Charlie Sykes become the latest pundit to embrace cleek’s law:
If liberals hate something, the argument goes, then it must be wonderful and worthy of aggressive defense. Each controversy reinforces the divisions and the distrust, and Mr. Trump counts on that.
What may have begun as a policy or a tactic in opposition has long since become a reflex. But there is an obvious price to be paid for essentially becoming a party devoted to trolling. In the long run, it’s hard to see how a party dedicated to liberal tears can remain a movement based on ideas or centered on principles.
It stopped being a movement based on ideas or centered on principles a long time of course, but calling conservatism an irrational anti-liberal reflex is good description.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Princess Manbaby is the logical end to the road they started down lo, these many years ago. There really isn’t anywhere else they could’ve ended up. It didn’t have to be Trump specifically, but sooner or later, it was inevitable that somebody like him would end up running the show. It was our bad luck that he got those 80,000-odd votes he needed in three states to squeak in under the wire.
RepubAnon
It goes to the trend of people viewing politics as a sporting event, which doesn’t affect them personally. Probably the inevitable result of political coverage as a horserace rather than as a set of policy initiatives. It’s like the Drazis in the old SF series Babylon 5, where they are assigned to either the Green side or the Purple side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcBTOU7RvbU
m.j.
“Mr.,” Trump?
jl
‘remain’?
Major Major Major Major
Progress is progress.
Taylor
Jonathan Freedland in the Guardian is no longer a fan of written constitutions, now he realizes that the US Constitution is not worth the paper it’s written on:
p.a.
But it is based upon an idea: that billionaire white septuaginarian bigots should control the world. For the most part an unspoken idea, but an idea
nevertheless.
Steeplejack
@m.j.:
House style at the Times.
Judge Crater
The GOP, to the extent that it has an ideology, believes in a mythical “free market” that can negotiate any social problem. The Deep State, and its regulations, interferes with the proper distribution of social prerogatives – wealth, health care, education and status. Thus, drowning the federal government in a bathtub is their fundamental goal. The incompetence and intentional monkey-wrenching of government functions by the Trump administration is exactly what they want. Trump is the pathological id that resides in all of their damaged psyches. That it may destroy them too is the only thing they fear.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
Saw an A.P. piece that says that poor, delicate, unappreciated Princess Manbaby is sitting in the White House alone, scared and seething over the monumental injustice that everybody hates him. He’s “incensed” that the Democrats weren’t happy that he fired Comey. He’s pissed off at his own people for not cleaning up the shit he’s smeared all over everything fast enough or well enough. Yeah, he’s pretty much just pissed at the whole fucking world for being so mean to him and not loving him and thinking he’s the greatest. bestest, awesomest president what ever was. Poor, pitiful, pathetic baby…
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
I blame sports radio. Seriously. Turns out that people yelling at each other about their favorite teams and tactics translates well to a political news/talk format and jacks up ratings. Yay, advertising dollars. That it also started the process of dumbing the entire country down to a dangerous level is unimportant.
And I don’t have a whole lot of faith that Trump is the logical conclusion of all of this. I’m sure there’s worse waiting in the wings.
Hal
My conservative Trump friends on Facebook have been awfully silent about this latest dumpster fire. The only mild response was from one friend with one of those Chuck Schumer wanted to fire Comey, what a hypocrit! red herrings conservatives love. Other than that it seems to be anything but Trump. Obama’s toilet paper choice would send some of these folks apoplectic, but shitting on democracy in real time? Meh.
Another Scott
OT – Some good news. The bad guys are pretty stupid sometimes, and that will help save us.
A good guy stops new spread of ransom malware. BBC:
Heh.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Compare with Hillary Clinton, who has been treated 1000x worse for 4x as long, and who keeps on truckin’.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Taylor: The same thing hit me during the first term of Bush the Lesser — our entire system of government works on the honor system. I thought I came to that realization pretty late — I’m surprised to see anyone just figuring it out now.
Corner Stone
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
Trump doesn’t care about written or unwritten rules. He does not care about contracts or signed deals. But his abrogation of all the unwritten rules have allowed the corrupt elected R’s to look the other way and ignore doing anything about his behavior.
I personally wonder if we will see Ivanka do a public appearance again anytime in the upcoming future. I bet she’d get the DeVoss treatment if it was any kind of open forum.
Roger Moore
@Judge Crater:
I don’t think they have much of a coherent ideology. I think there’s a shared distrust for government, but the reasons behind that distrust are sufficiently different that it doesn’t count as a serious ideology. Yes, there is a rich, Randian wing of the party that believes that a market unconstrained by government regulation will make things better. But there are also racists who are OK with government in the abstract but are upset that Those People are included. They’re willing to burn government down to prevent Those People from benefiting, but they’d be even happier with a White Only welfare state. Overlapping with the racists are Christianists, who are unhappy with the government because they can’t use it to enforce their religious beliefs on everyone else. Again, they’re willing to burn the thing down if they can’t get their way, but they’d be happiest with a powerful government run by and for Christianists.
These people are only allies of convenience. If they ever get complete power, they’re going to have an immediate falling out because they won’t be able to decide what to do with it.
Kelly
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
Yeah the 63 million folks that thought Trump was the best choice are not going to turn into liberals because of Trump’s chaos. One bunch will find it funny. The rest will feel they just need to get a better caudillo. Conservatism cannot fail it can only be failed. Folks in my part of rural Oregon voted 60% Trump. Very few have noticed how chaotic Trump is.
jl
@Hal: Try referring to the ‘Drumpster Fire’ in Washington, and see what they say.
In fact, please try out Trumpster Fire, Drumpster Fire and Drumpfster Fire and let us know which one works best.
Roger Moore
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
I think it’s the logical evolution of 24 hour news networks. There just isn’t enough news in a day to justify a channel that’s nothing but news and doesn’t just repeat the same headlines throughout the day, or at the very least it isn’t cost effective to have enough reporters to go out and collect enough news to keep a 24 hour news channel going without massively repeating itself. It’s much cheaper to have about 1 hour worth of headlines and maybe a few investigative pieces, repeat those a few times, and fill the rest of the day with talking/arguing heads. Even with outrageous salaries, opinion is way cheaper than actual news reporting.
Thoughtful David
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): Several people lately have been pointing out that Trump is unlikely to be impeached. I think they’re probably correct; the Treason Party will never do it.
But this is why I don’t see Trump finishing out his term, either. He’s too much of a child–manbaby is a good description. He’s not going to be successful and things are not going to get better for him (the Russians will make sure of that–they’re benefiting from this way too much; the Chinese too). So at some point he’s going to resign, saying “I was too good for you. You don’t deserve me. And the Democrats are mean. Waaaaaah!”
And we’ll be stuck with Pence* (who the Russians will also manipulate like hell.).
Thoughtful David
@Corner Stone: Jared has already almost completely disappeared from view, following his humiliation in the St. Laurent of Arabia incident. That’s been a month ago, and they almost need to put his picture on a milk carton he’s been so scarce since.
Doesn’t mean that he’s not in the background doing evil shit, just that he’s not up to public humiliation anymore.
trollhattan
I wonder if there’s any there, there?
Nicole
Excellent lyric choice. Seeing as how the lonely child in the WH is all reflex.
guachi
Brilliant title.
“Reflex”, indeed.
Everything Trump does leaves us with a question mark.
Lizzy L
@Roger Moore:
I disagree. If they get complete power, the Free Marketeers will cede all decisions about social policy to the racists and Christianists, as long as they can make all the significant decisions about who gets the money, i.e. tax cuts. Think Mick Mulvaney. The racists and Christianists will cheerfully join forces to screw over black people of all genders, brown people of all genders, women who are not rich and white, gay people, trans people, children, poor people, sick people, old people who are not rich and white, immigrants who are not rich and white, non-Christians, atheists, liberal and ecumenical Christians who think screwing over other people is Wrong, and so on. Think Jeff Sessions.
Imagine if Donald Trump had asked Ted Cruz to be his running mate, and Cruz had accepted.
Betty Cracker
@Kelly: I’m hoping the infrequent voters who turned out for Trump can be humiliated into neglecting their franchise again. It’s a personal project of mine with some dumbass relatives who voted for the shitgibbon.
Gvg
@Roger Moore: I think this is what already occurred and it’s why not much is getting passed. In fact it was somewhat in evidence even before in Bush’s terms.
It’s also been noticeable that they don’t really have any smart people or thinkers anymore. Ryan’s plans that are nearly blank sheets of paper would have been laughed off the stage in an earlier time. They all know what they want, don’t really realize their friends don’t have identical goals, and none of them know how to get it. Even if they passed what they say, or repealed what they say, it wouldn’t have the results they imagine.
I noticed they were attracting a lot of empty headed candidates around the fall of communism. Those guys were originally followers who voted party line so the smart guys liked them but eventually they outnumbered the smart guys and took over. Bushes disaster plus some sleepy personal scandals drove away the last brains in the party leadership and it seemed to me voters too. When the moderate voters left the GOP in 2006 it seemed to me the last brakes on nuttiness came off.
James Powell
The rejection or violation of political norms began with the rise of Gingrich and the radicalization of the Republican Party.
It has been aided and abetted by the press/media, particularly the New York Times, who all follow strict rules of “both sides” & “some say” to every Republican transgression. At the same time, they promote and exaggerate any claim made against any Democrat, especially so if it was a Clinton.
It should also be noted that the great majority of establishment Democrats have done precious little to counter it. I can’t imagine what they were thinking going into 2010. Why didn’t they think holding the house and state govts was critical? Were they not aware of what census and redistricting would do? I feel like the whole world of bloggers talked about nothing else, but elected Democrats were spinning on their own thumbs.
efgoldman
I think, as good patriotic Americans, it is up to us to encourage this trend in Henna Hater, his allies and followers.
Baud
@James Powell:
Where were you that you saw that? I was at Kos at that time, and it was all negative about the Dem party in 2010.
Elizabelle
Yeah, that is a genius blogpost title.
The reflex
is a lonely child
Off to consult Dr. youtube.
Kelly
@Betty Cracker: I hope the infrequent voters may be to bored to vote, once Trump’s novelty wears off. I have several Republican neighbors that have surprised me with environmental concerns. They are hunters/fishermen that care about habitat and public lands. I suppose it’s the usual shift to liberal when it touches them personally. I think they may cross over to our side for good. A few others are retired business folk that see Trump for the con man he is. They’ll go back to R for some one like Kasich.
Sunny Raines
today’s republicans = scoundrels selling hate to the ignorant and easily manipulated.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Thoughtful David: I think you’re right–up to a point. There’s no way in hell Republicans will impeach Princess Manbaby before 2018. There are too few Republican senators up (only eight, I think, out of 33) and most House members will feel safe enough not to worry about a guy with a 37% approval dragging them down. But–
But if he gets down into Crazification territory, 27% or below, some of these guys might begin to think a little about how tightly they want to be seen to be tied to this clown. A few might begin talking about impeachment. All the same, the only way I could see it happening is if the lose the House and the Senate. it would be hard, but it could happen. I could see them losing Nevada and maybe–maybe–even Arizona and Nebraska. maybe. Of course, that would put both houses in Democratic hands.
If the held the Senate by 50-50 or 51-49, though, a lot of senators who won their seats in 2014 will be looking at 2020, and they might just be squirrelly enough to freak out about their next races to wonder if it might be time to cut this guy loose. It would take an awful lot of things to break just the right way, but it could happen. Not that I’m betting on it…
eclare
@trollhattan: Hmmm, forwarded, thanks.
efgoldman
@James Powell:
I think they were operating under the (correct) assumption that the president’s party always loses seats in midterms; also, given the kinds of publicity they got, it was hard at first to take the Astroturf TeaHadis seriously. Nobody saw the tsunami coming until it was way, way too late.
Cheryl Rofer
@efgoldman: Compare
General Jack D. Ripper
john fremont
@Hal: I’ve seen some of my Facebook feed with the conservatives trying the Both Sides Do It because Clinton had every US Attorney resign when he took office in 93. So there!
ruemara
@James Powell: Don’t blame establishment Dems. Blame the netroots. they preach a message of discontent, poutrage and disengagement wrapped up in an alluring bow of smug superiority. Establishment Dems run for as many offices as they think feasible, then doofai of the left say how impure they are and focus only on presidential and congressional seats. Nitfuckingwits.
efgoldman
@Cheryl Rofer:
So, so long since I’ve seen that; I totally forgot that aspect.
tobie
@trollhattan: My understanding is that Preet Bharara was looking into Trump’s money laundering scheme when he was fired. That’s what makes yesterday’s settlement regarding Prevezon’s money laundering in the Southern District of NY so interesting. The settlement value was actually low. Prevezon was fined $6 million. Some are asking what information the company had to fork over in exchange for this.
Roger Moore
@Gvg:
I think there are several underlying dynamics that are pushing things toward the GOP being completely incapable of legislating. The first is the bullshit takeover of the party, what Josh Marshall calls the Nonsense Debt. People like Nixon and Reagan were bullshit artists, but they knew they were lying to the rubes to get their votes. Over time, though, those knowing BS artists have gradually been replaced by people who grew up listening to and believing their lies, so that the party is now being run by true believers. The Tea Party was the final stages of that takeover.
Related to that was the elimination of earmarks, which was one of the top priorities of the Tea Party. You can argue about whether earmarks were corrupt, but they served the valuable purpose of giving partly leaders leverage over the back bench. Getting rid of that leverage lets groups like the Free Dumb Caucasians, who would have been squashed by party leadership in previous generations, survive and even dictate terms from the back bench.
And, as you point out, being in power brings out the existing fractures between wings of the party. The Free Dumb Caucasians are the most obvious example, but they aren’t the only one.
efgoldman
@ruemara:
The leftier-than-thous certainly don’t help things, but they’re not the root (sorry) of the problem, not at all. They have influence only out at the margins.
In a huge wave like 2010, their effect was minor at best.
Don’t confuse the intartoobz megaphones with real impact.
Those kinds of marginal players are much more important in a too close to call election like the last one.
Mike in NC
@efgoldman: Let’s all hope that Trump indulges his insatiable gluttony by following dinner with desserts of six scoops of ice cream and a whole one of those chocolate cakes he loves so much.
FlyingToaster
@Kelly:
Who could NEVER get the nomination in the current GOP. I loathe Kasich, but he’s only evil, not fucking nuts. You have to appeal to the crazy, so you’re looking for a Trump or a Cruz or Gomert. I’d have included Bachman, but she has a va-jay-jay so she’s not eligible either.
Cheryl Rofer
@efgoldman: “Dr. Strangelove” had its 50th anniversary last year. But it is totally up to date.
Darkrose
Tip of the cap from this Durannie.
clay
Shocked! Shocked, I say!!
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/report-chaffetz-leave-congress-fox-news
Gin & Tonic
@clay: So the Benghazi hearing was an audition tape.
Doug!
@guachi:
Yes it does.
Taylor
@Baud: OK at the risk of pissing off people, I lay at least some of the blame for the route at the polls in 2010 at Obama’s feet. In 2008, he ran a vapid kumbuya campaign, where his strategy was obviously to allow people to project their own ideal candidate on to him. At the time, I thought he was an empty suit.
It was a smart strategy in the election, but inevitably people were disappointed when he didn’t deliver the unicorns they were expecting (too little on stimulus or too much, too radical overhaul of healthcare or didn’t go far enough, depending on whether you’re a Teabagger or a Public Option zealot). Plus, after being inspired to believe that they were finally going to get their unicorns, voters got their noses rubbed in the US Senate sausage machine.
Obama was also let down by the people around him, Gibb in particular letting his network of campaign workers atrophy due to neglect. Obama going on TV criticizing his own voters if they didn’t get out to vote in 2010 was the nadir.
Obama was a master politician and did accomplish great things despite the odds against him. He was served well by Nancy Pelosi and (in retrospect) Harry Reid, while they were in a position to help him. Perhaps the Rock Star campaign in 2008 was necessary in order to elect the first AA president. But I feel it had consequences.
Funnily enough, last year Trump was the Rock Star candidate, Clinton the boring old wonk that the media told people not to trust. Just as in 2008, you had people projecting onto him what they wanted to see (in Trump’s case of course he helped by outright lying to people).
If we get through our on-going constitutional crisis, it would be nice to hope that the electorate or some significant part of it might finally Grow The Fuck Up.
efgoldman
@Taylor:
So you criticize Obama for blaming the voters, then you blame the voters.
My only quibble with Obama is, he didn’t get cynical enough, fast enough.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Taylor: You’re the one who thinks that time Hillary said “vast right wing conspiracy” was a major progressive victory, right?
ETA: Did you used to post at MyDD?
Trentrunner
@Taylor: This is an especially odious and odoriferous piece of both-sides-ism.
debbie
@Cheryl Rofer:
I watch it every couple of years and other than the chicks’ two-pieces, it only becomes more and more relevant.
Baud
@Taylor: I agree that people projected onto Obama and Trump, but I can hardly blame either one for that. And Obama did win reelection, so people weren’t that disappointed in him.
Aimai
@ruemara: yup!
OldDave
@debbie: Some fifteen odd years ago a new coworker had recently moved to the US from Moldova. He was also a former member of the Soviet Army. I asked if if he had ever seen Strangelove. “No.” So I loaned him a DVD. He *loved it*.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: “Single payer or bust!”
Joyce H
Uh, guys? Did you see today’s news item? Trump gave the commencement address at Liberty University and was awarded an honorary Doctor of Law. We all know what this means, right? Yep – now he’s going to think he’s a lawyer.
clay
@Gin & Tonic: I guess technically Fox News is “the private sector”, although it seems more like state-owned propaganda at the moment.
Joyce H
@Joyce H:
Heck, he might decide he’s a Doctor, too.
clay
@Joyce H: And a doctor.
Edit: Hey! You can’t hog ALL the jokes!
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Bust always wins.
@Joyce H: He probably also thinks he has honor.
germy
@clay:
Does the State own Fox, or does Fox own the State?
Chyron HR
@Taylor:
This persistent meme that election results are somehow magically unrelated to the actions of voters will never cease to baffle me.
Gin & Tonic
@Taylor:
It would be nice to hope I were 30 years younger and 20 pounds lighter. Same chance.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chyron HR: Thank you! the notion that elections are won and lost by who chairs what committee, or by politicians who aren’t on the ballot drives me crazy. I’m waiting for an avalanche of that kind of kvetching over the next few weeks.
Chet Murthy
@Taylor: [apropos of your comment,I swear]
Chris Rock was on Fallon’s show, talking about the last Obama WH party. He said that one thing he and a couple of other black entertainers were saying was “well, I guess I’ll never play the White House”. B/c not under Dolt45, sure. But also b/c 44 was the first black president. To paraphrase: “maybe under the 12th black president, we’ll have a Wu-Tang Clan revival show; but not under the 2nd or 3rd …”
He was the first black president.
Let’s set aside that he’s certainly temperamentally an institutionalist. Let’s set aside that the conservative wing of the Dem party would have -revolted- if he’d prosecuted the banksters. Let’s just set all that side.
Let’s imagine he was in fact a barn-burner. If for no other reason than the generations of black americans who might aspire to higher office, he HAD to be restrained. Yes, it’s a form of racism that an accomplished black man has to be “a credit to his race”. But there it is — it’s just the way things are. One day, black people will be able to be like all other Americans. But not today. And I’m sure that was in the back of his mind, as he went about governing — that whatever he did, white Americans would be using it to judge all black americans.
I remember reading Ta-Nehisi Coates’ (who isn’t all pollyanna on Obama, by any means) essay “My President Was Black”. And he really lays out how Obama *worked* *hard* to make himself acceptable to white america.
He’s far better than we deserved. And I really do think that, because of his incrementalist demonstration that liberalism works, all of America moved to the left. I think people don’t give him enough credit for that. For demonstrating that government actually works, and works to help Americans.
Funnily enough, there -is- one person who gives him that credit: (albeit from back in 1993) Bill Kristol:
As many others have pointed out, the left attacked him precisely for bringing in so many interest groups (hospitals, docs, pharmas) — the strategy that, today, is bearing fruit in a solid wall of defense of the ACA, by those interests.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Joyce H: Colbert is.
sharl
@clay: Like beloved* cantankerous old crank “Woody” in Atrios’ comments used to say, “In the Corporate State, the corporate media IS the state media” (I don’t know if he got that from somewhere else, or originated it). I think there’s a lot of truth to that, and it ain’t just Fox, though they’re the most blatant when Republicans are in charge.
*kinda-sorta-maybe…
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
I actually wrote that as a second sentence and deleted it. Great minds…
Joyce H
@clay:
And who’s gonna stop me? Huh? Huh?
efgoldman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Most of the people who worry about that shit, at least the leftier-than-thous, can’t be assed to vote.
El Caganer
@Joyce H: I’ll bet he can’t wait to nominate himself for the Supreme Court.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
You can do better…
Mike in NC
@Joyce H: Obviously Trump now considers himself able to cast a tie breaking vote as it applies to Supreme Court decisions.
Roger Moore
@germy:
I think that qualifies as a distinction without a difference.
clay
@Joyce H: Oooo, wait’ll we see what the Deep State has on you!
Taylor
@Baud: I heard that campaign workers in 2008 were told in training to be vague on policy. Like I said, a smart move if you’re running for election and you’re getting crowds and media coverage usually reserved for rock stars, and especially in a country where elections generally run on personality rather than policy (hence people expecting Trump to protect their health insurance, and media showing next to no interest in policy last year).
There were many things different in 2012: It was a Presidential Year, Mitt Romney was running against the 47% who were Not Real Americans, and maybe people had learned to be realistic in their expectations. And I didn’t say that people were personally pissed off at Obama, just that their expectations had been raised to unrealistic levels and they were disappointed and generally pissed off.
Look, I admire Obama immensely. When Congressional Dems like Barney Frank were running for the hills and Rahm was briefing the press that ACA was a bridge too far, Obama and Pelosi rallied the troops. Like many others here, I feel there were things he did that pissed me off, but on balance he brought this country back from disaster, and he did start the ball moving on Climate Change and was starting a dialogue about what automation was going to do to the notion of work.
The specific issue that was raised was, what happened in 2010? This is how I remember it, no doubt others remember it differently. They who do not learn from history and all that.
Tenar Arha
@James Powell: I think that Democrats tend to forget that Republicans will rewrite the rules in their favor. It is a big blind spot, thinking your opponents are motivated by and follow the same rules.
It’s beneficial when you think the best of people in general, especially if you’re trying to negotiate with them. Republicans, on the other hand, have been on a total war footing since Gingrich (historically it’s arguable that part of the party began this with Goldwater/Nixon). This means that the Democratic projection is that there are honorable Republicans to negotiate with, when they haven’t had power since maaybe the 1980’s.
Snarki, child of Loki
cleek should definitely have been credited, though.
Typical NYT : steal stuff from other people, rewrite superficially, and claim it as their own.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Probably not, I’m just a simple caveman photographer.
Keep your eyes on the prize, Baud.
dogwood
@Taylor:
I am reluctant to take seriously anyone who ever thought Obama was an empty suit. That was the meme his distractors used and their little armies repeated it to death. It’s a tell, like “neoliberal”, “corporatist”. Democrats do not vote reliably in midterms. To expect the President could do something about that, or somehow failed despite the fact he had a fairly challenging 24/7 job, also shows you’re pretty disingenuous, or not too swift. I’m pretty tired of people who blame elected officials, or organizations like the DNC for not doing enough. Citizens have to take some responsibility. Maybe there’s some truth to the mommy/ daddy analogy of the two parties. Daddy says vote, and they do what daddy says. Mommy says vote and they say I’ll do it later, or can you help me?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
#EconomicAnxiety
geg6
@Mike in NC:
And then gets his impotent rage on watching the sublime Melissa McCarthy on SNL.
Taylor
@Chet Murthy: All very good points.
And just to be clear, a lot of 2010 was White Supremacy backlash, as represented by Teabaggers, at the election of a Black President.
eclare
@Chet Murthy: Sounds right to me. Still have that issue of The Atlantic, need to read the article.
SufferinSuccotash
@Roger Moore: Which is why parallels with Nazi Germany are so off-base. If you want to play with historical analogies, try the French Right during the Vichy period–a fruit salad of tendencies ranging from reactionary royalism to Catholic medievalism to Italian-style fascism. Mixed nuts.
Chet Murthy
@eclare:
If you’re at all the sort of person who cries in movies, keep the Kleenex handy. I don’t cry, and yet felt a certain tightness in my chest a few times. It could have been TNC’s writing — he’s … well, he’s just in a class with few others alive today. But part was the expression of the … whimper … in my heart, that he’s gone, and we’re left with … *this*.
Jeffro
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
You know, if he gets cranky enough and tells someone – anyone – that he’s quitting, we need to be prepared to move quickly and take that as his statement of resignation, no backsies!!!
jl
@dogwood:
” I’m pretty tired of people who blame elected officials, or organizations like the DNC for not doing enough. Citizens have to take some responsibility. ”
I think that ‘doing enough’ to win elections is part of a politician’s and party organization’s job descriptions. I don’t know whether Obama or the DNC didn’t ‘do enough’ or just didn’t have a good strategy, or didn’t have a good response to the cons the GOP was selling. But the result was very bad for Democrats, and loss in state races is one of the reasons our current mess is so bad.
Frankensteinbeck
@Taylor:
The backlash election predicted by all the election modelers based on Democrats holding all the houses of government and accomplishing major legislation. That is one thing I remember clearly. I had hoped for better, and it turned out almost exactly like the numbers guys said it would going in.
Tom Q
In all this discussion of Why Did Dems Lose So Badly in 2010, is anyone going to note the fact that unemployment was over 10%?
You can justly argue that that was all on Bush, the fallout from the economic meltdown. But the fact is, the president’s party when the economy’s in shape like that is bound to take a hit at the ballot box. All other reasons pale next to that.
Jeffro
@Joyce H:
Meh – it’s worth about as much as any other degree from Liberty.
eclare
@Chet Murthy: Yes, I am, thank you. Full disclosure: middle aged white lady. Repulsed at what is happening. I cannot believe what is going on.
Roger Moore
@Tenar Arha:
I think there’s a deeper problem with the Republicans’ tendency to ignore established norms, which is those norms are as essential for democracy as the written rules. That presents Democrats with a dilemma. If they continue to follow the norms until the Republicans have shredded them (and sometimes continue to follow them even after that), they cede a huge tactical advantage to the Republicans. But if they proactively shred the norms on the assumption the Republicans would as soon as they’re given a chance, they’re undermining democracy themselves. This isn’t a dilemma for the Republicans because they’ve completely given themselves over to the doctrine of rule or ruin, so destroying democratic norms doesn’t hurt their long-term plans.
ThresherK
@Jeffro: From a place where the real degrees are fake, he got an Honorary Law Degree?
Run with it, Mr. President! Go back to what you’re
goodless bad at: You can be the guest host for Mock Trial With J. Reinhold.?BillinGlendaleCA
@Tom Q: Couple that with: they’re going to take your insurance away and “death panels” and the governing party can’t win.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I was just seeing something similar to this on another thread– a thread grown from a tweet by paleo-conservative Tom Nichols, so FWIW… anyway, Nichols theory is the Democratic Party “immolated itself for the sake of Barack Obama” and is therefore every bit as culty as the GOOPers supporting trump. I would disagree with this if I had the slightest idea what Nichols was talking about. He’s said that before and never explains himself.
But a couple of liberals in the thread (no doubt Very Serious, Reasonable liberals, I have no doubt) who concede that as much as they like Obama he was a terrible party leader. I genuinely don’t get this. Are we really proposing that it’s Obama’s fault that the state legislatures in Ark, WVA and Alabama turned R in 2016? that Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor would’ve been reelected if Obama had… what? That the Democrats have a weak gubernatorial bench in IL is his fault? That Mark Udall– on substance one of my favorite pols, but a lousy retail campaigner– ran a shitty campaign against a blandly smooth (or smoothly bland) shapeshifter who managed to sell himself as a pleasant young man? for Ebola? Specifically in 2010, I remember Obama holding huge rallies with cheering supporters in WI and OH, didn’t work. Why not? My number one theory is, besides a continuingly weak economy, the old people who vote in mid-terms were more scared of the black guy than they were of losing Social Security and Medicare, a traditionally strong issue for down ticket Dems.
ETA: adding: IIANM, Christie, LePage and Scott were all boosted in their first elections by third party candidates, and all were re-elected. I’m tempting the annoying gremlin that goes by two initials, but somebody’s going to have to explain to me how Obama is to blame for those races.
Timurid
@SufferinSuccotash:
That’s actually very typical of extremist movements. The Nazis were different mainly because one faction quickly became dominant and sidelined or outright eliminated all the others once they’d outlived their usefulness.
Betty Cracker
@Taylor: I think the charge that PBO was vague on policy in 2008 is bullshit. Not only did he discuss his proposals in a fair amount of detail, he had a book out that described his governing philosophy comprehensively. Also, I was an OFA volunteer, and I don’t recall being told to be vague on policy.
PPCLI
@Mike in NC: topped off by a wafer thin mint
A Ghost to Most
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Fuckem.
Those worthless bungholes are trying to interpret what happened from tracks in the sand, while the kracken is stomping the city.
dogwood
@Taylor:
You really do repeat inaccurate shit don’t you. “I heard they . . .” The Obama volunteers were well schooled in his positions. I had two ex- students who went to Obama Camp. But I’m pretty sure any smart candidate would be very careful to tell volunteers not to get too much in the weeds on details that the candidate needs to be consistent on. And I’m dead tired of people making up fake stories about Rahm when it comes to the ACA. He advised the President against it as a piece of political advise, and when the a president decided to go for it he worked his ass off to get it passed. We might not have the ACA if it weren’t for Rahm. In the 11th hour the house and Senate dueling dems were in the Roosevelt room with the President. He was trying to bring them to some consensus. After a few hours, at close to midnight, Rahm sent Obama a note telling him to take a 10 minute break. He and the Pres. went in the Oval and Rahm told him they were arguing in order to get his attention. Both sides want Obama to make the decision so the winners could claim some victory . Rahm gave him some advise and Obama went back in the room. After a couple more minutes of bickering, the President stood up, told the group he was disgusted with them, and he was going to bed. He walked out and 20 minutes later Rahm called up to the Residence to tell him the deal was done. True story, not fake news.
ThresherK
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I never read a Tom Nichols column at the host site. I don’t need to swan-dive into that sewer.
Saying that, the idea that Very Serious, Reasonable liberals are the ones in that thread surprises me not.
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think this is the kind of thing you ought to expect from the never trump conservatives who have actually stuck with it. They are principled enough to oppose trump, but they’re still enough of Republicans that they can’t resist taking the occasional swipe at the Democrats. They are also desperate to avoid admitting that trump (or someone like him) is a predictable consequence of the direction they’ve been pushing the Republican party, so they’re desperate to find some way that he’s all the Democrats’ fault. If they could accept their responsibility, they’d stop being Republicans as part of their never trump stand.
Jeffro
@ThresherK:
You are SO on the right track! He’d make an outstanding successor to Judge Judy, really. It’s ideal & entertaining on multiple levels. Pontificating endlessly on trivial bullshit, providing entertainment for the same folks that are in his base, no longer able to access the nuclear codes…I think we might have a plan here.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jeffro: hmmm… I believe Judge Judy is the highest rated and highest paid reality show personality, which means she beat… trump. I think we’ve found the real source of his rage. Not Obama’s routine at that dinner, but Judge Judy.
James Powell
@Tom Q:
Especially if the president and his party have gone out of their way not to blame the opposition for the economy, nor to allow any investigations into how it got that way, nor to spend their first two years in office working their asses off to help or at the very least to look like their trying to help.
Ruckus
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:
A lot of people thought bush the lessor had beat the shit out of anything to do with honor but probably didn’t really understand how much of our system is based upon the honor system. But bush the lessor at least had heard the word honor and had some understanding that it was important. dumpf has no idea what the word or concept of honor means. None, nada, zip, zero….. His concept of everything is fuck over everyone else before they fuck over you. If he had any competence at anything that might have served him far better, because he wouldn’t have such a problem with his tiny, tiny little brain and it’s replacement, an ego the size of all outdoors.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
ISTM that what happened on Obama’s watch was the nationalization of far more elections than ever used to be the case, leading to the mass extinction of the kinds of conservative Democrats who used to get elected because of local tradition, like same-sex-marriage foe Kim Davis. The voters who used to vote for conservative Democrats in those races voted for conservative Republicans instead.
I’m reasonably confident that what happened is that, thanks to Fox News and talk radio, Obama was demonized as too black-friendly and too liberal, starting as far back as the debate over the stimulus, which suffused the Democratic Party’s image at all levels–to the point where Democratic candidates in AG and state legislature races and so forth had a hard time avoiding the tar of that brush (if you catch my drift).
This is also why I consider it foolhardy to trot out, as that unnameable commenter often does, the notion that what turned the tide was disaffection among left-leaning Democrats over squandered possibilities. If that were the case Obama wouldn’t have remained as popular among Democrats, especially self-described liberals, as he has.
FlipYrWhig
@dogwood: Hadn’t heard that tale — interesting! Reminds me of when the professor sends the students home because if they haven’t done the reading it’s a waste of everyone’s time. :)
ThresherK
@dogwood: That’s some first-rate, maybe even LBJ-level, personal politicking.
ThresherK
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
JWR
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve been talking with a quite Liberal friend about this sort of stuff, and said Liberal friend just can’t see race or racism or, as Digby writes about, “Tribalism”, as having much at all to do with electoral politics in this country. For my part, I see it as a huge problem, one the Republicans have eagerly embraced, and that the purity Left denies even exists. Also too, AM talk radio.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Roger Moore: I forget what mailing list I got stuck on, something run by Jane Hamsher, when Rahm(!) first ran for mayor. They sent out a fund-raiser for his opponent with the message “Stop Rahm!”. It was of course years ago, but I don’t think they ever, in said email, made the case for his opponent other than he was notRahm(!).
Taylor
@Betty Cracker: @dogwood: Thanks for the clarifications. I was stating how I remembered it, and I sincerely appreciate the corrections.
@Betty Cracker: I didn’t really understand Obama’s personal philosophy until I saw his DNC speech last year. I do feel he wasted a lot of time in his first term due to naivete about his political opposition, I found it personally frustrating, but Chet’s point is well taken. I’ll still say that voters projected what they wanted onto him in 2008, but maybe that’s just a feature of US Presidential elections. What pissed me off was seeing the same kind of thing with the Bernistas last year.
@dogwood: Thanks for the inside story. In my defense, I was complimenting Obama for the critical role he played in getting ACA passed.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Jesus. This stupid shit again.
Sunny Raines
people really need to stop thinking of trump in any conventional sense of POTUS, or even a pol. trump is a WWF actor – that’s it. His only objective and purpose is outrage; outrage that will continue unabated and escalate as long as it is allowed. The people with the power to stop trump’s outrage show – today’s republicans need to think long and hard right now about trump as WWF outrage actor before trump provides his ultimate outrage and diversion from the political reality of increasing dislike of him, military action, and in particular nuclear war military action.
The republicans with the power to preempt trump’s military-sourced outrages should not be under any delusion in thinking that trump won’t go there”
Corner Stone
@dogwood: This comes from?
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Tom Nichols is a fucking asshole. Nothing he says, starts, generates or concludes should be considered useful.
His book “Death of Expertise” is a fucking joke given that he votes Republican.
Betty Cracker
@Taylor: If you didn’t understand PBO’s governing philosophy until 2016, that’s on you. It was widely available and repeatedly invoked for damn near a decade.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: Like I said, I’m curious about what he thinks he means by “the Democratic Party immolated itself for the sake of Barack Obama”, cause that’s not dissimilar to a lot of what you hear from certain quarters of the Left
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
Hell, yes, elections were nationalized in 2010. I can’t believe we’ve had this whole goddamned thread without a single person remembering that Citizens United was decided in January of 2010 and the Koch brothers and other billionaires immediately set up unaccountable Super PACs dedicated to electing Republicans at every level.
No wonder we keep having the same arguments when people keep forgetting vital events.
ThresherK
@Sunny Raines: Trump is a WWF actor – that’s it
With the exception that WWF performers can concentrate hard enough to follow a script, or at least an outline, for two hours.
dogwood
@Corner Stone:
It comes from a a 3 or 4 part documentary from the BBC on Obama’s first term. It was related on camera by WH staff. I admit I don’t remember if Rahm told part of the story or it was entirely related by others.
Tenar Arha
@Roger Moore: I don’t really know the answer to this conundrum either. I think we have to be honest with people that we’re still (fundamental nature of party towards trusting people) going to be fool me once shame on you, but emphasize that if they even try twice and we’ll bring the hammer down. Combined with knowing the enemy. Ex. The only reason Kobach & Sessions are in this administration are to suppress the vote, which means that getting & keeping people registered to vote & getting out the vote is key starting now, for every election. Then, when we win we have to have a plan to make their cheating not just something that’s punished but unsustainable.
ETA (fundamental…)
dogwood
@FlipYrWhig:
I read a lot of books and watch CSpan and documentaries about politics and the Presidency. If you get all your information from blogs, you miss a lot and sometimes memes and misinformation become accepted fact. Left leaning blogs never spend much time telling interesting stories about their own side. On blogs you can say pretty much anything even it it isn’t exactly true as long as it complies with an acceptable narrative and you won’t be questioned. But I tell the Rahm story and I have to provide a source.
Mike G
“Remain”? When was this written, 1917? Does it include the latest dispatches from the Battle of Ypres?
dogwood
@Taylor:
And thanks for being polite when I was being bitchy. Living in Trumpland I’m losing my patience for lies, half truths and false narratives. You just caught me at a bad moment.
Seth Owen
@Baud: I distinctly remember warning bells being run about likely big losses in 2010. Oddly, that experience is somewhat comforting now, because the same kind of indicators are suggesting a similar wave in 2018, which will be needed to overcome gerrymandering.
My concern is getting to 2018 in one piece. We’re a long way from there.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Romans had a unwritten constitution and it blew up into a series of civil wars when one politican or another said “frak it, stop me if you can” that killed off the elite who made up the body of elders who knew the rules and the Roman Republic died
NobodySpecial
The only thing I’ll blame Obama for (and it’s not really his fault) in 2010 was that OFA virtually disappeared after 2008. A lot of people who were gung ho thought as soon as Obama was elected with majorities in both Houses, the battle was effectively over and all that remained was divvying up the spolis. He and they did not realize what the Republicans were willing to sink to.
Chet Murthy
@Taylor: Taylor, do you remember
(1) when PBHO & the Dems tried to pass a bigger stimulus, only to get cut off at the knees by the Rs and Blue Dogs?
(2) the discussion about nationalizing the banks (on the model of Walter Bagehot’s dicta — provide liquidity, but at a stiff price), and EVERYBODY started talking about “we can’t have -communism-”
(3) Leiberman, Nelson, Bayh, etc — all Blue Dogs (yeah, Holy Joe too, b/c he’s a d*ck) pushing the ACA hard to the right?
There was a *lot* of resistance to the Dem’s program, even outside of the ACA. And something else that Scott Lemieux (I think) pointed out over and over, is that even with the way his administration fell short over and over, he brought with him an entire -cadre- of good government types. He has argued that THAT is really what you’re voting for, when you vote for a candiate: WHAT SORT OF PEOPLE WILL HE APPOINT? And on this measure, he did a great job (yes yes, with notably rare exceptions *grin* but even there, ISTR there was a lot of discussion that he really didn’t have a choice — the Rs were screaming for R daddies, and at the time, Reid hadn’t nuked the filibuster for appointees) … as we can see from the massive change from the guy he replaced and the who replaced him.
Look: I also think he could have done better. But (as others up-thread have noted) that’s ON US. -We- had to provide him the room to do better. Look at what happened with LGBT marriage equality. DOES ANYBODY think that Obama wasn’t ALL for it, from the get-go? He took the positions he took for the same reasons that Clinton did — if you want to effect change, YOU MUST GOVERN, and to govern, YOU MUST WIN ELECTIONS. If you have to compromise to win elections, you do it. But when the time came, he was pretty damn quick to switch positions, eh? And that tells us all we need to know about what he thought his flexibility was, during the 2008 election, doesn’t it? Because I think we’d all agree that he’s one of the most gifted pols in our lifetimes. To think that he couldn’t gauge the mood of the American people (and perhaps just as important, of the opinion-makers and Village media (VDE! VDE!)) … well, I think that’s just inconceivable.
James Powell
@JWR:
The only thing more common than evidence of deeply rooted racism in American politics is people denying that there is deeply rooted racism in American politics. And really it’s not just politics, it permeates the culture.
Jeffro
@Corner Stone:
You certainly warned me off of it a couple weeks ago!
Sasha
Trumpism! Fuck me. I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.
Theodore Wirth
It’s more like “my dick is longer than Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III is tall, so feck ya’ll.” So in essence, their dicks are about as big as Trump’s thumbs. Sad.