Nothing in this story indicates anything improper whatsoever nor does it explain or justify Nunes's bizarre conduct. https://t.co/tlMh2TduMR
— Susan Hennessey (@Susan_Hennessey) April 3, 2017
Bloomberg‘s Eli Lake, who seems to have become the Congressman Nunes whisperer, reports:
White House lawyers last month discovered that the former national security adviser Susan Rice requested the identities of U.S. persons in raw intelligence reports on dozens of occasions that connect to the Donald Trump transition and campaign, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.
The pattern of Rice’s requests was discovered in a National Security Council review of the government’s policy on “unmasking” the identities of individuals in the U.S. who are not targets of electronic eavesdropping, but whose communications are collected incidentally. Normally those names are redacted from summaries of monitored conversations and appear in reports as something like “U.S. Person One.”
The National Security Council’s senior director for intelligence, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, was conducting the review, according to two U.S. officials who spoke with Bloomberg View on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss it publicly. In February Cohen-Watnick discovered Rice’s multiple requests to unmask U.S. persons in intelligence reports that related to Trump transition activities. He brought this to the attention of the White House General Counsel’s office, who reviewed more of Rice’s requests and instructed him to end his own research into the unmasking policy.
…The standard for senior officials to learn the names of U.S. persons incidentally collected is that it must have some foreign intelligence value, a standard that can apply to almost anything. This suggests Rice’s unmasking requests were likely within the law.
Here’s an important question: who ordered Cohen-Watnick, a junior DIA analyst promoted to a senior directorship on the National Security Staff by former National Security Advisor LTG Flynn way above his level of expertise and experience, to conduct this review? Was it LTG Flynn before he was fired on 13 February 2017? Was it the now reassigned KT McFarland? Was it someone above Cohen-Watnick in the Administration chain of command? This is an important question that needs to be answered! Unless Cohen-Watnick had a need to know this – as in was ordered to conduct such a review – as part of his duties as the NSC’s Senior Director for Intelligence Policy, his accessing of this material is a violation of classification and compartmentalization protocols. As is his dissemination of such information.
.@EliLake Backers of Cohen-Watnick insist he was conducting a review, not reverse-engineering POTUS tweets. Other sources contradict that.
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) April 3, 2017
Bradley Moss, an attorney specializing in cases regarding security clearances and national security, has made a most prescient observation and prediction:
How is it a scandal for the NatSec Advisor to request info on a matter of counterintelligence significance? https://t.co/INW8ybbzWo
— Bradley P. Moss, Esq (@BradMossEsq) April 3, 2017
…. now we're going to have two years of investigations into Susan Rice's unmasking requests, aren't we?
— Bradley P. Moss, Esq (@BradMossEsq) April 3, 2017
Noah Rothman has made an important discovery and is reporting that:
The biggest unspoken detail in Eli Lake's report: someone in the White House counsel's office really is talking to Mike Cernovich.
— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) April 3, 2017
Rothman is referring to this Medium post from yesterday, 2 APR 2017, by Mike Cernovich. It now appears that Cernovich’s claims that he, at least, and other prominent members of the alt-right have ongoing contacts with senior White House/Administration officials. What Rothman is reporting, that, at least, Cernovich’s ties are accurate, this is important news. It shows that the white nationalist/white supremacist/neo-NAZI community that goes by the more respectable name the alt-right actually has a solid connection to the new Administration. This is disturbing on many levels. Not least is where the flow of information went: Cernovich, Zero Hedge, InfoWars, Gateway Pundit.
— Jay W. Cobb (@JayWCobb) April 3, 2017
What is even more interesting is that someone seems to have fed the info to Fox and Friends, which is where the President saw it:
Such amazing reporting on unmasking and the crooked scheme against us by @foxandfriends. "Spied on before nomination." The real story.
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 3, 2017
Back to Susan Hennessy a former attorney in the US Intelligence Community and now a Senior Fellow at Brookings:
Trump team's apparent plan is to try to make this about specific Obama officials, to provide attack targets and further muddy the waters.
— Susan Hennessey (@Susan_Hennessey) April 3, 2017
But what we're seeing here is US officials doing jobs to respond to what had markers of a counterintelligence threat: the Trump campaign.
— Susan Hennessey (@Susan_Hennessey) April 3, 2017
OF COURSE the National Security Advisor had questions about SIGINT regarding Trump's foreign ties.#duhhttps://t.co/96Lgqfabm5
— John Schindler (@20committee) April 3, 2017
@BradMossEsq Correct
— John Schindler (@20committee) April 3, 2017
A lot of unpleasant material is going to be thrown at a lot of walls today in very short order.
Stay frosty!
BlueDWarrior
The damaging this about this is that 30-35% of the voting public will nod their heads and go “Yes, it’s all the fault of liberals and Democrats, if only we could get them out of politics forever…”
[Which doesn’t even speak to the 1-2% who go “If only we could get rid of them entirely…”]
Humboldtblue
And an update from a thread below, McConnell will need nuclear option. Feinstein is a no on Gorsuch and he’s not going to get eight Dems.
Hunter Gathers
Breaking: Klan members refuse to stop fucking that chicken.
D58826
Come on Adam get real here. If Obama/Clinton(either one) had been Capt. of the Titanic the GOP would spend 4 years investigating why perfectly good liquid water freezes into an iceberg.
Jeffro
Hennessy is EXTREMELY on point in observing that Trumpov & Co will try to personalize this against specific Obama admin officials…it’s the only thing they know how to do, and it’s the only thing they can do at this point.
It’s the political equivalent of – lacking either the facts or the argument – of “pounding the table”.
Adam L Silverman
I made a slight addition to the original post. For those not wanting to scroll back up:
ruemara
Why the fuck not? They’ll have 3 Greenwald screeds on how this proves Obama and the Deep State were abusing power, then 7 Intercept both sides articles. Not to mention the usual right wing suspects turning it into clear proof of SPYING ON TRUMP. There is no downside to it.
Major Major Major Major
Well maybe your names wouldn’t have come up in a bunch of anti-Russia intel sweeps if you weren’t in bed with the fucking Russians, you fucking half-wits.
Mike in DC
Trump down to 42 in Rasmussen. 74 days. Obama’s lowest was 41. Bush’s was 32, so he’s got a ways to go to get to “lowest ever”. Trumps lowest Gallup matches Reagan and LBJ at 35. Every member of the under 30 percent club presaged a president of the opposite party in the next term.
Chris
@BlueDWarrior:
Yep. Of course, the cult never believed/cared that Trump might have had Russian ties, much too invested in “the Democrats are the focus of evil in the modern world” for that. This is just giving them the talking points for a position they held anyway.
Another Scott
Warner is no on Cloture, no on Confirmation for Gorsuch.
Good.
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
I had actually planned to do a penetration at all levels explanatory post today, but that will have to wait a bit.
Hoodie
I think they push this at their own risk. Rice was hunting spies and traitors.
pseudonymous in nc
Eli Lake has been burned at least once by Nunes. To keep reporting like this, and not question Cohen-Watnick’s bona fides, he’s either stupid or craven.
Jeffro
@Another Scott: We’re pretty solidly blue these days here in the Commonwealth…props to Warner for recognizing that!
Adam L Silverman
Jeffro
@Hoodie:
She’s tough and one way or another, she’s going to say those very words, quite publicly.
Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.
Trump’s support even among his base is eroding; he’s lost about 1/5th of his “strong supporters” and “kept his campaign promises” voters on Rasmussen (!). The House Free Dumb Caucasians quietly announced Friday any future health care bill must remove guaranteed issue and EHB, aka double deal-breakers in the Senate, so the ACA’s replacement is not getting signed for a while. Another broken promise, and his continued reassurances that he’ll get a deal done, he never really wanted a vote, etc. will continue to make him look impotent.
He doesnt seem to have any other moves besides “rile up the base with more inflammatory BS,” which works better in the all-hypothetical realm of campaigns, but tends to look desperate and defensive once you actually have power.
lollipopguild
@Jeffro: The term i am used to is “dazzle them with bullshit”.
randy khan
@Humboldtblue:
It’s excellent to hear that DiFi is with the program on Gorsuch. Still, Menendez is still on the fence, so any jackals who happen to live in New Jersey ought to call him to ask him why he’s even considering supporting someone so heartless as to think a truck driver should freeze to death and that autistic children shouldn’t get an appropriate education.
And while we’re at it, I think anyone represented by a female Republican Senator (I’m looking at you, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski) should call her and ask how she feels about Gorsuch refusing to meet with female Democratic Senators, and if they’re willing to put up with that kind of lack of respect for other Senators.
pseudonymous in nc
@Jeffro:
And an African-American woman is the perfect target for a) the drooling magahats; b) dixie shitheads like Gowdy.
randy khan
@Another Scott:
I called this morning, so I’m going to claim I pushed him off the fence.
BlueDWarrior
@Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.: you can say that is the entire Republican play right now, to ensure that 30-35% of the voting base is radicalized to the point of insanity and cult-like loyalty; and the other 65-70% is so depressed about everything, they just give up and let it burn.
Adam L Silverman
@pseudonymous in nc: My favorite was watching David Corn let him have it with both barrels on MSNBC last week:
Goku
@BlueDWarrior:
Right back at ya fascists
Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.
@BlueDWarrior: see MikeinDC and my post below – Trump is even losing his base now; his supprt among them had been pretty firm until about 3-4 weeks ago (even as his overall approval numbers nosedived). The AHCA c*ckup and fake wiretap stuff seem to have really hurt him.
Thoroughly Pizzled
Susan Rice was an underrated target of Republican bullshit. They really hated her. I WONDER WHY THAT MAY BE?
D58826
@Chris: The really sad thing is Der Fuhrer’s mob ties have been fairly well known for years. That should have been more than enough to stop his primary campaign cold let alone the fall campaign and election. We don’t need any level of security to know about this.
In the mean time the GOP/RWNJ/Fox are still going on about the ‘crooked’ Clinton Foundation.
gene108
@Hoodie:
Whose going to stick-up for Rice, in the face of Fox and Friends and the rest of the right-wing noise machine?
The track record of the MSM correcting the right-wing noise machine is pretty non-existent. The MSM usually joins in because, if all those serious news hounds at Fox News are talking about it, there must be a huge story there.
Chyron HR
@Adam L Silverman:
“Dear Balloon Juice, I never thought this would happen to me…”
pseudonymous in nc
Haberman’s “[b]ackers of Cohen-Watnick insist he was conducting a review, not reverse-engineering POTUS tweets. Other sources contradict that.” is telling.
“Working toward the Führer” manifests itself in all kinds of ways, from ground-level CBP/ICE officers deciding that their job is to lock up Suspicious Foreigns, up to the Flynn Gang in NSC deciding to sift through intel records and launder them to Cernovich and Faux & Friends so that The Boss will tweet about them.
JMG
Are Republicans sure they want to compel sworn public testimony by Rice, an official who to clear her own name could detail which Trump campaign officials were caught talking to Russian intelligence? Who could just leak it to any one of 10,000 reporters if she chose?
gene108
@pseudonymous in nc:
and (c) Rice is already tainted because she went on the Sunday shows, on 9/12/2011 and “lied her ass off” (in their minds) about the attack on the Benghazi consulate the day before.
The shit-storm thrown at Rice back then kept her from being considered for a Cabinet position, that required Senate confirmation.
Major Major Major Major
@pseudonymous in nc: given his recent reporting I can confirm he’s stupid. Not sure about your ‘or’.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: Not to pounce on some random twitter guy, but Eli Lake as “the left”? I’ve always thought of him as a neocon stooge
Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.
@BlueDWarrior: Fair enough. I don’t know enough about the electorate in blue districts to know whether a “riled up base” of 35% can beat a “demoralized core” of 65% reliably in either a primary or the general. And how Trump “wins” a battle with HFC is a mystery: if he runs his own candidates, it seems like they’d split the base vote and hand the nom to a moderate, aka both sides lose, or set up a bruising primary for either side to get pasted by the Dem in the general.
I will say that Trump seems to be losing significant support from both sides. So yay!
Adam L Silverman
@Chyron HR: I even had the graphics all picked out:
Barbara
@Another Scott: Warner so wants to be bipartisan, but I am happy he is choosing some other issue.
Major Major Major Major
@ruemara: maybe. Right now Snowden is just doing straight-up pro-Russia propaganda about this morning’s attack in Russia.
sharl
Good ol’ Eli Lake
schrodingers_cat
@Thoroughly Pizzled: BS supporters targeted Cory Booker and John Lewis, coincidence? I think not.
piratedan
well, it simply means that GOP is going to fight this all the way down to the last cinder.
Trump’s known associates include not only people in Putin’s circle but also known foreign intelligence types and Russian mafioso… the GOP doesn’t care. We’re running the show now and Donnie Small-hands is a useful tool to do what we want…
Obviously they’ve evolved to the position where the Democratic Party is bad for America and the ONLY thing good for America is GOP control. These guys are Fascists (if not Nazi’s).
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He was the neo-Con go to during the Bush 43 Administration. He has no actual work experience in intel or the military or national security, so I’m not really sure how he got to be a national security reporter. Because he’s got no background he has no actual experience or expertise to ground and contextualize his reporting.
Immanentize
@Major Major Major Major: You gotta dance with the one what brought ya.
Barbara
@Adam L Silverman: What I find at least a little heartening is that Trump’s disinformation and disrupt team seems to be filled with ranks of inexperienced if not amateur staff members, who are unlikely to demonstrate the level of finesse and fine knowledge of skulduggery to outwit the average intelligence professional or even the above average journalist. The fact that Nunes acted the way he did, that his sources were identified in record time and are now getting their own scrutiny just doesn’t bode well for Trump’s effort to control the escalating tide here.
Major Major Major Major
@Adam L Silverman: I’ve long said that the Internet of things is going to kill us all.
Immanentize
@sharl: They left out — “thwarted by snipes.”
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That is what it is. What I wanted was the clip of Corn mangling Lake on MSNBC.
pseudonymous in nc
@Adam L Silverman: What’s notable here is the parallel government structures of Orangistan are already solidifying after only a couple of months. State has been switched over to standby mode, and Prince Consort Jared is off in Iraq; the pipeline for delivering actionable items to the orange menace is complete, and it involves laundering through alt-right scumbags and Fox News.
This should be an eye-opening education to Americans on how shitty tinpot countries operate.
geg6
@Adam L Silverman:
David Corn has had more than enough of the bullshit from Trumpworld and their media lackeys. Between him and Joy Reid, the righteous anger barely in check is soooooooooo satisfying when they let it loose.
Adam L Silverman
@Barbara: It is a major failure in regard to staffing and personnel decisions. That anyone and everyone who is not considered to be a loyalist and who fails whatever ideological test they’ve developed and who has ever written anything even remotely critical about the President is immediately disregarded from consideration is how you get this mess. It removes almost every serious person from consideration. Had this been Kasich Administration (take a deep breath Kay), you would see both mainstream GOP and Democratic/conservative and liberal professionals being considered for the tier 2 and 3 positions across the government. More the former than the latter because it was a GOP Administration. Same if this had been a Clinton Administration, but in reverse. All of those folks, and, to be honest, I’m just barely senior enough to count among them, are now locked out of consideration. Not that I would have necessarily gotten a position, just that I could expect to be considered on the merits.
Thoroughly Pizzled
@pseudonymous in nc: Thank God he hasn’t put together a paramilitary organization.
geg6
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, gotta agree there. Never saw Lake as anywhere on the spectrum of left.
Mike in Pasadena
Adam, do you think Congressman Schiff knows to ask the boldfaced and italicized questions near the beginning of your post? I don’t know what kind of advisors he has or what expertise they have. They might appreciate hearing from you.
Major Major Major Major
@geg6:
He spends a lot of time attacking liberals so you can see how a bystander might think he was a lefty.
geg6
@Major Major Major Major:
LOL! True, true. I hadn’t thought of it that way. Which just goes to show that I’m a neoliberal traitor to the revolution.
Adam L Silverman
@Mike in Pasadena: I expect he does. He stated on FRI, after he saw whatever it was that Congressman Nunes saw, that he didn’t see anything of any real importance in that material.
As for hearing from me: I am not a constituent of his, I have no contacts that can get me to him. And therefore no way of reaching him.
D58826
@Thoroughly Pizzled: Well since the brother of his Sec. of Education is Erik Prince, founder of Blackwater, he has a ready source for mercenaries if he needs them.
Adam L Silverman
@geg6: @Major Major Major Major: The point isn’t the inaccurate assessment of the random twitter person, it’s the video clip. FOCUS!!!!
SatanicPanic
The trolls are having a little Klan rally on that Eli Lake post on Bloomberg. Eli is depantsing himself with his Trump ball-polishing. Lame that Bloomberg is running with this. They’re normally a bit better. Though they still employ McMegan so maybe I’m being foolish.
different-church-lady
@Major Major Major Major: Seen there: what you did.
Kay
@Adam L Silverman:
Ha! Kasich would have been a better President than Trump. Easily. No contest.
pseudonymous in nc
@Thoroughly Pizzled:
Arguably (and scarily) he doesn’t need to, because ICE, CBP, Border Patrol and lots of local magahat cops are already on board with the agenda, and equipped with the hardware of an occupying force. What was Arpaio’s operation in Maricopa County if it wasn’t a political paramilitary operating under vague electoral consent? And that’s only the most blatant case.
Kay
SUSAN RICE! BENGHAZI!
OMFG they aren’t gonna go thru this again are they?
rikyrah
I really appreciate your posts, Silverman :)
ruemara
@Major Major Major Major: Well, the man does need to work.
@pseudonymous in nc: Exactly. All the people with the rule of law jobs are eager to ignore the law for the authoritarian abuse.
Goku
Quick question, would never happen, I know, but: what would happen if all elected GOP officials as well as nonelected (judges and WH staff and department heads) in the country died tomorrow?
Booger
@Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.: “Free Dumb Caucasians” wins today’s internet.
Chris
@pseudonymous in nc:
Apparently, the NYPD is alerting ICE about immigrants’ court dates, sanctuary city or no sanctuary city (warning, Fox News link – http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/03/nypd-reportedly-defies-sanctuary-city-status-after-alerting-ice-on-illegal-immigrants-court-dates.html).
See, this is why I consider the fantasies of blue state secessionism that’ve popped up from time to time since last November to be utter fantasies. No matter how blue the state, the police, and most armed organizations, remain an arm of the GOP.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
it’s among the least of Trump’s sins, but I hate him for making me agree with David Frum so often
ruemara
@Goku: My belief in a beneficent deity would return.
randy khan
@Barbara:
Right now he’s being bipartisan on the Intelligence Committee (and I mean that in a good way, since the Senate Intelligence Committee seems to be running rationally so far).
schrodingers_cat
First thing, husband kitteh’s cousin said when he called from Delhi last week to give us the bad news of an uncle passing away.
WTF is wrong with you people, how could you vote for T as the President?
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: Okay, didn’t want to set you off.
pamelabrown53
@Adam L Silverman: #12.
Question Adam. Do you send your posts to the relevant people on the the Intel. committees and others who might be able to use it in a timely manner? Thanx.
rikyrah
Trump haunted by his record during Sexual Assault Prevention Month
04/03/17 10:40 AM
By Steve Benen
…………………..
Again, it’s a good thing when the White House recognizes National Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month, and there’s nothing problematic about the text of the proclamation.
The problem, however, is with the person who signed the proclamation.
As much of the world probably recalls, Donald Trump was recorded in 2005 boasting about his romantic exploits, which eventually led him to brag about committing sexual assaults. The Republican said, among other things, that he kisses women he considers beautiful – “I don’t even wait,” Trump claimed – which he said he can get away with because of his public profile.
“And when you’re a star, they let you do it,” Trump said on the recording. “You can do anything. Grab ‘em by the p—y.”
After Trump denied having done what he bragged about doing, 11 women came forward to accuse the Republican of sexual misconduct – one of whom is currently suing the president for defamation, stemming from the controversy.
This isn’t a dynamic that will simply go away. If Trump honors those with physical disabilities, we’ll be reminded of his mockery of Serge Kovaleski. If the president recognizes Hispanic Heritage Month, we’ll think of his racist attacks against a Latino judge. If he honors Gold Star parents, we’ll be reminded of his unfortunate remarks about the Khan family.
Goku
@ruemara: Ha. Mine too, suppose. I’d like to see it happen just to watch wingers finally and completely lose their minds
sharl
I’m guessing this has already been posted in B-J comments today, but if not, or in case you missed it – from Roll Call:
~
~…~
~~
He got a huge boost in his early days from former Congressman Bill Thomas (R-CA), a major power broker back in the day, and a name I had forgotten until seeing it in this article.
Anyhoo, it’s who you know, and the friends you make along the way, that so often matters the most. Yay.
greennotGreen
@Goku: Do we know this in advance? Because I want to buy stock in funeral homes.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: My boss kitteh would have been a better Purrsident. He has ten times more dignity in his little paw, than the windbag currently occupying the highest elected office in the land.
randy khan
@Goku:
Everything would be better.
Succession to the Presidency would be, uh, interesting. But I think at least the Senate rules would permit the Dems to elect a President Pro Tempore who could succeed to the Presidency, and who of course would be a Democrat. Probably that’s also true in the House, so depending on which body got its act together first, it could either be whoever was elected Speaker or President Pro Tempore (in either case, very temporarily).
The lower courts could function, but the Supreme Court might lack a quorum until at least one replacement was named.
JPL
@Kay: Yes and the media will play along. That’s how Trump got elected.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay: Sure they are. Trey Gowdy, back in the saddle again. I bet he was as heartbroken as any one of us on Nov 9 last year, and now he’s got something he can ride again.
Jay C
Yeah, but it’s all in the service of a higher aim, i.e. trying to back up Trump’s unhinged tweets, so its all OK……
Yarrow
@piratedan:
They are going to destroy the Republican party. Glad about that, but they could take the country with them. They are not patriots and they do not love their country. They have a choice. They are choosing to be traitors.
The Moar You Know
@Chris: Also happening in Los Angeles as well.
Agree with your conclusion that the police state will ensure that one way or another the populace remains under their control (I think at this point you can consider American police separate from the society that they impose “law and order” on.)
tobie
@gene108: @pseudonymous in nc:
This is so true. Rice is a perfect target for them as a woman and an African-American. It’s amazing to see the pattern of woman-hate and how much the media ignores it. First it was Hillary then Sally Yates then Evelyn Farkas and then Susan Rice. I expect Loretta Lynch will be mentioned next by the GOP as a member of a deep-state cabal.
Goku
@randy khan: Neat. I guess if any career Repub officials in departments had integrity they could be spared. I wasn’t just talking about the Fed governemt, but state and local as well
schrodingers_cat
@tobie: Those photos of T surrounded by his dickish all male all white coterie while he is signing his EOs is a message to the base as well.
Chris
@The Moar You Know:
Yep. They resent the citizens that they’re supposed to “serve and protect” and probably doubly so in blue states. And in decades of war-on-drugs and similar crap, they’ve come to view themselves as an army of occupation rather than a part of the community.
Someone on LGM a while back mentioned an instance in the Civil War where some slave grabbers went north to find a few runaways, and when they got to the town where they were hiding, found themselves locked up in jail for long enough for the slaves to escape. Uplifting story, but the main thing I remember thinking was “if this happened today with an illegal immigrant [the closest thing we have now] there is nowhere in the country where you could count on the police to do that again. Not the NYPD, not the LAPD, certainly not the Chicago PD. They’re all Confederates now.”
Immanentize
Tomorrow morning, in Massachusetts’ Supreme Judicial Court, there is going to be an amazing and important argument — maybe the most important one in the Commonwealth this year. The question is whether a Sherrif (the person in most counties who have the authority to hold people before sentencing to prison) can detain a person based on an ICE detainer alone. the law seems pretty clear that a person can only be held in Mass. (after initial processing time) subject to a Judge’s order. ICE detainers are administrative orders, not judicial orders. The Plaintiff is already deported, but they are going forward anyway. The Mass. A.G. mostly is siding with the plaintiff. The US Government filed a brief in the case and will have time at tomorrow’s argument to present their side of the issue. So it is mostly Massachusetts versus the Feds….
Kay
@JPL:
I’m glad she was looking! It’s her job. God knows what this collection of misfits and weirdos are up to.
I hope it’s all elaborately documented and held in a secure facility for later retrieval.
Just One More Canuck
@Goku: America’s collective IQ would increase by at least 10 points
rikyrah
HHS Secretary Price’s stock-trading controversy grows more serious
04/03/17 11:20 AM
By Steve Benen
The fact that Tom Price was even confirmed as Secretary of Health and Human Services points to a deterioration of political norms.
As regular readers may recall, in late January, there were some striking reports published about the far-right Georgia Republican and his controversial investment record. The Wall Street Journal reported, for example, that Price “traded more than $300,000 in shares of health-related companies over the past four years while sponsoring and advocating legislation that potentially could affect those companies’ stocks.” Kaiser Health New added soon after that Price got “a sweetheart deal” on an investment opportunity from a foreign biotech firm. CNN then reported that the congressman bought stock in a medical company, introduced legislation that would benefit that company, and then received a campaign contribution from the company’s PAC.
We learned soon after that Price allegedly undervalued stocks he owns “in a pharmaceutical company both to the committee and in his financial disclosure forms,” and a separate Wall Street Journal piece added, “Three months after investing in four companies with manufacturing plants in Puerto Rico, President Donald Trump’s pick for Health and Human Services secretary introduced legislation that would directly benefit those companies.”
USA Today, citing research from government ethics lawyers, noted on Feb. 8 that Price’s investments “warrant probes by both federal securities regulators and the House ethics committee.” Two days later, Senate Republicans, without exception, confirmed Price anyway.
The revelations, however, continue. ProPublica had this report on Friday afternoon:
Oh my.
The Moar You Know
@Chris: The only citizenship they recognize is Cop Nation, the only laws they’ll enforce are the ones they feel like enforcing. The idea of a cop jailing another cop in the 21st century is de facto absurd.
D58826
@tobie:
Somewhat ot but goes to show how low these knuckle draggers really are;
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/03/let-malia-obama-live-the-right-wing-s-persecution-of-the-former-first-daughter.html
Peale
@Goku: The beltway media would demand that the Democrats reach across the aisle and meet the GOP half way.
sharl
Hahahaha {sob}
Major Major Major Major
@Peale: LOL!
A Ghost To Most
Just told Michael Bennet that he has lost 4 votes he had at the next election, due to his unwillingness to support the filibuster of Gorsuch. Coloradans need Jared Polis to primary his ass.
Immanentize
@Peale: There was a great political cartoon in maybe 2010 or so that showed Obama talking to Boehner and Obama in the first frame said, “I will meet you halfway.” In the second frame, Boehner takes a huge step backwards.
westyny
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Maybe it’s just that occasionally Frum agrees with you/us.
Immanentize
@sharl: I doubt Gorka (the self-described Intellectual (NAZI!)) has actually read the Federalist Papers. And if he did, he didn’t much get them. They are actually a very specific set of writings to argue with New Yorkers (the Anti-Federalists) who in some cases, IMHO, had the better arguments.
Yarrow
@tobie:
And women are pissed off:
Chris
@The Moar You Know:
I mean, I don’t think this was cops, just a private posse sent north to retrieve the slaves, the equivalent of hiring a bounty hunter or a PI today. But yeah, even there, can you imagine the LAPD or NYPD ruining a bounty hunter or a PI’s day to protect some illegal immigrants? More likely they’d do the opposite and give them carte blanche, figuring eh, that illegal scum needs to be kept under control, and if someone else is doing it that saves us the paperwork.
Applejinx
@Adam L Silverman: That’s OK, in theory there’s only one person in the world you’d actually recognize
JPL
@rikyrah: It can’t be said often enough.. IOKIYR
Kay
Uh, oh. More trouble for the reeking sewer that is FOX:
Is this why the President of the United States was specifically promoting them this morning?
Kay
Mnemosyne
@Thoroughly Pizzled:
Oh, come on, it’s not like the Republicans to irrationally hate a liberal Black woman! They’re the party of Lincoln, you know.
And the Wilmer fans will tell you that Rice is a warmongering warmongerer, unlike Trump, so it’s okay for her to be punished.
Redshift
@randy khan:
I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully that will satisfy his bipartisanship fetish, so he’ll stick with us on other matters.
sharl
@Immanentize: I certainly agree. Gorka is definitely a Meme Guy, not someone with any intellectual depth. If that hadn’t become clear already, it became obvious when someone found his dissertation online and posted excerpts. Yikes!
…
I regret that I missed the edit window on my comment to riff off the “leather-bound” bit by working in a reference to the scene from John Goldfarb, Please Come Home (1965), where the King of Fawzia (Peter Ustinov) reacts in disgust and horror upon being presented the gift of
a footballluggage by U.S. diplomats: Pigskin!….It becomes worrisome when reality begins to resemble an absurdist dark comedy from the psychedelic 60s, only without the comedy. Hopefully we’ll stay out of Dr. Strangelove territory (casts worried glance at North Korea policy pronouncements).
ETA: it wasn’t a football, but luggage.
Immanentize
@Kay:
At some point, some one of these plaintiffs is going to get the idea to sue FOX under civil RICO (Racketeer Corrupt Influenced and Corrupt Organizations). There certainly is sufficient evidence to make the case.
Mike J
We hit 41
Immanentize
@sharl: Speaking of crazy 70’s counterculture literature, maybe we are just at the beginning of the Illuminatus! Trilogy?
Woodrowfan
@schrodingers_cat: and he answered “Narendra Damodardas Modi”???
Immanentize
@Mike J: I thought we would — Adam and I were talking about Shumer maybe releasing Senators last week. When Shumer announced they might filibuster, I assumed he had an accurate whip count. But Senators wanted to see what constituents said over the weekend. I think they found it was a nothing burger back home. I think the drama to get to 41 has been really well timed.
schrodingers_cat
@Woodrowfan: Narendra Modi is awful but T is in a league of his own. AFAIK NM hasn’t colluded with Pakistan to become the PM.
ETA: NM is like Bush or a standard issue Republican governor going on to becoming a President. The man has been in electoral politics since at least the 90s.
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne:
I swear when I first read this that it said, Race, not Rice. Which is also an accurate Wilmer comment.
Jeffro
@sharl: “Abu Hamilton”. I’m dyin’…
Immanentize
@Immanentize: ETA — (editing busted) That is, an accurate comment about Wilmer, not an accurate comment OF Wilmer’s.
Jeffro
BTW some breaking news, Senator Chris Coons apparently is the 41st vote against Gorsuch. (Good on ya, Chris!)
Your move, Turtle.
SenyorDave
@D58826: Let Malia Obama Live: The Right-Wing’s Persecution of the Former First Daughter
If you google Malia and Lucan Wintrich (the RWNJ who has been following her) you get every crazy right wing website using the same talking points, all implying she is a an out of control privileged blah picking on this poor hard-working journalist. Its a wonder one of the SS hasn’t punched Wintrich out, my guess is most would like to do it. These people are garbage.
Timurid
@Jeffro:
Never gonna be Caliph now…
GregB
The Trumpist two minutes of hate have targeted recently April Ryan, Maxine Waters and Susan Rice.
No pattern here.
Jeffro
@Jeffro: And by the way, since Trumpov filed for re-election the afternoon of his inauguration, meaning the campaign has already been “on” for 70-something days, by The Turtle’s own logic we’re not supposed to be voting on SCOTUS nominees until the next presidential election.
So for that and for so many, many other things, UP YOURS, MITCH!
rikyrah
@GregB:
Uh huh
Uh huh
Woodrowfan
@schrodingers_cat: fair enough…
A Ghost To Most
Dems reach required number of Senators to sustain filibuster
Yarrow
@Jeffro: No nominee for the Supreme Court should be considered in the last year of a president’s term.
Uncle Cosmo
Sen. Cardin (D-MD) a NO on Gorsuch. Unclear whether he will stand with Chuck Schemer ;^D & other Dems against cloture. DC office phone busy & voicemailbox full.
marcopolo
Totally OT but anyone here want to speculate on the actual possibility of Spain & Britain coming to blows over who should have Gibraltar? I had heard a report yesterday that the number of Brits living in Spain requesting Spanish citizenship has skyrocketed (up 400% though the actual number is still small) since the Brexit vote due to issues like will they still have free healthcare from the Spanish gov’t since they will no longer be euro members.
Now I see there are people saber rattling over the sovereignity of that piece of real estate.
This all seems terrifyingly stupid to me. I don’t want to even contemplate where things go with Scotland.
And yes, I am intensely aware of craziness of our own situation here. It seems to be a global phenomena.
Immanentize
If confirmed, Gorsuch would be a triple asterisk Justice:
*1 Only got his seat because the Senate refused to act on Garland (Absolutely unheard of)
*2 First Supreme Court Justice nominated by a President under federal investigation for vote tampering
*3 First modern Supreme Court Justice not subject to filibuster procedures
There may be others, but the guy is an ass just for proceeding
Uncle Cosmo
I gotsa say that every time I see “Wilmer” my first thought is of the world-renowned Wilmer Eye Institute here in Bawlmer (full name: Bawlmer Murlin Hon) where I was recently screened for Glau Coma. Very distracting.
Maybe in this case it’s the “Wilmer” I Clinic? or Ay-Yi-Yi Clinic?
hilts
@Kay:
Fox News Channel is the most dishonest news outlet in America and I hope the floodgates will open up this week and they’ll be hit by a public relations nightmare (hopefully more O’Reilly accusers will step forward in addition to the Ailes accusers). God knows they deserve it after polluting the airwaves with bullshit for all these years.
TenguPhule
You can’t throw a fish in the Republican Party without hitting a traitor these days.
Immanentize
@marcopolo:
I have a friend who is from the UK and he told me this would happen. MANY middle class and wealthy people moved to Spain in retirement because the weather is nice, the cost of living is low, and th ehealth care is supposed to be top notch. So I am not surprised by those numbers.
As for Gibraltar, the beauty is, because England is leaving the EU, Spain moved the EU counsel to consider Gibraltar as part of Spain for Brexit negotiation purposes — and the UK had no say in the matter. Welcome to Brexit. Screw the UK, all the time, every time.
ruemara
@D58826: They’ll do their best to hound the Obamas out of the country. And that’s the best case scenario.
Mnemosyne
@Adam L Silverman:
Several people here are constituents of Rep. Schiff, including Roger Moore, Ruckus, and BillInGlendaleCA. (I moved one town over, so I’m no longer his constituent.) But I realize that’s not the same thing as being worried about the potential ethics of it.
Mike in DC
I think that the Gorsuch filibuster is a net win for Dems, even with nuking the filibuster. It shows unity and discipline, and it opens the door for future unabashed liberal justices to be appointed under future Democratic presidents.
Now, if Mitch isn’t able to muster the votes to nuke the filibuster, it’s a huge setback for Trump, too.
TenguPhule
@Immanentize: First SC justice impeached and ejected from the court. (But ideally, not the last one)
schrodingers_cat
@Immanentize: The bastards deserve it. They don’t want immigrants, they should have thought twice before venturing to other countries to “trade”.
TenguPhule
@Goku:
I would seriously reconsider my atheism for starters.
TenguPhule
@marcopolo:
I wouldn’t take that bet. The British Conservative PM is a royal tit. /not gender bias, she really is one.
Mike J
@TenguPhule: AT LEAST PASSPORTS ARE BLUE AGAIN THE IMPORTANT THINGS ARE TAKEN CARE OF GOD
BLESS AMERICSAVE THE QUEEN!Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Immanentize: appointed by Vladimir Putin to a stolen SC seat. Quite a pair of asterisks to go into the history books
Lindsey Graham’s hissy fit about how the Dems made him/them steal the seat from Garland was one of the most incoherent spasms of dudgeon I have ever heard.
Immanentize
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That’s because the Republicans have no coherent reason about what they did to Garland — they wielded raw power. They should just admit it and get on with destroying what is left of the country.
Chet Murthy
@ruemara: Uh, they may try, but I’m sure there are a -buncha- cities and states that -all- would throw gynormous parades and weekly parties, for the honor of having the Obamas live there. I know mine would.
Immanentize
@schrodingers_cat: I completely agree. Let’s see what those Brits do when the Gulf Stream conveyor collapses!
psycholinguist
This story is not on the front page of the Washington post’s website. That’s a pretty brave move in my opinion.
amk
@TenguPhule: Yup, the limeys have the worst possible PM in their worst possible moment. Just like murkkka. Fucking voting fucking matters.
Chet Murthy
@Immanentize: Uh, I think that’s backwards, isn’t it? Spain’s pushed the EU to agree that the UK gets no special deal unless Spain gets its way with Gibraltar. Which, it seems to me, is fair. Gibraltar is a UK territory, hence will be outside the EU, why should Gibraltar get anything special from the EU?
Politics ain’t beanbag, after all. And the Brits have precious few cards at all to play.
trollhattan
Meanwhile in Kansas, the beatings continue as Brownback gets his way yet again.
TenguPhule
@Chet Murthy:
The Brits are trying to bluff with no cards.
And they’re no Captain Carrot.
Goku
@rikyrah: GOP= Grand Oligarchy Party
Mike J
@TenguPhule: Their only aircraft carrier is supposed to be finished later this year, but they won’t have any planes for it until 2020.
TenguPhule
@Hoodie:
Which is exactly why they need to bury her. The modern Republican party is composed of nothing but spies and traitors now.
Marcopolo
@Immanentize: I hadn’t heard about the that negotiating maneuver. Aside from the Brits actually living on Gibraltar and their interests, does it actually have all that much strategic value to Britain or is it more sentimental? Does G provide the ability to control access between the Atlantic & the Mediterranean?
GregB
I have recently begun to speculate if the madness sweeping over the world is a response to the collective coming to terms that the earth will be unable to sustain humanity and unrestrained capitalism, mercantilism and humans are pulling in the oars and heading back to tribal instincts and organizing.
This does fly in the face of the long time conservative argument about unrestrained growth and the effects on natural resources because they seem to be the chief embracers of the new world disorder.
TenguPhule
@Mike J: And their new destroyers are literally pieces of junk.
Kinda a sad end to the greatest navy on the face of the earth in its time.
Brachiator
@Chet Murthy:
and
Spain was bluffing, too, but could not make the play work.
The cards in play were Scotland and Catalonia, not just Gibraltar. From Reuters:
Immanentize
@Chet Murthy: That’s how I described it, no?
ruemara
@Chet Murthy: I said country, not that your point wouldn’t be true even with that qualifier. They want the Obamas to leave their country.
Immanentize
@Marcopolo: I think it is more a historic point of pride for England, “Remember when we kept sinking your ships like 200 years ago?” issue. Read, e.g. O’Brien….
Immanentize
@Marcopolo: Then again, the Brits did sail half way around the world to keep the Falkland Islands safe for Bangers and Mash.
Adam L Silverman
@pamelabrown53: No. No one on the Intel Committees are going to read my blog posts. I have no connections to anyone elected to Congress nor to anyone on their staffs. Nor to anyone on the committee staffs.
Elie
A little bit off topic, but Adam, can you address Henry Kissinger, Bill Gates and Condie Rice’s involvement and support of Trump foreign policy? I have read in a couple of places, including Drezner’s column in WAPO today about Trump’s coming meeting with China, where Kissinger facilitated the “back door channel” with Jared Kushner. What is their angle? I would have thought him smarter than backing this immensely incompetent regime, but what do I know?
Brachiator
@GregB:
We could feed, clothe, and house the world’s population many times over with just the food and waste that the developed world throws away every day. A degree of capitalism and mercantilism provides the base of even the most deeply socialist countries.
We can and should do better. The devil, as always, is in the details and the will to apply ourselves to solutions.
D58826
@Immanentize: There a tweet, with a link, to a long article on Sat. so I can’t find the link. The article was about exactly how popular is Wilmer out in the country. Well based on the election results from Nov.:
1. he backed a single payer initiative in Col. which was defeated overwhelmingly (Hillary carried the state),
2. a similar initiative also lost overwhelmingly in Calif (Hillary also carried),
3. he backed Russ Feingold in Wisc who lost, and
4. he backed a progressive in upstate NY and she lost.
According to the writer, Bernie backed many more losers than winners but these were the only 4 that he gave any details on. Now that doesn’t mean that the D’s should totally ignore everything that Wilmer and his supporters want but it may be a big mistake to assume that the entire country is just waiting with baited breath for the ‘Bernie solution’.
By the way where did Wilmer come from?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Chris: The difference was the institution of slavery was an economic outrage as well as a moral one so everyone in the North didn’t like the idea of slavery being enforceable in their state sp slave owners couldn’t undercut free labor. The better equivalent is county sheriffs refusing to aid the ATF because pot farms are to critical the local economy.
Jeffro
@hilts:
They’re not a news outlet, even if you add the “dishonest” – they’re a propaganda channel, plain and simple.
I gave my RWNJ dad a heads-up that he was going to hear a lot of crap about Susan Rice today and that he shouldn’t go all-in on it, as it’ll likely blow up in Nunes’ (and Trump’s) faces. He goes, “who cares about Rice…I want to know what Val Jarrett is doing moving in with the Obamas…what’s that mean?”
Say what?
So I take 10 seconds to check this out (thanks, Snopes.com!) and of course it is crap, Fox News citing the Daily Mail (aka, England’s National Inquirer) and then other RW news orgs kick Fox’s report around, and so on.
Me:
This has been another edition of, “Y’all Won’t Believe It, But Fox is Still Harping on Valerie Jarrett to Rile Up Their Viewers”
Citizen_X
@sharl:
Maybe we’ll only go as far as The President’s Analyst territory, with the broad use of hallucinogens, and Trump being defended by…the phone company?
Another Scott
@D58826: A Bogart movie – The Maltese Falcon.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chet Murthy
@Brachiator: Uh …. I thought the scotland/catalonia thing was unrelated? And that the reason Spain relented there, was …. well, if Scotland secedes from the UK-not-EU-member to stay in the EU, it isn’t quite as bad as Scotland seceding from the UK-as-EU-member to stay in the EU?
That is, the former case, would not be a precedent for Catalans, but the latter would (and hence, should be opposed by Spain)?
Chet Murthy
@Immanentize: Uhh … I read the following as backwards from what I read in the Guardian, which is that Spain insisted Gibraltar was part of the UK for Brexit purposes, unless the UK relinquished some sort of sovereignty.
Chet Murthy
@ruemara: Oh ha, fair enough, I’m sure they’re working hard to make ’em persona non grata. Projection’s a helluva a drug, eh?
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: No he was promoting them because they were stating that a high ranking former Obama Administration official had ordered the unmasking of the intercepts. Fox didn’t use any names, but we now know from Lake’s reporting it was Susan Rice. Which begs another question: who leaked to Fox?
Adam L Silverman
@Mike J: And that’s why Schumer released Bennett – he didn’t need him and he can now spare him a vote that could make trouble for him next year.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
Hopefully with something large, rusty, with engine powered rotating bits, that trees fear.
Uncle Cosmo
@Goku: All of their (im)mor(t)al remains would have been lifted up & dropped into the nearest septic tank. And we would call it The Crapture.
Chyron HR
@D58826:
I dunno, one of those shitty little maple syrup states.
? Martin
Yay! Mimi Walters [R] now has an opponent in CA-45, and I know and like her.
She is a law professor in the same area as Elizabeth Warren. CA-45 is going to be a difficult district for Dems to win, but this is probably our best shot.
Adam L Silverman
@SenyorDave: That’s how you know Wintrich’s account is bogus. The Secret Service wouldn’t let him get that close to her.
Chris
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
In that case, you could still apply the same principle to illegal immigration, given how crucial immigrants both legal and illegal are to the local economy in much of the country. Police departments refusing to help ICE round up illegal immigrants because they don’t want to screw the local economy wouldn’t be hard to imagine for the same rationale, but that doesn’t seem to happen much – or rather, even when it does (i.e. when the decision is made at the top not to help ICE), enough people in the organization are still willing to subvert their orders to make them essentially toothless.
Immanentize
@Chet Murthy: The Brits are pissed, true, but I think I got it right —
Spain has claimed, at a minimum, that Gibraltar is “disputed territory and:
Spain did not make Gibraltar all UK — although that would be a trade possibility for the rock as Brexit goes forward, should England insist.
Adam L Silverman
@Mnemosyne: That wasn’t my point. I have no reason to be in contact with him and there is no reason for him or his staff to listen to me. There’s no ethics involved here. I’m not his constituent. I’m just a defense consultant/contractor. If you all that are in his district think that any national security questions I pose here are important, you all should feel free to raise them with his office. You may attribute them to me if you wish.
Elie
Consider for a minute what it will be like when we have our true first emergency during this regime? Their lies, Fox lies and supporter lies will make it difficult to manage whatever the situation is and instill panic and distrust …. They truly have no idea how vulnerable they are making us. Any enemy (Putin?, N Korea?) wouldn’t really need much to have us stampede in panic using a flood of conflicting and terrifying mis-information, no?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Adam L Silverman: Bennet was just reelected. He won’t face voters again until 2024– edited 2022, oops
Brachiator
@Chet Murthy:
On paper, the two are unrelated. On paper. What fires the imagination of the people involved is something else.
I’m not sure that most English people think that an independent Scotland is a real possibility.
The Gibraltar fracas is independent, but the comments of the EU official that Spain would have some power over decisions made about Gibraltar hints at all kinds of unanticipated consequences.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Actually I’m not in Schiff’s district. My rep is Judy Chu. His district literally is less than 100 feet away from where I live. His office is closer than Judy Chu’s.
I wish I lived in his district.
Chet Murthy
@Immanentize: Heh, we’re reading it in very different ways. I read this as Spain saying “UK, if you want a good deal on Brexit, you gotta deal with us specially”. And with the history of Spain wanting Gibraltar back, and decades of border closures as a stick.
Ehhh. It’s a giant morass, those Brits have got themselves into.
Major Major Major Major
This always reminds me of a version of the “this is fine” dog (drinking coffee in a burning house) I saw, where he’s saying saying “the real story here is the fire alarm.”
Adam L Silverman
@Elie: Kissinger is the Grand Old Man of Republican foreign policy and is considered to be their most senior China Hand. My guess is Gates is hoping for a way to sell more tech. As for Rice, I have no idea. She’s not a China expert. And unlike James Baker who is a Bush family retainer and Colin Powell, who is on record not liking Trump, she may have been all that the Administration had left to turn to in terms of surviving GOP Secretaries of State. Given that this is being run by the President’s son in law, who has no experience in any of these matters, it is very hard to read the tea leaves as I’m not sure there are tea leaves to be read.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this isn’t mere hypocrisy, this is some kind of nervous breakdown
jl
The Unmaskeneneing!!!
I got some questions about this, since the Lake story doesn’t give much context or information needed to evaluate. Besidee the basic fact nugget of Rice’s request, the story is mostly editorualizing useful to Fox News and Trumpsters.
From what I can figure on this, the raw intelligence reports have the names, right? That seems obvious. They get masked for summaries and reports that are circulated. Rice requests that they be unmasked. Was that just for her own knowledge, or did that mean that the names were unmasked in summaries that were circulated? That last issues seems, to me, most important for civil rights concerns.
The masking seems so thin, from what I have read, in the first place in situations like these as to be almost meaningless anyway.
The UNMASKENENENENENINGINGING!!!
TenguPhule
@Elie:
Lots of people will die, ideally Republicans will be blamed for it but probably not.
Things will get worse due to botched handling.
A Civil War may or may not be the end result.
D58826
@Another Scott: ah. thanks
TenguPhule
@jl:
And yet another misses the forest for the leaves on the branches of the trees.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Then I have no idea what the issue is.
TenguPhule
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Having him against the wall when the revolution comes is going to be a public service.
Adam L Silverman
@Ruckus: If you run an extension cord or something can you claim residency? Maybe a line for hang drying your clothes?
Bill Arnold
@Yarrow:
What exactly is that chart (male/female activism) measuring? I see the skew in the male/female counts, but where did the information come from? Are these just stats gathered by dailyaction.org or something else?
(Not arguing, just wondering where the assertion came from.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
It’s not his goals I object to, it’s his relentless insistence, like just last Friday, on telling his supporters that the obstacle to those goals is the Democratic party. Even Pierce, who’s half a fire bagger, seems to be losing patience, though he won’t come out and say it just yet.
jl
@TenguPhule: You got something to say, say it. Sorry I am just too slow to get your point.
A Ghost To Most
@Adam L Silverman:
Bennet just made trouble for himself now, and in 2022. If he won’t stick with the Democrats in CO, we will move on without him. Jared Polis for Senator!
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: something can be important and wrong and need fixing even if it’s not a high priority. Folks are allowed to point it out.
Chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
They really and sincerely don’t understand how other people could possibly presume to do to them what they do to others, and they honestly think it’s not fair. If only it was just that guy. The entire movement increasingly has a raging case of narcissistic personality disorder (at least, if narcissism can be transposed from “me” to “my in-group”).
sharl
@Citizen_X:
Haha, I appreciate both the kinda-sorta optimism and the reference to that movie, which I have adored for many years. Though I only realized recently that the creative spirit behind it – Ted Flicker – had his career ruined over it because his thinly veiled J. Edgar Hoover character (Director of the “FBR”) was a little bit too thinly veiled.
……Maybe others could match him (e.g., members of the 50s HUAC), but when it came to ruining people, no one could do it better than J. Edgar. Good times…good times.
jl
The guy unmasked was Flynn, right? That is the guy who now seems to have been violating regs and laws on reporting all the foreign dough he was collecting, about as fast as he could collect it? Why is it assumed that wanted to know whether he was the guy is mainly political? I’m supposed to be worried about big security state spying on a citizen who was breaking the law?
Sorry I am apparently so fucking stupid about this issue. Someone please explain.
Raoul
Utter sack of shit Lindsey Graham has the insane temerity to say that he’s going nuclear, “I’m not going to be part of a Senate where Democrats get their judges but Republicans don’t get theirs”
FUCK YOU, queen bee. If Garland had made it thru, and we were now blocking the next appointment, you could say this without being a garbage human. But, miss thing, you are a garbage human.
bystander
@Major Major Major Major: Not this bystander.
Watching the film Tea for Two, waiting for Gene Nelson’s great version of Crazy Rhythm, and just realized:
Happy Birthday, Doris Day. Doris is 95 today.
Major Major Major Major
@bystander: #notallbystanders
Chris
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The man seems determined to become our side of the aisle’s version of the Freedom Caucus, a crusading nitwit who causes far more problems for his own side than he does for anyone else.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
LOL
Good idea.
OK, on first thought, would require a fair bit of work to flesh out how either may help in any way. Including why it would make any difference in my life in any real way.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: Here’s how this works. When the NSA compiles the intercepts and prepares them for distro to the appropriate analytical teams within the IC – first and foremost at the CIA, but also FBI, NCTC/ODNI, and others – the names of the foreigners are unredacted. If these are part of communications between Americans on US soil and foreigners, the American names are redacted (masked). If between Americans not on US soil, the names of Americans are unredacted. So let’s say this was a call with Ambassador Kislyak, you’d see something like this:
AMB Kislyak: Good morning.
USP1: Good morning Sir.
AMB Kislyak: I wish to offer my congratulations on the President-elect’s impressive victory.
USP1: Thank you. I’ll pass that on, I’m sure he will appreciate that very much.
…
If the intercept, is between two foreigners referencing a US official, it would look something like this:
AMB Kislyak: I spoke with USP1 this morning. I extended, through him, your congratulations to the President-elect.
President Putin: Very good. Did USP1 the message?
AMB Kislyak: He did.
…
If the intercept is of email or a text message or something similar you’ll see similar redaction. If you get the intercept you can sometimes figure out who US citizen is just by how the redaction is done. Or by context. Given that there was an active CI investigation underway, and the National Security Advisor had most likely been read on, it would not be surprising that she would ask for the redaction to be lifted/for the names to be unmasked so she could more accurately herd the Interagency cats and properly brief President Obama. And remember, she cannot order unmasking, just request it. That the request was granted is important.
And nothing is circulated. People that need to know are read on. No one else is.
jl
@Raoul: That is Graham’s act. He feels he as done his Mr. Reasonable and Responsible long enough, now he needs to placate the reactionary crazies in his voting base. At least he’s not yelling about starting half a dozen wars right now, and scaring gullible people into thinking that we are all going to die in bazillion terrorist attacks later today.
Miss Bianca
@TenguPhule:
Seriously? What is this guy smoking, and why is no one talking about the crying need for US Senators to have to pee into a cup to prove that they are not on delusionally mind-altering substances?
Thru the Looking Glass...
@Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.:
As long as Trump is vertical, breathing, and/or still in office, it hasn’t hurt him enough…
Major Major Major Major
@jl: although I’m sure he’ll start beating the North Korea Will Nuke You From Space drum as soon as he’s done stealing this Supreme Court seat.
Ruckus
@Chris:
LG a major narcissist? Surly you jest. I mean given his history how can you come to that conclusion?
Adam L Silverman
@A Ghost To Most: I would not know, nor ever tell anyone who to support or how to vote. Do what you think is the right thing to do.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: So the names stay redacted in the reports, but the relevant officials are told who they are? Is that right?
bemused
@schrodingers_cat:
Our two kitties also have more love in their feline hearts for human beings
schrodingers_cat
@bemused: That is true and no malice as well.
The Moar You Know
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Once a Supreme Court seat is assigned to a party, it becomes the property of that party forever, unless the party is the Democrat party.
/new rule
trollhattan
@Miss Bianca:
BREAKING: Lindsey Graham to resign Senate seat.
Seems a reasonable path, given his newly articulated position.
cain
I wish we could do something petty.. like talk about Trump’s love of ketchup on his steak. Start doing a litmus test of a real american and then force people from Texas and others to defend putting ketchup on steak. I wonder if that would break the world for them. I mean.. why not? Nobody has questioned his ketchup fetish.. I remember when Obama was criticized for a) taking vacations b) taking vacations in Hawaii instead of where real Americans go – Pebble Beach.
Miss Bianca
@trollhattan: you actually got me to laugh at this shit! Well done, you! : )
Adam L Silverman
@jl: Pretty much. I don’t work on this stuff – I don’t do counterintelligence. But I think you’ve got the gist of it. Those that need to see the unredacted (unmasked) information are either provided it, able to access it, or given an explanation of who the redacted/masked names are.
jl
@cain:
“Trump’s love of ketchup on his steak.”
I’m filing suit on Congress not doing its job on 25th amendment. Slam dunk case. You are welcome. Look for Gofundme campaign. This is so slam dunk it will be cheap to get done.
Adam L Silverman
@The Moar You Know: Pretty much:
jl
@Adam L Silverman: OK, thanks. My conclusion is that the UnMaSKENeneningingING-Ghazi is complete BS.
rikyrah
The War on Women is Real
by Martin Longman April 3, 2017 2:41 PM
Here’s a helpful list compiled by Axios of the known allegations of sexual harassment against Roger Ailes and Bill O’Reilly, along with some of the settlement details. I think it’s useful to see it all in one place:
O’Reilly’s accusers
……………………..
Of course, this is just one very influential media organ. The more consequential War on Women is taking place right now in the Senate where Neil Gorsuch is being considered for a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court.
rikyrah
Can and Should Mitch McConnell Go Nuclear?
by Martin Longman April 3, 2017 1:27 PM
Adam Jentleson, writing in the New York Times, makes a couple of useful points about the prospect that Mitch McConnell will break the rules to change the Senate rules and eliminate the filibuster for lifetime Supreme Court nominees.
The first worthwhile point Jentleson makes is about simple proportionality. He compares what led up to Harry Reid’s 2013 decision to eliminate the filibuster for lower court nominees and executive branch nominees to what McConnell has so far faced in the way of Democratic obstruction. In other words, has McConnell exhausted his alternatives to going nuclear?
Adam L Silverman
@jl: Pretty much. Apparently Jeremy Bash took Lake to the woodshed on MSNBC a bit ago. Lake got burned by this same source last week. Defended his reporting until it was debunked the next day. The learning curve doesn’t seem to have much curve.
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: well, that’s only going to be true when bills that are super important to the party get scuttled by his demands.
Iowa Old Lady
@Peale: You are quoting what I heard on NPR this morning on my way home from the gym. Dems need to cooperate with moderate Rs or nothing will get done, they said, right before I switched over to my Hamilton CD so I wouldn’t drive off the road.
crawdad
Every visit to this blog is another peek into an alternate reality.
sharl
@Miss Bianca:
The idea of random surprise urine collections from members of Congress for drug testing has a certain appeal. But dramatic outbursts are part of Lindsey Graham’s shtick. Here he is a few years ago on the “need” to keep Guantanamo open, despite its clear value as a recruitment asset for future anti-U.S. terrorists, the existence of perfectly secure CONUS-based high-security prisons, and the problematic legal issues* surrounding what we’re doing at Guantanamo (*and Graham is a lawyer who almost certainly knows better!).
Keeping the U.S. populace ignorant, angry and frightened; maintaining ruinously costly security theater; making our security situation even worse…these are why we can’t have nice things.
clay
@Adam L Silverman:
I’m sure Trump will start decrying the illegal and unpresidented leaking any day now…
Major Major Major Major
@crawdad:
Make sure you use the Amazon affiliate link!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@rikyrah: I’m so old I remember when (2013) Bob Woodward sparked a long round of pundit finger wagging that gridlock in the Senate was Obama’s fault because he didn’t know how to schmooze– stupid became self-parody when he cited Newt Gingrich as an authority on the importance of collegiality in politics. After two weeks of this nonsense Obama invited a dozen Republican Senators. In the afternoon, before the dinner, all twelve of them had voted to filibuster an upper (don’t remember which) court nominee who had sterling qualifications because the NRA told them to. They stuck Obama with the check
bemused
@Jeffro:
Does your dad believe Snopes or does he automatically believe any site that doesn’t take rightwing line has to be liberal fake news?
schrodingers_cat
We can has new thread, please?
bemused
@schrodingers_cat:
At times I’m not entirely sure about the malice, lol, but they make it up in snuggling. They know who has control over the food.
sharl
@Adam L Silverman: Eli Lake is well compensated for his
journalismservices; he knows exactly what he is doing.schrodingers_cat
@bemused: They never hold a grudge, they will scratch and bite and then forget it.
Major Major Major Major
@bemused: my cat would be a better president because he lacks opposable thumbs to sign anything congress or Bannon hands him.
clay
@Adam L Silverman:
Who grants the request? The President? The director of the NSA?
amk
@crawdad: breitfart, infoturds and pox news aficionados – yer in the wrong place.
Adam L Silverman
@sharl: I am in the wrong line of work.
Adam L Silverman
@clay: By law, the Director of the NSA (DIRNSA). It is also possible that whoever Lake’s source is, as well as Cohen-Watnick give his lack of expertise and experience, saw DIRNSA as the acronym on the unmasking order and assumed it referred to the National Security Advisor and not ADM Rogers – the Director of the National Security Agency.
amk
sharl
@Adam L Silverman: Heh, it would appear most of us are.
boatboy_srq
@Peale: Smacks of reaching out to “the Holy Half-Dead Who Has Seen The Underverse”. IIRC that didn’t work so well on the big screen (for anyone but Twohy and Diesel and Universal Studios).
Kristine
@rikyrah:
Me, too.
bemused
@Major Major Major Major:
Good point!
@schrodingers_cat:
A previous cat was the sweetest, mellowest kitty ever. We were gone for at least a week and had someone come in a feed her. I think she spent a lot of time hiding in the basement from the strange, to her, person. When we arrived home and called for her, she eventually came upstairs, stopped at top step and proceeded to yowl loudly while giving us the stink eye for quite awhile, really bitching us out. We had never ever heard her vocalize like that. When she had said her piece, she was back to her sweet self and showed us how happy she was to have us home.
clay
@Adam L Silverman: So… you mean it’s possible that, not only are they going to besmirch Rice’s name in a political witch hunt designed to obfuscate the almost certainly real crimes the Trump’s campaign enacted… but that they’re only doing so because they are too dumb to understand acronyms?
rikyrah
Trump’s Populist Con Job On Trade
by Nancy LeTourneau April 3, 2017 12:32 PM
…………………….
Now, as people like Paul Krugman are beginning to document, we’re seeing that the president never bothered to think anything through beyond the con. His executive orders on trade last week were a total “nothingburger” and he only plans to make modest changes to NAFTA. Krugman explains why.
Just as Trump’s lies about bringing back coal jobs are based on a mythical understanding of the root of the problem, his castigation of trade agreements as the source of the problem for working class Americans is based on a lie.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@cain:
It was Myrtle Beach, Pebble Beach is still pretty exotic and there’s golf there.
rikyrah
The Increasing Incompetence of Republican Presidents
by Nancy LeTourneau April 3, 2017 10:28 AM
One of the things that modern-day historians have done is rank U.S. presidents from best to worst. Wikipedia has an interesting collection of these dating back to 1948. To help provide a visual map, they’ve color-coded them by quartiles:
Blue – first quartile
Green – second quartile
Orange – third quartile
Red – fourth quartile
Some interesting patterns show up. For example, according to these historians, this country had a string of fairly competent presidents in its early years from Washington to Jackson. Then came a period of some of the worst, as the Whig Party was in the midst of its demise (primarily over the issue of slavery) – giving way to the formation of the Republican Party. The years following the Great Depression brought us another series of competent presidents – from FDR through Johnson – followed by our modern-day presidents who have gravitated to the second and third quartile.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
he wasn’t the only one….
rikyrah
They Could Bury Us: Will Outrage Fatigue Allow Trump to Survive?
by D.R. Tucker April 2, 2017 3:00 PM
We cannot gainsay the possibility that the strategy could work.
To reconfigure a famous line from Senator Marco Rubio, we may have to dispel with the notion that Donald Trump doesn’t know what he’s doing when it comes to his efforts to change the subject and dampen public outrage about Russia’s interference in the 2016 presidential election. He may know exactly what he’s doing.
…………………………………
Trump and his enablers know that public outrage can be fleeting. They understand that there is a non-negligible likelihood that many Americans will become comfortably numb to Trump’s antics, turn their attention away from politics entirely, and move on to the same bread and circuses they indulged in during the Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush years. All they have to do is wait for enough Americans to get bored, and they can go right back to doing their (and Putin’s) dirty work.
It’s easy to mock the voters who are still pledging allegiance to Trump even as he screws them, the voters who think his Twitter tirades are terrific. It’s easy to regard these voters as folks who are, to use the Washington Post ’s famous line about members of the religious right, “largely poor, uneducated and easy to command.”
What about the rest of us?
Will the anti-Trump resistance grow or diminish as we head towards the summer? Eight years ago, the Tea Party gained momentum as the temperatures rose, sometimes to frightening levels. Will those opposed to Trump demonstrate similar resolve?
TenguPhule
@clay: Yes.
SATSQ.
amk
@Adam L Silverman: Obviously dood. But you are also too honest to survive in the wingnutz bubble for even a minute, let alone make a career out of lying.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat: The new thread is alive and dead at the same time.
jl
@rikyrah: And Brad DeLong still puts his ears to the ground early every morning listening for any sign of the approaching thunder of the giga-mega ultra jobs infrastructure program. Nothing yet.
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh no, let’s not go there.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
Until the money starts disappearing and the body count starts climbing.
Then it becomes personal.
dogwood
@Iowa Old Lady:
I have no problem with dems cooperating with moderate R’s to get some stuff done. But for that to happen Republicans would have to actually elect some moderates. “Moderate” is now about style over substance for both sides of the aisle and among the members of the press. It now describes “temperament” and persona almost exclusively. Jeff Flake isn’t a flame thrower; he’s not an asshole by nature so he gets labeled a “moderate” even though his record is consistently very conservative. Same could be said for many others on both sides of the aisle. Merrick Garland was immediately called a “moderate” by progressives and liberals even though his actual record didn’t come close to suggesting that was the case.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: Yes. It won’t be manufactured outrage either.
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: Its not even been born yet, how can it die?
TenguPhule
@cain: @jl:
A Death Penalty Felony which deserves to be burned at the stake.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Barbara: moi? I was talking about Gary Johnson
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat: It is both dead and alive until the moment of observation.
Barbara
@rikyrah: A lot of things might happen. D.R. Tucker is always there to remind us of all of those things that will count as failures on our part if they do happen. Just can’t go there along with him any more.
Iowa Old Lady
@dogwood: My problem is that it’s always the Ds who are expected to fix things and cooperate. It’s like an abusive relationship.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
Trump and his goons are weird. And somewhat predictable. They take the weird shit that they do themselves and reverse it.
Trump also seems to have a small hands hard on not just for undoing everything that Obama accomplished but into projecting him as the dark, evil overlord of the deep state seeking to undermine all that is good, white and holy in the mythical land of Trump.
And so, Trump’s Daughter-wife and her husband move into the White House (West Wing offices), and this is reversed into Valerie Jarrett moving in with the Obamas in order to subvert the Trump presidency. And Susan Rice is Bannon/Flynn combined.
And the sad thing is that Trump’s supporters eagerly eat this stuff up. I really wonder what, if anything, would shake them from their iron faith in the Orange Emptiness.
The Moar You Know
@rikyrah: We’re talking Democrats. They answer is, of course, “no”.
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Oh okay, even less reason to go there.
Jeffro
OT but man the L.A. Times is laying the wood to Trumpov’s lies…today is part 2 of their four-part series and it’s called “Why Trump Lies”
schrodingers_cat
@The Moar You Know: We won’t forget because T won’t let us forget. But thanks for your preemptive defeatism.
Jeffro
@Brachiator:
Probably only a Greg Stillson ‘human shield’ moment (a la The Dead Zone), unfortunately. And maybe not even then.
Barbara
@Jeffro: You should definitely ask your dad what it means to have Paul Manafort and a significant percentage of the most notorious Russian mafioso living in Trump properties. I mean if everywhere there is smoke there is fire, then Trump Towers is a red hot ball of flame.
Adam L Silverman
@clay: possibly
Chris
@rikyrah:
Not fourth? Or is fourth reserved for “caused a civil war”/”caused a worldwide economic depression that not only destroyed the country but may have kicked off World War Two” levels of “bad?”
Doug R
@Brachiator: There’s a LOT of money to be made rebuilding a new efficient sustainable infrastructure. It’s a better business model than whatever the Koch Bros have in mind anyway.
Applejinx
@D58826:
A murderous catamite in a classic Film Noir movie. Basically, the idea is that he’s not sincere and takes it up the ass from Putin and that’s the only reason he says anything he says: that he is completely fake, representing nothing but Russian sabotage.
This is why it pisses me off so completely when people call my Socialist senator, Bernie Sanders, ‘Wilmer’. You can’t say a goddam thing critical of Hillary Clinton, but oh it’s just fine to suggest Bernie takes it up the butt from Putin and fawningly serves his every whim! Very angering. I’m sure that’s why they do it but this is why I just cannot assume the Democrats are necessarily any better than the Republicans, even SEEING what the hell the latter are up to. Pick your poison, I guess. They’re all poison, coasting on bullshit from decades and centuries ago.
Chris
@Iowa Old Lady:
That’s exactly what it is.
rikyrah
Trump’s acrimony with U.S. intelligence agencies is far from over
04/03/17 12:56 PM—UPDATED 04/03/17 01:01 PM
By Steve Benen
There have been conflicts between presidents, presidential candidates, and U.S. intelligence agencies, but Americans have arguably never seen the kind of ongoing acrimony between Donald Trump and intelligence professionals.
There’s no real question as to who threw the first punch. As a candidate, Trump said he wouldn’t trust the information he receives from American intelligence officials. “I won’t use them because they’ve made such bad decisions,” the Republican said before the election. When agencies provided Trump with proof of Russian interference in the election, he not only rejected their findings; he publicly mocked the CIA.
The tensions continued for months, prompting the Washington Post’s Michael Gerson, a former George W. Bush speechwriter, to describe Trump’s criticisms as “an insanely dangerous antic that materially undermines American security.” Michael Hayden, a former director of the NSA and CIA, had a related piece, raising practical concerns about the deteriorating relationship between the amateur president and the intelligence community.
It didn’t help matters when the White House reportedly leaked sensitive information to House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) last week, as part of a clumsy scheme to bolster one of Trump’s conspiracy theories.
The Associated Press reported over the weekend on one of Team Trump’s more provocative ideas, which would almost certainly make a bad situation worse.
It’s hard to overstate just how bad an idea this would be.
Jeffro
@Barbara:
It’s weird…dad’s already acknowledged that Flynn was probably one of many links between Trumpov’s campaign and Russia, that Manafort is dirty, and that Trumpov himself has probably been laundering money for the Russian mob for quite some time. But dangle some Fox nonsense in front of him – Valerie Jarret moving in with the Obamas! Or, god help us, anything to do with the Clintons – and he’s right back at square one.
It’s just basic conditioning: take people predisposed to over-react to fearful impulses and keep hammering their buttons. They can’t think rationally, and every fearful thing they’re presented with tells their brain they were right to be afraid in the first place.
Wasn’t it DougJ or someone a couple days ago that said America had a nervous breakdown on 9/11 and hasn’t recovered? Well, half of America, yeah. They’ve been on high alert for sixteen years now…their amygdalas must look like Kingsford briquets at the end of a long bbq…
Elie
@rikyrah:
IMHO what will get Trump is the volume and scale of fuckups… He and his “team” can’t find their asses with two hands. We are damned lucky we have not been tested with a real emergency — yet. I am convinced these people wouldn’t know what to do and their confusion and mixed signals would make everything tons worse. That will not win popularity contests. Now, if they were mastering their situation and demonstrating that they had some sort of ability to manage, things might be different. They are scary incompetent and oblivious however….
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Suddenly finding themselves in showers emitting green liquid with the doors locked and barred.
Anything short of that, the sheep will follow the goats without question.
Jeffro
@rikyrah: What could go wrong? I thought he had a “very good brain” and often takes his own advice.
bemused
@Barbara:
Another question I’d have is if dad would have been perturbed if Presidents Carter, Clinton or Obama had been a Putin fan, Russian business investments and White House teams with this many Russian connections.
Brachiator
If this has not happened already, a front pager needs to lay down a link and notes on the Guardian’s great long read on Hillary Clinton.
The author throws down one hell of a gauntlet:
By the way, I disagree with her to some degree about Sanders’ actual impact on the election, but I don’t think that anyone can deny that the rancor and division is real, and threatens to undermine the Democrats. I also believe that even though Sanders was not as culpable as some make him out to be, he is blind to the issue and makes things worse by his refusal to consider anything other than his personal crusade to transform the Democratic Party.
In any event, this is only part of a very good long read.
ETA: Between this and the LA Times editorials, there is some great and thought provoking stuff out there.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
Surely nothing could possibly go wrong with this brilliant idea……
Chris
@Jeffro:
Liberal Derangement Syndrome is a hell of a drug.
Chet Murthy
@Applejinx:
Oh puhleez. Proof?
Corner Stone
@Applejinx:
The cougar, puma, mountain lion or aka catamount can indeed be quite dangerous. I would not say murderous, however. More like it’s just in their nature to attack, especially when cornered or wounded.
ETA, and barring any releases from the naughty filter, I would like to take a moment to remind everyone that this is Sparta.
Major Major Major Major
@Applejinx: You gonna open a ranch with the corpses of all those straw men you just slaughtered?
Doug R
@Brachiator: Don’t see why they can’t basically do the Hong Kong thing and return the rock.
TenguPhule
@Applejinx:
Uh, its not that hard.
One side is OPENLY COMMITTING TREASON.
So swallow your butthurt and focus your fire on the actual farking enemy.
Miss Bianca
@Applejinx: Dude, just…enough. You’re the one maintaining that your vaunted Senator is a murderous catamite. Why you have so much invested in that narrative, I don’t know. But then, with you, it always seems to be all about projection of your psychological kinks and fetishes onto the rest of the commenters here. Enough of your nauseous cant, it’s tiresome.
amk
@Applejinx:
Is anyone or anything stopping wilmer & his fanbois starting their own pure left party? Oh, that’s right, lack of guts and flow of money.
Major Major Major Major
@amk:
And, you know, members.
sharl
@rikyrah: I saw a very skillfully composed tweet illustrating the dangers of letting raw intel bypass the analysts and go straight to top political leadership:
Miss Bianca
@Brachiator: thanks for the link!
Corner Stone
Dude, seriously. 300+ comments and *nothing* about a honeypot?
germy
@Corner Stone: Jesus! I wish I hadn’t googled catamite. With the new internet anti-privacy laws just signed in, I think I fucked up my reputation with both my IP and everyone it sells my info to.
SFAW
@Chet Murthy:
That’s just Applejinx’s latest hobby horse. All the BJers who use “Wilmer” are actually raging homophobes, because in The Maltese Falcon Elisha Cook Jr.’s “Wilmer” character was Sydney Greenstreet’s catamite or some such, and therefore something-something-something.
As with most of Applejinx’s deep thoughts, best to ignore it/them.
schrodingers_cat
In the second debate when T brought out the parade of Bill Clinton’s other women to humiliate HRC. She should have just walked off. Not smiled and shared the podium with man who sought to humiliate her for her husband’s infidelities.
Corner Stone
@germy: What’s the problem? Nature in all its glory is nothing to be ashamed of! Large predator cats can be beautiful. As long as they are not trying to drag your child off into the bushes.
randy khan
@Applejinx:
So far as I can tell, nobody is suggesting any of the things you say they’re suggesting about the Senator. You’re the one who found the supposed connection to that theory (which is, ah, tenuous) and frankly the only reason I even remember it is that you keep bringing it up.
schrodingers_cat
@SFAW: Thanks for explaining, I didn’t understand the original comment at all. I haven’t seen Maltese Falcon.
germy
@Corner Stone: That ain’t what I saw on google.
Nothing about cats.
I wonder what sort of ads will pop up on my screen now.
LurkerNoLonger
@Applejinx: Fuck you, asshole.
germy
@schrodingers_cat: I would have liked an audience full of stiffed contractors and durmp university graduates.
Brachiator
@Doug R:
It’s a Falklands kinda thing.
Also, the return of Hong Kong was a political betrayal. The Chinese are slowly killing any dream of anything resembling democracy on Hong Kong. But China is powerful, and in the end no one really gives a shit about the small population there.
SFAW
@amk:
The alleged homophobia on BJ has infected the entire Democrat Party, which is NO BETTER THAN the Republican Party, because Applejinx’s Deep Thoughts tell me so.
I think I may nominate an AJ post for a Bulwer-Lytton Award, because reasons.
randy khan
@rikyrah:
This is why I am trying to keep people engaged with specific actions that will maintain their interest. It’s a long slog to November 2018, and engagement is one way to keep up the enthusiasm.
I almost wish the House would take another swing at health care, say in May or June.
Corner Stone
@SFAW:
We, the legion of Wilmer Catamounts are on to you, buster!
SFAW
@schrodingers_cat:
Elisha Cook was somewhat scary in it. A far cry from his role as Samuel T. Cogley.
Doug R
@Applejinx: I dunno. All that sandbagging, I think you just made the case for Wilmer.
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
Damn! You saw through my clever ruse!
Unfortunately, I don’t have a Snidely Whiplash mustache to twirl. Double damn!
Applejinx
@randy khan: Only reason I remember it or give a fuck is, I was willingly going along with that for WEEKS believing I was being civilized and helping Balloon Juice stay free of fans of Bernie Sanders and his continually repeated agenda against the millionaires and billionaires. I thought I was being very decent. Then I learned where ‘Wilmer’ came from, not that most people care, and realized that in order to curry favor with people who HATE ME loudly and openly and constantly, I was going along with a particularly nasty prank.
So, I think less of the Democrats here (and I’m not hearing great things about Democrats in general: just about anybody I know is pretty disillusioned by now) and when I see it come up, I mention that it is Bernie Sanders they’re talking about.
GREAT outreach, guys. Sometimes people show you who they are. (which is not to say you can’t have coalitions with the horrible, and I would prefer to align with the Dem horrible, but it seems to be a continually evolving process)
Chet Murthy
@SFAW:
That’s …. wow. Just. Wow. I had completely forgotten that the gunsel’s name was Wilmer, and I sure don’t remember intimations that he was Gutman’s catamite. Takes some serious issues to dig that up, seems to me. Serious issues.
Also doesn’t actually prove that that’s why the name was chosen, eh, @Applejinx: ??
So, uh, proof? Or is SFAW right (as I’m inclined to believe)?
SFAW
@Miss Bianca:
Nice to see the word used correctly for a change.
The rest of your comment was good, too, of course.
Mnemosyne
@Applejinx:
Uh, yeah, that’s not what happened. But I realize you’re never going to believe that since you’ve gotten yourself all wound up with a new conspiracy theory.
I was here when the Wilmer protocol was decided. You’ve put WAY more thought into it that anyone who proposed the name did.
Chris T.
@germy: The trick is to google everything. Then no one can tell what you care about, because you look up everything. Dogs, cats, rocket surgery, brain science, gum, dirt, the name of that extra in that movie, quantum chemistry, …
Mike in DC
I think plenty of criticism of Clinton is valid. The line of argument that she’s a corrupt sellout corporatist neoliberal shill/hawk, not so much. Which seems to be the argument of 95+% of BoBers.
The other point is that it would be nice if more BS diehards were to admit that they all got played to some extent by the Russian fake news/trolling op.
Also, of course, acknowledging the centrality of POC to the party and that their concerns are neither “side issues” nor obstacles to winning over the WWC.
Chet Murthy
@Applejinx:
One presumes that you have a link to a comment or post from the BJ archives, to back this up? I mean, where you “learned” this? B/c otherwise, it sure looks like you pulled it out of …. oh, sorry, can’t go there, you might take offense *grin*.
If you don’t have such a link, it sure will look like projection …..
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: You are a truly ridiculous person who thinks exclusively truly ridiculous things.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: This is like Pizzagate level nonsense. You should be embarrassed of yourself. I mean, more than you usually should.
TenguPhule
@Applejinx:
Keep telling yourself that while your internet history is sold for a song and open to the public view.
The Moar You Know
@FlipYrWhig: Donald Trump IRL?
A Ghost to Most
@Doug R:
Somebody came here spoiling for a fight about Wilmer, even if she had to start it herself
Pro tip, AJ: BJ has moved on. You should too. Stop fighting two battles ago.
LurkerNoLonger
@Applejinx: Fuck you, asshole.
TenguPhule
@Corner Stone: No sexists here. No Sirree.
Idiots and trolls though, we got plenty.
tybee
@Applejinx:
how odd. democrats here think much less of you.
FlipYrWhig
@The Moar You Know: I was thinking more Tracy Morgan as Tracy Jordan, but admittedly there are some similarities.
cosima
Here’s a crazy new development via the WSJ: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?tid=a_breakingnews&utm_term=.86689f7ac4a9
I’m totally shocked that venal/evil/shitheel/scumsuckingpig Erik Prince is involved.
Applejinx
@Mike in DC:
I don’t know how hawkish she would have been. This was not a dealbreaker to me.
I don’t think she’s any more corrupt than anybody else in Washington including Bernie (who I suspect is a millionaire himself, but hey: maybe it makes him rage harder, out of guilt, or understand the situation better through being complicit and seeing what it gets him). That’s not to say the whole system isn’t fucked, and it is.
Neoliberal is defined by the Clinton Third Way stuff which was politically effective for its time. It has never stopped being effective in a sense, and that is a problem. I don’t think it’s proven that Hillary drove that bus, but as far as corporatist and neoliberal? If you think she wasn’t in that hip deep you’d have to think Bill ran the show. I don’t think so. I think in the Clinton administration, Hillary had a huge, huge role and was just the sort of powerful female politician that she continued to be, and there has NEVER been a time when she was like a ‘Mrs. Pence’ feckless ‘little woman’. Hell no. She has always been smart and capable and running things and has made her choices. Some of them I love and some of them I simply hate. I do not like the neoliberal agenda, and it has never left us.
And shill? Please. At her power level there is no shill. It’s only the incredibly rich and powerful, running things to the detriment of everyone else. She has been in control, and only wishes to be in control. Shill, my ass. She was as much in charge as any petrochemical or fracking CEO, and knew it.
TenguPhule
@Applejinx:
I have bad news for you. The new AG wants to know what you’re smoking.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: Keep trying and eventually you’ll be totally winning that argument against 1996, dude.
Miss Bianca
@Applejinx: you’ve been busy showing us who you are for weeks, and some of us are heartily sick of it. Take your creepy obsessions and projections elsewhere if you find the snarling Democratic catamounts here so distasteful.
@SFAW: We live to serve! ; )
SFAW
@Chet Murthy:
I’m just repeating the alleged reasoning behind a certain moron’s batch of vitriol. It’s been a long time since I saw Falcon, I don’t recall picking up that kind of vibe, but on the other hand, who gives a shit? I certainly don’t.
But some people feel the need to tell BJers that they all suck because Bernie is not idolized.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: THAT INTERSECTIONAL FEMINIST FROM THE 1970S AND 1980S WAS REALLY A SHADOW PRESIDENT PETROCHEMICAL CEO NEOLIBERAL WAIT IM WICKED SERIOUS ALSO DID I MENTION DISILLUSIONED
Chet Murthy
@SFAW:
Yep, not pickin’ on you. I was just *curious* as to whether AJ had actual documentary evidence of what would be … um … pretty deplorable behaviour. I kinda figured not. But hey, you never can tell.
A Ghost to Most
@Corner Stone: catamount/catamite, let’s call the whole thing off.
D58826
One more rogue to join the growing gallery
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.17f32fa820fb
Major Major Major Major
@Applejinx:
That’s funny, I usually define things by using a dictionary.
Chet Murthy
OT: Y’know, I’m -so- looking forward to Susan Rice’s countermove. Some up-thread said that the takedown would be brutal, if she got called to testify, and could lay out exactly why she was unmasking various R critters. Oboy, I’d pay for tickets that show!
Patricia Kayden
@Humboldtblue: That’s good to hear. Some Dems have a little bit of a backbone, I see.
Chris
@Applejinx:
And that “neoliberal” crap might be impressive if the party hadn’t shifted rather noticeably to the left over eight years of Obama. It’s not the 1990s anymore, and the platform Hillary ran on is not the platform of the DLC.
What in God’s holy name are you blathering about?
TenguPhule
@D58826: We could really save a lot of time and court costs by simply declaring every single person Trump has hired or associated with since running for office a traitor and forcing them to prove otherwise.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
As someone pointed out, there is a Socialist Party in Vt, Wilmer won’t join it, and I can’t imagine they miss him.
Patricia Kayden
@schrodingers_cat: Secretary Clinton won all three debates so maybe she didn’t want to appear shaken by Trump’s stupid antics. Trump was just going low like he always does. Didn’t appear to phase her.
Steve in the ATL
@germy:
Please keep us updated on what ads you get now on FB and other sites!
TenguPhule
@A Ghost to Most: Catastrophe.
/now there was a bad audio pun
Mike in DC
@Applejinx:
Whatever her alleged neoliberal agenda might be, it was largely not reflected in her stated policy positions, nor in the party platform.
Patricia Kayden
@cosima: Secretary Devos’ brother to boot. These people are so sleazy. I think most of us are going to be shocked when the ish starts to really hit the fan.
Major Major Major Major
@Mike in DC: so you’re saying Hillary’s supposed ‘neoliberal’ agenda has the same level of supporting evidence as Trump’s supposed moderate-ness on LGBT rights.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Chris
@D58826:
Erik Prince, already known buddy of the Chinese, now known buddy of the Russians, eh?
I’m starting to think that privatizing and outsourcing the shit out of the defense sector might have been just as bad an idea when we did it with Blackwater and Halliburton as it was two thousand years ago when the Roman Empire did it with Germanic mercenaries.
(Well, okay. Not really “starting.” I could’ve done without all the “being proven right” part of things, though).
A Ghost to Most
@Patricia Kayden:
I will be shocked if it does all fall apart, and the minions start to realize that they’ve been had. I’m kind of worried they will act like they did when they finally soured on W; pretend t.coli just isn’t really one of them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@TenguPhule: a cataclysm!
@FlipYrWhig: I love that story. Whatever else is true of Wilmer, always remember this: He’s an asshole. If I win the powerball I just might hire that British MI-6 guy to put together an oppo file. Out of pure fucking spite.
jl
Speaking of old bald men fighting over a comb….
Chris
@A Ghost to Most:
Oh, totally they will. It’ll help that they have a lot of “he’s not a real conservative” stuff from the primaries lying around.
germy
@FlipYrWhig: That book came out last year. I think if berni had won the nom, fox news would have been all over it.
As it turned out, they saw no need.
cosima
@Patricia Kayden: One could wonder how a family produces such levels of evil, but I prefer not to ponder that & have it mucking up by brain space.
I dream of orange suits for them all with silver bracelets as accessories.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The oppo file was already put together. They just had no reason to use it.
It was a thick volume, according to one account. They raked over everything he did and wrote over the last fifty + years. It would have been ugly.
EDIT: Of course, I’m sure they made up some bullshit to go with the facts, just to spice things up.
Steve in the ATL
@Applejinx: I’ve read a lot of your posts over the years and some are quite cogent, while some are unnecessarily hostile and accusatory. I have no idea what triggers each type of post, but hopefully you can figure out what derails you and how to counter it.
But you have to understand the frustration, even anger, that many of us have toward [Wilmer] and the [Wilmer]-or-bust crew. Our nation is facing an existential threat right now, and [Wilmer] is still undermining the only political party in the country that is fighting it, and the [Wilmer]-or-bust crew is still relitigating the primary that [Wilmer] lost by a large margin and actively undermining the only political party in the country that is fighting the existential threat. For the foregoing reasons, expect a highly negative response when you post that stuff here. This isn’t Firedoglake or a Daily Kos diary.
And please don’t tell anyone I was nice to you about this–I don’t want to get a good reputation
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: I have a fine head of hair, TYVM.
Brachiator
@Applejinx:
Bill Clinton was elected governor and president. Hillary was not. Hillary Clinton couldn’t run anything, even if you believe in the deep fantasy that she was co-president. I guess some people want to look at her as some kind of shadow president. But the bottom line is that any speculation about how Hillary Clinton would have governed as president is based on projection of that person’s own wishes and dreams.
A Ghost to Most
@cosima:
Dream big! I’m thinking of Saddam-grade (to him, not by him) executions for treason. Leave a bit more slack in the line.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yeah, but why would Republicans release it now. Wilmer’s out there attacking the Dems for them
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: You are of the house if Hillary and I am a Bernista. We will meet at Kettleman City at dawn and fight to the death. Or, you ‘Sir’ are a coward.
germy
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Exactly. He’s useful, which is why he finds himself getting so much attention from villagers lately. It’s not because of his ideas on single payer. They want to hear more about Clinton and the democrats.
Doug R
@jl: It’s just a flesh wound!
TenguPhule
@A Ghost to Most: No, that was a travesty. A quick clean and by the book military style execution following a conviction in a recognized court of law that doesn’t turn him into a farking martyr for the Rightwing facists.
One of the many things I want Bush punished for, only he could turn the death of Saddam Hussein into an absolute farce that made him more popular in death then he was in life.
Brachiator
@Steve in the ATL:
Didn’t the Democrats send Sanders out to rally for them on April 1, or was that an April Fool’s joke?
In any event, Sanders ain’t your problem. There have always been a group of Democrats who were attracted to a certain type of “pure” candidate. In my historical political memory, that included Gene McCarthy, the first incarnation of Jerry Brown, Jesse Jackson and others. Obama was one of the rare candidates that brought all the factions together, but Sanders, even with his faults, is not the root of all evil.
dogwood
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Actually joining a party requires taking some responsibility. It also means working with others and for others to advance an agenda. He was an economic freeloader in his youth; and he’s been a political freeloader since coming to D.C.
A Ghost to Most
@TenguPhule:
They are going to become martyred saints to some people (cough brother cough) anyway.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: I don’t do mornings.
ETA: I still have a fine head of hair.
D58826
@Applejinx:
Given the number of official and unofficial investigation of the Clintons and how little they have produced they might be the two most squeaky clean pols in Washington. That is a bit tongue in cheek but if they are as corrupt as the critics claim, then they must be the two smartest people on the planet
TenguPhule
@A Ghost to Most: But I expect those people to feel oppressed anyway, what with being branded traitors to the USA and being forced to flee to Russia.
D58826
@TenguPhule: Well when it all catches up with them it certainly will be a booming business for private prison cells. Or maybe GITMO?
Brachiator
Some of the lefties at the Guardian love Bernie, think he represents the future, and make their case here: Everyone loves Bernie Sanders. Except, it seems, the Democratic party A bit of what author Trevor Timm says:
I think Timm oversimplifies and I am not and have never been a Bernie supporter, but I think that this is a fair presentation of what those who like him think about him and the Democratic Party.
randy khan
@Applejinx:
But you made all of that up – it’s quite evident that nobody had any idea of connection between the word “gunsel” and catamites, which is no surprise because the common usage of that uncommon word has nothing to do with such things.
It’s sort of the inverse of the people who insist that a common insult for gay men actually refers to a bundle of sticks. It’s technically true, but not how the word is used. If you need to go the dictionary to find a particular meaning, claiming that somebody else intended that meaning requires some proof of intent.
HRA
This is the the truth of the entire Wilmer agenda IMO ” not because he chose to run against Hillary Clinton, but because of how he ran against her.”
This was first evident to me when he said “I don’t give a damn about your emails.” He set the atmosphere for the debate by saying it right at the start.
As a veteran election campaign worker, I wanted her to nail him with it. The same is true about his continuous blathering about the speeches.
DT had originally made the statement at about Bill’s infidelities at one of his rallies. This should have been sincerely spoken about ASAP. There is no actual count of how many women have been in the same position. Suffice to say there are many and they are voters.
One more thought and I will go back to lurk/reading position.
Wilmer has to shut up.
.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a dictionary that includes archaic meanings from a 150 years ago.
debbie
Adam, that clip of Corn is the one cheery it in this thread. Thanks. Regardless of the misstated tweets, it still doesn’t change the fact that all these guys were communicating with Russian authorities and were being paid by those authorities. How does Trump explain that? Who will ask him?
NR
@Steve in the ATL:
I rather think the Democratic party did a very thorough job of undermining itself when it lost 1,000 legislative seats to the Republicans over the last eight years. But no, the real problem is a few lefties calling them out for their fuckups, apparently.
One would think that the abject failure of the “shut up and clap louder” strategy would be obvious by now, but I guess some people still don’t get it.
Miss Bianca
@Brachiator: Gee, I wonder why the Democrats don’t love Wilmer…
Could it be that instead of attacking Trump and Trumpism, he spends his time attacking…Democrats?
Could it be that his equivocation on whether a commitment to reproductive choice or gun control is actually a necessary component of being a viable Democratic candidate is kind of offensive to actual Democrats?
Could it be that his trying to take over the Democratic Party – without being an actual member – and then his most rabid fans’ continued yapping about “we wuz ROBBED” – is kind of offensive to actual Democrats?
Could it be that the man whose words always speak louder than his actions when it comes to a choice between promoting himself as the One True Progressive(tm) and you know, actually working with people to promote the progressive agenda he claims to want is…kind of offensive to actual Democrats?
Nah! That’s crazy talk!
Miss Bianca
@NR: So, when are all these lefties going to show us the way, NotRussian? When are they going to usher in the Grand and Glorious People’s Revolution? Because, you know, The People are clamoring for it, right? All those progressive candidates who were swept to power in the last election! Why there were…um, actually…not one.
But, you know, we’re the ones who are saying “clap louder”.
How’s your campaign for office coming? I’m sure you’re working hard on it. You’re out there whipping your local Democratic Party into shape, right? Of course, right! Oh, right…I forgot. The Democrats are all neoliberal shills who won’t listen to you. How convenient! – I mean, oh, how sad! SAD!
NR
@Miss Bianca:
This is from last week.
As is this.
Really, the lies you guys tell about Bernie Sanders are just pathetic at this point.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@NR: Whatever you say, Boris.
Brachiator
@Miss Bianca:
Great points. Sanders is a lousy excuse for a Democrat. But if has any appeal to voters, regular Democrats have to find a way to channel it, contain it, or commandeer it and use it to their benefit. Otherwise, it makes any kind of comeback harder.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Miss Bianca: Kay points out whenever this comes up; run a candidate for governor of MI or OH. If they win, we’ll listen. Show us how it’s done.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Ben Jealous is running for gov of MD, a normally blue state with a very popular (right now) R governor. Might be clarifying
Nina Turner, who has star billing at the upcoming festival of righteousness in Chicago, ran for SoS in OH, lost by more than 20 points
Applejinx
@Steve in the ATL: You know, that’s fine. I’m not a bit offended when BJ collectively flips out at me. It does make me curious what triggers it: this time it seems like the trigger is the notion that people could get pissed off and just abandon the Democratic Party and politics in general. I sure hinted that loudly. I could see that happening. Damn if I can tell whether it’s a disaster or just saves time. Depends on whether Democrats are up to speed with changes in our country or defending those who have wrecked it.
I was paying bills while listening to Chapo Trap House and posting to BJ. No surprise that it turned ugly, really. I wrote checks to pay more than a thousand dollars worth of bills, I’m amazed I even could. Some of that was to an insurance company. I really believe insurance companies are now a private tax on doing anything, and a really damn steep one, where it’s very unwise (if you’re poor) to ever try and make a claim because they’ll just punish you or refuse to pay or both. It’s like extortion, and legally compelled in some cases.
My porch got hit by my neighbor’s car, a month ago, and is half destroyed. Her insurance adjusters came out and specifically decided to fuck me because I couldn’t probably afford to sue them, and they figured they could send not even enough to do a shitty job not to code. Wasn’t me who hit the porch, but it is me who is too poor to contend with them. They will win and bear no responsibility for what their client did.
I’m not thrilled about writing a big check to my own insurance company. I did talk to ’em to see if they would be involved. They figure I must pay a deductible to involve them, so that’s a deal breaker, and if it involved a claim I am sure they’d jack up their bills hugely because I’m not in a position to fight them. It always comes down to money, always. I paid them, though I know better than ever to NOT file no matter what happens. It’s always about ‘those with a lot of money can do anything at all to those without’.
Enough, nobody cares, partly because people here put economic insecurity in scare quotes and fuck off to their summer homes, and PARTLY because I have no problem playing the bad guy and expect no quarter in return. Whatever.
It does make me really depressed to be a registered Democrat. I would really like to hate you folks but where else is there to go? This is a two party system. There IS no other option but dropping out: supporting Republicans is pretty pants-on-head-retarded at this point (in Yahtzee’s happy phrase). So I get out my frustration by lashing out here (when annoyed: how would YOU lot react if this crowd was merrily talking about setting up a PAC to ensure Chelsea Clinton never entered public life in any way?) and I know that means a permanent black mark. Whatever.
It also shows me who’s genteel and who is just a damn troll. And I figure some of them are actually Russian simply because driving wedges is what ya do when you’re a paid agent of lulz.
This country had a pretty good run. There’s no shame in admitting that we can’t continue, that we’re done. Let China be the hub, I guess. We’re not going to survive this, nobody is remotely capable of righting this shipwreck.
I see I can summon NR. Huh. I shall be cautious about responding to annoyance with my Senator’s name in future, and won’t do it unless I figure it’s worth the nuclear option. _I_ will not be calling my guy ‘Wilmer’. I still think that’s an insult. What else would it be?
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Good point, even though you are a HillarycRAT.
Sanders rouses crowds and has a following but he blew at coming up with convincing policy proposals that can be enacted, or even hold up to scrutiny during a campaign (which is a low bar), as he showed in his primary campaign. If he wants to compete with the DNC on national stage, his movement needs to start winning some state and Congressional elections.
On the other hand, DNC and Hillary Clinton, and her campaign people, are about as bad at winning elections as Sanders. Main thing I dislike about Hillary Clinton is that she managed to squeak out a defeat. I believe her lousy skills at electoral politics played a substantial role in her defeat in addition to all the other problems. And the scorn heaped on Sanders here has the smell of bitter losers getting off on calling other losers losers.
But if either of these two run again for president in 2020, we are in some trouble. So maybe time to move on?
TenguPhule
@Applejinx: If you’re not going to try and sue for damages, don’t expect sympathy here. Like Trump supporters, you don’t have anyone to blame but yourself for the reaming you’ve willingly bent over for.
dogwood
@Brachiator:
I think Democrats in Washington have been more than fair to Sanders throughout his career. And they seem to be handling him just fine now, because he’s never going to change and they know that.
Applejinx
@TenguPhule: With what money? Is that the answer, seriously? ‘call my lawyer’?
Applejinx
@jl: Any time anybody in my presence says ‘Sanders 2020’ I say ‘OH FUCK NO’, we need younger people.
I sure don’t need to add that I would feel the same about Hillary 2020, but I don’t see that suggested. Maybe I’m not hanging out in the right crowds, maybe that trial balloon gets floated. It sure isn’t popular with anybody I ever see.
dm
@Miss Bianca:
Like, for example, raising millions in small donations to elect Democrats to the House, Senate, and state legislatures? He did that, last Summer and Fall. I suspect that’s why the Democrats in the Senate made him their outreach chair. Those are actions. I don’t know what of his words are louder than that, since I’m mostly a print-media person.
As to electing a governor in Mississippi, well, he was down campaigning with striking workers in Mississippi a while back. That might help get us closer.
TenguPhule
@Applejinx: You’ve never heard of contingency basis? If the facts are as good as you say they are, a half-decent lawyer would be more then happy to make enough trouble on your behalf to get the insurance people to cough up a decent chunk of change to settle.
If you’re not even going to try to fight, don’t complain about it to us.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t know that he was ever this big a dick before. I think the applause and the veneration went to his head, like somebody else form the last cycle.
Oh, look, a new hall monitor. What a treat
Jim, Foolish Literalist
show me the names and the numbers
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: You want to move on, yet you still have a shiv. Yet I will take the cuts to by dignity and move on as you suggest. I really do think, and I’ve said before in these very virtual pages, that we only should revisit the primary contest when we have sufficient data to do an autopsy.
That said, if folk that supported the one who must not be named have some ideas as far as outreach, as Kay says, RUN for a statewide office. The DNC will pay attention.
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: You are just such a repellent, self-dramatizing little fuckface, like your hero Bernie Sanders. And the worst part of it is that you believe every fool thing you say, because you’re all kinds of fucked up, whereas NR just says one thing, because he is just plain stupid.
dm
@Steve in the ATL:
I try to understand this, but when he’s out there raising money for Democratic candidates to Congress and state offices, doing outreach for them, I really have trouble see what constitutes “undermining”.
As far as I can tell “he’s just in it for self-promotion” is the same bullshit that was tossed at Hillary Clinton for twenty-five years by Republicans.
Baud
This thread is officially a train wreck, but God forbid it fails to achieve a T-Bogg status because I didn’t comment in it. #DoingMyPart
waysel
@Baud: Wel, since ya put it that way……
FlipYrWhig
@dm: Yeah, a SDS relic favored by poseur radicals who thinks he knows about the struggles of the working class because he’s willing to have stupid hair and a stupid voice in public is really the last best hope for not only liberalism but civilization.
waysel
@FlipYrWhig: Nicely stated, FlipYrWhig.
dm
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I did last week, but you’d probably timed out on the thread then.
After the convention:
Before the convention:
Stop looking a gift-horse in the mouth.
“We’ll see”, he said when asked if he’d raise money for Democrats in March. By April, he had seen, and was raising money down-ballot. By the end of the summer, he was raising money for Congress and the Senate.
Applejinx
@Baud: It ought to be worth something! Toward the TBogg unit.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@dm:
so the man writes off the entire Obama presidency, but how does that undermine the Democratic Party?
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: I mentioned genteel?
Not you :)
FlipYrWhig
@waysel: Look, I’m being a dick, but, come ON, it’s so absurd to have to go through all this woe-is-me, everyone who criticizes Bernie Sanders is rich, “Wilmer” is like “sauce” because it’s all hidden messages about sex trafficking, sheer bullshit. Bernie Sanders is a well-meaning know-it-all like every old professor who refuses to wear a tie because it’s square, man. He’s a type, an irritating type, not a savior, not anything special, and getting all caught up in him as a phenomenon is just the thought process of a sucker.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Thank you for your service.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You get the horse to stop shitting in my tent, and we have a deal.
SFAW
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Whose? And do you keep it in the fridge, a la Cumberbatch’s Sherlock?
dm
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You read that as “writing off”, I read the second quote as a plausible description of a party that controls few legislatures and governorships, and which cannot motivate its supporters to get to the polls except in presidential elections.
How does ignoring that problem not undermine the party?
I’m a liberal elite myself, but have some sympathy for the first quote, provided it recognizes women’s issues and minority issues as also being working-class issues, and not afterthoughts.
FlipYrWhig
@dm: Democrats have done great things for the white working class. The white working class spat in their eye anyway. It’s not going to win votes. The candidate who cleaned up among the white working class the last time there was a contested Democratic primary was… Hillary Clinton. Fat lot of good that did.
dm
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
If life gives you compost, use it to raise flowers.
Steve in the ATL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Good lord, you are not kidding. He’s pretending not to notice that (1) the Democrats are the only ones who have helped the working class and (2) the white working class is racist AF.
dm
@Steve in the ATL: I think that interpretation of those words stretches them to the breaking point. This is why I said earlier I don’t understand the “undermining” talk. You people act like any criticism at all is “undermining”. I think it sometimes is strengthening.
And, who says the working class is only white (forgive me if I’m mis-construing your comments about “the white working class” vs. “the working class”)? One of the problems I had with Sanders was the way he would side-line feminist or racial issues as being almost entirely subsumed by economic issues — fix the economic and class issues and “those other issues” would be solved naturally. I think they were worth attention in their own right.
FlipYrWhig
@Steve in the ATL: Or (3) that his own base is by and large hipsters and hippies, or (4) that he has no connection to working class anything, representing a rural state with no industries and no people and having been an over-educated theoretician his entire political life. Where he gets the balls to act like Mr. Authentic Working Class is a mystery to me. Maybe he’s misunderstood the phrase “working slob.”
tkrr
So… yet another case of business as usual (at least as usual as it can be in this fiasco), blown up into a scandal by the right-wing media.
tybee
@Applejinx: small claims court. if you really have a case. or you could just continue to whine.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
In other words, he believed the propaganda put out by Republicans and the Coal Association about coal being crushed by Liberal Environmentalists, who care not for the working miners, but just want to crush their lives, and are using fake hoax climate bullshit as an excuse to ruin the lives of hard working white boys in the coal country.
All bullshit, of course. Gas is cheaper, and economics works out that the cheaper source of raw material wins the markets. Plus in “Coal Country” they’ve been mining since the late 1800s, well over a century. How much coal do you think is out there in “Coal Country” to be mined?? And how good is it?
The best coal was mined 100 years ago. Mediocre coal was all mined out 50 years ago. Now most of the crummy coal is gone. The Giant Mountain Top Removal strip mines have run their mines down flat, to the very bottom tiny seam of coal, and all the way across their permit boundaries.
That’s when you HAVE to shut the mine down, you’re out of product to produce!