Official HFC position means at least 80% of its members now support the Obamacare replacement bill. https://t.co/ZMklGVut36
— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) April 26, 2017
At this point, the AHCA as revised is on the knife’s edge to get out of the House. The Senate is where the highly anticipated battleground was always going to be. Time to light up their phones.
The great question on policy is Medicaid. There are a number of Republican senators (Portman, Heller are case examples) who represent Medicaid Expansion states whose Republican governors were not on board with the AHCA in March. These are the pressure points.
My read is if the AHCA gets out of the House it solely functions as a vehicle to get to conference committee with whatever the Senate wants to do. So let’s tell the Senate what you think.
Update 1
Tuesday group cochair @RepCharlieDent says he thinks most moderates who opposed AHCA still oppose. Says some supporters could flip too.
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) April 26, 2017
Mike Coffman has flipped from a yes on the health care bill to an "undecided."
— Matt Fuller (@MEPFuller) April 26, 2017
Call the Tuesday Morning Group and let them know what you think…
Felonius Monk
Do you think that the provision included in this bill to exempt members of Congress from its provisions is really going to fly?
rikyrah
Ok, will call.
MomSense
The GOP just will not quit until we are all dead.
You betcha I’ll be hitting the phones when Inget home today.
JPL
@Felonius Monk: Of course.
The Senate will pass it using the Byrd rule, which means a simple majority can pass it. I’m horrified,
Yarrow
Sorry, I’m confused. Is the House voting first? Does this mean it’s more likely to get out of the House? Shouldn’t we be calling House members too?
Roger Moore
@Felonius Monk:
Yes. The requirement that they buy on the exchanges was put in as a poison pill, so they are in no way ideologically wedded to it. And I don’t that they’re going to worry about the appearance of exempting themselves from the rules. Taking health care away from tens of millions of people is a gigantic shit cake; exempting themselves from the rules is just the thin shit icing on top.
Chris
Christ, can’t this thing just fucking die already?
(Stupid question. They’re still trying to destroy Social Security over eighty years later).
oldster
David, do you really think we have to give up on the House vote this soon?
I thought the dynamic with TrumpCare v.1 was that it was hated by the “Freedom” caucus for being to generous, and hated by the “Moderates” for being too vicious–throwing millions off of insurance.
This new amendment pleases the “Freedom” caucus by making it more vicious. Won’t that make the “Moderates” more afraid of it? Won’t this lose it as many votes among Republicans in unsafe seats as it will gain from the “Freedom” caucus?
SO my question is: before we give up on the House, shouldn’t we be throwing all of our weight behind phoning the same “Moderates” who helped to kill the bill last time?
? Martin
@JPL: I wouldn’t be so sure. The Senate doesn’t have neatly gerrymandered districts to benefit them, and with one or two exceptions they haven’t been the ones beating the repeal Obamacare drum.
Additionally, the polling on the ACA is going against them. The more this is debated, and the public comes to terms with what this all means, the less they support repeal. Appreciate that how the question of ‘should ACA be repealed’ would be answered depended on what kind of result the person polled thought would come as a result. With a democratic president, they could believe that the repeal would result in a more generous policy, and with a republican president a less generous policy. Since the GOPs plan came out, the public is seeing first hand what they will lose – and they don’t like it. There was sort of this assumption in the polling that the opponents to ACA were all republicans. That’s not the case. The Senate will recognize that far more than the House will.
Yarrow
@oldster:
This is my question as well. I don’t understand what David means by “knife edge.” If it’s that close, why aren’t we burning up the phones for the House. Makes the “moderates” scared of taking away insurance from their constituents. Town halls have been pretty raucous against taking away health insurance. Shouldn’t we be pressuring the “moderate” Republican House members. Along with the Senators of course. Call them all!
? Martin
@oldster: I think a lot of the difference is throwing more control back to the states, so that the moderates from bluer states can trust that their state will keep certain provisions while freedom caucus members from redder states can trust that their state will eliminate certain provisions.
The House is such an utter shitshow that it’s hard to gauge whether they really have consensus or not. I think the House members in tight districts will have a harder time with the optics here given that they’ll all get drowned by ads in 2018 about how they voted to take your healthcare away, but protect their own. That alone is going to sink some of them, and as of this morning it seemed a lot of them didn’t realize that’s what they were signing onto.
TenguPhule
@MomSense: Or they are.
/Just saying.
TenguPhule
@oldster:
They might be able to whip the “moderates” into voting for it, simply because a “moderate” Republican is more easily bullied into compliance then a Freedumb member.
rikyrah
Republicans move forward on far-right health care overhaul
04/26/17 12:55 PM—UPDATED 04/26/17 01:03 PM
By Steve Benen
After the Republicans’ American Health Care Act died last month, unable to garner enough support from within the GOP, there have been frequent reports about efforts to breathe new life into the far-right plan. By and large, the scuttlebutt was easy to overlook.
The latest developments, however, seem different and deserve to be taken seriously.
There’s new legislative language that amends the original Republican proposal, and the House Freedom Caucus is now on board with this new version – after having opposed their party’s bill in March. Conservative groups such as the Club for Growth and FreedomWorks, which also balked at the AHCA during the fight last month, have said the new changes are sufficiently right-wing to earn the organizations’ support.
All of which leads us to two broad areas of interest: how bad is this bill and can it pass.
On the former, the core of the original legislation – taking coverage from tens of millions of Americans, slashing Medicaid, cutting taxes for the wealthy, directing subsidies away from those who need them most – remains intact. What’s new is an amendment, negotiated in part by Rep. Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.), which moves the bill even further to the right. Vox’s report noted that the changes “would likely cause even more Americans to lose coverage than the last version.”
………………………………….
House members will likely be reminded of certain political circumstances that should give them pause: most Americans don’t want the Affordable Care Act repealed; most Americans want to see Republicans move on to something else; most Americans opposed the original GOP plan (and this one will be even less popular); and most Americans want a health care system that does pretty much the opposite of what this far-right bill intends to do. Protections for those with pre-existing conditions enjoy especially broad public support, and this Republican plan would gut them.
ArchTeryx
@TenguPhule: Having their cold hands removed from the levers of power for good would be enough for me.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
Republicans believe in the power of marketing.
If they could turn a decorated veteran into a despised traitor hippie, they believe they can turn pre-existing conditions into “Young Bucks with T-bone Steaks”.
They may not be wrong about this. The American public can be surprisingly stupid when bombarded with conservative media spin.
Yarrow
Okay, I’ve called them all. My Dem rep’s office staff leaves something to be desired, as usual, but will be a reliable vote against any GOP health-destroying bill. Had to leave messages for my Senators. No idea where they stand. Will call back to a local office later to see if I can get someone on the phone.
oldster
@? Martin:
“I think a lot of the difference is throwing more control back to the states, so that the moderates from bluer states can trust that their state will keep certain provisions while freedom caucus members from redder states can trust that their state will eliminate certain provisions.”
I’m pretty sure you are right about that, since it is part of the nonsense that I got from an aide in my NY congressman’s office during the first round.
I pointed out that this was like helping an arsonist burn down your neighborhood because you have sprinklers in your house. It’s the thinking of sociopaths, and it is un-American. Each of us has friends and family in many other states, no matter where we live, and we elect our Reps to make policy that is good for all Americans.
No one should allow bad legislation to pass, just because their own state may be insulated from the worst of it. It never ceases to amaze me how much Republicans hate America.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
This has always been my biggest fear about this – and it’s also why I don’t trust the Senate to stop this bill.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule:
True, but it didn’t work with Bush and Social Security. People seem to pay closer attention when you’re going to take away basic services from them.
Take nothing for granted, though. Call all your Reps and get your friends and family to do so too.
TenguPhule
@Chris: I remember a commenter telling me that my fear that Mcconnell killing the legislation fillibuster for something like this was silly.
Doesn’t look so silly now.
p.a.
@MomSense: they haven’t stopped on Social Security and it’s been 81 years.
ETA: comment 7 beat me to it…
Roger Moore
@Roger Moore:
Maybe not. Apparently, they are worried enough about the appearances of exempting themselves that they’re walking it back:
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
And it took a full court press by literally every interest group, Democrat and expert to do it.
Remember, the Bush privatization actually started out strong for them and it took a lot of effort to kill it in public opinion.
Mike J
This was true of several Democrats who voted for Obamacare, but they did what was right for the country.
oldster
@Roger Moore:
So there next move will be to say, “we did not really mean to exempt Congress from the new cuts–that was a mistake and we’ve rectified it.”
At which point we need to say: this is why there must be no vote on this bill until it is fully scored by the CBO and other independent groups. They are trying to rush this nonsense through without any scrutiny, and that must be stopped.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule:
It sure did, but a full court press can have that effect. We have to burn up the phones and get other interest groups on board.
From David’s Update 1 above:
I had a look around and it there doesn’t seem to be a list of members. Found this:
TenguPhule
@Yarrow: One of the things I’m grateful for it that my State is blue from head to toe. We’re already all in against this shit.
Mike J
Center for American Progress has a list of 30 moderates to convince that Tryancare will cost them. Sadly, twitter exists, so the list is in a graphic rather than cut and pastable text.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-WwBuRXkAEzHsr.jpg
Parfigliano
@JPL: Time to face facts…..they will not stop until O CARE scalp hangs on their belt. Time play long game….when people see what they lost when they lost O CARE they are going to be lookin for scalps. Dems should plan accordingly
hovercraft
@Yarrow: @oldster:
TPM
Jeffro
@rikyrah:
Even more will lose coverage…wow, that’s even beyond what Paul Ryan used to gush over at keggers…
Roger Moore
@Mike J:
The difference is that when the Democrats voted with their party at the risk to their reelection chances, it was for the good of the country. If the “moderate” Republicans go along with their party at the risk of their reelection chances, it will be bad for the country, too. So we definitely want to encourage them to give in to fear and vote no, not to fight it and vote yes.
JMG
I remain unconvinced McConnell will end the legislative filibuster, mostly because I don’t think he has the votes, but also because he doesn’t want to. He has 52 Senators our of 100, not 57 or 58. He doesn’t want to toss a power away he might need later, like in 2021 or even 2019.
Chyron HR
Whatever. If the 100 million people who never bother voting want Obamacare back, they know damn well what they need to do about it.
themann1086
Rep. Pat Meehan (Spineless Weasel*, PA-7) is “very concerned” about the amendment. Here is how Pat Meehan has acted so far with the AHCA!
1. Voted the bill out of committee before the CBO score
2. Continued to offer non-committal statements as the bill was slammed by everyone
3. Sent a form letter to everyone who had contacted him saying he opposed the bill… after it had already been pulled from a vote
Using his words from that letter now definitely put the staffer in an uncomfortable position. Anyone else stuck in the 7th, flood him with calls.
*Apologies to both invertebrates and weasels, who don’t deserved to be lumped with the likes of Meehan
hovercraft
From the Atlantic
“We think the MacArthur amendment is a great way to lower premiums [and] give states more flexibility while protecting people with pre-existing conditions. Those are the three things we want to achieve,” Speaker Paul Ryan told reporters on Wednesday morning, after a private meeting of the House GOP. “I think it helps us get to consensus.”
Yet the speaker acknowledged they hadn’t quite reached that consensus, and without the support of enough moderates, the bill could still fall short. While MacArthur is the author of the compromise, he was already supporting the bill to begin with. A former insurance executive, he’s only beginning his second term in the House and is not seen as a driving force within the Republican conference. Another of the three co-chairmen of the Tuesday Group, Representative Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, had come out against the GOP bill and quickly declared himself unmoved by MacArthur’s amendment. So did Representatives Dan Donovan of New York, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida, and Frank LoBiondo of New Jersey. In fact, of the more than a dozen moderates who were opposed to the American Health Care Act a month ago, none have yet said the new compromise changes their mind.
So they’ve consolidated the deatheaters, but they haven’t gotten to 218 yet.
TenguPhule
@Chyron HR:
Blame the Democrats.
I wish I was joking.
dmsilev
@hovercraft:
I think there are still a few deatheater holdouts, some of whom won’t be satisfied until they get a bill that explicitly calls for feeding poor people into the Soylent Green vats.
The other question is how does this possibly survive the Senate? Either they ditch the legislative filibuster or effectively do so by twisting the Byrd Rule into a pretzel, because there’s no way that this gets anywhere near 60 and even getting to 50 seems like a stretch. So, the proposition that Ryan is pushing is “vote for an incredibly unpopular bill that most likely won’t actually become a law but your opponents in 2018 will gladly use as an attack ad”.
catclub
@oldster: This exactly. Add in the special pleading section for preserving Congressional version of ‘no waiver of all the good parts for us’, and I see it having plenty of problems in the House.
Ohio Mom
Sigh…I guess my vacation from daily phone calls is now officially over.
I know everyone thinks Portman is someone who can be convinced — and I will call him, he is my Senator — but I think he is as untrustworthy as any of them. He is just better at acting like he is statesmanlike.
Chris
@dmsilev:
The problem with the “moderates” being the last line of defense is that the “moderates” end up in the usual rock-and-a-hard-place situation, where they can either piss off enough voters to seriously endanger them in the general, or piss off enough voters to seriously leave themselves vulnerable to a primary challenge.
In that kind of damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don’t scenario, there’s a very good chance that they end up saying “fuck it” and voting with the deatheaters – call it tribal loyalty, call it force of habit, call it the fact that they’re really pretty much the same sociopathic assholes deep down even if they cosplay as moderates on the talk shows.
Chyron HR
@TenguPhule:
Again, whatever. If Berning Man and his “knock off the identity politics and do what the WHITE WORKING CLASS says” movement thinks they can run things better, they’re welcome to try. And when they fail, a bottle of sleeping pills will still be cheap enough.
LurkerNoLonger
Jesus, with these fucking people. Since last time worked out so well they’re gonna try it again. Bunch of stupid masochists.
Roger Moore
@dmsilev:
There’s a reason my favored outcome for PPACA repeal was a slow, public failure that committed as many of them as possible. And that’s ignoring the extent to which this is sucking energy away from all the other awful crap they want to do.
catclub
useless numbers reporting: Tax version:
Is $2Tr a lot or a little? They could easily say: “This reduces corporate taxes by $200B/year from their present level of $500B/year,”
or better yet, skip the big numbers and say “This reduces federal income from the corporate tax by 35%, and corporate taxes make up
50% of the total federal government tax income.”
laura
@Jeffro: They want it GONE so they can get tax cuts for rich fuckers ASAP!
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@TenguPhule: I’d rather blame all the “progressives” and left-leaning folk who can’t complete a sentence without taking a big dump on Democrats. (Not directed at you, T)
rikyrah
Please post the names of the 23 GOPers where Hillary won their district in 2016.
TenguPhule
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: I know, my comment was pointing out the sad truth that our stupid non-voting public is stupid enough to blame Democrats for Republicans because “they’re all the same” or “they just weren’t trying hard enough”.
Its enough to crush any remaining faith one has in democracy.
Jeffro
@laura: Oh I know, I know…
Hey folks btw this is quite funny: How Trumpov’s Religion of “Winning” is Sabotaging His Presidency. It’d be more accurate if it just said, “Trumpov Doesn’t Know Shit”, but still…
japa21
@catclub: The effective corporate tax rate is one of the lowest in the world. There are so many loopholes that if those aren’t removed, the effective rate will go even lower.
ArchTeryx
Here’s a little encouragement: The GOS, which is rather infamous for clickbait headlines and fundraising pleas, actually isn’t hitting the panic button on this one: http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/4/26/1656473/-Freedom-Caucus-says-yes-to-Zombie-Trumpcare-3-0-but-the-moderates-still-say-no
Usually, they’re the first with the “to the barricades” lost causes, but this time they’re holding fire. They see the dynamic as unchanged: The “moderates” still aren’t quite ready to sign on to this lunacy. And if they do (as many in this thread fear) then they’ve just handed us the mother of all campaign issues to take back the House in 2018.
Nonetheless, I now have a current passport and have been in marriage talks with my fiancee to may get on her health insurance. I’m working on backup plans if somehow they jam this through Congress.
msdc
@Yarrow: This NYT vote tracker identifies the moderates and hard-line conservatives who came out against the bill last time, along with those brave souls who were on the fence.
Bg
@hovercraft: I just called Ros-Lehtinen’s office and could not get a commitment to vote no. They said she was a no on the prior bill but would review this new bill before making a decision. So if you are in her district, please call her
DC office is 202-225-3931
Miami office 305-668-2285
Some folks on Twitter are saying that Curbelo and Diaz-Balart are also not committed yet
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
California 10 R+1 Jeff Denham
California 21 D+2 David Valadao
Arizona 2 R+3 Martha McSally
California 25 R+3 Steve Knight
California 39 R+5 Ed Royce
California 45 R+7 Mimi Walters
California 48 R+7 Dana Rohrabacher
California 49 R+4 Darrell Issa
Colorado 6 D+1 Mike Coffman
Florida 26 EVEN Carlos Curbelo
Florida 27 R+1 Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
Illinois 6 R+4 Peter Roskam
Kansas 3 R+6 Kevin Yoder
Minnesota 3 R+2 Erik Paulsen
New Jersey 7 R+6 Leonard Lance
Pennsylvania 6 R+2 Ryan Costello
Pennsylvania 7 R+2 Patrick Meehan
Texas 7 R+13 John Culberson
Texas 23 R+3 Will Hurd
Texas 32 R+10 Pete Sessions
Virginia 10 R+2 Barbara Comstock
Washington 8 R+1 Dave Reichert
hovercraft
@Bg:
Good, everyone should call. I live in a safely democratic district in NJ, Frank Pallone is my congress critter and Booker and the fickle Menendez are my senators, still I called to inflate the numbers and say thanks.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
Another useful way of presenting it is as a proportion of government spending. Saying that $200 billion is as much as we spend on the Departments of Energy, Veterans Affairs, and Homeland Security combined gives people a much more concrete idea of how much revenue we’d be losing.
Jeffro
@hovercraft: Comstock is. Going. Down. in 2018. Since my neighboring district is safely blue, I’m not even going to think about spending time door-knocking or anything here, it’s all going towards flipping VA-10.
hovercraft
@Jeffro:
I hope so, I think there’s a good chance Issa goes down too. Actually if the Tangerine Turd keeps going the way he is, I think several of these people could go down, and many more who aren’t, just look at the two specials we’ve had, in KS and GA, with some organization we could pull it off.
catclub
@japa21:
Funny that I have not heard about all the corporate tax loopholes Trump is promising to kill. I bet he names them in detail and knows how much each one costs the Treasury.
catclub
@Roger Moore: except most people do not know if
add up to 2% of the Federal budget or 45% of it.
laura
@Jeffro:Oh I know, I know…
Jeffro,ofcourse you know! Like the rest of the regulars, if you weren’t such a smarty, you wouldn’t be at this party…
And if you are with us greennotGreen, sending waves of love and Grace over the ethers to you.
Mike J
@catclub: I remember answering phones for a senator and had a caller who was livid about the hundreds of billions we spend yearly on foreign aid to France.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
The point is not to give a sense in terms of the total size of the government but in terms of what we’re actually buying with the money. It’s something like the way people compared the size of the NEH and NEA budgets to the cost of trump’s weekends in Mar-a-Lago. Comparing the cost of two things- they could be direct expenditures, tax changes, or what have you- gives a concrete idea about budget priorities.
dmsilev
@Mike J: Someone still pissed off about the Marshall Plan?
Yutsano
@hovercraft:
And even if for some reason those fail this round, the seats will go open again next year. Organisation is gonna make this shit happen. If only the DNC would pull their heads out of their asses.
catclub
@catclub: I was right! the plan is EXTREMELY complete and detailed! Also fits on one page, generously double-spaced.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@dmsilev: That and Soviet Jewelry.
Elmo
@oldster: Late to the thread, but this:
is pure gold.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Yutsano: What has the DNC done now?!!
chris
Corporate tax is about 10% of government revenue. Cutting the rate will chop that in half or more. No nice things for you!
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/what-are-sources-revenue-federal-government-0
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yutsano:
No worries, St. Bernard will save us.
rikyrah
@hovercraft:
THANK YOU!!!
rikyrah
Heritage Action will no longer urge GOPers to vote “no” on O’care repeal bill https://t.co/wHPR4dL0Hb pic.twitter.com/nzaoNAkQq2
— Talking Points Memo (@TPM) April 26, 2017
ruemara
@Yutsano: Isn’t that the DSSC?
catclub
@oldster:
Truly American, in my view.
While the 1927 Mississippi flood was heading to New Orleans, the big-wigs got together and decided that the levees somewhere besides New Orleans
needed to be dynamited in order to divert the floodwaters and to save New Orleans. They Promised the people in the dynamited levees area that they would be compensated for their loss. ha ha.
There are always these depressing precedents. Chinese Exclusion Act, anyone?
catclub
@chris:
federal tax revenue is about $3Tr, so 10% of that is $300B, and the cut to corporate taxes is about $150B/yr.
thanks!
Ella in New Mexico
Between this week’s “New new Republican Bill to Repeal and Replace Obamacare” that exempts Congress from it’s horrific rules, The “Apparently Mostly Detail-Free but What Details We Do Have Make This Thing DOA Because It Fucks Everyone But Rich People and CorporationsTax Reform Bill”, today’s “Executive Order to Destroy Any and All National Monuments Designated by Barack Obama or Have Economic Resources Republicans Want to Free Up for Their Big-Money Donors”, and the hilarity of watching Donald’s spawn Ivanka promote her own, beautiful blonde version of the Clinton Foundation, I’d say we’re on track to really help Trump voters feel that stick being jammed deeply up their assholes.
Why stand in the way of a good thing?
jacy
@catclub:
Everything from this administration is like my kids writing a school report. Which is definitely not a good thing. I told the 17-year-old to help his 11-year-old brother with his country report. His first piece of advice? Every time you type the word “the” type it again to pad it out, because “no one reads these things anyway.” For being such bright kids, they play lazy idiots awfully well. They’d fit right in with the Trump administration.
Quinerly
@jacy:
Funny you would say that right now. Stephanie Ruehl (sp?) on MSNBC just said almost the same thing about the Trump Administration. She went on a righteous rant after that presser about the tax plan. Only caught a snippet but she said “it’s like a school report.”
Mike J
@jacy: This is the the sort of helpful hint I’m glad I didn’t have in school.
It’s impossible to search for songs by The The in iTunes, since apple decided it would be helpful to ignore the the word the the.
jl
@Ella in New Mexico: To be fair to Trump on the National Monuments EO, he is reviewing Obama’s, Dub’s and Bill Clinton’s designations. So, it is officially bipartisan looting for the sake of our corporate overlords.
Though what these jokers actually do is another matter. Several of Obama’s designations were expansions of Clinton and Dub designations.
So, what will they do? Rip out everything just for symbolism? Or just do what pays off best for the corporations? Or just mess with what the black guy did? Or just mess with the DemocRAT designations for bipartisan comity?
Patricia Kayden
@JPL: I hope you’re wrong. That would be devastating.
TenguPhule
@Ella in New Mexico:
Because their ass is lying right over ours. And Trump has a really big pointed stick.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
Thank you jl, I feel better already.
Quinerly
F*cking Tad Devine is back. On MSNBC. Hadn’t seen him in months. Figured he was in hiding.
Patricia Kayden
@chris: Tax cuts in the Reagan and George W. Bush years were devastating to our economy. When will Republicans learn that this trickle down theory is a bunch of malarkey? It doesn’t work. If you give rich people tax cuts, they pocket the money. It’s the middle class which spends to keep the economy working and growing.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Patricia Kayden:
When the sun rises in the west.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: I guess the latest version of the AHCA will destroy enough lives to satisfy the Heritage Foundation. Good to know.
Roger Moore
@catclub:
Don’t tell me, let me guess. Did they conveniently dynamite the levees in areas where the population was disproportionately poor and black?
germy
@Quinerly: I’ll bet any amount of money he’ll be involved somewhere in the next presidential campaign. Of course I don’t know who he’ll be working for, but that person will lose.
TenguPhule
Trump never going to release his tax returns
Color me unsurprised.
germy
@Quinerly:
“How I Spent My Russian Vacation”
Roger Moore
@Mike J:
Can you temporarily set your language to German so iTunes ignores der, die, and das instead of the?
catclub
Consider two states after the waiver is allowed. In state 1, the waiver goes through, and the residents of that state get low priced insurance that is worth even less, because hospitalization, Drugs, and office visits are not covered. The federal government also pays less in subisidies to those state residents.
in state 2, no waiver, and healthcare insurance is much more expensive, but covers hospitalization, etc. Then the federal government pays subsidies to those residents in order to get nearer to affording that expensive insurance. So that state sees net income from the federal healthcare bill while
state 1 sees no net income, but probably net loss from it. It makes no sense to me to ask for a waiver to make insurance for your citizens less costly – but also less valuable- and you loes out on available subsidies for your citizens.
Quinerly
@germy:
Good one.?
Quinerly
@germy:
@#92…oh, yes…Cockroaches and Tad Fucking Devine….
catclub
@Quinerly:
It is like a school report from a lazy student.
Steve in the ATL
@Mike J:
I hope they fix it soon. I keep thinking “This is the day…”
opiejeanne
@Mike J: Rohrabacher is considered a moderate?????
Roger Moore
@jl:
I’m gonna go with some mix of B) and C). There are still people pushing to reverse the designation- or at least massively curtail the size- of Grand Staircase Escalante, largely because of their absurd plans to put a coal mine and power plant on the Kapirowits Plateau. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to undo all of Obama’s designations. Many of the new monuments he created were done to get around Congressional gridlock driven by ideologues who are opposed to any expansion of federally protected lands.
Roger Moore
@Patricia Kayden:
When rich people stop propagandizing it and paying Republican politicians to push it, i.e. some time after the 12th of Never.
Quinerly
@?BillinGlendaleCA: They can say Trump is reviewing W’s national monuments, too, all they want. Everything that I have read is that it’s all about Grand Staircase Escalante (Clinton, I think designated on one of his last days in office) and Bears Ears (Obama). It’s all about Utah. As an outsider visiting out there for three weeks, I was shocked what a hotbed issue Grand Staircase Escalante still is all these years later. I met so many people who just out of the clear blue wanted to rehash it with me, a perfect stranger..and loathe Clinton for “stealing their land.”
Quinerly
@?BillinGlendaleCA: They can say Trump is reviewing W’s national monuments, too, all they want. Everything that I have read is that it’s all about Grand Staircase Escalante (Clinton, I think designated it on one of his last days in office) and Bears Ears (Obama). It’s all about Utah. As an outsider visiting out there for three weeks, I was shocked what a hotbed issue Grand Staircase Escalante still is all these years later. I met so many people who just out of the clear blue wanted to rehash it with me, a perfect stranger..and loathe Clinton for “stealing their land.”
Quinerly
Have no idea why my comment is in the thread twice. Sorry.
Mike J
@opiejeanne:
Guessing it’s because Hillz won the district.
Ella in New Mexico
@jl:
Yeah, but this all started with Obama’s designations, and that’s where it will end I guarantee you.
Based on my reading of history, I’m not sure they can unilaterally de-designate any of the Monuments–that’s gonna take an act of Congress to change the Antiquities Act. Which they really are already trying to do right now, but I’m not sure it’d get past the Senate, so…
In the meantime, they’ll definitely face a lot of legal battles if they try to do anything short of that. Some of those monuments were proposed very early in Obama’s 8 year term and it took up to the last couple of years for them to finally get approved, so reversing them will hopefully face the same delays.
Here’s hoping it drags into 2018 election and we change things up a bit in Congress to fight back. People in my state LOVE and ADORE our National Monuments, Parks and Forests. They are the basis for a sht-ton of tourism related-income, without which New Mexico wouldn’t be one of the poorest states in the Nation it’d be the absolute POOREST. They’re already not happy with this latest bullshit EO, Republican and Democrat alike.
This is just more ammo we have to prove to people that voting Republican is a death sentence for anything you care about.
Quinerly
@catclub:
#98…I think someone who posts here dislikes Stephanie Ruehl (sp?…MSNBC). She’s from Wall Street but has been on fire for a few weeks over Trump’s conflicts of interest and just brutal on Ivanka. She was quite shrill over the tax plan announcement today.
Ella in New Mexico
@TenguPhule: But until they feel the pain, we can’t do a thing to stop this train. They are that fucking stupid and brainwashed. I say we let them then watch Congress fall in 2018.
Ella in New Mexico
@Quinerly: yes, this has been pushed and pushed and pushed mostly Utah’s politicians, even though the general majority of the people and communities surrounding these monuments support their designations.
It might have started under Clinton but was practically dead until the “8 year Reign of Terror that was Obama” lit their fires. Also, too, take a look at who donated to their politicians campaigns and you’ll see why they want to take them down: KOCHKOCHKOCH
Scott
I called Lamar Smith, not that it would do any good, and actually got a live person. Said my piece and got off but it indicates that the tsunami of calls has not yet begun. I’m afraid if the volume doesn’t get real large, it will be interpreted as people being OK with the latest plan.
Besides bad health care policy, I lit into him about deficit spending and debt and that we should have no tax cuts for the wealthing. Which is really what this bill is all about.
Quinerly
@Ella in New Mexico:
I have some rather thought provoking bumper stickers on my Escape. Have spent a lot of time over the years in NM…never had a problem. This year, I expanded my “driving around looking at things” to Northern AZ and Southern Utah. A lot of White men, 60 plus who wanted to “educate” me at my Utah gas station stops…mostly around Kanab and actually a rather creepy, unprovoked interaction in Hanksville (think that was the town,I’ve tried to forget it). An entire week in Bluff,Utah which is now surrounded by Bears Ears National Monument, essentially on all sides…no problems…no conflicts.?
chris
@Patricia Kayden: I know. Here in Canada in the 1950s government got 30% of it’s revenue from from corporate tax. It’s less than 10% now. “Relieving the tax burden” has been an international hit for a lot of years now.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
We already know more than he’d like, so he’s not going to help us out in discovering more.
Roger Moore
@Quinerly:
Let me guess: you were in the populous area around Great Salt Lake, not in the area around Grand Staircase Escalante NM. My impression when I’ve visited is that the locals who are most affected by Grand Staircase have mostly gotten used to it, and many of them now earn their living from the tourism surrounding it. It’s the people who are further away who are still making a big deal about it. That’s why Chris Stewart (2nd District, contains the Monument) isn’t kicking up a huge fuss about it, while Jason Chaffetz (3rd District, does not contain GSENM) is.
Quinerly
@Roger Moore:
Nope. Didn’t make it to Salt Lake City. See #113. Most of any problems I had re Utah were in Kanab. Strange town, in my opinion
opiejeanne
@Quinerly: Kanab was creepy when we stopped there for gas 35 years ago.
I asked the guy pumping gas how to pronounce Kanab, and then made a comment that he can tell who’s an outsider if they mispronounce it, and he glared at me and said, “Oh, we KNOW who belongs here and who doesn’t.”
We left town in a hurry, didn’t stop for lunch, shook the dust off of our sandals.