First butterfly this spring in my awesome plum tree
Hello! Sorry we were a bit short on threads in March. My work load almost doubled, so I had some frantic rearranging to do in order to accommodate it. I think we’ll be back on track for twice a month now as long as there is interest.
I am stockpiling some stories from our published writer’s on their experiences to share the next few posts. Thanks to everyone who has emailed me. I’ll give you a heads up when I’m planning on posting your wonderful experiences. Going forward, what I would love is any emails with topic suggestions and/or your stories.
Today I’m sharing John F. Wirenius story. He’s successfully published his book, Phineas at Bay (found here):
So I self-published a novel in 2014. it’s called Phineas at Bay through CreateSpace. It’s a sequel to Anthony Trollope’s six Palliser novels, set in England in the late 19th Century.
On the whole, I found it to be a very satisfying experience. I had a good friend, with a Masters in English, who was willing to edit the book, and had another friend design the cover. (My first friend, who appointed herself my “Domineditrix” was kind enough not to change, if I would do the same for her novel; my second charged me a reasonable but not nugatory fee.) So I went to CreateSpace for internal formatting and layout and production. I also used their book description promotional services to come up with the jacket description and author bio.
The paperback book came out as an elegant, handsome volume that was what I hoped it would be, both inside and outside. Good quality paper, the bottle green, pocked leather of the cover design read crisply, and the print inside was stylish and appropriately retro for my 1890’s political drama. My one mistake is that I burned a lot of money on edits after the initial proofs. (With CreateSpace, your first round of edits is free, later edits rack up fast.) I mean a lot of money. That’s not really on Create Space; I decided to switch from American to UK spelling after an English reader sent a late analysis, mostly positive, but slating the use of American spelling. That blew nearly $1,000. In retrospect, I had no need to do that, and could have saved that money.
The book was well received though Amazon reviews have been slow in piling up (6 more, and I turn up as a suggestion to other people’s books. Still, the Trollope Society (USA) invited me to speak at their annual dinner, in Trollope’s bicentennial year, and I was featured in its journal as well as several e-zines and blogs.
Profitable?
Well, no. Not financially, that is. The thou I blew on orthography took a big chunk, and most of my sales have been on the Kindle, with concomitantly lower royalties as the price is lower. Still, I didn’t have to telescope a pastiche of a Victorian novel, requiring the scope of one, into the tight confines most American publishers would have required (Phineas at Bay is in fact more than double the size of what most publishers will take for a historical novel from a first time novelist.) I got to write the book I wanted to read, and see it in print in a way that delighted me. And it’s in the black now, albeit lightly so. If I had had a better plan to advertise or promote it, I think I’d be more profitable—but I have a day job.
So, not a rattling success, but a labor of love completed to my satisfaction, at least.
And, yes, I’m working on another.
I have several entries from folks on self-publishing, one on going through traditional publishing and one on self-promotion with websites and blog. I would love a few more from people who have gone through traditional or small publishing houses to front page along with your book. Email me!
So let’s get this started. Besides writing, what are you reading these days? What do you read when you need inspiration?
What kind of writing have you gotten done since we last got together?
Chat away!
TaMara (HFG)
Hi, I’ll be in and out. Play nice!
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Good morning/afternoon, folks. I’m glad we’ve reconvened.
Just read Time Travel by James Gleick, a science writer, in preparation for a project. Our own Tom Levenson wrote a review on the book. I thought some chapters were extremely edifying and engaging. I thought a few mid-book chapters were rather boggy.
Iowa Old Lady
That’s a nice looking cover on John’s book. The link to Trollope enthusiasts is something I hadn’t thought of. I assume copyright issues are nil since the book is so old.
I’ll just offer one thought about self- or small press-publishing. My two novels have been published by two different small presses. The first press distributed through Create Space. It closed its door in August and I took that edited book that already had a nice cover and self-published it through Create Space. It cost me nothing because the original publisher had already fronted most of the expenses.
The second book came out in October and this small press distributes through Ingram. For reasons I don’t know, Amazon delays restocking through Ingram. My current book was just restocked after being listed as “temporarily out of stock” for something like 6 weeks. Both my publisher and I tried to get Amazon to move, but nothing seemed to work.
So if you’re self publishing, consider using Create Space for Amazon, even if you use Ingram or one of the other services for everything else. This was a royal pain and affected my sales. My poor publisher is probably losing money on me.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
I’ve not read any Trollope. He wasn’t mentioned in any undergrad or grad courses I took in the 80s. However, the reputations of writers wax and wane and are perhaps affected by regional interests, too.
The cover above is attractive; my eyes would pause on it, but having read no Trollope, I’d probably not buy it. Your sales are surely impacted by having a niche market. Best of luck!
Mnemosyne
I think everyone has heard about the least pleasant aspect of the writers conference I went to (having to be Heimliched), but overall, it was a really great conference. It’s called California Dreamin’ and it’s put on biannually by the four Southern California chapters of RWA (Romance Writers of America). It’s only about 300 people, so it’s not overwhelming, but they scheduled some really great sessions. We had two bestselling historical romance authors do sessions (Tessa Dare, who’s local, and Sarah Maclean, who also did the closing keynote on the last day).
I got to have my pages critiqued by an editor from Avon who I swear to you voluntarily brought up Hamilton (though, sadly, in the context of what I had done wrong with my story) and I have an agent connection to send my first 50 pages once my first draft is complete.
I also discovered a book that is helping me fix what the Avon editor criticized in my pages,and now I’m wondering where this book has been all my life. It’s called The Complete Guide to Heroes and Heroines and it has 16 archetypes along with a guide on how each of the archetypes interact. Perfect for genre fiction! I ordered the hard copy from my phone and was able to get the Kindle Matchbook for $2.99 so I could start using it right away.
If you write anything that could even tangentially be called romance, women’s fiction, or YA with female heroines, I would urge you to look into joining your local chapter of RWA. It’s a very supportive, friendly environment that usually has at least 50 percent published authors as members, so you can get actual career advice about what to do after you publish in addition to getting advice about how to write.
PaulW
This is, from personal experience, the best reason to self-publish. Not even control of owning your own work tops the idea that, yes, you finished a story you needed to tell.
<—-gets back to fighting his crippling Writers Block to finish a story for Florida Writers Association's annual anthology.
jacy
If you’re self-publishing, you can do POD paperbacks both through Createspace and Ingram — You just need two ISBNs. Createspace will provide an ISBN, although many people like to own their own ISBNs, which you can buy through Bowker. (I think right now it’s $100 for 10 ISBNs, but don’t quote me on that.)
Beyond buying an ISBN and paying for cover design and formatting (if you don’t do it yourself), the cost for paperback publishing is almost NIL. (You have to order a proof, but that’s just the cost of the book.) There’s absolutely no barrier anymore to publishing paperback books yourself. And you can learn to format books yourself, although the cost for formatting is also much lower than you might think. I recommend two very good formatting companies, and you can get a paperback specialty formatted with chapter headers and glyphs and the whole shebang for under $100.
I’m also seeing a huge explosion in self-pubbed audiobooks, which is another process. But the successful independent authors I’m seeing right now are all doing ebooks, paperbacks, and audiobooks together.
JOHN MANCHESTER
I’m a longtime lurker here. On my second literary agent, still holding out for traditional publishing after thirteen years.
I’ve completed three books in a psychological suspense series. Book one went out with agent one four years ago and with agent two last year, after an extensive rewrite. A total of thirty rejections, the majority without comment.
Book three in the series went to publishers five months ago. Now most rejections say something complimentary about my writing, the story or characters before passing. Ten so far. But as they pass my agent submits to new editors. So it’s still out with twenty….
My agent “loves” this book and has been in the business for 34 years. So someone should bite. As I get closer the stress gets worse. This process is not for the faint hearted.
More on how the sausage is made at my blog if you follow the link on the website.
Iowa Old Lady
Let’s see. What am I reading? I recently finished two nonfic books, which is not what I usually read. They were 1491, an account of what the Americas were like before Columbus, and THE THINGS THEY CARRIED, which probably everyone else has already read. Both were great reads.
I’m having trouble finding new fiction to read, though that’s probably just my mood. I’m looking forward to the release of Cinda Chima’s newest YA fantasy on Tuesday.
WereBear
Yay! Self-publishing digitally also means you have a mid-list. It’s all profit now, is it not?
Once upon a time, publishers would have a midlist budget for their even mildly successful writers. Like So-and-so? Get more of their books!
But they have dropped that, so you have to be Stephen King or John Grisham to have anything but your latest out there. It was incredibly frustrating for genre writers, who depend on their fans reliably getting access to their previous work. Not to mention making a living.
PaulW
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, local and state-level writers’ associations are nice to be a part of. they offer mini-sessions, access to agents, helpful tools towards getting published, etc. Finding associations with a specific genre – mystery, romance, scifi, others – helps you circulate with others in the field for input and motivation.
A list of writers associations by genre:
Science Fiction (and Fantasy): Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America http://www.sfwa.org/
Western: Western Writers of America http://westernwriters.org/
Romance: Romance Writers of America https://www.rwa.org/
Mystery: Mystery Writers of Am… you know what? they’re all American. https://mysterywriters.org/
Horror: http://horror.org/
Biography/Memoirs: http://namw.org/
History: https://historicalwriters.org/
Poetry: http://www.poetrysociety.org/
West of the Rockies (been a while)
I clicked on John’s (Wirenius) name link above. It brings you to an attractive page. But it lists the Kindle edition as being available for free. Is that true? How do you make any money that way?!?
Mnemosyne
Also, too, the nice freelance editor who Heimliched me was Jen Graybeal. Not only does she know first aid, I really liked the way she talked about editing and how she likes to help writers make their manuscript the best it can be. She has no writing ambitions of her own, she really concentrates on editing.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: great advice! My local RWA is probably Denver or Colorado Springs, but I would totally do it.
Right now am reading, as I mentioned yesterday, “Libertarians on the Prairie”, and I am feeling torn between admiration for Rose Wilder Lane and a strong desire to slap her with a brick! But fascinating book, highly recommended for anyone with any interest in the Little House books or the intellectual roots of Libertarianism. I also just finished Ursula K. Leguin’s “Lavinia@, where she takes a minor character from Vergil’s “Aeneid” and fashions a whole story round her. Excellent – and makes me want to tackle the Aeneid again for the first time since high school Latin class! Finally, just starting Harper Lee’s “Go Set a Watchman” – will be fascinated to see what her original take on Scout and Atticus was like!
Iowa Old Lady
@Miss Bianca: I read “Lavinia” and liked it quite a lot.
WereBear
Also a reminder for everyone: Amazon has author pages and if you don’t have one, you should.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
Take a look on the RWA website — you might be surprised to find one closer to you. They seem to have a lot of small chapters rather than a few big ones, and CO is a popular place for romance writers to live.
Also, rumor has it that the 2018 RWA national conference will be in Denver, so that’s something else to keep an eye out for. It’s usually in mid-July and it moves between western and eastern locations in alternate years.
No One You Know
After some research, a lot of outlining, and a couple of false starts, I put aside what I thought was going to be the book I wanted to read.
My main expressions are the personal essay and poetry. I self-publish articles on a forum, and I have a small following there, but the scope is mostly other professional. Much of my creative work seems to emerge in the personal letter.
Took, and then dropped, a fiction writing class from Coursera. The instruction was excellent. The peer reviews were abysmal. (Perhaps a reflection on my work.) Very few people followed the directions laid out for reviews. And being graded by people not following directions really irked me.
I like the structure of writing classes, and I’ll be looking for some locally.
I read voraciously and started going through Neil Gaiman literary criticism. I’m not always real fond of seeing the mechanics behind works I like; I’m not sure I want to notice the writer’s skill more than enjoy the product of that skill. It does seem like a good way to look at how I might structure longer works..if I have them in me.
Just bought a book diary to start recording what I read and what I get out of what I read. Still hesitating over “How to read a book like a professor”– a title that promises I’ll get more pleasure from understanding what the author’s doing.
An art teacher told me that wanting to do something new is a sign of development. It isn’t going to produce fruit right away. What I want for myself is to write things I would like to read, but can’t find, and somehow put a fictional gloss on it that lets me read on, and under, the surface.
I don’t care do much about publishing. I don’t know that I write that well, or if the things that interest me really have an audience. What I do need is the creative self-expression. There’s a point where subliminating that by reading others stops working.
Cheers!
WereBear
My nonfiction cat book is back on track. We are coming up to May, which is when my husband’s family cabin becomes available. This should let me finish it.
It has electricity, no Internet :)
West of the Rockies (been a while)
I’m also reading a mystery novel, a gift from my daughter. It’s a slow go so far. The Globe Theater burns down twice in two chapters. The pace is not exactly crisp either. Hoping it gets better.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Denver in ’18, Mnem, you know you want to do it!
debbie
@Iowa Old Lady:
Ingram is as angry at Amazon as bookstores are, so I’m sure this is some sort of reciprocal thing going on.
Miss Bianca
@WereBear: looking forward to your cat book!
Marina
I had trouble sleeping the other night and thought, I know, I’ll read a Sherlock Holmes story (last read when I was ten). I was struck by how fast-paced it was–a rip-tide level of narrative pull, lots of rat-a-tat-tat dialogue–with Holmes “…alternating from week to week between cocaine and ambition.” [and that’s on page 1]
Also this:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/01/stephen-king-on-donald-trump-fictional-voters-truth-about-us-election
Click on it. You’ll be glad you did.
Mnemosyne
In addition to my usual romance novel reading (it’s for professional reasons! ?), I’ve been reading George IV: The Rebel Who Would Be King, by Christopher Hibbert. It’s a more sympathetic take on George IV (better known as the Prince Regent) than you usually get. Turns out that his former son-in-law, Leopold, spent a lot of time running poor Prinny down after he died since they never really got along. (Leopold was married to Charlotte, Prinny’s only legitimate child, until she died in childbirth.)
Iowa Old Lady
@No One You Know:
Writing has ruined me as a reader. It’s made me notice flaws I’d have skipped over before. OTOH, I love the feeling that comes when I recognize a craft problem in my own work and figure out a way to solve it.
The research on teaching writing suggests that when people try something new, they get worse for a while before they get better. As long as they stick to what they can already do, they’re fine, but we all have only so much attention to spread around and if you strain it, sometimes you lose control even of what you already know. You see that at all levels. I used to edit a scholarly journal whose contributors were mostly English professors and if they were wrestling with a difficult idea, sometimes they couldn’t even make their subjects and verbs agree.
debbie
Having binge watched all six seasons of Game of Thrones, I’ve started reading The Plantagenets by David Jones. Before that, I read Krazy, the biography of the cartoonist George Herriman, creator of Krazy Kat. I’d planned on going through the 13 collections of Krazy Kat strips, but I don’t think my eyes are up to the task. The last good fiction I read was Ann Patchett’s Commonwealth.
Iowa Old Lady
@PaulW: Also for anything from picture books through young adult, don’t forget the Society for Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Marina:
Honestly, I did not enjoy the link. I hate Trump voters enough as it is. Fictional or not, King’s interview subjects ran their mouths without enough pushback for my taste. YMMV. Thanks for the link, but now I want to punch Trump really hard.
Paula
I think John Wirenius’ experience captures a lot about the pluses/minuses of Self-publishing — thanks for sharing his story!
Ruckus
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
I think that was King’s point. He said the people weren’t stupid, venal or evil (remember he made them up) and then goes on to interview them and we come to find out, all of them have at least one of the traits he said they didn’t, at least to some degree. A great writers trick, the set up, the delivery, then the twist.
J R in WV
@WereBear:
Why would you need electricity if it didn’t support an internet connection?
;-)
I guess to charge the laptop? and have lights? but you get my point.
Paula
I have just started my revision process for my second novel, a sequel to my first. I’m a pantser, so one of the things I do (or, at least, did for these two books) is use any old name for characters and then figure out their final name after completing the first draft. For me, worrying about names slows me down. So for the next few days my writing time will be spent looking up names, playing around with combinations, thinking about ethnicity and meanings and stuff like that.
How do you guys come up with character names?
La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes)
@West of the Rockies (been a while): It’s free on Kindle if you have Kindle unlimited. John says he gets paid something by Kindle on those purchases. He’s at the grocery store right now, but I told him to get home ASAP and join in the chat!
schrodingers_cat
I haven’t written much or read much except for commenting on Balloon Juice and reading Balloon Juice posts. There are a lot of thoughts and writing ideas brewing in my head but I haven’t put any of it down on paper or the computer yet. This election has made me question a lot about my own life and choices. I am still processing it.
Ruckus
@schrodingers_cat:
I think there are a lot of us in this boat.
zhena gogolia
Ah’m doin the Pallisers right now — halfway through Phineas Finn. It’s perfection. Tolstoy ripped off Trollope so bad.
WereBear
@J R in WV: No Internet means I work on my book.
Instead of stuff like commenting on Balloon Juice :)
Distractions are something writers learn to deal with. Before you get into it, anything else: cleaning the sink, going through the mail, matching those socks in the back of the drawer; all of that looks more appealing than coaxing words out of your brain.
WaterGirl
@J R in WV: I won’t tell her that an iPad or an iPhone can generate its own internet connection that she could use on her laptop.
germy
@schrodingers_cat: Did you read about that historic movie theater closing?
Paula
@Ruckus:
Yep. My second book is way behind my self-imposed schedule because I have been so consumed by this rolling catastrophe. And immediately after the election — for about 6 weeks — I couldn’t write at all. And even now part of me wonders every day if there’s any point in going on…
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Nabokov’s Favorite Word is Mauve
Brachiator
@debbie:
What did you think of the biography?
I discovered a large format book of the comic strip at the library when I was a teen. I still think they are some of the greatest and most lyrical graphic work ever done.
Iowa Old Lady
@Paula: Names are the bane of my existence, partly because I write in a fantasy world.
Here are a couple of places I know other people use:
SSA provided list of popular baby names for each year and by geographical area
Etymology of names
germy
@Brachiator: He also illustrated the Archy and Mehitabel stories written by the great (and now sadly forgotten) Don Marquis. About a cockroach who jumps on a reporter’s typewriter after hours to create (all lower case) poetry.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Paula: John Scalzi’s 10-point plan for getting creative work done in the age of Trump
WereBear
Likewise, I use a placeholder if something doesn’t come immediately to mind.
Like a cozy mystery series I am planning, set in the past. I looked up the census for the year my heroine was born, and I have a whole set of names for that period to choose from for everyone her age.
She meets someone older? Pick a different year.
I also consider their background, ethnicity, and the meaning of the name. It’s fun, but we must not halt the flow of drafting to do it. I agree, it is best as a separate task.
WereBear
@WaterGirl: Yes. I am trying not to know that :)
But research shows even the tiniest of nudges can be helpful.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Paula: For fantasy names, Rinkworks and Fantasy Name Generators. For modern and historical names, I’ll have to boot up my old laptop for the links. (Haven’t transferred everything yet.)
Paula
@Iowa Old Lady: Yes, I use that and other sites that have lists of names. I was just curious how others approach the task of “naming”!
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: John Scalzi’s article: yep. I did exactly what he talks about: I had to pull out completely for a good 2 months from social media and news — I couldn’t bear it. I had to focus on my immediate life and try to regain a sense of “goodness” and hope and all that. It helped me a lot. Great article!
Mnemosyne
@Paula:
I have a ton of baby name books, especially ones that include lists of ethnic and historic names. There’s a lot of resources on the Internet, but it can also be a major time-suck.
And don’t worry if names change as the character does — in his first iteration, my hero’s first name was Miles, but that didn’t fit anymore after I started my page one rewrite, so now he’s Gideon.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Paula:
Ahh. Well, I’ve tried the placeholder technique, but my characters always decide that they like the placeholder name by the time I’m halfway in. Or else I get blocked early, and finding the right name breaks things loose.
Paula
@WereBear: Using placeholders — yes. When I decided to write my first book I made the choice to allow my “pantser” tendencies free reign and that was hugely helpful. Previously I had labored over outlines and gotten bored and discouraged and didn’t finish anything. Letting go of those kinds of “rules” and finding my own process — accepting my own process — was exactly what I needed.
I NEVER, for instance, got anywhere trying to do things like write up extensive backstories for characters: where did they go to school? what was their favorite subject? Etc. I wasted a lot of time and sheer boredom on stuff like that. For me, having that sort of info come up organically was much more enjoyable.
Not to say those sorts of things aren’t helpful for Planners. Just not for me.
Paula
@Mnemosyne: Yes, no worries about character names changing during rewrites. I expect them to change!
Mnemosyne
@Paula:
For the actual task, since I write historical romance, I first make lists of period-appropriate names that I like (don’t name your Regency-era heroine Chelsea or Madison, FFS!) and then contemplate the characters and how the names fit them. It usually takes at least a couple of days to mull it over, so don’t rush it.
And sometimes the names just pop into your head. My hero has a half-brother who is a freed slave (and the hero of the next book in the series) and his name is Oscar. I can’t explain why — it popped into my head and it fits him perfectly.
Last bit: names don’t really matter that much, unless you’re doing a historical and choose something distractingly anachronistic. Mary Balogh is a writer I like who I swear chooses names just to see if she can. In one of her books, the hero is named Flavian and the heroine is named Agnes, and they pretty much never get out of bed. So don’t spend too much time worrying what readers will think. If they like your book, they don’t care all that much about the names.
WereBear
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: That’s why I use placeholder names like “BigPutz” that describe their characters :)
JOHN MANCHESTER
@Paula:
The writing program Scrivener has a random name generator with lots of useful filters. Only one of many tools this fine program offers. It’s everything Word is not. (I don’t work for them.)
schrodingers_cat
@germy: No I hadn’t heard about. I have never been to Delhi myself. Its Mumbai that is close to my heart and the city is where my people came from. There are some beautiful Art Deco era theaters in Mumbai. There is a Regal in Mumbai too. Its close to the Gateway of India and Indian Navy’s western’s HQ.
debbie
@Brachiator:
I knew nothing about him, other than my grandfather and father liked his work a lot. I was fascinated by the family history and by what I’m assuming was his subversiveness.
Paula
@JOHN MANCHESTER: Thanks John! So I assume many Scrivener-er’s use that tool.
Paula
@Mnemosyne:
Yep, I’ve had that happen!
schrodingers_cat
One project that’s been on my mind is collecting immigrant stories, since T has decided immigrants are the other, it would also be timely. How people came to the United States and why. What they had to, to give up to secure a toe hold over here. I think most people have no idea. That’s why you get idiotic comments from the President and his acolytes of social media like.
1. They should just come legally.
2. Why don’t they go back and just apply for citizenship
Even many allies have no idea what getting a long term visa, a GC or citizenship entails.
Johannes
@West of the Rockies (been a while): For what little it’s worth, the novel assumes no knowledge of the previous books. I promise.
John Wirenius
WereBear
@JOHN MANCHESTER: It is the ONLY reason I gave up my Chromebook (gave it to the cats) and got another Mac laptop.
It so much rocks.
Johannes
@La Caterina (Mrs. Johannes): I’m here! Hey, do we want the upstairs table though it needs bracing?
Johannes
@zhena gogolia: Yes! And the series gets better from their–Phineas Redux is one of my top five novels of all time. The characterization and the consequences from PF are thoroughly credible, and, well–I don’t want to spoil it/the rest of the series. Enjoy!
Iowa Old Lady
@schrodingers_cat: That is a great idea.
Joyce H
@Mnemosyne:
Argh, I see this so much! Actually, though, what I see is more the hero’s name than the heroine – they always seem to wind up with names that sound like they belong in a contemporary Western romance. Chase or Slade or something else appropriately square-jawed and two-fisted.
Brachiator
@debbie:
Ha! Interesting comment. His subversiveness was a necessary reaction to the society in which he lived.
Thanks for the feedback. I had forgotten about the bio, but need to put it on my long list of books that I want to read.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Johannes:
Trollope has been on my “I Ought to Check Him Out” list for years. I enjoyed the Cornish Trilogy by Canadian writer Robertson Davies, which IIRC, is for those who like Trollope. I really like your book cover!
Johannes
@Paula: For the characters I added, one (based on the young Winston Churchill) is named for a character in WSC’s one novel. Some of the others are named from place names–in my case, from the town I went to school in. Also (because copyright expiration is my friend), I borrowed characters from other Trollope novels, and, in the spirit of Kim Newman, from other Victorian authors. So spot-the-character-from-another-writer’s-work is a game I had fun with.
germy
They’ve made a movie about Charles Dickens. “The Man Who Invented Christmas”
Starring the guy from Downton Abbey (the character who gets killed in a car crash)
Mnemosyne
@Joyce H:
I just read pages from someone whose Regency heroine is named Blaire, but at least the other characters have a discussion about how weird that name is and why she has it.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Out of curiosity, is it okay to create a brand new fictional character who is said to be related distantly to another fictional character? For instance, could I create Erin Jane Holmes, great-great grand-niece of Sherlock Holmes? (I haven’t, but could I?)
Mnemosyne
@Joyce H:
Also, my heroine’s name (Veronica) is a little unusual for the period, but it’s not ear-jarringly modern, at least.
JOHN MANCHESTER
Nice to see other’s are enjoying Scrivener. I stumbled on it when I was looking for an outline program. This one seamlessly marries your outline with the text. Even if you’re a “pantser,” you can write chunks them move them around. Not to speak of the awesome search function, color-coded meta-tags, and its syncing with Aeon, which is good timeline software. I’ll stop now.
germy
How Nora Roberts became America’s most popular novelist.
WereBear
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Sure you could.
And I’d want to read it.
WereBear
@JOHN MANCHESTER: And it just keeps getting better.
I’ll stop now.
Mnemosyne
@West of the Rockies (been a while):
People do it all the time, so the real danger would be in accidentally replicating what someone else already did ad nauseum.
I bought a book that’s on my “to read” stack that re-writes the Sherlock Holmes stories so that she’s a Victorian lady named Charlotte who needs a beard for her detective work.
Johannes
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Holmes is out of copyright, so yes. A character still in copyright is trickier. If the link is only superficial, and the character is not too current, you may have some leeway. Some authors, like Kim Newman, get away with fleeting cameos by characters still under copyright under slightly altered names.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
De facto open borders creates resentment among some Immigrants who follow the rules.
And it obviously enrages narrow minded law and order types.
It also makes it harder for the illegal immigrants to get good jobs, and to be able to live a good life out of the shadows.
Trump’s policies are vile and are no answer, but political evasion by both parties on this issue are partly responsible for the rise of the shitgibbon.
Johannes
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Thanks! I’m a big fan of Davies, myself. By the bye, the Beeb did a great 70s adaptation of the Pallisers that’s still readily available, starring Susan Hampshire. It’s quite good. (Also, for Whovians, watching for all the actors who appeared in classic Doctor Who is a game in itself.)
Joyce H
@Mnemosyne:
Yeah, that’s not jarring. I seem to go with Jane Austen names, she’s provided plenty. My one oddly named character was my first, Cleo, short for Cleopatra, but her dad was an eccentric artist who dragged his family all over Europe and the Middle East, and the brother was named Hannibal. Other than that, Katherine and Amy, and the twins in my WIP are Elizabeth and Marianne.
As for men’s names, there are probably scores that sound fine today that are era-appropriate. All those Johns and Williams and Richards. They don’t really NEED to go with Shane, etc. Of course, some names were era-appropriate that I don’t think would be used today. You almost have to be Georgette Heyer to get away with naming your hero Sylvester – or Waldo.
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat: forgot to add that Immigrants stories are a good idea. Funny that some people don’t know or forgot their family stories.
schrodingers_cat
@Brachiator: The borders are not open. Its not like people can just walk in and they are welcomed with open arms. Getting any long term visa is a long and arduous process. T has declared a war on all immigrants and foreign born. The animus goes way way beyond the undocumented population. If you want to pretend that this is just about illegal immigration be my guest.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@WereBear:
Thanks, but it was genuinely hypothetical. But if you want to give it a go, I’d read it!
Is there a time aspect to borrowing a deceased writer’s characters or creating new characters based on them? I wouldn’t want to, but Tom Clancy is not that long gone, so could you create the cousin of some character Clancy created? I imagine his estate might put up a fuss. What about a writer who’s been dead for 70+ years?
WereBear
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Tom Clancy is recent, and under copyright.
But I could do anything with Hercules, and people have.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Johannes:
I loved Susan Hampshire in Monarch of the Glen. She’s much older than I am, but if she fancied a brief fling… I’d not turn her away!
I’m new to the Whovian universe, having joined with Christopher “Absolutely Fantastic” Eccelston.
Johannes
Hampshire is at her absolute best in the Pallisers–though I quite like Monarch of the Glen myself.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Johannes:
I loved the first few seasons, but thought it should have ended when the main characters left. Don’t Cousin Oliver the Glen!
WereBear
The great thing about names, and what makes them worth fussing over, is the wonderful uses they have. They can evoke their parents or siblings, a time and place, a trait or a burden.
Like “Scrooge.” How perfect is that?
If a character is ordinary, I give them an ordinary name. And vice versa. I choose this word, which will be used over and over, to evoke that character every time the reader sees it.
Johannes
@West of the Rockies (been a while): True, that. Although it was nice to see Tom Baker working again…
Brachiator
@schrodingers_cat:
I said that Trump’s policies were vile. And you and I know exactly what is behind them.
That said, I do not want to hijack an interesting writer’s thread.
As I also noted, works about immigrants are timely. Some in the country have a weird historical and political amnesia.
Paula
@Johannes:
I’ve seen that with P.G. Wodehouse names — they turn up in various mystery series’ I’ve read and things like that.
Paula
@WereBear:
Yep! Hit right out of the park.
Iowa Old Lady
@West of the Rockies (been a while): The copyright should be ended at death plus 70 years, but things get tricky.
Frex, I was at a panel where someone was writing Sherlock Holmes and the movies had rights to the look of him, ie the hat and pipe.
WereBear
I’ve finished two blog posts this weekend, so now it’s time for me to kick back, listen to some music, and read more of Cell by Robin Cook.
He's not a stylist by any means, but a fine imagination :)
Don't forget, this is a thread that can go on as people from other time zones weigh in, and I do come back and check it for the rest of the day, as do others. Because of it's unique character, these threads are kind of 24 hours, or more, in nature.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne: Names sometimes surprise me. It turns out that Tiffany was around as a name in the middle ages.
Juice Box
@West of the Rockies (been a while): Then you have quite a treat ahead of you! They’re all good, but the Palliser novels are wonderful. You’ll recognize Phineas Finn.
I’m headedoff to Amazon right now to make a purchase.
WereBear
@Iowa Old Lady: I did not know that. Cool!
However historically accurate it is, I don’t think it would fly in any medieval novel, though.
Major Major Major Major
Thanks for all the stories, notes, and links, everybody. As usual, I slept in.
@Paula:
I’m insane, so my characters have names like Nuts Adams, Utah Houston, and Kat Peoples. They just sort of pop into my head when I see signs, or think of bad puns. Everybody unimportant I just name from the top 10-20 baby names from their state in their birth decade. Oh, and I have a wizard named Dennis, in the tradition of wizards with normal names.
Mnemosyne
@Iowa Old Lady:
Alice was a man’s name in the Middle Ages. I still wouldn’t suggest naming your hero Alice unless it was for a very, very specific reason.
Mnemosyne
Sorry, East Coasters, but since it’s a beautiful, sunny Southern California day, I’m going to take my laptop over to the Huntington and do some plein air writing. See you jackals later!
Miss Bianca
@WereBear: as I recall, there’s a Georgette Heyer character named Tiffany – short for Theofronia, or some such cumbersome title. GH was a stickler for period accuracy, so I guess there had to have been at least one Regency-era Tiffany floating around out there!
Victor Matheson
That butterfly is known as a “mourning cloak.” It is known to congregate around piles of crap.
Make what you will of those two facts with respect to the current state of politics in the US.
WereBear
@Miss Bianca:
Which makes total sense. But today’s Tiffanies were named after the jewelry store.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne: Ooh. I want to see that!
arielibra
I am binge-reading the Liaden Universe.
I felt so mature when I finally got to where I could find Trollope funny and readable.
Peter
Sorry I missed this; I was at the very first signing of our book tour. It went well; we sold everything the bookstore ordered plus the box I had in my car. Next week we’re in Providence, Portland, ME, and Boston (I missed the meetup by a mere week). Depending on when the next chats are, I may be on the road so I’ll try to check in. Tour info here for anyone in those cities, LA, the Bay Area, or Chicago.
Vickie Feminist
I bought your book Phineas at Bay as a $9 Kindle (linking from BJ naturally). As a huge fan of Trollope, I am really looking forward to reading it. Isn’t Phineas a whiny unsympathetic man? If so, I suspect he will get his just desserts once again.
schrodingers_cat
@Peter: Congratulations! BTW does your offer of sending you a pitch for an article/essay still stand? What is the best way to reach you?
Thanks.
Johannes
@Vickie Feminist: Thanks for buying the book, and I do hope you enjoy it (do please let me know). My cats Giles, Ethan, Betty, and Ninja will enjoy the kibble!
Phineas is unsympathetic in his romantic life (keeps falling for women with cash and connections) and a lot whiny in Phineas Finn, though basically one of the good guys politically. The events of Phineas Redux, in which he is tried for a murder he didn’t commit, and betrayed by several of his friends, beat the vanity out of him, actually sober his outlook, and give him a clue.
Collin Piprell
@TaMara (HFG):
I’ve signed a contract with Common Deer Press (CDP) for the first three books of my epic MAGIC CIRCLES series of novels. MOM, the first of them, is launching 5 April 2017; Genesis 2.0 is coming out 5 Oct. 2017; and Resurrections, which I’m working on now, in Oct. of 2018. http://www.commondeerpress.com
CDP’s generous terms – given how new they are and how offbeat my stories – are an expression of passionate confidence in the books, and my signing of the contracts in turn expresses my own confidence in CDP. I’m pleased to be working together with them to our mutual advantage.
What readership niche are they targeting? In principle, they’ll consider books from any genre that appeal to any reader demographic. But these books have to satisfy two criteria: they should be well written, and they mustn’t seem too familiar. CDP mean to establish a list of very readable surprises.
CDP believes that plenty of real readers still survive out there in the wild. People who don’t suffer massive attention deficits. People who aren’t afraid to trust their own judgment. People who like to engage with original and well-told stories that just might change the way they see things forever after.