Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

The revolution will be supervised.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

“woke” is the new caravan.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Dolt 45 / Open Thread: On Mars, I Agree with Bill Maher

Open Thread: On Mars, I Agree with Bill Maher

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Sure, I want humanity to become “a multi-planet species” — but that won’t happen while we’re treating the one we’ve already got as disposable, something to be used up and discarded.

Hell, just getting to Mars is gonna involve a level of “reduce, reuse, recycle” that we’ve barely contemplated. Let’s practice here, where if/when things go wrong — as they did during Steve Bannon’s Biosphere II experiment — the messy aftermath can be measured in lawsuits, not deaths.

Reader Interactions

129Comments

  1. 1.

    danielx

    Would it be crass to say that I wish Donald Trump to be on Mars by his second term, as a place from which there is no extradition?

  7. 7.

    lamh36

    Sarah Lerner‏ @SarahLerner

    Male journalists’ creepy obsession with Chelsea Clinton confirms to me that they’ve learned absolutely fucking nothing from 2016.

  8. 8.

    Major Major Major Major

    Sure, I want humanity to become “a multi-planet species” — but that won’t happen while we’re treating the one we’ve already got as disposable, something to be used up and discarded.

    Hell, just getting to Mars is gonna involve a level of “reduce, reuse, recycle” that we’ve barely contemplated. Let’s practice here…

    It’s pithy, but… If we wait to start exploring and working out the logistics until we’ve realized the dreams of our hippie overlords here on earth, then we’re gonna be completely unprepared to bug out when things go to total shit, since we’ll never start exploring.

  12. 12.

    Redshift

    Seriously? I found it to be another one of his insufferable rants where he’s either completely ignorant of our deliberately misrepresenting what his targets believe so he can be smug and superior and paint them as idiots.

    Whether you find Elon Musk’s Mars plans plausible or not, his motivation for become a multi-planet species is that an asteroid could wipe us out as easily as the dinosaurs, not to trash Earth and leave it behind. I don’t find this round of “we shouldn’t be spending money to go into space when we have so many problems to solve here” any more convincing than the last twenty times.

  17. 17.

    jl

    I remember an old movie where Ahhhnold had Mars on lockdown. Trump should call Arnold have him take care of it.
    OK, good then, that is off the ‘to-do’ list. You are welcome, Mr. Trump.

  22. 22.

    Mnemosyne

    @lamh36:

    It’s freaky that they spend so much time and energy on what they think Chelsea might do while steadfastly ignoring what Ivanka’s actually doing.

    People who claimed they were worried that electing Hillary Clinton would start a “Clinton dynasty” are ignoring the fact that Trump’s kids are deeply involved in policy. IOKIYAR, indeed.

  25. 25.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: Dave Weigel‏Verified account @ daveweigel 5h5 hours ago
    One day Liz Cheney will move from the House to the Senate and Twitter will engage in a heated debate about how bad Chelsea Clinton is.

  30. 30.

    NotMax

    Soy vey.

    The Chinese Communist Party is facing derision after it called for members to refer to each other as “comrade”.

    The term had been common in the country under Mao’s leadership, but has grown unpopular as the country has modernised.

    Communist leaders’ calls for the term to become commonplace once more have fallen flat, as the term has come to mean something quite different.
    [snip]
    Ever since the LGBT community in Mainland China adopted the expression, the bulk of people in the country have started to avoid it. Source

    Meanwhile, back in the U,S.,

    President Donald Trump this week will order a review of national monument designations — including southern Utah’s Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante — as part of a wide look at a century-old law that allows presidents to set aside federal lands without congressional approval.

    On Wednesday, Trump will sign an executive order to demand that the Interior Department secretary examine all national monument designations in the past 21 years to discern whether their size and scope are within the law’s intent, a move that tracks clearly with concerns of members of Utah’s federal delegation about the use of the unilateral presidential power in designating monuments.
    [snip]
    While no president has attempted to withdraw a monument named by a predecessor, there have been those who have scaled back those designations. Source

    Might Obama’s designation of the Stonewall Inn end up being a test case (cough Pence cough)?

    Reminder of Secretary of the Interior Zinke’s own words to the Senate committee which passed through his nomination:

    “I am an unapologetic admirer of Teddy Roosevelt. I fully recognize and appreciate there are lands that deserve special recognition and are better managed under the John Muir model of wilderness, where man has a light touch and is an observer.”

    Zinke needs to bone up on Gifford Pinchot:

    “Where conflicting interests must be reconciled, the question shall always be answered from the standpoint of the greatest good of the greatest number in the long run.”

  33. 33.

    efgoldman

    Trump wants to get the US on Mars by his second term.

    Sure, as long as he leads the expedition.
    And if the rocket turns the wrong way and goes into the sun? Well, who knew astronauting is so risky and complicated.

  35. 35.

    moops

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I agree with Bill and Anne. It is fine to investigate Mars as a possible home in a long long long future, but it would be better if scientists leveled with humanity: Humans are not going to colonize Mars for at least 300 years. It could take 1000 years for Mars to be improved enough and Earth has been ruined enough that it would be a viable alternative habitat. There is no point in rushing astronauts to Mars. If it takes human astronauts walking on Mars to make the science interesting enough to the general population then that is a failure of science writers and humanity’s capacity for long-term imagining and enjoying the marvels of the basic science.

    To put things in perspective: Under the ocean is 50 times more hospitable to humans than Mars. Antarctica is 100 times more hospitable to human life than Mars. We have the technology now, in our actual hands, that would let us colonize these places AND do it a minimal ecological impact. For those places humans have already spoken. But scientists are willing to engage in this fantasy with the population.

  36. 36.

    efgoldman

    @Mnemosyne:

    Trump’s kids are deeply involved in policy. IOKIYAR, indeed.

    You should probably put quotation marks around “involved in policy.” There have to be actual policies before they could be involved in them. Not that they’d have any better “ideas” than Deadbeat Daddy Dearest, but they’d express their ignorance more coherently.

  37. 37.

    cokane

    it’d be almost impossible for humans to live on Mars, so I don’t think anyone should be worried about colonizing it per se. Even if you could overcome the temperature and atmosphere issues, which would have a tremendous cost, there is literally no currently known way of overcoming its lack of gravity.

    While research on this isn’t very thorough, it’s generally thought that a human body spending long enough on Mars will eventually deteriorate, causing all kinds of health problems. You could conceivably have people live temporarily on Mars and be shipped back and forth, but that would also expose them to huge doses of radiation during every voyage, so also not a long term solution.

    Frankly, it’s more likely that humans colonize Venus, as absurd as that may sound, before they ever colonize Mars.

  38. 38.

    CaseyL

    @lamh36: It’s a teaser; the actual trailer is to be released tomorrow. So this is a teaser for a trailer; and, you know, I’m looking forward to the movie, but this whole marketing striptease is completely out of hand.

    Regarding Mars: I really hate it when someone I loathe enough that I would celebrate their defenestration from a tall building decides to advocate something I want to see happen.

    We really do need a space program that puts humans into space, for all kinds of reasons not limited to establishing off-world colonies.

    But 45 advocating for it is like an instant de-legitimization of the idea. He would do it badly, turn it into a grift, and probably get a lot of people killed by incompetence, indifference, and corruption. I’d rather leave it to Elon Musk’s crew, who at least seem to know what they’re doing.

  40. 40.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @NotMax: Teddy Roosevelt would be kicked to the curb by 21st Century GOP. They’re all rapists and plunderers of the planet.

  41. 41.

    Mnemosyne

    @CaseyL:

    But 45 advocating for it is like an instant de-legitimization of the idea. He would do it badly, turn it into a grift, and probably get a lot of people killed by incompetence, indifference, and corruption.

    This. The only thing worse than Trump making this stupid announcement would be him actually trying to follow through.

  43. 43.

    NotMax

    @Major Major Major Major

    Keep forgetting to mention that if you have Netflix (and haven’t already seen it), the 5-part BBC mini-series a href=”https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Spy”>London Spy might pique your interest.

    Was previously unfamiliar with the lead actor, Ben Whishaw – the man may be slight of frame but demonstrates the acting chops of a colossus. He and Jim Broadbent play off one another impressively.

  44. 44.

    sanjeevs

    @Adam L Silverman: Hi Adam, did you read the details of the Andrea Tantaros lawsuit.
    Installed malware on her personal laptop and phone, spied on her, deleted her messages, used sockpuppets to post harassing personal data on her social media accounts etc.
    Lots of parallels between the Fox campaign against Tantaros and the Trump campaign against Clinton.

  48. 48.

    Adam L Silverman

    @sanjeevs: I had not seen that. I will take a look. Does not surprise me in the least. Given who Ailes is connected with, it would not surprise me that eventually as this stuff is litigated and discovery is done, we’ll find Bo Deitl and, perhaps, Rudy Giuliani involved on the surveillance ends.

  49. 49.

    dogwood

    @NotMax:
    Thanks for the recommendation. I’m looking for something to watch and I think you gave me a good suggestion a year or so ago.

  51. 51.

    CaseyL

    @NotMax: I saw that! It was excellent, though the McGuffin required a rather large suspension of disbelief. Superbly acted. Ben Whishaw is becoming one of my faves – he’s the new M in the Bond movies, and I also saw him play the title role in Richard II on PBS or BBC.

    @lamh36: Really? Apologies, and I’ll try again.

  52. 52.

    Another Scott

    Meh.

    Donnie doesn’t understand anything, so of course he thinks all he has to do is say, “We’re going to Mars by 2020!!1 I mean 2024!!11 Believe Me!!1” and it will happen.

    Let’s see, tomorrow he’s going to try to wrassle the Senate into giving him a Gulf of Tonkin resolution so that he can attack the DPRK whenever he thinks he needs a bump in his ratings. Next week, he’ll probably try to ask for a similar one for Iran. That’s assuming the US government is open, which it probably won’t be (unless he caves on his demand for Wall funding).

    It’s all so stupid.

    Nothing is going to change about funding for the Wall or NASA or his bazillion ship Navy or anything else unless he can get an agreement with the Democrats to change the Sequester rules. He’s too stupid and brain damaged to know that, and refuses to learn anything, so all of his bluster about what he’s going to spend bigly money on is beautiful projects is just talk.

    Sure, he can try to gut departments, and move some money around. But he can’t get the kind of new money needed for his boondoggles (and rushing people to Mars now (within the next 4-8 years) would be a boondoggle – NASA hasn’t come close to even picking a suitable landing site, etc., etc., etc..)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  53. 53.

    moops

    I will give this one to you all for free: Earth, after having been struck by an EXTINCTION-LEVEL METEORITE, is still several orders of magnitude more hospitable than Mars. Yes.

    So, if you think we need to colonize Mars to protect humanity from the next impact, you have made a poor investment. Your effort would be better spent actually raising the awareness of the danger and planning for the actual event you are worried about. One option is colonies on Antarctica and under the oceans. That’s actually the much better bet. As a bonus, we would actually learn more about Earth if people were actually trying to do this. We still have a magnetic field after an impact. And an atmosphere. And even with the worst of the worst atmospheric destruction of the last impacts, there is still abundant oxygen that can be liberated from materials deposited on the Earth surface, there is still LOTS of H2O for us, and the worst post-impact weather is still WAY better than Mars.

    Mars is like, so many impact events that Earth can’t even keep it’s atmosphere or oceans and it stops our molten dynamo and we are bathed in radiation. The kind of event that would brutalize Earth so totally to make Mars a good safe-haven is hard to even imagine. Apocalyptic enough to destroy Earth, but not also murder the New Earthers on Mars. We actually have no example of such an impact in Earth’s geological records. So, call it 3 billion years of reliable impact records.

  55. 55.

    sanjeevs

    @Adam L Silverman: Tantaros is alledging Fox had a ‘Black room’ where they had permanent employees who surveilled other journalists etc. So it seems they had this capability in-house. Hopefully there is discovery so we see if the hacking was in fact outsourced

  58. 58.

    Adam L Silverman

    @sanjeevs: That also doesn’t surprise me in the least. If I’m remembering correctly Ailes had Bo Deitl do some surveillance on Gabe Sherman when Sherman was working on his unauthorized biography of Ailes.

  60. 60.

    efgoldman

    @Another Scott:

    Sure, he can try to gut departments, and move some money around. But he can’t get the kind of new money needed for his boondoggles

    As always, he’s just talking to hear himself talk. He doesn’t even pay attention to (or remember) what he’s saying.

    Nothing is going to change about funding for the Wall or NASA or his bazillion ship Navy or anything else

    This is correct.
    Granny Starver and his buddies don’t want the social security. medicare, vendor payments, military pay and retirement benefits, etc to stop on their watch. No one to lay the blame off. I predict he will get a CR passed, probably with Nancy SMASH’s halp. It will include some meaningless language that the kkkrazy kkkaukus will accept (that’s where Nancy helps) and also some meaningless language about intent to fund the wall. The senate will pass it without a recorded vote (no fingerprints!) and Coral Canker will either sign it or let it become law without his signature. Then he will either claim “another great win” or he’ll say he was forced to do it.

  63. 63.

    Ruckus

    @cokane:
    We could send cancer patients if there is large scale radiation along the way. Sort of an expensive cure though.

  64. 64.

    dogwood

    @Another Scott:
    He just says this distracting crap and everyone falls for it. They’ll talk about stuff like this on the Cable channels instead of focusing on the Russian stuff which is a threat to our democracy right now. I’m waiting for the marches demanding full investigations and disclosure of Trump’s and other Republican’s business and political collusion with Russia. The House and Senate Intelligence Committees aren’t going to do a damn thing unless they get some grassroots pressure on a big scale. Time to demand an thorough Independent investigation. The fake news and the hacking can’t be normalized if we have any hope of reclaiming a decent government.

  67. 67.

    ArchTeryx

    I’ll just be happy if he doesn’t start a nuclear war during that all-Senate briefing he’s got scheduled for his 100 days. I keep getting images of Greg Stillson from The Dead Zone..

    “The missiles are flying, gentlemen. Hallelujah.”

  68. 68.

    JustRuss

    @moops: Well said. Also, any ocean-dwelling civilization would be in a position to render at least some aid to any surface dwellers who survived the cataclysm. Whereas ships from Mars would take months to arrive and couldn’t carry enough cargo to do much of anything.

    As far as exploring goes, for the cost of a manned flight you could send a bazillion drones and gather far more data.

  72. 72.

    LurkerNoLonger

    Trump wants to go to Mars because he’s heard there are hookers with three boobs there.

  73. 73.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @lamh36:

    Firth made that movie, but Jackson was sure a fun and compelling villain. They are so talented.

  74. 74.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Teddy Roosevelt would be kicked to the curb by 21st Century GOP.

    I’d like to see them try it. I’d bet on Teddy to whup the entire Republican congress, both houses, with one hand tied behind his back. Seeing him punch McConnell’s face back into his shell would be a golden experience.

  75. 75.

    prob50

    Travel to Mars within the next decade? God, that’s a stupid thing for anyone over the age of 11 to seriously suggest. Even if we could get a breathing human there in one piece and somehow provide sufficient basic survival nutrition and some sort of practical structure to I’m at a loss to see anything to accomplish or learn that would be useful to the multiple billions of humans currently dealing with present-day earth. I really don’t think there would be a whole lot to report back here beyond “Geez, this really is a crappy place to try and survive in, but anyways I’d like to thank all the U.S. citizens who are presently unable to get adequate healthcare because we spent all that money (and quite a bit more, actually) just to send me to a miserable hell-hole so that Donald Trump can claim some sort of actual accomplishment.”

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: I don’t know. None of the personnel and material movement necessary for the US to even begin operations against the DPRK seems to have begun. So I have no idea what they’re going to be briefed on. I’ve seen some reporting that both Senators and senior Senate staff are likewise confused.

    But the real problem is we have few, if any, good options for dealing with the DPRK from a military standpoint. As far as I’m aware, every DPRK site, to include the artillery north of the DMZ pointed at Seoul, are all in hardened sites. No matter what the Air Force general staff may argue (and they always argue it and it is the only thing they ever argue and it never ever works as well as they claim), the DPRK cannot be dealt with though Air Power alone. I’m not even sure it can be significantly softened up with what is popularly called a “shock and awe” air campaign. All the military and government sites are hardened. There’s almost no critical infrastructure to take out. Sea Power is useless here as well for the same reason. Parking surface war ships and submarines off the coast and pounding targets is going to face the same problem as an air campaign. That leaves Landpower. We don’t have the tooth for it given our commitments elsewhere – there just aren’t enough combat arms folks. I’m not even sure a SF focused campaign would have much tactical success. And even if we had a decent Landpower focused theater strategy we would be trying to fight and conduct the world’s largest and most complicated humanitarian assistance response at the same time. And we definitely don’t have the personnel for that – there are NEVER enough Civil Affairs folks to go around. And, on top of that, to the best that anyone has been able to determine, trying to provide humanitarian aid to North Koreans is unlikely to get much traction as they’ve been acculturated, socialized, and indoctrinated to believe the US is absolutely evil and all Americans want to kill every last North Korean. So trying to provide food and medical care is going to create huge problems as we’d be operating among and within a tremendously impoverished population that thinks that we’re trying to poison them.

    It is also important to remember that the DPRK gets a say here. Kim and his generals will open up their artillery against South Korea at the first inkling they’re being attacked and flood DPRK Special Forces across the DMZ at the same time. Trying to evacuate Seoul is going to be like trying to evacuate the metro NY City area ahead of a major hurricane. It ain’t going to happen.

    And this is all aside from the question of what the PRC is going to do? They are treaty bound to defend the DPRK. Do they just take a pass? Do they actually partner with us? If the latter, what the hell does that do to the alignment of partners, allies, and interests within the Asian-Pacific Area of Responsibility and the region?

    And what, if anything will Russia do? We already know that Russia is funding the Taliban and that Little Green Men are in Afghanistan with the Taliban. I can’t imagine Putin wouldn’t try to make more mischief for us.

  78. 78.

    dogwood

    @Yarrow:
    He thinks bringing all the Senators to the WH will get him good press, and it will because they are suckers for this kind of shit. Nothing of substance will come from it, but that’s par for the course for this administration and the press that keep taking him seriously.

  84. 84.

    sanjeevs

    @Mnemosyne: That thought occurred to me. Why risk doing something illegal in the US when you can do it pretty much legally in Russia as long as you have plausible deniabilty. And the software found on Tantaros computer was not known malware.

  85. 85.

    Frank Wilhoit

    This is one of the more puzzling kinds of things that Trump does occasionally: things that just do not resonate with his people at all. Trump’s people, pretty much each to the last, believe the moon landings were hoaxes. They don’t want to hear about Mars.

  86. 86.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: I honestly have no idea. I mean it is entirely possible they’re going to be told the President wants to drop a MOP on the nuclear testing site. The problem is that if you do that, then you can kiss Seoul goodbye. And the people that live there.

    As I’ve written repeatedly: I’m not a DPRK specialist and very few are. I have no idea who the Asia Director at the NSC is right now. I have no idea what the Intel is like. And I have no idea what the courses of action that may have been worked up are. All I know is that Air Power isn’t going to work here. That none of the things we’d expect to see in terms of prep and mobilization seem to be happening. And that there are really no good options.

  88. 88.

    seaboogie

    I’ll never know whether or not I agree with anything Bill Maher says, because he has such a supernatural level of creepitude and salf-satisfied smarminess in his delivery that I find him entirely unwatchable – like the libertarian side of a BillO coin. Can’t do it. Already had my bath and cleaned the tub.

  90. 90.

    Another Scott

    @Major Major Major Major: Going to Mars is orders of magnitude more difficult than going to the Moon. They really aren’t easily comparable.

    Planetary.org:

    On Earth, once you make it through the atmosphere, you’re pretty safe. Air drag will slow you down enough for a relatively soft landing under parachute or thrusters.

    But Mars’s atmosphere is too thin to finish the job. When NASA’s Curiosity rover deployed its parachute in 2012, it was still hurtling toward the surface at a blistering Mach 2. The Apollo 11 capsule, by comparison, was traveling at a leisurely Mach 0.3 when its parachute deployment sequence started.

    Curiosity, bundled up inside its protective descent shell, had a mass of 3.3 metric tons. Human landings on Mars could easily tip the scales at more than 20 metric tons; the EDL system required for such a mission will have to be much more powerful. In 2014 and 2015, NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory conducted two inflatable heat shield tests. The results were promising, but revealed a different problem: A parachute double the size of Curiosity’s shredded apart both times.

    Radiation is a much bigger problem with a Mars trip than a Moon trip (where the Earth’s magnetic field offers some protection even at the Moon) because of the much longer exposure.

    I’m a huge fan of basic and applied research, but let’s not kid ourselves that a Mars trip is just a bit more difficult than a trip to the Moon. It’s not. It will take a huge investment, and we could likely better spend that money on robotic probes and on understanding how to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere here than spending it on sending a few of our fellow bags of meat there and back.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  91. 91.

    efgoldman

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I have no idea who the Asia Director at the NSC is right now.

    And the Asia/Pacific/Korea desks at both State and DoD are just getting dustier and dustier. I wonder if they even turn the lights on in the offices.

  93. 93.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Another Scott: I meant as regards

    I’m at a loss to see anything to accomplish or learn that would be useful to the multiple billions of humans currently dealing with present-day earth. I really don’t think there would be a whole lot to report back here beyond “Geez, this really is a crappy place to try and survive in.”

    I don’t recall Obama saying we should go to mars getting this kind of pushback around here. I get that it’s Trump saying it, but that’s a reason to shit on the fact that it’s Trump, or that it’s pointless self aggrandizement, or the timeline is stupid etc etc, not to shit on manned space exploration.

  95. 95.

    NotMax

    @efgoldman

    Bingo.

    The “breakfast feud” theme ran for several years; kids eventually overwhelmingly sent in votes in favor of Quisp and Quaker Oats ceased production of Quake.

    The Quake character, which had already been remodeled, was then brought back to shill for Quangaroos, which also received the bulk of no votes and also was removed from the shelves.

  97. 97.

    prob50

    @Major Major Major Major:

    same can be said about going to the moon, but that turned out to be a huge boon for space exploration funding.

    Maybe, but the challenges to a Mars program would be quite a bit more substantial than the moon. I’m mostly OK with reasonably thought out space exploration plans and I understand the importance of having goals, but I’m not seeing a pressing practical or even scientific concern that would justify the type of resources required to fund a manned Mars space program, especially one that would be operating under some artificially conceived rushed timeline.

  98. 98.

    Adam L Silverman

    @efgoldman: Those should be run by career DOD Civilians and Foreign Service Officers. So I’m not too worried about that side of things.

  101. 101.

    efgoldman

    @prob50:

    I’m not seeing a pressing practical or even scientific concern that would justify the type of resources required to fund a manned Mars space program, especially one that would be operating under some artificially conceived rushed timeline.

    As I said above, as he always does he’s talking to hear himself talk. He has no plans. Tomorrow he will forget and/or deny he ever said it; :::bloop::: down the memory hole it goes.

  103. 103.

    efgoldman

    @NotMax:

    Forbidden Planet.

    I saw that when it was new, in the theater. Of course I didn’t get the jokes (I was 11-ish). I begged my parents for a Robbie the Robot, but never got it.
    A life-sized Robbie (with an unnamed actor inside) was a regular “guest” on variety shows of the time, including Ed Sullivan and Garry Moore.

  105. 105.

    Major Major Major Major

    @efgoldman: you must be about my dad’s age. I think he was a little older though. He made me watch it when I was 14 or so, it was pretty good, watched it again in my mid 20s and thought it was great, saw it last year in the theatre finally for the anniversary and thought it was fantastic.

    @efgoldman: at home yes.

  106. 106.

    Bess

    @dogwood:

    The House and Senate Intelligence Committees aren’t going to do a damn thing unless they get some grassroots pressure on a big scale. Time to demand an thorough Independent investigation.

    Agree. It feels like the Republicans are trying to slow walk the investigation until people forget. We need to find a way to turn up the heat.

  107. 107.

    NotMax

    @NobodySpecial

    Atmospheric pressure at the surface 92 times that of Earth, temperatures as high as 900 degrees F. Not hospitable for us by any stretch of the imagination.

  109. 109.

    efgoldman

    @Bess:

    We need to find a way to turn up the heat.

    The house majority will do nothing. If things start to explode (public investigations, indictments, grand juries) they will follow the parade.
    The senate may do some real investigating, but it will be slllloooooowwwwww

  110. 110.

    Chet Murthy

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I’ve been thinking less of a mars “space program” and more a one-way one-time suicide mission, also.

    Let’s be fair: this -can- work. After all, one-way, and the astrunauts are gonna die soon anyway, so no need to get torn up about the fact that cosmic ray bombardment will destroy their hearts and brains (probably other organs too). The only problem I see is that in the case of going to the Moon, we were able to get there really, really incrementally. Test out all the systems step-by-step. Recall that Apollo 8, 10 went all the way to Moon and didn’t land — just went ’round and came back. We won’t have that luxury, will we? But all that said, sure, a one-shot gamble can work. As long as we’re really, really clear that it’s a gamble in a sense that Apollo was *not*.

    that turned out to be a huge boon for space exploration funding.

    M4, I don’t quite know what you mean here. Do you mean “boon” in the sense of “got the public all excited about space exploration”? That’s true, I think. But OTOH, from my chats with a friend who’s built a number of the big orbiting instruments (well, the cameras for them), it’s clear that almost all space scientists think manned missions are a waste of money and robots can do the job much, much, much more cheaply.

    Of course, they don’t drum up the public enthusiasm like a manned mission. But going back to my point that any Mars mission will be -wildly- more risky than Apollo, what’s the public mood going to be like, after a failure. And even if it’s a success, watching the astronaut(s) slowly die on Mars can’t be good for public sentiment, no? If we add up the scenarios and weight them by their probable effect on public sentiment, would it still look like a good bet?

    I’m reminded of the second Deep Blue match. Deep Blue wins; IBM disbands the team soon thereafter. Scuttlebutt was, the calculus went like this: If we play again, and Deep Blue wins, it’s “ho hum, big deal”. If Kasparov loses, it’s a giant black eye. So no upside. I think they calculated correctly. And in the same sense, I don’t think it’s on-balance good for space exploration, to go to Mars on a suicide mission.

    P.S. @moops: @moops: is spot-on. Spot-on. As someone pointed out, if you really really believe in colonizing Mars or the Moon, just dig underground colonies on Earth. Heck, put ’em *under* Antarctica. B/c that’s gonna get you just as much loot, and a shit-ton easier to do. And any colonies on those worlds will be underground anyway.

  114. 114.

    Aleta

    @Chet Murthy: My impression is the same, that NASA ended the manned space program to concentrate only on robotics. There was a period when former astronauts and some scientists were lobbying the govt to keep it alive, but by now it would be harder to start up again. I think the big motivation is mining, and it feels like the publicity about sending people might be political hype. Hoping to make us cheer for rockets again or something?

  115. 115.

    Aleta

    @Chet Murthy: And as you point out, it took a long time, many cautious stages and tests, to put someone on the moon. Hard to believe the US is up for that.

  116. 116.

    Chet Murthy

    @Aleta:

    I think the big motivation is mining

    Yeah, so, even setting aside the simple fact that without oceans of lead shielding, humans ain’t gonna live in space, I find the idea of mining in space to be somewhat ridiculous. I’m not a physicist, but I remember the rocket equation. And the amount of -stuff- we’d have to get into orbit to even -start- on mining …. it’s just crazy. I mean, you have to move a massive industrial apparatus up there. And for every part of the supply chain that you don’t move up there, you have to send the -output- of that bit of the supply chain up. I’m *mystified* by people who think this can work.

    I’ll agree that -if- we can get something like a space elevator working, or EVEN a mass driver-based method of getting stuff up there, things get easier. But we don’t have either of those things, and they’re nowhere near foreseeable. And even if we had ’em, we don’t have the propulsion systems we need (and won’t until fusion becomes real — and hooboy I don’t see any chance of fusion plants that aren’t the size of football stadiums or bigger — yeah right, we’re gonna loft that into space).

    I’m an EE, and I just don’t understand how people can think “we have to colonize space b/c otherwise we’ll all die when the asteroid hits us” is an argument that we -can- colonize space. Miusk esp. strikes me as a blithering idiot. Necessity is NOT the mother of invention in the sense most people understand it (which is: “if we need it, we WILL invent it”).

  121. 121.

    lowtechcyclist

    Spend some time to float in outer space,
    find another planet, make the same mistakes
    -Modest Mouse

  122. 122.

    Brachiator

    @Chet Murthy:

    .. Necessity is NOT the mother of invention in the sense most people understand it (which is: “if we need it, we WILL invent it”)

    Curiosity is the mother of invention.

  123. 123.

    NobodySpecial

    @NotMax: You don’t colonize the surface. You build floating habs. About 50k up. Earth normal temps. Carbon dioxide for plant life. Oxygen is lighter, so you could actually float on your oxygen supply. NASA even has a mission blueprint.

  124. 124.

    Vhh

    @moops: Never mind colonization. Cosmic radiation exposure during the long [years] journeys to/from Mars will make astronauts lives nasty, brutal and short. Love that ozone layer that filters out dangerous radiation on Earth.

  125. 125.

    Starfish

    @danielx: I think some people have proposed funding going to Mars by collecting $100 from everyone who wants to send Trump to Mars.

  126. 126.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Princess Tackycrap encounters un-Brodered media and an unscreened audience

    Annie Karni‏Verified account @ anniekarni 9m9 minutes ago
    Moderator gets to it! “The Germans are not that familiar with the concept of a first daughter. What is your role?”
    Ivanka Trump gets booed, hissed at during Berlin event –
    Ivanka’s answers were well-rehearsed. The questions seemed surprisingly aggressive for the format.

    Hallie Jackson‏Verified account @ HallieJackson 2h2 hours ago
    Some in audience now hissing Ivanka as moderator presses her about @POTUS attitude toward women. #W20

  127. 127.

    ET

    We won’t get to Mars in my lifetime much less by a second Trump term if there is one. They aren’t going to allocate the money or the resources and frankly America (and Trump) has a short attention span and getting to Mars is the long game. We aren’t wired for that.

  128. 128.

    Brian Murphy

    Reading these comments is depressing. I thought the Democrats were supposed to be the party of science, optimism, and government investment in the future. Getting a human to Mars won’t lead to Mars colonization any more than Apollo lead to colonization of the moon. But the latter lead to numerous unpredictable technological spinoffs, and inspired a generation of future scientists.
    If the attitude on this thread had prevailed with our pre-hominid ancestors, we’d be stuck in the trees. Why go down to walk the earth, when WE CAN MAKE THE TREES GREAT AGAIN?

  129. 129.

    TenguPhule

    @Brian Murphy:

    I thought the Democrats were supposed to be the party of science, optimism, and government investment in the future.

    And the American public decided that science was for pu**ies.

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