Some good voting rights news from Alabama:
“Many” Alabama felons will soon regain the right to vote if Gov. Kay Ivey signs a bill that landed on her desk Thursday morning, according to advocates.
The bill, called the Definition of Moral Turpitude Act, passed both houses of the state legislature Wednesday, a victory for backers who have sought for years to see it codified into law.
If Ivey signs it, the bill would more clearly define the term “moral turpitude” as it is used in the state constitution, which stipulates that “no person convicted of a felony of moral turpitude” may vote….
the term would refer to less than 50 specific “felonies that involve moral turpitude which disqualify a person from exercising his or her right to vote,” the legislation states.
By redefining “moral turpitude,” the bill would effectively restore “thousands” of felons’ right to vote.
The governor has indicated she will sign the bill this week.
Open thread
Baud
I don’t get to say this often….
Good on you, Alabama. A step in the right direction.
Corner Stone
They should have called it the Turpitude Recognition and Understanding Management Program.
Roger Moore
There seems to be some genuine movement in a good direction on this kind of thing. Not only have a bunch of ex-cons gotten their voting rights restored, but many states have started to reconsider the “lock ’em up and throw away the key” approach to criminal justice. There’s obviously a long way to go, but there are at least some signs that the pendulum may be swinging back toward rehabilitation over punishment.
JPL
@Corner Stone: Why not just name it in honor of former Governor Bentley.
feebog
As one of my ex bosses used to say, “even baby steps lead you in the right direction.”
Villago Delenda Est
Now if they can just get past those blah people voting…
rikyrah
This is good news
hellslittlestangel
It’s a minor victory. I can’t think of any good reason to deny any felon the right to vote.
Renie
did you see in Iran where election day was a national holiday they had 70% turnout and extended voting by 5 hours. In IRAN. Yet here in the good old USA, we have our own elected reps preventing citizens from voting.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@hellslittlestangel: Me neither. Especially in a nation where 80% of people go to hear sermons about forgiveness on a regular basis. Plus with all the prison/policing/justice problems we have, it’s downright disgraceful that the most important voices in those discussions are silenced politically.
Elizabelle
@Corner Stone: Love it! LOL.
Mnemosyne
Since this is also an open thread, I think I just saw the most Balloon-Juice video ever on Facebook: Man on road trip finds two abandoned puppies in the desert.
If you’re not on Facebook, it looks like it’s currently one of the front page videos on The Dodo.
Calouste
@hellslittlestangel: People convicted of interfering with elections.
hellslittlestangel
@Calouste: I understand the reasoning, but no. Voting should be an absolute right, enshrined in the constitution.
Elizabelle
Well this is kind of interesting; last paragraph of the story:
From Virginia Board of Elections website:
Seems you could absolutely be voting from jail, if you’re not in for a felony.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne: Ooooh. That is so sweet.
Mnemosyne
@hellslittlestangel:
I understand why people who are actually incarcerated are unable to vote — half the point of being incarcerated is that you forfeited some of your rights — but it makes no sense to ban people from voting after they’ve done their time and have had their other rights restored.
Here’s a weird thought: since many of the people who end up in prison are usually only marginally attached to society in the first place, what if we figured out a way to have prison elections? It would almost be like student council at a high school — the prisoner government wouldn’t have much real power, but if done right, it could be a helpful way to teach civic engagement to people who may not be sure how government is supposed to work.
Yeah, I’m sure this idea is going to get picked apart, but I like it.
Redshift
@hellslittlestangel:
There isn’t. Most if not all felony disenfranchisement laws and conditionally provisions were created as part of Jim Crow to prevent black people from voting. If the federal government wouldn’t let you have a poll tax or a literacy test, you could still take away criminals’ right to vote, and it was (and is) easy to make sure a lot more of “those people” are convicted of felonies.
It’s an abomination, and the reason it still exists is that our society brands someone a criminal for life even after they’ve served their time, and the rarely an upside for politicians to be seen favoring “criminals.”
japa21
@Roger Moore: Don’t worry. Sessions is working on reversing that trend.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne: I like the idea.
hellslittlestangel
@Mnemosyne: There is no justification for taking away a prisoner’s right to vote. None. It does nothing to safeguard the republic; it only further ostracizes the prisoner, to no good purpose. Voting should be an inviolable, absolute right.
Mnemosyne
@Iowa Old Lady:
Turns out there’s a pupdate! He and his girlfriend (I assume) are currently taking the dogs on a Pacific Coast roadtrip.
Poco had better watch out — someone is stealing his niche! ??
hellslittlestangel
To go off topic: Has there been any coverage of what exactly The Orange Better One has been up to on his big adventure abroad? The only thing I’ve seen is some pictures in the NYT of him getting handjobs from various Saudi royalty.
Mnemosyne
@hellslittlestangel:
Taking it away permanently? No. But I understand the justification for saying that being convicted of a crime means that you are temporarily prevented from participating in society, and part of the societal participation you’re cut off from is voting.
That’s why I wonder if having elections inside the prison might be helpful in teaching people how to participate in a community so they can learn that lesson and then bring it back home with them once they’re released. The big objection I could see is that it would be infantilizing to decide that grown adults need to learn from scratch how to participate in a democracy like schoolchildren do.
BruceFromOhio
the term would refer to less than 50 specific “felonies that involve moral turpitude which disqualify a person from exercising his or her right to vote,”
I wonder what would happen if
a) US legislature tried to define mt, and better,
b) that definition was then applied to the US legislature, how many rethugs would lose voting rights.
Hmmmm
p.a.
As Fred Clark might say this is an unambiguously good thing. However, since cynicism is the absolute correct default setting to understand the political actions of a certain American party, may I theorize that a demographic study of Alabama moral turpitude felons might indicate a preponderance of caucasians?
germy
Elizabelle
@hellslittlestangel: Slate’s got you covered.
My First Big Boy Trip, by Donald J. Trump
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne: Beautiful pictures and cute doggies.
J R in WV
Moral turpitude!? What a great name for the immoral actions of the few.
Like hiring poor, non-English-speaking immigrants to work for far below minimum wage tearing down an old building full of asbestos building materials, providing only manual tools, like sledge hammers, wrecking bars, no hard hats, no dust masks, etc.
Like Donald Trump, in NYC… just saying. I think he paid a small fine for that.
lgerard
Already “trump associates” are starting to whine about legal bills and diminished job prospects.
I have zero sympathy for these fools. They did not bother to do basic due diligence before associating with a man who has been involved in more then 3,000 lawsuits over the last 30 years.
Everything Hair Hindenburg touches ends up in a maelstrom of lies, threats, broken promises, depositions and lawsuits. Why did they think this would be different?
RSA
@Mnemosyne:
I like the idea, too. Many prison programs, from what I understand, are “opt-in”, which is in the nature of participation in a democracy. The potential downsides I see is that politics can raise passions, something to be careful of in a prison, and the rules would have to be well thought-out to limit influence peddling and corruption–something we don’t seem to have entirely resolved on the outside either. :-)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@lgerard: Here is my advice to trump people worried about investigations and legal expenses.
Mike in NC
Isn’t the Confederate garden gnome who runs DoJ on record for building more private prisons to be filled with misdemeanor drug offenders?
hellslittlestangel
I don’t. By that reasoning, prisoners are unable to repay their debt to society, because they are no longer participants in society.
When exceptions are made regarding human rights, loopholes are created. See also the “except as a punishment for crime” clause of the 13th Amendment — the legalized slavery loophole — which punishes prisoners even more cruelly than depriving prisoners of the right to vote.
Anticipating the question: should prisoners have 2nd Amendment right? No, because no one should have 2nd Amendment rights. The 2nd Amendment is possibly the worst law in our mediocre constitution.
Elizabelle
@J R in WV: Moral turpitude can be a huge issue with immigration issues. I remember a case where some Japanese executive’s wife shoplifted something at Target — theft is moral turpitude. It’s a deportable offense.
What’s a Crime of Moral Turpitude according to US Immigration Law?
Elizabelle
Comment in moderation. Not sure why ….
LurkerNoLonger
@germy: Ohhhhhh, I see. This guy has like a 2 inch dick.
Oatler.
@Mike in NC: “Confederate garden gnome ”
Hey, that was MY nickname for Gohmert!
mai naem mobile
I hope this doesn’t involve a bunch of paperwork and fees for the paperwork for the ex felon to get their voting rights back. I had a clinet who served a couple of years for according to him ‘lightly shoving a cop while he(the guy not the cop) was drunk.’ He was clean after that but he said to get his voting rights back in AZ was a lot of paperwork.
Hal
@Mnemosyne: awww. I can’t believe someone would just dump two puppies on the side of the road. They’re are animal shelters everywhere. Asses. But those pups also ended up with an apparently wonderful owner.
clay
Saw on CNN that the Russian foreign minister is denying that he and Trump spoke about Comey’s firing. Which is odd since a) the reports came from the official transcript and b) the White House didn’t deny it. Which leads to an almost 100% certainty that the story is true.
So why would whassface (not Kislyak, the other guy) deny something so verifyable? Don’t such hollow denials mean he has less credibility for the other things they deny?
Another Scott
Good news. We’ve made some progress over the ages, but not enough.
Colonial Virginia:
We visited Williamsburg a few years ago. The re-enactor told us that having one’s “ears pinned” was a huge deal – to the extent that if someone had an accident that injured one of their ears, they would get an official letter (from the Governor?) saying (roughly) “Joe here is a person of high moral standing, has not been convicted of a crime, and his ear was damaged in an accident.” Because missing a piece of your ear was a sign to everyone that you were (twice) convicted of being a thief.
Denying voting rights is a similar relic, IMO, and needs to go. Congratulations to Alabama for taking a tiny step in the right direction.
Cheers,
Scott.
bl
Hoping to get help from BJ readers.
A lost dog (Walter look alike) wandered into my yard yesterday morning. He is old and doesnt like to walk very far, so I thought it would be easy to find his owner. He has an invisible fence collar but no other collar or tags. He is not microchipped or tattooed.
I took him to the vet today and they agree he is well cared for.
I have put notices out on various lost and found pet social media sites and called 2 local vets. I let the county animal shelter know I have the dog in case someone calls looking for him. I checked the closest neighborhoods for lost pet flyers with no luck (however, neighborhoods in my area lack telephone poles, so not that easy to post flyers).
My problem is I travel for my job every week, and will be leaving Tuesday morning as usual. I need to have him someplace safe by then while we look for his owner(s).
I live in Maryland in the DC suburbs. Any ideas?
Here is a link (I hope since I dont usually link to FB posts) to one of the local sites I left a message on.
Buddy
We are calling him Buddy for now. He is a sweet dog and good with people and other dogs. He is not as good with cats (he is terrorizing my cats, and was overly friendly with all the cats at the vet today).
debbie
@Elizabelle:
That title alone should win an award!
Mnemosyne
@Iowa Old Lady:
@Hal:
The guy makes me laugh because he’s such a typical (almost stereotypical) Southern California dude, a type that tends to extend up through most of Central California as well (one of my younger cousins is one).
They’re very nice guys, but what you see is what you get, for better and worse.
efgoldman
@Roger Moore:
Even though I suspect this is done more for financial than moral reasons (Hell no I won’t pay any more taxes for cops/courts/prisons) the end result is a good one.
john b.
and one of those 50 crimes of moral turpitude:
wouldn’t want those pot dealers voting. No siree.
debit
@bl: Email Anne Laurie and/or Tamara and ask them to front page this. Good luck and thank you for being kind to an old dog.
Citizen Alan
@hellslittlestangel:
“The 2nd Amendment is possibly the worst law in our mediocre constitution.” Untrue. Is nothing wrong with forbidding the federal government from interfering with the right of the various states to regulate their own state militias. It is only the tortured asinine interpretation of the Second Amendment forced upon us all by a 5-4 majority that makes it seem bad.
efgoldman
So, Mensch and Taylor have apparently gone off the deep end. Or maybe they’ve found some primo weed.
I looked for some indications that it’s a parody site; didn’t find any.
Shell
Did Trump bow or curtsey to the Saudi king? Inquiring minds want to…. uh, screw it.
Baud
@efgoldman: That’s nuts. If I followed them, I would stop.
Mnemosyne
@Roger Moore:
To me, having someone end up in the criminal justice system should be an opportunity for us as a society to say, Okay, what went wrong here? Is this someone with an undiagnosed learning disorder or mental illness that could be treated? Were they abused and need therapy? Did they have trouble in school and need academic help?
And then, more broadly, what does that individual need? Anger management classes? Drug rehab? Education? Vocational training? What can be done for them to help prepare them to re-enter society once they’ve served their time, rather than just handing them a bus ticket home after sticking them in a cell for 5 or 10 or 15 years?
This is more on my mind in the past few years because, after 20+ years of being in and out of the revolving door of the prison system, my niece and nephew’s father got finally diagnosed with the severe ADHD and bipolar we had suspected for a while since both of his sons from different mothers were severely ADHD and bipolar. How much different could his life have been if he had been properly diagnosed and treated the first time he was incarcerated rather than the fifth or sixth?
efgoldman
@Baud:
I don’t follow them. Someone posted the link elsewhere and I followed it out of curiosity (I don’t have a cat).
Davebo
Legally Moral Turpitude is a term of art that has almost no real definition.
The question is, will it be signed into law.
Mnemosyne
@bl:
What debit said — see if Anne Laurie or Tamara could do a front-page post. You should be able to email either one of them from the “Contact a Front Pager” link on the front page.
Would you be able to board him at the vet’s or another place while you’re gone? The vet may be willing to do it at a reduced rate since he’s a found dog.
A weird suggestion — how about putting a “Found Dog” sign with his picture on your front lawn before you leave and then again after you get back? I’m picturing something like a political campaign sign, but with the dog’s picture. That way, if the owners are driving around trying to find him, they’ll spot the sign. If you worry about weirdos showing up at your door, stick it in the grass in a nearby park or other public space.
hovercraft
@lgerard:
But according to Maggie Habberman, you should have sympathy for them even if you don’t like them, they could end up bankrupt! I just wished someone on the panel last night had pointed out that the moran they are serving or served is trying to take health care away from millions who themselves may end up bankrupt.
Millard Filmore
@efgoldman: also posted here:
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/05/case-anyone-know-inclined-take-louise-mensch-claude-taylor-seriously
The front pager did not add any commentary, and I have just now opened the comments for it.
Roger Moore
@japa21:
He’s working on it, but most criminal justice happens at the state level, which is where the reform has been happening. And it’s a fairly broad movement; it isn’t just a handful of blue states doing it.
Another Scott
@bl: You’ve done all the right things. I spent a few minutes looking though listings of lost dogs in PG and in MD and very few black labs turned up (e.g. one that was female, one that had a pink color, one that was described as a pit-bull mix).
It could always be the case that the person isn’t on Facebook, isn’t internet savvy, etc.
One final thing you might check is to see if there’s a serial number on the collar. Maybe the owner registered it with the manufacturer/distributor and maybe you could track the owner down that way. Maybe. :-(
Otherwise, I’m not sure what to recommend. The PGSPCA and similar groups say the next best thing to do is to take him to a shelter as that increases the chance of finding the owner. But there is a risk, of course, depending on the shelter policies. :-(
Best of luck! Thanks for working so hard for him.
Cheers,
Scott.
Roger Moore
@hellslittlestangel:
I’m gonna go with the 11th Amendment as the worst.
mai naem mobile
Raw Story is just a total Dolt-o-Rama today. MelaNoma wants Spicey gone. Dolts lower level staff are having to pay $1500/hr lawyers. Sorry ,but I don’t give a shit what Melanoma wants or what they’re paying for their lawyers. I’m figuring Spicey wants out at this point. Melanoma’s a bimbo. Bet she couldn’t tell you any of the people who were Obamas WH spokes people. And besides the problem isn’t Spicey, it’s Dumbo Dolt.
Iowa Old Lady
@mai naem mobile: I know this is wrong of me, but I can’t help liking Spicey a little. It dates from seeing him dressed up as a bunny for the WH Easter Egg roll. Yeah, he serves a terrible master and has sold his soul, but his anxious look makes me sympathetic.
So now I’ll just go and do whatever the electronic equivalent is of washing my mouth out with soap.
Doug R
@hellslittlestangel: I can see someone convicted of voter fraud being kept from voting for a cycle or so, otherwise you’re getting into political prisoner territory.
debit
@Another Scott: My dog Ellie was picked up by a kind person who found her wandering in one of the northern suburbs. She couldn’t keep Ellie, so she took her to a shelter that turned out to be full. So Ellie was transferred to St Paul and wound up in their Animal Control where she was held for (I think) 9 days and then sent to the Humane Society, where I adopted her. I was pretty surprised that an elderly, well mannered, obviously much loved dog hadn’t been claimed, but you never know. Then a few days later, the Humane Society contacted me and said the owner had just seen her posting and wanted to claim her. Turns out she’d been haunting the northern shelters and only by chance saw Ellie’s listing.
So while a shelter might be the ultimate solution, the dog might not wind up anywhere near where the owner expects to find it.
And since I obviously still have Ellie, here’s how it went down: I contacted the owner and offered to bring Ellie back to the shelter and surrender her, whereupon the owner would immediately adopt her. However, I had at that point spent several hundred dollars on vet bills (kennel cough that had turned into pneumonia, multiple visits, meds, etc) and would have waived her adoption fee, but wanted my medical bills reimbursed. Owner said she’d call me, then never did and never responded to my follow up calls and texts. I sent her one final message to let her know that Ellie was on the mend, and then removed her from my contacts. Like I said, you never know what’s going on with someone.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Iowa Old Lady: Back in the Bush days, I almost felt a little sorry for (I think I have this name right) Scott McClellan, who took over for Ari Fleischer, because SMac always seemed a little perplexed by what he was saying, as if it didn’t make sense to him and he wasn’t quite sure if he was lying but he knew his job depended on lying, whereas Fleischer knew he was lying and he was going to get away with it and he loved it. Spicier strikes me as an angry version of McClellan, almost sure he’s making a fool out of himself, but not quite sure why. Conway will/would be trump’s Fleischer, a spitefully happy, soulless liar.
Roger Moore
@Iowa Old Lady:
I don’t think it makes you a bad person to feel sympathy for someone in a bad position, even if they largely got themselves into that situation. That sympathy for others is a sign that you’re fundamentally a good person. It’s the people who can shut off sympathy on command who are bad people.
Iowa Old Lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Roger Moore: I feel no sympathy for Kellyanne, so maybe that redeems me. Or shows my limits, I suppose.
Another Scott
@debit: Yeah, one never knows.
J was out on a walk with our Sophie a few years ago when a young golden puppy ran up to them and wanted to play. Collar but no tags. J tried to shoo her off in the hope that she’d go home, but she just followed them home.
We didn’t recognize her, but figured she had to be from somewhere nearby. I went out with her on a walk, hoping that she would lead me to her home. We wandered around several streets and even went up to a door that she wanted to visit, but the people inside didn’t recognize her (the little kids wanted to keep her though!).
I thought it made sense to hold on to her for a few days, in case we saw signs, a note showed up on the community web site, we would have time to put up signs, have time to walk more streets, etc., but J didn’t like the idea and thought it made more sense to take her to the 24-hour animal hospital in case the owner called there.
So, that’s what we did.
The owner called there that same evening and they were reunited. Turns out they live a few blocks away from where we had so-far been walking.
As you say, one never knows.
Good luck to Buddy and bl!
Cheers,
Scott.
debit
@Another Scott: I’m so glad it worked out. Hopefully they got the puppy microchipped. Dogs might lose their collar and/or tags, but a chip is forever.
Thoughtful David
Unless it’s given as an explicit part of a convict’s sentence, no one should ever lose voting rights, and especially not forever or until you apply to get them restored. Once your sentence is completed, that’s it–punishment is over. Loss of your right to vote is punishment, so unless the sentence specifically includes that punishment, it shouldn’t happen. Due process should be required.
Roger Moore
@Iowa Old Lady:
I don’t think lack of sympathy is a sign of redemption. I’m far more worried about people who can’t muster sympathy for those who deserve it (the pathological form of conservatism) than people who feel sympathy for those who don’t deserve it (the pathological form of liberalism).
rikyrah
@lgerard:
48.
They should remember that 48 people went to jail for Watergate.
Richard Nixon was NOT one of them.
The first one gets immunity.
The rest get orange jumpsuits.?
opiejeanne
@Iowa Old Lady: We’ve been binge-watching Father Brown on Netflix and one episode had a guy who looked so much like Spicer (as well as Melissa McCarthy) that it was distracting.
Iowa Old Lady
@opiejeanne: Maybe Spicey has a second job.
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: McClellan seems like a decent guy, especially because he later wrote a scathing book denouncing a lot of what had gone on within the administration. I doubt many people actually directly read it, but I’ve always considered it a key turning point in the popular shift in opinion away from the administration (Woodward’s 2006 book was likely another key factor, as was Katrina, obviously). The public may not have read it, but it probably influenced journalists whom they did read or see on TV.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’ll be damned. I have no recollection of that, me a political junkie and all
mai naem mobile
@Iowa Old Lady: I kind of feel like you about Spicer.I feel like he’s on a fast runaway train and doesn’t know what to do. Jump off and get severely injured or hope that things work out when the train stops. At the same time, early on when he became spokesperson there was some reporter who said Spicer was just really bad at his job in the sense that he lied outrageously and continued to lie when he was the RNC spokesperson. So this current job may be his karma.
efgoldman
@Iowa Old Lady:
I don’t feel sympathy for any of them. They’re all adults with free will, who chose to attach themselves to a Tangerine Temper Tantrum Toddler and his political party that wants to immisserate tens of millions of people.
You know where this is going. Yup.
Fuckem
Che-toes
@Renie: Iran offers a choice of better candidates than the US.