As predicted yesterday, Hillary Clinton’s Wellesley commencement speech riled up the usual suspects because Hillary Clinton. But I found the reaction from unpaid New Republic intern (I hope) Graham Vyse particularly irritating.
Not because it was worse than the drivel poured forth at Fox News, etc., but because it exemplifies a particular strain of post-election posturing about Clinton that makes me want to gather the sisterhood and embark on a cross-country nut-punching spree. The first fucking line is infuriating:
Hillary Clinton is auditioning for a role in the Trump resistance.
Motherfucker, do you even know WHY there is a Trump resistance? Do you understand how it launched? It’s because on November 8, 2016, the retrograde racist, sexist, xenophobic, authoritarian element that has sandbagged this country from its founding banded together with Eurotrash white nationalists to push a highly qualified woman aside and deliver the presidency to an ambulatory genital wart.
This outrage was unprecedented in its scale. But it reflected literally hundreds of millions of incidents every competent woman in this country has experienced at multiple points in her life. It was the ultimate confirmation of what women have felt in their bones from toddlerhood: We’ll never be good enough. We are second-class citizens.
Vyse goes on, citing as evidence of Clinton’s overweening ambition tweets from fellow dudes:
Clinton is adopting the language of the Trump resistance, and indeed there are indications that she wants to be a key figure in that movement.
Motherfucker, Clinton IS a “key figure in that movement,” whether she wants to be or not. Trump’s elevation to the presidency was and is a tragedy for the entire planet. Everyone who comprehends that fact has a role to play in mitigating the damage, pointing out the corruption and attempting to roll back this grave injustice.
But you can’t erase the most high profile victim of this crime and delegate Michael Moore or Bernie Sanders to lead the movement that sprang up in response to that outrage. We won’t let you.
And by “we,” I mean the millions of women who knitted caps until there was no more pink yarn. The women who drove all night to descend on Washington DC on January 21 and dwarf Trump’s inaugural crowd. Those who turned up to march in cities all around the world to form the largest single-day protest in the history of the planet. And the millions of women who are still calling, faxing and emailing their elected representatives to this day.
No, it wasn’t all about Hillary Clinton. It never was! But when you try to sideline her, many of us perceive that as a dismissal akin to the one we heard loud and clear on November 8. That pisses us off. And you wouldn’t like us when we’re pissed off.
Vyse concludes:
Clinton shouldn’t be a central resistance figure. What losing presidential candidate, after all, has ever returned to lead the opposition? Not John Kerry, not Al Gore, not Michael Dukakis. The Democratic Party is right to be elevating its younger rising stars. But clearly she still feels the pull of politics, and who’s going to stop her from giving speeches and interviews whenever she pleases? The Bernie Sanders wing of the party might want to wish her away, but only she has the power to decide that.
Kerry, Gore and Dukakis? Just shut the fuck up right there, Mr. Vyse. Kerry, Gore and Dukakis weren’t trying to become the first woman to ascend to the presidency in the 241-year history of our republic. They didn’t win more popular votes than anyone besides Barack Obama only to be robbed by corrupt traitors colluding with a hostile foreign power to install an embarrassing and incompetent demagogue.
And in case you didn’t notice while cherry-picking Clinton’s speech to find triggering evidence of female ambition, the central theme of it was to motivate the enthusiastic young women graduating that day to take leadership and create change. Hell, she even said “run for office.” It’s right there in her speech. We heard her. Did you?
As for the “Bernie Sanders wing of the party,” I can only speak for myself when I say I stand with all Democrats who are united in resisting Trump and the Republicans’ disastrous agenda. I’m glad Clinton called it what it is — a con. I’m glad a $15 minimum wage is now official Democratic Party policy. But no faction within our party gets to tell the other to sit down and shut up. Not now. Not ever.
That said, I would like to offer a piping hot mug of shut the fuck up to Mr. Vyse and the countless other young white fellas in prominent perches throughout our liberal media. But after that, the fucking kitchen is closed. Make your own goddamned sammitch.
John Cole
Seconded.
Gin & Tonic
Righteous!
Virginia
I love you Betty. Really, really love you.
Starfish
Can we have some Balloon Juice dinner meet ups when this happens?
Nelle
Whadda ya mean, the Bernie Sanders wing of the party? He doesn’t even belong to the party. How can he have a wing of what he isn’t a part of???
Villago Delenda Est
YES.
Betty, I’ll hold this asshole for you while you punch him in the nuts. With great pleasure.
This guy is obviously auditioning for a spot in the Village. No quarter for such vermin.
japa21
I really wish you wouldn’t restrain yourself so much. Just tell us how you really feel.
Bobby Thomson
Actually, that little snot nosed prick needs to make you a god damn sandwich.
BBA
Sanders supporters are useful idiots for Trump. And I’m not too sure about the useful part.
ByRookorbyCrook
@Nelle: It is a cabana outside the tent. It is made of glass and has piles and piles of stones to throw.
debbie
There is no auditioning for the Resistance. That’s the whole point of American freedom and it is why the GOP will never be the party of true Americans.
MomSense
Yes!! Also too never piss off the knitters. We literally play with dangerously sharp sticks every day.
Steeplejack
Righteous rant, Betty!
Quibble: “to lead the movement that
sprungsprang up in response to that outrage.”Emma
Countersigned. Dittoed. Converted into my own personal manifesto.
geg6
TELL IT, BETTY! TELL IT!
Johnnybuck
Seriously, fuck that guy.
Starfish
@BBA: I was following some of these people that I consider the leftiest, and I had to drop them because when they double down on attacking Clinton on the days when some big news story has dropped about Trump, I know that they are not my team.
Barbara
So Baby Pundit thinks it is the prerogative of any man, however young and inexperienced, to tell any woman, of whatever age and experience what she is really thinking and whether she deserves her status. Plus, you know, Bernie Sanders also lost so I am at a loss to understand why her loss counts more than his in the scheme of things.
burnspbesq
Sadly, TNR has become a waste of time.
Margaret Flood Nolan
A student in Graduate school mansplains Hillary. How original. Read her books. Study her history of service to the nation. Try to meet her, or at least listen to her without the filter of the self-styled pundits. Then explain to the New Republic and the world why her defeat has not resulted in a Constitutional crisis for us all.
BruceFromOhio
This x 16 jillion! Preach it!
Corner Stone
I loved HRC’s commencement speech this week. Funny, fiery, on point. Talked about service, working for change, getting involved, helping one another do better and be better. It was great.
And anyone who moans about “why didn’t we see more of this Hillary during the campaign???” needs to take a good long look in the mirror. And realize they swallowed a good portion of the anti-HRC bias the media has been pushing down our throats for 30 years.
Betty Cracker
@Steeplejack: Fixed — thank you. Sometimes fury degrades my ability to properly conjugate verbs. :)
Chyron HR
I’m pretty sure Al Gore remained active in politics after 2000 (hence “global warming is a lie because Al Gore is fat and rides in a plane”) and John Kerry continued to serve in the Senate until 2012. Neither of them was expected to shrivel up and die like the Wicked Witch of the West.
JJ
Whoa… catching my breath. That felt so fucking good to read. Thank you.
Baud
No love for the Baud! wing of the party?
Cheryl from Maryland
Thank you, Betty!
wvng
Miss Betty, I think you have exceeded the Blog Father’s exceedingly high standard for the righteous rant. This is a thing of beauty.
Oatler.
Unpaid intern is eager to show his eager brutality to please potential masters.
mai naem mobile
Okay so lets have it clear here, you want to Vise the Vyse?
Big Ole Hound
IMO the Dems are becoming the women’s party. They cannot win any election with gals alone and many men are becoming bystanders who will not vote for the candidates or causes. A candidate and issues must emerge that is appealing to both sexes on a national level. It may be of either sex but the following must include both sexes. Women alone will never win on any level, city, state or national.
tobie
Such self-righteous indignation on a sultry Saturday morning is a thing of beauty. Keep on hollering, sister(s)!
One day, I suspect, we’ll find out about Sanders’ and Devine’s friendliness with Vlad. The hatred Bernie inspired for Hillary Clinton in particular and the Democratic Party in general is staggering. They’re still trying to destroy the Democratic Party. Witness the debacle in the vote for the leadership of the CA Democratic Party. These people are Stalinists.
FlipYrWhig
TESTIFY, Betty!
WereBear
@Starfish: And… we’ll need training.
Think globally, act locally :)
JGabriel
Graham Vyse (via Betty Cracker @ Top):
Well, there was that moronic racist wingnut jackass who came in second in the 1976 Greedy Oligarch Party’s presidential primary, i.e., Reagan. And then there’s the crooked racist wingnut jackass who lost the 1960 presidential election, i.e. Nixon.
Guy needs to learn a little more history.
Roger Moore
@Nelle:
That’s his wing of the party in a nutshell: outsiders who think the party is ripe for a takeover the same way the Republican party has been taken over. And they’re pissed that a bunch of women and minorities are resisting their dudebro right to be in charge.
OzarkHillbilly
I should like to point out that Bernie Sanders is also a losing candidate for President. Jus’ sayin’.
FlipYrWhig
@Big Ole Hound: Aw, keep your chin up, sport: one day men will be an important part of American politics!
hovercraft
I know I’m a grown woman, but will you adopt me please?
I love you, thanks for this ; )
WereBear
Which is what cursing is made for; somehow, it has very resilient fluency :)
Mike J
Sadly, it’s not just the right that needs to hear this. We have our own dudebros that could stand some nut punching.
Roger Moore
@Barbara:
Bernie lost to a girl, so it doesn’t count.
BBA
@Big Ole Hound: alternatively, we can take the vote away from men. Seems only fair.
japa21
@Big Ole Hound: You forgot to add the H in IMO. You also forgot to be a rational, observant human being.
ETA: In this case the H stands for Horseshit, not Humble.
Starfish
@Big Ole Hound: The activists so far are predominantly women because women see the current state of things as a bigger threat than men do, but the candidates that we are given are still predominantly men.
Immanentize
I am with YOU, Betty.
By the way, why do they always forget the black folks, like Jessie Jackson, who was a failed Presidential Candidate? And Gore never did anything for the environment, right?
OzarkHillbilly
@Big Ole Hound: I’m a woman? (looks in mirror) Who’da thunk it?
japa21
@OzarkHillbilly: Its the inner you, just like the inner me.
Spanky
My one tiny quibble:
Thinking it’s inevitable,yes?
Villago Delenda Est
@JGabriel: Also needs to have his nuts punched. It’s not like he’s going to need them.
hovercraft
@Barbara:
Well there is your mistake, BS did not “lose”, the race was stolen from him. DWS and the DNC and Obama, and Donna Brazille, and the “establishment all conspired to make sure that the Hitlery “won” the primary. If all those forces had not “stolen” the nomination from BS, he would have won, and then he would have beaten Twitler! Everyone knows this, wake up sheeple!
Chet Murthy
@Big Ole Hound:
Wow, that’s really insightful. The way I heard tell, there were a ton of men at the Women’s March, and other marches. And those men found no problem with following. It’s almost like, they’ve understood that the gender of the leadership, isn’t something to be taken as a sign of anything — they actually process the -content- of the positions and policies, without thinking of -who- utters them.
But maybe you mean that there are enough knuckle-draggers and testosterone-poisoning victims, that the reality-based cannot win elections. That might be true. Then again, Hillary did win the popular vote. And in the face of voter suppression and Vladi’s minions. And Comey’s incompetence-masquerading-as-incorruptibility.
Corner Stone
“But I don’t *wanna* have my nuts punched!”
Villago Delenda Est
@hovercraft: Those damn blah people stole it from him on Super Tuesday, like they were jacking a BMW in the ‘hood.
Immanentize
@Big Ole Hound:
Nuff said.
Big Ole Hound
@japa21: Hey kid, you have a big problem. I live in a very blue state and am reporting what is happening as an observer. Your trash talk is totally out of line as I never am “humble” and my 7 plus decades has earned me the right to report what I see.
hovercraft
@Chyron HR:
They have something that she doesn’t, duh!
Villago Delenda Est
@Chet Murthy: THIS THIS THIS.
Hillary, despite her scary hoo-hah, is the best qualified person to run for the Presidency in my lifetime. Just as the blah guy was the more qualified in 2008 and 2012.
None of this fucking identity shit has anything to do this, unless you identify as competent, rational, reality-based, and patriotic.
Roger Moore
@Big Ole Hound:
Your concern is duly noted.
OzarkHillbilly
@japa21: Ah, thanx. I would have thought my inner woman would be a little more introspective though.
Baud
@Chyron HR: John McCain is still in our lives and on our TV.
japa21
@Big Ole Hound: “Kid”? I’ll match your 7 plus decades with my seven plus decades. And if that is what you see, you need your eyes examined.
Immanentize
@Corner Stone: I’m sorry but it cannot be avoided….
the Conster, la Citoyenne
I AM HERE FOR THIS
Baud
Darth Bro: Your powers are weak, old woman.
Hillary: You can’t win, Darth. If you strike me down I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
Jerry
Oh, surely, this article can’t be that bad.
…reads the actual article…
Jesus, what a hot mess.
Hillary took the popular vote by about 3 million, so I’m not sure of his point here. Besides, citing the Daily Caller as an example of running anti-Hillary articles is just being lazy.
Big Ole Hound
@Chet Murthy: Nope. Don’t understand why you guys are all so upset for me repeating what I see and hear in everyday life in a city that voted blue. Women are voting Dem and men are voting GOP unless they are actually aware of the consequences like myself. Geeesh.
Chyron HR
@Big Ole Hound:
BREAKING: 75-year-old man wants women to shut up and know their place!
japa21
@Baud: Like that, I do.
hovercraft
@Big Ole Hound:
You are so right!!!
That’s why no men voted for us, that’s why the majority of our elected officials are women. That’s why there are so few men are willing to voice their opinions on TV or in print, I mean just imagine if men were allowed an equal voice in the democratic party, or in forums like this. Can you imagine being able to come to Balloon Juice and hear the voices of men, to have them free to express their opinions without being shouted down by all the shrill harpies who try to silence all men? Just imagine.
Manyakitty
@MomSense: Goddamned right!!!!
japa21
@Big Ole Hound: So what you are actually saying is that smart men who actually pay attention are voting Dem. Okay, I can agree with that. That hardly makes the Dems a women’s party. It makes a lot of men idiots. Big difference.
ETA: IIRC, Trump won white women.
Big Ole Hound
@Chyron HR: Ya got it all wrong, I was just reporting what I see around me not how I voted or think, c’mon it was an observation.
Villago Delenda Est
@japa21: Ayup. Fuck the morans “rolling coal”. They are prime examples of nuts that need to be punched, in the hopes that their DNA is lost forever.
Roger Moore
@hovercraft:
And nothing at all like that happened to Hillary.
WereBear
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Can’t wait for what the knitters come up with for this mission!
jeffreyw
Yes Ma’am! How high do I pile the condiments?
Manyakitty
Betty brings the FIRE. Rage on, sister, and add my voice to yours!
Juice Box
@JGabriel: The first person to lose the presidential election and the then run and win was a tall redhead named “Thomas
Jefferson”. Mr Vyse may not have heard of him since Mr. J is over 30.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
There is no winning scenario for Hillary in dudebro world, and these are the people we’re supposed to not just make nice with and room for, but step aside for so they can turn the Dem party into another white male club, no girls allowed unless they stay quietly following behind. HARD PASS.
Msilaneous
@Baud: Still got my Baud! bumper sticker.
Chet Murthy
@Big Ole Hound:
*Some* men are voting GOP. I also happen to live in a blue city. A deep, deep blue city. And around here, when there’s a march, a ton of men turn out, and they’re not votin’ GOP. But the nub of your argument can be restated thus:
Wow, somebody up-thread suggested we take away the franchise from men. As a man, I can wholly support that.
brendancalling
Fuck this Vyse guy. Fuck him right in the dick with a pickle fork.
Gin & Tonic
@jeffreyw: Do you deliver?
OzarkHillbilly
@Big Ole Hound: Your powers of observation seem to be lacking.
Donna K
Preach, sister!
Big Ole Hound
@OzarkHillbilly: Not in my town. The Dem eked out a victory in Nov although the state was very blue.
brendancalling
@japa21: please don’t feed the very obvious concern troll.
Spinoza is my Co-pilot
Older (ok, old) white guy here. With you 100%, Betty. Fuck all motherfuckers like this. They’re not just clueless and unhelpful, they’re as bad in their own way as the fascists themselves, much like the Berner dead-enders who booed Hillary at the convention (as well as all such like-minded “leftier-than-thou” assholes around the country who were as instrumental to throwing the election to Trump as any other cause, whether the dipshits recognize it or not).
I will fucking hate Wilmer to the end of my days for that, as I do Nader for kneecapping Al Gore. Arguments letting either of them off the hook are bullshit, as anyone with 2 brain cells and/or not self-deluded knows.
Loved Hillary’s Wellesley speech.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@WereBear:
LOL. Since the author’s name is Vyse, something involving nuts.
japa21
@brendancalling: Something I generally do not do, unless the comment is so overboard as the original comment was.
schrodingers_cat
Its not WWC that is the natural T constituency but the Pundit Class of the media because they like T have ascended to their position by the virtue of who they are not what they know. How many legacy Punditubbies do we see? I will start off with Halperin and Cokie, you can add to the list.
Noncarborundum
@Big Ole Hound: So isn’t the solution to make more men aware of the consequences?
amk
@Big Ole Hound: Bitter old white dudes are trumpanzees. I get it.
MomSense
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
I prefer nut kicking so I don’t have to put down my knitting.
OzarkHillbilly
@jeffreyw: If you put a single condiment** on that perfect work of art I will rip your head off and shit down the hole.
** really, mustard on that is like subway graffiti on the Mona Lisa.
Aurona
That was a thing of beauty. I read his story last night and checked out young, pudgy, white Graham Vyse, an obvious Berniecrat. Why does New Republic think that’s going to get them more women readers? It’s not working but what you said was gold. Thank you.
Suzanne
Oh my God. Just FUUUUUUUUUHHHHHCK this shit. I am just so tired of straight white dudes behaving as if their limited, shitty opinions are so fucking important and obvious and untouchable. She’s not running for anything ever again. There there, show me on the doll where the scary ambitious lady touched you.
Steeplejack
@JGabriel:
More recently, John McCain went back to the Senate after getting his ass kicked in 2008 and continued to be an obnoxious, carping critic of all things Obama right up to the present day.
Or did Vyse mean that only Democratic losers should retire and never be seen or heard again?
patroclus
Thomas Jefferson lost in 1796 and came back to win in 1800. Andrew Jackson lost in 1824 and came back to win in 1828. Grover Cleveland lost in 1888 and came back to win in 1892. William Jennings Bryan lost in 1896 and came back to run two more times as nominee. Teddy Roosevelt lost in 1912 and tried to come back. Thomas Dewey lost in 1944 and came back as the nominee again in 1948. Nixon lost in 1960 and came back and won in 1968. Hubert Humphrey lost in 1968 and certainly tried to regain the nomination in 1972. It’s actually fairly common in U.S. history and is certainly common throughout the world. Not that I’m necessarily likely to support Hillary again, but it’s not like I’m just ruling her out. It seems like this TNR writer should become acquainted with some history prior to Michael Dukakis.
chopper
@Big Ole Hound:
you’re just adorable.
WereBear
Solid.
Waspuppet
If Hillary Clinton had won the electoral vote along with the popular vote, Trump would’ve been back on Twitter within 48 hours and phoning in to Fox and Friends within a week. And no one, least of all Graham Vyse, would’ve thought there was anything wrong with that.
Jeez, I’m a white guy and this shit makes me wanna burn stuff. I can’t imagine how everyone else puts up with this.
OzarkHillbilly
@Big Ole Hound: So you observe your locality and from that very limited data base you extrapolate to the rest of the country? My apologies, it’s not your powers of observation that are lacking.
Marcopolo
@patroclus: You left out my, fave Adlai Stevenson, who had the misfortune of running twice against Ike.
mdblanche
Doesn’t Hillary know True Progressive Champions should be too busy with book tours to give commencement speeches?
Barbara
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: They want her to step up so they can punch her down. Same as it ever was. Some portion of them are just lost without her.
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire
@Big Ole Hound: Fuck right off, assmunch.
Pissed off Betty is the best Betty.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@burnspbesq: Ironically, in the opposite direction from its Peretz-era incarnation.
The TNR is still generally good now, though Vyse isn’t usually this weak. I personally find Jones, Chang & Shephard more consistently irksome (specifically, Jones as the “zealous convert” and Shephard’s Clinton Derangement Syndrome).
Timothy OConnor
Uh, hello! Paging Howard Dean!
Dean lost and successfully led the DNC to significant victories and he doesn’t have the power and following that Hillary does.
schrodingers_cat
@mdblanche: Is he going to Russia too? To get further instructions on how to sabotage the Democratic party from within.
Marcopolo
Just noted this in the new AHCA thread but major props to AM Joy and MSNBC for not cutting away to Trump speaking to troops in Italy.
Aleta
Oh the horror of her “giving speeches and interviews whenever she pleases.” “Who’s going to stop her?” Rise up and make your career move by shoving her supporters aside !
schrodingers_cat
If Obama were to give a Berlin style speech in the United States I am sure we would have a repeat of media concern trolls from the so called liberal media, telling us how he is doing it wrong.
jeffreyw
@Gin & Tonic: Do I ever!
Suzanne
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): My boss, who is a good boss despite being politically wrong about everything, noted that someone in our office had “TDS”, or “Trump Derangement Syndrome”. I was like, “Get used to it, and you’re now partially morally responsible for whatever happens.”
jeffreyw
@OzarkHillbilly:
You are dead to me.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Roger Moore: The fact that last year’s primary was a courteous slapfight compared to 2008 makes the would-be Wilmer canonizers*/pink bunnies’ continuing butthurt even more indefensible.
*Of course I’m not referring to all his supporters (e.g., JL), just the wankers.
mdblanche
@schrodingers_cat: Now you’re just being silly. There’s no way he’d ever sabotage the Democratic Party from within, because to do that he’d have to join it.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Suzanne: At this point, is your boss affirmatively defending boss or just concern-trolling critics?
And it’s worth noting that of the three writers mentioned above, only Shephard’s engaged in Chelsea concern-wankery..
Shalimar
@Big Ole Hound: Of the 241* Dems in Congress, 164 are male and 77 are female. For a women’s party, we elect a lot of men.
*including Sanders and King, who caucus with Dems
OzarkHillbilly
@jeffreyw: Mustard is the only acceptable condiment for a burger, (imnsho) but in this case it would be sacrilege. You know I’m right.
Spinoza is my Co-pilot
@Big Ole Hound: Go fuck yourself, Big Ole Asshole.
Whether you are a troll or just someone too dim and blinkered to understand why your comment is getting so much pushback here doesn’t much matter. Go fuck yourself.
WereBear
@OzarkHillbilly: Did you know mustard on a burger is a kinda MidWestern thing? In any case, not a NYC metro thing. In NY diners, I would ask for mustard, and they thought that was such an odd request they would not hear me.
amk
Decades of fucked up corrupt governance almost at all levels by white doods ended up with the current thugly scum at the top and yet these morons whine about women and others.
tobie
Among Vyse’s other TNR gems was an article entitled “Don’t Believe the Hype on Jon Ossoff.” The article’s a little better than the headline would indicate. Basically he’s saying that neither a win nor a loss is a bellweather for 2018. One can debate this point but it’s at least a plausible argument. But what gets my craw is that if the party didn’t invest in this race, Vyse would no doubt be there pooh-poohing the Democrats for not adopting a 50-state strategy. You can’t win with these folks. They’re convinced they know better. They’ve found the gospel and we’re just refusing to listen.
Shalimar
@BBA: The Sanders supporters who want to tear down the Democratic party and start fresh are useful idiots for the Russians, which is the main point. Most Sanders supporters are fine, and aren’t fucking moronic assholes. I still consider myself a supporter of Sanders’ agenda, just not stupid enough to think we should break what we already have to implement it. The most important thing for the country right now is taking power away from Republicans and undoing their damage, and you don’t do that by constantly pissing off most of the people who oppose them.
liberal
Don’t know what the TNR writer said, but Hillary should bow out because she’s not a talented politician. She’s not charismatic, she’s a poor tactician, and she doesn’t seem to able to pick good subordinates.
oldster
Thank you, Betty!
That slimy article is a perfect example of Clinton Derangement Syndrome–taking every utterance she makes in the most damaging possible light.
TNR should be ashamed of itself for that one. And I say this as a big fan of Jeet Heer. They are not as bad as in the old Sully days. But this is execrable.
Kristine
Late to the party, but had to add ‘wonderful rant, Betty.’
amk
lil low energy jebbie must be ruing the day he did not punch the thug.
OzarkHillbilly
@WereBear: Did not know that.
Shalimar
@liberal: Bow out of what? Giving commencement speeches? WTF are you talking about?
Chris
@BBA:
The fact that the MSM is treating Sanders with the kind of kid gloves that they only ever break out for closet Republican trash like Joe Lieberman tells you everything you need to know about him.
And of course he’s too fucking stupid to realize it. He’s basking in the glory of his messiah moment.
liberal
@patroclus: for presidency? She’s too old. As are Sanders, Warren, and Sherrod Brown.
Peale
@Shalimar: first it was speeches to Goldman Sachs. Now this. When will she stop her shameless self promotion. XD
OzarkHillbilly
@liberal:
Tell that to all the people who keep inviting her to speak.
liberal
@Shalimar: leading the resistance.
If she wants to rally the troops and do lots of fundraising, great. Leadership role? She’s a horrible tactician and doesn’t have a populist bone in her body. Wrong person at the wrong time.
Uncle Ebeneezer
Imagine if HRC had showed more anger in her speech… :p
Teddys Person
Conversation between my 40 something straight white brother prior to the election:
brother: Trump’s an asshole, and I support Dem’s policies. BUT there’s just something about Hilary that rubs me the wrong way.
me: her lady parts aren’t that scary
brother: inarticulate babble
me: WTF
I offer up my brother to be first in line for the nut kicking.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Shalimar:
Yes, she shouldn’t give commencement speeches even when invited, and even as the most famous alum of the college, and Obama shouldn’t get paid for speeches even as the best loved currently living president who happened to president while black, because it makes mediocre white men feel icky.
Shalimar
@patroclus: Hillary Clinton already said she isn’t running for public office again. Will she or won’t she talk is just masturbation at this point.
MikeBoyScout
Thank you Betty.
Paul Begala's Pink Tie
FUCK YES. Tears in my eyes reading this.
Corner Stone
@liberal: Jesus, stand down there cold warrior! Look around, I think your horses are over yare and your carts be way over yare.
Good God. She isn’t angling to be the leader of any thing.
SiubhanDuinne
@liberal:
Don’t know how you define “too old,” but Warren is 67 and Sherrod Brown is only 64 (HRC is 69, and BS 75).
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@MomSense:
I’ll drive then. Thelma and Louise reboot with Madame Defarge riding shotgun.
Bobby Thomson
@Starfish:
Obviously. That’s prima facie evidence they are rat fuckers on the Republican (or Russian) payroll. Same diff these days.
Shalimar
@Teddys Person: That line could fill every stadium in the country at this point. It is amazing how many Democrats know the Clintons have been the subject of a massive disinformation campaign for the last 25 years and yet still internalize the constant negative press to such a degree that they hate her. The vast majority of her negative image comes from straight-up, Scaife-funded bullshit. At least the lies about Bill were based on actual character flaws. The Hillary stories were spun from absolutely nothing.
Feathers
@Shalimar: I like Sanders agenda, loathe those who think Sanders and his supporters get to choose how we get there.
One thing Samders supporters really don’t see is how much of the early support in the primaries was about the ideas, not the man, and how it melted away when the man revealed his petty and divisive nature.
Barbara
@tobie: It is worth noting that special elections in 2009 were won by Dems (one in upstate New York) and it certainly was not a harbinger of continuing good fortune for Democrats.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
Well well well, lookie here. The white supremacist murderer was also a Bernie bro.
What does the alt left and the alt right have in common? Thinking, thinking, thinking….
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Starfish:
Wikileaks first dump was the day after the Access Hollywood pussy grabbing tape revelation.
stinger
This. I will Never. Get. Over. It.
Applejinx
Pff. Delegate Bernie to lead what? In response to what? Do you really think there is only one resistance and it wears pussy hats and reveres Hillary Clinton?
You know what? I’m not even mad, and won’t even be offended at a nut-kicking. All I ask is, don’t stop with me! Once you have kicked the leftists and socialists and male Bernie supporters (those who did as he said and voted for HRC anyway, and those who did as Putin said and refused to)… after you have kicked us, for fuck’s sake keep kicking. Don’t stop there, that would be despicable.
I always said I wanted HRC to co-opt the energy on the left and pretend it was all she ever wanted. I THOUGHT she might be doing that in office, and so she got my vote. I didn’t trust her to do it, but I had no choice, and I’d rather have taken that chance. Thanks, Putin.
Of course you’re mad. You’re not the only resistance, but by God you represent an important one. Don’t you dare stand down, don’t you dare be quiet: that time is forever over. And I say that as a nut-kickee who fully expects a shitload of hate and bile for daring to not trust and believe in Hillary, which I still don’t. I won’t lie about that, but what you’re doing is important (lots more important than anything HRC has actually done: she doesn’t deserve you folks, really she doesn’t, but you do you).
ALL of the Resistance. For ALL of the reasons. We’re not short of reasons, and the reasons aren’t mutually exclusive.
Barbara
@Teddys Person: Paraphrasing what I tell female attorneys who are appearing in front of a judge for the first time, it’s not like she was asking him out for a date so her gender should not be an issue for him.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
I am in moderation for using the pu$$y word about the pu$$y grabber. We need a better filter.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@liberal: GFY. There was plenty of charisma in that speech. And she got more votes than anyone besides Obama, so her skills are evident and measurable.
Captain C
@Baud: Darth Bro: The mean lady wouldn’t let me win!
Applejinx
Pff. Delegate Bernie to lead what? In response to what? Do you really think there is only one resistance and it wears pussy hats and reveres Hillary Clinton?
You know what? I’m not even mad, and won’t even be offended at a nut-kicking. All I ask is, don’t stop with me! Once you have kicked the leftists and socialists and male Bernie supporters (those who did as he said and voted for HRC anyway, and those who did as Putin said and refused to)… after you have kicked us, for fuck’s sake keep kicking. Don’t stop there, that would be despicable.
I always said I wanted HRC to co-opt the energy on the left and pretend it was all she ever wanted. I THOUGHT she might be doing that in office, and so she got my vote. I didn’t trust her to do it, but I had no choice, and I’d rather have taken that chance. Thanks, Putin.
Of course you’re mad. You’re not the only resistance, but by God you represent an important one. Don’t you dare stand down, don’t you dare be quiet: that time is forever over. And I say that as a nut-kickee who fully expects a shitload of hate and bile for daring to not trust and believe in Hillary, which I still don’t. I won’t lie about that, but what you’re doing is important (lots more important than anything HRC has actually done: she doesn’t deserve you folks, really she doesn’t, but you do you).
ALL of the Resistance. For ALL of the reasons. We’re not short of reasons, and the reasons aren’t mutually exclusive. (revised ‘cos I think I missed a moderation-word, and think I know what that word must have been)
jeffreyw
@WereBear: Pickles, onions, and mustard are my standard toppings but I do like a little variety. Dissing mustard on this blog? Grounds for a time-out!
Teddys Person
@Shalimar: I got pretty weary of people during the election saying that Clinton was just as bad ethically as Trump. If I had a nickel for every time I explained “yes, the Clintons have been subject to a number of investigations. This made headlines. When the investigations turned up nothing, crickets from the media and no headlines. So, people just assumed the charges were true.” But for many people, these investigations achieved the desired result – the Clintons are guilty – regardless of the truth.
ruemara
@Big Ole Hound: Truly sorry. It’s hard to see anything with your head stuck 2 feet up your rectum.
currants
@Virginia: What she said!! I love your writing, Betty C.
@stinger: Me either. I was –still am– awed by Sec. Clinton, because that “ultimate confirmation” knocked me pretty far down. Hearing from/about her now and then over the last couple months has been a help; watching her yesterday was powerful, inspiring, motivating. Her comment about not being afraid of your own anger is important, but it must be paired with the willingness to be not-liked by those who think women should just be “nice”–a characteristic no one ever requires of men in public, as far as I can tell.
Suzanne
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
The entire election could be summed up thusly.
The other thing that kills me is……does this dipshit dudebro realize that the Resistance doesn’t have a leader? It’s not an organized thing. There’s no election for Dear Leader of the Resistance.
bupalos
Yeah, there is no Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic party. There’s a Warren wing, which BS stupidly refused to join along about March 1 and thus made himself worse than politically irrelevant. Because BS does not and never has understood practical politics and actually moving the ball down the field.
I haven’t been enthused about Clinton raising her profile, but her speech here is unimpeachable. Politically I think she does represent a particular wing of the Democratic party (or at least she always did) and that wing is just not where the focus should be. But I can now see how the dynamics of having her on the field could work out well.
Pluky
@Shalimar: at her alma mater no less. @SiubhanDuinne:
My Truth Hurts
“But no faction within our party gets to tell the other to sit down and shut up. Not now. Not ever.”
Um… you just spewed 240 words doing exactly that. In fact you explicitly told him to shut the fuck up.
“Kerry, Gore and Dukakis? Just shut the fuck up right there, Mr. Vyse.”
You’re an idiot.
ruemara
@Applejinx: you need care for your CDS.
Applejinx
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Just as an aside: ALL of the people I directly worked for in the New Hampshire Bernie campaign were women, mostly a lot younger than me. My immediate boss was a woman and she was awesome. Given the chance I would cheerfully spend the rest of my life never voting for a man again, much like I didn’t vote for a man in the last Presidential election.
Let the blustering 70-year-olds go on about whether they just can’t vote for a woman, or whether ‘men’ won’t. I’m Gen X and I don’t see this attitude continuing. I guess it will continue as long as the Boomers exploit every policy angle to make sure THEY get health care and remain immortal ;P
trollhattan
Finally got around to watching Maher and Cornell West doing the Cornell West thing, slagging on Hillary and while grudgingly allowing every human is better than Trump sticking like epoxy to his belief Hillary is the corporatist antichrist and now lets cackle and wave off any notion that he’s even remotely off-target. The Bernistas are going to continue being a problem for the Democratic Party and as such, increase Trump’s chances of remaining in power.
Steeplejack
@Feathers:
Good point.
currants
@Corner Stone: YES. It was all that. @the Conster, la Citoyenne: AWESOME. Can I be the navigator?
Applejinx
@ruemara: Fair enough, but I’m saying even WITHIN ‘CDS’: women are awesome, women should rule, even Clinton got my vote, and any marching and nut kicking you folks do is more than justified. I think that even though I still do not like or trust Clinton. It doesn’t alter the fact that this change needs to happen, no matter who is ‘YAS QUEEN’.
My Truth Hurts
I’ll never forget the time I brought up a valid criticism of Clinton here in the comments on Balloon Juice and was told to kill myself and then banned. Good times.
Get fucked assholes. You are why we keep losing elections. Stubborn dead end baby boomer losers.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@trollhattan: “In fact, one of the only worthy contributions an Asshole can make to society is to go up to a Douchebag and inform him of how much of a Douchebag he is and to button his shirt up, change pants, put down that phone and shut the hell up. It is probably the only time an Asshole will receive, and be worthy of, a standing ovation.”
Chet Murthy
@liberal:
FTFY. Unfncking believable. She said (in 1995) “Women’s rights are human rights”. She’s been a feminist all her fncking life! Where do you come off saying she doesn’t have a populist yadda yadda argle bargle. Or does “populist” equal “white male cracker shit-ass snuff-dipping kicker”?
Ruckus
@Barbara:
Because she kicked his ass. Because she is a far better human being. Dudebros think that is/should be not allowed.
Applejinx
@My Truth Hurts: Welcome to the Internet. For that matter, welcome to Balloon Juice and the Democratic Party.
Did you think you get to criticize the Queen and NOT get a severe nut-kicking? It’s no different from if you went and tried to criticize Corbyn on a dirtbag left forum. Also, women in particular are told to shut up practically since birth. If women are telling you to kill yourself, good for them. You’re not immune or exempt in any way, and you’re singling out a sore spot: it’s really arrogant not to expect blowback. Shame on you for thinking women should just politely accept your opinion.
bupalos
@Peale: Warren isn’t too old. She’ll be like 69 when the campaign gets cranking and honestly she looks 10-15 years younger to me and she generally crackles with energy. Plus women live longer so she deserves a bonus there too.
Kycole
Captain C
@tobie: And yet they never give details about their gospel, rather, they just tell everyone Elat that they’re doing it wrong.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@bupalos:
Clinton represents the proud tradition of the liberal Democratic wing of the party that forms coalitions and works to secure the first class citizenship of women, PoC and immigrants and the civil and repro rights that flow therefrom. The party that whites fled en masse since 1964 over integration of schools, neighborhoods, workplaces, unions, cities. You know, the rights that Wilmer feels free to negotiate away because “identity politics” are a distraction from his glorious revolution of “economically anxious” dudebros.
Westyny
@SiubhanDuinne: Moreover, in 2020 Clinton will be a year younger than Wilmer was last year. And women generally live longer than men . . . Not that there’s a double standard or anything . . .
Jager
@amk:
trump is fat, out of shape, lazy as hell. I’d bet he’s got high blood pressure, ED, he’s pre-diabetic and his blood tests redline every fcking category. Come to think of it he’s just like most of his voters.
Suzanne
@Chet Murthy:
Only white dudes who never went to college with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks are Real Americans, I.e. Real People.
Anyone else who is different from that is just engaging in identity politics.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Applejinx:
Calling Clinton “queen” by a bunch of useful idiots who literally worship a crusty old phony messiah is pretty great, and by great I mean clueless and exhibiting a laughable lack of self-awareness.
Zelma
Thank you Betty for putting my thoughts into words. I spent my career as a woman in what was then a man’s field. And like every woman of my generation (I’m pre-baby boomer by a few years), I faced discrimination and prejudice. I have watched with dismay how this society is moving backwards on women’s rights. I had such hope that a victory by Hillary would begin to turn things around. I have been depressed since 11/8. Tell me, is there an opposite word for misogyny? Because I’m getting pretty close to adopting it as my byword.
Teddys Person
@Jager: While other G7 leaders strolled through Taormina, Dolt45 rode in a golf cart.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@SiubhanDuinne: I think the lower limit on age would be “would be 70 to 75 on inauguration day 2020.” So under this criterion, Warren would be serviceable of suboptimal, Brown would be just fine, and Wilmer/Biden/HRC would be no-goes.
enplaned
I’d like all the Democratic elite of the past 10-20 years to take a step back, Hillary included, but also Sanders, Pelosi, etc. They all have reflexes that are out of date and all contributed, one way or the other, to the current hole the Democrats (and the country) find themselves in. And the country is desperate for something new — Sanders, Pelosi, Hillary, et al — none of those meet the need.
I love Obama, but even he is culpable. The party did not invest in the next generation or downticket while he was in power, and he bears some responsibility for that. Further, Obama, in my view, was a little too much the boy scout. Trying to logic the GOP into sanity is like trying to speak softly to a rabid dog rather than putting it down. Putting Comey in charge of the FBI is an example of where Obama fucked up, and fucked up bad.
Paula
AGREE.
Yoda Dog
Awesome rant, Betty. Its a shame to see the thread bring out the shitheads but also totally expected by this point.
Cheers, Shitheads.
Yoda oot.
Suzanne
@Betty Cracker:
Is it, though? Must it be?
Ruckus
@MomSense:
You have the (sharp) tools in your hand if you are knitting. Use them.
sukabi
@Steeplejack: pretty sure that’s the gist of his excrement…republican losers run again and again and again until they “win” , and they seem to have permanently booked positions on all the political yapper shows, are called repeatedly to offer opinion, commentary on current events. Whereas dems are expected to quietly disappear from the public square.
Epicurus
Don’t hold anything back, Betty, tell us how you really feel! And brava for calling out this ridiculous bit of “mansplaining.” Ambulatory genital wart…heh heh.
Yoda Dog
@Epicurus: She always outdoes herself with the trumpian monikers!
Doug R
@My Truth Hurts: Back atcha.
Gelfling 545
@japa21: ?
SiubhanDuinne
@Jager:
Heh, true. Just saw this tweet on FB:
LOL.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Zelma: “Misandry,” which has of course long since been overused and toxified to the point of meaninglessness.
Doug R
@Chyron HR: …and Nixon disappeared after losing to Kennedy, right?
Spinoza is my Co-pilot
@Villago Delenda Est:
OT, but pertinent to your comment:
Watched a pretty good serio-comic Coen Brothers-like movie on Netflix last night, an early 2017 released film called I Don’t Feel at Home in This World Anymore (definitely recommend, particularly for anyone who enjoyed Coen movies like Blood Simple, Fargo, Burn After Reading).
The main theme explored in the movie is “people sure can be assholes” (sometimes even the essentially “good” people). This is set up from the beginning with a series of scenes involving the protagonist (nursing assistant Ruth) where people do dickish things of varying degrees like knock items off a grocery shelf and just keep on walking, etc..
The very first dick-move shown is some dipshit “rolling coal” in a pickup in rush-hour traffic. Love it that the creators of this movie chose that as their first example (from the trivial to the most-serious) of people being assholes.
And BTW, your nym? Absolutely.
msdc
…and a small but locally decisive faction of faux-progressive purity ponies. #neverforget
Back in January and February a number of acquaintances who met that description were complaining that Clinton wasn’t doing anything to help the resistance (while of course they were sharing and retweeting everything their Dear Leader said). Now they’re complaining that she’s too visible.
This is how it was always going to be. If they’re going to criticize Clinton no matter what she does, she might as well do what she wants and say exactly what’s on her mind. Should be fun to watch.
Doug R
@Big Ole Hound: Replace “Democrat” with “Bernie” and “women” with “men” and you’ll see why Bernie can never be president.
Yoda Dog
@My Truth Hurts: Wasn’t truth. Didn’t hurt. I want my monies back!!!!!
CarolDuhart2
Applejinx: what makes her untrustworthy except 30 years of bile (and anger that “woman doesn’t know her place”)? She’s quietly devout, works for women and children, clean as a whistle.
Chet Murthy
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Huh. I can see how “misandry” is a sort of opposite of “misogyny”. My first thought was ‘feminism” though. Second thought was “matriarchy”. Different kind of opposite I guess.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Doug R:
Good for you for trying, but it’s like explaining water to fish.
amk
@Applejinx: Nice projection there, dear leader asshole.
Teddys Person
@CarolDuhart2:
This. So much this. She’s spent decades putting her head down and doing the hard work of making progress in this country. I admit that I had CDS fatigue and wasn’t excited about HRC at first, but once I was reminded of who she is and what she’s done. I was devastated on 11/9.
bupalos
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: That really isn’t her brand, not to me. I mean, of course different people represent different things to different people…. maybe for younger people that could be more true than I know? But I lived through the 70’s and 80’s and since the late 90’s have been very engaged on the ground with environmental/energy issues. For me, when I look at a longer context, the party took a pragmatic DLC turn with B Clinton that was an accommodation to the Reagan mind-numbing of America. I can’t say I’ve ever fully decided that was simply a mistake, maybe it was a necessary survival tactic. But however it’s conceived, it deferred some bills that I think we still pay, and I have a very hard time not equating Hillary with that turn, a turn that at points embraced borderline racist rhetoric, poor shaming, and parts of trickle-down and militarism and corporatism.
I’m all for second acts though, and even if B&H present as a team, it’s not entirely fair to equate those two politicians. Hillary pretty much HAD to walk a certain path and probably picked up some historical dirt on the way, but that too needs to be seen in the context of the paths that were open to women at that time. I’m just a lot more interested in this point at electing other capable women that can flex their muscles unencumbered by scar tissue.
Gian
@OzarkHillbilly:
reagan lost the ’76 primary
Haroldo
@Roger Moore: Doubtless a Rocky Mountain Oyster burger.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Haroldo: Wait, what the hell do ball sandwiches have to do with anything?
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@bupalos:
Hillary went after Obama’s coalition, which is why she beat Wilmer like a drum, and why her candidacy was so susceptible to alt left and alt right ratfucking. You should only judge her by who aligned against her. Let’s take a quick look at that list, shall we?
KKK
KGB/FSB
FBI
Nazis
MRA
Low info voters of left and right
Trump
Sanders
MSM – NYT, every cable news station
for starters, and she still got 3 million more votes.
Recall
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
“Christian expressed support for “Sanders/Stein 2017″—which some will certainly seize upon as a distraction. And it is a distraction, because the main current of Christian’s ravings, online and off, was race hatred. “I want a job in Norway cutting off the heads of people that Circumcize Babies,” he wrote.”
Mnemosyne
Aw, man, I slept late and missed a fun thread! Sign me up for the road trip where we travel around knitting and kicking dudebros in the nuts. I even have some comfy hiking boots for the nut-kicking.
SuzyQ
Tell that truth!!! Fuckem all!!!
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Recall:
He supported Sanders/Stein because he hates Wall Street, or something.
PROTIP for Wilmer supporters: when you say “Bernie would’ve won”, you mean Wilmer was going to get this guy’s vote, by out Trumping Trump. PROGRESSIVE!
Chet Murthy
Argh. Will. Not. Mansplain.
Jager
@Spinoza is my Co-pilot:
Modern diesel engines are incredibly efficient, you have to “trick” them to roll coal.. These assholes fool with the injection computer by adding a switch to make the engine believe it needs more fuel than it does. I asked a diesel technician about this when I had my car in for service a couple of years ago, he said “if anything goes wrong with the engine, these stupid shit heads are going to be surprised they voided the warranty by screwing around with it.”
FlipYrWhig
@Applejinx: YOU are Gen X? Everything you say and do radiates “62-year-old with a wispy gray ponytail.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I have MSNBC on mute, waiting to see if anyone interesting comes on or the less likely even that I get inspired to start on chores. What I’m getting from chyrons and posted quotes: Trump called his foreign tour a “home run” in his speech to US troops, and McMaster, asked about the reports that trump’s closest adviser suggested to Russians that they open a “back channel” on Russian network, said “we’re not gonna comment on Jared. We’re just not gonna comment”.
Good fucking christ.
rikyrah
I am late to this thread, but you are on point, BC.
Tell that Truth!!!
Heidi Mom
@Big Ole Hound: Well, you didn’t observe Hillary’s campaign here in my blue-in-a-sea-of-red college town. Our chief organizer, and one of the most enthusiastic Hillary supporters I’ve ever met, was a young guy just out of college. Our most dedicated volunteer, who came in every day after work, was a guy in his mid-thirties. Another dedicated volunteer was a young man who was still in high school. Lots of men of retirement age were canvassers and phone bankers. I doubt they’ve changed their political stance since then.
Recall
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
The reporter who interviewed him thought otherwise.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“the one and only Hugh Hewitt”
I think I’ll go scrub my toilet.
Chet Murthy
@Big Ole Hound: Hey gramps, thanks for lettin’ us know that the men in your neck of the woods are all Putinfluffing rapists and white supremacists. Glad you think so much of your fellow men.
Because that’s precisely the content of your first post in this thread: “men aren’t gonna vote to save their country, unless they’re literally bribed”. It’s amazing, that we actually think more of the men around you, than you do.
ETA: And lemme remind you that we KNEW before the election that he was a fraud, a rapist, and a Russian puppet. We KNEW. These *men* you seem to have such a Freudian line on, voted for him when they wouldn’t have left their wallet, or their wives/daughters, in the same room alone with him. They VOTED to leave MY COUNTRY in the same room alone with him.
So again: you think they’re traitors, all these men. WE hope they’re not.
trollhattan
@Teddys Person:
In discussing her commencement speech some asked “why didn’t she say these things during the campaign?” The answer of course is she did. Part of the media’s Hillary treatment was their soundbite selection, which always, always reinforced the “she’s shrill” narrative. In contrast, with Trump it was “let the camera roll so we can see what our amusement unit does this time.”
I think in sum they always believed she’d win in a walkaway and so never treated the campaign seriously nor put an iota of self-reflection into whether they were treating Hillary fairly or giving Trump a pass by normalizing his bizarre behavior and beliefs.
Chet Murthy
@trollhattan:
And nothing’s really changed. Maggie *retch* Haberman. Sock and the Meat Puppet. etc.
ETA: Oh damn! Missed my chance to say “But her EMAILZ!”
BC in Illinois
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
First, I think you mean “upper limit on age.”
Second, if 75 on inauguration day is the cut off, then why is Hillary Clinton on your list of “no-goes”?
Jan, 2021:
SBrown – 68
EWarren – 71
HRClinton – 73
JBiden – 78
BSanders – 79
Mnemosyne
@Chet Murthy:
It does kind of amaze me that the same people who sneer at man-hating feminists have a worse view of men than the vast majority of feminists I know. They seem to regard most men as barely sentient children who have zero self-control or sense of morality, but who can’t be corrected or told they’re wrong because they’ll lash out violently.
That doesn’t fit most of the men I know, including the one I’m married to, but most of the men I know voted for Hillary.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@BC in Illinois: @BC in Illinois: “70 to 75” was meant to indicate a range for the upper age limit; I thought Clinton would be 74 on Inauguration Day 2020.
BC in Illinois
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
It’s Inauguration Day 2021 and she will be 73.
Granted, she’s no Angela Merkel (62) or Nicola Sturgeon (46) . . .
bmaccnm
@Waspuppet: We still hear from President McCain and Vice President Palin on the regular.
Chet Murthy
@Mnemosyne:
*Well*, I think that in reality, these men (and I suspect, Big Old Hound) think that this characterization of (esp. white) men isn’t a negative characterization. They think it’s OK, perhaps even good/manly that men are this way. And that Dems need to accommodate that — by stomping on everybody else. Of course, BOH would never come out and say that, b/c then he couldn’t claim to be a Dem. So he’s either a troll/sock-puppet, or self-hating. Hard to tell, but honestly, who cares?
Like you, I’m surrounded by progressives. I grew up in a different world, and truthfully, I don’t think I could stand the world in which some of the commenters here live. The idea of having to sit still for the kind of shit that some of the commentariat puts up with …. oh god. So glad I live in a city where I’m the crotchety old conservative type instead of a rabid leftwing commie, like I’d be anywhere else. Uh … well, at least, when it doesn’t involve men being able to sunbathe nude at the corner of Castro & Market. I’ll never forgive my supervisor for sponsoring the law that outlawed that. Our first line of resistance to Bubba from Bumfnck Egypt, and he had to go dismantling it!
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@BC in Illinois: Then again, no one’s seriously entertaining the possibility of her, Joe or Wilmer running again in 2020, although I do wish for a gubernatorial run next year.
Applejinx
@FlipYrWhig: Atari wave Gen X, born in 1968. Voted for Clinton. If I had to roll back time I would still have to vote for Clinton and hope the times would guide her, because
@bupalos: Bupalos speaks for me. I don’t see a 1930s labor organizer in HRC. I see the eagerness to have America prosper through natural gas (protip: fracking is part of that equation and something America does better than anyone, but is also a horrorshow). I see the belief in aspirationalism, the idea that anyone can work their way to the top, conflated with this notion that because anyone can do it, everyone can and will do it. And the math just isn’t there to support that part. The math is even worse than in the 90s when Bill C was deconstructing Welfare. I don’t see HRC with a significantly different worldview. This is where the constant snark about ‘economic insecurity’ comes from: a lot of you folks, especially older and well-off folks retired or working for somebody with a good job, just don’t see the world out there, or you figure it’s an easy solution: just move out of the shitty dying rural towns and begin migrating around improving your salary, like a normal person.
But if I wanted to argue that stuff with you guys I’d be here more (or would speak up more). I’ve more or less given up, but there are things about the ‘blinkered Democrat’ viewpoint that I still find admirable. It’s a pity you guys went full Red State, but I think that’s more the rule than the exception these days. I guess we’ll all see what happens.
Corner Stone
@Applejinx:
There’s a shocker. You want to cap this comment off by saying something about water being wet?
Mnemosyne
Since this thread is close to dead, I’m going to articulate a thought I had this morning that is going to piss people off in multiple directions, but I can’t stop wondering about it:
A lot of people are pissed off at Obama for not pushing harder to tank Trump’s candidacy since every sign was there that Russia was behind it. But we also know now that the entire American right wing, from politicians to media to the churches, is infested with Russian propaganda — as Adam keeps saying, it’s not just one or two crooked politicians, it’s penetration at all levels.
So what if Obama made the difficult choice to let Trump and the Russians win the battle knowing that the whole façade would come crumbling down sooner rather than later? What if he did it knowing full well that Trump would end up destroying the Republicans from the inside?
What would have been more patriotic, papering over the fact that the goddamned Russians are controlling the Republican Party, or letting them have a temporary victory that will be Pyrric.
There’s a reason that “Please proceed, governor,” became a catchphrase for Obama after 2012. He has invited the Republican Party to destroy themselves, knowing that they won’t be able to resist the opportunity.
Frankensteinbeck
@Chet Murthy:
Disclaimer: I think Big Old Hound is a performance art troll concocting a Poe’s Law post to see who believes it’s sincere.
That said…
I grew up in exactly the world where the standards of manliness you’re discussing apply. Yes, they think it’s good, and will punish, often with physical violence, young men who do not show sufficient allegiance to the ethic. They believe men are supposed to be callous beasts whose value is judged only by how much sex they get. Since we’re punished brutally for even questioning the perfection of this archtype, unfortunately few of us realized that it’s men hurting us, not women.
Applejinx
@Corner Stone: I could say Bernie would have won, but the thing is I’m not entirely sure of that. I voted for him in a primary VERY early on. If I had to vote in a primary that was, say, post-Nevada, I would’ve been really conflicted and I’ll never know what I would have done in that event. Vermont was real early. Back then, it was the message we were voting for, and the birds and animals of the forest had not yet become his friends ;P
Corner Stone
@Mnemosyne:
I’m speechless.
BC in Illinois
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
Agreed. All I want for the next 18 months is to crush the Republican Party, see them driven before us, and hear the lamentation of their pundits.
And this will come from people younger than myself. (Older than EWarren, younger than HRClinton.)
SFBayAreaGal
Damn Betty I don’t smoke however after this fabulous post, I’m about ready to light one up. I’m ready for some nut kicking.
Gin & Tonic
@Mnemosyne: But they won’t destroy themselves. And barring a massive M.I., Donald J Trump will be President until at least January 20, 2021.
BellyCat
Among the many brilliant rants here over the years, this, unquestionably, sets a new and higher bar.
Fan-fucking-tastic, Betty!
Chet Murthy
@Mnemosyne:
Mnem, I love him as much as you do (I think). But I think this is reading too much into him. He’s an institutionalist. He believes in the history and continuity of our democracy. [I wanna say he -has- to: as a black American, what -else- can he believe in? And I’m in that same place.] When faced with a choice between a literal constitutional crisis involving likely mass insurrection and who-knows-what kind of reaction from the other branches of government, and ….. hoping that with adequate preparation those other branches would do their job, he reached for …. (drum roll) the institutional solution.
I guess I’m saying: he never was, and never will be, a Man On Horseback. And we should be thankful for that, b/c he’s a better man than that.
Less meanderingly: if one believes that our institutions are -already- so decrepit that they cannot successfully eject this invading Orange Pus and his flaccid horde, why should we believe they’d go along with a coup pre-Jan/20/2017 ? [b/c that’s what it would have been — an extra-constitutional coup.] If he’d deposed Dolt45-to-be, wouldn’t have those forces just risen up and deposed him return? At which point, we’d be in even deeper shit than we already are?
He did the best he could, within the institutions — he tried to convince ZEGS/Yertle to jointly make a statement, he prepared the IC to resist, (I’m sure) he prepared our allies to rally to our aid, he prepared our allies to be wary of sharing intel with us.
All that said: it’s a sign of just how deep we are in the shit, that the IC is willing to jeopardize methods (e.g. Kislyak’s comms to Russia being bugged) to take down Putinfluffer. I -do- think PBHO (PBUH) expected the Rs to remember their civics lessons a little sooner. Of course, they haven’t yet, so who knows how much of our intelligence assets/sources/methods we’ll have to burn, in order to make enough intel public, to take him down.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Corner Stone: I can see Obama keeping Comey on after the fact to achieve the desired outcome. Keeping the Russia scandal under wraps is ridiculous contradiction-heightening.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Mnemosyne:
He knew the Republicans can’t help themselves, and that they’re just dumb and incompetent. I’m sure it was an agonizing decision, but when McConnell wouldn’t sign on to the bipartisan report about Russian interference, I think he felt going it alone and announcing it would end up worse, somehow, because our media was already out of control about her emails.
HeleninEire
Late to the party (was taking my pre-pub nap).
Righteous rant, Betty. Imma share it far and wide.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The Secretaries of Defense and Homeland Security issued a joint statement that Russia had targeted the DNC in order to influence the presidential election on October 7. With everything we know now, Republicans still feel secure either outright flacking for trump– see Trey Gowdy’s questioning of John Brennan last week– or hemming and hawing and hedging their bets– see John McCain, Lindsey Graham and other alleged hawks. I gather Quist didn’t talk much about Russia, and neither is Ossoff– I’m not second-guessing either one of them (and given the demographics of GA-06, I suspect the issue is having some effect, keeping the race tight, but it should, in my mind, all Ossoff and Handel are talking about). In light of the Kushner news today, I am feeling especially gobsmacked at the relative ho-hum of the political class on this issue. I don’t know how they all aren’t running around with their hair on fire. But politicians respond to their voters, and it looks like the country, as a whole, is pretty fucking passive about this issue.
Villago Delenda Est
@liberal: And you are well established dogshit.
Chet Murthy
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
BJT, YES YES. QFT. It hadn’t occurred to me, but yes, this is an even -deeper- reason that PBHO (PBUH) would never have deliberately let Putinfluffer get installed as a way to kill the R party. It’s a “heighten-the-contradictions” strategy. And I think we know PBHO would never have succumbed to this: his entire history tells us that that’s not what he does, not who he is.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Chet Murthy: also, he didn’t “keep the Russia scandal under wraps”
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Of course he did. He knew in 2015, if not before.
R. Bailey
Wow. Go, Betty, go!!! Glorious!
Chet Murthy
@Corner Stone: If you mean that he didn’t divulge classified information that might have endangered sources&methods, yes, he kept that under wraps. But every chance he got to announce that something public-domain or nearly-so indicated the attack, he did so, right?
And it was clear well before the election that Putinfluffer was a … putlinfluffer. Anybody who thought otherwise was deluding themselves.
Again; yes, he kept (and they’re still keeping) the incontrovertible evidence under wraps. AFAICT, the content of Flynn’s intercepted phone calls has *not* been published. I feel like we gotta give the IC credit: they’re trying *hard* to not burn down their networks/sources/methods, while still evicting the Pustule. Think back to Valerie Plame: when she was outed, *every* foreign contact (esp. in Pakistan, ISTR) would have been instantly suspect and investigated by their local intel agency. Lotta damage probably was done. The IC is trying to avoid that as much as possible. It’s a delicate thing.
Mnemosyne
@Chet Murthy:
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I dunno, it’s mostly Saturday morning bullshitting. But I do feel that he realized there was no way he was going to be able to go it alone, and once McConnell and the Republicans chose Russia and Putin over the United States of America, there wasn’t much Obama could realistically do.
I mean, both he and Hillary said, repeatedly, that Russia was interfering in our election. Obama’s national security advisor said the same thing. There was a consensus from the intelligence community that it was happening. And our press and political class didn’t give a shit. In fact, if Obama had acted, they would have attacked him mercilessly.
So, to me, it’s no surprise that Obama decided to let the system work and walk away. What else was he supposed to do in the face of unified opposition from Congress and the MSM?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
what did “acting” look like?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and, more importantly, neither did a whole lot of voters. It appears they still don’t. How many of you non-political junkie friends and relations in meatspace are up in arms about this?
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’ve never gotten a good answer to that. It’s always that Obama should have done more, with “more” remaining unspecified.
BCHS Class of 1980
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve grown to appreciate Hewitt in one narrow sense: he is an excellent weathervane for the mainstream, non-Trumpist-but-definitely-bound-to-Trump GOP. What I learned today is that their response will be some combo of “Backchannels are OK” and “It’s all ‘alleged’ at this point.”
No Drought No More
Had she not supported the 2003 Bush-Cheney plot to war, Hillary Clinton would have been elected president in 2008.
By supporting it, however, she crawled into bed with the war criminal wing of the republican party and took the party with her. In effect, she extended Bush-Cheney her seal of approval. (To be fair, so did John Kerry and too many other democrats Gephart, Schumer, et.al. But I speak specifically of her).
For all Hillary’s righteous denunciations about what went wrong to elect Trump, that’s the one salient fact she ignores. Which isn’t surprising, since she’s been conveniently ignoring it since March of 2003. But it proved an infamous and portentous decision, one that forged a rotten link between the American fascists of the GOP and (both) the spirit and reputation of entire democratic party. It served to legitimize the treachery of the one, and did serious damage to the the other.
By clinging to false narratives about the origins of that war, too (i.e., “honorable people made honest mistakes”), an ongoing American catastrophe is being perpetuated and sustained by the very same lies that launched it. Sustained, indeed, to the point we now propose the sale of $100 billion in arms to the same Saudi’s that attacked us on 9/11, with few if any objections thus far being raised about Saudi complicity in the events of that tragic day. WTF is that all about?
As damn well it should, mindless adherence to that bankrupt big lie will continue to plague the democratic party, and the country itself, as long as it continues to be told. Americans have long since wised up to the fact that 14 short years ago this country was betrayed in a matter of war and peace, and they are righteously insulted to be asked to pretend otherwise (as they have by both parties once war was unleashed). Up to election day last November, substantive criticism of Hillary’s judgement had been reflexively dismissed by her supporters as so much unjust carping. In fact, it struck to the very heart of why she was defeated by Trump last November. Her support of the Bush-Cheney war accounted at least as much in that terrible reckoning as any other reason she has yet to cite (and more than most of them). It can be fairly said that the tragedy of her defeat last November was a direct consequence of her tragic decision to support the 2003 plot to war. Her failure to acknowledge it, apparently even to herself, is itself an ongoing tragedy, albeit a personal one.. of sorts, anyway.
That noted, today’s democratic rank and file shouldn’t waste their time or breath fretting about either Clinton or Sanders. Neither one will ever be POTUS, which all things considered, is OK by me. And the democratic party, our country, and our planet certainly have got bigger fish to fry nowadays, don’t we?
Corner Stone
@No Drought No More: Oh, sorry. I just farted really loudly and woke myself. Were you saying something? No? Ok, then.
zzzzzzz
Haroldo
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): A lot of the discussion here has revolved around nut punching. The photo prompting my comment seemed apropos of nothing unless it was, in fact, a nut sandwich.
Mad as Hell
I’ve followed this blog for many years and never commented. But I really need to thank Betty for putting my fury into words. So, thank you for writing what you write. From the bottom of my heart.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Haroldo:
Your original joke was in response to the wrong comment, hence the confusion.
David Spikes
@Applejinx: GFY- perhaps you can tell us a woman you do trust-or have you just totally internalized the misogyny? I’m saying yes you have.
hugely
@Zelma: misandry
im sure someone else found it and this thread is deader than ZEGS eyes but whatevs I made an effort :)
Tehanu
@JGabriel:
Besides Nixon and Ronnie Rayguns? Grover Cleveland. Theodore Roosevelt. Thomas Fucking Jefferson.
I had to unfollow my sister-in-law on Fbk just this morning because she re-posted a really vicious post from some rightwing rag with a headline saying something like, ‘Hillary’s brutal attack on Trump shows how far she will go to corrupt American youth,” or something like that. You know what the “brutal attack” was? She compared him to Nixon. I really thought my sister-in-law, who I’ve always liked, had more sense.
And Betty: I love you! Thank you for this and all your other wonderful posts!!!!
Anya
Hey Betty, I am lete to this but if you ever decide to go on that “sisterhood cross-country nut-punching spree,” please count me in. I am with you on this outrage. None of these misogynistic douchebags are telling Bernie Sanders to STFU and take a studio full of seats. But anytime Hillary says something or Chelsea dares to tweet about something, they’re pretty quick to yell at them. I am sick of it. Their misogyny turned me from a Hillary sceptic to someone who is very protective of her.
Sis
@hovercraft: in 2008, Barack Obama faced the same obstacles that Sanders did and won, because he ran a better race.
Scotian
Didn’t get online this weekend until an hour ago or so, so really late to this post and thread, and before I read the comments needed to simply say this…
Heard, witnessed, seconded and AGREED!!!
When it is this obvious to a Canadian what happened, Americans, especially Americans who make (or as in this case learning how to make) a living claiming to understand their own politics as this “person” at the New Republic who can’t see it might want to take another look, because it is just that bloody OBVIOUS!
NR
Good post, Betty. I agree with most of it.
Unfortunately, the comments are every bit the predictable shitshow I thought they’d be.