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You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Open Thread: All Putingate Needed Was A Saudi Connection…

Open Thread: All Putingate Needed Was A Saudi Connection…

by Anne Laurie|  April 3, 20175:52 pm| 220 Comments

This post is in: Dolt 45, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Republican Venality, Trump Crime Cartel, Not Normal

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WaPo SCOOP: Blackwater founder Erik Prince held secret Seychelles meeting to establish Trump-Putin back channel https://t.co/TBdvxNkeUk

— Matea Gold (@mateagold) April 3, 2017

Betsy deVos’s brother, Erik Prince, pops up again…

The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladi­mir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

The meeting took place around Jan. 11 — nine days before Trump’s inauguration — in the Seychelles islands in the Indian Ocean, officials said. Though the full agenda remains unclear, the UAE agreed to broker the meeting in part to explore whether Russia could be persuaded to curtail its relationship with Iran, including in Syria, a Trump administration objective that would likely require major concessions to Moscow on U.S. sanctions.

Though Prince had no formal role with the Trump campaign or transition team, he presented himself as an unofficial envoy for Trump to high-ranking Emiratis involved in setting up his meeting with the Putin confidant, according to the officials, who did not identify the Russian.

Prince was an avid supporter of Trump. After the Republican convention, he contributed $250,000 to Trump’s campaign, the national party and a pro-Trump super PAC led by GOP mega-donor Rebekah Mercer, records show. He has ties to people in Trump’s circle, including Stephen K. Bannon, now serving as the president’s chief strategist and senior counselor. Prince’s sister Betsy DeVos serves as education secretary in the Trump administration. And Prince was seen in the Trump transition offices in New York in December…

Prince is best known as the founder of Blackwater, a security firm that became a symbol of U.S. abuses in Iraq after a series of incidents including one in 2007 in which the company’s guards were accused — and later criminally convicted — of killing civilians in a crowded Iraqi square. Prince sold the firm, which was subsequently re-branded, but has continued building a private paramilitary empire with contracts across the Middle East and Asia.

Prince would probably have been seen as too controversial to serve in any official capacity in the Trump transition or administration. But his ties to Trump advisers, experience with clandestine work and relationship with the royal leaders of the Emirates — where he moved in 2010 amid mounting legal problems for his American business — would have positioned him as an ideal go-between…

We’ve come to the brink of global disaster so a handful of rich arseholes can live out their James Bond fantasies IRL.

Apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play what’s on the agenda for the evening?

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Reader Interactions

220Comments

  1. 1.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 3, 2017 at 6:02 pm

    I can’t decide whether it was incompetence and/or arrogance on their part, that they did such a bad job running the conspiracy.

  2. 2.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 3, 2017 at 6:04 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: Given that the primary funder of Prince’s current activities is the People’s Republic of China, I would go with both.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 3, 2017 at 6:05 pm

    Arab, but not Saudi, no?

  4. 4.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 3, 2017 at 6:06 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Yea, always go with the over when it comes to these people.

  5. 5.

    Mike J

    April 3, 2017 at 6:06 pm

    That is a large banner at Nats opening day.

  6. 6.

    Patricia Kayden

    April 3, 2017 at 6:07 pm

    The Trump regime is like a rotting onion. The more you peel, the nastier it smells. And we’ve only just begun.

  7. 7.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:07 pm

    Three cheers for Sen. Casey
    https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/849013777412575233”

    Who among us indeed

  8. 8.

    Roger Moore

    April 3, 2017 at 6:07 pm

    @A Ghost to Most:
    I suspect that the primary reason they did such a bad job of planning the conspiracy is that they thought they’d be in charge of the levers of power to the extent they could shut down any investigation, so subtlety was unnecessary. Whether you want to classify that as arrogance or incompetence is a tough call; it was arrogance enabled by incompetence.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 6:09 pm

    @Mike J: Ha!

    @JPL: Holy cow! Casey is as plain vanilla as you can get, and he is bringing it.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 6:09 pm

    Three cheers for the Dems and Schumer and the filibuster.

  11. 11.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 6:11 pm

    @Mike J:

    That will probably get more exposure and have longer legs than if he had thrown out the first pitch and been booed.

  12. 12.

    debbie

    April 3, 2017 at 6:11 pm

    Am I supposed to know who the guy on the left is?

  13. 13.

    Hunter Gathers

    April 3, 2017 at 6:13 pm

    Prince is best known as the founder of Blackwater, a security firm that became a symbol of U.S. abuses in Iraq after a series of incidents including one in 2007 in which the company’s guards were accused — and later criminally convicted — of killing civilians in a crowded Iraqi square.

    Whoever constructed that sentence should be kicked in the face. It’s like the conviction is a lesser charge than the accusation.

  14. 14.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:13 pm

    Tomorrow Sean Spicer will say Trump never met the guy.

  15. 15.

    debbie

    April 3, 2017 at 6:13 pm

    @JPL:

    I want someone to say this on the Senate floor.

  16. 16.

    different-church-lady

    April 3, 2017 at 6:13 pm

    @Roger Moore: No, I think it’s more likely they’re just assholes who believe they’re above the law.

  17. 17.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 3, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    “I am still angry about the treatment of [President Barack Obama’s nominee] Merrick Garland,” Blumenthal noted. “My Republican colleagues have said if the shoe were on the other foot, we would have done the same. It would have been as wrong if we had [refused to give Garland a hearing] as it was when they did.”

    “But my vote is not about Merrick Garland,” he continued. “It is about Neil Gorsuch and it is about the constitutional crisis that may well be looming as a potential threat to our democracy.”

    Blumenthal pointed out that FBI Director James Comey has testified that the agency is investigating ties between President Trump’s associates and the Russian interference in the U.S. elections.

    “The independence of our judicial branch has never been more threatened or more important,” the senator declared, citing impeachment proceedings against President Richard Nixon. “The possibility of a Supreme Court needing to enforce a subpoena against the president of the United States is far from idle speculation. It has happened before in United States vs. Nixon.”

    Richard Blumenthal, Gorsuch hearings

  18. 18.

    patrick II

    April 3, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    Next up: Boris and Natasha.

  19. 19.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:15 pm

    @debbie: In a perfect world, someone would say it on FOX, but mispronounce the name

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 6:15 pm

    @debbie:

    According to the video, he’s Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, the Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi.

    (Edited)

  21. 21.

    different-church-lady

    April 3, 2017 at 6:15 pm

    @JPL: “We don’t have a secret Arab meeting problem! YOU have a secret Arab meeting problem!”

  22. 22.

    Anne Laurie

    April 3, 2017 at 6:16 pm

    @debbie: Per the WaPo article, that’s “the crown prince of Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed al-Nahyan”…, who helpfully set up the meeting at his family’s Seychelles resort.

  23. 23.

    Barbara

    April 3, 2017 at 6:18 pm

    Does this mean Putin and Trump are secret Muslims?

  24. 24.

    debbie

    April 3, 2017 at 6:18 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    Thanks. He almost looks like a Peter Sellers impersonator. That, or he’s laughing at the very thought of Erik Prince.

  25. 25.

    mai naem mobile

    April 3, 2017 at 6:18 pm

    The whole Republican Party in DC and NY need to be lined up and shot for treason. What a bunch of loser traitors who put money and power above everything else.

  26. 26.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 6:20 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: Which of course raises the question nobody wants to think about.

    If the Supreme Court does a 5 v 4 against holding Trump and friends accountable for Treason, then what?

    What happens when every legal method of redress is denied? When justice itself is captive to the criminals?

    We are coming to that moment. And a lot faster then any of us was expecting.

  27. 27.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 6:21 pm

    @mai naem mobile: That line of reasoning is considered obscene and uncivil here. /not at all sarcastic, no sir, no sarcasm at all.

  28. 28.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    OT.. Who among of us doesn’t have a pet who waits until you finish cleaning to dump the toy basket, and send stuffed animals in the air. lol

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    @Barbara: No, Mammon worshippers only care about the color of their money.

  30. 30.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 3, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    Kennedy is not crazy, nor corrupt that I can tell.

  31. 31.

    germy

    April 3, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    Our friends at LGM have been chewing on the LA Times examination of our current … er… situation.

  32. 32.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    @Anne Laurie:
    @debbie:

    So, Prince and the Prince. Would indeed make a great Peter Sellers movie (with PS playing both parts, naturally).

  33. 33.

    geg6

    April 3, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    @JPL:

    Been proud of my senator quite a bit lately. He was never my cup of tea, though he’s miles better than Toomey and I certainly vote for him. But he’s taken some principled stands the last few months and has been pretty scathing toward Trump.

  34. 34.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 3, 2017 at 6:25 pm

    @JPL:
    My pets bring live animals in to use as toys.

    Eta live birds are the worst.

  35. 35.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 6:26 pm

    The rot that has been setting in over the past 37 years really, really, really needs to be addressed.

  36. 36.

    delk

    April 3, 2017 at 6:29 pm

    Two princes? ugh

  37. 37.

    Ella in New Mexico

    April 3, 2017 at 6:30 pm

    Meanwhile, we’re all supposed to be outraged that Susan Rice might have figured out who the traitors were who were talking to the Russian spies when she saw intelligence reports as NSA. Such a breach of privacy! Who cares that Erik Prince is committing yet another crime in order to help the Trump team get cozy with Russia.

    Which, incidentally, is what today’s “report” by that pig Mike Cernovich was designed to do-distract you from the real crimes, AGAIN.

  38. 38.

    Brachiator

    April 3, 2017 at 6:30 pm

    Once again, I strongly recommend the Guardian long read on Hillary Clinton.

    The destruction of Hillary Clinton: sexism, Sanders and the millennial feminists

    In this extract from her book, Susan Bordo asks how the most qualified candidate ever to run for president lost the seemingly unloseable election

    The author throws down one hell of a gauntlet:

    Before I go any further, let me put my own cards on the table. The destruction of Hillary Clinton, I firmly believe, while propelled by a perfect storm of sexism, partisan politics and media madness, was bookended by two immensely powerful assaults. One was the inappropriate, inaccurate and inflammatory interference in the general election by FBI director James Comey. The other occurred much earlier, during the primaries, but its consequences are felt even today. I know I will make some of my younger feminist colleagues (and other left leaners) furious, which was distressing to me then, and still is.

    These people, in so many ways, are my natural colleagues, and most are as upset as I am by Trump’s victory. But they played a big role in the thin edge (not a landslide, as Trump would have us believe) that gave Trump the election. For while Trump supporters hooted and cheered for their candidate, forgiving him every lie, every crime, every bit of disgusting behaviour, too many young Democrats made it very clear (in newspaper and internet interviews, in polls, and in the mainstream media) that they were only voting for Hillary Clinton as the lesser of two evils, “holding their noses”, tears still streaming down their faces over the primary defeat of the person they felt truly deserved their votes. Some didn’t vote at all. And as much as I am in agreement with many of his ideas, Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party – not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.

    There is also a piece by Trevor Timm on why Bernie Sanders represents the hope of the Democratic Party. I don’t agree, but it is worth the read also.

  39. 39.

    Mister Forkbeard

    April 3, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    @Brachiator: The Timm article likewise disappoints me. The Guardian article is fairly fantastic, though.

  40. 40.

    different-church-lady

    April 3, 2017 at 6:34 pm

    @Brachiator: I’m predicting 1.2 TBu or greater.

  41. 41.

    Mike in NC

    April 3, 2017 at 6:35 pm

    I think Trump would have offered Prince pretty much any job he wanted. Maybe even VP if Pence turned it down.

    Both are soulless bottom-feeders.

  42. 42.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 6:38 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: He was responsible for Bush and Citizens.

  43. 43.

    Patricia Kayden

    April 3, 2017 at 6:39 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: Good for the Democrats who are standing on principle to vote against Gorsuch. Trump is under investigation and doesn’t deserve any SCOTUS confirmations. Let’s take a page from Republicans and obstruct.

  44. 44.

    Princess

    April 3, 2017 at 6:39 pm

    Has anyone noticed that every time the other side tries to score a hit (today: Susan Rice) our side comes back with a new and crushing piece of information (today: Erik Prince, the Seychelles, the UAE and Trump/Putin)? It is almost like they are dribbling them out according to plan.

  45. 45.

    ? Martin

    April 3, 2017 at 6:41 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    I suspect that the primary reason they did such a bad job of planning the conspiracy is that they thought they’d be in charge of the levers of power to the extent they could shut down any investigation, so subtlety was unnecessary. Whether you want to classify that as arrogance or incompetence is a tough call; it was arrogance enabled by incompetence.

    I’d add a few other variable to that mix. Trump doesn’t do subtle and I suspect many of these other guys don’t as well. So they can only do as good of a job as they are capable of doing. Further, Trump simply doesn’t believe in institutions, and many of the folks around him believe that the existing institutions are incompetent, which only leads them to put more faith in your first item – that they would have authoritarian power – than they would really have. And I don’t think many of these guys are long-term planners anyway. Trump certainly isn’t. He’s the kind of guy that would set the cat on fire and then be bewildered that it ran around setting the house on fire – who could have anticipated that? Winning the election was the goal, and they couldn’t see beyond that point at all.

  46. 46.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:42 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: lol When I was younger our cat would do that. Finch the dog is polite enough to leave the injured field mice on the deck I certainly didn’t like it when he was tossing the thing up in the air though.

  47. 47.

    Miss Bianca

    April 3, 2017 at 6:42 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: Snakes. Live snakes are the worst.

  48. 48.

    Patricia Kayden

    April 3, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    @Mike in NC: Being a Rightwing Billionaire appears to be a winning qualification for many of Trump’s nominees. No other qualifications are necessary so Prince may yet be a nominee. Who knows?

  49. 49.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:44 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Earlier I was streaming MSNBC and someone mentioned that the dems don’t want to become just an obstructionist party. Well why the heck not, it worked for the repubs.

  50. 50.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:46 pm

    @Miss Bianca: ugh. Only lizards for my dog. (knock on wood) Finch does catch worms and lizards, and the young man next door said what do you expect, you named him after a bird.

  51. 51.

    Davis X. Machina

    April 3, 2017 at 6:46 pm

    I’m sure it was a harmless bit of mir i druzhba in the tropical sun.
    Reciprocal exchanges of fraternal greetings and expressions of peace between our two great peoples, Russian and American.
    That sort of thing…

  52. 52.

    Brachiator

    April 3, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    Also, too, as others have noted, the LA Times Editorials against Trump are essential reading. Today; Why Trump Lies.

    He gives every indication that he is as much the gullible tool of liars as he is the liar in chief.

    Oh, hell yeah!

  53. 53.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    April 3, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    @Princess:

    Now that you mention it, yes, that is intriguing.

  54. 54.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 6:49 pm

    Is this normal

    https://twitter.com/TheRickWilson/ status/849003993279873024

    Maybe someday conservative feeds won’t seem like click bait.
    Maybe someday soon.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 6:50 pm

    @JPL:

    someone mentioned that the dems don’t want to become just an obstructionist party. Well why the heck not, it worked for the repubs.

    Between 2008 and 2016, it was a common refrain that the Dems could not simply be against Republicans, but had to offer something positive for people to believe in. I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.

  56. 56.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 6:51 pm

    @Brachiator:

    It is excellent. On the strength of your recommendation I read the extract in the Guardian, and on the strength of that extract I pre-ordered the entire book. It should arrive in my Kindle app in a little over five hours.

  57. 57.

    frosty

    April 3, 2017 at 6:52 pm

    @geg6:

    Been proud of my senator quite a bit lately. He was never my cup of tea, though he’s miles better than Toomey and I certainly vote for him.

    I agree, I’ve been pleasantly suprised, not only by his stands, but how he’s speaking out publicly about them. I’m still PO’d that we didn’t get rid of Toomey.

  58. 58.

    Hunter Gathers

    April 3, 2017 at 6:53 pm

    @Baud:

    I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.

    It’s the burden of being a party that doesn’t represent Real (White) America. Unless we go full Klan, we’re going to have to work twice as hard and be half as black.

  59. 59.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: Oh yeah…

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 3, 2017 at 6:57 pm

    @JPL: Wilson’s an asshole, I just found out he made the ad that morphed Max Cleland into Saddam, but it’s a lot of fun watching him spew his bile at trump and the trumpkins

    I just noticed when I pasted that this wasn’t Wilson, but he retweeted LittlePod. Wilson and JPod are both dicks, but especially considering our mutual enemy, I’ll take the momentary alliance.

    John Podhoretz‏Verified account @ j podhoretz 2h2 hours ago
    Congratulations, Kellyanne, on crawling into the alt-Right dirt. You have now soiled yourself beyond recognition, and are beyond saving.

    she tweeted out the ratings for Cernovich’s 60 minutes interview and called it a big win, or some such Trumpese

  61. 61.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 6:57 pm

    @Baud:

    I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.

    Because the “Daddy” party was composed of special snowflakes and the “Mommy” party’s only role in life was to validate their special feelings.

    I say to hell with that. The “Daddies” can spend the next twenty years farming vegetables for the nation with a Mexican overseer watching over them with a shotgun.

  62. 62.

    Roger Moore

    April 3, 2017 at 6:59 pm

    @JPL:

    Well why the heck not, it worked for the repubs.

    Because the two parties aren’t just mirror images of each other. Obstruction is the essence of conservatism, since the whole point of conservatism is, as William F. Buckley said, to stand athwart history yelling stop. That isn’t good enough for liberals, who are actually trying to create something new.

  63. 63.

    hovercraft

    April 3, 2017 at 7:01 pm

    @Princess:
    “Has anyone noticed that every time the other side tries to score a hit (today: Susan Rice) our side comes back with a new and crushing piece of information”

    The old chestnut, “never pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrel”, is even more applicable here, don’t pick a fight with the IC, when you’re closet if packed with skeletons and dead boys. As ugly as this is, it’s going to get a whole lot uglier.

  64. 64.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 7:02 pm

    @Roger Moore: Sometimes you have to stop the crash landing before you can risk flying again.

  65. 65.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 7:04 pm

    @hovercraft:

    As ugly as this is, it’s going to get a whole lot uglier.

    And we’ll able to tell we’ve arrived when its white republicans that start flinging themselves out of high rise buildings after stabbing themselves multiple times in the back.

  66. 66.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    April 3, 2017 at 7:06 pm

    @Brachiator: Wilmur is the destruction of the Democratic party. Think we’ll win in 2018? Think again, not with Wilmur around telling everyone how terrible Democrats are.

  67. 67.

    Betty

    April 3, 2017 at 7:06 pm

    @JPL: Not sure exsctly how or when, but he has come to life in the age of Trump.

  68. 68.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 7:07 pm

    WASHINGTON – Today Republican National Committee (RNC) Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and RNC Finance Chairman Steve Wynn announced additional members of the RNC’s Finance leadership team:

    “I am delighted to announce the addition of these longtime friends of the Party and supporters of this administration to our Finance leadership team,” said Chairwoman McDaniel. “Elliott Broidy, Michael Cohen, and Louis DeJoy will serve as National Deputy Finance Chairmen [….]

    Mr. Cohen is currently the personal attorney to President Donald J. Trump. He served for more than a decade as Executive Vice President Special Counsel to President Trump at the Trump Organization and has sat on the boards of multiple Trump organizations, including Trump Productions, the Eric Trump Foundation, and the Miss Universe Organization. In addition to raising millions of dollars for his campaign, Mr. Cohen has been an active spokesperson and advisor for the President during his interest in seeking office since 2011.

    Link.

    God, I miss Nixon.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:08 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: That actually doesn’t seem out of the ordinary, even without grading on a steep curve.

  70. 70.

    Hunter Gathers

    April 3, 2017 at 7:08 pm

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: According to Wilmer, Trump’s fans aren’t racist. He knows. He’s been there. Wherever the fuck ‘there’ is.

  71. 71.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 7:10 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: All Republicans are Traitors and Spies until proven otherwise.

    /Might as well be the New American Motto

  72. 72.

    hovercraft

    April 3, 2017 at 7:12 pm

    @Baud:

    “Between 2008 and 2016, it was a common refrain that the Dems could not simply be against Republicans, but had to offer something positive for people to believe in. I don’t think I ever saw an explanation of why Dems had that special burden, but it’s not a new thing.”

    Democrats must always prove themselves worthy and every “mistake” is the greatest transgression ever. Republicans are the natural rulers of this country so they must be given all deference and any mistakes if they are even noted, are simply mistakes and not to be held against them. The GOP represents “real America”, so their actions are always made in the interests of America. Democrats hate America so everything we do is always suspect.

  73. 73.

    Cacti

    April 3, 2017 at 7:13 pm

    The other bombshell of the day:

    Carter Page met with at least one Russian spy in 2013 working out of their UN office in NYC.

  74. 74.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:16 pm

    I just noticed this part

    The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladi­mir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

    Incredible.

  75. 75.

    Cacti

    April 3, 2017 at 7:16 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Bernie and Trump pulled the con of the century.

    Convincing 46% of America and an EC majority that voting for the white guy was revolutionary.

  76. 76.

    SatanicPanic

    April 3, 2017 at 7:17 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: What drives me nuts- Shaun King does this too- is they’re like, “I go to rallies in Red States and there’s a hunger for progressive change there!” no shit guys, no one said there are no liberals in these states, if you’re constantly in front of favorable audiences you’re going to get an incomplete picture.

  77. 77.

    Mike in DC

    April 3, 2017 at 7:18 pm

    100 seats in 2018. Plus as many Senate seats and governorships as possible. It’s a matter of constitutional necessity.

  78. 78.

    Iowa Old Lady

    April 3, 2017 at 7:18 pm

    @? Martin: You’re right. Trump doesn’t believe in institutions. He’s more of a “l’etat, c’est moi” kind of guy.

  79. 79.

    PsiFighter37

    April 3, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    @Brachiator: Bernie as the hope of the Democratic Party? That tells me how much credibility that piece has.

  80. 80.

    Mike J

    April 3, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    @Cacti: The other bombshell? Only one? I thought it was that there is tape of Gorka supporting Hungarian Nazis. Forward has it.

  81. 81.

    Aleta

    April 3, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    A former campaign adviser for Donald Trump met with and passed documents to a Russian intelligence operative in New York City in 2013.

    The adviser, Carter Page, met with a Russian intelligence operative named Victor Podobnyy, who was later charged by the US government alongside two others for acting as unregistered agents of a foreign government. The charges, filed in January 2015, came after federal investigators busted a Russian spy ring that was seeking information on US sanctions as well as efforts to develop alternative energy. Page is an energy consultant.

    A court filing by the US government contains a transcript of a recorded conversation in which Podobnyy speaks with one of the other men busted in the spy ring, Igor Sporyshev, about trying to recruit someone identified as “Male-1.” BuzzFeed News has confirmed that “Male-1” is Page.

    The revelation of Page’s connection to Russian intelligence — which occurred more than three years before his association with Trump — is the most clearly documented contact to date between Russian intelligence and someone in Trump’s orbit.

    Buzzfeed

  82. 82.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    In the Obama administration, you couldn’t throw a cat and not find an honest man or woman.

    In the Trump malassstration, it’s reverse polarity time. They’re all criminals.

  83. 83.

    A Ghost to Most

    April 3, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    [email protected]Miss Bianca:
    Understandable. Wouldn’t bother me, but then I’m Abbie Normal.

  84. 84.

    lollipopguild

    April 3, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    @Cacti: It is/was “revoluntionary”, trump and co. want to put the country into a time machine and take us back to the 1950’s, 1920’s 1890’s, or 1850’s depending on your right wing fantasy.

  85. 85.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 7:21 pm

    @Baud:

    These days it doesn’t. But blurring the lines between the Executive and the purely political RNC by installing the president’s attorney as a high-level fundraiser for the party strikes me as another example of destroying traditional institutional norms. It’s not really surprising. It’s just another straw adding to the cumulative weight.

  86. 86.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 7:21 pm

    @Mike J: Meanwhile, the search for the “Whitey Tape” continues.

  87. 87.

    hovercraft

    April 3, 2017 at 7:21 pm

    @PsiFighter37:

    None.

  88. 88.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: Without the shapely legs and fine furniture.

  89. 89.

    joel hanes

    April 3, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    they thought they’d be in charge of the levers of power to the extent they could shut down any investigation

    Worked for Iran Contra.
    Worked for Walker in Wisconsin.

  90. 90.

    Hunter Gathers

    April 3, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    @SatanicPanic: If Sanders is the future of the party, then the Democratic Party is dead. People who are not descended from Europeans have targets on their backs. They face harassment, fear of deportation and being murdered for sport. But the big banks are the problem

    Goldman Sachs didn’t murder Trayvon Martin. Wilmer thinks that they did.

  91. 91.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @hovercraft: My nym. Over and over again.

    Wipe them out. All of them.

  92. 92.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: What I’m trying to say is that I’m not sure that was ever an institutional norm, as long as he really was Trump’s personal attorney and doesn’t do any governmental work. I know that’s a big assumption when it comes to Trump.

  93. 93.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 3, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @swiftonsecurity tweeted a funny. “Everyone knows the old data analysis saying: six degrees of Kevin Bacon and zero degrees from Russian intelligence”

  94. 94.

    Tokyokie

    April 3, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: And would this be the Michael Cohen with extensive ties to shadowy Russian businessmen?
    Why yes, yes it would.

  95. 95.

    joel hanes

    April 3, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @JPL:

    Tomorrow Sean Spicer will say Trump never met the guy.

    and then a cock will crow

  96. 96.

    MomSense

    April 3, 2017 at 7:24 pm

    Major drama all weekend at my house. Need to get caught up on all the news and rest.

  97. 97.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:25 pm

    @MomSense: Oh no. Nothing serious, I hope.

  98. 98.

    Brachiator

    April 3, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It is excellent. On the strength of your recommendation I read the extract in the Guardian, and on the strength of that extract I pre-ordered the entire book. It should arrive in my Kindle app in a little over five hours.

    Very cool. And that reminds me that I have to order the book myself.

  99. 99.

    Iowa Old Lady

    April 3, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    @Aleta: All these names and dates and events are jumbled together in my head. I know Josh Marshall is trying to keep a time line, but I feel like I need someone to establish what happened, when, and what links to what. There’s just so much.

  100. 100.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 7:27 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    All Republicans are Traitors and Spies until proven otherwise.

    That’ll be one long wait.

  101. 101.

    SatanicPanic

    April 3, 2017 at 7:27 pm

    @Hunter Gathers: I think big banks are part of a problem. But I’m also nervous about that too- it’s a short leap from “Goldman Sachs is evil” to “Jews control the banks!”. If you’re going to go after banks go after Wells Fargo or something. But yeah, racism is the big one and if Bernie can’t stop whitesplaining about it things are really going to get ugly.

  102. 102.

    eclare

    April 3, 2017 at 7:28 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Let us know how it is, I thought the extract was very well written.

  103. 103.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:32 pm

    @mai naem mobile:

    traitors who put money and power above everything else

    That’s almost short enough to put on a bumper sticker. I like it.

  104. 104.

    hovercraft

    April 3, 2017 at 7:34 pm

    @Baud:
    Cohen was/is, Twitlers personal attorney. He was in fact a registered democrat till he switched parties to join the RNC. His most famous moment in the sun was this, says who? http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DIAdGYYsG7yc&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiz4duLuYnTAhXBzlQKHcLbCmcQtwIIFTAA&sig2=8DrVu3_0F01DcouBccS96g&usg=AFQjCNEYb-16jeccxJ7MvXSRkwL0CdgBFA

  105. 105.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:36 pm

    @hovercraft: Glad we got rid of him.

  106. 106.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:36 pm

    @JPL: Who among us doesn’t have a kitty who comes running to use the litter box the minute you have cleaned it? Every. single. day.

  107. 107.

    magurakurin

    April 3, 2017 at 7:38 pm

    On Sanders… he ain’t the hope of nothing… he is old and will leave this mortal plane quite soon.

  108. 108.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 7:38 pm

    @WaterGirl: Good kitty!

  109. 109.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 7:40 pm

    @magurakurin: He’s hoping for a gig on Fox News.

  110. 110.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:41 pm

    @JPL: I say we fight with everything we have. If, in the end, obstructing everything is what it comes down to, I say obstruct everything. See how the pricks who did it for 8 years like being on the other side.

    They count on us to follow all the rules and always be mr. nice guy, but the stakes are high, there’s a time to fight, and this is it.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    April 3, 2017 at 7:41 pm

    @Brachiator:

    And as much as I am in agreement with many of his ideas, Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party – not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.

    Slow clap. Sing it, sister.

  112. 112.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 7:41 pm

    @JPL: The old Holmes slot?

  113. 113.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:41 pm

    @magurakurin: That would be awful. You know they’d say Hillary killed him.

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:42 pm

    @Brachiator:

    He gives every indication that he is as much the gullible tool of liars as he is the liar in chief.

    I liked that so much I had to see it in print one more time!

  115. 115.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    April 3, 2017 at 7:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    And as much as I am in agreement with many of his ideas, Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party – not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.

    And god damn him for it.

  116. 116.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): Kind of reminds me of how Barack Obama trickled out his endorsements bit by bit in 2007 and early 2008.

  117. 117.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 3, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    @Brachiator:

    There is also a piece by Trevor Timm on why Bernie Sanders represents the hope of the Democratic Party.

    And as soon as he joins it, I’ll listen to his opinion on the matter.

  118. 118.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:47 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: Heh.

  119. 119.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    @TenguPhule: JUMP! You Fuckers – Cole needs to pull out that most awesome graphic that was heretofore reserved for the banksters.

  120. 120.

    Roger Moore

    April 3, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    Sure. I don’t want to argue that the Democrats should never try to stop the Republicans, or even that it won’t be their main goal as long as the Republicans are in power, but it isn’t enough. The Republicans are fundamentally representing privileged people, and protecting that privilege will always be enough to win support from their base. The Democrats are representing the oppressed, so just keeping the privileged from expanding their power isn’t enough; they need to present a plan for improving things for the little guy.

  121. 121.

    eclare

    April 3, 2017 at 7:49 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: FTW!

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:50 pm

    @Baud: That was the part of that statement that I found so heartening!!!! I assume you mean incredible in a good way?

  123. 123.

    debbie

    April 3, 2017 at 7:50 pm

    Mitch McConnell: The only man on Earth who makes Donald J. Trump look honest in comparison.

  124. 124.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    April 3, 2017 at 7:51 pm

    @debbie: Another FTW !

  125. 125.

    Shana

    April 3, 2017 at 7:51 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Well, if you can’t get Alec Guiness….

  126. 126.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:51 pm

    @WaterGirl: I’m glad the information is coming out, but I didn’t mean it in a good or bad way — simply descriptive of the world we live in now.

  127. 127.

    Lurking Canadian

    April 3, 2017 at 7:52 pm

    The thing with Carter Page meeting Russian spies in 2013 strikes me as WAY more important than a meeting that took place in 2017. They for sure weren’t planning the coup in January 2017, since it had already taken place by then.

  128. 128.

    lamh36

    April 3, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    Shorter Tom Perez: “FUQ a sorry Dave”

    @daveweigel
    Tom Perez won’t apologize for saying Republicans “don’t give a shit about people”

    @TomPerez
    Tom Perez Retweeted Dave Weigel
    Sorry not sorry.

  129. 129.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I thought Brachiator was a guy. No? Have I really been wrong for all these years?

  130. 130.

    GregB

    April 3, 2017 at 7:53 pm

    This is like some shitty movie plot where all of the interational villains, despots, arms dealers, and moral free capitaists form a Spectre style group to bleed the world of resources and capital at the expense of all the weak and powerless people on the planet.

  131. 131.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:54 pm

    @WaterGirl: I never get that right.

  132. 132.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 3, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    @Baud: @magurakurin: That would be awful. You know they’d say Hillary killed him.

    You know if the flabby sugar addict has a grabber (and please, FSM, let it happen, not on a tacky gilt chair, but on throne, a la Elvis) the conspiracy theories will make chem trails and grassy knolls look like hard science.

    @Baud: according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

    You’ve got to wonder what kind of info foreign governments, including allies and “allies”, are sitting on and will release when it suits them.

  133. 133.

    debbie

    April 3, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:

    McConnell is really ticking me off. NPR played a couple excerpts of his Senate remarks, and I almost drove off the road. Someone either needs to stand up and (certainly more directly than Schumer and Leahy did) call bullshit on McConnell. They should introduce a proclamation proclaiming his bullshitiness. I know it wouldn’t get passed, but it would get entered into the record and could go viral on FB or Twitter. Shame his sorry Turtle Ass.

  134. 134.

    Millard Filmore

    April 3, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    @Baud:

    according to U.S., European and Arab officials.

    Does that mean all 3 IC communities are leaking that tidbit? Did this information come from simple not-at-all-secret inquiries and someone made a mistake in replying?

  135. 135.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    @GregB: Starring Donald Trump as Littlefinger.

  136. 136.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 3, 2017 at 7:56 pm

    @Brachiator: Bernie Sanders splintered and ultimately sabotaged the Democratic party –

    and he’s still doing it

  137. 137.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 7:58 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ll say it again. Holy crap, the upcoming gathering of the rogues gallery in Chicago is going to be awful.

  138. 138.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 7:59 pm

    @Baud: I read that blurb above and thought “wow, other countries have our backs on this, they will make sure it doesn’t get buried”. I haven’t felt as hopeful since Nov 8 as I do tonight.

  139. 139.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:00 pm

    @WaterGirl: I go up and down, as I’m sure everyone does.

  140. 140.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 8:00 pm

    @lamh36: I would have been so disappointed if he had apologized.

  141. 141.

    hovercraft

    April 3, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    @lamh36:

    Which one of these sounds like the “establishment” ?

    “Tom Perez won’t apologize for saying Republicans “don’t give a shit about people””

    or

    “Bernie Sanders Says Trump Voters Not ‘Deplorables,’ Hillary Clinton to Blame for Election Loss”

    Fuck him, as @Major Major Major Major: said, shit or get off the fucking pot.

  142. 142.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    @Baud: I tried to make it easy on you. :-)

  143. 143.

    BBA

    April 3, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    @debbie: You’re assuming he has shame. Rookie mistake.

  144. 144.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    April 3, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: No way man, he tweets mean things about Trump every once in a while. /s

  145. 145.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    @WaterGirl: I appreciate that.

  146. 146.

    lollipopguild

    April 3, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    @Baud: It depends on what people say. People are going to be paying attention to everything that is said and there will be push back on anyone who does not spend their time and energy going after trump.

  147. 147.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:03 pm

    @debbie: You need to stop listening to NPR in the car before you hurt yourself or someone else.

  148. 148.

    Roger Moore

    April 3, 2017 at 8:03 pm

    @debbie:

    Someone either needs to stand up and (certainly more directly than Schumer and Leahy did) call bullshit on McConnell.

    Is this good enough?:

    When McConnell deprived President Obama of a vote on Garland, it was a nuclear option. The rest is fallout.— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) April 4, 2017

  149. 149.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:04 pm

    @lollipopguild: Have you seen the line up? I mean, they will go after Trump, but they will also go after us.

  150. 150.

    different-church-lady

    April 3, 2017 at 8:04 pm

    @hovercraft:

    Bernie Sanders Says Trump Voters Not ‘Deplorables,’

    Dude still thinks he can put a harness that monster, eh?

  151. 151.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    April 3, 2017 at 8:05 pm

    @Baud: A real shit show. Why I bet they even tell us this Russian thing is just a way to distract us from how awful the Democrats really are.

  152. 152.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:06 pm

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: I don’t think Greenwald is on the speakers’ list.

  153. 153.

    lollipopguild

    April 3, 2017 at 8:07 pm

    @Baud: A lot of people are very tired of Bernie’s both side bs. He and any others who spend the time attacking the dems and Hilz are going to regret it.

  154. 154.

    Aleta

    April 3, 2017 at 8:07 pm

    Happening this weekend in Fla, negotiations said to be organized by Kushner

    China wants the Trump administration to adopt its concept of “a new model of great power relations,” Xi’s proposal to avoid conflict and focus on cooperation. China also wants Trump to endorse Xi’s signature “One Belt, One Road” initiative, China’s massive regional infrastructure and development project. China also seeks U.S. noninterference in issues it considers core interests, including Taiwan, Tibet and its internal affairs.

    In exchange, the Chinese are prepared to offer as-yet-unspecified investment proposals to help advance Trump’s domestic agenda of creating jobs. Kushner and Cui have kept in close communication and the Chinese leadership has come to rely on the Kushner channel, which was used to help arrange the coming summit.

    … Can someone please explain to Trump and Kushner that one of the ways that China can devalue its currency is by buying up American assets? A world where the U.S. simultaneously increases exports to China and foreign direct investment from China is not next to impossible.

    … A nascent grand strategy is becoming visible for the Trump administration, and it’s a rather disturbing one. The grand strategy is that the administration demonstrates a willingness to rent out its foreign policy to any interested investor. So long as Trump can proclaim some glossy, high-profile investments, he is willing to trade off U.S. interests in the Pacific Rim or Europe or wherever. Which means that countries such as China can have their way with Trump so long as they meet the minimum price, which is a few promised billions.

    This is a dangerous and stupid game to play. Current shifts in foreign policy can have long-lasting effects; announcements of investments can be followed by non-implementation. It also guarantees that all of America’s allies in the Pacific Rim will gravitate closer to China than the United States.

    I don’t mean to suggest that a new Cold War with China is a better outcome. … But it is hard not to conclude that Trump and Kushner are spectacularly out of their depth on these issues. Worse, Trump displays no metacognition whatsoever…. He and Kushner will therefore sell off core national interests and investments at cut-rate prices.

    That’s usually what happens when neophytes bargain with experts.

    Wapo article, using quotes from several places

  155. 155.

    Mnemosyne

    April 3, 2017 at 8:08 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Those aren’t his words — it’s a pull quote from the story, which was written by a woman.

  156. 156.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 3, 2017 at 8:09 pm

    @Roger Moore: it’s definitely true that we can’t be like the republicans–say no to everything but forget to have a positive agenda the party agrees on for when we eventually have power–but I don’t think we’ve got that problem. More now than in 2008, for sure, but we know for example what an infrastructure bill would look like.

  157. 157.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:09 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    I know you know this, but for the record

    “I know there are only 60 days left to make our case — and don’t get complacent, don’t see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, well, he’s done this time. We are living in a volatile political environment. You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America.”

    “But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.

    She’s a monster.

  158. 158.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Wipe them out. All of them.

    Shrill!

    /also considering the source of that quote…..

    I’m good with the Sam Vimes version on Carcer.

  159. 159.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    April 3, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    @Baud: Yeah, but she didn’t really mean it.

  160. 160.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:12 pm

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: She wanted to turn them all into food.

  161. 161.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:13 pm

    @Aleta:

    In exchange, the Chinese are prepared to offer as-yet-unspecified investment proposals to help advance Trump’s domestic agenda of creating jobs.

    It sounds like China is playing the Trump and Trump is playing the rube who buys into Trump University.

    Surely, he can’t be that stupid………………..oh bugger.

  162. 162.

    Sab

    April 3, 2017 at 8:14 pm

    @TenguPhule: They Supreme CT cannot do a 5/4 decision for the foreseeable future since they only have 8 justices. Hopefully we can keep it that way for a couple of years.

  163. 163.

    Roger Moore

    April 3, 2017 at 8:14 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:
    It’s great that we have a positive agenda beyond stopping Trump. Now we have to get the word out so voters don’t have an excuse to claim both parties are the same.

  164. 164.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 3, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    @Sab:

    They Supreme CT cannot do a 5/4 decision for the foreseeable future since they only have 8 justices

    The republicans seem pretty convinced they’ll have 9 real soon.

  165. 165.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 8:16 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    When McConnell deprived President Obama of a vote on Garland, it was a nuclear option. The rest is fallout.— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) April 4, 2017

    Brilliant line from Schiff, and bravo! to him. But why does it show tomorrow’s date?

  166. 166.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:16 pm

    @Major Major Major Major: I’ll be shocked if they can’t find the votes to blow up the filibuster.

  167. 167.

    different-church-lady

    April 3, 2017 at 8:16 pm

    @Baud: She got the ratios really really wrong.

  168. 168.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 3, 2017 at 8:16 pm

    @Roger Moore: we tried that, but everybody knew Hillary didn’t really mean it. Now, a white man saying the same things, that would’ve been the ticket.

  169. 169.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:16 pm

    @joel hanes: But enough about Bannon’s masturbation.

  170. 170.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 3, 2017 at 8:17 pm

    @lamh36: Go Tom!

  171. 171.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:17 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Now we have to get the word out so voters don’t have an excuse to claim both parties are the same.

    Never stopped them before. Doubt it will change now.

  172. 172.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:18 pm

    @different-church-lady: If I fault her for anything, it’s for believing in the goodness of people too much.

  173. 173.

    hovercraft

    April 3, 2017 at 8:18 pm

    @Baud:
    Why do you insist on giving us the entire quote in context, no less!! That’s no fun, it takes away from the attack that she thinks everyone who supported him is deplorable. It’s 2017 and at least half the country will tell you that Obama said that “you didn’t build that”, in the context of saying that all progress is from government or some such.

  174. 174.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:20 pm

    @hovercraft: If she had only said the first paragraph, there should have been no controversy in a rational world. That she said the second paragraph and there still was outrage is obscene and will not be forgotten.

  175. 175.

    Jeffro

    April 3, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    @GregB:

    This is like some shitty movie plot where all of the interational villains, despots, arms dealers, and moral free capitaists form a Spectre style group to bleed the world of resources and capital at the expense of all the weak and powerless people on the planet.

    They remind me, almost too perfectly, of Hydra infiltrating S.H.I.E.L.D. in Cap 2

  176. 176.

    FlipYrWhig

    April 3, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    @SatanicPanic:

    What drives me nuts- Shaun King does this too- is they’re like, “I go to rallies in Red States and there’s a hunger for progressive change there!”

    SUCH a dumb gambit, and, yes, they do it all the time. Yeah, they have cities and college towns in every state, dude.

  177. 177.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    @Jeffro: I hope not. The good guys lost badly in that one.

  178. 178.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    @Shana:

    Ha! How I would love to see Kind Hearts and Coronets again on the big screen (I own it on DVD) — or The Captain’s Paradise (ditto), in which he plays just one character but with two personae.

  179. 179.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:25 pm

    @lollipopguild: I’ll keep my fingers crossed.

  180. 180.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    April 3, 2017 at 8:28 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh good god, isn’t there ANYONE who ISN’T involved w/ this mess?

    “Okay. Here’s what we’ve got. The Rand Corporation in conjunction with the saucer people…Under the supervision of the reverse vampires are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner!”

    Is there anyone in Rome who has not slept with my daughter?!

  181. 181.

    Shana

    April 3, 2017 at 8:30 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’ve never seen The Captain’s Paradise. I’ll have to check it out.

  182. 182.

    Aleta

    April 3, 2017 at 8:32 pm

    @Baud: The mood swings forced by this fiasco are getting to be regular as tides. Lately though the dives seem harder than ever to bear, for me.

  183. 183.

    sanjeevs

    April 3, 2017 at 8:32 pm

    For anyone whos lived in a developing country that trip to Iraq is concerning.
    One-on-one meetings between the scion of the ruling family and the head of the army. Not good

  184. 184.

    Nappy

    April 3, 2017 at 8:32 pm

    Interesting

  185. 185.

    efgoldman

    April 3, 2017 at 8:33 pm

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Wilmer thinks that they did.

    I don’t think Wilmer has thought about it at all.
    He can’t morph into 21st century Harold Stassen quickly enough.

  186. 186.

    Brachiator

    April 3, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    @WaterGirl: I am a guy. The plaudits were for the author of the Guardian article.

  187. 187.

    LurkerNoLonger

    April 3, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    @GregB: They can try. But have you noticed in those movies…the bad guys never win.

  188. 188.

    danielx

    April 3, 2017 at 8:36 pm

    @A Ghost to Most:

    I won’t say I’ve gotten used to the sound of flying critters bouncing off venetian blinds, but I’ve heard it enough to not mistake it for anything else. On the other hand, eventually they do fly out if you leave an open window or door. Worse is coming downstairs and finding a feline lying in a bunch of bloody feathers on the kitchen floor, looking sublimely smug and satisfied.

  189. 189.

    dogwood

    April 3, 2017 at 8:37 pm

    @geg6:
    I’m late to this thread, but Bob Casey has always struck me as a very good person and the fight against Trumpism isn’t going to be won with ideology alone.

  190. 190.

    Baud

    April 3, 2017 at 8:38 pm

    When this is all over, I’m looking forward to taking the Trump Treason World Tour.

  191. 191.

    Major Major Major Major

    April 3, 2017 at 8:39 pm

    @efgoldman: to the extent he thinks about race at all he considers it irrelevant. All struggle is class struggle.

  192. 192.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:39 pm

    @Thru the Looking Glass…:

    Oh good god, isn’t there ANYONE who ISN’T involved w/ this mess?

    Iran. At least we can be certain of one thing in this crazy world. Iran would sooner skin Trump then work with him (in an illegal sense).

  193. 193.

    debbie

    April 3, 2017 at 8:40 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    It’s close, but I would prefer, “Mitch McConnell, you lying sack of shit.”

    @Baud:

    You’re right. I need to keep all my focus on the idiots on the road.

  194. 194.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    @Shana:

    It’s hilarious, in that mid-50s British kind of way. Guinness plays a Mediterranean cruise ship’s captain with a wife in each of two ports: a nice, slightly frumpy, slightly boring, but very nice blonde wife in (oddly enough, given today’s news) British-ruled Gibraltar; and a fiery, sizzling, spicy, party-girl gypsyish brunette wife in Spanish Morocco. It’s a lovely little film, despite an unavoidably heavy reliance on the more obvious tropes about women.

    ETA: The two wives are played by, respectively, Celia Johnson and Yvonne de Carlo!

  195. 195.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    @LurkerNoLonger: CA Civil War says you are wrong.

  196. 196.

    Thru the Looking Glass...

    April 3, 2017 at 8:43 pm

    @TenguPhule: okay…

    I can go w/ that… probably N Korea too… so there’s at least TWO in Rome who have not had their way w/ the daughter…

  197. 197.

    JPL

    April 3, 2017 at 8:43 pm

    Why oh why won’t the MSM address Kushner as son-in-law. It’s easy btw, Trump’s son-in-law Jared went to Iraq today Trump’s son-in-law did nothing for VA today, which he is supposedly overhauling.

  198. 198.

    Shana

    April 3, 2017 at 8:45 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: Sounds like it’s right in my wheelhouse. Love the Ealing Studios comedies.

    ETA; looks like it’s not available through Netflix

  199. 199.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:45 pm

    And speaking of foreign problems and Trump, this weekend promises to suck extra hard with Xi and Trump at his damn Florida Grift on one side and North Korea on the other.

    I especially love this “We’ll go it alone if we have to” threat against NK.

    Warmonger Clinton my ass!

  200. 200.

    danielx

    April 3, 2017 at 8:46 pm

    @Baud:

    Villagers….want Republicans to be the daddy party, even if he’s an abusive mean drunk of a daddy. They assume that a certain portion of Republican voters and legislators are going to be wingnut assholes, because that’s just the way they are. Democrats, on the other hand, must be totally responsible at all times and their screwups are the worst ever. After all, somebody has to clean up the mess after any two term Republican president, so the janitors had better be above reproach.

  201. 201.

    TenguPhule

    April 3, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    @Thru the Looking Glass…: And one of them is the city’s resident fat madman. So she merely has almost all of the diseases to be found in the city instead of all of them.

  202. 202.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    April 3, 2017 at 8:49 pm

    @JPL: he’s constantly being mocked– other WH staffers were passing around an Onion story making fun of him–, and all the media I see about it has a “What the fuck?” tone to it, but people don’t care. This is one I’m tempted to put on Dems, but it’s such a constant firehouse of bullshit I can sympathize with the difficulty of keeping up. Maybe this is a job for affable Uncle Joe and other popular retired folks. Barbara Mikulski and Bob Graham could write a joint op ed maybe. Barney Frank can turn that acid tongue on the Kushners.

  203. 203.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 8:49 pm

    @JPL:

    Why oh why won’t the MSM address Kushner as son-in-law.

    I will say, despite their many faults, NPR is — so far, at least — doing a fine conscientious job of working in the modifier “son-in-law” every time they report on Jared.

  204. 204.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 8:53 pm

    @Shana:

    Possibly your public library has it. The DVD is available for purchase on Amazon, both singly and included in a multi-film “Alec Guinness Collection.”

  205. 205.

    SiubhanDuinne

    April 3, 2017 at 8:54 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    I especially love this “We’ll go it alone if we have to” threat against NK.

    “Fuck it! We’ll do it live!!”

  206. 206.

    beef

    April 3, 2017 at 8:56 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Because California’s the future.

  207. 207.

    lollipopguild

    April 3, 2017 at 8:57 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: They should carve that on Bill’o gravestone.

  208. 208.

    dogwood

    April 3, 2017 at 8:58 pm

    Have a good evening everyone. I live in a part of the country where tonight’s basketball game is, in the words of Joe Biden, a Big Fucking Deal.

  209. 209.

    Vhh

    April 3, 2017 at 9:01 pm

    @hovercraft: He is also married to a Ukrainian woman whose father is a real estate mogul in Moscow.

  210. 210.

    Jeffro

    April 3, 2017 at 9:04 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    I hope not. The good guys lost badly in that one.

    I keep expecting to see helicarriers falling from the sky…and that’s the good option here…

    …the bad one of course would be for them to stay up there, targeting…

  211. 211.

    WaterGirl

    April 3, 2017 at 9:09 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Got it! thanks

  212. 212.

    Chris

    April 3, 2017 at 9:10 pm

    @SatanicPanic:

    Sanders continues to remind me of the various scumbags in the post Civil War North who insisted that the REALLY important thing was for white Yankees and Rebels to reconcile and were perfectly happy to throw black people under the bus.

  213. 213.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 3, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Rhinelander, Wi, is very different from Madison.

  214. 214.

    LurkerNoLonger

    April 3, 2017 at 9:39 pm

    @TenguPhule: I’m trying to stay positive.

  215. 215.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    @Chris: This is depressing, but accurate. I can’t understand this unless Sanders secretly has deplorable values…and I’m not talking about economic anxiety.

  216. 216.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 3, 2017 at 9:45 pm

    @TenguPhule: The bad guys seem to be entrenched at the end of CA Civil War, it’s true. Ross seamlessly moves from the Hulk’s nemesis to Cap’s, and to some extent, even Tony Stark’s.

  217. 217.

    J R in WV

    April 3, 2017 at 10:44 pm

    @A Ghost to Most:

    We had a cat that learned that if he took mice into the bathtub, he didn’t have to break them to keep them from getting away. He could “play” with them for quite a bit in the tub, they couldn’t get away at all.

    Then one day, he came in with his head tucked down, and something in his mouth. It was a little bird, and when Timidthy let the bird go in the bathtub, it flew away!!!

    The look on his face was amazing. “It Didn’t Work”! [email protected]!!!! He was so disappointed. and I had to catch the little bird to throw it outside. This was like 40 years ago or more. Timidthy was smart, but timid, and the older cat gave him a terrible time as a kitten.

    I miss all those great kitties of our past… they were all great fuzzy people.

  218. 218.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    April 4, 2017 at 3:30 am

     .

  219. 219.

    TenguPhule

    April 4, 2017 at 4:00 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: And Agents of Shield just kept piling on the bad news in the universe.

    And that’s still better then what they did to the mutants in X-men.

  220. 220.

    Chris

    April 4, 2017 at 9:23 am

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Oh, I don’t think he’s proactively deplorable, in the sense that conservative voters and Donald Trump himself are. He just doesn’t give a shit about black people. Which is pretty much the story of race relations in America right there. Hardcore “real” racists in and of themselves don’t always have the numbers, but hardcore “real” racists + the white moderates MLK was complaining about, who’re more concerned with not upsetting their fellow whites = always enough to keep equality out of reach.

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