All that hard work wooing “moderate Republicans” went swimmingly:
Some members of the Tuesday Group of House Republican moderates are plotting to oust Co-Chairman Tom MacArthur (R-N.J.) from his post amid frustration that he negotiated a deal on the ObamaCare replacement bill with the conservative Freedom Caucus, two Tuesday Group members told The Hill on Wednesday.
The matter could come up at a Tuesday Group meeting Wednesday afternoon, sources said.
“There is dissension in the ranks,” said one Tuesday Group member who backs MacArthur’s ouster. “The Tuesday Group, to me, is a group of concerned, like-minded representatives who discuss issues, not negotiate positions on behalf of the group, but have meetings on Tuesday and have lunch and discuss the pending issues of the day.”
I’m still hoping they have a vote tomorrow, that lots of Republicans from swing districts walk the plan and vote for the piece of shit, and then the smarter ones come in a neas and defeat it.
Robin G.
Basically, the Tuesday Group is pissed because they (the moderates) are now in a position to actually stand for something.
It’s so much easier to be CENTRIST and PRINCIPLED when you never have to put a vote on record.
LAO
Help me out — who are the smarter ones?
germy
Cameraman left bleeding after GOP gubernatorial candidate attacks him at Penn. country club
Doug!
@LAO:
Unfortunately, I think one of my local guys, Katko, is pretty smart. He will be tough to beat. Maybe he’s the only one, but I assume there’s others.
DanF
You could’ve gone MacArthur’s Park or you could have gone all Gen. MacArthur, “I shall Return!” Only one would insert an ear worm. Thanks. Thanks a lot Doug.
SenyorDave
@germy: Cameraman left bleeding after GOP gubernatorial candidate attacks him at Penn. country club
So this balances out the mean Democrats at Berkeley, so both sides
Jack the Second
Goddammit, people, TUESDAY Group, TUESDAY.
Corner Stone
@Robin G.: The “moderates” are pissed because they are now on the hook to sign on to a bill 25 members of FC want.
The Moar You Know
I’m personally loving this. Issa’s my rep. Shitbag Issa. How I have wanted to nail him up on a cross. And now I can.
I call his office every day through the AARP line. They answer those calls every time. Tell the interns (ALWAYS BE NICE TO THE INTERNS) to tell him “don’t do it! I’m watching! I’ll vote you out!”. And since they have my name and address, they can look me up (and have) and can see that I’m one of those “decline to state” voters and that makes them very nervous. Maybe I vote Republican a lot! They don’t know. What they DO know is that he won his last election by only 2% and that the same guy is coming for his ass next year with a LOT more money. He’s in an district full of AARP members and Medicare/Medicaid recipients. He thought he’d be safe forever. Well, now he isn’t. And he’s terrified. Doesn’t want to say yes, doesn’t want to say no, wants the whole thing to go away and it’s not going away.
I so enjoy calling his office these days.
MJS
@germy: This guy is a huge Trump wannabe. I’m thinking maybe he missed the crest of that wave, but maybe not.
Ruemara
I’m watching the whip count & the religious freedom EO throughout the day and I cannot tell which one is upping my anxiety levels more.
Ha ha haaaaa
Lose now or lose later. Let’s just get it over with. You are playing against a side who has unlimited tries and no problems breaking rules. We already lost. Can’t anyone understand that?
Raoul
This shit is getting me very worked up. I worry a great deal that something unexpectedly bad will happen in the Senate and some sort of ‘compromise’ bill will get negotiated in the upper house and sent back to the House and, g-d help us, passed that f*ks us over.
I wish I could be sanguine about a House vote and it sinking several dozen GOP members come November 2018. But unexpectedly bad things happen in politics (and life), and letting the House pass this piece of homicidal garbage is not, IMO, a good thing even as ammo for us later.
Ugh. Dammit.
LAO
@Ruemara: why choose? Both are very upsetting.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
Remember, the trick to it is to make sure he can’t bend his knees.
/just some random trivia.
Major Major Major Major
@Ha ha haaaaa: you must be fun at parties.
TenguPhule
@Ha ha haaaaa: Is that your way of volunteering to be the first suicide bomber?
TenguPhule
@Ruemara: All of em, Katie.
Judge Crater
America has become a sad, sad place. The “debate” on health care is a case study in human pathology. The richest country in the world has reduced the moral dimensions of getting sick to a shell game over the cost of treating sick babies. Maybe we are in “end times” when human selfishness transcends all other values. The GOP and the people with “Christ” in the name of their religion are going to owe some higher power an explanation.
Mike J
OT, but in case you haven’t heard, don’t click on links to googledrive docs sent to you in email, even from people you know. Massive wave of phishing going on. If you don’t want the internet to be reading your risotto hints, just don’t click.
Redshift
@LAO:
Neither.
However, the “moderates” are somewhat better in that they are in swing districts, so they can’t afford to do solely what wingnut base voters want and refuse any compromise, which is the only thing the so-called “freedumb caucus” wants to accept.
Doug R
@Ha ha haaaaa: Sounds like you’ve lost already.
jacy
@Ruemara:
Don’t know why Pence doesn’t just slap a copy of The Handmaid’s Tale in front of Trump and have him sign off on it. You know he would.
Hoodie
@Corner Stone: and they know likely won’t pass the senate and, even if it does, they get massacred in the inevitable backlash as dems run nonstop tv ads about how they sacrificed your healthcare so that ivanka doesn’t have to pay inheritance taxes. They are being asked to commit seppuku to make Ryan look good and give the shitgibbon something to brag about that screws their constituents. They know that Ryan is all too happy to sacrifice their seats, especially since he thinks he’ll still have a majority.
Turgidson
@Robin G.:
I mean, I’m glad there appears to be a critical mass of non-brain-damaged Republicans in the House who appear to be unable to swallow the inhuman shit sandwiches the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver keeps telling them to eat (much less the cyanide-laced versions the Freedumb Caucus would foist on us if they could). It will make it harder for the GOP to turn the country into the dystopian nightmare their heartless and idiotic ideology demands that they pursue.
But I’d hardly call the holdouts principled. I’m reminded of the famous Big Lebowski quote: “Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude. At least it was an ethos!“. I have more respect for the Freedumbers in this very narrow sense. They are actually trying to follow through with what they’ve been saying they wanted to do all this time, and their effort is consistent with their (atrocious) ideology. The Tuesday Group was thrilled to vote to repeal the ACA a few million times when they knew it was a symbolic gesture only. Now that there are actual consequences to their braindead dipshittery, they are wetting themselves. Even as I root for them to torpedo this sick joke of a bill, I find them pathetic.
TenguPhule
Root for mutual destruction in the GOP Civil War.
/yes, its a metaphorical Civil War.
Yarrow
David Young is apparently from Iowa. Anyone in his district? Iowa Old Lady? Anyone know anyone there you can bug to call?
schrodingers_cat
Is anyone else a fan of The Tuesday Club Murders?
It has nothing to with the R Tuesday club.
Lizzy L
@Ruemara: I don’t know if it will make you feel better, but the ACLU’s meanest, toughest lawyers are standing at the gate, just waiting for that EO.
hueyplong
@Ha ha haaaaa: A ungenerous person might respond, “You’ll eventually get fucked anyway, so why not go fuck yourself now?”
Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian
@Jack the Second: The Tuesday group is meeting on Wednesday. The center cannot hold. Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.
schrodingers_cat
DougJ@top is Bess your new centrist, both sidery persona? If yes, allow me to congratulate you on a masterful impersonation of a reasonable centrist, that would put Tom Friedman to shame.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: who’s Bess?
Ruemara
@jacy: pretty fucking sure of it.
@Lizzy L: it’s no great comfort to those who will be affected while litigation happens. This EO affects even public service workers. Like, say, cops & firefighters. Those two right there are often dealing with life & death choices. I know they’re ready and until Trump packs the benches, they’ll win, but individuals will be losing in the meantime. And it didn’t have to even be on our radar, we had a better choice.
Chris
@Turgidson:
Then again, given that what that ideology is about is condemning tens of thousands of people to either die, go broke, or throw themselves on the mercy of fundamentalist churches that’ll use the money they need to control every aspect of their lives, does anyone really give a shit if they’re being “consistent?”
Ever since I’ve started following politics, I’ve idly wondered which is worse, people causing tons and tons of human damage because they honestly believed it was good, or people who did it because they cynically saw a buck in it – i.e. what’s worse, being the Taliban or being one of the warlords? By far the best answer I’ve ever gotten came from a Captain America comic:
Dr. Erskine: “You work with the Nazis, even though you don’t share their ideology?”
Red Skull: “And?”
Dr. Erskine: “Am I supposed to believe that makes you less despicable than them, or so much more?”
Red Skull: “Forgive me for answering your question with a question, Doctor. If I kill your family because of their Jewish blood… or if I kill them because you refuse to work for me… Will they not be dead all the same?”
Major Major Major Major
@Ruemara: I forget, since I haven’t looked it up since February, but do you know how this will affect hospitals?
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: A commenter who thinks liberals are mean to NPR, that reasonable Rs still exist and MooCs will make college cheap because we can all learn physics from Carl Sagan and history from Ken Burns and so on.
ETA: A sample comment from the last thread.
Goku
@germy: That’s not how a leader acts. Period.
randy khan
@Ha ha haaaaa:
First, lose later almost always is a better option than lose now – things can happen between now and later that change the loss to a win, and in this particular case “later” means that it would take longer for actual human beings to lose their health care.
Second, every day they spend on health care without a resolution is (a) a day they look bad because they’re floundering; and (b) a day they’re not doing something else awful, so the longer it takes them the better.
Third, I’m not sure what you’d propose to do other than resist. Certainly no good will come from accepting it as inevitable.
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodingers_cat:
Used to love that collection — Jane Marple at her sharpest, most dithery best. Haven’t read the stories in years, but may haul them out to reread fairly soon.
Ksmiami
Everyone – please go read Charles PIerce’s latest article and distribute far and wide…
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a54870/healthcare-commodity-human-right/
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: Wow.
Do people not know that NPR and member stations get, like, less than 5% of their funding from the feds?
schrodingers_cat
@randy khan: He was advocating defeatism in the morning thread too. Has to work hard for the rubles.
rob!
MacArthur is my congressman. I have called him numerous times, wrote him a letter, and showed up to his office. But our district is +6 for Trump, so I guess his calculus is while he might be in a blue state, his job is safe. He is wrong.
As I told a staffer at his DC office last week, I have moved from trying to persuade MacArthur to do the right thing to simply doing what I can to make sure he loses his job.
This guy is angling to run against him.
Iowa Old Lady
@Yarrow: My congressman is the unfortunate Rod Blum, Freedom Caucus. I don’t believe I know anyone in Young’s district. Sad.
ruemara
@Major Major Major Major: People discussing is say it will. It’s very broadly written.
Ha ha haaaaa
Look at yourselves and your comments, it’s not me lining up for internet marytr duty.
AnonPhenom
@Ha ha haaaaa:
yeah, and we’re all dead in the long run.
that doesn’t mean we should commit suicide. now or anytime soon.
up your dose.
TenguPhule
@Ha ha haaaaa: Oh no, I don’t expect you to martyr yourself on the internet.
/Give me this one people please, the troll’s asking for it.
schrodingers_cat
Its the same troll that was pushing Jeb Bush initially, I think.
Barbara
@The Moar You Know: He can avoid ever having to vote in public by telling his leadership that if forced to vote he will vote no. These guys don’t want to be on record and the only way to achieve that is not to vote at all, hence, they need to make it clear the bill can’t pass. This is not rocket science.
Redshift
@randy khan:
Not to mention that they’re doing health care first and handing the savings to millionaires so they can do tax cuts afterward that send more tax cuts to millionaires, via reconciliation. The clock is ticking on that; if they can’t do it soon, it limits the follow-on reconciliation bill, so even if they succeed later, delaying directly limits their ability to cause more hard.
(Leaving aside that it’s not a foregone conclusion that they’ll succeed eventually. Their entire problem is that they’ve been lying to their base for seven years about what they could do, and whatever they do, it’s going to be bad for a lot of them.)
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: Bess, or mister loser up there?
Redshift
@Barbara: Ah, but he also wants to avoid admitting to his base that Republicans couldn’t repeal Obamacare when there’s no one stopping them but themselves.
Lizzy L
Some thoughts, although IANAL: 1) Most cops and firefighters aren’t federal workers. It won’t affect them. I don’t think it can immediately change federal regulations. 2) It has no effect on state laws or on state constitutions. 3) Nothing that already exists in law, as for example, same sex marriage, will be affected. 4) It will immediately be litigated, and while it is litigated, nothing in it will take effect.
I would love for some of the resident lawyers to weigh in here.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Not Bess, the one in this thread.
Lizzy L
@TenguPhule: All yours.
efgoldman
@germy:
Wagner just locked up his quest for the nomination
Mary G
@The Moar You Know: What’s the AARP line number? They must have their system set to not take my calls, and they keep upping the number of rings before the answering recording comes on. Currently at 12.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: I got a shomi vibe.
Goku
@TenguPhule: Go right ahead
@Ha ha haaaaa: You’re pushing a bullshit defeatist narrative. With that kind of nym I know you’re a fucking troll. Fuck off
George Spiggott
“Hey, who threw that brick?”
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: Go nuts, I miss the old TenguPhule.
Mary G
@Ha ha haaaaa: Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
JPL
@LAO: This was from the hearing today
Hirono Are you working with DOJ
Comey yes we are, two prosecutors and the Eastern District
In your opinion, is this a big deal?
link
Yutsano
@Mike J: Retweeted that earlier. Also watching my work e-mail just in case.
Barbara
@Redshift: Right, that’s why he doesn’t want to take a public position. Only by not voting does he get to do that. No one is going to announce how he would have voted.
ruemara
@Lizzy L: No, the religious freedom law isn’t just at federal level. It allows public workers freedom to discriminate. And we already have that affecting people, case in point, the judge who said he would not preside over cases that involve gay adoption. Of course it will go to litigation, but it won’t prevent people from presuming they now have the right to be bigots.
The Moar You Know
@Mary G: I’ll tell you but you NEED to join. Not to use this, you just should. They’re the best pressure group out there, they are cheap, everyone fears them, and you’re supporting them with money they could sure use.
844-259-9352, follow the directions.
Mnemosyne
@Mike J:
We got that at the Giant Evil Corporation. Interesting to hear that it’s not just us.
trollhattan
@Ha ha haaaaa:
I see it’s dark and 7 degrees in St Petersburg. Bundle up.
Sloegin
This is looking like a repeat of Medicare part D; looked like it was going to lose and then the full court press happened; threats, arm-twisting, 3 am vote, vote being held open for 3-plus hours. Some ‘no’s’ are now back to ‘leaning’.
FC’ers have a shit bill and they’re spreading the BS fast and thick about ‘Oh we cover the pre-existing conditions now’. Time to call your reps again.
AnonPhenom
@Ha ha haaaaa:
Why not? The View is wonderful!
Xenos
@The Moar You Know: You know what ‘Issa’ means in Arabic, right?
Are people aware that he is as much of an Arab as, say, Helen Thomas?
Ksmiami
@Raoul: Just think of the bright side – It kills off more of their voters than ours…
LAO
@JPL: eastern district, not southern district? I find that odd (jurisdictionally speaking). The inclusion of prosecutors means, in my experience, the use of subpoenas and empaneling a grand jury, so maybe yes.
Major Major Major Major
@Ksmiami: if I thought that people deserved to die as a result of their own idiocy then I’d be a republican.
efgoldman
@Redshift:
What they’ve been lying about is not the wish fulfillment of repeal, but that they had the simple competence, as the majority party with complete control, simply to write and pass a bill.
JPL
@LAO: Thanks. I thought that the admission that there was two, was interesting also.
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know: Awesome! Keep it up. I can’t wait to see that fool back in the private sector. It’s a dream, but someday I’d like to see San Diego 5 for 5 with its congressional delegation.
Ksmiami
@Major Major Major Major: I used to not feel this way, but you can’t protect people from their own spite and stupidity. If you voted for Trump you voted for:
-Punishing women, non-whites, non Christians and immigrants
-A belief that experts and science and knowledge aren’t valuable
-A belief that war is preferable to diplomacy
-A wall is the solution to complex challenges of a modern market economy
-Hatred and incitement to violence are ok in the public polity.
-The wealthiest Americans suffer so much having to pay a little more in taxes even though they benefit the most from America
And I should care about people who voted for this? Why?
TenguPhule
Yeah, I’m sure this is gonna end well.
And here comes the next Israeli-Palestinian War.
efgoldman
@Ksmiami:
You shouldn’t. I don’t
Fuckem
Iowa Old Lady
@Ksmiami: It kills off my nephew’s 8yo daughter who was born with a hole in her heart and related problems that limit her intellectual development. Once she’s too old to be on her parents’ insurance, she will never be able to afford to buy it. Maybe she can hold a bake sale.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: No, if you thought people deserved to die because of skin color, illness or not being the right religion, then you’d be a Republican.
ETA: Yes, I’m aware the full list is a lot longer, but I don’t want to break the blog.
Major Major Major Major
@Ksmiami: I think people should have health insurance regardless of how they vote.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: republicans also don’t believe in safety regulations. They think we should be able to sell sulfuric acid as a miracle cure and that the lady who gives it to her children for their cold can sue the manufacturer for her troubles. Democrats believe people shouldn’t die because of decisions like this, or because of who they vote for.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: Even when they vote to deprive others of health insurance?
Sometimes the Leopards have to be allowed to eat their faces.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
But that’s a luxury that can only be afforded when those same people aren’t in control and trying to kill all of us one way or another.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: even then, yes. We don’t have capital punishment for votes.
sharl
@LAO: For you or any other lawyers here who might know – is the Eastern District of Virginia (EDVA) still known as “the rocket docket”? And if so, does that fact have any potential significance as far as the Comey/DoJ stuff is concerned?
Archon
Babylon 5 is on go90, which made me think that if a future Earth was represented by people that had the same moral compass and ideology as today’s Republicans we truly would be the universe’s bad guys, in league with the shadows.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
Actually we do, the problem is is that the other side is always getting to decide who gets to die.
Guns control, Healthcare, Immigration, Taxes, Infrastructure, Environmental Protections.
Ksmiami
@Iowa Old Lady: As I said I feel horrible for the innocent victims that GOP policies will affect, but realistically it’s beyond horrific that we are again going back in time to fight the battles that should have stayed won. A decent healthcare plan for all Americans is not much to ask for, but here we are again. Next up, fighting to preserve contraception and legal abortion. Good times. NOT
randy khan
@Sloegin:
Yes, it’s important to keep calling. I called the R Rep who I can plausibly claim represents me yesterday and this morning (my real Rep is a solid D, and I will call him to thank him at some point, but it’s not as urgent).
LAO
@sharl: OMG, I’m such a jerky New Yorker. I assumed eastern district of ny, EDVa makes much more sense. Oops.
Raven Onthill
@Ksmiami: Because the rest of us are getting what they deserve.
les
@The Moar You Know:
Real curiosity: you think they’re a good influence? They’re essentially an insurance company at this point, and they were big supporters of George the Lesser’s Medicare Part D–donut hole and prohibition on negotiating drug prices and all. I’ve been tossing their stuff for a long time; should I look again?
TenguPhule
@Archon: Too late. We have already been Clarked.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule:
Let me guess, the solution is our side deciding that they need to die and then making it happen.
rikyrah
How the Right Wing Weaponizes ‘Identity Politics’
by Nancy LeTourneau May 3, 2017 2:35 PM
This morning I noticed that the conservative web site Real Clear Politics picked up a video clip of an interview by Jake Tapper with Bill Maher. They titled it, “Maher To Democrats: Ease Up On The Identity Politics, Obsessing Over ‘Pocahontas’ A Problem.”
I am no real fan of Maher. One of the things I’ve found most egregious about his commentary is when he uses women’s issues to further his Islamophobia by pointing a finger at Muslims and pretending that all of those problems have been put to rest in this country. That’s why I actually found this interview to be a bit of an improvement. In it, Maher acknowledges that misogyny played a role in the presidential election as well as with what’s going on at Fox News. He also applauded the Black Lives Matter movement. That’s major progress for him.
And yet…he had to inject the idea that Democrats need to get over what he calls “identity politics.” He notes that white people are still a majority in this country and that the Democrats need to look like they represent everybody, including white people. The interview ends with Maher suggesting that Democrats “obsess” over things like Trump calling Elizabeth Warren “Pocahontas.”
This is precisely how people like Maher allow conservative media to weaponize these narratives. It’s no accident that this one wound up on RCP. It helps convince white people that Democrats are obsessing over such things because even Bill Maher says so.
The truth is, Democrats do object to Trump using a racial slur to refer to a prominent female Senator. But it is a huge leap to suggest that anyone is obsessing over it. That is only one of many racist/sexist/outrageous things this president has said and done. No one has either the time or inclination to do more than call it out and move on to the next one.
Sometimes, instead of the phrase “identity politics,” we hear these concerns referred to as “cultural issues.” I wrote about that recently.
It is the right wing that frames Black Lives Matter as a threat to police officers and public safety. It is the right wing that frames immigrants as a threat to citizens. It is the right wing that frames women’s rights as a threat to men. And, as we are about to witness tomorrow, it is the right wing that frames the rights of LGBT as a threat to religious freedom. In other words, it is the right wing that frames these issues as simply “identity politics” that somehow pose a threat to white Christian heterosexual men.
trollhattan
Must read over at LGM as Limeaux does a compare-and-contrast between the below and the fed decision not to prosecute two Baton Rouge cops who shot a man dead just because. .
Sessions has me missing Ashcroft, bigly.
MaryL
@Chris:
The warlords could hypothetically be bought off to NOT cause tons and tons of human damage, so I guess I’d prefer them. This was pretty much the purpose of earmarks. Getting rid of them was probably one of the worst things to ever happen to American politics/policy.
Steeplejack (phone)
Wait, what?
Iowa Old Lady
@Ksmiami: I’m ordinarily in the “let Trump voters get what they deserve” camp, but health insurance touches us all, so on this one, I back off.
kindness
@Ha ha haaaaa: Still a Troll buddy. At least have some class unlike the Orange Shitgibbon in the White House.
Patricia Kayden
@Judge Crater: The party which wishes to force women to give birth doesn’t give a damn about American citizens getting access to healthcare. Their hypocrisy stinks. And if they pass the AHCA, it should take them down.
MaryL
@The Moar You Know:
Also, they have awesome travel discounts.
efgoldman
@Major Major Major Major:
Generally? Yes. That we are the only Western democracy arguing about this is ridiculous and shameful.
Specifically to the mouth breathing, knuckle dragging, racist, misogynistic, xenophobic, bible banging, flying monkeys?
Fuckem
The Moar You Know
@les: Great question. The answer is going to be: not always. They’re going to support olds at the expense of the young, if the legislation comes down that way. I don’t vote for that. But we are going to have four and likely eight years minimum of full bore assaults on every social welfare program the United States has, and the AARP is going to be against most of that. It is simply not in their member’s best interests.
Not at all.
Yes, they were. And they got it done. I don’t think that was a good idea but it beat the alternative. As a member, you influence them too. If you’re remotely of age I would do it. I hate to say this, but they get listened to in a way that the Democratic Party doesn’t. I consider my minimal investment in them well worth it. Can’t say that about most donations I’ve made to politicians.
Patricia Kayden
@Iowa Old Lady: I’ve read that passage of the AHCA will even impact those of us who are not impacted by the ACA. We’re all going to get screwed by this. I assume Congressional Republicans will find a way to exempt themselves.
?eric
@sharl: yes it is. ridiculously so.
Patricia Kayden
@Major Major Major Major: And that’s what happened with the ACA. Obama haters benefited from its passage even if they will never acknowledge this.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: It could be done legally while Democrats hold a majority.
Simply deep six federal funding to impossible to win red districts in red states. No Hurricane funding, no flood insurance, no tornado funds. Axe the bases, the weapons programs, all those federally dependent jobs. Republicans have already set the precedent by holding up emergency funds for natural disasters in blue states and targeting funding in blue and swing state districts.
Focus all efforts on rewarding the base instead.
Whether or not this strategy would be popular or successful is doubtful, but it is a possible solution. Not one I’d recommend as a first choice, but let’s not pretend its not an option.
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: It may well come to that. I feel very strongly this nation is very close to a civil war, a for-real one with shooting and everything. I hope I’m wrong. Because liberals will want to still be talking while they’re being rounded up and shot by the thousands.
Uncle Cosmo
@schrodingers_cat: “Unlimited Coprolite Cache” or somesuch?
Patricia Kayden
@Raoul: You are wise to be worried but I’m hoping that so many of us are making calls against the AHCA that Republicans get the message. They need to understand that their jobs are at risk if they pass that monstrosity. We can still win this battle.
rumpole
This is what I would tell a moderate R ‘critter I was responsible for. Next week, the CBO score comes out and if the brookings numbers are right it won’t be pretty. Plus, it’s during recess– they will get an earful. Those house members who voted for this will reap the whirlwind–on the hook for screwing “good” working people as well as “good” people with pre-existing conditions. If this leaves the Senate at all (not likely), it will have to be very different.
The attack ads write themselves. On the other hand, the president’s* approval ratings are in the toilet. The more contact people have with him, the lower it goes. He’s not going to cover you. And if they come after you from the right, it’s pretty easy to defend covering people’s health care in a swing district. You’re going to need that vote to protect yourself.
Someone please make the argument from the other side. I don’t see how this doesn’t cost them a whole mess of seats. It’s political suicide.
Please proceed.
Baud
What’s the point of debating what Democrats should do? We don’t control anything.
sharl
@LAO: Hah, I assumed EDVa, but I don’t know that for a fact.
ETA:
@?eric: Thanks!
Baud
@rumpole:
But her emails…
eemom
Whatever happened to Tuesdayin’ so slow….
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know: Wayne Pierre is already prepping the pumps in the NRA with “the real enemy within”. I’ve been mocked for pointing out that we really are heading into “Here be Dragons Country”
Not one of our checks and balances is uncompromised at this point. The Republicans consistently double down on the evil and stupid, Winger Lies are simply being reported as is by most of our lazy media.
The United States is suffering a serious drought of rationality and tolerence. And that’s a lot of dry tinder.
TenguPhule
@rumpole:
What’s worrying is when they really don’t seem to care about the upcoming elections.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Sitting here on the fence hoping that my brother in law who voted for Trump because his premiums went up under Obamacare, who has many prescriptions, gout, a missing eye from accidentally shooting it out and who hasn’t worked in years loses all of his coverage if this passes, and wanting to be a better person for the sake of his family. To be honest I would enjoy his difficulties.
TenguPhule
@Baud: Unfortunately, 46%+- of the public still hasn’t figured that out yet.
JPL
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:Just tell him to move to a state with better coverage.
lol
Trump lied has way throughout the primary, and he’ll continue doing so. He’ll tell your BIL that phase two will be better.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
I’ve said over and over that if the government ever did go fascist, the NRA types wouldn’t be La Résistance fighting it, they’d be the brownshirts volunteering to supplement state security and round up the undesirables.
Ksmiami
@TenguPhule: Agree and its easy since blue states literally fund the red states. No more
JPL
@sharl: It’s lucky that Clinton is not taking full responsibility for her loss, because MSM has an excuse not to talk about possible grand jury involvement.
Li'l Innocent
@Snarkworth, short-fingered Bulgarian: It’s that damn new Gregorian calendar.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
They’ve been delusional about the country as a whole really wanting their “program” adopted for years; why shouldn’t they be delusional about re-election, too?
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
We’ll see if that lasts. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them turn on each other and start making the kinds of threats that hoocoodanode crazies will act on.
SFAW
@hueyplong:
Thank FSM that YOU are not ungenerous.
TenguPhule
@Chris:
And ICE rounding up at will and all those cops shooting black males and waltzing away 9 times out of 10 are serving as perfect “How to” demonstrations that this time their time has finally come.
2016 votes are going to have lethal consequences for a lot of people.
Baud
@TenguPhule: None of those people are here. I was referring to the discussion in this thread. We have no control over whether the GOP kills people.
Yarrow
KEEP CALLING!
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: We hope they’re just delusional. But when your opponent has a track record of cheating…..
germy
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/joe-walsh-large-diverse-inner-city-populations-universal-health-care
TenguPhule
@Baud: Well, we do have the legislative filibuster. For however long it lasts.
But other then that, you’re right. If the Republicans ever manage to put aside their differences even temporarily, shit is fucked and a lot of people are gonna die as a result.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
A point Krugman made in “Conscience of a Liberal” is that a lot of the “vast right wing conspiracy” phenomenon consists of simply being a jobs program for loyal movement conservatives. If you’ve served the movement well, then even if you’re voted out, they’ll find a cushy spot for you on the board of a think tank, or as a ludicrously well paid talking head, or back in the private sector. Thus, even losing an election isn’t as big a deal as it might’ve been in another time, as long as you’ve been loyal. (If you haven’t, on the other hand…)
That doesn’t explain all, but I’m pretty sure it explains a lot.
It’s also one of the reasons why I don’t trust the moderates to hold the line. (Much of the point of the VRWC machine hasn’t even been about liberals, but just about enforcing ideological purity in their own party).
mdblanche
@Chris: And IIRC once the brownshirts had served their purpose they were promptly purged.
maryQ
I was never one of those Democrats who hoped Trump got the nomination because even though I never really believed he could win, I just didn’t trust the electorate enough to be secure in that. I feel the same way about this. Yes, I would LOVE to see this hung around the neck of any endangered Republican. But…her emails.
Baud
@TenguPhule: If this bill is filibusterable, it will be filibustered.
(If it makes it to the Senate.)
SFAW
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Well, how about if YOU be the “better person” part of the equation, and WE will balance it out by proxy-hoping your brother gets fucked over eight ways from Sunday. And all of us will swear that you were SHOCKED that anyone here would wish him ill.
OK, the grammar or syntax ain’t that great, but I think you get the nub of my gist.
Baud
@Chris: I agree.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
One can only hope. Remember, vote suppression is high on the agenda. There’s a reason they put Sessions at the DOJ.
ruemara
@The Moar You Know: Maybe a specific set. Not this one. I’m in the “let them suffer what they wanted for me” camp. We’re proactive after being constantly hurt.
Ohio Mom
@Iowa Old Lady: Hopefully there will still be SSI and Medicaid for your nephew’s daughter with DD (developmental disability) when she ages out of your nephew’s insurance coverage.
As an adult, she can still qualify even if she is able to earn some money; these programs recognize that disability is a continuum.
It’s a complicated system and I hope your nephew has consulted an attorney versed in disability law. It is never too early to make sure you have arranged things in a way that will allow your loved one to obtain the supports they need and deserve.
At least this is all what I am counting on for my kid, and what inspires me to keep calling my MoCs, even when I am tired of doing so.
TenguPhule
@maryQ: I was queried by a mailer from the DNC at the start of election season. I honestly thought Bush was the greatest threat when I filled it out. And I learned I was so badly badly wrong.
Ksmiami
@TenguPhule: don’t forget our bloated military death machine that is 10X larger than any other country on earth. We could literally take a 5% budget cut from there, fund every other program except for SS and Medicare, rebuild American infrastructure and we wouldn’t notice any decline in military readiness etc
TenguPhule
@Baud: And having to trust in Mcconnell to not be a complete and total bastard on it is not designed to help us sleep at night.
The Moar You Know
@germy: This is the guy who got himself elected to Congress so he could get out of having to pay child support. A real winner, that one.
SFAW
@germy:
YAFA heard from. I hope his kids — the ones he refused to pay child support for — beat the shit out of him, daily, when they get big enough.
Actually FORMER Rep Walsh, it’s fucking deadbeats like you and Shitgibbon that are the problem
Ksmiami
@TenguPhule: Yes – literally the GOP is a death cult pretending to be “Christian”.
Baud
@TenguPhule: I don’t trust McConnell at all.
Yarrow
I just called D.C. office for local GOP congressman. They answered, so I guess they’re still working the phones there even though it’s after 5:00 p.m. Keep calling.
Edit: If you’ve called already today, use the AARP number listed in a comment above and call again. This is an age tax. Use that phrase when you call. Old people are good voters.
TenguPhule
@Ksmiami: The Pentagon can’t even account for over 15% of their own budget. Lots of money apparently just vanishes into thin air.
maryQ
@TenguPhule: Yes, because in the end, “normal” Republicans came home, and supported the sexual assaulting nationalist authoritarian as if he were Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio. Because Republicans always come home.
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
Are you trying to tell us that 10 percent don’t waltz away? I must not be paying attention very well.
germy
@The Moar You Know: Life’s been good to him so far.
Yarrow
@Baud: McConnell is slimy but he knows how to count votes and twist arms. If this gets to the Senate I wouldn’t put it past him to find the votes for it somehow. They want their tax cuts.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
I think you were probably right. ?jeb? would have been competent at basic governing, and wouldn’t have been a laughing stock that everybody thought they could play or ignore. While i don’t think he has fascist tendencies, remembering his years as governor of Florida, he’d have been happy to immisserate a lot of people.
Baud
@Yarrow: Agreed. He’s good at his job, unlike Paul Ryan.
Timurid
I called my guy. In this district he probably won’t care, but whatever…
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
He should probably do a practice run, first. Preferably in a remote part of the Mojave.
Yarrow
Latest:
Wouldn’t surprise me if they actually broke kneecaps.
TenguPhule
@SFAW: Dumped into a bad nursing home should be punishment enough. He would die from neglect in his own bodily fluids over several days following weeks or months of mistreatment.
TenguPhule
@SFAW: Bottle of crude oil optional?
/Yay movie reference!
Archon
@Chris:
Couldn’t agree more. These guys fantasize about being a paramilitary group charged with “urban pacification” of poorly armed blacks, not taking on the U.S government as an insurgent.
TenguPhule
@SFAW: They nailed the back shooter on civil rights charges after the state mistrial. Life in prison is the probable sentence, even minimum is 20 years in Club Fed.
Ksmiami
@maryQ: @TenguPhule: I think the worst is yet to come. I foresee three outcomes:
1: Mediocre presidency leads to rebalancing in senate and house
2: Effect of diminished government leads to diminished America, recession and out-migration. Nation becomes whiter and poorer over time. Even wealthy people affected negatively
3: blunder into world war conflagration
efgoldman
@Yarrow:
Granny Starver isn’t (and doesn’t have in the “leadership”) DeLay the insect guy. There’s pretty much nothing with which he can threaten the recalcitrant reps.
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
Although I don’t necessarily disagree with your proposal — at least not the consequences — that his children will not get some level of personal satisfaction (as opposed to someone else doing it for them) from your plan is troubling. Will no one think of the children?
And if they don’t want to do it themselves, I expect there’d be a shitload of real Americans who will be happy to sub for them.
Yarrow
@efgoldman: Do not underestimate what a Republican might do to get tax cuts.
TenguPhule
@Ksmiami: Doesn’t even have to come to that.
We lose our transportation network (sea and land) for bulk shipping either due to neglect or sabotage even for a few days or weeks and that’s all she wrote. One major breakdown and three missed meals away from complete civil breakdown.
zhena gogolia
@Mary G:
they connected me to the wrong rep.
SFAW
@TenguPhule:
He’ll get out for “time served,” once the Malignant Malevolent Leprechaun steps in.
Yarrow
@zhena gogolia: It worked for me. Did you type your correct zip code? I got a choice of two for my zip code, and the one I picked was the one I was connected to.
zhena gogolia
@Yarrow:
I live in a zip code that is divided between two representatives for some incomprehensible reason. They asked me to press 1 for De Lauro, then it connected me to John Larson.
TenguPhule
@SFAW: Yeah, a presidential pardon would be the ultimate middle finger to Democrats and black people.
I would not be able to blame anyone for rioting if that happens.
Roger Moore
@germy:
So the Republicans would be for it if they could redefine “universal” to mean “all white people”.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: Trump on the other hand, would threaten them and their families. He has a history of doing that.
Iowa Old Lady
@Ohio Mom: Thanks for this info. The people voting for this are monsters.
GregB
Second active shooter on a college campus in Texas this week.
The problem appears to be not enough guns.
I am proposing a lunch lady militia.
germy
@Roger Moore: You’ve hit the nail on the head.
TenguPhule
@GregB:
Those ladles are lethal!
TenguPhule
Sigh, can’t blame this one on Wilmer-bros.
I know she’s a smart cookie, but that was tactical and strategic malpractice at a mindboggling level.
Chris
@Roger Moore:
Oh yeah.
This is where European fascists and American right wingers’ politics meet. The former claim to be communitarians who think the government should help its people weather the vicissitudes of life, but in practice, balk at government assistance that would include immigrants and nonwhites in that “its people.” The latter claim to be individualists who think men should rise and fall on their own merits and it’s no concern of the government’s if you’re having trouble finding food or health care, but in practice,balk at government cuts that would hurt their benefits.
At the end of the day, what both of them believe in is socialism for white people and social darwinism for everyone else, even if they wouldn’t say it that way.
efgoldman
@SFAW:
He has zero influence over the federal judge
Steeplejack (phone)
@TenguPhule:
The lunches often are!
patroclus
Either they get the votes by tomorrow or the whole thing is over. This is the critical day! The next 24 hours may determine whether the ACA survives. If we can stop it now, it may be stopped completely. For the sake of the lives of 24 million people, and millions of potential bankruptcies because of health related expenses, please call your Congressman today or tomorrow. Don’t just “put it off” until another day. Do it.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: A Pardon once sentenced.
Is he vile enough to do it? You tell me.
Roger Moore
@SFAW:
Siberia would be closer.
Barbara
@Ksmiami: Outmigration where exactly?
TenguPhule
@Steeplejack (phone): I resent that remark, I lived on school lunches from grade school through college.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore: Hypothermia features a loss of pain before death. Dehydration and heat stroke don’t.
/And now you know! And knowing is half the battle!
Roger Moore
@GregB:
Oddly, campus carry has resulted in more campus shootings rather than fewer. Hoocoodanode?!
efgoldman
@Barbara:
Over there someplace
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
No wonder you have violence fantasies
patroclus
It’s currently 19 “No” votes and 8 undecided according to the “public” Whip counts. It’s very close. A lot of Republicans are expecting to go home tomorrow, but the Rules Committee is going to wait around until the Whips determine whether they have the votes. It is completely up in the air as of now, and the next 24 hours may decide it.
TenguPhule
@patroclus:
Let’s not lie to ourselves here. We live to fight another day.
Yarrow
@zhena gogolia: That’s like me. I think there are several zip codes in my district and the neighboring districts. It’s crazy. Maybe press 2 instead of 1? Oh well, it’s just a tool. We can always call directly. I call on different phones to mix it up.
Steeplejack (phone)
@TenguPhule:
Actually, I have good memories of school lunches, but that was way back in the ’60s, when Republicans believed in funding things.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
Yeah. I remember when March was supposed to be “stopped completely…”
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: It was that or starve. I learned not to be too picky. Unless it was Mexican. Beans disagree with me more then you do.
Patricia Kayden
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: You’re just being honest. It really doesn’t matter whether we have sympathy for Trump voters or not, if the AHCA passes, they’re screwed along with the rest of us. It’s frustrating that so many of our fellow Americans voted for a party which promised to repeal the ACA. They’re going to learn the hard way that elections have consequences if that monstrosity is passed.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
Obviously I need to up my game
TenguPhule
@Chris: “We’re not gonna vote on it”
Yeah, we all saw how that promise went.
patroclus
@TenguPhule: Fine. Don’t call or care. It’s just 24 million lives. Keep talking about your school lunches while you were in grade school.
mai naem mobile
@TenguPhule: I don’t know what context she’s saying it in but,honestly, I agree with her. I think there’a several reasons: unmarried women having babies doesn’t have the stigma it used to, plan b being available, what looks like boy crying wolf from pro-choice(it isn’t) when access is still available but with increased limits and, lastly, I think a lot of people think that a red stater will always be able to a blue state to obtain an abortion. I don’t agree but the right to abortions has turned into something where a lot of people won’t realize it’s importance until the right to an abortion is lost.
Patricia Kayden
@patroclus:
That would be perfect. Trump has no shame but I assume Ryan has enough shame to be embarrassed at this failure to repeal the ACA after the House Republicans voted for its repeal scores of time under President Obama.
TenguPhule
@patroclus: I care, but don’t pretend we’re not going to have to keep doing this until the Republican Majority in government is no more. We can’t afford to lie to ourselves.
DougJ
@schrodingers_cat:
Thank you
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@TenguPhule: the passivity about Merrick Garland in real time, the failure of the SC as an election issue on our side since– AFAICT–1992 and relative non-response to Gorsuch suggests she ain’t wrong. See also, PA, OH, FL and WI Senate races. I hope she is and all that energy and passion is just dormant
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden:
Why? The first two didn’t stop him.
patroclus
@TenguPhule: Let’s not lie to ourselves – those school lunches when you were in grade school and criticizing me are much more important than health insurance for 24 million people. Go ahead and ridicule me all day long – there’s always another day for you to care about health insurance for sick people. Have a nice day – it’s clear that this is not the day for me to be here at BJ.
Patricia Kayden
Ben Carson is worried that public housing might be too comfortable for the poors. Because we have to treat poor people like crap to get them off their butts, you know.
Patricia Kayden
@TenguPhule: You’ve got me there.
efgoldman
@Patricia Kayden:
They would never admit it, but they kept doing that because they knew it would never pass the senate, or if it did, Obama would veto it and they never had the votes to override.
Baud
@Patricia Kayden: Do the apartments come with T-Bone steaks?
rp
@germy: He’s 100% right! If those benefits didn’t have to go to the “diverse” members of our society, we’d have had universal healthcare decades ago.
Patricia Kayden
@efgoldman: Yep. Obstructionists who can’t govern even though they have the entire Federal government in their control. Pathetic.
efgoldman
@Patricia Kayden:
The “president” actually found someone dumber than he is to take a cabinet post. Do you know how difficult that was? Who knew?
efgoldman
@Baud:
Lobster claws and T bones.
No meat, just the shells and bones.
Chris
@TenguPhule:
Yep.
Paul Ryan is a religious fanatic (whose religion happens to be Randian capitalism, not Christianity), as he’s made abundantly clear. This isn’t about greed or political calculus for him – he honestly believes that poor people should be hurting, he’s believed in it ever since he was a college student wondering what to do with his life, and he’s now so close to the kind of poor-kicking act he’s dreamed of his whole life that he can almost taste it. He’s going to move heaven and earth to try and make it happen.
@efgoldman:
That’s the thing: for many of them, yes, that’s why they went along, but there were also all the Randroids who really wanted to make it happen who are fanatically trying to make it happen now, and it’s left the moderates between a rock and a hard place. I’d like to think enough of them will hold the line, but I stopped trusting GOP moderation a long time ago.
TenguPhule
@patroclus: I’ve found the mythical unicorn of purity issues! And then its gone.
Patricia Kayden
@Baud: LOL!! And cadillacs and caviar. Funny how little empathy Carson feels for the poor even though he grew up in poverty with a single mother.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden: It says something that I’m not even surprised at this point. I’m not sure exactly what it says, but I doubt its good.
Roger Moore
@Patricia Kayden:
Exactly. Poor people must be punished so they can see the error of their ways in being poor. Meanwhile, rich people must be rewarded every time they do something remotely decent in the hopes they’ll want to do it again.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman:
The Pyramids as grain silos was pretty much close to impossible to top. Trump knew he’d found his man then.
Patricia Kayden
@efgoldman: And a brain surgeon at that.
Barbara
@TenguPhule: Here are some reasons why abortion as an issue has receded: A huge percentage, probably at least 75% and maybe more, of abortions occur during the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, and an ever higher percentage of those are medically induced abortions that do not require women to go anywhere besides their doctor’s office. OTC pregnancy tests have now become super sensitive, so it is also easier to determine whether you are pregnant, without having to resort to a doctor. My sense is that fewer women (not none by any means) are being caught off guard with very little time to act, which used to be quite common. There have been some efforts to regulate medical abortions but these have been weak and hard to enforce. I believe in access to abortion without stigma, but as contraception improves and medical practice makes abortion more private, it seems less urgent.
TenguPhule
@Patricia Kayden: All ladders must be pulled up behind them. Its the Republican way.
No ladders left behind.
TenguPhule
@Barbara: Kentucky is 6 months away from becoming the first state where you literally can’t get an abortion unless you DIY and risk getting arrested. The last and only clinic there is fighting for its life in court, decision due in Sept.
Patricia Kayden
@SenyorDave: Encouraging physical assaults of protesters worked so well for Trump that I assume Republicans running for office feel the need to mimic their president and assault critics themselves.
ruemara
@Patricia Kayden: Sometimes, the saved are the worst of the oppressors.
Barbara
@TenguPhule: I know. I am trying to explain the perception that it doesn’t seem urgent to many people.
efgoldman
@Chris:
Oh, I don’t either. It’s not a question of trust, it’s a question of self-interest, especially the ones from districts HRC won or finished very close.
TenguPhule
@Barbara: I wish they’d realize its a lot easier to keep a right in place then it is to have to get it back.
TenguPhule
@efgoldman: The problem is the Republican definition of self-interest is using an entirely different dictionary that didn’t translate well from the original Russian.
john fremont
@Yarrow: Congress will be covered for a pre existing condition like broken kneecaps if this goes through . The rest of us no.
J R in WV
@LAO:
Probably Eastern District of VA, not Southern District of NY… but just a guess, I’m always willing to show how little I really know.
Roger Moore
@Patricia Kayden:
I think this highlights a big blind spot many people with empathy have: they assume that suffering gives others empathy. In reality, people who don’t have empathy won’t suddenly get some because they or somebody they know has suffered. A classic case is the assumption that members of some ethnic group that was discriminated against but now has power should want to use that power to protect other groups being discriminated against today. In practice, they’re at least as likely to decide it’s their turn to do the discriminating.
In Carson’s case, he feels- with considerable justification- that he managed to work his way out of poverty through hard work. Rather than retaining empathy for other people who were as poor as he was, he looks down on them for lacking his work ethic. If he managed to escape poverty through hard work, they should be able to do the same. Their failure to do as well as he did isn’t proof that his expectations are unreasonable; it’s proof that those other people lack sufficient work ethic.
Chyron HR
@TenguPhule:
I bet Pelosi wishes that too, but it doesn’t change the fact that a majority of women either don’t bother voting to defend their reproductive rights or actively vote to have them taken away.
Ksmiami
@Barbara: Canada, China etc. esp a lot of our recent tech immigrants. Their skills are needed and rewarded in other countries. It’s already happening in STEM.
liberal
@TenguPhule: heh!
LurkerNoLonger
@Patricia Kayden: Empathy is not in the republican dictionary.
Goku
@Chyron HR: The trouble is it isn’t framed that way. I can’t tell you how many girls my age (22) feel that abortion is evil and kills babies because they’re shallow. They, like many other people, are easily influenced by simplistic emotional arguments
J R in WV
@Patricia Kayden:
I believe you are correct. Unlike the ACA which specifically requires members of Congress and their staff to obtain health insurance on the exchange(s), the new bill allows the rich and powerful in DC to skim the cream, and keep it all.
Miss Bianca
@Mike J: too late : (
Hyperion
re: I’m still hoping they have a vote tomorrow, that lots of Republicans from swing districts walk the plan and vote for the piece of shit, and then the smarter ones come in a neas and defeat it.
translation?
J R in WV
@Baud:
Sure, T-Bone steaks every night.
And Cadillac LowRiders!
tybee
@Uncle Cosmo:
that’s the one