• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

This fight is for everything.

I would try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

This really is a full service blog.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Republicans in disarray!

You cannot shame the shameless.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. do not touch it.”

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

We can’t confuse what’s necessary to win elections with the policies that we want to implement when we do.

Nothing says ‘pro-life’ like letting children go hungry.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

When I was faster i was always behind.

Mobile Menu

  • Seattle Meet-up Post
  • 2025 Activism
  • Targeted Political Fundraising
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2025 Activism
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Open Threads / Set It In Stone

Set It In Stone

by @heymistermix.com|  April 8, 20179:23 pm| 100 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

FacebookTweetEmail


She sings like the love child of Bruce Springsteen and Lucinda Williams. Open thread.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Carried in the Arms of Cheerleaders
Next Post: Late Night Cruel Plebian Mockery Open Thread: Jared of Arabia »

Reader Interactions

100Comments

  1. 1.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 9:27 pm

    Glittery eyes too.

  2. 2.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 9:35 pm

    Evening BJ.

    Alright now…Bodyguard musical was pretty good! Had to try my hardest NOT to sing along LOUDLY! Ms Deborah Cox sounded fabulous and the actress who played her sister sang beautifully. If you loved the movie and you love Whitney Houston’s music…It really was great. they the 6 most iconic songs from the movie and 6 or so of Whitney’s greatest hits…and incorporated them all throughout the musical. Def recommend it

  3. 3.

    Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA

    April 8, 2017 at 9:36 pm

    More Star Anna: Alone In This Together. I love her.

  4. 4.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 9:36 pm

    So..I think I asked design advice before, but in case I forgot…here are the chairs I got…this is the chocolate sofa I want…does it work? maybe with accent pillows for sofa to match the chairs? Remember the sofa will likely look a bit darker under my apt lights. I was thinking …like maybe the same blue (or close to it) of the chairs for the sofa, and maybe pillows for chairs close to color of sofa

    https://twitter.com/psddluva4evah/status/850882020800696321

  5. 5.

    sukabi

    April 8, 2017 at 10:02 pm

    Ready for more military drama?

  6. 6.

    sukabi

    April 8, 2017 at 10:06 pm

    @lamh36: sure get some accent pillows that have a design pattern that has the same shade of blue and some lighter blues of the same blue family…and it will look great.

    Edit…especially if the pillows have a tiny bit of the sofa brown

  7. 7.

    Shana

    April 8, 2017 at 10:11 pm

    @lamh36: Absolutely they work together. They’re both relatively simple lines. You could try to find a color that works with both fabrics to make into pillows for both the sofa and the chairs, or do something for the sofa that incorporates the color of the chairs and something for the chairs that includes the brown of the sofa (or a brown that may be lighter, just keep it the same kind of brown). I’d try to find a pattern that includes both the turquoise and the brown and use the same fabric for both.

    I don’t know what your sewing skills are, but even if they’re basic you should be able to do it. Let me know if you need instructions. I’m heading off to bed soon, but I’ll try to check this thread tomorrow morning in case you want help.

  8. 8.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    @lamh36: Sit on it for a while first! Make sure it’s comfy and fits you, and that it’s easy to sit down on and get up from (a problem with some couches for shorter or :::ahem::: wider people). Doesn’t make a damned bit of difference what it looks like if it doesn’t fit YOU!

  9. 9.

    raven

    April 8, 2017 at 10:12 pm

    Just watched it, good stuff

    Spanish Director Pedro Almodovar has matured into a fine filmmaker through the years. JULIETA is arguably his most “real” film with entirely relatable characters. Maybe part of the charm of JULIETA is the fact that it is based on short stories by Alice Munro.

  10. 10.

    JPL

    April 8, 2017 at 10:18 pm

    @sukabi: This is from CNN

    A US aircraft carrier-led strike group is headed toward the Western Pacific Ocean near the Korean Peninsula, a US defense official confirmed to CNN.
    Adm. Harry Harris, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, directed the USS Carl Vinson strike group to sail north to the Western Pacific after departing Singapore on Saturday, Pacific Command announced.
    The move of the Vinson strike group is in response to recent North Korean provocations, the official said.

    He doesn’t like low poll numbers.. just sayin

  11. 11.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 8, 2017 at 10:18 pm

    @lamh36: It will work. I think a red sofa or a cream sofa would work even better. Are you going to add an area rug?

  12. 12.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:18 pm

    @lamh36: Who had Toshiro Mifune’s part?

  13. 13.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 10:20 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Are you going to add an area rug?

    It would really tie the room together.

  14. 14.

    demz taters

    April 8, 2017 at 10:23 pm

    More Star Anna: https://youtu.be/6fxpU6GGNig

  15. 15.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:25 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    It would really tie the room together.

    So would colored string

  16. 16.

    JPL

    April 8, 2017 at 10:25 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Since you are the expert, what is Trump doing?

  17. 17.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:27 pm

    @JPL:

    what is Trump doing?

    Probably searching for his phone.

  18. 18.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 8, 2017 at 10:29 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: Are you teasing me? An area rug on the beige carpet will really brighten up the room.

  19. 19.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 10:29 pm

    @demz taters: Indie cred overload.

  20. 20.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 10:30 pm

    @Shana: sewing skills…0 to none…I mean I can stitch a small tear, but I cant’ promise it would be an even uniform stitch…lol

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 10:32 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: Reference.

  22. 22.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 10:34 pm

    @efgoldman: I actually already saw the sofa in the showroom…seat tested and everything, but the color in the showroom was red. My sis is looking at the showroom near her home which I think has the sofa in chocolate in the storeroom. So I commandeered her help (as the older sister I have that authority) so she’s going head out take a pic of the chocolate sofa for me there and also check out some accent pillows (her BF works at the local furniture store I like)

  23. 23.

    Mary G

    April 8, 2017 at 10:36 pm

    @lamh36: I love blue and brown together. Pillows are cheap enough that you can change them when you get tired and it will look like a whole new room.

  24. 24.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:37 pm

    @JPL: When the North Koreans hull the Vinson he’s going to like his even lower poll numbers even less. The dirty not so little secret of our carrier fleet is that the carriers themselves have become, thanks to technological innovations, even bigger floating targets than they’ve historically been. No one is dumb or crazy enough to try to engage a Carrier Air Group in air combat, we have unquestioned air superiority/dominance. So everyone has instead poured money into missile technology that are very difficult to defeat.
    http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/america-insists-on-a-13-billion-aircraft-carrier-thats-1793233401
    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-10-22/aircraft-carriers-are-the-navy-s-sitting-ducks
    http://lexingtoninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/aircraft-carrier-invulnerability.pdf

    In other cases, from what we can gather, they’ve developed asymmetrical and/or irregular tactics to use small boat vehicular borne IEDs (VBIEDs) to hull a carrier. (slide 6):
    http://www.iraq-businessnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/mccaffrey-nbc-iran-nukes-and-oil-january-122012.pdf

  25. 25.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:38 pm

    @JPL: Trump played Toshiro Mifun’s scruffy samurai?

  26. 26.

    JPL

    April 8, 2017 at 10:40 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: uhoh..

  27. 27.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:40 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The dirty not so little secret of our carrier fleet is that the carriers themselves have become, thanks to technological innovations, even bigger floating targets than they’ve historically been.

    Surely the admirals and other flag officers know that, too.

  28. 28.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    @schrodingers_cat: someone suggested cream or orange, but I’m not much a fan of light colored furniture, and orange or red, just isn’t in my wheelhouse…too bright for the home mood I like…I may though be persuaded into a light gray/charcoal gray???

    And yes, I would like an area rug and either a coffee table or ottoman set to go in the center of the living room, and a table between the two chairs and the sofa…but I’m NOT set on the tables just yet

  29. 29.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    @efgoldman: One would hope.

  30. 30.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 10:42 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Unfortunately he didn’t make it into the musical…

    Of course ya know I had to google him…right…lol

  31. 31.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:44 pm

    @lamh36:

    I’m not much a fan of light colored furniture,

    If your niece is going to spend any time with you, light color is a very bad choice.

  32. 32.

    Juice Box

    April 8, 2017 at 10:46 pm

    I l@lamh36: I like the blue and brown together. I would be tempted to add some orange pillows or blue/orange or chocolate/orange. I have dogs and do not care for light colored furniture, either….

  33. 33.

    schrodingers_cat

    April 8, 2017 at 10:47 pm

    @lamh36: Charcoal gray would be great, red and cream accent pillows. What about a lighter shade of blue?

  34. 34.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:48 pm

    @lamh36: Remember the clip of the Japanese samurai film from the movie that Kevin Costner is watching? That’s a clip of Mifune from the Kurosawa film Yojimbo. Yojimbo means bouncer, but based on the lead character’s actions in the film, is often rendered in English as bodyguard. And the character is supposed to be loosely based on Musashi.

  35. 35.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 10:49 pm

    @efgoldman: def true…Maddie isn’t much good for light colors either…lol.

    Zoe did come to visit today, after the sister and I came back from the musical. She came inside…looked around the place…checked out the bedroom, got on the bed but I think it was too high for her too…so she wanted down…lol.

    Went back to the living room…surveyed the living room and then she left…lol. Much better than the other apartment, she never liked walking to the back master bedroom…but now the new apt with just a door separating living room from the bedroom, I think she’ll like much better. And yes, she needs dark furniture…

  36. 36.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 10:53 pm

    @Juice Box: ooh…blue/orange chocolate/orange…I think I like those colors…I def plan to play a bit with the pillows this time around. The sofa comes with chocolate accent pillows, that I thought I might use for the chairs…and then a “patterned” throw to replace the sofa pillows…

  37. 37.

    Mike in NC

    April 8, 2017 at 10:54 pm

    I’m old enough to remember the Reagan era and the urgent need to build a 600 ship navy. Not much thought was ever given to the mission, however. It just looked good on paper.

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:56 pm

    @Mike in NC: First question should always be: what’s the strategic objective? Then to what effect? Then is it feasible, acceptable, and suitable?

  39. 39.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 10:56 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Wait one minute Adam Silverman…you actually remember seeing The Bodyguard…that’s it, you are now my FAV front pager…

    If you tell me you also saw Dirty Dancing and didn’t hate it, you DEF become my fav FP of all time…lol

    As for the musical, it change up the “date night” a bit, kept the more “emotional” bits, but the place and date particulars were slightly diff than the musical

  40. 40.

    Gin & Tonic

    April 8, 2017 at 10:57 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I always thought it was “Yo, Jimbo!”

  41. 41.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 10:59 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    It just looked good on paper.

    Mittster tried to sell ot, too.

  42. 42.

    Lizzy L

    April 8, 2017 at 11:00 pm

    I really don’t like to think about what message the NKs will take from the Carl Vinson coming into their strike zone. Here, target this. It’s big… I have to think they will do nothing except make loud threatening noises. I know it’s not unusual for aircraft carriers to enter that region, but I don’t know what to make of the timing, after Syria. I hate being this fucking edgy.

  43. 43.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:01 pm

    @lamh36: I saw it. I’m not a big Kevin Costner fan, but I think I got dragged to the movie when it was released in Scotland, which is where I was living when it came out.

    I also saw Dirty Dancing. I far prefer Patrick Swayze in Roadhouse. I also far prefer Roadhouse.

  44. 44.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:01 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Nope, that’s general how you get the server’s attention at the BBQ place.

  45. 45.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 11:02 pm

    @lamh36: Everyone has seen both of those movies and no one puts Baby in a corner.

  46. 46.

    Brachiator

    April 8, 2017 at 11:10 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The dirty not so little secret of our carrier fleet is that the carriers themselves have become, thanks to technological innovations, even bigger floating targets than they’ve historically been.

    Is this similar to the situation in the World War I years, where technological innovation quickly rendered battle ships and dreadnoughts obsolete as soon as they were built?

  47. 47.

    J R in WV

    April 8, 2017 at 11:12 pm

    @lamh36:

    We’ve been to the resort where much of Dirty Dancing was made. Mountain Lake in VA, old fashioned place.

  48. 48.

    Irony Abounds

    April 8, 2017 at 11:14 pm

    Star Anna sounds great, I’ll have to check out more of her music. I also recommend Amy Macdonald. Her new album is great, and her Scottish accent is to die for.

  49. 49.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 11:15 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: ha…I prefer Patrick Swayze in ANYTHING…RIP Patrick Swayze

    Dirty Dancing is probably, who am I kidding, IS my fav movie. I was like 11 or 12 when I saw it…just the type of movie a pre-teen girl would love…it made a long lasting impression and Swayze was a BIG part of that…lol

    In fact, when Patrick Swayze died, I swear the number of friend and faily who called/text/posted online to see how I was taking it…was embarrassingly funny

  50. 50.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 11:16 pm

    @Brachiator: Or the invention of the the Dreadnought which made everything else obsolete and essentially created the pre-WWI arms race.

  51. 51.

    Brachiator

    April 8, 2017 at 11:16 pm

    @lamh36:

    .If you tell me you also saw Dirty Dancing and didn’t hate it, you DEF become my fav FP of all time…lol

    I just recently heard about the Dirty Dancing remake, to be shown on ABC May 17, I think. Some fans of the original want to put this baby in a corner.

  52. 52.

    lamh36

    April 8, 2017 at 11:20 pm

    I Dirty Dancing love it so much I’m likely even gonna hate watch this ABC remake…which looks so bleh from the pics..

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/entertainment/dirty-dancing-remake/

    ETA: @Brachiator: Jinx…lol. Great minds think alike!

  53. 53.

    Jean

    April 8, 2017 at 11:20 pm

    @J R in WV: I’ve been to Mountain Lake too. It’s quite pretty and I enjoyed hiking around there.

  54. 54.

    RobertDSC-iPad Mini

    April 8, 2017 at 11:28 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And none of the CVN’s escort ships can stop small boats off the DPRK coast? I could see small boat tactics working in the Strait of Hormuz, but not anywhere off the coast of DPRK.

  55. 55.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:35 pm

    @RobertDSC-iPad Mini:

    I could see small boat tactics working in the Strait of Hormuz, but not anywhere off the coast of DPRK.

    It only takes one out of a swarm.

  56. 56.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:35 pm

    @Brachiator: Sort of. What’s happened, as the Foxtrot Alpha article clearly articulates, is that Russia and China have worked hard to develop missile technology to defeat US countermeasures to protect carriers in order to be able to sink one. This makes sense. If you can’t develop parity to counter the weapon system as its designed – to provide a large, mobile platform to project force via the Carrier Air Group, then develop weaponry to take out the platform itself. And this tech, both the legacy missiles that have been updated and refitted, as well as the contemporary generation tech, is intended to be over the horizon. The issue here, of course, is who has this tech been sold too?

    As for the asymmetrical threat: this is the opposite end of the spectrum. Iran doesn’t have the resources, or because of other requirements they feel the need to spend the resources on, they’ve developed an asymmetric and irregular approach to dealing with the US. We know, because it leaked into the news back in 2008, that the Iranian plan if the US rolled across the border from Iraq, was to basically empty out all the urban areas, break the population up, assign them to military elements composed of a combination of special (Republican Guard and the even more elite Quds Force) and conventional military personnel to form guerrilla cadres, which would pull back into the rural, mountainous areas and conduct an irregular and unconventional warfare defense against the invaders. As GEN McCaffrey’s briefing delineates, this irregular and asymmetric approach extends to the Iranian navy’s potential offensive options in the Persian Gulf. McCaffrey is asserting that in a confined Sea Line of Commerce and Communication (SLOCC), it is possible to breach a carrier group’s perimeter and defenses using small boat VBIEDs to attack and possibly sink a carrier. This is the low tech flip side to what the Russians and the Chinese have done.

    All of this feeds to a larger issue: the US military acquisitions process, and the decision making for it, is based on a lot of things. The first are legacy, entrenched interests. Within the military itself, within industry, and within local, state, and national politics. This locks us into the acquisitions equivalent of a bureaucratic Iron Triangle that often has us procuring equipment that really doesn’t fit the contemporary operating environment while at the same time trying to get ahead of the curve on what might/will be needed in the future operating environment.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:37 pm

    @Brachiator: @Omnes Omnibus:

  58. 58.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:40 pm

    @RobertDSC-iPad Mini: That’s a major difference. In the tight confines of Strait of Hormuz and the still confined, but larger Persian Gulf that would work. In the Sea of Japan or Korea Bay it is a different story. The question is whether they’ve either stolen the plans and tried to build one of the PRC anti-carrier missiles as a deterrent or they’ve bought them under the table.

  59. 59.

    efgoldman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:40 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    it is possible to breach a carrier group’s perimeter and defenses using small boat VBIEDs to attack and possibly sink a carrier. This is the low tech flip side to what the Russians and the Chinese have done

    Didn’t the Argentines sink or cripple a major British Navy asset with basic, old (for then) missile technology in the Falklands war?

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:46 pm

    @efgoldman: They sank 6. Five British Naval vessels and once British equivalent of the Merchant Marine. The first was sunk with exocet missiles.
    http://historylists.org/other/list-of-6-british-ships-sunk-during-the-falklands-war.html

  61. 61.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 11:48 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: WTF?

  62. 62.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 8, 2017 at 11:49 pm

    @efgoldman: Delusion is strong with naval types. The classic story of this is the Japanese wargaming of the Battle of Midway in which the Japanese officers playing the Americans sank most of the Japanese aircraft carriers, and the Admirals in charge (not including Yamamoto, who knew better and was out of favor for knowing better) decided that this was “unrealistic”, refloated the carriers, and went on to successfully invade Midway Island.

    Unfortunately, in real life you cannot refloat carriers by fiat.

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:50 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: From Jeff Wayne’s musical version of The War of the Worlds narrated by Sir Richard Burton. Whenever I see dreadnought I think of this bit. BTW whoever he got to sing the female lead parts in the original recordings has one of the sexiest voices I’ve ever heard.

  64. 64.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 11:51 pm

    @efgoldman: The Exocet was not out-dated in 1982

  65. 65.

    Lyrebird

    April 8, 2017 at 11:51 pm

    @lamh36:

    In fact, when Patrick Swayze died, I swear the number of friend and faily who called/text/posted online to see how I was taking it…was embarrassingly funny

    Another reason to love your family, that’s awesome. I was very taken with Dirty Dancing when I saw it as a teenager, but less so seeing it again as a 30-something. But what do I know, my favorite movies run more to “The Incredibles” and “Shrek” (just the first one) and if we’re really gonna talk fairy tales, “My Big Fat Greek Wedding.”

    My turn to be pedantic though- @Omnes Omnibus: I’ve never seen the Bodyguard or Roadhouse.

  66. 66.

    Omnes Omnibus

    April 8, 2017 at 11:54 pm

    @Lyrebird: Weirdo.

  67. 67.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:55 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: It’s not just the Japenese.
    https://warontherocks.com/2015/11/millennium-challenge-the-real-story-of-a-corrupted-military-exercise-and-its-legacy/

    When it was conducted, this exercise was the most ambitious and costly military simulation in American history. It pitted the U.S. military (with capabilities projected five years into the future) against a nameless potential adversary, with outcome intended to inform future strategy and procurement decisions. Controversy immediately arose when the opposition force, or red team, learned that the results were scripted to assure that the U.S. forces would win. Writing in September 2002, New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof warned that it “should teach us one clear lesson relating to Iraq: Hubris kills.” (In that same column, Kristof admitted “I’m a wimp on Iraq: I’m in favor of invading, but only if we can win easily.”) MC ’02 was later popularized in Malcolm Gladwell’s 2005 book, Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking, where the leader of the red team opposition force (OPFOR), retired Marine Corps three-star Paul Van Riper was praised for having “created the conditions for successful spontaneity” with a decision-making style that “enables rapid cognition.” More recently, a Marine Corps Gazette essay proclaimed that “JFCOM controllers changed the scenario” of MC ’02 and that the command “failed to understand the utility of the exercise and the feedback it provided.”

    These perspectives are misleading, and generally told from one person’s view: Van Riper’s. Moreover, they lack important historical context and alternative perspectives about why the shortcomings of MC ’02 were inevitable, given congressionally required demands, misunderstandings of objectives, and unclear (and shifting) lines of authority. Furthermore, a more comprehensive account provides insights for how the military should think about, design, and conduct red team simulations. This article, adapted from my book, Red Team: How to Succeed by Thinking Like the Enemy, provides this more complete account as it is based upon interviews with most of the relevant senior officials, as well as the MC ’02 after-action report, which was only made public in 2010.

    MC ’02 was intended to be the largest, most expensive, and most elaborate concept-development exercise in U.S. military history. The exercise was mandated by Congress to “explore critical war fighting challenges at the operational level of war that will confront United States joint military forces after 2010.” Developed over two years at a cost of $250 million, it would grow to include 13,500 service members participating from 17 simulation locations and nine live-force training sites. It was promoted by Pentagon officials as a demonstration of “leap-ahead technologies,” and was intended to provide commanders with “dominant battle space knowledge” to conduct “rapid decisive operations” against future adversaries.

    These untested war-fighting theories, however, including many aspects of the “revolution in military affairs,” existed only in the PowerPoint presentations and minds of defense intellectuals and senior Pentagon officials. MC ’02 would put them to the test over the course of three weeks in the summer of 2002. It was considered such an important event that then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld himself visited JFCOM headquarters to endorse the exercise:

    MC02, as I’m told it’s called — sounds like fizz water in the old days … will help us create a force that is not only interoperable, responsive, agile and lethal, but one that is capable of capitalizing on the information revolution and the advanced technologies that are available today.

    Much more good stuff at the link Zenko did a real good job with his book on what happened.

  68. 68.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 8, 2017 at 11:58 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: The Sheffield, IIRC, was not heavily armored in the modern fashion and thus fairly easy prey for an Exocet.

  69. 69.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 8, 2017 at 11:59 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Would make sense.

  70. 70.

    Lyrebird

    April 9, 2017 at 12:01 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Weirdo? Fer sher. Logged on quickly, not gonna read through that previous thread about effing popular people.

    I won’t repeat my (weird and nerdy) jokes here about what “normal” means because a) they’re all bad statistics jokes and b) for all I know one of my former students is reading here & could identify me through them…

  71. 71.

    Brachiator

    April 9, 2017 at 12:04 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Lots to digest here. I’m saving this and some earlier comments here to read later.

    The public perception, based on reactions I’ve heard over the past few days, is that no nation has done anything or could do anything to stop the mighty US military. This is sadly unrealistic.

    As an aside, I read somewhere that the new US ship, the Zumwalt? only requires a crew of 150.

  72. 72.

    efgoldman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:06 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    existed only in the PowerPoint presentations and minds of defense intellectuals and senior Pentagon officials.

    Power Point was their first problem.
    More seriously, this is the same mindset that rigged the tests and/or results of anti-missile systems to make sure they appeared to work. isn’t it?

  73. 73.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 9, 2017 at 12:07 am

    @Adam L Silverman: I’ve heard some of the more senior officers are none too happy with the modern PowerPoint staff presentation. Too much glam, not enough guts.

  74. 74.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:11 am

    @Brachiator: The Zumwalt is an interesting lady. The real problem with it is that no one thought to actually do proper budgetary calculations for its most important weapons system. Also, we are only likely to build a handful of them…

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a23738/uss-zumwalt-ammo-too-expensive/

    Just three weeks after commissioning the USS Zumwalt, the U.S. Navy has admitted it is canceling ammunition specially developed for the ship’s high-tech gun systems because the rounds are too expensive. The guns, tailor made for the destroyer, will be unable to fire until the Navy chooses a cheaper replacement round.

    The Zumwalt-class destroyers were conceived in the late 1990s as the first of a new generation of stealthy warships. The radar signature of the 610 foot long warship is that of a 50-foot fishing boat, making the Zumwalts great for getting in close to an enemy coastline and then using the 155-millimeter Advanced Gun Systems mounted on the front of the hull. The guns were designed to fire the advanced Long Range Land Attack Projectile, a GPS guided shell with a range of 60 miles.

    The result would have been a destroyer that could rain shells down on enemy targets incredible accuracy, clearing a path for U.S. Marines as they advance inland. Alternately, they could strike targets such as terrorist training camps, military bases, and other static targets. The two Advanced Gun System howitzers are fed by a magazine containing 600 rounds of ammunition, making it capable destroying hundreds of targets at a rate of up to ten per minute.

    Here’s how the Advanced Gun System was supposed to work.

    Now the U.S. Navy is admitting that the LRLAP round is too expensive to actually purchase, leaving the nearly $4 billion dollar destroyer’s guns high and dry.

    According to Defense News, the LRLAP round costs $800,000—or more—each, making the rounds prohibitively expensive. The Navy blames the rise in cost on the fact that the Zumwalt class went from a planned 32 ships to just 3, drastically cutting the number of LRLAP rounds it was going to purchase.

    A May report by US Naval Institute News estimated each LRLAP round to cost between $400,000 to $700,000. For context, the smaller Mk. 45 5-inch gun, standard on Navy destroyers and cruisers, fires an unguided round with a range of 21 miles. Each round costs between $1,600 and $2,200.

    The LRLAP round was developed by Lockheed Martin. In 2001, the director of Lockheed’s guided projectiles division claimed the LRLAP would cost “less than $50,000 each.” Even factoring in inflation, the rounds have ended up costing nearly twelve times as much.

    According to Defense News, the U.S. Navy is considering alternatives to LRLAP. One is the Excalibur GPS-guided artillery round. First developed for Army howitzers, contractor BAE Systems has come up with a naval version that can hit targets out to 26 miles. Excalibur costs about $68,000 each—which coincidentally is the same as Lockheed Martin’s 2001 estimate for the LRLAP, adjusted for inflation.

    Another option is to get rid of the Advanced Gun System entirely and go with railguns. The Navy has been planning to build the third Zumwalt-class destroyer, USS Lyndon B. Johnson, with railguns—provided the technology was mature enough. It may just be worthwhile to send the first ship back to the shipyard to be refitted with railguns, and delay the second ship so it can be fitted with railguns from the get-go.

    A third option would be to get rid of the guns and devote their space to missiles. The Zumwalt-class was developed during a period when the U.S. Navy didn’t face the prospect of fighting other navies on the high seas. In a search to remain relevant, the Navy developed the Advanced Gun System, which has zero capability to target other ships. In the nearly two decades since the Zumwalt class was proposed, the Chinese and Russian Navies have undergone a period of expansion, and their respective governments have grown more aggressive.

    The Zumwalt-class destroyers have only 80 vertical launch missile silos, the least of any U.S. Navy destroyer or cruiser class. Under the missiles-only alternative, the Zumwalts could swap both guns for even more silos. These silos could house SM-6 long range anti-air missiles, Evolved Sea Sparrow short range anti-air missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles, and the new Long Range Anti-Ship Missile. Replacing the AGS with a field of silos could give the Zumwalts up to 200 missile spaces, more than any other ship in the Western world.

    According to USNI News, the U.S. Navy wouldn’t talk about LRLAP costs as late as last May. The Navy has known it wasn’t getting 32 Zumwalt-class destroyers since 2008—the better part of a decade. Why it has taken this long to announce it would not be buying ammunition for a $22.5 billion dollar weapon system—which was specifically developed to use that ammunition—is a mystery.

  75. 75.

    Lyrebird

    April 9, 2017 at 12:12 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: Thanks, fwiw that one is more powerful for me than what Mistermix highlighted.

    Shannon McNally might be too folky for some but I love her voice.

    Peace all

  76. 76.

    Yarrow

    April 9, 2017 at 12:13 am

    @Adam L Silverman: So we’re going to be bombing Syria and get into some kind of mess with North Korea? That sounds smart.

  77. 77.

    RobertDSC-Mac Mini

    April 9, 2017 at 12:14 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I can imagine a cruise missile strike, yes. This goes back to your point about not knowing enough about the internal goings-on of the DPRK.

    But a small boat attack isn’t something I can imagine. Yankee Station was 100 miles off the coast of Vietnam. I can’t see a carrier group closer than that to the DPRK.

  78. 78.

    efgoldman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:15 am

    @Brachiator:

    The public perception, based on reactions I’ve heard over the past few days, is that no nation has done anything or could do anything to stop the mighty US military.

    As a whole, no.
    Given who’s “in charge”, and all the levels of absent planners, strategizers, and logistics organizers, I expect any major operation now would make 2003-05 in Iraq look like one of the greatest successes of all time.
    Bombing an empty airfield for show may lead eventually to getting a lot of people killed for nothing.
    Again.

  79. 79.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:15 am

    @efgoldman: @Villago Delenda Est: When used properly, as in a couple of bullet points per slide to hang the actual briefing on, with maybe a picture or a chart or a graphic, it is a useful tool. When everything possible is crammed onto the slide in itty bitty 6 point font, not so much.

    The larger problem is that the US military constantly tells itself it is a learning organization. It isn’t. I have far more experience in dealing with the Army, but I can tell you without any doubt that the Conventional Army is not a learning organization. Honestly, I’m not even sure what a learning organization is.

  80. 80.

    efgoldman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:23 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m not even sure what a learning organization is.

    The average grade school?

  81. 81.

    Brachiator

    April 9, 2017 at 12:25 am

    @Adam L Silverman: I had to laugh as soon as I got to this part.

    ..Here’s how the Advanced Gun System was supposed to work.

    Railguns are depicted in the SF series “The Expanse.” Interesting extrapolation of current/new tech to science fiction.

    ETA The Zumwalt woes could be called “The Expense.”

  82. 82.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:28 am

    @Yarrow: There was a singular report from a news service I’d never seen before linked to by The Jester that there had been an attack at the Dara Crossing on the Jordanian border with Syria earlier today and that Jordanian armor and US SOF had responded. I’ve seen no other reports or confirmation.

    What we’re going to see is a lot of testing and probing, which we’ve already seen. The DPRK has already issued a statement indicating that the (futile) attack in Syria on Thursday night proves them right to have developed a nuclear deterrent. Everyone else will now follow suit. The Russians are trolling the President over the attack. They put a surveillance drone over the airfield shortly after the attack to show there was almost no significant damage. And what was damaged was confined to the perimeter.
    https://twitter.com/i/videos/tweet/850433158659047425

    And more footage from Friday of Syrian SU 22s taking off without problem from the air base:

    More footage, including one filmed from drone, of #Syria AF Su-22s taking off from Sharyat AB in #Homs Province, #Syria. #SyriaStrikes pic.twitter.com/xS216hotxo

    — Aldin ?? (@CT_operative) April 8, 2017

    The only thing worse than doing nothing is doing something pointless and ineffective. And that’s what the President chose so as to not upset the Russians. The Russians and Syrians today doubled down in their attacks on Idlib and Latamenah using incendiary ordnance.

    S. #Idlib: another incendiary raid by day on Maaret Tajermah/Hurmah (13 km from Khan Sheikhoun), via @HadiAlabdallah https://t.co/u1QFdAlUTe pic.twitter.com/uGUx96pEgt

    — Qalaat Al Mudiq (@QalaatAlMudiq) April 8, 2017

    Apparently Russian airstrike on Latamneh, Hama, with incendiary weapons this afternoon https://t.co/OAJEeqhIFe pic.twitter.com/c1UxqYdDWt

    — Elizabeth Tsurkov (@Elizrael) April 8, 2017

    We have deterred nothing. We have impressed no one. We have no strategy. I’m not even sure we have tactics at this point. We have a dead Soldier in Afghanistan KIA today. We have 91 other countries relying on us as part of a Coalition in Iraq and Syria and a good chunk of NATO in Afghanistan. And I cannot, in any way, shape, or form coherently explain what the US is doing. Or why.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:30 am

    @RobertDSC-Mac Mini: I would be very surprised by one in the Sea of Japan or Bay of Korea.

  84. 84.

    Steve in the ATL

    April 9, 2017 at 12:33 am

    @efgoldman:

    It only takes one

    Who knew that a meaningless saying from little league baseball could be meaningful in national security matters?

  85. 85.

    amk

    April 9, 2017 at 12:34 am

    Nut in west. Nut in east. World in between.

  86. 86.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:34 am

    @Brachiator: @efgoldman: In a conventional interstate war? The US has superiority across the board. In the type of warfare that we have seen since 2001 and will see for the foreseeable future? US SOF has superiority. US Conventional Forces have mixed results. And we never have enough SOF including the hard core snake eaters. And after the past 16 years no one in the right mind is going to try to fight the US in a conventional interstate war. The smart strategist would only attempt asymmetric and irregular warfare against the US. That’s what makes the Iranian Quds Force so dangerous: they have the best strategist from any country in the Middle East as their commander.
    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/30/the-shadow-commander

    And I highly recommend you read that article when you have the time.

  87. 87.

    Gravenstone

    April 9, 2017 at 12:36 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: I have seen neither of those movies, and have no compelling interest in ever doing so. Some universal statements are anything but.

  88. 88.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:36 am

    @Brachiator: Complete breakdown of the acquisitions process. Absolutely unacceptable.

  89. 89.

    Calouste

    April 9, 2017 at 12:39 am

    @Adam L Silverman: That singer is Julie Covington, who also did the original of Don’t cry for me Argentina. And I agree with your assessment of her voice.

  90. 90.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 9, 2017 at 12:39 am

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s pretty much the way I learned to do it when I was on 9ID (MTZ) staff back in the years of and following the High Tech Test Bed period. You still had to have solid staff work for the briefing, and I always as G1 Plans made the caveat that my available references dated from WWII (for casualty estimates), not anything from the contemporary era of the 80’s, which would have been far more lethal, and even moreso today. I imagine that they’ve updated the FMs and so forth with data from the first and second Gulf Wars, you’d know better than I on that count.

  91. 91.

    TriassicSands

    April 9, 2017 at 12:40 am

    @efgoldman:

    Bombing an empty airfield for show may lead eventually to getting a lot of people killed for nothing.

    Well, not exactly “for nothing.” Killing lots of people will enhance the Trump brand, which will increase his profits and since that is the main reason for his being where he is (that and revenge on those who ridiculed him at the Correspondents’ Dinner) you could say that killing a lot of people is in the service of the highest calling of this president.

    Sane people agree it’s for nothing. But sane people are not running the show.

  92. 92.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:42 am

    @Calouste: Yep. I just listened to The Spirit of Man. Absolutely amazing voice.

  93. 93.

    Adam L Silverman

    April 9, 2017 at 12:44 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: Field Manuals are now called Army Doctrinal Publications. Or Army Doctrinal Reference Publications. So we’ve updated some stuff. The CAC Commander that ordered the nomenclature change is one of my least favorite general officers.

  94. 94.

    Villago Delenda Est

    April 9, 2017 at 12:45 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Incendiaries are so much more humane than chemical weapons. Truly we have advanced the cause of the little babies who are far too dangerous to be allowed in this country as refugees.

  95. 95.

    Miss Bianca

    April 9, 2017 at 1:10 am

    @Adam L Silverman: dude, are you just being difficult, or wasd Toshiro Mifune actually in that movie? Cause if so, I, uh…will have to view it stat. (And if not, World’s Most Gullible Person sez, ‘Curse you, Red Baron!’)

  96. 96.

    Miss Bianca

    April 9, 2017 at 1:15 am

    @Omnes Omnibus: true fact – I was in a band full of Lebowski freaks called Nice Marmot. And our motto was , by God, “they really tie the room together.” Still got the t-shirt.

  97. 97.

    Origuy

    April 9, 2017 at 2:29 am

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I also far prefer Roadhouse.

    I can’t think about Roadhouse now without thinking about Ron White’s classic routine, I Got Thrown Out of a Bar in New York City.

  98. 98.

    Ramalama

    April 9, 2017 at 5:32 am

    @raven: I watched twice in a row Almodovar’s film “Talk to Her” – just couldn’t leave the movie theatre. “All About My Mother” was moving and strange and complete, as well.

  99. 99.

    Ramalama

    April 9, 2017 at 5:34 am

    Also – this Star Anna song is incredible. I am in that ‘high curmudgeon’ phase of my life where seeking out new music takes effort. And in the past, I put in great amounts of effort. Thanks for the video.

  100. 100.

    Shana

    April 9, 2017 at 3:39 pm

    @lamh36: Oh well…

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

On The Road - beckya57 - Copper Canyon, Mexico, April 2025 6
Image by beckya57 (6/19/25)

Recent Comments

  • Jackie on Simon Rosenberg Sees Emerging Opportunity, and I Make Some Lists (Jun 19, 2025 @ 2:49pm)
  • cmorenc on AM in NC – NO KINGS – Durham, NC (with the Durham images this time!) (Jun 19, 2025 @ 2:46pm)
  • Geminid on Simon Rosenberg Sees Emerging Opportunity, and I Make Some Lists (Jun 19, 2025 @ 2:46pm)
  • WTFGhost on Thursday Morning Open Thread: Juneteenth (Jun 19, 2025 @ 2:42pm)
  • Another Scott on Simon Rosenberg Sees Emerging Opportunity, and I Make Some Lists (Jun 19, 2025 @ 2:40pm)

Personality Crisis Podcast (Cole, DougJ, mistermix)

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
No Kings Protests June 14 2025

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)
Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Social Media

Balloon Juice
WaterGirl
TaMara
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
DougJ NYT Pitchbot
mistermix

Keeping Track

Legal Challenges (Lawfare)
Republicans Fleeing Town Halls (TPM)
21 Letters (to Borrow or Steal)
Search Donations from a Brand

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2025 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!