Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Trump’s legal defense is going to be a dumpster fire inside a clown car on a derailing train.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

I was confident that someone would point it out and thought why not me.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

The jury literally has a bell they can ring to force Trump to show up on command. Greatest thing ever!

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

Cole is on a roll !

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Please don’t feed the bears.

I desperately hope that, yet again, I am wrong.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.

Consistently wrong since 2002

The words do not have to be perfect.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

I might just take the rest of the day off and do even more nothing than usual.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Once Again, My Excessive Optimism Is Deflated

Wednesday Evening Open Thread: Once Again, My Excessive Optimism Is Deflated

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Since the world hadn’t blown up after a whole 72 hours, I assumed the Mar-a-Lago China summit was just another pointless Trumpstunt. Should’ve known, by now, that all statements about Trump’s actions should be ended with the caveat “… yet.”

Today, in the Wall Street Journal:

President Donald Trump said Wednesday he has offered Chinese President Xi Jinping a more favorable trade deal for Beijing in exchange for his help on confronting the threat of North Korea.

Mr. Trump, in a wide-ranging interview with The Wall Street Journal, said he would accept, for instance, a trade deal with China that does less to address trade deficits…

Mr. Trump also said his administration won’t label China a currency manipulator in a report due this week, despite promises he made on the campaign trail. Mr. Trump said China has stopped manipulating its currency and that it was more important to focus on cooperation with China on North Korea…

Earlier in the day, China described the call somewhat differently and didn’t link trade and North Korea as issues. The foreign ministry said Mr. Xi noted that both sides had numerous mechanisms in place for high-level dialogue and mentioned the two sides’ agreement on a “100-day action plan” on trade, which previous official Chinese accounts had ignored…

Mr. Trump described his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin as nonexistent, but said he developed a warm rapport with Mr. Xi after their first meeting last week at his estate in south Florida.

He said they hit it off during their first discussion. Mr. Trump said he told his Chinese counterpart he believed Beijing could easily take care of the North Korea threat. Mr. Xi then explained the history of China and Korea, Mr. Trump said.

“After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted. “I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power” over North Korea,” he said. “But it’s not what you would think.”

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said that at the Mar-a-Lago summit, both presidents had agreed to keep in closer touch through phone calls and meetings.

Mr. Chu said he didn’t believe the U.S. would take military action against North Korea, noting that Pyongyang could retaliate with lethal force against U.S. ally South Korea.

So Mr. Chu assumes — or is willing to say on the record — that the U.S. military doesn’t necessarily take its orders from that ranty dude in the Oval Office. At least not without a cooling-off period, length to be determined. Because, after all, Ranty Dude is a senile idiot, easily distracted by any shiny object or vagrant idea!

Apart from [headdesk]-ing, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

187Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    I learned today that my WaMo RSS feed lists Martin Longman (Booman) as the author of articles written by others. I mistakenly attributed someone else’s views to Booman this morning. Mea culpa.

  3. 3.

    TenguPhule

    I notice that Trump only develops warm rapport with fascists, dictators and general scum of the Earth.

  5. 5.

    Montysano

    So… basically, Trump’s entire knowledge of the North Korean situation comes from a 10 minute conversation with Xi?

    Awesome…

  8. 8.

    debbie

    My guess is that China controls North Korea as adeptly as Kellyanne controls Trump’s tweeting.

  10. 10.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Finally got around to watching the cake moment with Maria Bartiromo– I think if you just showed Bartiromo’s side of the tape to someone who didn’t know her, she’d look like an overeager entertainment reporter.

    Kenneth P. Vogel‏Verified account kenvogel 9h9 hours ago
    Trump remembers details of cake he was eating while launching missiles, but not which country he was attacking.

  12. 12.

    tobie

    @TenguPhule: Did anyone ever really think he was going to do anything against China once in the Oval Office. That’s so yesterday’s news, campaign bluster to energize the disaffected rubes who love to hate China for stealing jobs because it’s easier to hate non-white Mexican or Chinese workers than to hate automation. DT’s bottom line is always and only what’s in it for him. China saw that early on. Remember they called him a “paper tiger” during the transition period. That have him, and as a consequence us, eating out of their hands.

  13. 13.

    Cermet

    Frankly, I am glad the orange fart cloud has a good relationship now with the Chinese leader; china is, apparently, putting the screws to North Korea but not surprising they are not linking that to the chump in chief’s meeting with their leader. They have threaten the Korean leader were it will most hurt and I believe they will get results. This may turn out to be a good deal for all of us; China knows how to handle the orange fart and that should help keep that area of the world more stable.

  16. 16.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    also, too

    North Carolina Republican state representative said in a Facebook post that former President Abraham Lincoln was a “tyrant” as bad as German dictator Adolf Hitler.
    Pittman’s response: “And if Hitler had won, should the world just get over it? Lincoln was the same sort (of) tyrant, and personally responsible for the deaths of over 800,000 Americans in a war that was unnecessary and unconstitutional.”
    Pittman is the pastor of Ridgecrest Presbyterian Church in Stanly County and has served in the House since 2013.
    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article144216324.html#storylink=cpy

  17. 17.

    germy

    Chris Wallace: Sergei Lavrov ‘Dominated’ Rex Tillerson In Presser

    Host of Fox News Sunday, Chris Wallace told host Melissa Frances after viewing Tillerson’s press conference from Russia, that Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov was “noticeably more aggressive and, frankly, dominated the news conference.”

    “Tillerson giving brief and not nearly as aggressive answers as Lavrov did. He didn’t seem to want to come looking for a fight. Lavrov was very comfortable looking for a fight and taking the argument very much to the U.S.”

    http://crooksandliars.com/2017/04/chris-wallace-sergei-lavrov-dominated

  18. 18.

    Princess

    The stuff they have on Trump and Russia must be really, really hot because he is diving head first into the establishment part of the GOP in an effort to convince them to save him. He has reversed himself on just about every position in which he differed from them.

  19. 19.

    TenguPhule

    @Cermet:

    They have threaten the Korean leader were it will most hurt and I believe they will get results. This may turn out to be a good deal for all of us; China knows how to handle the orange fart and that should help keep that area of the world more stable

    Perhaps this sounded better in the original Russian.

  23. 23.

    debbie

    @Cermet:

    Frankly, I am glad the orange fart cloud has a good relationship now with the Chinese leader

    Don’t be fooled. That’s what China wants us to think. Trump’s ego won’t let him see he’s being played.

  28. 28.

    Roger Moore

    “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted.

    A pity he wasn’t willing to spend 10 minutes listening to the experts in his own government so he didn’t act like an asshole during a critical international negotiation.

  31. 31.

    amk

    By my count in past week Trump has reversed on Syria, Ex-Im bank, NATO, Russia, China, tax plan. Am I missing anything?— Max Boot (@MaxBoot) April 12, 2017

    well oiled machine gets a new turn of phrase.

  33. 33.

    A Ghost to Most

    letter from the CLC to the FEC’s Complaints Examination and Legal Administration office said that the super PAC Make America Number 1 — run by Republican mega-donor Robert Mercer — “illegally compensated Steve Bannon’s work as Donald Trump’s campaign CEO, and that the super PAC and campaign engaged in unlawful coordinated spending by using the common vendor Cambridge Analytica.” The letter is a follow-up to a complaint lodged by the CLC in October.

    “The evidence suggests that the Mercer-backed super PAC secretly subsidized Bannon’s work for the Trump campaign by payments to ‘Glittering Steel,’ which we now know has been chaired and is owned by Bannon and which paid him a monthly consulting fee,” said Brendan Fischer — the director of the federal and FEC reform program at the CLC

    CLC is Campaign Legal Center.

    rawstory

  35. 35.

    Cermet

    @TenguPhule: Yeah, we “russians” have such a vested interest in china and amerika getting along well…happen to bother reading much about world politics? The last thing putin wants is friendly relations between china and amerika. This meeting was the worse out come for them. As for whether the chinese threats against the North Korea leader works, is an open matter but the chinese do not make false threats and the Korean leader knows that. We will see but I’m betting on the chinese getting what they want and an escaltion between the US and north korea isn’t something they want.

  36. 36.

    Brachiator

    Apart from [headdesk]-ing, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

    Two wonderfully satisfying films, “Hidden Figures” and “The Lion” are available for streaming, rental, or purchase through various venues. Those who avoided the movie theaters for whatever reason, don’t have any further excuse. Check ‘m out. Guarantee that it will relieve you or any Trump anxiety, at least for a while.

    I’m learning that hipsters and others are watching Korean tv dramas. One that is actually fun is “Queen of Mystery,” which re-imagines Sherlock Holmes as the meek but intellectually formidable wife of a South Korean prosecutor, who has a tremendous talent for sleuthing. She is helping the young head of a local police substation solve minor crimes when she gets involved in a case involving organized crime and the drug trade. This brings her into contact with Detective Ha Wan Seung (Watson), a super hot hunk, who has been demoted and shipped to the backwater substation for political reasons.

    Oh yeah, this is a comedy drama, with our Lady Sherlock trying to protect her secret sleuthing activities from her live-in shrew of a mother-in-law, who thinks her daughter is having an affair. Read more about the show here.

    The first two episodes, with English subtitles are available on line. Not sure about the others, but they may be available on some cable stations. The first episodes are a hoot, with constipation jokes, but also set up the characters well, and provide an enjoyable introduction to this wacky incarnation of Sherlock Holmes. Where available, show episodes are shown on Wednesday nights.

  38. 38.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is a standard statement among hard core folks who identify as Southern-American. It is a long held belief among neo-Confederates that Lincoln was a genocidal madman. There have been attempts to either remove where extant or block where proposed memorials to Lincoln throughout the southern US. Unfortunately there is a cottage industry in exporting this stuff, which is why you get folks in Iowa who will say the same thing, and support Congressman King, despite Iowa’s playing a large role in supplying troops to the Union Army and suffering significant casualties and KIAs as a result.

  39. 39.

    Corner Stone

    Oooooo, please please please let Trump ditch Bannon in an unceremonious manner. Pretty please?

  40. 40.

    Cermet

    @Corner Stone: I’ve study chinese and amerikan relations for a long time; not sure what I’m saying that is so repetitive but china played the orange fart. Not having a trade war with china is a rather good thing, no? Korea laying off detonating more nukes is a good thing, no? Looks like these two things did come out of that meeting. I think people should pay attention to that. China can handle the orange fart and smooth relations between us and them serves both nations. Also, china doesn’t have thousands of nukes pointed at us, the russians do. China has 24 ICBMs (land based.) Not exactly a grave threat compared to thousands that the russians have, no?

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Roger Moore: He pulled the same thing with the NATO SecGen today who pointedly explained to him what has been going on since the US invoked Article 5 right after 9-11.

  43. 43.

    Corner Stone

    @Cermet: Not that part, this part:

    china is, apparently, putting the screws to North Korea but not surprising they are not linking that to the chump in chief’s meeting with their leader. They have threaten the Korean leader were it will most hurt and I believe they will get results.

    Why do you keep saying this?

  45. 45.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: As I’ve written repeatedly: the Union won the war. The Confederacy won the peace. This was a terrible outcome.

  48. 48.

    Millard Filmore

    @Baud:

    Maybe we need to start a pro-Union movement.

    Start with calling our Civil War “The Slaver’s Rebellion”. Quash the Northern Aggression nonsense.

  50. 50.

    Brachiator

    “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted.

    Didn’t this asswipe say the say thing about health care reform, before he insisted that Congress should support the putrid Ryan plan?

    Mr. Trump described his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin as nonexistent, but said he developed a warm rapport with Mr. Xi after their first meeting last week at his estate in south Florida.

    Another similar Trump dance move. Next he will be claiming that he never even heard of Putin. Doesn’t even know what the guy looks like.

    Jeez. As Bugs Bunny might say, “what a maroon!”

  51. 51.

    Roger Moore

    @Adam L Silverman:
    It really seems that he doesn’t trust anyone in the government foreign policy establishment, with the possible exception of a few of the generals. He literally trusts stuff he gets from other governments, even ones we’ve traditionally been on less than friendly terms with, more than what he gets from State, CIA, etc. Hell, he trusts InfoWars more than he trusts State.

  52. 52.

    robert thompson

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s the Neo-Confederate ethos that this nation would have been better off perpetually held in 1850. It is the racism, thinly disguised, that holds them. That is why you see Confederate Battle Flag decals on pickup trucks in New hampshire. Which you probably already know. And New Hampshire contributed a grim toll as well. “Confederates In The Attic” and 5th New Hampshire Volunteers. Some things never change.

  56. 56.

    gene108

    @Montysano:

    So… basically, Trump’s entire knowledge of the North Korean situation comes from a 10 minute conversation with Xi?

    I am just impressed Trump was able to learn something new about the world. People keep saying he isn’t willing to learn new things, but – see – it is not true.

    He learned about China and Korea.

    Trump deserves a gold star sticker for his hard work here. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

  57. 57.

    TenguPhule

    @Cermet:

    The last thing putin wants is friendly relations between china and amerika. This meeting was the worse out come for them. As for whether the chinese threats against the North Korea leader works, is an open matter but the chinese do not make false threats and the Korean leader knows that.

    Forgive me, I should have said, how does that sound in the original Mandarin?

  58. 58.

    TenguPhule

    @Cermet:

    Also, china doesn’t have thousands of nukes pointed at us, the russians do. China has 24 ICBMs (land based.)

    Ah, a CCC member has decided to join us. How’s the weather in Beijing?

  61. 61.

    amk

    another asshole

    The sculptor that erected Wall Street’s Charging Bull statue is complaining about New York City’s decision to allow a nearby statue to remain in place.

    Italian-born sculptor Arturo Di Modica says the Fearless Girl statue, which was placed nearby during International Women’s Day, is a copyright violation.

    His lawyers argue that the new sculpture’s presence changes the artistic meaning of his famous statue.

    Mr Di Modica’s statute was installed in 1987, without any city permits.

    /

    Mayor de Blasio responded on Twitter on Wednesday, writing: “Men who don’t like women taking up space are exactly why we need the Fearless Girl.”

  62. 62.

    Cain

    FYWP, wouldn’t let me edit my comment – I wanted to say:

    Lu Kang?! Let Mortal Kombat begin!

  65. 65.

    dmsilev

    @amk: A copyright violation? WTF? It’s not like the new statue is a copy of the old one in any way.

  67. 67.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Roger Moore: What he trusts is what he sees on Fox and the printouts he’s given to read from select conservative websites. Hence the comment in some of the reporting today about foreign officials that have had to deal with him being frustrated because he seems to come into every engagement cold – no notes, no agenda, just start the conversation.

  69. 69.

    TenguPhule

    @dmsilev: Apparently the new statue “presents a new optic” because the two statues can be seen together. Yeah, the Bull artist is a real entitled dickhead.

  71. 71.

    amk

    @Baud: he wants the lil mean girl statue to be removed since it portrays him in ‘negative light’. typical butthurt of white men.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @robert thompson: Without a doubt. The one thing that the Confederacy deliberately did not include in their constitution from the US constitution was a clause about “providing for the general welfare”. They didn’t believe in the general welfare then and their ideological descendants don’t now.

  74. 74.

    PJ

    Here’s a new article in the NYT summing up Manafort’s activities since stepping down from Trump’s campaign: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/us/politics/paul-manafort-donald-trump.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=65150396&pgtype=article

    The only thing that I hadn’t heard before is that he created a shell company to get loans from Trump-affiliated businesses the day he stepped down. The loans he’s received are far in excess of the value of the properties mortgaged. I know the house in Brooklyn has been vacant since he bought it several years ago. It’s unclear whether some or all of these properties were purchased for money-laundering purposes and/or he’s taken out the excessive loans to cover other bad investments he’s made and/or the loans are a way for third parties to pay Manafort for his services (to be conveniently forgiven at some later date). Here’s another link that provides more background on the deals: http://www.377union.com/

  78. 78.

    NotMax

    What’s being published in China:

    The meeting was “quite positive,” Douglas Paal, vice president for studies and director of Asia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, told Xinhua.
    [snip]
    To Professor David Lampton, director of China Studies at the Johns Hopkins University’s School of Advanced International Studies, the Xi-Trump meeting “went pretty well.”

    “This meeting seems to have gone better than most people would have forecasted here – in the United States,” Lampton told Xinhua.
    [snip]
    Paal noted that the establishment of the four-pronged high-level dialogue mechanism was “a repackaging” of the previously-known annual Strategic and Economic Dialogue (S&ED) held under the Obama administration. Source

    After all, although Beijing has been persistent in pursuing mutually beneficial ties through win-win cooperation, and made that intention very clear, what it has seen and heard from Washington lately have been rather inconsistent, at times contradictory. Most upsetting of all were the confusing signals about what Washington is really after when it comes to its relations with Beijing, especially in matters that the latter holds as its core interests, such as Taiwan and the South China Sea. Source

    And chartsof some interest.

  81. 81.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: That was the official name for it when it started. You’ll find it in the early references, as well as in Caton’s Centennial History of the Civil War.

  85. 85.

    Brachiator

    @Miss Bianca:

    ooh, this sounds like fun! I wonder how soon (if ever) the series might be available on DVD?

    You should definitely check out the available episodes that are online now.

    Watch for free here.

    I’ll probably look to see if this series is ever released on DVD with English dubbing or subtitles.

  87. 87.

    NotMax

    Adam, if you’re around (and feeling better), a little something for the Maskirovka folder.

    …it looks like Manafort’s life just got more complicated because the Associated Press obtained some banking records that verify that something is true that Manafort has long denied.

  89. 89.

    Baud

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks. Interesting that he didn’t call it that.

    ETA: That name of that author apparently triggers the spam filter. I’ve had multiple comments disappear.

  90. 90.

    gene108

    @Adam L Silverman:

    he seems to come into every engagement cold – no notes, no agenda, just start the conversation.

    Seems like what a lazy salesman would do. Come in with no real preparation, start talking and shmoozing, and hope to impress the would-be customer by taking them out to a fancy restaurant or club and maybe the would-be customer will impressed, “OMG! You are so rich and connected! Where do I sign up?” and the deal is closed.

    I think that’s his only frame of reference on how to get any kind of business done and at 70, he’s not going to change.

    Also, too a lot of business owners aren’t in business for a deep understanding of any subject. They only know enough about anything to make the sale and cash your check. These aren’t the sort of intellectuals capable of formulating complex policy.

  96. 96.

    Baud

    @lamh36:

    This is important.

    Sources tell the Post that there were no visible signs of trauma or physical injuries suggesting foul play.

    Although how did she end up in the river then?

  97. 97.

    ? Martin

    Trump said he believed that withholding the payments for insurers would bring Democrats to the table on negotiations.

    “I don’t want people to get hurt,” Mr. Trump said. “What I think should happen—and will happen—is the Democrats will start calling me and negotiating.”

    “[Senate Minority Leader] Schumer should be calling me up and begging me to help him save Obamacare,” Trump told the Wall Street Journal. “He should be calling me and begging me to help him save Obamacare, along with [House Minority Leader] Nancy Pelosi.”

    Jesus, what a fucking idiot. Schumer and Pelosi will play the long game. Let Trump destroy the exchanges (and be on record as deliberately blowing up the exchanges in order to win politically), watch the electorate blow up at the GOP, take the House and possibly Senate in 2018, and the whole lot in 2020 and then they can pass whatever the fuck they want.

  99. 99.

    TenguPhule

    @Baud: And how would they be able to tell there was no visible foul play after she’d been in the river for awhile?

  101. 101.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: Actually this isn’t a metastization, rather it was a deliberate infection. One that has been repeatedly done. From the Dunning School of historiography straight through to the League of the South to specific southern evangelical communities promulgating the inaccurate history right along with their proselytizing as they moved out of the southern US into other regions of the country. Remember, the Great Rebellion was, perhaps, the first Protestant Crusade for lack of a better term.

  103. 103.

    ? Martin

    @Baud: Of course, because when you have no expectation of Republicans doing anything productive, you can only blame the Democrats for not doing their job (of doing everything).

  104. 104.

    NotMax

    Who’d ever have guessed?

    (raises hand)

    Just days before the state visit of Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to Mar-a-Lago, President Donald Trump’s Palm Beach private club, Florida restaurant inspectors found potentially dangerous raw fish and cited the club for storing food in two broken down coolers.

    Inspectors found 13 violations at the fancy club’s kitchen, according to recently published reports — a record for an institution that charges $200,000 in initiation fees.

    Three of the violations were deemed “high priority,” meaning that they could allow the presence of illness-causing bacteria on plates served in the dining room.
    [snip]
    Mar-a-Lago General Manager Bernd Lembcke did not return calls for comment. Source

  105. 105.

    lamh36

    @Baud: Right…I saw that. The family reported her as missing…and the question becomes how did she end up in the river?

    I mean she just fell over a rail? Fell out of the sky? Fell off a boat?

  106. 106.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: Still feel bleh (which may be reflected in my spelling…). Thanks for the link, I saw this earlier today, as well as the now registering under FARA. There are at least four additional breaks today. From Joy Ann Reid claiming a source indicating a second, separate FISA warrant for a different Trump associate to more Carter Page nonsense to something about Cohen being involved in money laundering. It is still all just circumstantial, but it just never stops…

  108. 108.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: Caton’s is the most fact filled history of the Great Rebellion I’ve ever read. It is hard reading, factually dense. But I highly recommend the effort. All five books worth of the effort.

  112. 112.

    Roger Moore

    @NotMax:
    And I thought trump was a germophobe*. You’d expect him to insist on a sanitary kitchen above all else.

    *Which is probably why he likes his steak well done.

  114. 114.

    Ruviana

    @Baud: Hey! Thanks. I saw that when I went to read stuff on WaMo and figured there were enough things to push back on Martin Longman that he didn’t need that too. He can be grim though I like his takes most of the time.

  115. 115.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: With a floating body with no visible signs of trauma, the initial investigation will focus on suicide, with the backup being a homicide. Right now the NYPD forensic folks are reviewing the tidal charts and cross referencing with the time of death window to determine where she went into the water. Once they have that location they’ll work the CCTV security and traffic cameras throughout the area to 1) identify her, 2) identify her movements, and 3) try to identify at what point she disappears from the cameras. Then they’ll try to pull private surveillance feeds from stores, other commercial sites and buildings, and/or residences to see if they can account for whatever missing time may exist from her ceasing to be visible on the official system and the estimated time she went into the water. They are also waiting on toxicology to come back to see if she was drugged, sedated, and/or poisoned, which would make it much easier to transport her to where she went in the water. And they’ll be doing a full autopsy to determine if there was something organic – stroke, heart attack, aneurysm, seizure, etc – that might have led her to becoming incapacitated near where she went into the water and then going into the water. This includes determining if she drowned or was already dead when she went in. If the latter, you’re likely looking at foul play.

  116. 116.

    Lizzy L

    Trump got played. The Chinese government (in all of its many incarnations) has had thousands of years to practice the art and science of diplomacy and facing someone like 45 they are not going to break a sweat.

    The news about the judge in NY is just damned awful.

  118. 118.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @debbie:

    Don’t be fooled. That’s what China wants us to think. Trump’s ego won’t let him see he’s being played.

    That’s his point, the Chines know how to manage the Toddler in Chief so it lowers the risk nuclear by hissyful. It may not be the best for the nation, but it beats everyone dying.

  122. 122.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: Of course. This is going to either be natural cause and her collapse put her into the river where she drowned or foul play. And it is going to become apparent pretty quickly. Given that she was a judge and her background, they will be working this very, very hard.

  123. 123.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Roger Moore:

    And I thought trump was a germophobe*. You’d expect him to insist on a sanitary kitchen above all else.

    It pains me to write or say anything that reflects even the least bit well on Trump, but according to the article there were only one or two infractions when he was more hands-on. Once he started running for President the number of violations jumped sharply.

    I think he should resign his office and go to work as a kitchen manager someplace. Everyone would be happier.

  125. 125.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: I don’t, I just used to teach research design and methodology for police investigations and intelligence, at the undergraduate and graduate level, at a university in the metro NY area.

  128. 128.

    Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire

    @robert thompson: I’ve seen Confederate flags hanging in the back of pick up trucks in New York. Those pick up trucks? Owned by Puerto Ricans.

    Some idiots will bandwagon any damn thing.

  133. 133.

    MCA1

    “Mr. Xi then explained the history of China and Korea, Mr. Trump said.”

    Jaysus. Fecking. Key riced. What an embarrassment. I actually am not sure which is worse – that the POTUS is so goddamned ignorant he had to be schooled on the basics of the China/N. Korea relationship and Sino/Korean peninsula politics and history in general, by the f’ing leader of China, or that he’s so stupid he tells a reporter about the incident without any realization of how mentally handicapped it makes him look.

  135. 135.

    Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire

    Man, that poor judge. I hope they find out how she ended up in the river.

    And Charlie Murphy, together with Dave Chapelle, created some of the funniest comedy sketches in history. “Game, blouses!” will forever be funny.

  136. 136.

    Mnemosyne

    @Baud:

    Unfortunately, suicide is always a possibility. How many times have we heard but s/he seemed so happy! from friends and family members of someone they didn’t realize was suicidal?

  137. 137.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TenguPhule: Considering if it wasn’t for the location the bull otherwise looks looks like some cheesy 70s kitch and he dumped on the square it sounds like this “artist” is a poser of the first order.

    Who wants to make a bet Mr Di Modica’s isn’t even the sculpter for the bull?

  139. 139.

    debbie

    @Baud:

    Back when I thought about majoring in history , I read a number of contemporary accounts (like Ida Tarbell) as well as Carl Sandberg’s multi-volume Lincoln bio, and that’s how they referred to it.

  140. 140.

    TenguPhule

    @Mnemosyne: Suicide by jumping into the river would have resulted in physical trauma. And its not how older Americans kill themselves. Especially women.

    Smells like murder.

  141. 141.

    Adam L Silverman

    @humboldtblue: Took me three or four attempts to get through it. Once I finally got to book three I basically had to finish otherwise I would have felt like it had beaten me. If you bail in book one or two, the feeling is a bit different.

  143. 143.

    Steve in the ATL

    Remember how excited I was to hear from the Jon Ossoff campaign as I’d never been contacted by any D candidate before? Yeah, I’m tired of it now. Today alone: two calls to cell phone, a text, and four pieces of mail. Relax, guys–I’m a yellow dog Democrat and I always vote.

  144. 144.

    lamh36

    Hmmm…this article saying that “her death appeared to be a suicide”…IDK…

    Judge washes up dead along the Hudson River http://nyp.st/2opJ6fZ via @nypmetro

    ETA: I see Adam et al…already mentioned this as possibility…like Adam said…I hope they can get to the bottom of this one quickly

  145. 145.

    mai naem mobile

    I know I sound like a food snob but is chocolate cake for dessert a high end restaurant thing nowadays? Isn’t chocolate cake more of a Lubys Cafeteria/Dennys kind of thing? Isn’t the thing now fru fru sorbet,mousse and tortes?

  146. 146.

    Anonymous At Work

    Who has the rights to Trump’s brain? Have Dunning and Kruger secured the right to study it after his death and/or leaving office?

  149. 149.

    Corner Stone

    @mai naem mobile: Good God. If you go to Luby’s and get dessert but don’t choose the icebox pie then I don’t even want to make out passionately with you in the pantry anymore during games of playing I Never with our High School friends.

  153. 153.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I would give a lot for your problems. Several weeks ago I volunteered to do poll watching for Ossoff/Dems. GA Dems contacted me eventually, said “Great, you’ll be hearing from us.” They eventually phoned me and said they weren’t sure they had the right email address. I confirmed that email addy does indeed involve a weird Gaelic-looking “Siubhan Duinne!” and the woman who phoned wanted to know how to pronounce it and what it meant. Then they sent me an email thanking me for signing up as a poll watcher and saying they’d be in touch soon to let me know when the training was, how I could pick up my credentials, and what my poll-watching assignment(s) would be. Then they sent me another email apologizing for not getting back to me on training dates, credential pick-up, and assignments. Then they sent me another email giving training dates but saying that I didn’t have to take it unless I wanted to, since I have poll-watched previously, and sorry but they still don’t know where or when I can get my credentials and where my assignments are, but they’ll get that out real soon.

    I am kind of pissed. And yes, I’ll do whatever it takes to acquired my credentials and go to whatever polling site(s) need watching on Tuesday. But they shouldn’t be jerking us around like this.

    (To be clear, my annoyance is with the Democratic Party of Georgia, NOT with the Ossoff campaign.)

  154. 154.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    It’s not an uncommon way to commit suicide, unfortunately. It’s not as common for older women, but “not as common” doesn’t mean it never happens. We’ll all have to wait for the coroner’s report.

  155. 155.

    Mnemosyne

    @TenguPhule:

    It’s not as common a method of suicide, but that doesn’t mean it never happens. We’ll have to wait for the autopsy.

  158. 158.

    danielx

    Today’s News Of Which I Was Unaware….

    Did you know that Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republican caucus had nothing to do with killing the filibuster? No, really! It seems that all along, unbeknownst to me and presumably to other sentient vertebrates, the filibuster has been truly and sincerely dead because of – wait for it – David Souter. I know this because Ross Douthat* has told me, so it must be so.

    David Souter Killed the Filibuster….

    …because David Souter was a treacherous traitor to the true conservative cause…or something, it’s hard to make out from observing the patterns in this bucket of swill. Except that Souter was responsible for Gorsuch ending up where he is, because reasons.

    *I’ve always hesitated to use the appellation Douchehat to describe this particular scribe, but who the cap fit…let him wear it. Fucking twit.

  159. 159.

    mai naem mobile

    @Adam L Silverman: I looked the menu up. It was chocolate cake with vanilla sauce and chocolate sorbet. The other option was a sorbet trio. To be honest, I think that’s a pretty plain dessert for the equivalent of a state dinner. I know ,I know this is not important and petty. This is what almost 100 days of Dolt 45 does to you.

  161. 161.

    D58826

    well I guess you can add foreign pol;icy to the ‘it’s complicated’ list. Obviously there hads been 0 prep/briefing prior to the meeting.

    He said they hit it off during their first discussion. Mr. Trump said he told his Chinese counterpart he believed Beijing could easily take care of the North Korea threat. Mr. Xi then explained the history of China and Korea, Mr. Trump said.

    “After listening for 10 minutes, I realized it’s not so easy,” Mr. Trump recounted. “I felt pretty strongly that they had a tremendous power” over North Korea,” he said. “But it’s not what you would think.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-says-he-offered-china-better-trade-terms-in-exchange-for-help-on-north-korea-1492027556 …

  162. 162.

    Adam L Silverman

    @EBT: Yes. I checked with Cheryl Rofer. She thinks something may be planned, but isn’t sure it is what The Jester thinks it is.

  164. 164.

    Adam L Silverman

    @mai naem mobile: He has very pedestrian tastes. My guess is that despite being a family of some wealth, his parents who had lived through the depression, were pretty tight fisted with spending. So they ate very cheaply – as in inexpensively. This would partially explain the preference for his meat cooked well done. It is possible that if his parents were trying to control costs that they bought their meat close to its expiration. This was common with poorer families, whether white or people of color, and still is. As a result the meat is cooked to well done to ensure it is safe to eat.

  165. 165.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @mai naem mobile: I know I sound like a food snob but is chocolate cake for dessert a high end restaurant thing nowadays?

    I love chocolate cake. And I would like to track down whatever asshole decided it could never again be served with out some gross raspberry (or strawberry) syrup and gouge out his eyes with a spork

    Or, since I have pretty much given up desserts, he should live and be well.

  166. 166.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: Jeff Ross, the comedian who has taken over the roasting gig and has some kind of past show biz relationship with the Rough Beast, said on the Marc Maron podcast that he saw trumpy at one of his properties in December, and they chatted. Ross said he found the flabby dimwitted ape to the same as he’s always been, and mentioned, “he was dipping his cheeseburger in mayonnaise”

  169. 169.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: At 70, given he’s clearly stressed and feeling overwhelmed, I would fully expect him to turn to the comfort foods and the preparations of said foods he’s enjoyed since he was a child. Much of his worldview seems to be locked into a period between his childhood and his early 20s, so why should this be any different. If the stakes weren’t so high, this would just be epically, tragically said.

  171. 171.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It is possible that if his parents were trying to control costs that they bought their meat close to its expiration. This was common with poorer families, whether white or people of color, and still is.

    I grew up in that kind of household. We used to make fun of the “grey meat,” usually pot roast or something similar. Cooked to within an inch of its life.

    I was well into my twenties before I first experienced anything close to rare (“How do I want it cooked? Just surprise the cow.”). But once experienced, there’s no going back.

  172. 172.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I would fully expect him to turn to the comfort foods and the preparations of said foods he’s enjoyed since he was a child.

    Mac’n’cheese, and a nice tapioca for dessert.

    (For the record, those are both things I enjoy very much, on occasion. But then, I’ve never served them to dinner guests, nor am I the leader of the free world.)

  174. 174.

    J R in WV

    @Cermet:

    Actually, the more fissionable/fusionable material the N Koreans use up in testing, the better. That is material that can’t be used in actual deployable weapons.

  175. 175.

    Quinerly

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Thanks. Will probably catch it in the AM. I’m fighting this horrendous sinus infection and finally went to the Dr for antibiotics. I’m fading fast and hear my bed calling out my name.

  176. 176.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: I had a good friend from undergrad who was a housemate one year in grad school. He’s African American, though if I’m recalling correctly his dad is originally from Tobago. He would only eat meat cooked well done. That’s where I first learned about this as an adult. I was vaguely aware as a kid because my grandfather, who was orphaned with his two brothers and one sister before the depression, and survived the depression and had been in the cattle and meat packing business, would only eat his steak cooked well done.

  178. 178.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’ve asked Cheryl Rofer, and she has agreed, to do a guest post on this for us. Look for it within/in about an hour.

    That’s great! Thank you, Adam. IIRC, Cheryl joined us for a more-or-less real time thread a few months ago (I think it was before the election). Glad she’s coming back.

  179. 179.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m only 46, but when I don’t feel well there are a few standbys that I prefer. Often they actually make me feel physically worse, but they are what I crave.

  180. 180.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @SiubhanDuinne: my father, born in 1929 and whose mother was funny and charming but not a great cook, likes all his meat well done. But I have never seen him consume ketchup.

  181. 181.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Mnemosyne: In this case I think it most likely they’re going to do a 6th test, and as large a one as they can manage, at their testing facility in NE DPRK. They can’t get a medium range missile to fire successfully so I think you’re pretty safe for the time being.

  182. 182.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It would be an interesting sociological survey (I’m sure someone has already done this) to explore what kinds of food preferences have direct links to childhood experiences, including parental impositions from their childhoods, and secondarily to explore to what extent the subjects made changes in their eating/food prep habits. I have a friend in Watertown, MA who is working on an advanced degree in the sociology of food; I’ll ask her what the literature says.

  184. 184.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Maybeso back when the Southeron slavers were naming it. Slaver’s Rebellion sounds good to me, shorter than Treason in Defense of Slavery, which is good too, just longer. Despicable sadomasochistic monsters…

    I’m sure my Virginian ancestors were on the wrong side, my paternal grandmother’s family. Others weren’t here by the 1860s, Paternal grandfather’s parents arrived from Switzerland about 1890. All the others were here in time. My mother’s father was Pennsylvania Dutch, so his folks were certainly on the right side.

    My maternal grandma was from a Kentucky riverboat town, so no telling for sure which side those ancestors were on, perhaps both!

    But I know which side I am on !!

  185. 185.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: People don’t often think about the socio-cultural significance of food. What is eaten, how it’s prepared, when it is eaten, how it is eaten, with whom it is eaten.

  186. 186.

    Adam L Silverman

    Cheryl’s guest post is up! And Cheryl has indicated she’ll hang around in comments for about an hour to answer whatever questions you all might have.

  187. 187.

    lumpkin

    Prolly this discussion has ended and nobody will answer my question, but WTF’ing trade deal is this idiot talking about? Do we have a trade deal in the works with China? Not that I’ve heard of.
    The Chinese delegation must have laughed themselves nearly to death on the way home from the US.

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