Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

Something needs to be done about our bogus SCOTUS.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

The willow is too close to the house.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

You can’t love your country only when you win.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / And So it Begins: Ratfucking the Second Round of the French Election

And So it Begins: Ratfucking the Second Round of the French Election

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Reuters reports:

A large trove of emails from the campaign of French presidential candidate Emmanuel Macron was posted online late on Friday, 1-1/2 days before voters go to the polls to choose the country’s next president in a run-off against far-right rival Marine Le Pen.

Some nine gigabytes of data were posted by a user called EMLEAKS to Pastebin, a document-sharing site that allows anonymous posting. It was not immediately clear who was responsible for posting the data or if any of them were genuine.

In a statement, Macron’s political movement En Marche! (Onwards!) confirmed that it had been hacked.

“The En Marche! Movement has been the victim of a massive and co-ordinated hack this evening which has given rise to the diffusion on social media of various internal information,” the statement said.

An interior ministry official declined to comment, citing French rules which forbid any commentary liable to influence an election, and which took effect at midnight French time on Friday (2200 GMT).

Comments about the email dump began to appear on Friday evening just hours before the official ban on campaigning began. The ban is due to stay in place until the last polling stations close on Sunday at 8 p.m. (1800 GMT).

Is Wikileaks involved? Of course Wikileaks is involved!

And so are the trolls for lulz crowd at 4Chan:

And the Le Pen campaign is exploiting the work of the 4chan folks:

Broaderick covered a different attempted social media driven scandal attack on Macron last week.

The thread was started by a Swedish user who asked members of the community if they could help him create memes and misinformation about Emmanuel Macron that could then be translated and spread across the web.

The original poster suggested they focus on a narrative that Emmanuel Macron was secretly sleeping with his wife’s 30-year-old daughter, Tiphaine Auzière.

An American user then appeared in the thread and put in a photo of Auzière superimposed over Macron, writing “something to start memeing about.”

The memes were intended to create a false sense of support for Le Pen among liberal social justice communities.

Lovely…

Reuters is also reporting that Macron is leading Le Pen going into the last 36 hours or so before the polls open.

An Ifop-Fiducial survey on Friday afternoon, hours before official campaigning closed at midnight, showed Macron on course to win 63 percent of votes in the second round and Le Pen 37 percent, the best score for Macron recorded by a major polling organization since mid-April.

Four other polls earlier in the day put the centrist on 62 percent and Le Pen on 38 percent, and a fifth showed Macron on 61.5 percent, as his second-round campaign gained ground following a stuttering start last week.

Pollsters said Macron had been boosted by his performance in a rancorous final televised debate between the two contenders on Wednesday, which the centrist was judged by French viewers to have won, according to two surveys.

It is likely that these late revelations are intended to dirty up Macron and make weaken him should he win, rather than swing the election to Le Pen. The latter, given the gap in the polling seems unlikely to happen. Regardless, we’ll have updates on Sunday once the returns are in.

Stay frosty!

Reader Interactions

290Comments

  1. 1.

    Robin G.

    1) I kinda like that French blackout idea.
    2) Is there any real way to combat this aside from developing a “left” hacking team to retaliate? Mutually-assured destruction?
    3) Let’s pray France is smarter than we are.

  2. 2.

    marcion

    The old saying is, “once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action”.

    I’m willing to downgrade “enemy action” to 2 in this case.

  4. 4.

    debbie

    Umm, Mr. Comey:

    An interior ministry official declined to comment, citing French rules which forbid any commentary liable to influence an election, and which took effect at midnight French time on Friday (2200 GMT).

  5. 5.

    rumpole

    It’s an act of warfare. I hope they make every toilet in the kremlin flush at once.

  8. 8.

    Gin & Tonic

    I sure hope Julian enjoys his digs, because one foot on the sidewalk, and he’s history.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    Hopefully, the French will stand up for their sovereignty better than white voters in the Midwest did.

  11. 11.

    JMG

    Since we are a puppet government of Russia, I don’t expect any inquiry, let alone action, by the US.

  12. 12.

    Jeffro

    @rumpole: I agree with the first comment and hope for somewhat stronger sanctions than those proposed in the second comment.

    But this is indeed war .

  13. 13.

    debbie

    This is really a pity. She came off badly in the debate, and I’d hate to think this will help her.

  15. 15.

    Jeffro

    The leaders of the Western democracies might want to think about some sort of coordinated campaign to start like, oh, yesterday to explain to their citizens the nature of the threat they are facing.

    Someone witty on Twitter said “at this point I couldn’t vote for someone who WASN’T hacked”. That’s actually about right – and maybe one of the best ways to slow or stop these clowns

  16. 16.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    Hey Adam, Keith Olbermann is claiming that Comey’s testimony hints at an already convened Grand Jury investigating Trump.

  17. 17.

    germy

    New documentary out on Julian. He is asked about his legal troubles. He blames them on the feminist movement.

  18. 18.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Robin G.:

    No chance of a decent “left” cyber team against a state-backed hacking campaign.

    Snowjob gutted the US ability to track down malignant foreign-backed cyber manipulators. That was the whole point from the very beginning. Bronies, cosplayers, neckbeards all fell for it, hook, line and sinker.

  19. 19.

    Ladyraxterinok

    I do not see how a modern, open, democratic society protects itself against this type of attack. We need a new type of citizen education/training.

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Robin G.: Yes there is. Last years National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) signed into law on 6 DEC set aside a decent chunk of money to set up a program to combat this. The money has not started flowing, and given the current administration, I doubt it will.

  21. 21.

    germy

    Representative Swalwell appeared on CNN today with host Brianna Keilar, who asked him what he’s seen to make him believe that the Trump campaign actively colluded with Russia. Her question: “Do you believe that there’s fire here?” Eric Swalwell’s response: “Yes I do, and I have seen the evidence on the unclassified and classified side”.

    When pressed as to why he’s so certain, he added for emphasis: “It’s the evidence that I’ve reviewed on the classified side.”

  22. 22.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @rumpole: It’s an act of warfare. I hope they make every toilet in the kremlin flush at once.

    and fill their trees with underwear

  25. 25.

    GregB

    Do we know if Macron ordered any cheese pizza?

    Fuck A**ange. Fascist rat-fucker.

  27. 27.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Adam L Silverman: you are shattering my faith in internet information. Next you’re going to tell me that efgoldman isn’t really a curmudgeon.

  30. 30.

    Tokyokie

    I’m sure glad that the U.S. party of traditional values has chosen these pond scum as their preferred playmates. I wonder whether the Founding Fathers possibly could have conceived of a day when the government they established would be completely controlled by the underlings of violent, foreign mobsters.

  32. 32.

    efgoldman

    @JMG:

    I don’t expect any inquiry, let alone action, by the US.

    I expect information has already been shared with the Surete, or whoever the appropriate authority is.

  33. 33.

    efgoldman

    @Jeffro:

    The leaders of the Western democracies might want to think about some sort of coordinated campaign to start like, oh, yesterday

    I’m a little surprised that nobody has figured out some kind of virus or trojan to send back.
    Isn’t that what twelve year olds are for?

  34. 34.

    Jewish Steel

    I wonder what future presidential candidates, your Gillibrands , Bookers and whatnot, are doing right now to protect themselves from this kind of attack

  36. 36.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: A friend sent me the Olbermann video. It summarizes compactly some of the rumors flying around the internet. There are several people, some of whom Olbermann mentions, who, IMHO, have one or two reliable contacts who feed them bits of information. Those Olbermann sources then wrap a great deal of speculation and a fair bit of BS around those bits of information and breathlessly tweet them out.

    I watch some of those people to see what they’re saying, but I NEVER retweet them or link to them because I think, overall, they are unreliable. The Comey quote that Olbermann cites is suggestive but does not confirm the claim that grand juries are looking into the Russian connections or that warrants have been issued.

    That said, something seems to be going on in the eastern district of Virginia. And, as far as I’m concerned, that’s all we know about that.

  40. 40.

    Chris

    It is likely that these late revelations are intended to dirty up Macron and make weaken him should he win, rather than swing the election to Le Pen.

    Yeah, I remember when Comey and the MSM thought the same thing of Hillary’s emails…

  43. 43.

    JMG

    I don’t think this will have much practical effect on the French election, except maybe to hurt LePen. The French seem to have made up their minds.

  45. 45.

    germy

    @JMG: Is the French media as stupid and gullible as ours? Is there a French equivalent of the nytimes for example?

  46. 46.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Here’s another awesome prediction – if/when 2018 looks like a liberal wave in the House, they’ll go overdrive on destruction and Trump protection. They’ll even go into session in the lame duck period to enact massive protection. I guess I’ll brace for violence.

    Maybe even supplement my firearm collection.

  48. 48.

    Chris

    @Jeffro:

    The leaders of the Western democracies might want to think about some sort of coordinated campaign to start like, oh, yesterday to explain to their citizens the nature of the threat they are facing.

    Unfortunately, we can’t count on this happening in America until at least 2020.

    But as someone mentioned above, I would hope the French – and Germans, and other NATO members – have a better sense of sovereignty than that. Shit, reviving the fear of Russian hostility might even help blunt the appeal of the Le Pen crowd. Not every right winger is a white nationalist scumbag who places his vision of White Racial Solidarity above his own country. Not over there, at least.

  49. 49.

    LurkerNoLonger

    Since when did emails become the new “dead hooker”? Also fuck Assange. Also too: it’s interesting that the bad guys have such hack-free email accounts. Also three: fuck Assange again.

  50. 50.

    Betty Cracker

    I did not enjoy J. Franzen’s “Purity,” but in retrospect, I do like the part where the Assange-based character flung himself off a cliff and perished on the rocks below.

  53. 53.

    Adam L Silverman

    @efgoldman: DGSE
    http://www.defense.gouv.fr/english/dgse/tout-le-site/who-we-are

    The DGSE is a state Service under the direct authority of the executive power and operates within a very strict legal and deontological framework.

    The DGSE’s activities, defined by the Political Authorities, are exclusively tasked to protect French interests. Its activities particularly contribute to protecting French citizens anywhere in the world. For this particular mission, the DGSE closely works with all the national security services.

    Its scope of action mainly takes place outside France’s borders, using clandestine research methods.

    The DGSE has several characteristics. It is at the same time:

    An external Intelligence Service, collecting secret information abroad that concerns national security. By communicating collected elements to the Authorities, DGSE actively participates in the decision-making process. The DGSE is present, of course, in crises theatres and where French interests are at risk.

    A Special Service enabling a presence where Diplomatic channels can no longer be applied. Keeping the means deployed and the targeted objectives secret also guarantees the security of our agents.

    An Integrated Service, contrary to other western Intelligence Services, DGSE masters all the intelligence collecting methods: human sources (HUMINT), technical sensors (SIGINT and satellite imagery), operational means and open-source processing. Intelligence collected through collaboration with other Services, national and foreign, is positively increasing.

  60. 60.

    Tilda Swintons Bald Cap

    Just posted up at the AP:

    The outgoing White House also became concerned about the Trump team’s handling of classified information. After learning that highly sensitive documents from a secure room at the transition’s Washington headquarters were being copied and removed from the facility, Obama’s national security team decided to only allow the transition officials to view some information at the White House, including documents on the government’s contingency plans for crises.

  62. 62.

    Chris

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    I do not see how a modern, open, democratic society protects itself against this type of attack. We need a new type of citizen education/training.

    It’s not that hard, speaking in absolute terms. During the Cold War, it was well known that communist parties and the circles around them were being used by Moscow to try to penetrate the Western political system. The consensus from both center left and center right was to hold the line against that at all costs. That needn’t mean actual illegal tactics (though it unfortunately went into that), but using every political trick in the book to beat them and presenting a united front based on the agreement that it was unacceptable for the communists to gain power is completely fair.

    It’s a matter of political will. The problem arises when, as with the days of Vichy and the lead-up to WW2, a sizable portion even of the political “mainstream” hates the rest of its citizens more than it does the enemies of the nation.

  66. 66.

    Chris

    @Tokyokie:

    I wonder whether the Founding Fathers possibly could have conceived of a day when the government they established would be completely controlled by the underlings of violent, foreign mobsters.

    They might have, actually.

    Wasn’t one of the original foreign policy issues in early America about relations with France and Britain at the time of the wars? IIRC, the Federalists were more pro-British, the Jeffersonians were more pro-French, and each side saw its leaders accused of being agents of their preferred foreign power, plotting to return British rule to America/to install a Jacobin dictatorship.

  72. 72.

    Chris

    @patrick II:

    It’s at least three, Merkel has had her email hacked too.

    Isn’t it at least four? I don’t recall if any hacking took place, but I seem to remember Assange supporting the FN or UKIP equivalent in Australia, too.

    @JMG:

    I don’t think this will have much practical effect on the French election, except maybe to hurt LePen. The French seem to have made up their minds.

    I’d like to think that at this point, enough hacks have occurred that it might begin to backfire. With people who see this going “fuck the Russians, we’re not letting them tell us what to do” rather than being outraged at the leaks.

  74. 74.

    GregB

    So, it seems pretty untenable that A**ange gets to use an embassy as a platform to launch information warfare on multiple nation states.

  75. 75.

    Adam L Silverman

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: Also, how dumb is Flynn that the former director of DIA, and a retired 3 star Army Intel officer had no idea we do routine, standing collection on Russian government officials.

  80. 80.

    SFAW

    @Baud:

    I assumed you were a DougJ sock puppet.

    Actually, we’re all DougJ sock puppets.

    Except for you, of course.

  81. 81.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Adam L Silverman: There are so many things that just don’t make sense, and this is one of them. I can make some sense out of it via his arrogance: He had been head of DIA, he knew how to handle things so he wouldn’t get burned. This is, of course, precisely the attitude that gets a person into BIG trouble.

    ETA: Or possibly he has been moving into some sort of dementia for some time now.

    ETA2: Or, MUCH more speculatively, Trump told him it was all fine and he would take care of anything that arose once he was in office.

  82. 82.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: There is documented interference in Brexit. A failed coup in Montenegro. Years long hacking of the Danish Ministry of Defense. Interference in the Dutch elections. Etc…

  83. 83.

    TenguPhule

    @GregB: If the embassy refuses to give him up, a declaration of war on his host seems to be in order.

    Its not like they have a military that could stop us.

  86. 86.

    HeleninEire

    @Adam L Silverman: Comey (as acting AG) hired Patrick Fitzgerald (then the US Attorney in Chicago) to investigate George Bush and the Valerie Plame investigation. We all thought Karl Rove would go to jail. Yeah, no.

  87. 87.

    Uncle Cosmo

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Here’s another awesome prediction – if/when 2018 looks like a liberal wave in the House, they’ll go overdrive on destruction and Trump protection. They’ll even go into session in the lame duck period to enact massive protection.

    I mentioned something similar a few threads down: Once they’ve been voted out of power, there’s nothing to restrain the Greedy Old Plutocrats from activating a “Doomsday Device” during a lame-duck session. I refer to a laundry list of legislation designed to blatantly loot the Treasury & generally throw sand in the gears & sugar in the gas tank of the Federal government to make it impossible for the Democrats to govern. The kind of stuff they’ve lusted after for decades but don’t dare file, let alone pass, for fear of retribution at the polls.

  88. 88.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Wow.

    Speaking of Montenegro, has there been a thread on their decision to join NATO? I didn’t even realize it was happening until the day of, seems to have slipped under the media’s radar…

  89. 89.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: Le Pen stated in Wednesday’s debate that she knew something was coming, but she wouldn’t say what. I’m sure the DGSE will be looking into how she knew that.

  90. 90.

    germy

    Watching “Avalanche Sharks” on our antenna TV.

    After a snowboarder inadvertently starts a major avalanche, the moving snowfield uncovers and wakes a prehistoric “snow shark” which had been trapped beneath. The shark develops an appetite for human flesh and the staff at the Twin Pines Ski Resort begins getting reports of missing people and strange finned creatures moving under the snow. Fearing financial loss on what is their busiest event day of the year, the Bikini Snow Day, the Twin Pines management tries to hide news of the missing skiers and sightings of strange creatures. Disaster strikes as the bikini-clad snow bunnies one-by-one become meals for the shark. The avalanche has cut off the roads trapping all within the Twin Pines Valley. The local sheriff allies with snowboarders to track down the monster.

    It’s somehow relevant to what’s happening in the world.

  94. 94.

    Gvg

    @Adam L Silverman: it was a false hope that let us down. Around 2005 lefty’s like us fell for a lot of rumors that some important Bush cabinet members would be indicted for actions outing Plame by Patric Fitzgerald. It was supposed to happen just before Christmas. Our biases made us fall for an unrealistic hope. What it means is yet another example of it it seems too good to be true, don’t count on it.

  95. 95.

    geg6

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Same shit the Dolt 45 team pulled. It’s a carbon copy of the attack on Hillary. Thankfully, I think the French people are vastly more intelligent and savvy than Americans are.

  97. 97.

    Chris

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Don’t blame you. Was just checking to see if there’d been something I’d missed. As I said, commentary in general media has been pretty thin.

  99. 99.

    Lurking Canadian

    @Jeffro:

    The leaders of the Western democracies might want to think about some sort of coordinated campaign to start like, oh, yesterday to explain to their citizens the nature of the threat they are facing.

    This. Fuck I’m so tired of everything being known by everybody EXCEPT THE VOTERS WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SOVEREIGN! We only get one chance in four or five or six years to have a say in matters. Wouldn’t it be nice if our masters let us know what the fuck is going on before we vote?

  101. 101.

    GregB

    @Chris:

    Trump opposes this. Bannon said there’s already to many ‘Negroes in the West. It’s like a Goddamn Camp of Saints already.

  102. 102.

    Chris

    @Gvg:

    More generally, “if it means Republicans doing the right thing even if it harms a member of their party, don’t count on it.” This increasingly seems to include Republicans even in positions that are supposed to be apolitical.

  106. 106.

    Steve in the ATL

    @geg6:

    I think the French people are vastly more intelligent and savvy than Americans are.

    Et plus faconable aussi!

  107. 107.

    Corner Stone

    Hey Adam,
    While I have you, do you have any insight into using USAJOBS.gov to apply for a position? If not you, maybe you’re familiar with a colleague that may have used their services?
    I plan to ask the blog this weekend during a newer open thread as well, but thought I’d ask now. Also too.

  108. 108.

    eclare

    @Cheryl Rofer: I agree with your ETA 2, he wasn’t worried about getting caught because someone had reassured him that nothing would happen to him. Pure speculation on my part.

  111. 111.

    Lizzy L

    @Cheryl Rofer: There might be an unexplored physical cause; a brain tumor, for example. I realize it’s the stuff of fiction, but it does happen.

  112. 112.

    Steve in the ATL

    @eclare: i had a late meeting with a union (I know, right?) and by the time I got home my (soon to be ex-)wife had almost finished the Pancho’s dip. Worst May 5 ever.

  117. 117.

    debbie

    @Gvg:

    Scooter Libby was a decent substitute. The bonus was how pissed off Cheney was when Bush didn’t pardon Libby.

  118. 118.

    Corner Stone

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s kind of specific, but in general the best way to approach a position that fits very well but has a brazillion “minimum” requirements that I mostly knock out of the park. But a few I have zero exposure to. In the private sector I know where I can touch and go but no idea what GOV does in the process.
    I have to step out for just a bit but expect to return.

  120. 120.

    mai naem mobile

    The Brits should just create an emergency in the block where they Ecuadorian embassy is and evacuate there buidling and get Assange that way. Gas leak or something .

  121. 121.

    efgoldman

    @germy:

    It’s somehow relevant to what’s happening in the world.

    Blizzardnado?
    I know nobody ever went broke underestimating… etc, but did ANYONE, including the original producers, think the original Sharknado would turn into a successful, money making franchise?
    Maybe the election shouldn’t have been a surprise.

  123. 123.

    HeleninEire

    @Captain C: Yeah. Lots of them were. Oh my bad they can say. Apparently it’s part of federal law. FUCKITY FUCK.

  125. 125.

    Booger

    Sweet fried Jeebus on buttered toast points! Would it kill these campaigns to spend a couple of bucks to hire a freaking CISSP before they get torpedoed by 4chan?

  127. 127.

    ArchTeryx

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Leave us bronies out of it. Some of us know exactly who is trying to fuck us over.

    However, if someone offered me a trade of Celestia (think Mrs. Whatsit from A Wrinkle in Time) for Trump, in exchange for the lives of every Republican politician?

    No mercy.

  132. 132.

    efgoldman

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    There are rumors of something called rain arriving this weekend.

    Didn’t it recently rain so much that Martin was sending nightly reports of some dam maybe giving way?

  133. 133.

    Steve in the ATL

    @ArchTeryx:

    if someone offered me a trade of Celestia (think Mrs. Whatsit from A Wrinkle in Time)

    BRB–gotta run this through Google translate

  134. 134.

    GregB

    Like clockwork, Greenwald comes to the fascists defense.

    Glenn Greenwald‏Verified account @ggreenwald 34m34 minutes ago
    More
    Glenn Greenwald Retweeted Susan Hennessey
    Imagine how creepy it would be if the press jointly chose to ignore and suppress newsworthy information because of who it hurts or helps.

  140. 140.

    JMG

    @efgoldman: Oh, com’on. I sure knew Sharknado would be a hit the second I saw the title. BTW, the daughter of a couple who lived down the street from us in Lexington had the female lead in “Sharktopus vs. Terracuda” An epic worthy of Kurosawa.

  143. 143.

    Baud

    I think for Baud! 2020!, I’m going to send myself some emails that make me look really good. And then just wait…

  144. 144.

    efgoldman

    @Lizzy L:

    California; it’s a big state.

    I thought I remembered Bill and Mnem particularly remarking on it.

  145. 145.

    Steve in the ATL

    @trollhattan:

    “Pancho’s dip” sounds like an exotic STD.

    You should avoid the bad side of Tijuana and the east side of Memphis

  146. 146.

    TenguPhule

    @efgoldman:

    but did ANYONE, including the original producers, think the original Sharknado would turn into a successful, money making franchise?

    Never heard of so bad its good?

  152. 152.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Assange and his minions need to be erased from the face of the Earth.

  153. 153.

    JWR

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @JWR: Eschaton alum?

    I was a regular Atrios reader back then, but I was mainly referring to FireDogLake, which was my daily hangout. (Though I commented there, at FDL, about as much as I do here, ie. not very often.) I left after Hamsher started banning people for next to nothing. For breathing, perhaps?

  154. 154.

    efgoldman

    @TenguPhule:

    Is Glenn still under a “No Drone Strike Jokes” policy here?

    Only because he’s in a country where we can’t do that.
    I don’t think he’s under a “no computer viruses jokes” policy, though
    Or we could do the thing he hates most of all: ignore him. He’s a nothingburger. He has no real influence except on other leftier than thous, and they don’t either.

  162. 162.

    sudo

    People keep mentioning Assange, but Snowden is huge here.

    We’ve effective had our guard stripped and been defanged by Snowden, and since our allies use a lot of the same methods and resources we can’t really fight back against this the way we once could. Our very freedoms mean we can’t effectively fight back against the likes of a Greenwald or an Assange if they are willing to use information proffered by our enemies. So if our ability to combat those is crippedly by the likes of a Snowden, then really there’s not a fucking thing we can do except huff and puff about it.

    Electing a Democratic house and even impeaching Trump is not going to fix this at all. Sure it will fix some things, but a winning electoral margin will still vote the same way and the Russians still have the keys Snowden gave them and Assange/Greenwald are still free to publish the stolen goods.

    At this point we are all just waiting and hoping the Russians overplay their hand and trip themselves up.

  165. 165.

    Steve in the ATL

    @TenguPhule:

    Photoshopped nude pix of yourself with Supermodels?

    Clarification, please–are the supermodels nude or just Baud? I want to see the pics either way, of course; just need to be clear how much I need to drink first.

  167. 167.

    TenguPhule

    @sudo:

    So if our ability to combat those is crippedly by the likes of a Snowden, then really there’s not a fucking thing we can do except huff and puff about it.

    If the Russians are crass enough to send their assassins to New York to take out their own, turnabout is fair play.

  172. 172.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Today is the 121st anniversary of the Bay View massacre. Within a few years after it, Milwaukee was controlled by good government Democratic Socialists (later known as Sewer Socialists because of their focus on infrastructure and good governance). They then teamed with the state’s progressives to introduce things like unemployment insurance and workers comp.

  173. 173.

    greennotGreen

    This is so annoying! Lots of update info on my personal front and the world just insists on being too chaotic for an open thread. At least my family is doing its part.

  175. 175.

    trnc

    @Uncle Cosmo: This is exactly what happened in NC. I think we need laws that restrict lame duck legislation to bills that don’t directly affect the powers of incoming elected officials.

  186. 186.

    sudo

    @TenguPhule:

    It’s too late for Snowden, that damage has fucking be done. And do what then, kill Assange and Greenwald? That’s the official end of freedom of the press and drags us down to Putin’s level.

    At this point it’s give up on liberal democracy and our freedoms to fix this, at which point we’ve proved those are full of shit. We could go to war with Russia, that’s not all that great of an option. We can give the right what it wants and pretend this didn’t happen, economically our side of the isle would be hurt less but the social issues which is really what the party cares about and stands for are something we wouldn’t bargain on, so toss that idea out. Which leaves us… waiting for the Russians to fuck up.

    Sorry, but we got fucking played. And our side of the isle cheered for most of these fuckers at one point or another and railing against the CIA/NSA and that evil Obama letting them read our emails, and now the price of the deal with the Devil is due. We either throw away something we hold non negotiable and prove we are as full of shit as our critics always said, or we hold the moral high ground and do the right things on those issues and hope Russia fucks this up and history vindicates us.

    The only saving grace is that it looks like the sane party in France has a capable candidate, they might get out of this.

  188. 188.

    Gin & Tonic

    There’s lots not to like about this, but it will be fascinating nevertheless. In about two hours from now, three of the world’s best distance runners will be attempting to break the 2-hour marathon barrier, in an event underwritten by Nike specifically for this purpose. Info here; it will be live-streamable. This is not like a Boston or NY marathon – the three are all under contract to Nike, the course is closed, there are no other competitors. This is a human-factors experiment, basically.

  190. 190.

    Quinerly

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Especially when it gets to a discussion of a 4 testicle Baud with nekkid supermodels. I’m trying to follow along but reading bottom to top.?

  193. 193.

    TenguPhule

    @sudo:

    It’s too late for Snowden, that damage has fucking be done.

    Its not too late for him to serve as an example to other traitors serving Russia. And it is a death penalty crime so its not like he doesn’t know what fate awaits him if we ever get our hands on him anyway.

    And do what then, kill Assange and Greenwald?

    Depends on how much evidence we can turn up about them working for Russia. If serious money changed hands, I’m all in favor of making more examples of them. At some point the temptation of a Russian payday needs to be weighed against a bloody end by US forces.

  195. 195.

    Steve in the ATL

    @TenguPhule:

    At some point the temptation of a Russian payday needs to be weighed against a bloody end by US forces.

    Trying very hard to disagree, and not succeeding….

  199. 199.

    TenguPhule

    @sudo:

    We either throw away something we hold non negotiable and prove we are as full of shit as our critics always said, or we hold the moral high ground and do the right things on those issues and hope Russia fucks this up and history vindicates us.

    Its not like our government agencies don’t already have a history of killing otherwise unreachable enemies.

  202. 202.

    Kathleen

    @sudo: Yeah, funny how leaking documents about how US was supposedly violating other nations’ sovereignty (which always managed to happen when PBO getting ready to meet with leader of leaked country) protected me from NSA violating my Civil Liberties. OT and Horse Beating (only metaphorical) but Pierce worshiped Snowald and thought he was a hero.

  203. 203.

    Adam L Silverman

    @greennotGreen: How you doing? Also, I always put the open thread tag on all my posts. That way no one complains about people going off topic. So update away.

  204. 204.

    raven

    @Steve in the ATL: I’ve told you my old man was Jack Burmaster’s assistant coach at Evanston before he took the head job at North Chicago? I have a bunch of buddies from Rogers Park, Sullivan mostly.

  206. 206.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @sudo: Working alongside a fascist klepto-tyrant and regressive is more than enough reason to take Greenwald, Assange, and Snowden out.

    No mercy for Quislings.

  207. 207.

    tobie

    @greennotGreen: You make us all smile with your posts, so please write whenever convenient for you. Added benefit: it stops the squabbling. Actually on this thread we seem to be behaving.

  212. 212.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus: got a step sister there. She’s all ghetto now that she’s a westsider–it’s like she never went to New Trier!

  215. 215.

    sudo

    @Kathleen:

    Plenty of people worshiped Snowden, and those same people now refuse to mention that fiasco and all huffy about Russians. Whelp, they got what they cheered for. I don’t want to hear any complaining from Pierce now about this. You asked for it, you cheered it on, now here it is. This is on you just as much as it is on his voters.

    By you I mean Pearce, I hope he enjoys what he cheered on.

  216. 216.

    Corner Stone

    NY Rep Sean Maloney just ripped Rep Faso to shreds on TRMS. That was nice. Clear, concise, realistic. Just brutal.

  217. 217.

    Lyrebird

    @JWR:
    Funny thing…

    I left after Hamsher started banning people for next to nothing.

    I stopped visiting after too many times seeing folks not responded to let alone banned for trotting out timeworn conspiracies about Jewish people and organizations.
    but probably only a little earlier, bc I recognized all but Leopold. No need to clarify…

  218. 218.

    raven

    @Steve in the ATL: No, I lived in Villa Park before I went in the Army. When I went to the U of I, straight out on Vietnam, I couldn’t live off campus because I was only 19! I ended up in a pro rated dorm called Bromely Hall and many of the kids were North Siders and I became friends for life with some of them. We lived in Evanston and North Chicago in the early-mid 50’s and then moved to LA. I loved back to Villa Park (my dad’s hometown) when my parents got divorced in 61. My old man basically kidnapped me (at least that’s what it would be now) and I lived with him and his new wife until 66. Compicated huh?

  219. 219.

    raven

    @Omnes Omnibus: NO!!! Really? I was going to move to St Charles (Charlie Town) when the DuPage County Court gave me the choice between that and the Army!

  221. 221.

    PVDMichael

    Rep Sean Patrick Maloney (D-NY) suggests D congressfolks should hold town halls in neighboring R districts if the R reps won’t meet with constituents. I don’t know why I think this idea is kinda awesome.

  225. 225.

    raven

    @Omnes Omnibus: Actually my cousin has lived in Geneva for 30 years. The part of my family lived in West Chicago and I even lived in WeGo for a year.

  227. 227.

    tobie

    I just saw a Democratic congressman from NY-18 named Maloney on Rachel Maddow’s show. It turns out that the Republican congressman from NY-19 named Faso is not holding town halls, so Maloney decided to adopt his district and hold town halls discussing what’s in the AHCA. A propos Betty Cracker’s earlier post that we can’t wait till 2018, this seems like a great idea. Cute but at the same time a strategic blow to Republicans where they’re weakest.

    EDIT–oops, see PVDMichael already addressed this.

  229. 229.

    JWR

    @Lyrebird: Yeah, that place was not only just as you describe, but I always felt as if I was walking on eggshells in order not to in some way or another trigger our blog hosts rage.

  230. 230.

    Shalimar

    @sudo: Assange is a Russian agent at this point. If he dies in the attempt to arrest him and put him in prison for the rest of his life, so be it.

    Greenwald may be in the pay of the Russians too, but his writing is so verbose and convoluted that I doubt anyone would care if he was. Plus, he has a much better claim to still being a journalist, albeit a terrible one.

  233. 233.

    Ohio Mom

    @greennotGreen: World chaos we will always have, to one degree or another. But our time with you is precious. You are entitled to be as off-topic as you wish.

  238. 238.

    Lyrebird

    @JWR: Glad to know I was not the only one getting that vibe… I was quite new to blog reading, did not spend time on usenet beforehand, and still figuring things out. Not that I have anything all figured out now, of course. Back then I did start to notice that I felt more welcome at Steve Gilliard’s blog than at FDL. And at Gilliard’s site the first time I left a comment (or close to it), the very first reply was an instruction to go Cheney myself!

  239. 239.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodingers_cat: You are getting kind of passive-aggressive. I have asked in the past and I ask again, are you alright? Do you need to take an internet break?

  240. 240.

    Chris

    @Kathleen:

    @sudo: Yeah, funny how leaking documents about how US was supposedly violating other nations’ sovereignty (which always managed to happen when PBO getting ready to meet with leader of leaked country) protected me from NSA violating my Civil Liberties. OT and Horse Beating (only metaphorical) but Pierce worshiped Snowald and thought he was a hero.

    I always thought the Wikileaks crowd were full-on “gentlemen don’t read other gentlemen’s mail” level lunatics. That’s always kept me at arm’s length from them, even when I still thought they were just well-meaning activists. (Their college campus fanbase still are well-meaning activists, probably, but also total dupes).

  241. 241.

    PVDMichael

    I’m calling Rep Maloney’s office on Monday morning to encourage him to hold a town hall in Faso’s district. “Time to go on offense,” I think I heard him say…

  243. 243.

    eclare

    @PVDMichael: That is a great idea, need to call my rep to hold a town hall in Marsha (vomit) Blackburn’s district. I have no money, but I would chip in.

  244. 244.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You are getting kind of passive-aggressive. I have asked in the past and I ask again, are you alright? Do you need to take an internet break?

    You’re not the only one who’s noticed that. I’m going to have HR refer her to the employee assistance program.

  248. 248.

    Aleta

    @raven: I went through Villa Park on the railroad sometimes as a kid in the 60s. I don’t know the line (rr company), but I remember there were the Rock Island, and Burlington; and the Santa Fe and Union Pacific were the major ones barreling through my town in Iowa.

  249. 249.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Omnes Omnibus: I appreciate your concern. I am fine. I was always sarcastic, did not suffer fools. Is my sarcasm edgier than before, perhaps. I don’t see what was passive about my remark. I am finding it difficult to forgive people who made this atrocity possible, that includes Snowden fanclub on the left. Also, you are beginning to sound like mom. I have always hated being told what to do.

  252. 252.

    Ohio Mom

    @PVDMichael: I’m not sure how that would work in Ohio — thanks to gerrymandering, there aren’t very many Democratic Congressional Reps — we hold just four seats to 12 Republican ones. There would be some long car trips for the Dems. But I would like to go to Town Hall.

  254. 254.

    SFAW

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Tunch is Ceiling Cat and JC is his prophet. That alone excuses him of all sins.

    Cole is also wielder of the sacred Mop of Naked Righteousness, and he gives out Dijon mustard at Communion.

  255. 255.

    Davis X. Machina

    @Chris:

    Oh, and “Open covenants, openly arrived at.” It’s a glorious American tradition.

  256. 256.

    JWR

    @Lyrebird: Oh no! Sorry to hear you received such treatment, and at Gilliard’s site no less. Like you, I’d had little experience with this online communication stuff, but my rule of thumb now is to always read several months of comment threads before daring to get my feet wet. (Hey, I never got banned at FDL, and that’s sayin’ somethin’!)

  257. 257.

    efgoldman

    @trnc:

    I think we need laws that restrict lame duck legislation to bills that don’t directly affect the powers of incoming elected officials.

    Unfortunately constitution specifically says each house makes its own rules.

  258. 258.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @schrodingers_cat: Okay. Let me ask this: when I made a comment on the Belgian voting record, why did you respond with a comment about the Congo? I am not telling you what to do. I don’t do that.

  261. 261.

    Steve in the ATL

    @Omnes Omnibus: you sound like the unions I deal with. “I’m not telling how to run your business but [telling me how to run my business]”

    Anyhoo, you know all those horrible things you hear African countries doing, such as amputating people’s arms and legs? They learned that from the Europeans, and King Leopold of Belgium in particular. And Congo was of course a Belgian colony.

    /history major

  262. 262.

    Gravenstone

    @Ohio Mom: One might hope that a Representative holding a Q&A in a neighboring district that is being ignored by their own Rep might have an effect to … encourage other bystanders to get out there and face the music rather than be embarrassed in turn.

  263. 263.

    Steve in the ATL

    @efgoldman:

    Unfortunately constitution specifically says each house makes its own rules.

    Will no one rid me of this troublesome document?

  264. 264.

    efgoldman

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Trying very hard to disagree, and not succeeding….

    So… what? We send drones or cruise missiles to take out the Ecuadorean embassy in London? Fuck, we’re not on enough shit lists since January 20?
    Even the Russians wouldn’t pull that shit.

  267. 267.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Steve in the ATL: The fact the Belgium has a really high voting rate has nothing to do with its horrible colonial past. If I say something good about Obama, am I saying good things about the Jackson Admin?

  268. 268.

    BruceFromOhio

    The thread was started by a Swedish user who asked members of the community if they could help him create memes and misinformation about Emmanuel Macron that could then be translated and spread across the web.

    Some guy in the next town took out an ad in my town’s little local newspaper to rail against the school levy.
    All I could think was a) wtf? you don’t even live here, what the hell is it to you? and b) when I find your address I burn down your Gaia-damned house.

    The levy passed, and no houses were burned down. This time.

  270. 270.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Snowden lost me with his choices of places of refuge. Just too obvious that there was more than civil libertarian idealism involved in this sad story.

  273. 273.

    NotMax

    (pokes head in)

    Q: What do you call tips at a Parisian topless club?

    A: Francs for the mammaries.

    (exits swiftly)

  275. 275.

    fatefullightning

    reactionary woman from political dynasty, backed by rival european powers trying wreck france…what could go wrong

  277. 277.

    Steve in the ATL

    @NotMax:

    (pokes head in)

    Q: What do you call tips at a Parisian topless club?

    A: Francs for the mammaries.

    (exits swiftly)

    can we get the banhammer here, please?!

  279. 279.

    fatefullightning

    @efgoldman:

    Ecuadorean territory

    If there’s one thing the CIA knows how to handle, it’s a Latin American country that has forgotten whose hemisphere it’s in.

  282. 282.

    Shalimar

    @Omnes Omnibus: Do we have to say something good about the Jackson administration? Ok, I’ll try. They rank 1st overall in Atrocities Committed by the President Personally. Being 1st of 45 is good, right?

  284. 284.

    NotMax

    @Shalimar

    People in Cambodia and Laos having the sh*t bombed out them by dint of secret U.S. presidential order ain’t exactly chopped liver.

  287. 287.

    Jean

    @JWR: I used to read FDL every day. Left when the JH nuttiness infected and affected many in the commentariat. Whole place, including its expansion of front-pagers, went downhill rather fast.

  289. 289.

    Bill Arnold

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Le Pen stated in Wednesday’s debate that she knew something was coming, but she wouldn’t say what. I’m sure the DGSE will be looking into how she knew that.

    Have a link handy for that? (google translate works well enough for French if there is a transcript). Blurting of that sort sounds potentially Trump-team level sloppy.
    Refraining from any comment until the election is complete. (Am fascinated though. Twitter is a’fire and the weekend social media will probably generate a thesis or three, not kidding.)

  290. 290.

    Crust

    Is Wikileaks involved? Of course Wikileaks is involved!

    It looks to me that Wikileaks are “involved” only the same way that you’re involved: They’re commenting on the leak. It looks like they weren’t a party to the leak. They’re examining the leak — like lots of people and orgs — after someone else published it.

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