This news alert just popped up from WaPo:
Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador
President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said that Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.
The information Trump relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.
The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said that Trump’s decision to do so risks cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and National Security Agency.
What the actual FUCK? Is pissing off intelligence-sharing partners part of the
30-day 115-day plan to defeat ISIS? Much more at the link, including a denial from McMaster and many additional damning details / statements of disbelief that anyone could be as fucking stupid as Trump from unnamed officials. IMO, the latter are more credible.
But her emails!
ETA: I wish I could say I was surprised, but I was expecting this shoe to drop. OF COURSE the traitor would commit espionage against the United States in the White House.
Steeplejack Mensch strikes again!
You were giving him the benefit of the doubt, just this morning. In case of T, one is always better off assuming the worst.
I just read that. HO LEE FUCK. Instead of whinging at Dems, I swear we should be flooding every GOP office and media outlet with the question of how much treason will you force this country to tolerate?
Of course he fuq’n did…smh
Mike in NC
I believe Trump is monitored by the Russians 24/7. Every move is reported to the Kremlin.
And you know it’s bulletproof. Delay in publishing was probably the WaPost’s lawyers going over it a thousandth time.
You beat me to it, Betty! This is just horrible news. People will die.
Even if he does, that’s secondary to appearing to be a BIG MAN.
Well, worst for a presumably human being.
Accusations of being an actual Hell-spawn abomination from outside of our universe are still beyond belief.
Obligatory: BUT HER EMAILS!!!!!
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Shout out to Steeplejack… your source was good.
Just in time for the evening news, no? And this is the opposite of a Friday night news dump.
Were these actual allies’ secrets? Really, why bother safeguarding those. Its not like they are powerful. That’s why they need us. I say, kick our allies until they lend Invanka money. We don’t need friends anyway. Because we’re awesome and everyone is laughing at us because they’re jealous of us.
from the WaPo article.
And I predict this is how my local TV news stations will frame it.
@Peale: As I said earlier, at this point I expect Germany and France to declare war on us within 48 hours of Trump landing in Europe.
It’s gonna be hard to find someone else to blame for this. But that doesn’t mean he won’t try.
Impeachable offense number 2,546. Lock him up.
@ruemara: Sounds like a plan to me. This is fucking outrageous.
but hey… we’re getting rich people their tax cuts, honestly, what else on Earth could be more important than that?
Spillage on isle two
Another interesting question is who leaked this. Had to be someone who was involved in the Russia meeting AND who knew that this information was so highly classified.
It was only a matter of time.
@ruemara: @Betty Cracker:
” just how much danger are you willing to expose the country to Mr. Republican representative and/or Mr. Republican senator ?”
If it isn’t true, someone will get fired quickly. If that doesn’t happen, there’s your proof.
@Cheryl Rofer: The Russians!
@Cheryl Rofer: And… is there a recording of the conversation?
@Cheryl Rofer: pence or priebus ( I don’t know who was in on the meetings but those are my guesses)
It never fails…
@Jeffro: Or, maybe it was that TASS photographer.
“Get back to me when under 66% of self-declared Republican voters support him.”
There is a lot of information here that can probably be deciphered by the parties involved. Some ugly stuff is about to happen. We may not hear about the deaths, but there probably will be some.
@? Martin: Isn’t that amazing? There really is a Trump tweet calling out every Trump fuck up!
is it time for to say ‘but her e-mails’ again :-)
@germy: The Aristocrats!
@MattF: Sounds like it. WaPo reporting that the WH staff wanted the full transcript of the meeting limited to just a few people. Can’t have a transcript without a recording.
If I were Canada, Britain, Australia or New Zealand I would disconnect all Intel sharing with the US immediately.
This is not hyperbole. Trump is going to kill us all with his hilarious combination of stupidity, incompetence, and untreated dementia.
MSNBC reporting now…with caveat “NBC unable to confirm”
CNN still not reporting yet.
I’m at the point where I think the shortest to travel for a cure to this problem is the
25th Amendment. Impeachment is hard, there are crimes, proof witnesses, testimony, lot of people lying about things, lawyers, double-speak. Very time-consuming.
For the 25th, all you have to do is come together and agree that the guy is an idiot. Fire him, so to speak. The pile of evidence that Trump is simply a moron is getting taller and taller.
–>The 25th: no now knew it could be so easy.
Trump thinks he’ll impress foreign leaders with his new information, as if to say, “See how much I know? I get the Best Intel, the Greatest, because I’m President and everyone tells me the best news”. Nevermind that it’s classified.
But why would anyone on staff tell him anything that might be potentially dangerous? He’s got a brain like a sieve and absolutely no filter between his brain and his mouth. I wouldn’t trust him with the weather forecast, much less secret data.
But then, he’s covered, because if the president does it, it’s allowed.
Paging Speaker Ryan…paging Speaker Ryan…
It’s simple: Individuals who are ‘extremely careless’ w/ classified info should be denied further access to it.
6:36 PM – 7 Jul 2016
@Cheryl Rofer: The Russians aren’t stupid. They probably had a pretty good idea about how sensitive the information was, so it very well could have been leaked by the Russians. Anything to keep the chaos level up
@Betty Cracker: It’s uncanny. But, in a way not too surprising. In a narcissist the false self is really there to protect the true self. It’s not uncommon for the false self to attack the very things that the true self is vulnerable to. See: Gay republicans being the most virulently homophobic legislators.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
a national security aide (I have no idea how these things work) who went straight to McMaster?
If it’s true that MSNBC is ready to get rid of Lawrence O’Donell cause Cheeto Prez let it be known he doesn’t like Lawrence…I’m NOT surprised that MSNBC don’t want to be all on this…
As for CNN…who knows…
@germy: Probably not. He is too useful to them in place. Even a big fuck you to the US isn’t worth losing that. The Russians are smarter than Trump.
@MattF: Maybe no longer. I can’t imagine that Trumpies aren’t deleting stuff like crazy. But there’s Trump’s Razor, which says that the dumbest thing you can imagine will be the outcome.
@Jeffro: I think I recall seeing that they were in the meetings. Of the two, I’d say that Priebus is the more likely. I’ve been thinking that some of the juciest leaks may be coming from a secretary or note-taker, someone who is in the loop but not a major political player. No particular reason beyond that they may not have been vetted for loyalty to Trump in the same way the politicals are.
The Moar You Know
Here’s what I want to know: who was stupid enough to give him this info? OF COURSE the bumblefuck was going to leak it to the worst people possible, that was inevitable. So who handed him this?
ETA: should add that the president can declassify anything he wants (he’s the originator of classification, legally) so no crime committed, unfortunately. But seriously, you don’t give a guy like Trump real sensitive info or sources. He will blab.
@? Martin: Retweeted — thanks!
@Wjs: Yep. I’ve read articles here and there indicating that other countries are scared to share stuff with Trump. With good reason, apparently!
Has anyone asked Comey to offer a gratuitous comment on Trump’s recklessness?
Gee, I wonder why Putin asked for Trump to meet with them?
Never gonna happen. They’re all in too deep now.
Back to the drawing board.
Uh..huh…let’s see if they’ve really got the goods on Graham…we already know…McCain is trying to get Cindy a job…so…
I definitely think that the intelligence apparatus for all allies should be like “get back to us when you have a new President”
Joke’s on Alex. In Trump world, we have no allies.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
he’s trying to impress two of (from what I’ve read) particularly and relentlessly hostile foreign nationals
Stepping on Cheryl’s and Adam’s territory, but that sounds like somebody high up wanted this info public as soon and as loudly as possible. The leak/info was carefully negotiated with the Washington Post
Trump’s razor, the worst explanation is the correct one.
@The Moar You Know: He’s the president. He has access to everything, and given that he alone can declassify anything for any reason, it’s inappropriate to deny him access to information that he should need to do his job.
You can’t protect people from the things they are supposed to be responsible for – instead, you need to hold them accountable. And I guarantee that the defense here will be that the President felt that was important information for the Russians to know so he declassified it, and Trump will go out there and talk about how stupid it has been that previous Presidents wouldn’t do that and leave key allies in the dark. And of course about 27%-39% of the public will sign onto that bit of bullshit.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Disposable pawns and enemies. Those are the only status you may have in Trumpworld. Assignment is subject to change immediately and without notice.
@Jeffro: Exactly. Over and over again.
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire
@Cheryl Rofer: McMaster. ?
Wait, did he do this in the same meeting in which a Russian state photographer/cameraman was present?
Jesus H. Christ, what a fuck-up. What a colossal fuck-up. The man AND the event itself, both separate fuck-ups Voltron’d into a larger, more capable fuck-up capable of fucking up over twice the amount as the individual parts. >_<
It’s true the President can declassify anything, but in the normal order of things, that would include paperwork and notifications to the agencies, who would have screamed back NOOOO! on this one.
But it may protect him from legal action. However, impeachment is a political process. Looking at you, Republicans.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I don’t think Priebus or Pence are smart or brave enough to go against trump like this
there’s two candidates, no?
@Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire: a Mark-Felt-like player is certainly possible.
@TenguPhule: That’s not Trump’s razor. Trumps razor is that when trying to understand Trump’s behavior, ascertain the stupidest possible scenario that can be reconciled with the available facts, and that answer is likely correct.
Not necessarily the worst outcome, just the stupidest. Worst implies a sort of evil genius that he lacks. Instead, he’s just a toddler pushing buttons at random in a nuclear-equipped bomber.
I don’t think the President is stupid, he thinks laws and rules are for little people, not him. He has yet to be proven wrong.
Yep, the one only the Russians saw and took photos of.
But her emails!
And the elephant rolled over and went to sleep.
Yeah, don’t expect any help from them. Going to need to dine on grilled elephant steaks.
“Oh, Prezident Trumpski, you likink’ camera? Here, is yours; I takink out card having pictures of you for publishink and you can keepink camera, wiss my complements! Here, let’s puttink on desk by telephone.”
@Cheryl Rofer: If I had to guess, McMaster learned of Trumps fuck-up and okayed the leak to the WaPo, knowing there was no fucking way he’d be able to get the clown show in the rest of the WH to do a damn thing. Probably was pissed as all hell that the meeting took place to begin with.
@Cheryl Rofer: That really cuts down the number of likely suspects, eh?
@Cheryl Rofer: E.g., someone whose career is dedicated to protecting classified information, and then sees Trump blow it all away.
@TenguPhule: It’s getting to the point where I think the nation is functionally over. At least in my more morose moments.
If the Republicans can’t decry this with more than a “We have some mild concerns” then there’s really no hope left for us as a continuing, rational state. Even if the Democrats get back the house/senate/Presidency, this kind of stupid tribalism is just too large to overcome over the long term. Just… what the Hell, guys?
@TenguPhule: Honestly, at this point, I expect us to declare war on Estonia and Latvia for the audacity of joining NATO a decade ago.
@schrodingers_cat: Oh, he’s profoundly stupid. He has no intellectual curiosity at all, and no ability for complex thought.
But that doesn’t imply that he doesn’t also think that rules are for lesser people. He definitely believes that as well.
@Peale: I think they’re safe. Trump has no idea they exist.
Somewhat off to the side, but a friend did an analysis of the photo at the top of that WaPo article. The photo, of course, was taken by that Russian photographer and released by the Russian Foreign Ministry.
@? Martin: Yet Rs thought he was an excellent choice to be the President.
If Steeplejack got tipped to this big WaPost story coming out a few hours ago, you have to think some of the powers that be on Capitol Hill also heard. Possibly Republicans. Oh, to be a fly on the wall over there, listening to the GOP, as they decide how to respond, given that their spines have all apparently been kyped.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@? Martin: stupid, arrogant, weak… he’s all kinds of things wrapped up in one flabby fake-tanned package
he needed to brag about his briefings to the Russians
@MisterForkbeard: I know people keep thinking I’m fantasizing about a Civil War herein the states. But I’m deadly serious about the increasing likelyhood of it happening.
The Republican party has gone all in on treason. There’s no going back because they’ve burned every bridge behind them by following Cleek’s law to the letter. This isn’t going to end well for anyone, but that’s not going to stop the GOP rank and faithful from believing they are going to come out on top of this meltdown.
CNN still not reporting, not even a blurb like MSNBC did.
Instead they are talking North Korea oh and “could Osama Bin Laden’s young son be reigniting the war with Al Queada”…or something…
I’m def gonna have to check out the nightly news to see if any of them lead or report it
@Cheryl Rofer: That picture. It’s the prey animal in the midst of its predators.
If the Russians were yelping like coyotes, it could not be any clearer. They look like wolves.
@Elizabelle: see germy at 14. They’re going to go with “technically its not illegal” defense. Its all they have left short of actually ignoring the law entirely.
I’m gonna guess they got this from whichever ally provided us with the information trump gave away. They’d certainly have the motivation.
I strongly disagree, based on all available evidence.
@bt: I believe there are other options that have been used in the past. Just pointing something out…
@Roger Moore: That’s a good one.
Of course it is. Next we’ll find out that actual files changed hands.
Here’s the BuzzFeed link.
I’m hearing him do a singsong ? “I know a secret, and you-oo do-on’t, nyanh nyanh nyanh nyanh” ?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Victor was press flack for OBama’s NSC
And so the Washington Post now takes up the crown of the 4th estate that was so casually thrown away by the FYNYT.
@lamh36: “What did he do now?”
@Smiling Mortician: OK correction, his stupidity has not yet affected him adversely. So far he has been insulated from its effects.
well… some of us have speculated that treason is the bottom line, nadir of what has been ongoing. I suppose that the next week will allow us to know, just how far the treason goes… we’ll see if scoutmaster Mitch and best boy Paul are also included. If so, then we’re going to have a very “exciting” 18 months, and see if elections are even held. At this trajectory, I’m starting to wonder if that is now more of a real possibility.
Of course, this is exactly Putin’s long-term goal. Who cares about some Israeli spy ring in the Syrian desert when you can smash the Special Relationship?
The Everloving PHUCK ???
The curve given to inadequate Mediocre White Men is REAL!!
What would happen if this had been 44 or Hillary?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Transcript could be from a note-taker.
@TenguPhule: I talked to someone this weekend who was convinced that all of these legit problems of Trump and the R-Party were all just projections from liberals, who were the REAL traitors and idiots who couldn’t form sentences but wanted to destroy the country. He had this amazing, completely wrong viewpoint on everything even down to factually incorrect minor details, even attributing things like ‘media reports on opposition research from Republicans about Trump” as “Democrats lying and making up rumors about Trump”, even when much of the oppo has been confirmed by the intelligence services.
I don’t know what’s going on there at all. I don’t know how to combat this. Because if you stay in the Breitbart/Fox/ConservaRadio bubble, this weird alternate reality is the truth and literally everyone trying to break you out of that bubble is a liberal traitor that KNOWS they’re lying about everything.
@lamh36: Oh god. I need to come up with a better metaphor than “several fuckups Voltron’d into a larger fuckup”, because this is getting worse all the time.
And nothing will actually happen and this fucktard will win reelection easily after he pantses the Democratic nominee at the first debate (“Gutsy!” – Politico), and maybe even suspend the 22nd amendment if he’s still alive at that point, FUCK.
@lamh36: Dems are going to have to come up with a boilerplate to go along with the R’s soon-to-be archetype of “White House aide is told ‘Trump is on Twitter’, mutters Jesus in front of reporter”.
“It’s so hard to find a good present for Putin. Something he doesn’t already have. I want to give him something he’ll actually use. But also make him smile. Ivanka! Ask Wendi to find out what he wants.”
So the leak could have come from anywhere. Clearly one of the intelligence agencies was notified, since I think that’s the only possible explanation for the Senate being briefed.
Yeah. As Jim highlighted upthread:
Brag brag brag.
Gag. I don’t think Trump is stupid, in the manner of many of his supporters, but he is not remotely qualified for his job. Totally out of his league. He would not even be the preeminent real estate developer; sharper ones eat his lunch day in and day out. And now he’s taken his cluelessness international.
I wonder what ISIS is attempting to do, that involves laptops and jets. I guess we can just stay tuned.
The 25th Amendment is actually harder than impeachment, at least in terms of the numbers. For impeachment, you need a simple majority in the House and a 2/3 majority in the Senate. For 25th Amendment, you need the VP and a majority of the cabinet to get it off the ground and 2/3 in each house of Congress to sustain them when the President inevitably disputes his incompetence.
@TenguPhule: Shocking, but unsurprising. I have to agree.
Jack the Second
Goddamn that’s pitiful. Trump gives up classified intelligence to show off to couple of aging Russian bureaucrats how smart and powerful he is?
At least with a different President of a different era the Russians would have at least had to send a woman to sleep with him and get it out as pillow-talk.
Rats on a sinking ship?
Trump facehugged America. The chestburster that emerged is still growing.
And the Doomsday predictors are here. I hope that the Rs are paying you well, for sowing all this negativity all the fucking time.
CNN finally reporting…guess they waited for the 5’oclock news hour
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Greta Van Susteren has one of the WaPo reporters. I’ll wait for the other one to show up with Hayes or Maddow
oh what the shit is this. i mean, come the fuck on with this.
Well, at least this explains why the two Russians were grinning so broadly in that TASS photo.
Predicting that the Republicans will do absolutely nothing about this has been right so far for everything else.
Just because you hate the universe we live in doesn’t mean its our fault for explaining the natural laws of it.
Or someone looked at the photos from TASS and went oh my fucking god!
@schrodingers_cat: Well, of course. He’s a rich white male. Do you have any idea exactly how badly we need to fuck up before our own tribe has to disown us?
Adam won’t agree, but I’d bet McMaster wishes Spicer could make some room for him in those bushes.
@ruemara: Unfortunately, the GOP isn’t going to lift a finger to take any action against their Dear Leader — at least while he’s promising them huge tax cuts for the rich and Muslim bans and walls to keep out all those icky Brown people. But there is no doubt that Trump is doing his best to give Congress ample evidence that he needs to be impeached or otherwise forced out of office. He is becoming worse each and every day.
There is no pivot. There will never be a pivot.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: yea…Greta and her stone face can kick rocks…
From the ACLU just now (slightly OT): Today, the ACLU submitted a request to the Department of Justice and the FBI asking for the release of all documents relating to President Donald Trump’s decision to remove FBI Director James Comey from office. The cloud of uncertainty swirling over Comey’s dismissal, along with indications that the president may have gravely abused his power, demands a public accounting.
At the time of his dismissal, FBI Director Comey was responsible for overseeing an ongoing investigation into Russian interference in the presidential election and possible collusion between Trump campaign officials and the Russian government.
Trump’s intervention threatens to place him above the law. Investigators and prosecutors should have the independence to follow the facts wherever they lead — even if they lead to the president’s door. Read more about the legal action we’ve taken, and share this breaking news on Facebook and Twitter.
@lamh36: “Well, Senator, sir,… what about this President?”
sorry SC, that’s just my feeling that those in charge are irredeemable. I’ll await some sign that I’m wrong about that and that someone, other than a (D) still gives a shit about the country and our ideals, laws, allies.
@lamh36: Yep. And remember, he’s the renegade among Republicans – and doesn’t need to worry about re-election for 6 years. All the rest will fall readily in line. These guys won’t be the least bit suspicious when Trump offers to bring Kool-Aid to the next GOP caucus retreat.
@Cheryl Rofer: It seems to have been someone at the NSA or CIA who was privy to the fact that WH staffers had to call and inform them about Trump’s idiocy.
@lamh36: Maverick!!! Maverick, I tell ya!
@TenguPhule: I like it. I feel like we need something that indicates a somewhat accidental, freewheeling catastrophe better than that, though. The problem is that he’s really setting the bar for incompetence AND evil at the same time, so it’s hard to come up with a comparison that doesn’t make him look better than he is.
Maybe “Bull in a china shop, but the bull is blindfolded and also on cocaine while the china shop also has a nuclear reactor in it.” Now just to shorten that to 5-6 words for easy media consumption.
@lamh36: And there we go. Republicans are “concerned” but don’t plan to take any action whatsoever or even hint publicly about how bad this really is.
@lamh36: Lord love us and keep us. That is terrifying.
@Patricia Kayden: Don’t think I don’t know that. I’ve been saying that since before he was sworn in. This is about optics and haranguing them. You won’t win the morons you need to without it. I know what I’m talking about because marcomm is what I’ve been stuck with doing now for years.
@schrodingers_cat: re the doomsday predictors: Yeah. I’ve deleted a few comments I was gonna put up about “really, guys?”
@lamh36: Can we call it or can we call it?
Good old McCain, giving all veterans a bad name.
Davis X. Machina
Just a little mir-i-druzhba action between our two great peoples, fraternal expressions of cooperation, that kind of stuff, I am sure.
Why are people so dead-set on better US-Russia ties? We need their cooperation on so many key progressive issues: peace in Syria, the Iran deal. global warming, keeping Mrs. Clinton out of the White House…
He’s just trolling us now. “Yes, I can leak classified information to the Russians, and there’s nothing you can do about it! Isn’t that hilarious? Now about these new condos I just built in the Keys…”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Missed this on my first read
He was in the fucking room? He was in the fucking room.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why does it matter whether Trump does it out of insecurity or disloyalty or even fear? Aldrich Ames was obsessed with his own status and the trappings of privilege rather than being committed to the Soviet Empire. He still sold out his country. And don’t even get me started on Robert Hanssen, the freak who basically did it because he loved knowing things that other people didn’t.
Barbara Starr on CNN pointing out that if this was intel coming from an ally, that we do NOT own the rights to that information. It’s about the confidence that other countries have that they can share resources with the US…
If true and he shared with Russia, Cheeto does NOT know what the Russians already know…and can this info be used by Russia to go after the source of the intel…smh
He had the first genuine smile in that office photo that I’ve seen, like someone who’s proved his worth to his superiors, or someone who believes he’s a member of the club. ‘
@germy: Or: [EXPLETIVE DELETED]?
Well, no actual mention of “treason” in the story, so I totally screwed the pooch. My apologies to everyone for the fake news.
God, and now Greta Van Susteren gets to gum this around for an hour before the A-team comes on MSNBC. I think she just asked somebody if her laptop was going to blow up on an airplane tonight.
@lamh36: McCain doesn’t want to get slapped again by Trump.
But senators need to get elected statewide. I’d imagine some are very, very concerned about their political viability.
Not ours, mind you, but if their careers look endangered. We should work that angle.
@Elizabelle: This isn’t really doomsday. But I’m getting increasingly pessimistic about the future of the country at large if the Republicans are so loyal to Party Over Country that they’ll excuse literally anything.
That said, we absolutely have to (and GET to) fight this. America can and should be a great place, and it’s on us to make sure it stays that way.
This happened last week and didn’t leak here until now. Some of our people told our allies imediately to try and limit the damage. After they did what they could, I imagine the allies leaked this to our papers so we would know. At least somebody high in the administration had a sense of what their duties are and a brain. I suspect Trump will fire them though, the ones who called our allies. He doesn’t get what loyal means in the patriotic sense. Thinks he is king, the stupid twerp.
I kinda think it was deliberate treason, as I think the Russians would want him to last longer if he was an actual agent. This was too blatant and inevitably going to come out. Wow though. I sort of speculated this could happen with Trump, but the reality is still shocking.
Should ANY country share intel with the U.S. as long as trump sits in the Oval Office?
They DARE NOT. Christ, he’s the biggest security risk since Alger Hiss.
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire
It’s way worse than what is being reported?
He gave them the codes to the football?
@Cheryl Rofer: Wasn’t Felt motivated by a president failing to show proper respect for a recently departed FBI director and his legacy?
The dumpster fire has spread to the adjacent building.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Can’t have lowly ‘mercans getting the info he just gave to the Russians.
Really the only reason to tell anyone that you have a HUMINT source is to ensure that the source is killed and that you receive no more information.
Do you know when that tweet was tweeted?
I think he’s stupid AND thinks laws and rules are for little people, not him. He has yet to be proven wrong.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mdblanche: there are those who say Felt felt that Nixon didn’t show the proper respect to a certain Mark Felt when picking Hoover’s successor. But your point is of course cromulent.
@Aleta: So so true. That’s the happiest he’s ever seemed. Yucking it up with the Russians in the Oval Office = proof that he’s finally arrived.
The likely story the admin will run with…
Expect this convo, over on r/The_Donald, to play out repeatedly in the coming days. McMaster with the GOP fig leaf.
A denial notable for the things that it does not deny.
@lamh36: “Risking sources & methods” ? Revealing the work of who knows how many people who are getting information from within ISIS? He’s risking the lives of who knows how many people who are working with information from within ISIS. And their families’ safety and the safety of anyone innocent they interact with. And the life of anyone who’s acting on related intelligence, or whose identity may be mistaken.
Each unethical, illegal, immoral act where the repubs do nothing makes it that much harder and unlikely for them to eventually take a stand. Talking about classified info isn’t that much worse than colluding with the Russians to influence the election which isn’t that much worse than taking money from the Russians. To cry foul now would expose how corrupt they have become. Unfortunately, there will be an event where the costs of doing nothing will outweigh the fallout from getting rid of Trump, but when the bill comes due it’s going to be painful.
@Roger Moore: “Turns out the Dumpster was full of gasoline and plutonium. Whoops.”
@MisterForkbeard: this comment needs to be put in a time capsule and preserved for future generations to enjoy.
@hovercraft: Eqxctly. These two things are not mutually exclusive.
? ?? Goku ? ?
@TenguPhule: So in this hypothetical civil war, how exactly do you see it playing out? What will come after? What kind of belligerents?
The list of people/groups smarter than dumpf has to be nearly 6 billion long. I’d say maybe around 5.985 billion.
Now NYT has the story.
You mean how telling your adversary that you know something not widely shared is a huge first step to getting the source of that knowledge wiped off the planet?
@Hobbes83: I enjoyed writing it immensely. I might frame it.
@MattF: Guess they had to spend time rewriting the story to make sure Trump and Conservatives don’t get offended by it.
? ?? Goku ? ?
@sm*t cl*de: Could someone ELI5?
“Hmm, Estonia and Latvia. Didn’t I date them before I got together with Melania?”
@mdblanche: Jim, Foolish Literalist has your answer.
Okay, that made me LOL. It was a bitter, frightened laugh, but it was a laugh.
He also has zero governmental experience, and this is badly showing. I’d bet even the stupidest members of Congress have some sort of basic knowledge of IC procedures — or at least know they don’t know enough and ask for guidance.
That’s the thing with CEO’s. They’re free agents and masters of their own domains. They can’t be bothered with following process.
Anything about her emails?
here’s a free one for you, WH Press Corps:
“Sean…Sean…HEY SPICEY!!! Could you please tell us the criteria the President is using to decide what he will unilaterally declassify mid-sentence while meeting behind closed doors with representatives of a hostile foreign power? Could you please shed some light on that decision-making process?”
@? ?? Goku ? ?: McMaster explicitly carved out discussing sources or how we got information, and limited his “we didn’t talk about stuff” to ongoing military operations only.
So basically, there’s HUGE amounts of classified and horrible stuff that could still be discussed and still make this a true statement. For example – if Trump wasn’t talking about a Military but Intelligence operation instead. Or given information about the site. Or where we got the information rather than who we got it from, etc.
Fox News says he’s just learning as he goes. An honest mistake. Plus no methods and something, something so no biggie. Mistakes were made.
McMaster has to be one of the leakers. First rule of journalism, guy on the record in a story about something other than himself is almost always one of the anonymous sources in the story. He also gets beaucoup puff pieces, another tell of a source.
The Empire Strikes Back
I don’t understand why McConnell and Ryan still think they need him. They could have approached him after his first meeting with Obama after the election, when he looked totally freaked out by the actual magnitude of the job, and told him if he faked a health crisis and resigned by the end of February they would make it really, really, really worth his while. Then they could have Pence dismantle the social safety net without the spotlight on the GOP ties to Russia.
@? ?? Goku ? ?:
Hey, no fair trying to get TP to plot your post-apocalyptic novel for you! ?
@? ?? Goku ? ?: Here we go, from Josh Marhall:
Also explains why the WH was so very pissed that it was released in the first place.
“Shut the fuck up, Johnny.”
Then today’s news should make their collective head explode.
I thought that was engraved in stone somewhere in a Phoenix mall.
“Among.” It’s “among,” not “in.” How many times does he have to tell you?
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Your vote of confidence embiggens me.
? ?? Goku ? ?
@Mnemosyne: Curses! Foiled again! But yeah, was genuinely curious. Now that you mentioned it, one way I was thinking the world turns into a dystopia is Republicans continue voter suppression while a growing neo-fascist movement made up of Millennials infiltrates gov and military over 20 years. Freedoms gradually eroded and tensions escalate globally. Fascist or at least extremely conservative WH provokes regional nuke war in middle east between Isreal and Iran.
Details would be sketchy for protag in future, as 1984-like gov censors the past
@les: This was the correct thing to do.
Putin has got to be delighted. Any tension or dissension between the US and its allies works in Russia’s favor.
At some point, even the Rs have to realize that the man is over his head — is completely unfit for the job. I’m thinking 25th Amendment rather than impeachment. They wouldn’t even necessarily have to do it, they could simply make it clear that they WILL do it. I think he’d resign. But I have no idea what could make them finally act, and frankly, I don’t want to find out.
they still need trump because if they try to remove him while the Republican voting base still LOVES trump (he’s above 80 percent approval with the GOP voters) they will get creamed in the 2018 midterms.
there are also implications that Ryan AND Pence are compromised. I saw a report this weekend that Sen. Hatch (the Senate Pro Tem) is getting intel briefings as though the 25th Amendment – when it kicks in – will not only remove trump at some point but also the VP Pence (no. 2 on the list) AND Speaker Ryan (no. 3 on the list).
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And it’s a complete non-denial denial. The story doesn’t say that sources and methods were discussed, but that the information that was revealed would allow the Russians to deduce the source.
@rikyrah: They would have been impeached immediately just for announcing they planned to have a meeting with the Russians.
@Elizabelle: They’re going to use THE CYBER, so Trump has turned over security details to Barron.
Have we reached the point where people are going to die because Trump is compelled in engage in dick waving?
Ignorant, traitorous fool.
@schrodingers_cat: No, he’s stupid, but he does also believe himself above laws, rules and procedures. .
@? ?? Goku ? ?:
Yeah, but save it for our next writer’s group thread, which should be coming soon. It makes poor Adam worry that people will read your comments too quickly and think you’re talking about actual events, not fictional ones.
@lamh36: That’s odd. The freaking Buffalo News is reporting it and that is surprising, to say the least.
@PaulWartenberg: If Trump resigned for “poor health”, though, his base should be neutralized. It’s not like he was kicked out; it would have been his choice. And Pence is waiting in the wings to implement all the domestic horrors the GOP has planned without the foreign policy fuckups Trump is now committing.
@danielx: I’m pretty sure we already reached that point a while ago.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@TenguPhule: Imagine the cognizant administrators at the FBI, DIA, CIA, NSA and WTF else getting a memo from the White House a couple of weeks ago demanding a complete list of all our assets working Russian intelligence & counterintelligence anywhere in the world.Then imagine Cheeto Benito in the course of that photo op leaving lying around an SD chip with the data, for the TASS guy to slip into his camera & dowload into files encrypted to look like innocuous digital image & then put back where he found it.
Imagine just how fucked we might be.
Could Twitler be that stupid? Or that compromised?? Or both??? Asking for a fiend…
When you provide a sufficiently specific, itemised accounting of topics that were not mentioned in a meeting, it becomes an admission — a way of saying “OK, topics not on my list, yes, Trump did blab about those.”
I said we are all going to die which is an exaggeration, but people are definitely going to die because of this.
? ?? Goku ? ?
@Mnemosyne: Will do. Hopefully soon. Getting a book from library about short story writing. Trying to do plotting
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I’m old enough to remember when mere accusations of mishandling classified material would prompt an intense FBI investigation, thousands of breathless media condemnations, and calls for “lok em up!”
Oh we hit that when he ordered that strike in Yemen.
Now its just a matter of HOW MANY he’s going to kill before he’s stopped.
Presumed Republicans clearly not in evidence.
@? ?? Goku ? ?: Its gonna be messy. Very messy. Syria and Iraq level messy. There’s zero organization on the side of angels for this and far too many little fascist groups on the other side who are all claiming to be the true Judean People’s Front.
Perhaps Civil War is being too optimistic. Not going to be real clear sides in most places and the federal government is still going to control the lion’s portion.
Complete Civil Breakdown. Where the law only extends as far as there’s enough force to enforce it and only while there’s an occupying force there at that particular spot..
@danielx: No, we did that already. With the disastrous military op he signed off on at Mar-A-Lago.
@? ?? Goku ? ?:
See if they have any of K.M. Weiland’s books. If not (or even if they do), she has a very extensive website that’s really good.
@? ?? Goku ? ?:
If your main characters aren’t suffering, that means you’re doing it wrong.
? ?? Goku ? ?
@TenguPhule: If that happens, I call “Worker’s Liberation Army” for my (hypotherical) group
? ?? Goku ? ?
@TenguPhule: When did I ever say that? Trust me, character(s) will suffer ?
Edit: unless that was advice that whooshed over my head at first. Thanks if that’s the case
@Cheryl Rofer: Yeah, there’s a process for declassification, and this ain’t it. In real terms, this info is still classified.
A question to our legal department: At what point does the Republican leadership, in their quest to deflect punishment/removal of Trump, become accessories after the fact?
@bt: But if they do this while Trump is at 90% popularity with GOP voters – and he is; that will be very bad for the GOP.
After Jeff Sessions is AG, at the earliest. More likely never.
@? ?? Goku ? ?: And this is a key point. Avoid firearms. Avoid them like the plague, because they will mark you as a target by all sides.
It’s not going to be a video game, there’s no life meter and you can’t logout after a battle.
Your best defense is to blend in. Running should always be Plan B.
And always pay attention to the people around you. When riots start, they start fast.
@Gelfling 545: Agreed, corrected my original statement, see 99.
trump will never resign. his ego, his id, his narcissism cannot allow that.
Smedley the uncertain
@germy: He can change the label but that doesn’t change the nature and content of the intel; and the DAMAGE!.. Damage to the source and methods and the damage to USA relations with their intel partners. I’d call him a traitor except I don’t think he has any idea what he just did. Wonder what he shared with Xi.
I held a Secret clearance from the mid-80s into the current millennium, working various projects for DoD through various contractors, & on the rare occasions I actually had to use that clearance, I found it noteworthy that what was classified was almost never what our own team could do, rather what we knew about what the other team could do. I recall running across the notation WNINTEL for the first time & having it explained to me that Warning Notice INTELligence meant that whoever had gotten us that information would be in a heap of trouble if the other team knew we knew that & started to work out who told us. I thought most of the classification rigmarole was bogus, but not WNINTEL, because you could almost feel the weight of a human life in your hands.
@MisterForkbeard: Yeah, people I find credible have been fairly spluttering that McMaster’s ‘denial’ was of the non-denial variety, since he was saying sources and methods weren’t discussed. Dude, they didn’t have to be for Russia to figure out where the intel came from. Shit, man.
“The story that came out tonight, as reported, is false” says McMasters. That little bit between the commas seems very, very important.
It was McMaster. That’s my hunch anyway.
I don’t think it’s technically possible for the commander-in-chief to have his security clearance revoked. But here we are.
@MisterForkbeard: Yup. McMaster’s basically trying to assure everyone that the President did not commit outright treason — you know, the shit that gets you landed in the Florence CO SuperMax pen for life — by revealing top secret sources and methods to the fucking Russian ambassador in the Oval Office. But he didn’t actually refute the WaPo’s reporting that Trump gave the Russians enough details about the intelligence we do have to allow them to easily deduce the country that provided it and the city where our intel assets gathered the information.
Well, the last time a rich white guy fucked up so badly, we got a black President. Who knows what we’ll get after Trump.
@Uncle Cosmo: If the agencies are smart, they give him a list of non-assets who are important to the proper functioning of Russia’s IC and government in general.