Do any of you have any experience with CUPS? My friend’s dog is in really bad shape and they are at their wits end.
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by John Cole| 36 Comments
This post is in: Dog Blogging
Do any of you have any experience with CUPS? My friend’s dog is in really bad shape and they are at their wits end.
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SiubhanDuinne
Never heard of it until now, but just looked it up and it sounds awful and painful. I hope your friend can get good veterinary dental care for her dog pronto.
SWMBO
The article I read said it seems to be an allergy to the bacteria in the mouth. Have they tried Benadryl? And a low allergy diet?
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I can’t find out what this is. What is it? The only CUPS I could find is some kind of computer thing.
John S Roszel
Go here for access to a very knowledgeable veterinary source:
John S Roszel
Here’s the link, in case it doesn’t show up in previous post http://bit.ly/2qMp8xn
RoonieRoo
I have zero experience with CUPS so i have nothing to offer. It looks like a pretty awful disease. I am so sorry they are going through this.
Steeplejack
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Let me Google that for you.
debit
Sounds a lot like stomatitus in cats. Our cat Max was diagnosed with that and had all his teeth removed and did very well for another 8 years. I would advise going to the vet clinic at your local vet university, if they have one, and if their local vet doesn’t know what to do (pull all the teeth).
ETA: I just want to add that Max did great with no teeth, even ate dry food with no issues once his gums healed.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
VA tech or Ohio State vet schools would be the best bet. It’s what I’d do for a dog w/ a pretty unusual disease.
MomSense
I’m afraid to google this. Hope the poor doggy gets better.@debit:
Hi you!
debit
@debit: The problem, of course, is that it’s horrifically expensive. Max’s treatment was at least $2500. I took Chloe to the U of M for multiple tooth extractions and it was a cool $2300 for 8 teeth. But like I said, it bought Max another 8 years and Chloe another 3.
ETA: @MomSense: Hey yourself!
Steeplejack
@debit:
This is good to hear. The housecat is looking at some potentially serious dental work, and I have to admit I have been procrastinating on it.
liberal
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
LOL. No love for the Common UNIX Printing System?
Adam L Silverman
http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/dental-corner-diagnosing-and-treating-chronic-ulcerative-paradental-stomatitis?id=&sk=&date=&%09%09%09&pageID=2
debit
@Steeplejack: Obviously they need pain meds after surgery, but then they do great. I felt like shit when Max was diagnosed; he was a terrible garbage can diver and I resented him for it until I realized he was just looking for food that wouldn’t hurt him to eat. Poor kitty.
Like I said, they do great on dry food, but wet food mixed with some warm water is really the best. Keeps ’em full and hydrated.
debit
Okay, one last PSA before I go to bed: if your pet’s breath stinks, I mean really stinks, it’s a sign they need to be seen by a vet ASAP. It’s not normal and it’s usually a sign of either gum or tooth disease. and needs to be addressed. We thought it was cute that Oliver had a fang that was always visible when his mouth was closed. Turns out it was an abscess in his canine that probably hurt like fuck until it was pulled. We should have been clued in when his breath turned rancid.
J R in WV
Well, gross. But thanks for the education. None of our critters have even had dental problems, and we were complimented for their good oral health. But we weren’t doing anything other than snacks alleged to help oral health. Guess it worked. And Milk bonez for the dogs.
Lucky, I guess.
Belafon
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): I saw this, http://www.ahna.net/blog/cups-bella-saved-life-intense-oral-pain. In some cases, according to the article, the only real cure is removing the teeth.
StringOnAStick
Basically this sounds like periodontal disease with a heightened systemic inflammatory component/response. Periodontal disease in any mammal, humans included, goes away once the environment required by the anaerobic bacteria that cause it is gone. You can get rid of the anaerobic “pocket” around the tooth by pulling the tooth; no anaerobic environment = no periodontal disease.
Dogs can’t floss, but you can. If you want to avoid periodontal disease and the increased risk of stroke and heart attack (among other medical problems) that comes with it, floss, use a Waterpik, or have all your teeth pulled; your choice (can you tell I’m a dental hygienist yet?). Some people have a genetic variant that means their risk is higher and start showing symptoms very young, but that isn’t common. Being lazy about flossing is much, much more common. That AP story last year about no long term proof of flossing helping avoid periodontal disease was the worst kind of crap click bait, and utter bullshit. Don’t fall for it!
Omnes Omnibus
This might be the least entertaining late night thread ever on this blog.
Zippity
@debit: My 11 year old cat was diagnosed with Stomatitus in Feb. His breath wasn’t bad, but he wasn’t eating. Did a dental, and extracted a bunch of teeth. He kept losing weight. Tried laser treatments for several weeks. Gained a little, but hit a plateau and started losing again. Just tried a long acting steroid shot, and he gained more than a pound in 3 weeks. Hopefully, it gives him relief for a while.
Yarrow
.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yarrow: Seems inappropriate here.
ETA: Okay fine.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yarrow: Don’t leave me holding the bag again please. Not cool.
RealityBites
Have known several cats and one dog with this condition. All of them had bad cases that did not respond to antibiotics. They had ALL of their teeth removed, (I think a couple needed two or more surgeries to do this) They had antibiotics and painkillers while healing. Both cats and dogs can eat small kibble and some wet food without teeth. I have also heard of using steroids, cyclosporine, and laser treatment. I also knew someone who discussed antiviral medications (acyclovir) because one theory is that herpes and other viruses are involved. I do not remember if the antivirals were tried. But all the critters with the teeth removal have done well without additional treatment. There are a couple of moderate priced vets in my area who do very good dental work. We also have the Virginia Tech vet school nearby for consultation.
Hope this helps. Please remember I am speaking from limited experience and I am not a vet.
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Omnes Omnibus: And that’s actually quite a high bar.
Hi to debit and MomSense.
Mnemosyne
@debit:
We know that Keaton needs the full cleaning under anesthesia, but he has had a bad reaction to general anesthesia in the past and almost didn’t make it. Ugh.
MomSense
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
Hey there. We are having a low energy night.
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus: Ok, my entertainment: I had to drive the rescue boat to actually conduct a rescue today. Had a guy who needed his 15kt sailing checkoff, but it was only blowing 12. Ok, he’s going to go out and practice, and if it comes up, we’ll do his check. Wind never came up, but his boat went over. I was on the dock, hopped in the rescue boat I had been using 10 minutes earlier, and pulled the starter. Nothing. Again. Nothing, Squeeze the ball, pull the choke, pull it. Nothing. Seemed like ten minutes went by, just pulling the starter over and over, but it was actually about one. Eventually Poseidon smiles on me and it starts.
I motor out, and of course he’s fine. He’s got a PFD on, so he’s not in serious danger of drowning. The boat, however, is pointed downwind while on its side. He’s hanging on to the transom and just sort of moving down the lake, I grabbed the bow, spun it and stabilized, he grabbed the centerboard and it came right up.
He would have eventually gotten it fixed and back up, but he was kind of happy I was there to help. Today was the second or third 70° day we’ve had this year, and the lake was 49°. I was in the water just last month for my instructor training and it is no fun when it’s that cold.
CaseyL
Poor doggie! Pulling all the teeth sounds pretty traumatic all by itself, but if he’s in that much pain… best of luck with him!
@Mike J: Good on ya – and good thing you were there. Was he wearing a drysuit along with the waterwings? If not, he could’ve gone hypothermic.
Aleta
@Mike J: Why did it go over?
Anne Laurie
First I’d heard of this, too. However, I can attest that small dogs in general tend to have ‘problem’ teeth — that’s why there are so many ‘adorable’ pics of chihuahuas/pugs/maltese with their tongues hanging out the side of their mouths.
I’ve known a great many dogs of all sizes who’ve lost all or most of their teeth as they aged. Usually they recover very quickly, and have no trouble whatever eating kibble, much less soft food. So it won’t be cheap for your friend, but (barring other health issues) it *should* be resolvable!
Also, here’s my every-so-often PSA for doggie dental cleanings, especially for older dogs. I know it’s terrifying to contemplate putting a beloved companion with geriatric issues under general anesthesia, but I’ve also known many many dogs who gained extra years of pain-free life afterwards. Watching a gimpy, cranky old dog suddenly revert to dancing around the yard and gulping their dinner rather than picking at it is magical. It even convinced me to start getting my teeth professionally cleaned more often, and I’m severely dental-phobic!
Dr. Ronnie James, D.O.
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: If you’re in the NE, I can’t recommend UPenn’s vet school in Philly enough. They have done an amazing job with our dog’s Cushing’s Disease (missed by a half-dozen vets over 10 years of symptoms), and my in-laws’ cat’s cancer a few years ago.
One caveat: it probably goes without saying, what with it being an Ivy League school and all, but the bills can be somewhat staggering (though not for routine measures).
Nan
The important thing about removing a dog or cat’s teeth is that it is not simple. Pre-anesthesia work-up, general anesthesia, availability of dental radiology (in case of broken-off root tips), serious dental expertise – all essential, and costly. That said, I agree that these animals are much happier after partial or full dental extraction. They don’t care that they have no teeth, just that they don’t hurt. Personally, I do not have the patience for daily work on the mouth of a cat or dog – particularly as they can become “bitey” after a bit. And I am a veterinarian, so there.
InternetDragons
John – Just sharing a little info based on having been raised in a family of veterinarians and working through undergrad and grad school as a vet tech.
CUPS is a miserable condition (obviously) with a guarded prognosis and limited chance of cure. Any dog can get it (cats too), though it is more prevalent in certain breeds – I want to say German Shepherds, Greyhounds, and Dachshunds, but my memory on that detail may be shaky.
There’s been other good advice in the thread, so I won’t repeat that. Just a couple of other points that may or may not be useful:
For any chance of success, the care given at home has to be absolutely meticulous. The home care necessary for CUPS is, frankly, an absolute pain in the ass for both the owner and the pet, and over time (as pointed out above) the pet may get increasingly stressed by it and get nippy/generally unhappy.
In addition to the ongoing home care, some dogs see improvements with the use of wax barrier sealants on the remaining teeth. Check with your vet about that possibility.
The “dental diet” foods by Hills, Purina, or Royal Canin can help a bit, but less so in advanced cases.
I’ll be honest here – I’ve seen the best results come from full or nearly full dental extraction. While doing this is a major surgical procedure – not risk-free, and not cheap – the pets always seem so much happier and more comfortable afterwards, and do just fine on a soft diet.
I hope this helps a bit. The news about CUPS usually doesn’t provide much cause for optimism if a family is hoping that the initial veterinary intervention plus home care will result in a cure.
Eadgyth
It might well be too late, but a full meat diet generally helps dogs reduce inflammation and oral problems.