I suppose it’s nothing to joke about, but hell, what else is there to do?
Senate Republicans used the “nuclear option” Thursday to change the chamber’s rules and clear the way for the confirmation of President Donald Trump’s Supreme Court nominee, Neil Gorsuch.
The rules change will enable Gorsuch to easily pass through the Senate with a simple majority instead of the now-defunct 60-vote threshold. A final confirmation vote is expected Friday.
Goku
This would be a great time for Gorsucks to croak and take one for America
Sebastian
Hang them for treason. Start with McConnell.
rikyrah
it is what it is
As the tweet from earlier this week…
they actually went Nuclear on Garland…we just pretended otherwise.
we no longer have to pretend.
mike in dc
I for one look forward to the new 25 member SCOTUS under the next Democratic president.
Chris
Well, it’s not like we didn’t expect it.
tobie
The Dems were between a rock and a hard place. They had no choice. I donated $50 to the DSCC today just to show support. As soon as I have a bit more cash on hand, I will donate more. This was a tough vote and most Democratic senators showed spine. The same cannot be said for the GOP which blithely invoked the nuclear option.
germy
As much as we’re suffering, this is a golden age for screenwriters.
Yesterday I posted a link to a new movie in the works about Roger Ailes.
Today I saw this:
Central Planning
I can’t wait to taste the sweet, sweet republican tears when we have the the majority again and stick it to them.
Cacti
I regret that Dems didn’t do the same when they had the chance.
I never doubted for a moment that the Pukes would shitcan the filibuster the moment it became inconvenient to them.
Good job by the Dems for finally showing some spine and fighting the good fight.
A Ghost to Most
Fuck Michael Bennet for going along with this.
Splitting Image
Allow me to be the first to predict that when the Democrats retake the Senate, Mitch McConnell (or his successor) will demand that they re-instate the filibuster as a gesture of comity. The New York Times op-ed page will agree.
Villago Delenda Est
They are going to pay for this in the long run. And John McCain, already very low in my opinion, got even lower by voting to go nuke. Utter disgrace to the uniform he once wore.
The Moar You Know
Did any single person here think they wouldn’t? They are desperate and will do anything to move their agenda while they still can. A year from now this will be the least of our problems.
Dave
I’m not even that upset at least not at this specifically. The filibuster was dead from the moment they refused to hold hearings for Garland better at this point to eliminate anything that gives cover to the willfully ignorant.
Villago Delenda Est
@Splitting Image: “And that’s when I unleashed the Kraken, your honor.”
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@rikyrah: This !
Oatler.
“Look what democrats/liberals/beatniks/hippies are making us do! It’s horrible! (sob) I hate them so bad!”
Thoroughly Pizzled
They know the reckoning that awaits them. They don’t care.
Cacti
@Villago Delenda Est:
McCain is the same as he ever was.
He talks a good game, and then votes the party line.
Corner Stone
D’s may make a little hay about this in fundraising. But R’s will not have one single vote cast against them because of this action. So, again, raw obvious obstruction is rewarded and people trying to actually govern get the treadmill notched another percent steeper.
Another Scott
Yup, it was expected. And they’ll probably do it this year for legislation, as well.
It’s horrible, but there is no way anyone can pretend that this was “both-siderism” since Trump took over. This is all on the GOP and clarity should make it easier to make them pay the price in the upcoming elections. The Senate will finally work as the Constitution intended (majority rules) and the majority there will finally get all the brickbats that come with the “glory” and won’t be able to hide behind “bi-partisanship” any more.
As others pointed out yesterday, we need to wish continued good health to Justice Kennedy and encourage him to resist the rampant GOP power-grab. And RBG and the good ones on our side as well!
Cheers,
Scott.
randy khan
If you’re inclined to protest (even if it won’t change anything), there’s a suggestion going around to go to McConnell’s Facebook page, find a thread, and post “Shame!” as a comment. Who knows, if enough people do it, he might even notice. (I don’t have high hopes for that, but what the heck.)
A link, if you’re so inclined.
piratedan
just the expected end result for the GOP. They will do ANYTHING to stay in power
comity
ethics
morals
treason
there are no lines in the sand…
JMG
@Another Scott: Dave Weigel of the WaPo talked to several Republican Senators today on the legislative filibuster and they were not into ending it at all, on the rational grounds that the party of opposition to government needs more ways to block bills than the Democrats do. That could change, but I’m not sure I see why it will before 2018. What legislation does McConnell want that’s so important to him that’d be worth it? For that matter, if it was so big, could he get 50 votes out of his 52 Senators?
Kryptik
This was predictable, and I’m still glad the Dems took a stand like they did.
But I’m still mourning since this really will soldifiy that the US will remain a repressively conservative country at its core for at least another generation, if not two.
The Moar You Know
@Splitting Image: Worst of all, Dems will do it unless the base rises up in rage and fights it. And the base won’t do that.
I’m not mad at the Republicans, that’s like being mad at a snake that bit you. I’m beyond angry with the Democrats. This was the brass ring, the sweepstakes prize, the big payoff. And we never fought it until now, and fighting it after Election Day was utterly pointless.
Major Major Major Major
Remember when we kept saying that Reid should just get rid of the filibuster, since the GOP would as soon as it was convenient? And the people saying that were dismissed as not taking a long view, or respecting the senate as an institution?
gene108
@Another Scott:
Dems nuke the filibuster for lower court appointments. Republicans have now done it for the SCOTUS. It’s just tit-for-tat.
McConnell stonewalled Garland’s nomination. Biden gave a speech about delaying any nominations, in 1992, until after the November election. Therefore, both sides are just as guilty. Fuck, McConnell called what he did to Garland the “Biden Rule” and no one in the media called him on it.
In other words, do not underestimate the ability of our media to find an equivalence between the two parties.
It doesn’t matter how fucked up Republicans are, there will always be a Democratic counterpoint that is given as much weight.
amk
@piratedan: Yup, as long as the voters keep rewarding them, there will not be any line they will willingly and wilfully not cross.
Another Scott
@JMG: I expect them to try to ram a tax bill through, and I expect it to include gutting or repeal of the AMT (Donnie hates it, you know). If Mitch doesn’t have 60 vote for it (and why would he), then I expect the legislative filibuster to be gone then.
There’s nothing their big donors want more than their taxes to be cut.
But we’ll see.
Cheers,
Scott.
Hungry Joe
@Villago Delenda Est: I suspect you’re right — if we live long enough to see a “long run.” In the short/medium run, however, we now have Neil G., who, with his soon-to-be cohorts (Scalia wannabe Alito, Corporate John Roberts, Sleepy Clarence, and Flip-a-Coin Kennedy) will do a lot of long-run damage.
The advantage of having the filibuster has swung wildly from one side to another. The advantage of not having it will do the same.
Kryptik
@gene108:
Except when the Dem “malfeasance” is given more weight, treated as more scandalous, and raised as proof of how illegitimate Dems are forever and anon.
Major Major Major Major
@gene108: I saw a headline (Politico?) today that was something like “McConnell finishes what Reid started”.
The Moar You Know
@randy khan: This is the most idiotic idea I’ve ever heard in my life, but it’s typical of these days, and this party, that people think that clicking and commenting on Facebook is any kind of significant or useful action. It is not.
McConnell will laugh when his interns tell him, revel in being in charge of a minority party that has a doormat for opposition, and go back to watching turtle porn or whatever the fuck that chinless wonder does for kicks. I do not want to know what he does for kicks, BTW.
Fair Economist
None of us want Gorsuch on the court, but this is still worth it. The filibuster has been used against us for more often than for us. Reid went nuclear on appointments in 2014 but only after 6 years of extreme filibuster abuse. That didn’t set much of a precedent. Now the Republicans are nuking it because they don’t like one particular vote. That *does* set a precedent – the filibuster will never be used to stop anything important on either side now, as it will just get nuked. Too bad we didn’t do it in 2009, but the next time we have the trifecta we’ll actually get substantive legislation.
gene108
@The Moar You Know:
People are getting woke.
There’s a lot of movement of people to get off their couches and get involved. It’ll take some time to get organized and become effective, but the base is not going to be sitting on its ass, watching the country burn.
Humboldtblue
@Thoroughly Pizzled: What sanction will they suffer? They aren’t going to be hurt by this they will be applauded for standing up to the dirty fucking liberals and making the country great again.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Gorsuch is illegitimate. He should be impeached, or the court stacked with 2 justices as soon as the Democrats can do it.
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know: Man can we ditch the “Democrats are always p*ssies” line? We just forced Republicans to eliminate the filibuster. It’s not 2005 anymore.
AnonPhenom
May he forever be known as “Justice ByHookAndByCrook”
Chris
@Splitting Image:
And half the country will then erupt in outrage at the blatant liberal bias of the New York Times.
Cacti
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
The first would be more difficult.
The second only requires amending the Judiciary Act. The number of Justices is set by statute, not the Constitution.
LurkerNoLonger
It’s really not healthy for me to hate someone as much as I hate Mitch McConnell.
Lurking Canadian
I have a procedural question. People used to say that the filibuster could only be changed on the first day of the legislative session, when the Senate voted on its Rules. Why can they do this now, if they didn’t do it in January?
SatanicPanic
@gene108: This. Thank you.
Dave
@Fair Economist: And maybe I’m being pollyanish but I would not be surprised at all if the next time that occurs is 2020.
manyakitty
@Dave: That’s where I am, too. No cover, no quarter.
randy khan
@The Moar You Know:
If you don’t like the idea, don’t do it.
However, protest serves multiple purposes. It can serve to keep people engaged and to focus them on what they support and oppose. Just because it won’t change McConnell’s mind doesn’t mean someone shouldn’t choose to do it.
Yarrow
Good for the Dems!
Just like being beaten is a battered spouse’s fault, I’m sure the Republicans doing away with the filibuster is all the fault of the Dems. Those mean old Democrats–they made the Republicans do this. Trust us, baby. We won’t hurt you again.
Another Scott
@Lurking Canadian: The Rules are whatever the majority (and the Parliamentarian) say they are.
Cheers,
Scott.
--bd
Do you want Chief Justice Obama? Because that’s how you get Chief Justice Obama.
A Ghost To Most
@Lurking Canadian: They are Calvin Ball rules; the fascists can change them mid-play if they so choose.
rikyrah
@Splitting Image:
and they will be told to go PHUCK THEMSELVES.
Peter
If and when we take back the houses and can begin proper investigations of Donnie’s affairs, then assuming those investigations uncover the sort of malfeasance we all know is in there, Dems need to push that Gorsuch’s appointment is illigitimate and work towards an impeachment.
EBT
@Cacti: McCain is the same piece of shit he has been his entire life.
Kryptik
@Lurking Canadian:
The bitter truth is that rules like in the Senate are only as powerful as the numbers that support them and the will to support them. Dems, when they had the numbers, didn’t have the will to drastically change the rules because of respect for precedent and the institution of the Senate, fat lot of good it did them.
GOP has the numbers and the will, along with the lack of respect for anything but tangible power. And why not, they keep getting rewarded for their naked cynicism and Dems punished for their respect taken as weakness.
germy
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
I’m shocked that the GOP behaved like craven assholes./
Splitting Image
If there is a silver lining here, it may come in the fact that the Democrats now need 51 seats in the Senate to block the G.O.P. agenda, not 41. This means that they have to pay attention to more states than they have in the past, including a few where they seem to have let the state parties wither and die. It won’t be enough to simply play defense in 2018 and hope for a bunch of pickups in 2020. They will actually need a plan to keep 26 states in the fold from here on out.
It’s worth repeating at this point that the biggest disaster in the 2016 elections wasn’t necessarily Trump winning the Presidency. It was the Democrats’ failure to turf out enough of the idiots who got elected to the Senate in 2010. Turf out Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, and Rob Portman along with Ayotte and Kirk, and this doesn’t happen.
TriassicSands
@tobie:
Leading the way on the Republican side of the aisle was maverick John McCain, who thinks getting rid of the filibuster is a terrible idea…but he voted with his party while his conscience went out to lunch. Some maverick.
Actually, it’s been a long time since anyone called McCain a maverick with a straight face. The man is a joke.
JMG
@Another Scott: Taxes fall under budget rules. Not subject to filibuster in the first place as long as can be shown through creative accounting to be budget neutral.
The Moar You Know
@SatanicPanic: Nope. I call it when I see it, and I’ve seen it non-stop since 1998. The time to go to war was the day Scalia died.
Nobody bothered. And here we are, with a 30-year ultra-right wing appointment made to the Supreme Court and not one effective Democratic response to it. Don’t ask me to swallow that shit sandwich and call it a victory. I should be dying of old age right about the time this asshole retires.
rikyrah
@JMG:
Without the legislative filibuster, the Senate would only need 50 votes to pass the insanity that routinely comes through the House.
We were saved from so much because of the legislative filibuster during the Harry Reid years. The Turtle uses it as an excuse.
Timurid
The good news is that the filibuster is still in place for normal legislation.
The bad news is that it will only stay in place until it’s time to vote on the Muslim Registry.
NR
This can’t have happened. Everyone around here assured me back in 2009 that nobody could do anything without 60 votes in the Senate.
Surely there must be some mistake.
AnonPhenom
…or maybe he should be known as “Justice Copy&Paste”…
Peter
@NR: Fuck off you fucking idiot.
Another Scott
@gene108: Yeah, my statement was too strong.
But political hacks (and lawyers) can argue about anything and push their clients’ views no matter how nonsensical they are. That’s their jobs. It doesn’t mean that enough people will be convinced.
That’s my hope anyway. :-/
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
EBT
@NR: You voted for deadbeat donnie.
Goku
@The Moar You Know: Well, we might as well just surrender now I guess.
NR
@EBT: Not only are you a liar, you’ve become a one-note bore.
Goku
@NR: Eat a shotgun shell, fuckhead
Also what fucking good is trolling some small time blog gonna accomplish, dipshit? Nothing! Unless that’s the point
A Ghost To Most
@NR:
Fuck off you fucking idiot.
tobie
@TriassicSands: Collins, McCain, Flake, Corker, Murkowski, Graham–Profiles in Cowardice, I say.
germy
@AnonPhenom:
Yeah, that’s a story that went nowhere. If HRC had won, and tried to appoint a justice who copied/pasted there would have been LOUD calls for his resignation. And HER resignation, as well.
EBT
@NR: Deflection isn’t working for your favorite number 1 vote getting president either you worthless piece of shit. Go play in traffic.
amk
aaand the troll turns up right on time.
LurkerNoLonger
@Peter: Hey, you stole my line!
germy
@NR:
Sanders/Stein 2020!
Another Scott
@JMG: There are lots of moving parts. GoveExec (posted earlier):
Cheers,
Scott.
Chris
@TriassicSands:
McCain’s made a career out of earning massively unearned brownie points by going on the media to talk and talk and talk about how he’s not crazy about this or that thing that his party’s doing, then going right ahead and voting entirely along party lines.
different-church-lady
@germy: Jim Carrey to play the guy Cheney shot in the face, because he’s capable of doing it without makeup.
germy
@different-church-lady: Fire Marshall Bill!
Goku
@amk: I’m beginning to question the effectiveness of the “Wilmer Protocol”
Chris
@germy:
Sanders/Stein will be neoliberal sellout corporate whores by 2020. There’ll be a new god by then.
msdc
@The Moar You Know: Democrats fought this every step of the way last year. Blame the purity voters who just couldn’t give their precious vote away to any old politician with a goddamn Supreme Court vacancy in the balance.
different-church-lady
@Major Major Major Major: The shoe: it changes feet constantly.
EBT
@Chris: Not to mention all the love he gets for being shot down three times due to his own inability to follow orders. He milked that his whole life.
Baud
This was expected. I’m proud of Dems for standing up and making them do it this way.
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know:
I don’t know how you can look at the responses to the AHCA, most of Trump’s nominees and the filibuster of Gorsuch and conclude, nope, nothing changed.
Go to war how, exactly? Eliminating the filibuster wouldn’t have accomplished a thing since they were still in the minority.
germy
@msdc: The purity ponies assured me the supreme court simply wasn’t that important.
Stardus614
Close your eyes and imagine the tears falling from Minority Leader McConnell’s eyes when SCOTUS Justice Barack Obama is sworn in.
Baud
@germy: Garland wasn’t exciting enough IIRC.
germy
@Stardus614: Ain’t gonna happen. Obama has no interest; he’s said it a million times.
germy
@Baud: Young Turks said Garland was a terrible pick.
NR
@Goku: Maybe now that the “you need 60 votes to do anything in the Senate” excuse has been exposed for the hollow bullshit it always was, you’ll start thinking about why the Democrats kept using it back in 2009 and 2010.
And maybe you’ll finally stop making excuses for them. That would be a step in the right direction.
Yarrow
So if the FBI and other investigations show that Trump, his close associates, Republican leadership, and Trump’s family colluded with Russia and are traitors to the US, plus the Russians are shown to have interfered with downticket races, can Gorsuch’s nomination to the court be called into question? Can he be removed because he was appointed under fraudulent conditions?
SatanicPanic
@germy: True. And moreover it was BLACKMAIL to bring it up. End the two party duopoly!
germy
@EBT: He wanted to circle back and see the damage he’d done to civilians.
Sort of like now.
The Thin Black Duke
@germy: I wanted to give St. Bernie the benefit of the doubt and think of him just being an ignorant sock puppet for the Russians and not a traitorous old coot, but after his latest atrocity in Boston, I can’t do that anymore. Watch him do his damnest to fuck up 2018 for the Democratic Party.
Baud
@germy: Have they ever been wrong?
waspuppet
Remember this, remember the fact that they ignored a Dem committee boycott on some of Trump’s more egregious Cabinet nominees. Remember all of this.
Somewhere two to five years from now, not one Republican in Washington will ever admit to having supported or even heard of Donald Trump. And most of our “Liberal Media” will be inclined to let them get away with it.
Remember every drooling hack they put in a position of power for no other reason than that their Leader demanded it. And remember the rules they broke and changed to serve him.
Yarrow
@Stardus614:
I’d rather picture McConnell in prison for treason.
Goku
@NR: Blow it out your ass NotaRetard, I never said that and don’t put words in my mouth. You never contribute anything of any substantive value. You repeatedly return to a place that hates your asshole guts and fester division. Every time! Go fuck off to TYT or something
different-church-lady
@NR: There are several mistakes. Why you continually choose to be one of them I have no idea.
Larryb
The fillibuster has been effectively dead since McConnell threatened to nuke it in 2005 unless the Dems rolled on Alito and Roberts. Which they did. This makes Ried’s refusal to ditch it during the Garland fiasco even more pathetic.
germy
(Young Turks, one year ago)
I’m sure Gorsuch will do a much better job.
...now I try to be amused
@rikyrah:
I agree. Might as well get it out into the open. This is the behavior of people who know they are on the wrong side of history.
May Godwin forgive me, but a quote by Joseph Stalin comes to mind:
“Well, if the Germans want a war of extermination, they will get it.”
Dave
@Larryb: Unless I’m badly mistaken Reid wasn’t the majority leader during the Garland fiasco so didn’t really have any say at that point.
Cacti
@The Thin Black Duke:
In 2020, he’ll be telling us that ex-Repub, and Assad BFF Tulsi Gabbard is the only true progressive choice for POTUS.
NR
@The Thin Black Duke:
He’d have a long way to go to fuck things up any worse than the Democratic establishment already has.
Splitting Image
@Larryb:
Reid wasn’t in charge of the Senate during the Garland fiasco. That’s why it was a fiasco.
NR
@Goku: If you didn’t say it, then what I said doesn’t apply to you.
Plenty of people around here did say it, though.
germy
@NR:
So you’re losing faith in him already?
Who’s your new Green Lantern?
Baud
@Dave: You are correct.
Bill Arnold
@gene108:
The media (excepting the RW propaganda outlets) has been getting a lot more feisty since the election. The word “lie” is now used, for instance. They’re egged on by Trump and his supporters who basically call them Un-American Traitors, willfully ignoring part of the First F’ing Amendment,
Open source investigation in general has become a lot more powerful. (This includes leaks and hacking.) There are still capability asymmetries (vs state-level actors) but they are not as pathetically large as in the past.
Goku
@NRetard: “Unlike me, I would have totally saved democracy and destroyed the Republican party forever if only the evil establishment had listened to me!!!! Now, if you’ll excuse me my mom just made me hot pockets.”
Chris
@The Thin Black Duke:
I didn’t hate him or his supporters during the primaries – they’re supposed to be acrimonious. And he mostly shut up between them and the general. What he’s done since the election has pretty completely made me a Bernie-basher, though.
NR
@Goku: Sick burn, brah. You got me there.
The Thin Black Duke
@NR: Suck my African-American dick you useless piece of shit.
Chris
@Bill Arnold:
The problem is, they’re pretty much still seeing it as a Trump-specific issue. All it’ll take is to give them a Republican who can chew with his mouth full for them to return to their regularly scheduled crap. And it’s not like there isn’t still plenty of “Democrats, why did you make Trump hit you?” articles out there.
Sorry. I’m cynical as hell about the MSM.
germy
@Bill Arnold:
Scott Pelley on CBS News actually finishes sentences now. They used to only report half the story. His colleagues have noticed, and they’re comparing him to Walter Cronkite.
Baud
@Chris: You should be. They’re the main reason we have Trump.
EBT
@NR: This fucker voted for deadbeat donnie, never let him forget.
Goku
@The Thin Black Duke: Now now, I’m sure Mr. N (R) is useful for something. What I can’t say
Chyron HR
@NR:
True Progressives, 2016: Bernie or Bust!
True Progressives, 2017: How could the Democrats let everything get busted?
NR
@EBT: You’re not just a liar, you’re a boring liar.
Baud
@Chyron HR: Heh.
BobbyK
Everyone knew mcconnell would do this first chance he got if Reid had done it when he should have this wouldn’t be happening.
germy
Who will gorsuch copy/paste his decisions from? the Federalist Society?
Goku
@NR: You’re crying on the inside. Everybody can tell
Goku
@N (R): Speaking of one-note and boring….
EBT
@NR: Why don’t you call me a globalist cuck too, fucking trumper.
Baud
@BobbyK: What are you talking about?
BobbyK
@Chyron HR: What a crock of shit. It’s not Bernie’s fault Clinton was such a flawed candidate she couldn’t beat trump.
dogwood
@Larryb:
Reid was the minority leader during the Garland fiasco. He didn’t have the power to ditch it then.
germy
The way I’ll always remember wilmer is the way he sat there red-faced through the Democratic Convention while his supporters heckled and tried to drown out people of color giving speeches of unity.
Baud
@dogwood: I’m getting the impression that the Blame Reid instruction has been sent over the wire.
Goku
@BobbyK: Apparently wasn’t good enough to beat her tho. What does that tell you about Wilmer as as a Gen candidate if Clinton wasn’t good enough?
Roger Moore
@The Moar You Know:
Let’s not blame the Democrats for selling us out until the actually do it. I’m personally extremely skeptical that your scenario will happen. It’s true that when given a chance the Democrats failed to eliminate the filibuster completely, but I think they had reasonable grounds. In 2009, they thought they were going to have a filibuster-proof majority, so there wasn’t a sufficiently strong reason for eliminating it. In 2011, they were facing a Republican House, which meant passing legislation wasn’t top priority and there was some reason to want to preserve the filibuster for the next time we needed to use it. That same logic held when they eliminated the filibuster for nominations but not for legislation. And it’s worth pointing out that the Republicans in the Senate have not, so far at least, actually eliminated the filibuster on legislation.
Now imagine a hypothetical future where the Republicans do eliminate the filibuster on legislation, and the Democrats then re-take control of the Senate. Why on earth would the Democrats choose to reinstate it? In the past, there was a hope that the Republicans would keep it in place so the Democrats could continue to use it, and that’s actually held true. But that hope dies if/when the Republicans finally do eliminate it; there’s no hope that the Republicans will preserve it if they’ve already proven their willingness to eliminate it.
There’s also a question of the actual voting. Substantial rule changes require near unanimity among the party implementing them to pass. In fact, there was a move by the Democrats to abolish the filibuster, but it wasn’t implemented because they couldn’t get quite enough votes. Now imagine that the filibuster is eliminated and the majority leader tries to reinstate it. If he doesn’t get a majority of his own caucus to support reinstatement, he’s likely to back down, and to get thrown out of leadership if he continues to try. There’s no way a majority of Democratic senators would vote to hamstring themselves by reinstating the filibuster when not too long ago a substantial, but not overwhelming, majority were in favor of eliminating it completely- especially when the primary justification for keeping it has now proven false.
germy
@Baud: The script: It will be followed.
germy
@Goku: rigged. Didn’t you know that?
Baud
@Roger Moore: Oh, stop it with the logical analysis. This is the internet.
Patricia Kayden
@tobie: I’m proud of Democrats for filibustering Gorsuch. When they take over the Senate and White House, they can exact some revenge.
?eric
I hate that the Court gets another reactionary instead of Garland, but I am not going to mourn the death of an antidemocratic process in a fairly anti-democratic institution with already disproportionate power to rural red states.
Bill Arnold
@Splitting Image:
Reports are that rules were only changed for supreme court nominees.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@germy: And remember when the first woman to win the nomination of a major US party gave him a gracious shout out and thank you, in front of the entire world and all he could do is sit and sulk…I do.
Goku
@germy: Its just stupid infighting that the likes of N (R) provoke. It’s his schick. And he calls EBT one-note
mai naem mobile
@BobbyK: oh ,go fuck yourself. You have no fucking idea how much shit was going to be thrown at Bernie. See how people think of their neighbor stealing their electricity. That isn’t some complicated legislation,that kind of stuff anybody can understand.
Baud
@Bill Arnold: There is no more filibuster for any nominee. Only legislation is left for now.
Patricia Kayden
@The Moar You Know: Or they will confirm more Justices for SCOTUS once a Democrat is in the White House so the balance shifts. We’ll have to wait and see.
trollhattan
@Goku:
Yup, the most progressive platform in a generation didn’t elect a Dem president. They needed to be moar leftier to attract those 80k swing state voters? That’d get’r done!
ruemara
I’m pretty much rubbing my hands with glee. As they devastate, I see opportunity.
mai naem mobile
@Baud: they’ve been blaming Reid for years now.
Baud
@ruemara: Heh.
geg6
@rikyrah:
This.
@Central Planning:
And this.
ruemara
@germy: Maybe Cenk should keep expounding on how if his daughter gets drunk, what happens to her is on her.
SFBayAreaGal
Come on people, stop feeding the troll. Just ignore it and let it crawl back underneath the bridge it came from.
Patricia Kayden
@BobbyK: And an extremely liberal (Socialist) Jew could have? Putin and Republicans wouldn’t have torn him apart? Some of us are delusional. Secretary Clinton was a great candidate who lost. No need to demonize her. I hope Dems don’t allow Bernie to run on our ticket again. I certainly won’t support him if he runs in 2020 just like I didn’t support him last year. He seems too comfortable criticizing our side while letting Trump’s racist supporters off the hook. Makes me wonder.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone: not one Republican voter or trump voter, but it has helped Democrats find their spine and their voice , and hopefully at least a few independents will wake up now as well
Goku
@Patricia Kayden: He’ll probably be dead by 2020 tbh
Baud
@SFBayAreaGal: Agree.
amk
cole is a dumb ass.
Seth Owen
@Bill Arnold: For now.
The filibuster has been weakening for ages. It used to be 2/3 until they reduced it to 60. Now they chip away at what it covers. First executive nominees and lower judges. Now the Supreme Court. Regular legislation will soon follow so the GOP gets its tax cut. That’s all ok. The shoe will be on the other foot — and maybe sooner rather than later if Trump keeps being Trump. How many senate and house seats are really safe if Trimp’s approval rate is 27%?
Patricia Kayden
@mike in dc: Yep. Democrats need to take a page from Republicans and do whatever they can to promote their partisan interests. Stop playing nice.
Baud
@amk: What did he tweet this time?
Splitting Image
@Bill Arnold:
For now.
Keeping the filibuster for legislation means that the G.O.P. can only pass their desired tax cuts through reconciliation, which means that the cuts have to be revenue neutral. Getting rid of the filibuster would mean that they can pass whatever cuts they want. I’ll be surprised if the filibuster survives in any form until the mid-term elections.
zhena gogolia
@germy:
Me too. Cannot stand the asshole.
Villago Delenda Est
@Kryptik: Hence my nym.
Wipe them out. All of them.
japa21
Ignore the troll. It is so stupid it doesn’t realize that except for nominations and some few other things, it still takes 60 votes to get things done in the Senate, just like it did in 2009 and 2010.
SFBayAreaGal
Come on people, stop feeding the trolls. Just ignore them and let it crawl back underneath the bridge it came from
Baud
@Splitting Image: Fair point. On the flip side, the loss of an individual senator’s influence is much greater if the filibuster is eliminated for legislation as opposed to nominees.
NR
@Patricia Kayden: Because criticizing Trump supporters worked out so well for Hillary, right?
Sanders has heavily criticized Trump himself, his administration, and Republicans in Congress. And yes, he has also criticized Democrats when it is warranted. The devastating losses the party suffered over the last eight years should be enough to make anyone realize that there is considerable room for improvement.
But apparently it’s easier to attack Bernie Sanders for pointing that out than it is to think about that.
You guys sound an awful lot like the White House these days: The problem isn’t our people’s Russian connection, the problem is the people who point that out.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
Completely OT: Don Rickles is dead.
NR
@japa21:
Wow. This is really a special kind of stupid.
StringOnAStick
@A Ghost to Most: Agreed, Bennet’s leash is held by Anschutz, not the democrats of CO. Udall was our good senator, and the off year election gave us that prick Gardner instead of keeping him. Bennet has been on my suspicious list for a long time, now well confirmed.
geg6
@msdc:
Exactly. Anyone who blames Dems for this is too stupid to live. The people to blame are the assholes who voted for Trump, Stein or Johnson or who chose to stay home. Fuck each and every one of them. I hope they all die painful, extended and lonely deaths.
Timurid
@japa21:
Again, that’s only true until it’s time to vote on the Muslim Registry or some other piece of ultra-toxic legislation.
geg6
@NR:
Go fuck yourself, Russkie.
Goku
@N(R): There’s always room for improvement N(R); you’re just an annoying dick
germy
@japa21:
Balloon-Juice has the fattest, best-fed trolls in the business, as well as the least informed. We’re also suckers for feral cats and homeless dogs.
Villago Delenda Est
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Yet Dick Cheney is still animated. There is no fuckin’ justice.
gene108
@NR:
If Democrats are trying to be the party of good government, Democrats can’t go in and break institutional norms as the first order of business.
You go from being the grown-ups in charge to a radical revolutionary party.
And make no mistake today’s Republicans are a radical right-wing party.
Baud
@germy: We have the Jared of trolls!
Bill Arnold
@Baud:
Yea, but the rest of the change was done by Democrats. Not picking a fight, just trying to prevent a bit of misinformation spread.
Baud
@Bill Arnold: No worries.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Baud: The Subway one or the son-in-law ?
Baud
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Whatever suits your fancy.
geg6
@ruemara:
Maybe Cenk should go appear on RT again. Or change his registration back to GOP.
Gawd, I despise that asshole. Never liked him, starting years and years ago and people would ask me why and I couldn’t articulate it. It was just visceral with me and then I found out who he really is and his background. And he has done nothing since but reaffirm my instinct.
FlipYrWhig
CERTAIN DEMOCRATIC SENATORS WHO WANTED TO KEEP THE FILIBUSTER IN 2009 EITHER CHANGED THEIR MINDS OR GOT VOTED OUT OVER THE ENSUING 8 YEARS OBVIOUSLY PROVING ARGLEBARGLE ESTABLISHMENT SOMETHING SOMETHING
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@geg6: I don’t recall him being this insane while TYT was running on Current TV during the 2012 election.
And yes, he’s a flaming sack of rotted shits.
Stardus614
@Yarrow: Also a soothing image. Thank you.
SatanicPanic
@FlipYrWhig: Also, nothing of note happened since then!
geg6
@NR:
Sorry, but it’s Bernie’s team who had all the Russian connections, not any Juicers.
I wouldn’t vote for that asshole for dog catcher. Nor would I vote for anyone connected to him in any way. And there are a lot of Democrats who feel exactly the same. He’s a loser, his wife is a grifter and both are suspected tax cheats, not to mention all his own Russian connections. But you know all that. You’ve surely been given access to the kompromat.
Baud
@FlipYrWhig: Robert Byrd was once in the Klan.
Brachiator
@germy:
Well, at least until the writer’s strike.
Man, that Amy Adams can do just about anything. Really looking forward to seeing her as Dick Cheney.
Actually, this looks like an interesting cast. And I DO think that Adams is a fantastic actress. And she and Christian Bale were great in “American Hustle.”
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
By denying that the Deplorables aren’t Deplorable, old white man Bernie Sanders is suggesting that the Democratic party isn’t racist and sexist enough to appeal to them, and is gaslighting all the women and minorities who know exactly what their experiences are with Trump voters. Bernie Sanders is a fraud and con man, who Trump considers an ally against Democrats.
tybee
@NR: so says the one note boor who voted for orangemandius.
Villago Delenda Est
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Can’t naysay you here. Bernie has disappointed me greatly.
germy
@geg6: I wouldn’t vote for that asshole for dog catcher.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/12/the-populist-prophet
I think I hired those guys. My porch fell apart about three months later.
Corner Stone
Man, this place has certainly decided to be overly defensive again on a few items. There is a legitimate discussion to be debated about the application of power by both a WH and it’s nominal allies in Congress.
Republicans may know absolutely nothing about governing, but they know plenty about government. And they don’t give a fuck what anyone says. Once they get power they do everything in existence to exercise it, keep it, grow it.
Baud
FWIW, I’m not a Wilmer fan, and I know it’s the troll’s fault for showing up, but at least today, the good Senator did vote the right way on Gorsuch, so I’m a little disappointed with the direction the thread has gone in.
Bill Arnold
@Splitting Image:
As Baud notes, there would probably be some Republican opposition to completely eliminating the filibuster; Senators like having power other than simple votes.
@Seth Owen:
That change was a mixed bag; the talking requirement was removed: wikipedia on the filibuster:
and from a wikipedia ref (please forgive the link):
SatanicPanic
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: If anyone else were doing it, all my PoC friends who support Bernie would be calling it whitesplaining. But they buy into something that he’s selling, not sure exactly what.
A Ghost To Most
@StringOnAStick: Glad my family and I are not the only CO-ans who feel this way. Maybe we can get Jared Polis to run for Senate.
Baud
@SatanicPanic: Trust is kind of an arbitrary thing. Which is fine, until someone starts asserting that their trust is based on something more substantial than someone else’s trust in a different person.
FlipYrWhig
@Villago Delenda Est: Among the many things that bug me about Sanders is this notion, seemingly upheld by thousands of sensible people, that he has his finger on the pulse of the working class. He represents a rural state with no industry. Could it _perhaps_ be that his ability to make a niche for himself has something to do with the idiosyncrasies of Vermont and just might not apply to places other than fucking Vermont?
NR
@gene108: How is it good government to allow the Republicans to stop you from implementing the best policy to help the people?
But in any case, the argument that was made around here back then wasn’t that the Democrats didn’t want to get rid of the filibuster, it was that they were completely incapable of doing anything without a 60-vote supermajority. That was bullshit back then and it’s been exposed as bullshit today.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@SatanicPanic:
He’s a con man. 35 years in Congress with no signature accomplishment, riding Democratic coat tails on every issue and his followers don’t think he’s Establishment.
Iowa Old Lady
D’s filibustered and R’s went nuclear, so we will have Justice Gorsuch. But if D’s hadn’t filibustered, we’d still have Justice Gorsuch, so I don’t see any loss here.
NR
@geg6:
Oh hey, it’s this nonsense again! This is always fun.
In any case, as should have been obvious to anyone with basic reading comprehension skills, I wasn’t accusing people here of having Russian connections. That’s you guys’ schtick, not mine. I was comparing you to the Trump administration, which says that the real story isn’t the Russian connections of their people, but rather the people pointing it out. Just as you guys say that the real story isn’t the failings of the Democratic establishment, but the people who point them out.
AxelFoley
@Sebastian:
I’d be down with this.
Baud
@StringOnAStick: I’m disappointed in that vote too. Bennet is going to learn that, as a Dem, right-wing voters will hold him collectively responsible for what other Dems do. I don’t see how he benefits from this vote.
FlipYrWhig
@NR: You’re a fucking liar.
FlipYrWhig
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Mostly because of the ridiculous hair. It shows that he doesn’t care what you think of him, man! :/
randy khan
@Splitting Image:
I think the question on the filibuster for legislation is whether it serves McConnell’s purposes or not. There’s been a lot of talk about how it helps him avoid difficult votes on stupid bills from the House, which sounds reasonable but also seems to me to be a bit facile. I agree that the test will be tax legislation, although they can do some things through reconciliation that you wouldn’t expect. (IIRC, the Bush tax cuts were permitted to go through via reconciliation because they expired after 10 years; the theory at the time was that nobody would be willing to let them expire, which was only about half right.)
Captain C
@Goku: I would go with self-righteous masochist or gets paid by the post. Or some combination thereof.
? Martin
@Corner Stone: The problem for Democrats I suspect is that we believe in the power of institutions to overcome the shortcomings of the individuals in them – extending those institutions to such things like science and journalism. Trump won’t be so bad because of all of the scaffolding around him, separation of powers, etc. What we fail to acknowledge is that Republicans no longer give a shit about any of that. Institutions are just something to infect like the borg. It’s a difficult philosophical shift to say ‘fuck the institution, we need to infect it as well’. It’s also a depressing shift to make, because it cuts against the core beliefs of progressives.
germy
Was bannon posting here as srv?
Peale
Finally. It is finished. I’m pretty certain that someday the Dems will be back in power again and we’ll get our judge then. If our voters care about judges enough to show up in off years. Maybe in 2058 the cards will finally be in our favor and we’ll appoint a good judge. The Vulcan invaders will make sure of it.
Brachiator
@Seth Owen:
There is very little correlation between Trump’s approval rating and senate and house seats. Politicians think that those seats are safe because of gerrymandered districts and the power of plutocrat money.
Also, it is clear that the Republicans are going to take advantage of their current majority to enact their agenda no matter what the polls say. They are happy if Trump can continue to bamboozle his base, but the GOP will carry on even if he stumbles.
NR
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
This is 100% unadulterated bullshit. Bernie Sanders has never said the Democrats need to be more racist and sexist. This is the kind of thing he’s said on the subject, along with many more examples you can find in 10 seconds of Googling.
It’s really sad that you feel the need to lie about Bernie Sanders, but it speaks volumes about how politically empty it is to support the Democratic establishment these days.
Baud
@germy: Nah, cuck is a common adjective with that set.
@? Martin: I’m not sure progressives universally share that belief in institutions, but otherwise, I agree.
germy
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
“This world was never meant for one as beautiful as you…… Starry starry night…..”
Steve in the ATL
@geg6:
Full disclosure: in the early 1980’s, my grandmother visited St. Petersburg and Moscow at the end of an extended trip across Europe, so I may be suspect.
Johnnybuck
@Iowa Old Lady:
You can’t exactly lose something if you’re not allowed to use it in the first place.
germy
StringOnAStick
@A Ghost To Most: I’ve heard rumors of trying to get Polis to replace our governor. Do you have any insight on that race yet?
Baud
@germy: Heh.
SatanicPanic
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I’m willing to accept his Ron Paul of the left status and take his beliefs at face value. I just don’t get why they’re so appealing to the left. I guess Marxism is a hell of a drug.
Goku
@Baud: I don’t despise the guy. He’s mostly an ally of convience
Steve in the ATL
And apparently there are people playing golf in Georgia while I sit in Boston watching the rain fall.
But I’m not bitter.
Millard Filmore
@Roger Moore:
The Democrats did not have to protect the treason and coverup of their party.
burnspbesq
@germy:
More evidence that Garland was an outstanding pick.
Baud
@Goku: I’m not as passionate about him as others. But I think the situation that currently exists between the Democratic Party and him is an unstable one that will ultimately be a net negative. I would love to be proven wrong.
StringOnAStick
@Baud: Bennet just pissed off the newly energized CO Democratic party base, and in a state that is barely purple and pretty much blue now thanks to all the growth and demographic changes on the Front Range. The rural areas are reflexively R, but the metro area is growing fast and trending blue. Bennet may chose to go back to work for Anschutz if the tea leaves look bad.
Patricia Kayden
@germy: Aren’t they always in meltdown mode though? Thank goodness that they are so incompetent.
A Ghost To Most
@StringOnAStick: Ed Perlmutter, and another Dem I don’t remember (not Polis) have announced for governor. I don’t really want to lose Ed as my Congressman, but we need to replace Hick with someone sane.
SatanicPanic
@Baud: I don’t get why they were so taken with him in the first place. But who knows, I might just be a corporate DNC stooge
Baud
@StringOnAStick: If you had asked me to predict an Obama state that might go for Trump, I would have picked Colorado (possibly due to my ignorance of the state). The fact that it stayed blue is huge IMHO. That’s why I’m surprised by his decision and can’t see how this helps him (although it will be a while before he has to face reelection).
Patricia Kayden
@NR: I’m glad Sanders lost the primaries. Just like you’re ecstatic that Trump is President. Enjoy him.
germy
@Patricia Kayden:
It’s the only thing that helps me sleep at night.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@NR:
I don’t know who you think you’re convincing, but don’t waste your pixels on me. Old white man Bernie Sanders and his brosephs and brosephines want the Democratic party to pay more attention to the white working class’s issues, by centering the “white” part over the “working” part, so they’ll feel more special like they felt before BLM and LGBTQ and immigrants and uppity women and Muslims made them feel anxious inside. Really, what the country desperately needs is both parties centering straight white males.
Baud
@SatanicPanic:
Actually, I can see that. I can’t understand putting up with all the Bro-ish shenanigans. I’ve never been into anyone to that extent.
Miss Bianca
@A Ghost To Most: I’d be a little careful about hating on Bennet too much. Our “good” Senator managed to get voted out, and Bennet’s won two elections – maybe by the skin of his teeth, but he won. At this point, I feel about him the same way I feel about Manchin – not great, but maybe the best we’re going to get right now. CO really isn’t blue, or even trending blue, at this point, except in urban areas (sound familiar?)
Still feeling sick that Gail Schwartz didn’t get elected to represent CO-3. She would have been fantastic.
Mike J
@Baud: by the time Bennet faces reëlection in 2022 people are going to be more concerned with cleaning up from trump’s wars and diseases than the US supreme court.
StringOnAStick
@A Ghost To Most: I love having Ed as my congressman too and I’d hate to lose him, but I can see why he’d rather be Here than in DC. That means we have to find do fine good to replace Ed and I have no idea who that would be.
Baud
@Mike J: Maybe. But Gorsuch will still be on the court issuing awful decisions.
Mike J
NR
@Patricia Kayden: We should make a BJ drinking game. Every time someone says that anyone who has the slightest criticism of the current leadership of the Democratic party is a Trump enabler or supporter, take a shot. We’ll all be hammered by 10am every day.
Baud
@Mike J: I’m morbidly fascinated by the opposition to Putin this entails. I wonder if they think this is insulation from the investigations.
ETA: Speaking of Wilmer, I wonder what he’ll say to this. His main foreign policy position during the primary was that he was against regime change.
Chyron HR
@NR:
You got us, dude. Berning Man may have said that we need to abandon “identity politics” to appeal to the “white working class”, and he may have said he considers losing reproductive rights a worthy trade-off for achieving real progressive goals, but he never literally said the words “more racist and sexist”. Five bazillion Pinocchios to Balloon Juice!
Miss Bianca
@Miss Bianca: and since FYWP isn’t allowing me to edit my comment, I’ll just add this here: CO didn’t unseat any incumbent Republicans, as far as I’m aware, which is why I say we’re not trending blue. We seem to swing between sort-of business/ag-friendly Democrats to RWNJs on the national scene. So, I’m not about to call us a “blue state”.
randy khan
@Brachiator:
History tells us otherwise – the best way to predict what will happen in the midterms is the President’s approval rating. Gerrymandering may be effective in normal years, but in years that aren’t normal it actually may hurt the Republicans.
D58826
@Mike J: and CNN is reporting that Der Fuhrer is considering military action because of the attack.
Short of a dec. 7th style attack on the US, we simply can’t change policies that fast and w/o due consideration. Was Der Fuhrer ok with Assad earlier in the week? And there are a series of 2013 Tweets of him telling Obama no war in Syria
Kathleen
@germy: Roger Taney.
Baud
@Kathleen: Heh.
bystander
repubs back a guy who is a fraud, a conman, in bed with Putin, and a sexual predator. Of course, they voted to go nuclear. What is that to that bunch of traitors?
StringOnAStick
@Baud: The thing you have to know about Bennet is he used to work for Phil Anschutz, a very rich wing nut. Our biggest hospital has the Anschutz name on it and it is tied to CO University, who’s current President is a former wing nut governor from many years ago. Bennett’s has always been in finance before government so he has a lot of benefactors from the right side of the aisle. I’ve been suspicious of him ever since I went to a presentation where he favorably introduced the results of the Simpson-Bowles crapfest (it had little Pauly Ryan as a member).
A Ghost to Most
@Miss Bianca:
I sent a message to Bennet, calling him “Colorado’s Joe Manchin”, and promising to work to replace him. He sold out to the moneyed interests, whose followers won’t vote for Bennet anyway.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mike J: As I recall, Obama hesitated to push Assad out because he was concerned that ISIS would fill the void.
Baud
@StringOnAStick: I had heard about his connections. I guess we’ll see how it plays out. I’d be more pissed if his vote prevented the filibuster, so I’m glad that didn’t happen.
Mike J
@D58826:
I think there are also tweets from him complaining that Obama didn’t attack without an AUMF. There’s probably a Trump tweet for almost anything you want. Mars is made of purple cats? Wouldn’t surprise me that he tweeted it.
Miss Bianca
@NR: What should be obvious to you by now, if you weren’t ideologically committed to being thicker than a pile of bricks, is that what we resent is someone like YOU coming round bitching about the “Democratic establishment”. Most of the rest of us here are busting our asses working on making the Party better thru’ active participation in the process, or by activism outside the party.. All you apparently do is sit around and demand that the party meet YOUR standards. You’re like the guy who shows up to a potluck with a little bag of potato chips that he eats by himself and doesn’t share, and then bitches about how lousy the food is. You’re a leech – a leech on our collective energy,. Go out and do something actually useful, why don’t you?
FlipYrWhig
@NR: I really don’t think you’re the right guy to crack wise about people’s tendencies to repeat themselves, bud.
D58826
@Mike J: no if it’s trump the cats have to be orange
FlipYrWhig
@Miss Bianca: But the party should be good, not bad, and agree with NR, rather than disagreeing with him, because reasons! We should count ourselves lucky to have been rewarded this long with such political genius.
Corner Stone
@Mike J:
There is no fucking way this can be implemented by this admin.
StringOnAStick
So now regime change is on? I wonder what Vlad thinks about this? It will take some time to gear this up to operational, so the more he pounds on this idea, the worse it will look when Vlad yanks his chain or decides to cut his investment losses.
? Martin
@Baud: I think broadly we do. That’s a foundational part of ‘government helps people’ vs ‘I am a rugged individualist that doesn’t need government’ as a basic split between the two parties. We think everyone should vote and the system take care of itself, they think only the right people should in order to ‘correct’ the system that they think cannot work, etc.
gene108
@NR:
Institutions, in strong governments, have traditions and rules that transcend any individual or group to make moves to seize power and/or push through their agenda without regard for anything else.
There’s going to be some compromise, which is how representative democracies are supposed to work, unless one party has such an overwhelming majority they can safely ignore everyone else.
It brings a certain level of stability to things, because no one Party should be able to cause government to lurch in one direction or the other. And it keeps anyone individual or Party from becoming demagogues that cause catastrophic changes to the country.
Raven Onthill
So now a minority party has no power in the US Congress.
How can this system last?
As to Gorsuch, he is a perjurer and a plagiarist, and belongs on no court at all for these reasons. The Republican support of him shows a complete abandonment of conservative principles.
GregB
I also assume one of the reasons Obama ws reluctant to go all in agsinst Assad was the possibility of lighting the fuse to a full Iran crisis, war.
Word is Kushner is on board with an Iran war.
That will lead to WWIII.
Shalimar
@Bill Arnold: Reid had no choice. McConnell was filibustering every nominee at that point. It was either eliminate the filibuster, or leave various courts seriously under-staffed. It should have been done a few years earlier, as McConnell made it very clear by Obama’s inauguration what he would be doing for the next 4-8 years.
Baud
@Corner Stone: As a matter of semantics, does one “implement” a clusterfuck?
? Martin
@Corner Stone: Nope. Stochastic policy-making. Next week Putin will have thumped his chest and Trump will be cool with Assad again because he’ll see the opportunity for a better deal with Russia than with Syria. Dead children have a limited shelf life in negotiations.
Corner Stone
@Miss Bianca:
Party? Active measures?
I’m on to you, Comrade!
Timurid
@Mike J:
That will get us into a shooting war with Russia, full stop.
Unless Putin decides to forestall any conflict by opening the Trump kompromat folder and hitting CTRL-A, CTRL-C, REPLY ALL, CTRL-V and SEND…
FlipYrWhig
@GregB: Good thing we were spared the bloodthirsty reign of Empress Hillary, Talon of a Vengeful God! :P
germy
@Miss Bianca:
“And such small portions.”
Amarantine RBG
If I recall correctly, some very perspicacious commenters predicted this some time ago… along with some particular unpleasantness as certain aged and infirm justices pass away before 2020.
Miss Bianca
@Corner Stone: Well, great. Because: WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG with an incompetent Republican administration declaring for “regime change” somewhere in the Middle East?
Lee
@randy khan: Unless states have realigned their districts since 2010, 2018 will be the second least effective election for gerrymandering (2020 will be the least).
StringOnAStick
@Baud: Yes, his canned email response was about wanting to preserve Senate traditions, no surprise on that excuse. It will be awhile before he’s up for election again, and this state is trending younger. I won’t participate in a burning of his chances for a Wilmer clone because of the inherent risk, but he’d better be a solid Democrat from now on too. I can see why he didn’t want to annoy his funders and in the end it didn’t matter. I wonder how Schumer rates the hard luck stories on who gets the few “no” votes available for face saving purposes?
? Martin
@Baud: That’s an interesting question. I would argue that the GOPs handling of Obamacare is a deliberate effort to turn the ACA into a clusterfuck. But we would consider the effort itself a clusterfuck if it made Americans like the ACA more. Seems to depend on what you’re measuring. Did Russia engineer the US election into a clusterfuck? Yeah…?
Miss Bianca
@Corner Stone: Not HERE, Tovarisch! You’ll blow my cover!
lollipopguild
@Baud: Very carefully.
Shalimar
@GregB: Depends on whether Iran has allies or not. If Russia were to drop their support for Iran in exchange for Trump dropping sanctions and approving that pipeline he has already gotten 19% of Rosneft for agreeing to, then Iran becomes less of a global war.
Mike J
@StringOnAStick:
Greenwald is already saying that Trump was forced into this by all the people calling him a Putin puppet.
Timurid
@Corner Stone:
Not without a shooting war with Russia.
That, or Putin opening the Trump kompromat folder and hitting CTRL-A, CTRL-C, REPLY ALL, CTRL-V and SEND…
different-church-lady
@Mike J:
Gee, what a shame for him he spent a year crapping all over NATO.
Baud
@Mike J: Hahaha. He’s really become a parody of himself.
A Ghost To Most
@StringOnAStick: Me either. I wonder if asshole Joe Coors will try again, if Ed leaves his seat.
Miss Bianca
@Mike J: for realz?
Just goes to show that whether this is real or it’s parody, I honestly can’t tell anymore with this guy. Because as Baud (!2020!) points out, he really *has* become a parody of himself.
hueyplong
I think this is just a room for tossing around b.s. in an entertaining fashion, so I am less annoyed by NR’s antics than most. But I can’t help noting that NR’s self-regard gives Trump a run for his (borrowed) money.
StringOnAStick
@Mike J: “Forced”? Wow, griftwald has a serious argument there, one I recall from elementary school. I’m sure it still took him 100,000 words to make it too.
StringOnAStick
@A Ghost To Most: I wonder if Joe Coors would be willing to step “down” to the House after his aborted run for the Senate. Eh, I guess power is power. I’m going to miss Ed P, and since I was shocked to see what a knuckle dragging winger my district sent to the state senate, I should be careful in my predictions.
germy
Barbara
@GregB: Then Kushner is a big idiot along with anyone else who buys Bibi Netanyahu’s kool-aid that Iran can be taken out by high tech weapons. Iran has nearly 100 million people, and a very large, professional army with modern weaponry.
Baud
TPM just now.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Good. Obama could have really used this while he had the chance.
This shitstain is now gone forever.
Corner Stone
@germy:
Get ready for a big shit salad, with several dead Russians as plating garnish.
D58826
@StringOnAStick: Does ‘regime change’ include taking on the Russian military stationed in Syria? Putin may have blasted Assad for what he did but that is only for PR purposes. I doubt Putin would care if somebody poisoned his kids. Syria is to important to the Russians to simply walk away. And then there is Iran. Will they happily watch as the US bombs Iranian troops? Sure in a pigs eye.
And why anyone would think that a blood thirsty butcher like Assad would be cowed by some airstrikes or cruse missles is living in a dream world.
It’s Der Fuhrer going off half cocked in a crisis just like ‘she who shall not be named’ said he would.
Barbara
@germy: The word whiplash doesn’t do this justice. More like someone in a little skiff drifting in the ocean being pushed by whatever the latest currents are.
Corner Stone
Our POTUS talks about war crimes like he’s telling mommy about his recent poopy.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Sanders is one of the few active politicians with residual national name recognition after the presidential elections. Didn’t the Democrats send Sanders and Elizabeth Warren out to stump for Democratic issues?
I can understand the Bernie hate. But it’s not really getting you anywhere. Especially when the real adversary is Trump.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@A Ghost to Most: You mean, “Colorado’s Cuomo.”
@Baud: “Something something King Abdullah” was also a big part of it. I was never particularly bullish on Clinton’s foreign policy, but Wilmer’s amateurism on that front is what convinced me he was the wrong person to challenge her from the left.
Barbara
@Baud: I guess it depends on whether you measure success by tangible legislation or media ratings.
Mike J
@StringOnAStick: He said the reason why Bush the elder invaded Panama was because people were mean and called him a wimp. Trump’s invasion will be because he wants to show independence from Putin, and therefore it will all be the fault of people who complained about Russian interference.
germy
Baud
@Mike J:
Did he actually say this part?
Baud
@germy: Coincidentally, that’s what everyone else is saying about Trump.
glory b
@Baud:”FWIW, I’m not a Wilmer fan, and I know it’s the troll’s fault for showing up, but at least today, the good Senator did vote the right way on Gorsuch, so I’m a little disappointed with the direction the thread has gone in.”
I’m not. He had to do this or lose his ability to become our John McCain on Sunday Morning.
Like my Poppy said, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again.
Roger Moore
@Iowa Old Lady:
Not a problem for someone who wants an Islamist enemy to be at perpetual war with.
Corner Stone
Who is that brunette in the sun dress walking out of Airforce One with Trump? It looks more like Katy Tur than Melania.
Baud
@glory b: I hear you. I tend to focus more on actions than motivations.
Barbara
@Baud: I don’t think anyone really disputes that the Senator from Vermont has a pretty reliable voting record on anything other than guns. He certainly outshines Susan Collins, another non-Democrat representing a New England state. I would never in a million years have complained about him except that he has added to his portfolio a presumed mission of scolding Democrats generally and one Democrat in particular on bases that I deem to be illogical and unfair.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Brachiator:
Yes, they were both just in Boston together, where Sanders made it a point to shit talk Hillary and the Dem campaign, like he had nothing to do with anything. Someone should let Sanders know the enemy is Trump, but Trump always likes to stoke Sanders ego by letting him know that he, too, believes BS was cheated. One con man recognizing another.
Baud
@Barbara: I feel the same way. He chose this lifestyle.
Brachiator
@randy khan: RE: There is very little correlation between Trump’s approval rating and senate and house seats. Politicians think that those seats are safe because of gerrymandered districts and the power of plutocrat money.
We disagree that polls are predictive. And I don’t think it makes much sense to say that history is going to tell you something definitive about an abnormal year.
But what the hey. Doesn’t much matter. I think we agree that Trump needs to be taken down. It is still early, and Trump’s support among his base is still strong. People have to continue to resist, to oppose him, to find candidates who may run against him and his policies. The tough daily work of politics.
Roger Moore
@Mike J:
You’ve got to be shitting me.
TriassicSands
@Chris:
What was it legendary Tweester Little Donnie Trump said?
Oh, yes.
Sad!
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: Sanders represents intellectual liberalism in the SDS tradition. That’s totally fine. He’s a rumpled old professor type. Maybe there’s charm in it; I’ve seen enough of that shtick for long enough to think it wears thin and smug. But now we’re supposed to believe that he has such a great connection to the “working class.” On that score he’s a pretender, and far too many people let him get away with it. Based on the results, in 2008 the primary candidate with a great connection to the working class was… Hillary Clinton. Sanders talks about class because he’s a bookish Marxist and he romanticizes the struggle. He’s hopelessly confused about all of those issues.
Baud
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I think the real test/final straw for me will be that People’s Summit event coming up in June in Chicago. We’ll see how he and others comport themselves vis-a-vis the Democratic Party.
Iowa Old Lady
@D58826: I heard some R congressman saying that if we accidentally killed Russians, that was on the Russians because they shouldn’t have been there. That is what passes for strategic thinking.
? Martin
@germy:
Most middle school students could articulate a clearer foreign policy philosophy than that.
GregB
@Barbara:
Oh I have said for years, attacking Iran will trigger a global conflagration. These are the idiots who will do it.
Time to redo the war scene from Dr. Strangelove a la Downfall.
efgoldman
@Larryb:
Garland had/has nothing whatsoever to do with the filibuster, since the majority refused even to consider his nomination in committee, never mind bringing it to the floor for debate and vote.
The lack of action was unprecedented and the ultimate asshole move, but under senate rules, the minority had/has no leverage to force it.
Brachiator
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: RE: Didn’t the Democrats send Sanders and Elizabeth Warren out to stump for Democratic issues?
Yeah, I saw some of that. Bernie is doing his own thing.
I didn’t follow the story in detail. Didn’t have time. How did the audience react? If Sanders continue to talk the Democrats down, and the Democrats allow it, there’s a bit of a problem. If crowds react favorably to Sanders’ message, there’s even more of a problem.
But the bottom line is that as long as Bernie has appeal to any sizable group of voters, the Democrats have to find a way to use Sanders to their advantage to help go after Trump.
Mike J
@Baud: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/850017131710353410
randy khan
@Brachiator:
Amen to that.
Chet Murthy
@NR:
Aww, now who’s projecting?
Baud
@Mike J:
Thanks. LOL. I wonder if he thinks Hillary’s “warmongering” is related to attacks on her or is simply because she is an evil bitch.
GregB
On the bright side, Trump can use the international good will he has cultivated to put together a war on Syria coalition consisting of the US, Israel and the Maldives.
patroclus
The response to this should be eliminating the filibuster for legislative matters the next time the Democrats control the Senate. No more 60 vote thresholds for anything. That’s the way the Constitution was written and except for a brief period in the beginning, that lasted until the advent of WWI when LaFollette filibustered Wilson’s request to arm merchant ships right at the end of the 1915-17 Congress. It only became a sacred “thing” when the Southern Senators wanted to filibuster civil rights. Yes, it would mean Republicans could do horrible things, but it would be a lot easier to change them back and it would be a LOT easier to pass liberal legislation. With today’s action, the Republicans have opened the door for that – I think we should do it the next time control of the Senate flips.
Patricia Kayden
@GregB: Will Kushner be part of the American fighter forces? Naw. But he’s all in for a war. Nice to know.
Chris
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
I don’t know what the hell his foreign policy was. I don’t think he did, either. As with the things he calls “identity politics,” the few times I heard him talk about it his reaction, what he was doing was mostly just finding a way to quickly bring the topic back to his favorite pet issue of economics. The fact that he was so clearly a one-trick pony is actually the main reason I didn’t support him in the primary.
Yutsano
@StringOnAStick: Senator Hickenlooper then?
Seth Owen
@Corner Stone: It’s way too late for that. This is like Great Britain deciding to help the CSA six months into the seige of Petersburg.
Patricia Kayden
@Mike J: Dang. I can’t even fall out laughing. Greenwald is such a stupid person that I can’t believe that anyone takes him seriously.
Chet Murthy
@Patricia Kayden:
Maybe I’m late to the party, but “I’ve been there” was the last straw for me.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Baud:
The name of that thing infuriates me – “beyond the resistance” – like, thanks all you middle aged ladies who voted for Hillary and have been out in front of this every day since Jan. 20, but that was then and this is now and me and Jane will grift this from here and make it about us.
D58826
@FlipYrWhig: He could not help get Feingold elected in Wisc. or the single payer initiative in Co. last Nov.
What ever good ideas he has, in theory, just don’t translate to votes in 49 of the 50 states. And the more he nags and his purity pony supporters sit off in the corner, the longer it will take fore the D’s to come up a progressive leaning platform that can still win elections in places like Iowa an W. VA..
But in the mean time we have regime change in Syria to worry about.
zhena gogolia
@patroclus:
Jimmy Stewart has a lot to answer for also too.
Spanky
Aw shit. Don Rickles died today.
germy
@Spanky: He’s in heaven now with Jack E. Leonard.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Spanky: Mentioned that upthread,
FlipYrWhig
@Chris: It was “no more Vietnams,” because everything about him is embedded in the amber of 1966.
Gravenstone
@germy: How very fucking … decisive of you, Donch. As predicted, the fucking moron has absolutely zero clue what to do now that he’s faced with an actual crisis.
schrodingers_cat
@Chris: A favorite subject that he does not know much about. See his answer to how he would regulate banks.
Spanky
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Barely skimmed because of trollery.
Bill Arnold
@germy:
That HuffPo piece deserves a link: Steve Bannon Calls Jared Kushner a ‘Cuck’ and ‘Globalist’ Behind His Back. The (alleged) details are fun. (Again, I hope some of this is being recorded for use by future historians and script writers.) Sample:
Baud
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: I don’t understand that. Bernie people were instrumental in the Woman’s March and Michael Moore is always talking about the resistance.
Archon
@Iowa Old Lady:
Some people said the same thing during the Cuban Missile Crisis, that if some Russians got killed during the bombing of Cuba’s weapons sites it would be their own fault.
Luckily, in 1960 we didn’t have a floundering, mentally ill President. Now? All bets are off.
Archon
If there were ever a time for our enemies to test the resolve and leadership of the United States when it comes to geopolitics, it’s now.
Larryb
@Dave: You are, of course, correct. On the other hand, Ruth Ginsberg might have retired before 2006 if she thought Ried would have pushed a decent replacement through.
Cacti
Surprised to see this on The Intercept.
Top Democrats Are Wrong: Trump Supporters Were More Motivated by Racism Than Economic Issues
PaulW
Remember Merrick Garland.
Remember Merrick Garland.
Remember Merrick Garland.
AND VOTE EVERY GODDAMN REPUBLICAN OUT OF OFFICE.
jl
@Baud: The HRC/Bernie feud is always the most important thing, except for the HRC/Bernie feud. Always remember that.
Edit: remember to get your ass in gear next election so we don’t have to deal with this anymore. 2020 is your year. After Trump, using a burned-out van down by the river as your weekend White House won’t be a big deal.
PaulW
@Spanky:
Who’s gonna voice Mr. Potato Head now?!
randy khan
@GrandJury:
Anthony Kennedy 80 years old
Clarence Thomas 68 years old
Samuel Alito 67 years old
John Roberts 62 years old
An actuary would tell you that at least one of them is likely to leave the court (that’s the nice way to say it) within the next ten years.
This is not to say that there isn’t a significant risk of losing one of the leftish wing of the Court, just that the Gorsuch nomination is not that bad of a disaster.
Chris
@Archon:
That’s exactly where my mind went when I read that.
I’ve wondered in the past how totally boned we might’ve been with someone else in the White House. Nixon’s a scary thought, but imagine Goldwater…
PaulW
@mike in dc:
We’re gonna have to pass a Constitutional Amendment that caps the Supreme Court to 17 seats. I mean, cmon 25 is a bit too much.
schrodingers_cat
@jl: BS is never wrong, he can only be wronged.
Patricia Kayden
@Brachiator: What is Sanders doesn’t want to go after Ttump? What if he’s more invested in going after perceived problems with Democrats? I’d rather Democrats not depend on or need to use the Sanders of the world.
different-church-lady
@Cacti: Shorter Intercept: when faced with the two options, bashing Democrats takes precedence over defending Trump.
Baud
@jl: Nah, this isn’t about HRC right now. Bernie really shit the bed in Boston.
Baud
@Cacti:
Which top Democrats are they referring to? Warren?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Baud:
Sick of these white males like Wilmer and Moore grandstanding the efforts of mostly women trying to clean up the mess they helped create. The resistance is 85% female. Wilmer didn’t have anything to do with the Women’s March, and I don’t see how anything he’s doing is helpful to anyone other than himself now. He wants us to pretend the Deplorables aren’t really Deplorable. Fuck him.
les
@germy:
Jesus fuckin’ Christ, the ignorant asshole can still surprise me. Ladies and gentlemen, the president of these United fuckin’ States.
jl
@schrodingers_cat: I dismiss this nonsense as attempts at humor, so don’t respond. If people here want to soak in their bitterness over the primary and general election, that is fine.
If HRC or Sanders are the candidates in 2020, or their factions are still fighting and trying to run things all by themselves we are in deep shit and might have to welcome another 4 years of Trump. Neither of them are spring chickens and neither are their political platforms. So, time to move on.
? Martin
@Bill Arnold:
Interesting that even when nobody is watching, Bannon can’t escape political correctness and just come out and call him a ‘dirty fucking jew’ like you know he wants to.
different-church-lady
@Baud:
Sanders?
efgoldman
@Steve in the ATL:
Holy shit. Hartsfield’s still closed?
You could have rented a car and driven most of the way by now.
Mnemosyne
@The Moar You Know:
You mean when all the “progressive” Democrats lined up and said Garland shouldn’t be confirmed because he was “to the right of Scalia” thanks to one (1) Guantanamo decision Garland made?
Sorry, but there’s plenty of blame to be spread around, and some of it falls on the “left libertarian” Democrats who decided that Garland wasn’t pure enough for them to support.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Cacti:
Who are they referring to? It was HRC who called them Deplorables.
Mnemosyne
@Baud:
Wilmer.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Corner Stone:
That would actually result in release of the peepee video….
Baud
@Mnemosyne: I didn’t click through. Is that right? Seems odd that they would make that mistake.
And the title suggests more than one.
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne: Naw, they may have been idiotic, but they had nothing to do with Garland being blocked in the pre-nuke stage.
schrodingers_cat
@jl: You should perhaps give that advice to the senator going around giving speeches where he is trashing the Democrats and writing op-eds about how we need to cooperate with T.
Cacti
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Bernie and Elizabeth Warren.
Baud
@Cacti: Can’t believe they called Bernie a Dem.
glory b
@Amarantine RBG: Me, for one.
Still furious at RBG that she didn’t retire at the beginning of Obama’s first term.
Don’t understand how she could be “such good friends” with Scalia, who’s life’s work consisted of negating hers.
She’ll be another Marshall, who had to resign in poor health and saw himself replaced by Uncle Thomas. HOW COULD SHE NOT HAVE SEEN THIS COMING???
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Actually, we don’t have to “believe” anything. Is Sanders getting results, applause, people listening to him?
Well said. I agree with most of this. But, again, is Sanders drawing a crowd? Are people listening to him?
Also, did you really mean to reference 2008? In 2008 Hillary’s connection with the white working class included the early fires of fear of Obama. If the Democrats see some value in Sanders, they should continue to use him. But the larger issue is that they have to develop some fresh talent.
Chris
@Cacti:
Has Warren actually jumped into the “they’re just misunderstood and economically anxious” crap? It’s pretty much just Sanders and his various media and blogospheric groupies that I’ve been hearing it from.
A Ghost to Most
@Yutsano:
Hick is very Jimmy Stewart-ish. I have a hard time seeing him flourish in DC, but I’ll support him if he tries
Miss Bianca
@Bill Arnold: OMG… a ‘globalist’…as in, “Make America Global(ist) Again”? Say it ain’t so!
Kay
I’m glad Democrats are fighting. They have a base and they have to fight for it.
People really just want someone on their side. I learned this in law practice. Don’t discount what even a losing battle means to people. A lot. They want you to fight for them. It’s really that simple sometimes. Clever tactics are great and practical compromises are fine too, but at some point you really do have to get bloodied up on their behalf. They will love you for it. It’s not at all rational but it’s very human and understandable.
opiejeanne
@Larryb:Never mind. I’m an idiot.
Barbara
@Bill Arnold: I don’t believe that Bannon has a specific vision. The health care bill proves that once and for all time. If your presumed voting bloc consists of down on their luck blue collar white working class people, you don’t start your legislative career off by endorsing one of the most punitive legislative measures ever devised to suck money out of that very demographic and give it to an investor class that Bannon says he blames first and foremost for enabling China with investment capital. That is so illogical he is either lying to all and sundry about what he believes or he is stupid. No, Bannon is bought and paid for by the Mercers and Kushner isn’t. Occam’s razor tells me that’s what is going on because what he has proposed so far is much more palatable to the Mercers than to the white working class.
mapaghimagsik
@germy: purported followers. But Bernie coming out and saying “Hey, shut the phuck up!” would have been gratifying.
Brachiator
@Patricia Kayden:
I think it is better to try to contain Sanders, for now. But his attacks on the Democrats are a problem that have to be dealt with.
Baud
@mapaghimagsik: They were his delegates.
Miss Bianca
@Baud:
Bernie.
@different-church-lady: @Mnemosyne: ETA: Jinx!
Baud
@Kay: Agree.
mapaghimagsik
@? Martin: When you decode it, he did. Sticking to code words is part of their success.
mapaghimagsik
@Baud: oi. Learn something new. He could have been a lot more forceful then.
Chyron HR
@Baud:
Yeah, but he just handed delegate coupons out to any Libertarian/Green/Anarchist who asked, so you can’t hold him responsible for who his delegates were.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator: I think Sanders is getting a ton of mileage out of depicting himself as “Bernie Sanders, the guy who you can tell is honest and says what he thinks because he’s willing to look and sound funny.” But we’re mistaking that for sympathy with his ideology, which I think is extremely shallow (the sympathy, that is, not the ideology, but maybe a little of both).
And in 2008 pundits were saying that the white working class’s connection to Hillary was that she was tough and practical and reminded them of Bill. Only later has there been a reorientation of that story to define her appeal as mostly anti-Obama. But _by that same token_ we don’t know yet if the white working class’s affinity for Bernie Sanders is associated with something he wants to do, some part of his persona, or mostly that he wasn’t Hillary Clinton. I think the 3rd option is a significant factor, the 1st option is minimal, and for that reason I’m tired of hearing him get treated as Mr. Working Class. He’s from a totally different part of the liberal tradition, the student radical part. He just does this vaguely Marxist fanboy cosplay and for some reason people buy it. I think it’s gross.
amk
@Kay: That rule doesn’t seem to apply for repubs. Their voters turn out regardless of how their cong critters kick them in their teeth and vote for them. Sorry, the dem base needs to get some reality check.
FlipYrWhig
@Barbara: Bannon’s vision is angry white people from all social classes coming together to hurt The Other.
amk
fywp.
eta: and this goes through.
Chris
@Brachiator:
Yeah, it’s a problem that really doesn’t have a solution right now. We can’t afford to alienate even a couple more percentage points right now, but there’s also really no way to pacify a guy who won’t take yes for an answer (Hillary did respond to the economic left’s demands, and the response was “she doesn’t really mean it”). It’s pretty much entirely on 1) hoping he doesn’t do too much damage to the brand and 2) hoping he finally wakes up and stops being the five-year-old child he’s been his entire career (that last one I’m not too hopeful for).
FlipYrWhig
@mapaghimagsik: He, and they, were still all pouty about the DNC emails at that moment.
Barbara
@FlipYrWhig: Then I guess his strategy is to make those people even angrier by reducing more of them to penury. Seriously, I see tactics not strategy.
FlipYrWhig
@Chris: There’s a difference between being a gadfly and being a leader, even of a faction. He’s much better at the gadfly part. The thing I think back to was when he talked about his VA reform bill and how they had all kinds of great ideas but the Republicans didn’t let them do them all, which was so frustrating. YA THINK? Welcome to the fucking political process, shithead.
FlipYrWhig
@Barbara: I think you’re not far off. He likes angry mobs.
D58826
@Kay: shorter version – remember the alamo
amk
remember ed schultz, the dahling of the loony left?
Bill Arnold
@glory b:
She should have seen the possibility, yes. Many of us saw better than even odds that a Democrat would succeed Obama; probably she did too. Oops.
mapaghimagsik
@FlipYrWhig: I’ll be honest, I don’t pay much attention to them. It’s kind of depressing if they are that obtuse.
SatanicPanic
@Kay: 100% this. Also, the people (mostly women) who have been hitting the phones every day made this happen.
Timurid
Posts sent earlier from my work computer were vanishing into thin air (no error messages, no moderation).
Trying again from home…
Tom Q
@FlipYrWhig: “I think Sanders is getting a ton of mileage out of depicting himself as “Bernie Sanders, the guy who you can tell is honest and says what he thinks because he’s willing to look and sound funny.” But we’re mistaking that for sympathy with his ideology, which I think is extremely shallow (the sympathy, that is, not the ideology, but maybe a little of both). ”
Paul Tsongas in ’92 had some of the same appeal. He was so obviously Not Slick & Handsome that he got this over-sized rep for being a Truth Teller. And to make your point: though Tsongas’ economics were close to 180 degrees away from Sanders, I knew some of the same people who were enthusiastic for both.
Someone pointed out in ’92, it was a corollary to something Bill James once wrote about baseball: if you saw a shortstop come to bat with an average under .200, you assumed he must be a whale of a fielder, because otherwise, why would he be on the team?
Patricia Kayden
@amk: To be honest, I used to love Ed. Sad to see that he’s completely gone off the rails.
Steve in the ATL
@efgoldman: I’m at Logan again. Maybe tonight I’ll leave on a plane instead of in a cab!
And I hope someone is enjoying my masters badges today.
Jeffro
Because everyone needs a laugh: Bureau of Land Management changes its website photo from two boys hiking in nature to…a big lump of coal.
NOT The Onion (although who can tell anymore?)
FlipYrWhig
@Tom Q: Great comparison. You are NOT kidding. Same goes for Bill Bradley. Unpolished as signifier for incorruptible.
germy
@FlipYrWhig:
amk
FU sarandon, stein & co.
rikyrah
@Kay:
TRUTH.
Bill Arnold
@Barbara:
With this, I do not disagree. Bannon has some talent, particularly with intuitions about mass emotional manipulation, but he tries to stir up chaos and manipulate it (“ride the tiger”[1]), an approach which is pretty much the opposite of strategy.
[1] To be honest, haven’t read it yet.
Kathleen
@Brachiator: Bernie is an enemy as well. He’s toxic.
schrodingers_cat
Are FPers waiting for the counter to hit 500?
Kathleen
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Those lake homes, private jets for trips to Rome and lamb sliders don’t pay for themselves, you know.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
As ever: Get Wilmer to understand that and there’ll be a lot less hate directed at him.
I’m just reading a few things around twitter, and was reminded that besides the overblown resentment and some guilt on the Dems’ side about Bork (no one ever mentions that Reagan nominating him was intentionally provocative), Jon Lovett brought up the fury over Thomas. I think that was the last time Dem voters at large really seemed to care about the Supreme Court. I just wonder if Gorsuch is committed enough to overturn Roe, or if he understands the longer game of chipping away at it, and if/how people will get lit up about the Court in 2018
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Re: Clarence Thomas — Joe Biden’s abiding moment of shame. It was surreal.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
I think it’s plenty rational. It’s a question of imperfect information. When you’re counting on somebody else fighting for you, it’s usually because you don’t understand enough to fight for yourself. You’re stuck depending on them not just to fight for you but also to tell you what’s going on. If they keep folding rather than fighting, there’s always a worry that they’re not giving you their best. But if they lose a bloody fight, it’s evidence of good faith, both in their willingness to fight for you and their honesty about which fights are winnable.
Roger Moore
@FlipYrWhig:
Maybe one needs to assemble outside his house; we’ll see how happy he is with them then.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
I was never on the Bernie Bus and lost all interest with him during his NY Daily News interview. I didn’t depend on others’ conclusions. I read his responses and found them to be shallow and insufficient.
But I also saw him charm people. Including Trump supporters (doesn’t mean that they would vote for him).
I saw Sanders win over women and Latinos here in Southern California, as well as long time Democrats who have never been happy with the party. And there is a point where reasonable doubts about Sanders himself becomes a pointless attempt to attack people who like him, who are simply not that thrilled with some of the other current Democrats. But this is not necessarily because the Democrats are weak. It’s just that some of them are unknown.
Uh, no. I was there in 2008. I saw Hillary play that tune, “Hey, vote for me, I’m a real Democrat, and I’m white.” I saw Bill and Hillary pointlessly alienate black voters and flash their anger and condescending resentment (and to be fair here, it was much more Bill than Hillary here). No one knew how toxic this could be. And the genuine enthusiasm for Obama for a while overwhelmed the smoldering fear and loathing bubbling up in some white people.
Everyone cannot have a shriveled middle aged middle class heart. Some people are young in spirit. This has always been a part of the radical left. Right now, Sanders is one of those who know how to work it. I agree with all your reservations about Sanders. But somebody among the Democrats is going to have to rise up and pull together the various wings of the party. You know, like Obama did. And yeah, even Hillary, who won more goddam votes than Trump had a fairly wide appeal, but just needed to pull a few more folks over to her side.
So, again, one day, maybe everyone who is justifiably tired of Sanders will be rid of him. But for now, he is useful, and maybe even dangerous if he were to be allowed to stray too far from the Democratic Party camp.
amk
@Kay: Sorry Kay, the dem base has a lot to learn from the rethugs base. This tickle my bones ‘entitlement’ has been a losing concept for years now.
les
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Hell no. The thugs know they can’t win with just racists, and they aren’t about to lose the forced birth voters.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
also: Poor Bob Newhart
Roger Moore
@Jeffro:
On the coal front, there’s this wonderful piece of irony:
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Brachiator:
I agree with a lot of this, but going forward we need to include what we now know about the *70,000* people in 3 states that she needed to win to win- that the Trump campaign was coordinating w/ Russia to run fake news stories in MI, WI and PA, that Russia was counting on, and successfully manipulating, gullible Berniebros, and also we need to more fully understand what Jill Stein was doing w/ Flynn and Putin. Let’s also not dismiss vote suppression, something Wilmer never gets around to mentioning on his shit talking the Dem self aggrandizing tour.
Bill Arnold
Oy. Full video of Rep M. Conaway ((R) Texas) vs Comey
This is a man who was elected by his constituents to represent them!!!!
StringOnAStick
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: @the Conster, la Citoyenne: I very much agree with this. It is just a bit too cute that it was only such a small number of votes in just the right places. Smells funny.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@StringOnAStick:
Sure does. Putin had 4 cards to play – Trump, Wilmer, Stein and wikileaks and I’ll throw in Comey as a possibility too. Frankly I don’t want to hear another peep out of Wilmer until he discloses all of his financials – he evaded filing his personal finances with the FEC after getting 2 extensions, then dropping out of the race right before the filing deadline, but long after he was mathematically eliminated, but while he was still grifting on his “it was rigged” bullshit, and then he paid for his 3rd house in cash. Millions went to Old Towne Media. That has Jane Sanders all over it, and I’m fucking sick to death of hearing about Wilmer and the sack cloth and ashes shtick. The guy’s a grifting fraud.