates with him regularly. “He is an honorable man. He is a Christian man. But there’s going to come a time when the Trump storm is over, and you have spent all this time defending him and repeating the stuff Trump has said. What’s he going to do when his credibility is shot?”…

I’ve been told the phrase ‘whited sepulchur’ is mostly a Catholic thing, but I do believe Rep. Cummings just pulled the hypocrite card on Vee-Pence.

Reader Interactions

83Comments

  1. 1.

    Kropadope

    Is it normal for the VP to be tie-breaking this many votes? Especially with unified control of the government?

  2. 2.

    Mnemosyne

    The Pences were married in a Roman Catholic church in 1985 but later became evangelical Christians.

    Ah, I was wondering how Pence could be related (by marriage) to me when the relative he was related through was Catholic. Good riddance.

  3. 3.

    Mnemosyne

    Also note — the Pences exited the Roman Catholic Church because even under John Paul II it was too liberal for them.

  4. 4.

    Anne Laurie

    @Mnemosyne: You sure that’s something you wanna share with strangers? I mean, were I related to Mike Dence — however distantly — I’d do my best to destroy all evidence of the connection.

  5. 5.

    Mnemosyne

    @Anne Laurie:

    The uncle-by-marriage that I was related through is dead, and it’s pretty tenuous (he was my uncle’s first cousin).

    FWIW, I’m pretty sure that said uncle thought Mike was an asshole.

    ETA: If I was genetically related, I would keep it more on the DL, but “he’s a cousin of the guy my aunt married before I was born” is sufficiently distant to make it funny.

  6. 6.

    Splitting Image

    At times, Mr. Pence can seem jarringly out of place, a clean-cut 1950s Republican

    If that were true, he’d be pro-choice. And Episcopalian.

  9. 9.

    Sab

    @Anne Laurie: Hey, my family came from the same island on the Outer Hebrides in Scotland as Trump’s mother. Couple of thousand inhabitants. No way we aren’t related. Plus I have small hands and feet. EMBARASSING.

  10. 10.

    Suzanne

    I hate this story, because IDGAF about anyone else’s marriage. If he wants to be weird and never eat a sandwich in the presence of a non-his wife woman, I cannot muster much give-a-damn.

  12. 12.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Suzanne: specifically about this story I tend to agree, though in general Pence sets off my perv-dar, like Santorum.

  15. 15.

    Death Panel Truck

    I went to the nephrologist today for a follow-up. Lab tests normal, kidney function good, serum creatinine a solid 1.0, blood pressure 127/78, vasculitis in check. Good to go. My FSGS has been in remission 12 years. If I still drank, I’d get drunk right now.

  16. 16.

    Sab

    I do love the way Balloonjuice degenerates regenerates in the middle of the night. Weird place great people.

  17. 17.

    Chet Murthy

    @Suzanne:

    Alexandra Petri: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/03/30/mike-pence-and-the-temptresses/?utm_term=.f2c7d1a3c084

    Unfortunately, instead of saying, “Anyone with this condition is not fit to be put in a position of power,” they decided it would be easier to just keep women out of the room. And I have heard this kind of logic before. Don’t let women in! …. Women are not people, so it does not matter if they are excluded from rooms. Women are distractions. Their mere presence is like a horrible miasma.
    
    This idea that what is negotiable is whether or not women belong in the room, not whether or not men can be expected to keep themselves from dropping to all fours and growling, is intensely frustrating. Trump exhibits a different version of the same problem, where women are something other than people and deserve to be treated as such. Women are temptations, not equals. If you’re in a room with them, they are for grabbing. The solution? Stay out of rooms with them. Or keep them out.

    And for anyone who says that this “Billy Graham rule” is an example of praiseworthy self-control: No, it’s not. This is someone who is living life with the assumption that he lacks the modicum of self-control involved in eating dinner with another human being and not committing adultery. This is not what “lead us not into temptation” means.

    I would humbly submit that if this is how you feel, the problem is you.

  19. 19.

    M. Bouffant

    @Suzanne: Some say it’s a bigger story:

    I’m sure Pence would say that he’s just being careful. But I wonder if he realizes the discriminatory consequences of his rule. Over his career, he has had many colleagues and employees. With the men, he can have complex relationships that traverse work and social contexts, build trust, and eventually help their careers. A woman who hoped Pence would be a mentor to her, on the other hand, wouldn’t be able to avail herself of those opportunities, since he can’t even have lunch with her.

    Any ambitious woman can tell you how this is repeated in workplaces all over the country every day: The men in the office go out for drinks, have meals together and play golf, and the women have to fight to be included in places where deals are made and careers are advanced.

  20. 20.

    Gretchen

    @Suzanne: If he were a self-employed consultant working from home, I wouldn’t care either. But since he’s involved in making policy for all of us, and he can’t trust himself to have women around without his wife keeping watch, we end up with a roomful of old white dudes deciding that maternity care isn’t an essential health benefit. And we may as well defund Planned Parenthood because none of us have ever needed it.

  21. 21.

    Ruckus

    @Gretchen:

    spend the rest of their lives looking down on everyone who wasn’t as perfect as they

    Understand that was said tongue firmly in cheek but that word perfect is in way over it’s head. Not even really sure he’s human. I need to see the rings counted to make sure he isn’t a replica of a 1850s model.

  23. 23.

    Calouste

    Not allowed to be alone with a woman not his wife? I think from that we have to assume that Pence is a secret Muslim.

  25. 25.

    Death Panel Truck

    @Keith P.: Yes, I am, and I try to remember to be thankful for it every day. Sorry to hear about the dialysis. How often do you have to do it?

  26. 26.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    @Gretchen: They’re not even Catholic. They started out Catholic, but for Indiana purposes, they converted to a more electable evangelical faith.

  27. 27.

    Chet Murthy

    @Calouste:

    I think from that we have to assume that Pence is a secret Muslim cheating-ass perv who can’t resist hitting on any woman within a 5-foot radius.

    FTFY.

  28. 28.

    Calouste

    @Sab: Same way Newt Gingrich did: the Catholic Church only cares about marriages in the Catholic Church, so if you are divorced but that marriage was not in the Church, it don’t count. So Mrs. Whitaker/Pence is on at least her third religion, considering her first marriage apparently wasn’t in the Catholic Church.

  30. 30.

    Calouste

    @Chet Murthy: Well, there’s that…, although Pence seems to me more a suppressed gay-curious straight(ish) guy. Or in other words, straight-leaning bi.

  31. 31.

    Keith P.

    @Death Panel Truck: 3 times a week, unless I’m in a bad mood (I don’t get along with a lot of medical personalities). It’s relatively easy on me…I rarely cramp, haven’t nearly blacked out in years, and am pretty spry on my way out. I have been in the hospital every year since, though (last year was real rough, as I had my house flood, gas shutoff the following week by a gas company error, which all led to my stress levels getting to the point where I starting going into heart failure (again)…felt like I was being suffocated for 3 days with all the fluid in my lungs. So I appreciate every gulp of icy-cold water and fresh air I get (although I wouldn’t mind a bong hit right about now!)

  32. 32.

    Mike J

    AP Eastern U.S.‏Verified account @APEastRegion
    Penn State board member says he’s “running out of sympathy” for Sandusky’s “so-called victims.”

  34. 34.

    Redshift

    voted on Thursday to proceed with a measure to undo an Obama administration rule preventing states from blocking funding for family planning clinics that also provide abortions.

    Whenever we have a Democratic Congress and Senate again, can we all remember to push them to repeal the fucking Congressional Review Act? It truly is an abomination.

  35. 35.

    Sab

    @Sab: My comment seems callous. I do wish and hope you well. I have had sobering health issues myself this year. Not much impact on me (I 0would be dead) but my husband would care.

  38. 38.

    sanjeevs

    That quote from Elijah Cummings that Pence is an honourable man is strange considering it was Cummings that wrote to Pence warning him about Flynn being an agent of Turkey

  39. 39.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Chet Murthy: And this is why I have no problem at all wishing horrible deaths on these men. They disgust me. They lower my entire sex into the gutter because they have no fucking self-control.

  40. 40.

    Death Panel Truck

    @Keith P.: Wow. That’s a wicked lot of things to deal with all at once. I can smoke a hit for you. I’ve got a plastic pouch of some Washington-grown Colombian Gold I can open up. I’m sure it’s a pale imitation of the gold of the seventies, but I got seven grams for $70, which is pretty cheap.

  43. 43.

    sanjeevs

    @Mike J: Yeah, ironic though. They’ve tried to blur all the shady stuff Pence is party to, but Cummings letter is undeniable evidence of Pence’s knowing collusion in this. And I’m sure Cummings knew when he wrote it that he was putting Pence’s head into the noose.

  44. 44.

    jl

    What’s the deal with not eating alone with another woman, except for his wife. Is there something about that in the Bible that I missed? Or does Pence have some sort of food-sex fetish? I think there was a scene about that in the old film ‘Tom Jones’.

    Or does it refer to eating in another sense? So, he’ll eat with another women in a group? Or with groups of women? Which would put another light on Pence’s proclivities (in the Rushbaugh sense).

    Anyway, point is that I don’t get it. Can anyone clue me in?

  45. 45.

    EBT

    @Suzanne: If Keith Ellison had said that, the right would be up in arms baying for his blood. (Rightly) pointing out someone holds stupid crazy religious beliefs is important to keeping the crazy religious out of power and in whatever vile shadows can hide them.

  46. 46.

    jl

    @Suzanne:

    ” I hate this story, because IDGAF about anyone else’s marriage. If he wants to be weird and never eat a sandwich in the presence of a non-his wife woman, I cannot muster much give-a-damn. ”

    I agree, actually. We already know Pence is weird. But I’m curious if that is some sort of Xtianist thing? Or maybe it is just some daffy idiosyncratic Pence weirdness thrown into the story at an attempt at some human interest.

    Edit: Until someone explains, I’ll just assume Pence loves to eat with groups of women not his wife, in some sense or other.

  47. 47.

    sukabi

    @jl: no, he won’t be alone with another woman, thinks it’s being “unfaithful” to his wife…it’s apparently a thing with some evangelicals…started by Billy Graham in the late 70’s or early 80’s.

  48. 48.

    Gretchen

    @jl: It means women can’t have important jobs in government because the men who have important jobs in government need to be in all-male environments because otherwise they might be tempted to misbehave. And since the misbehavior would be the women’t fault rather than their own, the women must be kept out.

  49. 49.

    opiejeanne

    Maggie Habermas has a lot to answer for herself. Her comments about HRC still make me grit my teeth and she’s the main reason the NYTimes will not get a nickel from me while she works there.

  50. 50.

    Keith P.

    @Death Panel Truck: I actually have pretty easy access to weed and so-so access to extracts. I’m in a decriminalized county now (Harris, TX)…you can actually get caught with a quarter pound(!) of weed, and they’ll just confiscate it and make you take a drug abuse class.
    I’m not really supposed to smoke it (it doesn’t really harm me, but transplant centers won’t allow it), though…of course, my employer would frown on it as well, but I’m not really sure how much longer that will be the case, given how rapidly the public approval is changing.

  53. 53.

    opiejeanne

    @Sab: I think if her first marriage didn’t take place in a Catholic church or her first spouse wasn’t a Catholic, then the church’s reaction is that it wasn’t a legit marriage, so being married in the church the next time is fine as long as both are Catholics.

  54. 54.

    Ian

    Please stop quoting M.H., she in particular and her institution have lost all credibility.

    From another part of the web in a different country

    The CIA’s position has been that the “enhanced interrogation” techniques it used under President George W Bush, did not amount to torture, because they were legally approved by the White House at the time.

    That was an era in which the NYT actually did real work. We all know it isn’t torture or illegal if the WH orders it.

  56. 56.

    jl

    @sukabi: @Gretchen: So, this is actually a dumb and harmful thing Xtianists believe, not an idiosyncratic Pence weirdness. I didn’t know that. It is important to point it out, then. Thanks.

  58. 58.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Chet Murthy:

    Whenever I think of people like Pence, I understand why, in the fable, the people of Jerusalem chose Barabbas….

  60. 60.

    opiejeanne

    @jl: I think this behavior is limited to a very narrow slice of Evangelicals, let alone other Christians. I’ve never heard of it before now, wasn’t even aware of Billy Graham saying or doing something like this.

  62. 62.

    M. Bouffant

    Matt Walsh ‏Verified account @MattWalshBlog Mar 29
    Seriously what’s the appropriate reason for a married person to go out for a meal alone with a member of the other sex (outside of family)?

    Erick Erickson ‏Verified account @EWErickson
    Replying to @MattWalshBlog
    planning your spouse’s surprise party or funeral and that is it.

  63. 63.

    bystander

    Does Pence’s prohibition against being alone with women who are provocatively putting food in their mouths and sensually chewing include women who are fully burkaed? Because, I mean, you really can’t see all that erotic orifice movement when it’s behind a black veil.

  65. 65.

    Sam

    Pence is just a very uncertain, not too bright person masquerading as a politician. Someone like that needs orders to operate, sounds like his wife provides the instructions. How can we elect such weird people to run the government?

  66. 66.

    NotMax

    Those drapes John Ashcroft used to cover the statues at DOJ still belong to the federal government. Pence could just decree they be throw them over any women in the cafeteria while he’s eating.

  67. 67.

    Ian

    @M. Bouffant:

    Seriously what’s the appropriate reason for a married person to go out for a meal alone with a member of the other sex (outside of family)?

    Erick Erickson ‏Verified account @EWErickson
    Replying to @MattWalshBlog
    planning your spouse’s surprise party or funeral

    When is it appropriate for a married person to be planning their spouses funeral???

  68. 68.

    NotMax

    Really, all one has to do is look at his chosen stance when he’s off the the side or in the background with his practiced smirk plastered on.

    Arms held stiffly well away from his sides, to avoid even the slight chance that the hands might end up in proximity of the groinal area.

  71. 71.

    Central Planning

    @M. Bouffant: I regularly have dinner with a female co-worker when traveling for business. No desire for funny business, and I’m sure she has the same sentiment (although once when in Japan a drunk local said I looked like Brad Pitt)

  72. 72.

    nominus

    @Suzanne: at first I thought the same thing, but then I remembered that judging other people’s marriages has been his political hobby for the past several years, so superfuck that guy and his weirdo regressive bullshit.

  73. 73.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @bystander:

    I’m guessing that if you ask Mrs Pence, Mike has a hard time figuring out where the clitoris is, and they never, ever engage in dirty talk while doing the nasty.

    While Trump undoubtedly does talk the talk during sex, I see him and Pence sharing a couple of traits – neither one gives a shit about a sexual partner’ pleasure, and each of them are two pump chumps….

  75. 75.

    Grung_e_Gene

    Think of it a different way. Pence meets alone with men all the time. It’s very Spartan of him to view women (mother) for procreation while men are for recreation.

  77. 77.

    BC in Illinois

    @Ian:
    And those torture memos were written when one Mr. Neil Gorsuch was in the Justice Department, discussing whether the Congress could legally tell the President not to torture. Yes, he was part of that discussion.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/21/us/politics/neil-gorsuch-torture-bush-signing-statement.html
    As the Charlie Savage / NYT article concludes:

    Senator Patrick J. Leahy, a Democrat, asked if a president could authorize torture that violates laws passed by Congress. Judge Gorsuch replied, “No man is above the law.”
    . . . . . . .
    Does saying the president is not “above the law” really answer the question?

    No. Advocates of strong presidential powers, like Mr. Bush’s legal team, did not argue he was “above the law.” They put forward a different understanding of what “the law” meant. In their interpretation, the president could lawfully override statutes in which he decided Congress had impermissibly encroached upon wartime authorities that the Constitution exclusively assigned to him.

  78. 78.

    Woodrowfan

    I’m eating lunch with a colleague today. oh no, she’s a woman! and married!!! GASP!!!!!!

  79. 79.

    evodevo

    @Gretchen: Yes. This. And it’s not just crazy Xtians. It’s Orthodox Jews and conservative Muslims. All three Abrahamic religions have an anti-woman fetish that dates back 3000 years … (even though Xtianity and Islam are only ~2000 years old). And it all derives from ancient tribal prejudices/taboos that they can’t even remember now – but are SURE, SURE that were handed down by their god, and therefore irrevocable…

  80. 80.

    Tenar Arha

    @Suzanne: Others have said it better however Dense has no one but himself to blame (softball profiles don’t come from thin air), plus –

    1) This means no women in the room making decisions (which explains Indiana a lot) and yet he’s the VP of a President who’s the other side of the coin of patriarchy
    2) I will judge him because he’s made a career out of judging other people’s marriages & sexualities

    These stories are the GOP gearing up to make Dense seem less dangerous to the nation, less creepy in his family than Dolt45, but all this shows is that he’s just as bad or worse because he’s an ideolog.

  82. 82.

    Ohio Mom

    @Sab: There is a loophole for Catholics who are divorced that allows them to basically erase the marriage from their personal history.

    I know this because my husband’s SIL is a pretty serious Catholic and had been married for a relatively short time in her twenties. After the divorce, she underwent an annulment process — apparently it involved a lot of self-reflective essay writing. It was a unilateral annulment, her ex was not part of the process. I don’t know if he was Catholic or not.

    Then she was single for a couple of decades, after which she married my Jewish BIL.

  83. 83.

    Gretchen

    Trump and Pence are 2 sides of the same coin. Both see women primarily as “something I might want to have sex with.” Trump enjoys and indulges the feeling, while Pence is afraid of it and works to wall himself off from temptation. But neither see women as people whose talents and opinions can make an important contribution.

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