Isn’t this interesting:
White House Director of Legislative Affairs Marc Short outlined in a letter to the House oversight committee how it would not complete the request from the panel, referring some requests to the Department of Defense, saying the office doesn’t have custody of some of the other documents or simply stating “we are unable to accommodate” others.
A White House aide disputed that the White House was withholding anything from the committee, saying they could not provide documents they do not have access to. The aide said that they directed oversight investigators to the appropriate agencies.
About 110 days ago, when our President was a Kenyan Muslim Usurper, this would not be called “denying a request,” it would be called a “cover-up.” I suppose there is also the possibility that these fucking incompetent boobs who were completely unready to govern simply have no idea where the documents are or if they even exist, but that’s no fucking excuse and actually a reason to dig deeper on other WH staff and their side gigs with the Russians and Turks and who knows who else.
Villago Delenda Est
Worked really well for Tricky Dick, Donald. You’re out of your element.
TenguPhule
That this is even plausible is a sad indictment of where we are now.
But the only way to be sure is to ship them to Guantanamo and vigorously interrogate them all. Starting from Donald, because he believes in the power of a good waterboarding.
hovercraft
@Villago Delenda Est:
Thing is Tricky Dick and his cohorts knew what they were doing, this lot is just fumbling around in the dark, a god coverup needs a minimal amount of competency, stonewalling just leads to leaks, remember leaks are the biggest threat to the republic right now, not this stuff.
Adam L Silverman
Right now the informed speculation is that he did not indicate the Turkish income/affiliation on his SF 86. He is in significant trouble if that is the case.
That said, I think what the White House is trying to do here is obfuscate the issue. They are correct that Flynn’s clearance was last held by the DIA. What we do not know is whether or not that had expired before he accepted the position of Assistant to the President-National Security Advisor (APNSA). Moreover, we can conclude, by simple mathematics, that his SCI had expired as he had not been read onto an SCI for over two years. This would have required his new sponsoring agency – the Executive Office of the President to submit new justification paperwork for a new SCI read on. And, for the position of APSNA, this should have required a Counterintelligence lifestyle polygraph (CI lifestyle poly). If any of the information submitted for any of this did not account for foreign contacts, including foreign business contacts, there is going to be significant legal jeopardy. That we now know that Flynn’s Turkish employer is tied to Russian business interests is only going to make this worse.
Basically once he went to work for the President, paperwork would have been submitted by the White House Special Security Officer (SSO) to have his clearance released from DIA. DIA would release it and it would be grabbed and attached to the Executive Office of the President’s clearance line. It is possible that Flynn’s consulting allowed him to maintain his clearance. In this case DIA would have released it to his company’s Facility Security Officer (FSO). When he went to work as the APSNA the White House SSO would have requested Flynn’s company’s FSO release the clearance so it could be grabbed and brought onto the White House’s clearance line. I have no idea if Flynn maintained his clearance when at his company. Given the way he left DIA it is likely he was read of and that was that.
Now back to my cave.
Jerry
And this is certainly not helping:
Lapassionara
Does the WH know that the term “documents” includes emails? Do they realize that since the WH staff is purportedly using personal email accounts for WH business that those personal accounts should be searched for responsive documents?
Elie
They are so fucked and are generally too stupid to know it. You have to watch the key flunkies like Chaffetz. When they start heading for the exits, trouble is brewing. Before its over the whole WH is gonna smell like putrefication. They have no sense of what they know or what they don’t know. Stuff is gonna get out because they don’t know how much shit there is much less how to stop it. It will be devastating for them, and also, very unfortunately, for our country.
LAO
@Jerry: Which is why, in the absence of real “bi-partisan” support for an independent investigation, any congressional investigation is a sham. Shame on Congressional Republicans and the media that aids and abets them.
rumpole
I wonder if they would have issued a subopoena if HRC was in there…
TheOther Bob
I am just thankful that this round of Nazi’s doesn’t have the organization and efficiency of the original Germans.
TenguPhule
And if anyone thinks the AG office is actually going to do something about this, I have a nice bridge to sell them.
The military justice system will probably make an effort, but given how compromised our other institutions already are, its not implausible that it gets stalled or buried by a sufficiently high positioned wingnut there too. But I’ll be first in line to cheerfully admit I’m wrong if we do get to see Flynn convicted.
Villago Delenda Est
@Lapassionara: But…but…her emails!
TenguPhule
@TheOther Bob: The bad news is that they can always improve their efficiency quickly, simply because they’re starting at rock bottom.
piratedan
@LAO: which means that there has to be public pressure brought to bear and the issue is that the GOP has no interest in uncovering what was going on because their upper leadership is likely complicit and the press is also dubious about pursuit, all you have to see is how the issue is being framed and presented in the media. Putin has done an awesome job of compromising the watchdogs.
hovercraft
@Elie:
This is a big part of their problem, as the villagers have suddenly decide to notice the last couple of weeks not only do most of these morons in congress not have any experience passing legislation they are not old hands at how to conduct a real investigation and not just a partisan witch hunt. Someone like McTurtle knows how to do the Kabuki, aspects of looking like he’s doing something while actively hindering the investigation, Chaffetz, Nunes and Gowdy don’t, they come across as what they are partisan apologists. McTurtles problem in the senate will be that while they also have no real interest in investigating, many of them want to run for president, and this will be a stain on their records.
Republicans meet the rock and it’s cousin hard place.
germy
Joyce H
I suspect that even if they received a document request that they very much wanted to comply with, they would have difficulty doing so. Remember, this is the gang that couldn’t find the light switches. Competence isn’t exactly their strong suit.
low-tech cyclist
As if they were independent fiefdoms, or something.
Tokyokie
It’s entirely possible they can’t provide the docs because they haven’t hired any support staff.
Betty Cracker
Steve M has a theory, bolstered by output from the Trump-friendly “National Enquirer,” that they’re going to hang Flynn and maybe a few others out to dry but that Trump will successfully feign innocence, portray himself as unknowingly surrounded by a nest of traitorous vipers, etc. It seems implausible that a president could survive such a massive scandal, but then again, it seems implausible that a massive buffoon like Trump is actually president, so I dunno…
Felonius Monk
Maybe it’s time to look into how much money Putin and his Ruskie pals have “donated” to the NYTimes and its management.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@TheOther Bob: Who, lest we forget, were also not terribly competent.
SatanicPanic
@Betty Cracker: The National Enquirer is either hilarious or dangerous propaganda, I haven’t decided which. This week they were claiming that Trump is going to defeat Putin, Assad AND Kim. Within the year. It literally had their photos on the cover and said “DEAD MEN WALKING”.
Mnemosyne
@hovercraft:
You know who does know how to do an investigation? Former prosecutor and ranking House Democrat Adam Schiff. And he’s breathing down the Republicans’ necks.
catclub
See Reagan, Iran-Contra. We have been here before, and it did not end well that time either.
Villago Delenda Est
@Betty Cracker: That theory worked well in a certain central European country in the 40’s, where so many of the natives were convinced that the Führer couldn’t have known about all the bad things happening around him because he was surrounded by evil men who kept the truth from him!
Good luck selling that in a post Nürnberg environment, Drumpfenproles.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne: And without the ability to subpoena and secure witnesses unhindered by Republicans on that committee, it doesn’t look like he’s going to get very far.
Matt McIrvin
@Villago Delenda Est: Tricky Dick had a Congress that wasn’t on his side.
Mnemosyne
@Joyce H:
Completely OT, but I had a writing thought for you and missed the writers’ post this weekend. Do you know who Iain Banks is? He’s a British author who writes both thrillers and science fiction, and he uses a slightly different pen name for each. He writes as Iain Banks when he does a thriller, and Iain M. Banks when he does science fiction.
That may be a way out of your dilemma for writing both romance and cozy mystery — add a middle initial to one of those names so your readers know at a glance which type of book it is.
Villago Delenda Est
@hovercraft: The Villagers are a huge part of the problem from the shitty grade Z movie star on.
Wipe them out. All of them.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
We would need a lawyer versed in the rules of Congress to tell us this, but is there any reason Schiff would not be able to get a sworn affidavit from a friendly witness?
germy
@SatanicPanic:
Do they understand the true nature of the enquirer? Or are they alarmed when they see headlines like that?
I’m reminded of an old sci-fi film about some extra-terrestrials who land on earth and are shocked to see an enquirer-type headline about “Martians Invading” and say “Oh shit! They’re on to us!!”
chris
@Mnemosyne: Used, sadly. Banks left us in 2013.
hovercraft
@Mnemosyne:
Yup and my bestie Elijah Cummings, between him and Schiff, we have some terriers who will keep making noise about this. And a hat tip to master troller Maxine Waters who seems to have worked her way under some peoples skin. This will not go away, @Betty Cracker: the bumbling buffoon who was duped by these duplicitous aides is in stark contrast with how he wants to be portrayed, just look how well that’s worked out for Chris Christie. Or as @catclub: said Raygun.
Splitting Image
@Betty Cracker:
The Enquirer might be, for the moment, the one paper with real insight into the workings of the American government. The Trump doctrine has always been “Everything bad that happens in the universe is somebody else’s fault”, so he will be able to stay on message while all of his advisors go down. Most of his supporters think exactly the same way, so he may actually get through this.
Mike in NC
Ivanka’s cute new puppy ate all those documents. End of story as far as the Village Idiots are concerned.
Can hear Spicy the Liar on the TV in the next room, oozing contempt for the press as they lob marshmallows at the podium.
Keith P.
Or “contempt of Congress”.
Villago Delenda Est
@Matt McIrvin: True, but even then many of the Republicans of the time (see Cohen, William) put country before party. Now it’s the other way around.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
The people with the really important information are not friendly.
D58826
@Villago Delenda Est: Get with the program. ‘Her e-mails’ are so yesterday. The current obsession is will she or won’t she run for political office – NO not Hillary but Chelsea. There are a dozen or more VSP’s speculating wither Chelsea’s ‘no i’m not running’ is in the present tense, the future tense, mysteriously expires in 2019, or maybe she is just being Shermanesque. (sigh).
In the meantime Obama’s latest betrayal is accepting a 400k speaking fee. I’m not sure whither former public officials should be accepting these kinds of speaking fees, but on the other hand what are they supposed to do with the rest of their lives.? Accepting huge fees for writing books? Going to work for some corporation? Maybe setting up a foundation to deliver medical care to Africa (oh wait that was tried and found to be corrupting).
TenguPhule
@Keith P.: Which Karl Rove showed can be ignored with impunity IYAR.
germy
@D58826:
The villagers are jonesin’. Clinton withdrawal syndrome. Tremors, night sweats. They need SOMEONE from that family to run office. Have the grandchildren shown any interest yet? “Gotta know.”
TenguPhule
@D58826:
You can always count on our phucking purity ponies to ignore the enemy and open a circular firing squad on “EVIL MONEY”.
And this is partly why I have no confidence in 2018, getting an organized Democratic party is like trying to herd really pissy cats.
oldster
When is Congress going to pressure the White House to come clean?
I’ll tell you when: when constituents pressure Congress.
We killed Trumpcare with our phone calls. We forced the Republicans’ tiny hands.
We can force their hands on investigations, too.
If you haven’t called your Rep today to complain about the cover-up, please do it now.
Tarragon
@Mnemosyne:
used to use… He passed away in 2013. :(
CONGRATULATIONS!
@catclub: Ended just fine for Uncle Ronnie, who never did a day of the jail time he so richly deserved.
TenguPhule
@oldster:
Never. SATSQ.
Cites facts clearly not in evidence.
D58826
@germy: The grandkids no but I’m sure they will start speculating on the greatgrandkidsimaking a run for president in 2050. (assuming that there still is a country in 2050 after 4 years of Der Fuhrer but the VSP’s prefer to leave him to his twitter account).
ruemara
@TheOther Bob: Amen.
I, personally, am heartened to see that people who think they know corruption and grift through their business practices shall discover how entirely different it is to do this as a member of government.
@oldster: concurred. Getting the GOP to abandon their “sellout everything as long as we get power from it” strategy is the only way to get them to do what’s right.
@D58826: That it’s a white woman & a bunch of white men saying this is… surprising and unsurprising at the same time.
D58826
@CONGRATULATIONS!: and Ollie North made millions off of it.
hovercraft
@Keith P.:
Sadly, they do have contempt for congress, as far as they are concerned they are there to be a rubber stamp for whatever he wants to do, and even sadder, the republicans seem to agree with him, except when it puts them in immediate danger with their constituents, you know like if you try to take away their benefits.
Patricia Kayden
It’s okay if you’re a Republican (and White).
ruemara
@SatanicPanic: dangerous propaganda. The editor is/was a friend of Trump’s and has been a key outlet of screaming corruption headlines against Clinton & Obama for over a year.
Mnemosyne
@chris:
@Tarragon:
You guys know his books are still in print, right? But, yes, I did not know he had died.
hovercraft
@germy:
I have it on good authority that Charlotte was seen making eyes and waving at people in public, she’s testing the waters. She claims she’s not running, but has not said, “If nominated, I will not accept. If elected, I will not serve”, so she’s hedging, why won’t she just give us a straight answer?
Patricia Kayden
@oldster:
My Reps are Democratic, but they’re still going to hear from me. Ditto my Senators.
Villago Delenda Est
@germy: I have a solution to the Villagers problem with a lack of a Clinton hate fix. Tumbrel rides.
RobNYNY
@TheOther Bob:
Or as one of my friends puts it: “It’s like The Game of Thrones, except that everyone is stupid.”
trollhattan
@germy:
Suspect this is precisely what’s going on. Their hatred is hard-wired since ’92 and careers have been built on it, damnit and most be maintained. No Clinton, no Limbaugh and perhaps no Fox News. Local paper letter to the editor bemoaned the unwarranted O’Reilly firing, opining the Real Sex Criminal Named Bill is walking free, earning Clinton bucks.
Patricia Kayden
@D58826:
Yep. For some reason, Democrats have to be destitute and shoeless to be pure while Republicans can grab all the dollars (including ours) and no one says peep. President Obama should earn all the money he can now that he’s out of office. Screw anyone who says otherwise. Let him be.
chris
@Mnemosyne: Love his books, just sad there will be no more.
MJS
@ruemara: But something is up with them. As I referenced in another thread, the entire National Enquirer cover is “What Trump Doesn’t Know”, includes pictures of Flynn, Page, and Manafort, and also says, “Putin Had 15 Spies Murdered to cover up the Hacking of the Election”, or something along those lines. So it looks like the defense is going to be, “Trump is Just an Innocent Rube”, which kind of runs counter the current, “Trump’s Really, Really Smart”.
gene108
@Villago Delenda Est:
Unless Republicans in Congress actual bother to investigate it, even with just half the fervor they dedicated to Benghazi or there’s a Mark Felt, at the FBI, who has had all he can stands and he can’t stands no more and finds a willing and able reporter(s) to leak info to, I’m really losing confidence anything concretely damaging to Trump will come out.
There’s Trump’s cover-up. Nune’s cover-up. Chaffetz cover-up. Burr’s dragging things in the Senate anyway, cover-up.
germy
@trollhattan: Have you heard the news about Bain capital and i-heart radio?
Something about possible bankruptcy for the radio empire.
ruemara
@MJS: Oh yeah, that’s a given. Which is why I said dangerous propaganda. There’s way too many people I feel should be jailed at this point.
FlipYrWhig
@D58826: Remember how after Chappaquiddick everyone said “no more Kennedys in public office, we hates them!”? No, that didn’t happen? Hmm, interesting, seems like this hatred for “dynasties” really only applies to 3 Clintons and half a Bush.
Goku
@gene108:
And these fucking cowards hide behind secret service protection, so really nothing of any consequence can truly happen to them
gene108
@Patricia Kayden:
I blame the media.
They are so soft on Republicans, fucking incompetent Republican nitwits get elected President. When those nitwits leave office, no one wants to have anything to do with them, because they are incompetent, mean, vicious, dishonest, scoundrels.
Democrats end up with savvy, hardworking, pull themselves up by their bootstraps Presidents, who leave office young and popular and are in demand.
It’s a totally different dynamic.
People want the Clintons and now the Obamas on their team. They are the retired legendary captains, the fans still adore. What they do still, somehow, reflects on the team, because people want them on the team.
No one wants ex-Republican Presidents on their team. They want them to crawl under a rock and stay out of sight.
Reagan, in my lifetime, would’ve been the one exception, but he had Alzheimer’s, and wasn’t good for much after leaving office.
Edit: I’m not saying ex-Dem Presidents shouldn’t get paid, what the market is willing to pay them. I don’t have a problem with it.
It is just that there’s a reason for the double standard. Our ex-Presidents don’t suck, and we expect them to be representing 20-30 years after leaving office. So they got a standard of some kind to be held to, other than “crawl under a rock and stay there”.
Patricia Kayden
@RobNYNY: Maybe not as stupid as we think. They’re probably making $$$ hand over fist under Trump’s regime. This is all a perfect grift for most of them.
MJS
@gene108: There were 11 months between the Watergate break-in and the first Senate Watergate hearing. It was another year before impeachment hearings began in the House. I’ll start to worry that nothing is happening when that one woman who goes on Bill Maher and has been right about virtually everything Trump-Russia related (can’t remember her name right now) starts to worry that nothing is happening.
Elie
@hovercraft:
While I am sure that they will delay and obfuscate as long as they can — there will be so many ways that this mis-administration messes up that there will be too many things to run from. Their own inaction and incompetence will also come more to the fore — the whole thing reeking of incompetence and collapse. Unfortunately, this will affect us.. We will have to try to contain the damage much as possible with as much of what remains of our institutions, but the breadth of their incompetence is just emerging IMO. Its bad.
Patricia Kayden
@gene108:
Yep. And we should be letting them know that we’re not buying what they’re selling. If a sleazy man like Trump can be President and make money from being President (along with his nauseating kids), then a former “no drama” President like Obama can earn money legally while he is hot and in demand. Why the hell not in a capitalist country like the U.S.?
Barbara
@germy: And it just feels SO GOOD to torture women. Better than heroin. And the saddest part is the number of female journalists at the NYT who joined the self-loathing drug party.
hovercraft
@D58826:
For years there has been the assumption that you serve your country as a public service, and the when you’ve finished that chapter of your life you get to go and earn your reward for the sacrifices you made in serving your country. Before the GOP went insane, the people who used to get elected were well educated smart people, who if they were in the privates sector would be making big bucks. There were two models, the people who were already rich and those who “survived” on their public wages. The only reason Obama was a millionaire, is that he can write, and he was able to do that while serving, more typical are the Biden and Clinton model, people who worked their way from nothing and have never earned a lot, this is when they get to finally get paid. We see/saw all the stories about how much money the Clinton’s made from speeches, how many did you see about how much RMoney makes/made from giving speeches, there’s an entire industry that keeps Gingrich and co. in the black, bu there was barely a peep about wingnut welfare. I guess democrats are supposed to refuse to take money when people are throwing it at you. Obviously speaking to and accepting money from some people looks bad, but if some right wing entity wanted to invite me to speak before them and explain my views for six figures. I wouldn’t say no. Now would they? No. Would they invite Wilmer to harangue them for 40 minutes no. You can go into the lions den to try to beard it, that doesn’t make you a sellout.
FlipYrWhig
@gene108: This isn’t the media doing it this time, it’s the same idiots who latched onto Bernie Sanders as the paragon of purity because he looks disheveled in public and yells about Wawl Shtreet.
schrodingers_cat
OT Question for the Hive Mind
My JS voting and travel ban defending friend sent me a birthday card with a passive aggressive message inside. What should I do
1. Acknowledge it and thank her
2. Ignore it
3. Send the rant I had written up when she defended the said ban. I did not send that email, but stopped corresponding with her completely. I could no longer take her BS anymore, even for old times sake.
FlipYrWhig
@hovercraft: And somehow no one ever explained that Trump was getting more $$$ per speech than even the she-devil Hillary, or that “Trump University” was a get-rich-quick scheme involving real estate speculation.
germy
@schrodingers_cat: If you want to enrage a passive-aggressive person, ignore her. If you send her a rant you’ll make her day.
schrodingers_cat
@FlipYrWhig: Toddlers are better groomed than he is. What gives?
trollhattan
@germy:
Nope, I hadn’t but thanks for the comment because it solves the mystery of what happened to Clear Channel (the nation’s single biggest destroyer of listenable radio). Pity, seems they dug a craphole they can’t climb out of.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@schrodingers_cat: Ignore.
ETA: what germy said: ignoring P/A people sends them through the ceiling.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
I saw a really interesting story during the whole Gamergate thing about a transgender woman who had gotten involved in it and was pretty misogynistic, thinking that women were oversensitive and complained too much.
Then her fellow Gamergaters found out she was a woman and the shit hit the fan. All of the stuff she had thought other women were lying about started happening to her, including the death and rape threats.
To her credit, she said it was a major eye-opening event and she felt bad in retrospect that she had dismissed how virulent misogyny really is until she started living as a woman.
FlipYrWhig
@schrodingers_cat: Every old academic man who lived through the 1960s does that. It’s the conscientious performance of not being concerned with looking proper because that’s bourgeois Establishment whatever.
At least Sanders wears a sportcoat and not a Hawaiian shirt and/or Birks.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m also on the “ignore” list. But don’t be surprised if she keeps contacting you and getting more aggressive than passive-aggressive. She’s desperate to get a reaction from you and if it’s a mean one, then she wins and gets to be a martyr.
Don’t give her the satisfaction. Just ignore.
Goku
@schrodingers_cat: Option #3, then ignore
Edit: actually just ignore
schrodingers_cat
@FlipYrWhig: I know a prof who is trust fund baby, drives antique cars but dresses worse than BS. He looks like a homeless person. However, BS is not a prof but a politician.
Millard Filmore
@MJS:
Not out of the question. Look at how fast the Republican base accepted Russia going from “Mortal Enemy” to “Friend and Ally”.
hovercraft
@FlipYrWhig:
Don’t you dare look closely at anyone running against Hilary, if you do you are merely trying to distract people from her record of being shady!
I suspect he only does it because of house and senate rules, if they had allowed it, he would have gone full hippy.
MomSense
@gene108:
I think we need to start ringing their phones off the hook calling for serious investigations. If congress can’t do this then we need an independent counsel.
This is BS
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: Unload. These people never comprehend there are consequences for their actions. And once you unload, ignore. She’d have to crawl to make restitution.
Mnemosyne
@Goku:
Nope. The rant is what her friend wants in return, so she can go weeping to all of their mutual friends about how mean SC is and how she’s totally irrational and it’s so sad that she would abandon an old friend over something so minor.
Set phasers to “ignore.” It’s the only possible strategy when someone is trying to create drama.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
The reason not to unload is that it allows the former friend to be a Crying White Lady to their mutual friends. Ignore is better.
ETA: She’s already experiencing the consequences of her actions — SC is no longer her friend. What this person wants is an angry rant that she can use to portray herself as a martyr.
FlipYrWhig
@schrodingers_cat:
He’s one of those politicians who pretends to be a politician against his will. It’s such an obnoxious pose.
Goku
@schrodingers_cat: How p-a was it btw?
@Mnemosyne
That sounds so pathetic
hovercraft
@germy: @schrodingers_cat:
Ignore, just like when the kids throw a tantrum, you ignore them and leave them with their own thought. Eventually they get over themselves.
My 10 year old went through a phase a few years ago, his tantrums took the form of stripping down to his birthday suit and storming off to his room. We ignored him and eventually he’d come out, needless to say the phase didn’t last long.
Jeffro
@hovercraft:
Raygun? Naked Raygun? What a great idea on a slow afternoon!
schrodingers_cat
@Goku: Wherever you are have a great spring birthday or something to that effect.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne: Naw. Take it from a Brown Woman of Experience. Crying White Lady will exist regardless. I’m well versed in this. The one thing people have the biggest problem with is the concept that their actions have consequences and they can hurt the POC in their lives. People do not believe that we can be hurt. They don’t think that what they support has real world impact. This is non-negotiable. We’re not getting anywhere by ignoring anything and her friend is already whining to someone that she doesn’t know why Schrodinger is not talking to her.
Jeffro
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yeah, but that’s your solution to EVERY problem…
Not that there’s anything wrong with that, as long as we’re talking about GOProblems.
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: Yep she dismissed all my arguments against T last year, because she was fixated with the purity pony argument of how HRC is a bitch.
manyakitty
@Patricia Kayden: YES. YES. YES.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
Right, but IIRC SC has already explained in great detail to this woman why what she said was racist and why she was breaking off the friendship, and the only response she’s gotten is willful stupidity and refusal to understand why SC is angry.
This woman doesn’t deserve yet another explanation that she’s going to refuse to accept anyway.
ruckus
@TheOther Bob:
They don’t have the organizational skills of the Hitler Youth let alone the adults.
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: You’d be surprised how many Rs I know who desperately want me to forgive them and forget, despite me making it abundantly clear this WOC is an immigrant and terrified. And are taking their Ls when they approach me to make amends that don’t include “I’m a fucking moron and I voted for the Nazi and I don’t expect forgiveness until I make amends”. They’re truly stunned I can be mad or hurt. Treating your black friend like they’re mannequins as you vote against them.
@Mnemosyne: I know, but we (POC) often use reason when people need to see our emotions and that we blame them for causing our distress.
hovercraft
Poor Nancy, someone should tell her that just like the Canadian journalist who tried to keep track of all the lies he told during the campaign, this list will never end.
What Trump Didn’t Know
by Nancy LeTourneau
……….This is a reminder that there are a lot of things Trump didn’t know about. Here are some examples that come to mind:
He didn’t know that health care is complicated.
He didn’t know whether a strong dollar was good or bad for the economy.
He didn’t know what happened with immigration reform in 2013.
He didn’t know what was in the New START Treaty.
He didn’t know anything about China’s history with North Korea.
He didn’t know the process for getting a FISA warrant.
He didn’t know that China stopped manipulating their currency about two years ago.
Those are just the ones I can remember. Did I miss anything?
Where does one even begin? This could be a new drinking game.
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: She has assured me that she can’t be racist because she likes Indian food and was a Yoga teacher.
Goku
@schrodingers_cat: Eh, coulda been worse. For some reason I was expecting worse. She should just accept that your friendship is over. Hard sometimes, but actions and the words we say have consequences.
I remember during the campaign, while I was still lurking, you would mention her every once in a while. You tried to enlighten her, but some people just can’t be reached. No offense to your friend, but (apparent) airheads who think their actions have no wider consequences to other really annoy the hell out of me
ruckus
@TenguPhule:
The concept is that they can improve because that’s the only direction they have. But that also implies that they have skills.
SatanicPanic
@schrodingers_cat: 4. Tumbrel ride! Cures everything.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
The only reason to choose to forgive someone is if they’ve apologized and made amends for their behavior and actions. Otherwise, no sale.
I really wish I could come up there and do some whitesplainin’ to white people and see if I can finally get it through their heads. Probably not, though.
Kay
I don’t know why we can’t just have a normal. competent investigation of the Russia matter. They have taken this thing and made it a matter of opinion and it didn’t have to be like that.
Why are they so horribly unprofessional? I’m truly disappointed. More and more it’s like things happen and everyone decides the facts are unknowable and we get this kind of “majority opinion” that is untethered to anything real. I don’t want to know “majority opinion”. I want to know what happened.
Just do the investigation. No opining on other matters unrelated to the investigation. Why is this so hard?
Iowa Old Lady
@hovercraft: He didn’t know Lincoln was a Republican.
ETA: He didn’t know much about NATO.
(And mind you, these are all the things he says he or “most people” didn’t know–the ones he admits to)
schrodingers_cat
@ruemara: This is true, I am hurt by her blithe dismissal of my concerns. In addition to defending the ban she has also become a climate change denier. Its like she has undergone a personality transplant since her mother passed away.
ETA: Husband kitteh does not get the feeling of betrayal I feel, he thinks I should be more forgiving.
les
@Adam L Silverman:
What’s the chance these fuckin’ yahoos don’t have an SSO, and don’t know what an SSO is?
schrodingers_cat
@Iowa Old Lady: Someone should give the citizenship test. I wonder if he will pass.
Erick
@hovercraft: and even with a bunch that knew what they were doing eventually Tricky Dick got impeached and a few of them went to jail
Goku
@Kay: Because the fix is in. Republicans are in neck deep to this Russian shit. Their voters are too dangerous for democracy in any fair and legitimate form to survive. I hate to say it, but only mass organized violence against Republican-controlled gov and their enablers is going to have any hope at all of righting this ship, and that’s not a very good chance. A lot can go south. I hope I’m wrong, but the Congressional investigation shitting the bed is not encouraging
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
IF you did want to respond (and that’s a big IF, IMO), then I would take Ruemara’s tack and emphasize that you are hurt by what she’s said and done and until she realizes that her actions were hurtful and apologizes to you, you can no longer be in contact with her. She can claim all she likes that she’s just talking about politics, but she’s saying and doing things that are hurting someone she claims is a friend, and that’s not the act of a friend.
ETA: I don’t think your husband “gets” what it’s like to have a female friend betray you. It’s a girl thing, and I try not to say stuff like that.
SatanicPanic
@Goku: violence is not going to work, we can ditch that plan right now. If we win back the house in 2018 we can start getting answers. That’s not that far off.
les
@TenguPhule:
Where were these assholes when St. Ronnie Raygun–a literally demented yahoo–got $2Mill for 2 speeches?
hovercraft
About that dinner with the supremes
Supreme Court Never Got A Formal Invitation For Dinner With Donald Trump
The White House had floated a tentative schedule that had critics buzzing.
and speaking of incompetence.
100 days of gibberish – Trump has weaponised nonsense
Lindy West
With only a week left of his first 100 days in office – traditionally a milestone for American presidents – Donald Trump sat down with the Associated Press to reflect on his accomplishments (sic) and preemptively brag about future ones. This remarkable artefact, a transcript of which AP then released in full, captures, more than any other piece of media (except perhaps Trump’s Twitter feed), the unifying ethos of the Trump White House: weaponised nonsense.
The interview is deep, pure, tangy, umami Trump. I felt like I was reading one of those children’s stories in which a villain’s soul is written into a book and imprisoned there for ever – only without, in America’s case, such a happy ending. Donald Trump remains in the Oval Office, making decisions about whom to explode next (in the interview he calls this responsibility “the bigness of it all”), not gathering dust on a sorcerer’s shelf. Bad! (Not good.)
Trump lies relentlessly about his achievements (claiming, for example, that he’s “mostly there” on his 100-day plan, despite appearing not to know what it is), admits he “never realised” how big a job it is to be president, forgets how many missiles he fired at Syria, even though he got the number right only 17 words earlier, and compares his TV ratings favourably to those for 9/11. In my second favourite moment in the interview – the first being when he inexplicably drops the word “hamlets” – Trump describes a meeting with Democratic congressman Elijah Cummings:
“Well he said, you’ll be the greatest president in the history of, but you know what, I’ll take that also, but that you could be. But he said, will be the greatest president but I would also accept the other. In other words, if you do your job, but I accept that. Then I watched him interviewed and it was like he never even was here. It’s incredible. I watched him interviewed a week later and it’s like he was never in my office. And you can even say that.”…………………………
We must keep calling these ideas what they are, and to do that we need a shared understanding of what words mean. That’s why Trump’s 100 days of gibberish aren’t just disorienting and silly – they’re dangerous. Trump approaches language with the same roughshod imperialist entitlement he’s applying to the presidency (and, by extension, the world) – as though it’s a resource that one man can own and burn at will, not a vastly complex collective endeavour of which he is only a steward.
WASF
Goku
@SatanicPanic: Unless foreign intervention of the Russian bent happens again, and there’s no guarantee it won’t. It was successful, right. Congressional races were targeted and why would the Grand Oligarchy Party interfere. They benefit from it and would love nothing more than to make the US into a one party state. They’re the only Real patriots after all.
I did express doubts about the effectiveness of violence in the original comment. A revolution could easily spiral out of control ala Reign of Terror-era France or simply fail and give the Rs even more of an excuse to clamp down sooner
Like I said, I’m really hoping I’m wrong. I don’t like hurting people anymore than the next person. I just don’t know what to do. It feels like this crap will never be exposed, and even if it were everyone would just shrug their shoulders and say ” both sides” and that would be that
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: No. Love to the husband kitteh, but no. Forgiveness doesn’t mean “keep harmful people around”. It can also mean, “I forgive you and free myself from you while educating you that you have the capacity to harm others”.
@Mnemosyne: There’s a reason Tim Wise has a career explaining things on race to white people and making black activists go “But I fucking said that before! And why can’t I get paid?!”
ruckus
@trollhattan:
Had to deal with Clear Channel when I worked in professional sports. Everyone above the bottom feeders was scum. And the higher they were the worse they were. Fish absolutely rotten from the head.
SatanicPanic
@Goku: We don’t know to what degree the Russian intervention was successful. I suspect not very because Hillary still won the popular vote. The problem with Russians trying to intervene wasn’t so much that they were doing something wrong (they were), but that Trump might have gone along with it. It’s still a crime whether it worked or not.
As far as violent revolution- it almost never works and when it does the results are almost always worse. FWIW if it comes to that I’d rather just live under the Republicans. But it won’t, because we have many other options to exhaust before then.
Mnemosyne
@ruemara:
White people who are still caught up in unconscious bigotry will usually only listen to other white people when it comes to race, if they listen at all. Sad but true.
(People who are consciously racist bigots are a different story.)
germy
gvg
@schrodingers_cat: Meh, ask him, what if stupidity is contagious. you could learn how to go with the herd instead of using your brain. Stay away. She changed when she moved to a more conservative area right? I think I remember.
Goku
@SatanicPanic: I guess we’ll have to wait and see
trollhattan
@Patricia Kayden:
Remembering how among Republicans (and a smattering of True Believers) Obama was the “Feckless Tyrant” (lead from behind+executive overreach=Worstest President Ever!)? We now have that literally, in Trump. I have a hunch he does not tie his own shoes, because he never learned to.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
I just looked and realized that Ivanka’s has a dog.
I’m surprised that her lunkhead brothers haven’t been by to shoot it – that seems about their speed.
Quinerly
@Adam L Silverman:
#4….Thanks for the details. Now, do you think Flynn is just stupid or what?
Yutsano
@Quinerly: Arrogance. He didn’t think he’d get caught since the refs were all on his side.
hovercraft
@germy:
Andrew Cuomo is scum, I don’t know if he’ll win the primary if someone not crazy and a Bet-bot runs against him. I doubt that the Working Families Party will allow themselves to be coned by the asshole again next year. So if someone gets their act together and runs against him, they could send the piece of shit packing. Yes I know wishful thinking, but he really is a waste of space.
glory b
@ruemara: From another woman of color, yep.
I heard Jill Stein being interviewed on the radio before the election. Black women were vehemently disagreeing with her. One asked what were people of color to do if she peeled off enough votes for Trump to win.
Stein seemed to swallow and say that we were SOOOO strong, we could make it through until the great lefty awakening (not her words, but you get the drift).
So, yeah, they willfully refuse to see the consequences for us.
Quinerly
@Yutsano:
I was inclined to go with arrogance, too. But with this Administration I really don’t know.
Jeffro
@hovercraft:……….
And much of these can be attributed to his relying on Fox News, Breitbart, and Alex Jones for his “information”?
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
I’m sure being a good jew means you’ll be the last one sent to the showers.
chris
@Yutsano: @Quinerly:
Read a piece somewhere that suggested they were so sloppy because they didn’t expect anyone to care because they weren’t going to win. Even the shitgibbon didn’t expect to win.
TenguPhule
@hovercraft:
Those words do not belong in the same sentence and should never do so ever again.
TenguPhule
@les: Hating on Carter, apparently.
TenguPhule
@Goku:
Nope.
Mass civic breakdown ensues in that case.
Our system only worked because people trusted it to work.
Take that away, you end up with Russia or pick your own African nation. Rule by whoever has the most reliable firepower.
Of course, the GOP is undermining the pillars of civilization anyway, so we’re probably headed there irregardless.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Republicans in Congress.
SATSQ.
TenguPhule
@ruckus:
They do. That those skills are the 21st century’s equivalent of “Rape, Pillage and Burn.” does not make them any less skillful. Even morons can develop easier, nastier ways to do what they want.
Tenar Arha
@schrodingers_cat: I’m sorry to hear you’re still dealing with this.
Husband kitty doesn’t get it. You can’t be friends with someone who doesn’t respect your full humanity. Someone who condescends to “be friends” but doesn’t listen to you at all? Nope on out of there.
I’m not sure what the best response is. Whatever most satisfies you and closes the door on her hard is probably best.
If you’ve already told her off, not responding might be best. But another option is a mini-rant explaining please don’t bother to contact you until she wakes up. Suggest that if she does you’ll be pleased to hear it, but also mention this is your last communication/you give up. The “don’t contact me unless you can explain where and when you went wrong and apologize on your knees” is always useful.
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
Thanks for the info
James E Powell
I know it’s a futile as various bloggers’ request “Can we please have a better media?” but my current request to every member of the press/media is “Pretend it’s a Clinton and respond accordingly.”
They never will, will they?
ruemara
@glory b: I’ve had to tell friends it is possible to hurt my feelings and you have. Not surprised one bit.
Uncle Cosmo
@TenguPhule:
Jim Hightower once famously noted that
Someone needs to dig up the can opener, pronto!
MaryLou
@schrodingers_cat: Acknowledge and thank, but continue communications blackout on all political matters. No reason to abandon all we have ever learned about manners. (Yes we are better than that).
Ben Mays
@FlipYrWhig: You’ve been in my closet? I have worn the sport coat with the hawaiian shirt.
VFX Lurker
@schrodingers_cat:
I say ignore it. She does not seem worthy of your time.
J R in WV
@Mnemosyne:
Mr Banks was an author… he died a young death not that long ago. I enjoyed most of his SF, the couple ot “fiction” novels I read didn’t make so much sense to me, even compared to SF with sentient space ships and people who modified their bodies by mental desire. I miss him, already. Way too young.
But your thought is a good one, two similar names for two genres of fiction.
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
Read your rant carefully, see if you can sharpen it up anywhere, then send it, and push that key hard!Others are right, just ignore it, forever.