Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

We still have time to mess this up!

I like you, you’re my kind of trouble.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

This blog will pay for itself.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

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Everybody saw this coming.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Syrian Arab Armed Forces Chemical Weapons Attack at Idlib

Syrian Arab Armed Forces Chemical Weapons Attack at Idlib

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It is being reported that earlier today Bashar al Assad’s Syrian Arab Armed Forces conducted a chemical weapons attack against targets in the city of Idlib. Here is video footage from inside a hospital at the moment of the attack:

The BBC is reporting:

At least 58 people have been killed and dozens wounded in a suspected chemical attack on a rebel-held town in north-western Syria, a monitoring group says.

Reuters reports:

The British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said the attack killed at least 58 people and was believed to have been carried out by Syrian government jets. It caused many people to choke, and some to foam at the mouth.

Director Rami Abdulrahman told Reuters the assessment that Syrian government warplanes were to blame was based on several factors such as the type of aircraft, including Sukhoi 22 jets, that carried out the raid.

“We deny completely the use of any chemical or toxic material in Khan Sheikhoun town today and the army has not used nor will use in any place or time neither in past or in future,” the Syrian army command said in a statement.

The Russian Defence Ministry said its aircraft had not carried out the attack. The U.N. Security Council was expected to meet on Wednesday to discuss the incident.

The official US response at this time is:

On Tuesday, the White House blamed the Syrian government for the attack, which it called a “reprehensible” act “that cannot be ignored by the civilized world.”

Sean Spicer, the White House spokesman, further told reporters that “these heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the last administration’s weakness and irresolution.”

Mr. Spicer declined to respond to questions about Mr. Trump’s declaration that his administration’s policy in Syria is not regime change.

“He is not here to telegraph what we are going to do, but rest assured he has been speaking with his national security team this morning,” Mr. Spicer said, adding later: “The statement speaks for itself.”

As of now (1430 EDT) there is still no statement on the Department of State’s website, nothing on the Department of State’s twitter feed, and nothing on Ambassador Haley’s twitter feed about the attack. Regardless, this morning’s chemical attack in Syria points to the complexity of the real strategic wicked problem on the Syrian side of the US led Coalition’s fight against ISIL. What happens after ISIL is defeated? How does the Coalition begin to set the conditions now to secure post conflict success in a Syria that has been liberated from ISIL? What does the Coalition do with the areas that it liberates from ISIL as the counter-ISIL operations in Syria are being conducted without the support and without an invitation from the Syrian government. These are the real strategic issues and concerns and they are brought back into the foreground by today’s chemical weapons attack and the denials from the government of Bashar al Assad and his Russian patron.

Reader Interactions

162Comments

  1. 1.

    Corner Stone

    Correct me if I am wrong…but I am sensing a Red Line somewhere around here.

  3. 3.

    encephalopath

    Tillerson comes from a world were he reports to the board of directors occasionally to give an update and shows up at the shareholder’s meeting once a year.

    He is supposed to be the face of US foreign policy to the now, but he can’t manage to talk to his own staff let alone put his face in front of a camera to do that job.

    The man is not a leader.

  4. 4.

    piratedan

    so…. it’s Obama’s fault that al-Assad launched a chemical attack on his own people?

    at what point does Obama decide to defend himself from this kind of libel?

  5. 5.

    Humboldtblue

    Welp, good thing we have a strong and competent leader in the White House and an excellent crop of foreign policy experts to handle these tough international crises.

    Not only is this Obama’s fault but he’s also been caught spying on Trump and now you libs will all be put in jail for being traitors to Trump. Just look at memeorandum and weep, libs, it’s off to a FEMA camp near you for a long sentence.

  6. 6.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Let’s not rush-in to any conclusions about who is responsible for this. It would be, um, not nice.

  7. 7.

    Mike J

    He gassed his own people! That used to be the phrase that pays. Automatically shut down all argument. But he’s a FoP[1], (not to mention the BernieBros idol, Gabbard) so it’s cool.

    [1]Friend of Putin.

  8. 8.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: Yes, but… In the case of the violation back in 2013 it was unclear who actually used the chemical weapons. It was reported that only one listening post, the Israeli one in the Golan, picked up the SIGINT that pointed to the Assad government. Given that GCHQ has the best coverage for that part of the world, that they didn’t pick it up is problematic. Beyond that, issuing red lines are stupid. They take away all of one’s flexibility. One of the poorer of President Obama’s foreign and security policy decisions.

  10. 10.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Daesh is laughing their asses off right now. They couldn’t have asked for a better situation even if they ordered it through Amazon Prime.

  12. 12.

    TenguPhule

    What happens after ISIL is defeated?

    Oh I know this one!

    ISIL II is born and begins the whole cycle all over again!

    And yeah, our State Dept is dead and we have no coherent foreign policy anymore.

  13. 13.

    JPL

    Spicer’s comments were not on camera, Trump and Tillerson did not comment. How long before Mr. only I can fix it say something Maybe Trump is waiting for his son-in-law to mention it.

    Laura also mentioned Jarad. Nothing is normal.

  14. 14.

    TenguPhule

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    They couldn’t have asked for a better situation even if they ordered it through Amazon Prime.

    Any day now I expect to see a story about Trump arming the “Good Daesh” who said nice things about him.

  17. 17.

    Kryptik

    Am I the only one who things it’s especially galling that Spicer laid blame at Obama’s feet, when Trump has repeatedly stated that he’s fine with Assad, because he’s ‘killing ISIS’?

  18. 18.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman: It wasn’t unclear if you have a long time friend who is Syrian and has lost three villages of family members…but given that anecdata aside, yes. The Red Line proclamation was getting way over the front of your skis by a man who is otherwise determined by his pragmatism.

  22. 22.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Corner Stone: I’m not disagreeing with you, but I think my point wasn’t clear: from a targeting perspective, if you don’t have clear intel with a high confidence assessment, then responding may be problematic. Additionally, President Obama asked Congress for formal authority to act and they refused. The minute that happened, there wasn’t going to be, and, to be honest, their shouldn’t be, any response.

  23. 23.

    Gravenstone

    @piratedan: It’s Obama’s “fault” because he didn’t take out Assad during his watch. Don’t ask me how doing that was supposed to make things better going forward, because power vacuums work out so well. But that’s what passes for logic in pass-the-buck Trumplandia.

  24. 24.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    We’re not going to survive all of this extremely dangerous incompetence. I don’t see how, when Republicans refuse to do anything about anything and Democrats can’t. The United States is now a rudderless pirate ship loaded with dynamite heading for rocks and we’re all trapped in the hold.

  25. 25.

    Chris

    “We deny completely the use of any chemical or toxic material in Khan Sheikhoun town today and the army has not used nor will use in any place or time neither in past or in future,” the Syrian army command said in a statement.

    Suspiciously specific denial? As long as it was, say, the air force who delivered it, he’s not technically lying.

  26. 26.

    Mike in DC

    FYI, they also bombed the hospital where the victims were being treated. So…where is Tulsi Gabbard on this one?

  28. 28.

    Lizzy L

    Typical of this administration that it chooses in its first statement about this reprehensible attack to blame the previous administration. Reminds me of all the folks after 9/11 who wanted to blame Bill Clinton.

    Nobody knew being president was so complicated!//sarcasm

  29. 29.

    Chris

    @piratedan:

    so…. it’s Obama’s fault that al-Assad launched a chemical attack on his own people?

    Better: Congress whined that Obama was being unconstitutional by undertaking military operations and making military commitments without consulting them, so he put the issue to them, and they then failed to do anything. This is, of course, Obama’s fault.

  30. 30.

    Chris

    @Mike J:

    He gassed his own people! That used to be the phrase that pays. Automatically shut down all argument.

    The surreal thing about that phrase is that when “he gassed his own people,” in 1989, the (first) Bush administration (which consisted of many of the same people who would be screaming “he gassed his own people!” in 2002/2003) tried to run cover for him by blaming the attack on Iran.

  31. 31.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Sean Spicer, the White House spokesman, further told reporters that “these heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the last administration’s weakness and irresolution.”

    And then the Trump administration will do something helpful for Assad, because Putin wants it. This is his method. Say what the audience wants to hear at the moment, lay all blame on someone he doesn’t like, and do whatever suits his greed, arrogance, or mean-spiritedness with no concern for whatever was said previously.

  32. 32.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Additionally, President Obama asked Congress for formal authority to act and they refused. The minute that happened, there wasn’t going to be, and, to be honest, their shouldn’t be, any response.

    That’s because our testosterone-impaired, metro-sexual “President” was too busy getting a manicure or trying on Mom Jeans to do any God Damned Thing About It!

    Ohhhh, that felt goooood. Now I’m getting it. Heroin spoon, see ya later. I got a new bang.

  33. 33.

    Waldo

    I am sure we can count on the president to tweet this matter with great seriousness.

  35. 35.

    Cacti

    But this can’t have happened.

    Trump’s friend Putin was safeguarding Syria’s chemical stockpile to prevent future use.

  38. 38.

    trollhattan

    Putin has put his reputation at stake in maintaining Assad in office and reacquiring lost territory (where have I heard that one before?) and thus, while State may make some beeping noises we won’t ultimately lift a finger. Putin bought this.

  40. 40.

    Cacti

    In 2020, Bernie will say that Assad’s Congressional mouthpiece is the only progressive choice for POTUS.

  41. 41.

    Turgidson

    Does the fact that Syria had the capacity for this kind of attack mean that they were bullshitting the world when they said they ditched their chemical weapons stockpile a few years back? It would seem they either made more, used a compound that wasn’t covered by the 2013 agreement, or made sure that not all of their stockpile was hauled away.

  42. 42.

    Goku

    @Chris: Well… b-b-but God Emperor Trump can never fail! Only you cuck liberals don’t want to acknowledge what an Alpha Male manly man he is and he gets stuff done! When we take over all of you cucks will be thrown into FEMA death camps! Then you’ll be sorry!

    /s just to be safe

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Waldo: Like he did back in 2013?

  44. 44.

    randy khan

    Two thoughts:

    First, of course State and the Ambassador to the U.N. have nothing to say. They’re both out of their depth and, more importantly, it would never occur to this Administration to have a coordinated response (or, for instance, to use Tillerson and Haley to work with other countries – I honestly wonder if Haley’s even met most of the relevant U.N. ambassadors yet.)

    Second, of course they’re going to blame Obama. They’re going to blame Obama for everything that goes wrong until the end of the Administration (and Trump will keep blaming him long after the Administration has ended). They hate the guy and they think it plays well with their base (which probably is true, although the size of the base appears to be declining).

  45. 45.

    TenguPhule

    @Turgidson:

    Does the fact that Syria had the capacity for this kind of attack mean that they were bullshitting the world when they said they ditched their chemical weapons stockpile a few years back?

    It depends. If this is new stock then technically no. If this is not one of the officially banned substances, again technically no.

  49. 49.

    NorthLeft12

    You know, just when you think Deadbeat Donald and his obnoxiously idiotic mouthpiece cannot sink any lower…….they do. I would call their behavior childish, but that is an insult to the children of the world.

    I just want them to disappear. I feel like I can’t watch/listen to the news or almost any news related program because of the inevitable mention of Trump and his odious band of cronies and their criminally ignorant actions.

  50. 50.

    Jeffro

    @laura:

    Has Jared issued a statement yet?

    I think he’s tied up hashing out a Israeli-Palestinian peace plan that is either a two-state or one-state solution, depending upon what the listener wants to hear. The man’s a marvel, I tell you!

  51. 51.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I know. He said “He gassed his own people! That used to be the phrase that pays,” and I assumed he was referring to Saddam and the Kurds, since I remember that phrase being used frequently in those days to justify OIF. (Doubly valuable phrase since it was proof that both 1) Saddam was crazy and dangerous and 2) Saddam clearly had WMDs at one point, so he must have them now). Apologies if that was not in fact what he was referring to…

  52. 52.

    Doug R

    @Gravenstone: But taking out Assad would be like Libya, where thousands died. Instead of like Syria where hundreds of thousands have died….Um …carry on

  54. 54.

    Goku

    @NorthLeft12:

    I just want them to disappear.

    You’re too kind. I just want them to all die. Preferably as painfully and slowly as possible

  56. 56.

    Adam L Silverman

    @randy khan:

  57. 57.

    germy

    @Jeffro:

    I think he’s tied up hashing out a Israeli-Palestinian peace plan that is either a two-state or one-state solution, depending upon what the listener wants to hear.

    Depending on what bibi wants to hear.

  59. 59.

    clay

    Sean Spicer, the White House spokesman, further told reporters that “these heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the last administration’s weakness and irresolution.”

    Sure. It must’ve been Obama, and certainly not anything to do with this (UN Ambassador Haley, 5 days ago):

    Our priority is no longer to sit there and focus on getting Assad out… We can’t necessarily focus on Assad the way that the previous administration did

    Or this (yesterday)

    “We agree on so many things,” Trump said of Sisi as the two leaders met inside the White House and shook hands. Sisi, Trump said, has “done a fantastic job in a very difficult situation. We are very much behind Egypt and the people of Egypt. …You have a great friend and ally in the United States, and in me.”

  60. 60.

    Mike in NC

    Trump will invite Assad for a free game of golf at Mar-A-Lago, where he will sternly tell the Syrian dictator “to knock it off”. Problem solved!

  61. 61.

    Chris

    Also,

    Sean Spicer, the White House spokesman, further told reporters that “these heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the last administration’s weakness and irresolution.”

    Correct me if I’m mistaken, but isn’t this the first chemical attack carried out since their attempted disarmament a few years back? In other words, Assad waited until Obama was out of the White House and Trump was in before he pulled this crap. Presumably secure in the knowledge that Putin would restrain his lackey.

    (An increasing number of foreigners take seem to take for granted that that is what he is, regardless of what the official news and investigations in DC turn up).

  66. 66.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: You know, I see crap like that and am instantly angry, in equal parts, with the media and with the GOP. Both allowed Orange Uncle Shouty to pop off like that, as if he had any idea what he was talking about (ever), instead of laughing him out of town.

  69. 69.

    Adam L Silverman

  70. 70.

    Sloegin

    3 days after Tillerson issues a ‘no we’re not going to do anything about Assad’ statement, the gas bombs come out.

    What a co-inkydink.

  71. 71.

    RareSanity

    @piratedan:

    at what point does Obama decide to defend himself from this kind of libel?

    I think he is playing it perfectly…the Trumpsters cast out the line, but Big O doesn’t bite, allowing them to make the conversation about him instead of the event. The public likes Obama even more, now, than they did when he was in office.

    I’m not saying that the regular Fox News zombies won’t jump on the blame Obama bandwagon, most certainly they will. But for the other 50+% of the country, I like to repeat a saying my old high school football coach used to say all the time…”Don’t tell me about the labor pains, show me the baby!”

    The non-Fox News crowd doesn’t care much for what happened before, they want to know what he (Trump) is going to do NOW.

  72. 72.

    Emerald

    @NorthLeft12:

    I want them in jail. I want them all in jail for the rest of their scabrous lives.

    It’ll never happen because Drumpf is going to pardon them all, including himself as he goes out the door.

  73. 73.

    Adam L Silverman

    @germy: I believe it has been long documented, with significant empirical validation that elite and notable Russians are some of the most accident prone people on the planet.//

  75. 75.

    Adam L Silverman

    The Secretary of State has made a statement:

  76. 76.

    Brachiator

    Sean Spicer, the White House spokesman, further told reporters that “these heinous actions by the Bashar al-Assad regime are a consequence of the last administration’s weakness and irresolution.”

    As far as I can tell, Russia eagerly filled the vacuum caused by US caution in Syria. Supporting Syria more neatly matched Russia’s national interests.

    However, since Trump is Putin’s puppet and also backs Assad to the extent that Assad supposedly fights ISIL, the US “condemnation” of Syria’s use of chemical weapons is meaningless drivel. Maybe we should ask that old foreign policy expert, Jared Kushner, what he thinks about this.

  77. 77.

    mai naem mobile

    Jared was finishing up on the Iraq visit and working on the China trip. He had to be pulled away and is now working on a response to this Syrian chemical attack which BTW his daddy in law had already taken care of before OBama and Susan Rice came back in the picture and forced Bashar Assad to commit this heinous act.

  78. 78.

    Jeffro

    @Sloegin:

    3 days after Tillerson issues a ‘no we’re not going to do anything about Assad’ statement, the gas bombs come out.

    What a coinkydink.

    So much easier for them to blame the guy who left office 75 days ago, though…oh my…

    Alexandra Petri was right: Trump (and Co) really do have time-warping, reality-altering powers. That, or they’re just soulless scumbags.

  80. 80.

    Jeffro

    @mai naem mobile:

    Jared was finishing up on the Iraq visit and working on the China trip. He had to be pulled away and is now working on a response to this Syrian chemical attack which BTW his daddy in law had already taken care of before OBama and Susan Rice came back in the picture and forced Bashar Assad to commit this heinous act.

    Don’t forget Valerie Jarrett! She had to have played a major part in all this, too!!

  81. 81.

    Roger Moore

    @Chris:

    Congress whined that Obama was being unconstitutional by undertaking military operations and making military commitments without consulting them, so he put the issue to them, and they then failed to do anything. This is, of course, Obama’s fault.

    Remember, Congress also blamed him for the bad consequences when they overrode his veto of the law letting people sue Saudi Arabia for the 9/11 attacks. They have never lacked chutzpah.

  82. 82.

    EdTheRed

    …wait, the White House’s response was to BLAME OBAMA? Honestly, f*ck these people.

  85. 85.

    trollhattan

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Holy fvck, they’re taking the whole “cartoonish violence” thing to unimaginable levels. Next: “Journalist dead–hit on head viss anvil. Acme Corporation under FSB investigation.”

  88. 88.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @randy khan:

    although the size of the base appears to be declining

    Technically true, but so very slowly, while they get more and more psychotic and frenzied precisely because they see their time in the majority ending. That’s how we got Trump. It’s a rough situation, and Trump IS absolutely wildly popular with people who vote for him, even the ones who know he’s screwing them over.

  89. 89.

    trollhattan

    @amk:
    I consider li’l Kim’s murdering his half-brother as a marketing campaign: “Hey everybody, we’re in the VX business. Text us!”

    Lord only knows what a fission device might go for.

  91. 91.

    Brachiator

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Daesh is laughing their asses off right now. They couldn’t have asked for a better situation even if they ordered it through Amazon Prime.

    And had it delivered by a drone.

  94. 94.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Roger Moore:

    They have never lacked chutzpah.

    They seek to rival the Menendez Brothers seeking sentencing leniency because they’re orphans now.

  95. 95.

    Adam L Silverman

    @trollhattan: Buying one is pointless. You have to buy at least two. If you only have one and you use it, you have no deterrent left. Two is the minimum purchase. Three is preferable because if you use one, then you’re down to only one, so you need three so that you always have at least two in reserve.

  96. 96.

    Keith P.

    J-Kush is probably flying to Syria as we speak to airlift sick children out of Syrian hospitals. Go Jared!

  99. 99.

    Iowa Old Lady

    The WH spinning and mud slinging at Susan Rice makes me frantic. These people are slime. They need to be scraped of the bottom of the national shoe and doused in Clorox.

  100. 100.

    Adam L Silverman

    @zhena gogolia: The CI investigation is ongoing. The FBI is creating a separate task force force. Will he go to jail? Be impeached? I have no idea. Is it going to be very, very hard to accomplish anything of significance – and I’m not discounting scaring the daylights out of people of color and immigrants and religious minorities and women – while all of this is going on? Yes, it will be very difficult. And given that the GOP majority Congress is going to be lucky if they don’t accidentally shut down the government at the end of the month, and then the 2018 election cycle begins at the end of May, the legislative side of things is pretty much dead for the next 12 to 18 months.

  101. 101.

    Jeffro

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Trump IS absolutely wildly popular with people who vote for him, even the ones who know he’s screwing them over.

    And here I am reminded of all those awesome folks at Trumpov’s rallies, especially the wonderful lady with the “Trump can grab my p_____” homemade t-shirt and the lovely couple with the matching “fuck your feelings” screen printed t-shirts. Oh, and the guy who lost it in front of reporters and started Nazi-saluting all over the place. Him too.

  102. 102.

    Gravenstone

    @trollhattan:

    I consider li’l Kim’s murdering his half-brother as a marketing campaign: “Hey everybody, we’re in the VX business. Text us!”

    Looks like Assad et al are still content with good old fashioned GB. Sometimes the classics are the best.

  103. 103.

    clay

    @Adam L Silverman:

    AP: US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson calls on Russia, Iran to make sure Syria’s Assad doesn’t launch chemical weapons attacks

    Uh… a little late for that, no? “Tillerson also called for NCAA referees to make sure they don’t call too many fouls during the March Madness Final, and called on Price Waterhouse Cooper to make sure that announcers are handed the correct envelope during the Oscar ceremony.”

  104. 104.

    Chris

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    It worries me just because so many Republicans only need the thinnest straw to cling to to rally to Trump and say “this is all a gigantic nothingburger and the real conspiracy is Democrats.” And ultimately, if a united wall of Republicans decides to protect Trump no matter what the FBI turns up, there’s not much we can do.

  107. 107.

    boatboy_srq

    @Adam L Silverman:

    President Obama asked Congress for formal authority to act and they refused.

    THIS. Needs. To. Be. Repeated. Continually.

    Thoroughly done here with the Teahadis who whinge about how “weak” BHO was and how thrilled they have a “strong” pResident in Lord Dampnut. The GOTea had no interest in a STRONG BHO because strong Presidents are NEVER Black that didn’t suit their narrative. Now we have a dilettante slumlord in the WH who thinks that making mean pouty-faces and tweeting insults makes for good optics and popular appeal sound leadership and they’re perfectly OK with that. They don’t give a rat’s arse about anything outside their own constituencies (never mind US borders) and they’re content to let it all burn down around them.

  108. 108.

    randy khan

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Just to be clear, I’m not talking about the demographic trends, but about the people who actually voted for him- in recent polls he’s been losing ground among Republicans and independents.

  109. 109.

    trollhattan

    BBC has the following:

    What substance was used?

    The SOHR said it was unable to say what exactly was dropped. However, the EMC and LCC said it was believed to be the nerve agent Sarin, which is highly toxic and considered 20 times as deadly as cyanide.

    Chemical weapons expert Dan Kaszeta said that determining whether Sarin was involved simply by examining video clips is problematic.He added that Tuesday’s attack could have been the result of one of any number of chemical agents as they tend to “behave the same in terms of their physiological effects on the human body”.

    Sarin is almost impossible to detect because it is a clear, colourless and tasteless liquid that has no odour in its purest form. The government was accused by Western powers of firing rockets filled with Sarin at several rebel-held suburbs of the capital Damascus in August 2013, killing hundreds of people. President Bashar al-Assad denied the charge, blaming rebel fighters, but he did subsequently agree to destroy Syria’s chemical arsenal.

    Despite that, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) has continued to document the use of toxic chemicals in attacks in Syria. In January 2016, it said blood samples taken from the victims of one unspecified attack showed victims had been exposed to Sarin or a Sarin-like substance.

    I remembered them having used chlorine but not Sarin.

  110. 110.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Turgidson: Chemical weapons are easily made in any pesticide factory – insects are harder to kill than humans.

  111. 111.

    Chris

    @Goku:

    And even that’s really just a fantasy – the morality of armed insurrection aside, the odds of a left-wing uprising succeeding in a country where virtually every public and private armed organization is right wing A.F. are nil.

  112. 112.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Adam L Silverman:

    https://twitter.com/adriennemahsa/status/849344955323699200

    This thread and others recalling Trump’s Tweetstorm telling Obama to stand down in Syria in 2013 is incredibly revealing knowing what we know now about his Russian ties.

    I’ve been angry for a long long time about our impotent response to Syria under Obama. I wish we’d have just taken a risk years ago and literally saved hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. I understand our choices were made out of extreme caution to not get pulled into yet another bog-down, lack of clarity about who were the good and bad guys, promises from Russia they’d put the thumbs on Assad and that Obama had practically no support for intervention there from Congress ( I’m guessing McCain was for military intervention?).

    But as much as I wish we’d been able to pull off a humanitarian military intervention there like we did w/NATO in Bosnia-Herzegovina Under Obama, is no fucking way we let Donald Trump get away with this bullshit blaming Obama for this when he was propagandizing the talking points of his Russian puppeteers just a few years ago.

  114. 114.

    amk

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    I wish we’d been able to pull off a humanitarian military intervention there like we did w/NATO in Bosnia-Herzegovina Under Obama

    Different era (no visible soshul media where every loud nutjob, left or right, is a pundtwit), different political landscapes (blatantly treasonous rethugs) and stupider voters.

  115. 115.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ella in New Mexico: To mark beliefs to market: shortly after the 2013 attack I wrote a report for CENTCOM, ARCENT, and OSD-Policy (further distroed to State’s Near East Desk and SOCOM) arguing against taking action. Between unclear intelligence and the lack of a strategy, or even a clear end state, for how to proceed other than simply enforcing the President’s stated red line. In retrospect I think this was a mistake, though I am not sure what course of action would have been effective and appropriate.

  117. 117.

    Goku

    @Chris:

    the morality of armed insurrection aside

    Agree with everything you said except the above with a caveat. Sometimes armed insurrection is necessary, to fight for freedom. Especially when your enemy is unwilling to fight you at the ballot box and instead simply murder you, or throw you in prison when you question the powers that be. Or for simply being nonwhite

    In the white nationalist fever dreams of the alt-reich , they believe they would be the top bananas in the new totalitarian state they think they want to establish. But in reality, they wouldn’t be. They would certainly be better off than non-whites and women, but would not enjoy true freedom. The moment they started to openly question the New regime, they would slapped down, and likely much worse. Like Germans during WW2, they would believe themselves to be free, but in reality they would not be.

  118. 118.

    boatboy_srq

    @Adam L Silverman: He asked for a lot of things. And got the door slammed in his face in response each and every time. The modern GOTea isn’t referred to as “the Party of No” for nothing.

  119. 119.

    boatboy_srq

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    I’m guessing McCain was for military intervention?

    McCain’s one and only prescription for any Middle East conflict is to bomb Iran.

    /semisnark

  121. 121.

    Chris

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    I’ve been angry for a long long time about our impotent response to Syria under Obama. I wish we’d have just taken a risk years ago and literally saved hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. I understand our choices were made out of extreme caution to not get pulled into yet another bog-down, lack of clarity about who were the good and bad guys, promises from Russia they’d put the thumbs on Assad and that Obama had practically no support for intervention there from Congress ( I’m guessing McCain was for military intervention?).

    I think the main problem is that even if you could, hypothetically, have solved it all through military action, U.S. public opinion wouldn’t have supported another war, let alone long-term reconstruction/wev of Syria.

  122. 122.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Goku: They have no fucking idea what Führerprinzip is all about, but it has nothing at all to do with “freedom” except as a license to do anything for the top dog.

  124. 124.

    boatboy_srq

    @Goku: There’s a part of me that just wishes he’d pick a different target from time to time.

  129. 129.

    Chris

    @Goku:

    I tend to view insurrection domestically the same way I view war internationally. Something that can be justified, but that really is and needs to be a last resort and only used with extreme care because, as with war, you can’t be sure what the outcome will be when it’s over – the only thing you can guarantee is, quoth Churchill, lots and lots of blood, toil, tears and sweat.

    As with war, that isn’t to minimize that it *can* be justified.

  132. 132.

    Goku

    @Chris: Again I agree. However, if it came to any of that I’d fight and die than live in Richard Spencer’s dystopia

  139. 139.

    boatboy_srq

    @Miss Bianca: If we send one-way tickets on Aeroflot to their offices, do think they’d go? That’d be the best “campaign contribution” I can think of for them.

  142. 142.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @amk:

    Just a joke, man.

    And people here have been known to speak slightingly of the sarcasm font.

  145. 145.

    Brachiator

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    ( I’m guessing McCain was for military intervention?).

    Funny how certain progressives labelled Hillary Clinton as a war hawk aching to go to get into military interventions. And yet I don’t see her rushing to a microphone to demand any kind of military adventurism.

  146. 146.

    wuzzat

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: You’re right, but you’ve got it backwards if my old environmental toxicology textbooks are to be believed. Most commercial pesticides were originally derived from military-grade nerve agents. Better living through chemistry, dontcha know?

  147. 147.

    Debbie1

    @piratedan: “at what point does Obama decide to defend himself from this kind of libel?”

    Yeah, THAT’S the problem w/ Spicer’s statement.

  150. 150.

    Debbie1

    @Gravenstone: “@piratedan: It’s Obama’s “fault” because he didn’t take out Assad during his watch. Don’t ask me how doing that was supposed to make things better going forward, because power vacuums work out so well. But that’s what passes for logic in pass-the-buck Trumplandia.”

    It also goes nicely with Donald’s practice of taking credit for Obama job creation, or company plans to add jobs announced during the Obama administration. It’s a box set, see?

  151. 151.

    Gravenstone

    @J R in WV: Dude, Bhopal was methyl isocyanate. Not an insecticide, not even the same general family of organophosphate insecticides as the alluded to dual purpose facilities. Just part of a very reactive family of compounds that react with water to make what amounts to a plastic. Makes it very hard to continue breathing when you get it in your lungs and it reacts with the water there to basically shrink wrap them from the inside out. Plus the heat of the reaction causing tissue burns on top of it.

  152. 152.

    Chris

    @Debbie1:

    And especially don’t ask how he was supposed to pass it without congressional approval, which they wouldn’t give. But sure. It’s Obama.

  153. 153.

    Debbie1

    @Mike in NC: “Trump will invite Assad for a free game of golf at Mar-A-Lago, where he will sternly tell the Syrian dictator “to knock it off”. Problem solved!”

    Followed by a sternly worded tweet. Then, a press conference where Donald alternates between a blank stare and his “serious” (read: constipated) look. Donald will then end the press conference w/ his usual handshake where he wrenches the Syrian dictator’s arm off it’s socket. Guaranteed to double the membership fees at Mar-A-Lago which, after all, is the only important thing.

    We’ll know it was the right way to handle things because the press will fall over themselves to say this was the day Trump became “president.”

  155. 155.

    Ella in New Mexico

    @Adam L Silverman: Your report was not to blame. It was totally reasonable for someone in your position to lay out and consider the potential risks vs. success of military intervention.

    Actually, I blame a Congress that spent every single waking moment trying to undermine a decent President’s term, whether it helped or hurt not only the US but the world. He asked for a bipartisan discussion of a solution, they told him to stick it.

    Even so, I wish he have persisted. Because we’re pretty ingenious when we want to bee, and deep down I find it hard to believe that all this supposedly most powerful nation in the world could do was draw a red line, refuse to enforce it, and sit by wringing our hands. I think we could have done–could still do–a whole lot more.

  156. 156.

    D58826

    Well don’t worry about Syria misbehaving and the Trumpers not having any answers since NK launched something in the direction of Japan and an unidentified US spokesman said

    The clock has now run out and all options are on the table

    . Since they have already ruled out diplomacy exactly what options are left on the table?

  157. 157.

    Citizen_X

    @Mike in NC:

    he will sternly tell the Syrian dictator “to knock it off”.

    No, he only talks that way to enemies. Like Angela Merkel. Or Paul Ryan.

  158. 158.

    J R in WV

    @Gravenstone:

    You are correct about the chemical involved at Bhopal, but you imply that I didn’t know that. I’m very familiar with methyl isocyanate because it was used for years in the Kanawha valley to manufacture pesticides, and they maintained something like 250,000 pounds of it in a tank, rather than generate it as a feedstock, to avoid keeping vast quantities on hand.

    I’m no chemist, but I believe they were producing Sevin, a common garden bug killer. If methyl isocyanate shrink-wrapped lungs from the inside, well, that sounds pretty fatal to me. And if methyl isocyanate is a feedstock for Sevin, that sounds poisonous to me.

    Also, Fuck You for being arrogant and condescending on a topic near to the hearts of the 60,000 people living around the local plant that used methyl isocyanate every day. I’m a little upwind of that plant in typical weather patterns, but I have smelled that plant’s common emmissions on still summer nights, the best sort of night for maximum death toll in case of an accident at the plant.

    But JOBS are important, so let’s not regulate pesticide production too much, right? Right!

  159. 159.

    Adam L Silverman

    @GrandJury: 1) The issuing the red line was a poor decision, not President Obama’s not doing something about it. 2) I don’t remember you in any of the Joint Operating Centers, Tactical Operating Centers, VTCs, or conference rooms where I’ve been responsible for briefing on this stuff to actual generals.

    As I indicated in comment 115:

    To mark beliefs to market: shortly after the 2013 attack I wrote a report for CENTCOM, ARCENT, and OSD-Policy (further distroed to State’s Near East Desk and SOCOM) arguing against taking action. Between unclear intelligence and the lack of a strategy, or even a clear end state, for how to proceed other than simply enforcing the President’s stated red line. In retrospect I think this was a mistake, though I am not sure what course of action would have been effective and appropriate.

    Sometimes those of us that get paid to think about, worry about, and advise on these issues don’t have any better answers than anyone else. In this case I had no good recommendations, just questions that could not be answered. And they still can’t be answered. And that’s part of what makes this so difficult to just manage and possibly mitigate, let alone resolve.

  160. 160.

    J R in WV

    @GrandJury:

    Be getting fucked with the proverbial oxidized farm implement, you lousy pin-worm infected low life! You seem to have a good command of American English, but I would still bet a huge pile that you’re paid by Russia, or are a voluntary fellow traveler.

    That’s much worse than being a hireling, you know. Volunteering for this slimy work.

  161. 161.

    Adam L Silverman

    @GrandJury: Sure, knock yourself out. Though I’m not holding hands with you on this walk. First date rules and all…

  162. 162.

    El Caganer

    This whole thing sounds like bullshit. If the sole source of information is the White Helmets, either via their dodgy videos or statements funneled through the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (the one-man band operating out of his living room in England), I have no confidence that the Syrian government did anything at all. Remember during the siege of east Aleppo, when the Russians and Syrians were blowing up children’s hospitals every other day? If I had believed any of that crap I would have arrived at the conclusion that there were more pediatric hospitals in east Aleppo than on the West Coast of the United States. Certainly that’s the trademark of true military genius – when your forces are winning, kill a bunch of civilians! That winning-hearts-and-minds shit, don’t y’know.

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