Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

American History and Black History Cannot Be Separated

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Bark louder, little dog.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

Let’s finish the job.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Open Thread: All Putingate Needed Was A Saudi Connection…

Open Thread: All Putingate Needed Was A Saudi Connection…

by | 220 Comments

This post is in: , , , , ,

Betsy deVos’s brother, Erik Prince, pops up again…

The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladi­mir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

The meeting took place around Jan. 11 — nine days before Trump’s inauguration — in the Seychelles islands in the Indian Ocean, officials said. Though the full agenda remains unclear, the UAE agreed to broker the meeting in part to explore whether Russia could be persuaded to curtail its relationship with Iran, including in Syria, a Trump administration objective that would likely require major concessions to Moscow on U.S. sanctions.

Though Prince had no formal role with the Trump campaign or transition team, he presented himself as an unofficial envoy for Trump to high-ranking Emiratis involved in setting up his meeting with the Putin confidant, according to the officials, who did not identify the Russian.

Prince was an avid supporter of Trump. After the Republican convention, he contributed $250,000 to Trump’s campaign, the national party and a pro-Trump super PAC led by GOP mega-donor Rebekah Mercer, records show. He has ties to people in Trump’s circle, including Stephen K. Bannon, now serving as the president’s chief strategist and senior counselor. Prince’s sister Betsy DeVos serves as education secretary in the Trump administration. And Prince was seen in the Trump transition offices in New York in December…

Prince is best known as the founder of Blackwater, a security firm that became a symbol of U.S. abuses in Iraq after a series of incidents including one in 2007 in which the company’s guards were accused — and later criminally convicted — of killing civilians in a crowded Iraqi square. Prince sold the firm, which was subsequently re-branded, but has continued building a private paramilitary empire with contracts across the Middle East and Asia.

Prince would probably have been seen as too controversial to serve in any official capacity in the Trump transition or administration. But his ties to Trump advisers, experience with clandestine work and relationship with the royal leaders of the Emirates — where he moved in 2010 amid mounting legal problems for his American business — would have positioned him as an ideal go-between…

We’ve come to the brink of global disaster so a handful of rich arseholes can live out their James Bond fantasies IRL.

Apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play what’s on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

220Comments

  1. 1.

    A Ghost to Most

    I can’t decide whether it was incompetence and/or arrogance on their part, that they did such a bad job running the conspiracy.

  6. 6.

    Patricia Kayden

    The Trump regime is like a rotting onion. The more you peel, the nastier it smells. And we’ve only just begun.

  8. 8.

    Roger Moore

    @A Ghost to Most:
    I suspect that the primary reason they did such a bad job of planning the conspiracy is that they thought they’d be in charge of the levers of power to the extent they could shut down any investigation, so subtlety was unnecessary. Whether you want to classify that as arrogance or incompetence is a tough call; it was arrogance enabled by incompetence.

  11. 11.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Mike J:

    That will probably get more exposure and have longer legs than if he had thrown out the first pitch and been booed.

  13. 13.

    Hunter Gathers

    Prince is best known as the founder of Blackwater, a security firm that became a symbol of U.S. abuses in Iraq after a series of incidents including one in 2007 in which the company’s guards were accused — and later criminally convicted — of killing civilians in a crowded Iraqi square.

    Whoever constructed that sentence should be kicked in the face. It’s like the conviction is a lesser charge than the accusation.

  17. 17.

    A Ghost to Most

    “I am still angry about the treatment of [President Barack Obama’s nominee] Merrick Garland,” Blumenthal noted. “My Republican colleagues have said if the shoe were on the other foot, we would have done the same. It would have been as wrong if we had [refused to give Garland a hearing] as it was when they did.”

    “But my vote is not about Merrick Garland,” he continued. “It is about Neil Gorsuch and it is about the constitutional crisis that may well be looming as a potential threat to our democracy.”

    Blumenthal pointed out that FBI Director James Comey has testified that the agency is investigating ties between President Trump’s associates and the Russian interference in the U.S. elections.

    “The independence of our judicial branch has never been more threatened or more important,” the senator declared, citing impeachment proceedings against President Richard Nixon. “The possibility of a Supreme Court needing to enforce a subpoena against the president of the United States is far from idle speculation. It has happened before in United States vs. Nixon.”

    Richard Blumenthal, Gorsuch hearings

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @debbie:

    According to the video, he’s Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi.

    (Edited)

  21. 21.

    different-church-lady

    @JPL: “We don’t have a secret Arab meeting problem! YOU have a secret Arab meeting problem!”

  22. 22.

    Anne Laurie

    @debbie: Per the WaPo article, that’s “the crown prince of Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed al-Nahyan”…, who helpfully set up the meeting at his family’s Seychelles resort.

  25. 25.

    mai naem mobile

    The whole Republican Party in DC and NY need to be lined up and shot for treason. What a bunch of loser traitors who put money and power above everything else.

  26. 26.

    TenguPhule

    @A Ghost to Most: Which of course raises the question nobody wants to think about.

    If the Supreme Court does a 5 v 4 against holding Trump and friends accountable for Treason, then what?

    What happens when every legal method of redress is denied? When justice itself is captive to the criminals?

    We are coming to that moment. And a lot faster then any of us was expecting.

  28. 28.

    JPL

    OT.. Who among of us doesn’t have a pet who waits until you finish cleaning to dump the toy basket, and send stuffed animals in the air. lol

  31. 31.

    germy

    Our friends at LGM have been chewing on the LA Times examination of our current … er… situation.

  33. 33.

    geg6

    @JPL:

    Been proud of my senator quite a bit lately. He was never my cup of tea, though he’s miles better than Toomey and I certainly vote for him. But he’s taken some principled stands the last few months and has been pretty scathing toward Trump.

  35. 35.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The rot that has been setting in over the past 37 years really, really, really needs to be addressed.

  37. 37.

    Ella in New Mexico

    Meanwhile, we’re all supposed to be outraged that Susan Rice might have figured out who the traitors were who were talking to the Russian spies when she saw intelligence reports as NSA. Such a breach of privacy! Who cares that Erik Prince is committing yet another crime in order to help the Trump team get cozy with Russia.

    Which, incidentally, is what today’s “report” by that pig Mike Cernovich was designed to do-distract you from the real crimes, AGAIN.

  38. 38.

    Brachiator

    Once again, I strongly recommend the Guardian long read on Hillary Clinton.

    The destruction of Hillary Clinton: sexism, Sanders and the millennial feminists

    In this extract from her book, Susan Bordo asks how the most qualified candidate ever to run for president lost the seemingly unloseable election

    The author throws down one hell of a gauntlet:

    Before I go any further, let me put my own cards on the table. The destruction of Hillary Clinton, I firmly believe, while propelled by a perfect storm of sexism, partisan politics and media madness, was bookended by two immensely powerful assaults. One was the inappropriate, inaccurate and inflammatory interference in the general election by FBI director James Comey. The other occurred much earlier, during the primaries, but its consequences are felt even today. I know I will make some of my younger feminist colleagues (and other left leaners) furious, which was distressing to me then, and still is.

    These people, in so many ways, are my natural colleagues, and most are as upset as I am by Trump’s victory. But they played a big role in the thin edge (not a landslide, as Trump would have us believe) that gave Trump the election. For while Trump supporters hooted and cheered for their candidate, forgiving him every lie, every crime, every bit of disgusting behaviour, too many young Democrats made it very clear (in newspaper and internet interviews, in polls, and in the mainstream media) that they were only voting for Hillary Clinton as the lesser of two evils, “holding their noses”, tears still streaming down their faces over the primary defeat of the person they felt truly deserved their votes. Some didn’t vote at all. And as much as I am in agreement with many of his ideas, Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party – not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.

    There is also a piece by Trevor Timm on why Bernie Sanders represents the hope of the Democratic Party. I don’t agree, but it is worth the read also.

  41. 41.

    Mike in NC

    I think Trump would have offered Prince pretty much any job he wanted. Maybe even VP if Pence turned it down.

    Both are soulless bottom-feeders.

  43. 43.

    Patricia Kayden

    @A Ghost to Most: Good for the Democrats who are standing on principle to vote against Gorsuch. Trump is under investigation and doesn’t deserve any SCOTUS confirmations. Let’s take a page from Republicans and obstruct.

  44. 44.

    Princess

    Has anyone noticed that every time the other side tries to score a hit (today: Susan Rice) our side comes back with a new and crushing piece of information (today: Erik Prince, the Seychelles, the UAE and Trump/Putin)? It is almost like they are dribbling them out according to plan.

  45. 45.

    ? Martin

    @Roger Moore:

    I suspect that the primary reason they did such a bad job of planning the conspiracy is that they thought they’d be in charge of the levers of power to the extent they could shut down any investigation, so subtlety was unnecessary. Whether you want to classify that as arrogance or incompetence is a tough call; it was arrogance enabled by incompetence.

    I’d add a few other variable to that mix. Trump doesn’t do subtle and I suspect many of these other guys don’t as well. So they can only do as good of a job as they are capable of doing. Further, Trump simply doesn’t believe in institutions, and many of the folks around him believe that the existing institutions are incompetent, which only leads them to put more faith in your first item – that they would have authoritarian power – than they would really have. And I don’t think many of these guys are long-term planners anyway. Trump certainly isn’t. He’s the kind of guy that would set the cat on fire and then be bewildered that it ran around setting the house on fire – who could have anticipated that? Winning the election was the goal, and they couldn’t see beyond that point at all.

  46. 46.

    JPL

    @A Ghost to Most: lol When I was younger our cat would do that. Finch the dog is polite enough to leave the injured field mice on the deck I certainly didn’t like it when he was tossing the thing up in the air though.

  48. 48.

    Patricia Kayden

    @Mike in NC: Being a Rightwing Billionaire appears to be a winning qualification for many of Trump’s nominees. No other qualifications are necessary so Prince may yet be a nominee. Who knows?

  49. 49.

    JPL

    @Patricia Kayden: Earlier I was streaming MSNBC and someone mentioned that the dems don’t want to become just an obstructionist party. Well why the heck not, it worked for the repubs.

  50. 50.

    JPL

    @Miss Bianca: ugh. Only lizards for my dog. (knock on wood) Finch does catch worms and lizards, and the young man next door said what do you expect, you named him after a bird.

  51. 51.

    Davis X. Machina

    I’m sure it was a harmless bit of mir i druzhba in the tropical sun.
    Reciprocal exchanges of fraternal greetings and expressions of peace between our two great peoples, Russian and American.
    That sort of thing…

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    Also, too, as others have noted, the LA Times Editorials against Trump are essential reading. Today; Why Trump Lies.

    He gives every indication that he is as much the gullible tool of liars as he is the liar in chief.

    Oh, hell yeah!

  55. 55.

    Baud

    @JPL:

    someone mentioned that the dems don’t want to become just an obstructionist party. Well why the heck not, it worked for the repubs.

    Between 2008 and 2016, it was a common refrain that the Dems could not simply be against Republicans, but had to offer something positive for people to believe in. I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.

  56. 56.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Brachiator:

    It is excellent. On the strength of your recommendation I read the extract in the Guardian, and on the strength of that extract I pre-ordered the entire book. It should arrive in my Kindle app in a little over five hours.

  57. 57.

    frosty

    @geg6:

    Been proud of my senator quite a bit lately. He was never my cup of tea, though he’s miles better than Toomey and I certainly vote for him.

    I agree, I’ve been pleasantly suprised, not only by his stands, but how he’s speaking out publicly about them. I’m still PO’d that we didn’t get rid of Toomey.

  58. 58.

    Hunter Gathers

    @Baud:

    I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.

    It’s the burden of being a party that doesn’t represent Real (White) America. Unless we go full Klan, we’re going to have to work twice as hard and be half as black.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @JPL: Wilson’s an asshole, I just found out he made the ad that morphed Max Cleland into Saddam, but it’s a lot of fun watching him spew his bile at trump and the trumpkins

    I just noticed when I pasted that this wasn’t Wilson, but he retweeted LittlePod. Wilson and JPod are both dicks, but especially considering our mutual enemy, I’ll take the momentary alliance.

    John Podhoretz‏Verified account @ j podhoretz 2h2 hours ago
    Congratulations, Kellyanne, on crawling into the alt-Right dirt. You have now soiled yourself beyond recognition, and are beyond saving.

    she tweeted out the ratings for Cernovich’s 60 minutes interview and called it a big win, or some such Trumpese

  61. 61.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud:

    I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.

    Because the “Daddy” party was composed of special snowflakes and the “Mommy” party’s only role in life was to validate their special feelings.

    I say to hell with that. The “Daddies” can spend the next twenty years farming vegetables for the nation with a Mexican overseer watching over them with a shotgun.

  62. 62.

    Roger Moore

    @JPL:

    Well why the heck not, it worked for the repubs.

    Because the two parties aren’t just mirror images of each other. Obstruction is the essence of conservatism, since the whole point of conservatism is, as William F. Buckley said, to stand athwart history yelling stop. That isn’t good enough for liberals, who are actually trying to create something new.

  63. 63.

    hovercraft

    @Princess:
    “Has anyone noticed that every time the other side tries to score a hit (today: Susan Rice) our side comes back with a new and crushing piece of information”

    The old chestnut, “never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel”, is even more applicable here, don’t pick a fight with the IC, when you’re closet if packed with skeletons and dead boys. As ugly as this is, it’s going to get a whole lot uglier.

  65. 65.

    TenguPhule

    @hovercraft:

    As ugly as this is, it’s going to get a whole lot uglier.

    And we’ll able to tell we’ve arrived when its white republicans that start flinging themselves out of high rise buildings after stabbing themselves multiple times in the back.

  66. 66.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    @Brachiator: Wilmur is the destruction of the Democratic party. Think we’ll win in 2018? Think again, not with Wilmur around telling everyone how terrible Democrats are.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    WASHINGTON – Today Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and RNC Finance Chairman Steve Wynn announced additional members of the RNC’s Finance leadership team:

    “I am delighted to announce the addition of these longtime friends of the Party and supporters of this administration to our Finance leadership team,” said Chairwoman McDaniel. “Elliott Broidy, Michael Cohen, and Louis DeJoy will serve as National Deputy Finance Chairmen [….]

    Mr. Cohen is currently the personal attorney to President Donald J. Trump. He served for more than a decade as Executive Vice President Special Counsel to President Trump at the Trump Organization and has sat on the boards of multiple Trump organizations, including Trump Productions, the Eric Trump Foundation, and the Miss Universe Organization. In addition to raising millions of dollars for his campaign, Mr. Cohen has been an active spokesperson and advisor for the President during his interest in seeking office since 2011.

    Link.

    God, I miss Nixon.

  72. 72.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:

    “Between 2008 and 2016, it was a common refrain that the Dems could not simply be against Republicans, but had to offer something positive for people to believe in. I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.”

    Democrats must always prove themselves worthy and every “mistake” is the greatest transgression ever. Republicans are the natural rulers of this country so they must be given all deference and any mistakes if they are even noted, are simply mistakes and not to be held against them. The GOP represents “real America”, so their actions are always made in the interests of America. Democrats hate America so everything we do is always suspect.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    I just noticed this part

    The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladi­mir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

    Incredible.

  75. 75.

    Cacti

    @Brachiator:

    Bernie and Trump pulled the con of the century.

    Convincing 46% of America and an EC majority that voting for the white guy was revolutionary.

  76. 76.

    SatanicPanic

    @Hunter Gathers: What drives me nuts- Shaun King does this too- is they’re like, “I go to rallies in Red States and there’s a hunger for progressive change there!” no shit guys, no one said there are no liberals in these states, if you’re constantly in front of favorable audiences you’re going to get an incomplete picture.

  77. 77.

    Mike in DC

    100 seats in 2018. Plus as many Senate seats and governorships as possible. It’s a matter of constitutional necessity.

  81. 81.

    Aleta

    A former campaign adviser for Donald Trump met with and passed documents to a Russian intelligence operative in New York City in 2013.

    The adviser, Carter Page, met with a Russian intelligence operative named Victor Podobnyy, who was later charged by the US government alongside two others for acting as unregistered agents of a foreign government. The charges, filed in January 2015, came after federal investigators busted a Russian spy ring that was seeking information on US sanctions as well as efforts to develop alternative energy. Page is an energy consultant.

    A court filing by the US government contains a transcript of a recorded conversation in which Podobnyy speaks with one of the other men busted in the spy ring, Igor Sporyshev, about trying to recruit someone identified as “Male-1.” BuzzFeed News has confirmed that “Male-1” is Page.

    The revelation of Page’s connection to Russian intelligence — which occurred more than three years before his association with Trump — is the most clearly documented contact to date between Russian intelligence and someone in Trump’s orbit.

    Buzzfeed

  82. 82.

    Villago Delenda Est

    In the Obama administration, you couldn’t throw a cat and not find an honest man or woman.

    In the Trump malassstration, it’s reverse polarity time. They’re all criminals.

  84. 84.

    lollipopguild

    @Cacti: It is/was “revoluntionary”, trump and co. want to put the country into a time machine and take us back to the 1950’s, 1920’s 1890’s, or 1850’s depending on your right wing fantasy.

  85. 85.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Baud:

    These days it doesn’t. But blurring the lines between the Executive and the purely political RNC by installing the president’s attorney as a high-level fundraiser for the party strikes me as another example of destroying traditional institutional norms. It’s not really surprising. It’s just another straw adding to the cumulative weight.

  89. 89.

    joel hanes

    @Roger Moore:

    they thought they’d be in charge of the levers of power to the extent they could shut down any investigation

    Worked for Iran Contra.
    Worked for Walker in Wisconsin.

  90. 90.

    Hunter Gathers

    @SatanicPanic: If Sanders is the future of the party, then the Democratic Party is dead. People who are not descended from Europeans have targets on their backs. They face harassment, fear of deportation and being murdered for sport. But the big banks are the problem

    Goldman Sachs didn’t murder Trayvon Martin. Wilmer thinks that they did.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    @SiubhanDuinne: What I’m trying to say is that I’m not sure that was ever an institutional norm, as long as he really was Trump’s personal attorney and doesn’t do any governmental work. I know that’s a big assumption when it comes to Trump.

  96. 96.

    MomSense

    Major drama all weekend at my house. Need to get caught up on all the news and rest.

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It is excellent. On the strength of your recommendation I read the extract in the Guardian, and on the strength of that extract I pre-ordered the entire book. It should arrive in my Kindle app in a little over five hours.

    Very cool. And that reminds me that I have to order the book myself.

  99. 99.

    Iowa Old Lady

    @Aleta: All these names and dates and events are jumbled together in my head. I know Josh Marshall is trying to keep a time line, but I feel like I need someone to establish what happened, when, and what links to what. There’s just so much.

  101. 101.

    SatanicPanic

    @Hunter Gathers: I think big banks are part of a problem. But I’m also nervous about that too- it’s a short leap from “Goldman Sachs is evil” to “Jews control the banks!”. If you’re going to go after banks go after Wells Fargo or something. But yeah, racism is the big one and if Bernie can’t stop whitesplaining about it things are really going to get ugly.

  106. 106.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: Who among us doesn’t have a kitty who comes running to use the litter box the minute you have cleaned it? Every. single. day.

  107. 107.

    magurakurin

    On Sanders… he ain’t the hope of nothing… he is old and will leave this mortal plane quite soon.

  110. 110.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: I say we fight with everything we have. If, in the end, obstructing everything is what it comes down to, I say obstruct everything. See how the pricks who did it for 8 years like being on the other side.

    They count on us to follow all the rules and always be mr. nice guy, but the stakes are high, there’s a time to fight, and this is it.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    @Brachiator:

    And as much as I am in agreement with many of his ideas, Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party – not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.

    Slow clap. Sing it, sister.

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    @Brachiator:

    He gives every indication that he is as much the gullible tool of liars as he is the liar in chief.

    I liked that so much I had to see it in print one more time!

  115. 115.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    @Mnemosyne:

    And as much as I am in agreement with many of his ideas, Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party – not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.

    And god damn him for it.

  119. 119.

    WaterGirl

    @TenguPhule: JUMP! You Fuckers – Cole needs to pull out that most awesome graphic that was heretofore reserved for the banksters.

  120. 120.

    Roger Moore

    @TenguPhule:
    Sure. I don’t want to argue that the Democrats should never try to stop the Republicans, or even that it won’t be their main goal as long as the Republicans are in power, but it isn’t enough. The Republicans are fundamentally representing privileged people, and protecting that privilege will always be enough to win support from their base. The Democrats are representing the oppressed, so just keeping the privileged from expanding their power isn’t enough; they need to present a plan for improving things for the little guy.

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: That was the part of that statement that I found so heartening!!!! I assume you mean incredible in a good way?

  123. 123.

    debbie

    Mitch McConnell: The only man on Earth who makes Donald J. Trump look honest in comparison.

  126. 126.

    Baud

    @WaterGirl: I’m glad the information is coming out, but I didn’t mean it in a good or bad way — simply descriptive of the world we live in now.

  127. 127.

    Lurking Canadian

    The thing with Carter Page meeting Russian spies in 2013 strikes me as WAY more important than a meeting that took place in 2017. They for sure weren’t planning the coup in January 2017, since it had already taken place by then.

  130. 130.

    GregB

    This is like some shitty movie plot where all of the interational villains, despots, arms dealers, and moral free capitaists form a Spectre style group to bleed the world of resources and capital at the expense of all the weak and powerless people on the planet.

  132. 132.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Baud: @magurakurin: That would be awful. You know they’d say Hillary killed him.

    You know if the flabby sugar addict has a grabber (and please, FSM, let it happen, not on a tacky gilt chair, but on throne, a la Elvis) the conspiracy theories will make chem trails and grassy knolls look like hard science.

    @Baud: according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

    You’ve got to wonder what kind of info foreign governments, including allies and “allies”, are sitting on and will release when it suits them.

  133. 133.

    debbie

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    McConnell is really ticking me off. NPR played a couple excerpts of his Senate remarks, and I almost drove off the road. Someone either needs to stand up and (certainly more directly than Schumer and Leahy did) call bullshit on McConnell. They should introduce a proclamation proclaiming his bullshitiness. I know it wouldn’t get passed, but it would get entered into the record and could go viral on FB or Twitter. Shame his sorry Turtle Ass.

  134. 134.

    Millard Filmore

    @Baud:

    according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

    Does that mean all 3 IC communities are leaking that tidbit? Did this information come from simple not-at-all-secret inquiries and someone made a mistake in replying?

  136. 136.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Brachiator: Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party –

    and he’s still doing it

  138. 138.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: I read that blurb above and thought “wow, other countries have our backs on this, they will make sure it doesn’t get buried”. I haven’t felt as hopeful since Nov 8 as I do tonight.

  141. 141.

    hovercraft

    @lamh36:

    Which one of these sounds like the “establishment” ?

    “Tom Perez won’t apologize for saying Republicans “don’t give a shit about people””

    or

    “Bernie Sanders Says Trump Voters Not ‘Deplorables,’ Hillary Clinton to Blame for Election Loss”

    Fuck him, as @Major Major Major Major: said, shit or get off the fucking pot.

  146. 146.

    lollipopguild

    @Baud: It depends on what people say. People are going to be paying attention to everything that is said and there will be push back on anyone who does not spend their time and energy going after trump.

  148. 148.

    Roger Moore

    @debbie:

    Someone either needs to stand up and (certainly more directly than Schumer and Leahy did) call bullshit on McConnell.

    Is this good enough?:

    When McConnell deprived President Obama of a vote on Garland, it was a nuclear option. The rest is fallout.— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) April 4, 2017

  150. 150.

    different-church-lady

    @hovercraft:

    Bernie Sanders Says Trump Voters Not ‘Deplorables,’

    Dude still thinks he can put a harness that monster, eh?

  151. 151.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    @Baud: A real shit show. Why I bet they even tell us this Russian thing is just a way to distract us from how awful the Democrats really are.

  153. 153.

    lollipopguild

    @Baud: A lot of people are very tired of Bernie’s both side bs. He and any others who spend the time attacking the dems and Hilz are going to regret it.

  154. 154.

    Aleta

    Happening this weekend in Fla, negotiations said to be organized by Kushner

    China wants the Trump administration to adopt its concept of “a new model of great power relations,” Xi’s proposal to avoid conflict and focus on cooperation. China also wants Trump to endorse Xi’s signature “One Belt, One Road” initiative, China’s massive regional infrastructure and development project. China also seeks U.S. noninterference in issues it considers core interests, including Taiwan, Tibet and its internal affairs.

    In exchange, the Chinese are prepared to offer as-yet-unspecified investment proposals to help advance Trump’s domestic agenda of creating jobs. Kushner and Cui have kept in close communication and the Chinese leadership has come to rely on the Kushner channel, which was used to help arrange the coming summit.

    … Can someone please explain to Trump and Kushner that one of the ways that China can devalue its currency is by buying up American assets? A world where the U.S. simultaneously increases exports to China and foreign direct investment from China is not next to impossible.

    … A nascent grand strategy is becoming visible for the Trump administration, and it’s a rather disturbing one. The grand strategy is that the administration demonstrates a willingness to rent out its foreign policy to any interested investor. So long as Trump can proclaim some glossy, high-profile investments, he is willing to trade off U.S. interests in the Pacific Rim or Europe or wherever. Which means that countries such as China can have their way with Trump so long as they meet the minimum price, which is a few promised billions.

    This is a dangerous and stupid game to play. Current shifts in foreign policy can have long-lasting effects; announcements of investments can be followed by non-implementation. It also guarantees that all of America’s allies in the Pacific Rim will gravitate closer to China than the United States.

    I don’t mean to suggest that a new Cold War with China is a better outcome. … But it is hard not to conclude that Trump and Kushner are spectacularly out of their depth on these issues. Worse, Trump displays no metacognition whatsoever…. He and Kushner will therefore sell off core national interests and investments at cut-rate prices.

    That’s usually what happens when neophytes bargain with experts.

    Wapo article, using quotes from several places

  156. 156.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Roger Moore: it’s definitely true that we can’t be like the republicans–say no to everything but forget to have a positive agenda the party agrees on for when we eventually have power–but I don’t think we’ve got that problem. More now than in 2008, for sure, but we know for example what an infrastructure bill would look like.

  157. 157.

    Baud

    @different-church-lady:

    I know you know this, but for the record

    “I know there are only 60 days left to make our case — and don’t get complacent, don’t see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he’s done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.”

    “But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

    She’s a monster.

  161. 161.

    TenguPhule

    @Aleta:

    In exchange, the Chinese are prepared to offer as-yet-unspecified investment proposals to help advance Trump’s domestic agenda of creating jobs.

    It sounds like China is playing the Trump and Trump is playing the rube who buys into Trump University.

    Surely, he can’t be that stupid………………..oh bugger.

  162. 162.

    Sab

    @TenguPhule: They Supreme CT cannot do a 5/4 decision for the foreseeable future since they only have 8 justices. Hopefully we can keep it that way for a couple of years.

  165. 165.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Roger Moore:

    When McConnell deprived President Obama of a vote on Garland, it was a nuclear option. The rest is fallout.— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) April 4, 2017

    Brilliant line from Schiff, and bravo! to him. But why does it show tomorrow’s date?

  171. 171.

    TenguPhule

    @Roger Moore:

    Now we have to get the word out so voters don’t have an excuse to claim both parties are the same.

    Never stopped them before. Doubt it will change now.

  173. 173.

    hovercraft

    @Baud:
    Why do you insist on giving us the entire quote in context, no less!! That’s no fun, it takes away from the attack that she thinks everyone who supported him is deplorable. It’s 2017 and at least half the country will tell you that Obama said that “you didn’t build that”, in the context of saying that all progress is from government or some such.

  174. 174.

    Baud

    @hovercraft: If she had only said the first paragraph, there should have been no controversy in a rational world. That she said the second paragraph and there still was outrage is obscene and will not be forgotten.

  175. 175.

    Jeffro

    @GregB:

    This is like some shitty movie plot where all of the interational villains, despots, arms dealers, and moral free capitaists form a Spectre style group to bleed the world of resources and capital at the expense of all the weak and powerless people on the planet.

    They remind me, almost too perfectly, of Hydra infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D. in Cap 2

  176. 176.

    FlipYrWhig

    @SatanicPanic:

    What drives me nuts- Shaun King does this too- is they’re like, “I go to rallies in Red States and there’s a hunger for progressive change there!”

    SUCH a dumb gambit, and, yes, they do it all the time. Yeah, they have cities and college towns in every state, dude.

  178. 178.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Shana:

    Ha! How I would love to see Kind Hearts and Coronets again on the big screen (I own it on DVD) — or The Captain’s Paradise (ditto), in which he plays just one character but with two personae.

  180. 180.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh good god, isn’t there ANYONE who ISN’T involved w/ this mess?

    “Okay. Here’s what we’ve got. The Rand Corporation in conjunction with the saucer people…Under the supervision of the reverse vampires are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner!”

    Is there anyone in Rome who has not slept with my daughter?!

  182. 182.

    Aleta

    @Baud: The mood swings forced by this fiasco are getting to be regular as tides. Lately though the dives seem harder than ever to bear, for me.

  183. 183.

    sanjeevs

    For anyone whos lived in a developing country that trip to Iraq is concerning.
    One-on-one meetings between the scion of the ruling family and the head of the army. Not good

  185. 185.

    efgoldman

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Wilmer thinks that they did.

    I don’t think Wilmer has thought about it at all.
    He can’t morph into 21st century Harold Stassen quickly enough.

  188. 188.

    danielx

    @A Ghost to Most:

    I won’t say I’ve gotten used to the sound of flying critters bouncing off venetian blinds, but I’ve heard it enough to not mistake it for anything else. On the other hand, eventually they do fly out if you leave an open window or door. Worse is coming downstairs and finding a feline lying in a bunch of bloody feathers on the kitchen floor, looking sublimely smug and satisfied.

  189. 189.

    dogwood

    @geg6:
    I’m late to this thread, but Bob Casey has always struck me as a very good person and the fight against Trumpism isn’t going to be won with ideology alone.

  190. 190.

    Baud

    When this is all over, I’m looking forward to taking the Trump Treason World Tour.

  192. 192.

    TenguPhule

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:

    Oh good god, isn’t there ANYONE who ISN’T involved w/ this mess?

    Iran. At least we can be certain of one thing in this crazy world. Iran would sooner skin Trump then work with him (in an illegal sense).

  193. 193.

    debbie

    @Roger Moore:

    It’s close, but I would prefer, “Mitch McConnell, you lying sack of shit.”

    @Baud:

    You’re right. I need to keep all my focus on the idiots on the road.

  194. 194.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Shana:

    It’s hilarious, in that mid-50s British kind of way. Guinness plays a Mediterranean cruise ship’s captain with a wife in each of two ports: a nice, slightly frumpy, slightly boring, but very nice blonde wife in (oddly enough, given today’s news) British-ruled Gibraltar; and a fiery, sizzling, spicy, party-girl gypsyish brunette wife in Spanish Morocco. It’s a lovely little film, despite an unavoidably heavy reliance on the more obvious tropes about women.

    ETA: The two wives are played by, respectively, Celia Johnson and Yvonne de Carlo!

  196. 196.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    @TenguPhule: okay…

    I can go w/ that… probably N Korea too… so there’s at least TWO in Rome who have not had their way w/ the daughter…

  197. 197.

    JPL

    Why oh why won’t the MSM address Kushner as son-in-law. It’s easy btw, Trump’s son-in-law Jared went to Iraq today Trump’s son-in-law did nothing for VA today, which he is supposedly overhauling.

  199. 199.

    TenguPhule

    And speaking of foreign problems and Trump, this weekend promises to suck extra hard with Xi and Trump at his damn Florida Grift on one side and North Korea on the other.

    I especially love this “We’ll go it alone if we have to” threat against NK.

    Warmonger Clinton my ass!

  200. 200.

    danielx

    @Baud:

    Villagers….want Republicans to be the daddy party, even if he’s an abusive mean drunk of a daddy. They assume that a certain portion of Republican voters and legislators are going to be wingnut assholes, because that’s just the way they are. Democrats, on the other hand, must be totally responsible at all times and their screwups are the worst ever. After all, somebody has to clean up the mess after any two term Republican president, so the janitors had better be above reproach.

  202. 202.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @JPL: he’s constantly being mocked– other WH staffers were passing around an Onion story making fun of him–, and all the media I see about it has a “What the fuck?” tone to it, but people don’t care. This is one I’m tempted to put on Dems, but it’s such a constant firehouse of bullshit I can sympathize with the difficulty of keeping up. Maybe this is a job for affable Uncle Joe and other popular retired folks. Barbara Mikulski and Bob Graham could write a joint op ed maybe. Barney Frank can turn that acid tongue on the Kushners.

  203. 203.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @JPL:

    Why oh why won’t the MSM address Kushner as son-in-law.

    I will say, despite their many faults, NPR is — so far, at least — doing a fine conscientious job of working in the modifier “son-in-law” every time they report on Jared.

  204. 204.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Shana:

    Possibly your public library has it. The DVD is available for purchase on Amazon, both singly and included in a multi-film “Alec Guinness Collection.”

  205. 205.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @TenguPhule:

    I especially love this “We’ll go it alone if we have to” threat against NK.

    “Fuck it! We’ll do it live!!”

  208. 208.

    dogwood

    Have a good evening everyone. I live in a part of the country where tonight’s basketball game is, in the words of Joe Biden, a Big Fucking Deal.

  210. 210.

    Jeffro

    @TenguPhule:

    I hope not. The good guys lost badly in that one.

    I keep expecting to see helicarriers falling from the sky…and that’s the good option here…

    …the bad one of course would be for them to stay up there, targeting…

  212. 212.

    Chris

    @SatanicPanic:

    Sanders continues to remind me of the various scumbags in the post Civil War North who insisted that the REALLY important thing was for white Yankees and Rebels to reconcile and were perfectly happy to throw black people under the bus.

  215. 215.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Chris: This is depressing, but accurate. I can’t understand this unless Sanders secretly has deplorable values…and I’m not talking about economic anxiety.

  216. 216.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @TenguPhule: The bad guys seem to be entrenched at the end of CA Civil War, it’s true. Ross seamlessly moves from the Hulk’s nemesis to Cap’s, and to some extent, even Tony Stark’s.

  217. 217.

    J R in WV

    @A Ghost to Most:

    We had a cat that learned that if he took mice into the bathtub, he didn’t have to break them to keep them from getting away. He could “play” with them for quite a bit in the tub, they couldn’t get away at all.

    Then one day, he came in with his head tucked down, and something in his mouth. It was a little bird, and when Timidthy let the bird go in the bathtub, it flew away!!!

    The look on his face was amazing. “It Didn’t Work”! [email protected]!!!! He was so disappointed. and I had to catch the little bird to throw it outside. This was like 40 years ago or more. Timidthy was smart, but timid, and the older cat gave him a terrible time as a kitten.

    I miss all those great kitties of our past… they were all great fuzzy people.

  220. 220.

    Chris

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Oh, I don’t think he’s proactively deplorable, in the sense that conservative voters and Donald Trump himself are. He just doesn’t give a shit about black people. Which is pretty much the story of race relations in America right there. Hardcore “real” racists in and of themselves don’t always have the numbers, but hardcore “real” racists + the white moderates MLK was complaining about, who’re more concerned with not upsetting their fellow whites = always enough to keep equality out of reach.

Comments are closed.