Check out the front page at CNN:
Two thoughts: 1) Boo-fucking-hoo, and 2) Double-down! Amazing what passes for “analysis” these days.
This might all be hilarious if the bloated, disgruntled crapsack didn’t have the nuclear football at his fingertips. Oh well. We’re all suffering, so there’s some comfort in imagining Trump’s impotent rage against the unfairness of it all. Misery loves company.
In more pleasant news, check out this gorgeous zebra longwing butterfly I saw in my yard this weekend:
Our Rangoon Creeper vine is in bloom, and it attracts tons of butterflies.
Open thread!
MattF
The Saudis insisted on taking back that medal.
Cheryl Rofer
Here’s a brilliant piece of writing from Rebecca Solnit that echoes that CNN headline.
TenguPhule
How Republicans destroyed Internet Privacy
Like watching blood sausages being made.
rikyrah
Donald Trump’s farewell tour
The world has taken measure of the president and found a person not to be taken seriously. It’s the end of the American century.
While Trump was feted in the Middle East, he was treated with surprising indifference in Europe. For the first time since the Second World War, an American president stood among allies, not as a first among equals, but almost like an outsider—someone who had to be invited, but who no one really was going to take very seriously.
At one point, Trump used a commemorative address to instead complain that NATO allies were being unfair to “American taxpayers”. The other leaders standing nearby exchanged wry looks; a few even seemed to roll their eyes. By all accounts, there was no scramble to appease the president, no panic among delegations about how to “defuse” the American anger. No one really cared that much. Likewise, when the president refused to endorse the Paris Climate Agreement, or NATO’s policy of mutual defence, no one was willing to bend even a little to mollify the Americans. They shrugged.
Even a month ago, the reaction would have been entirely different. When Trump came to power there was universal agreement he had to be treated with kid gloves, he had to be taken seriously, otherwise who knows what chaos he would unleash. But now, no one seems especially worried. Rapidly, over the last few weeks, America’s rivals and allies stopped seeing the United States as the “indispensable nation” whose opinion mattered, whose approval was always necessary.
What changed? The world has a much better measure of the man now. They see him as inconsistent—even if you convinced him on Monday to support the Paris deal, he will quite likely repudiate it Tuesday morning in a tweet. He has also proven so ineffective in controlling the bureaucracy and even his own party, it is unlikely that a repudiation will change much any time soon.
And beneath all of that is Trump’s unprecedented ignorance—Merkel at one point was reduced to showing him a map of the former Soviet Union to explain Russian objectives in Eastern Europe. What is the point of trying to get his support on one issue or another when he has literally not even read the summary of the relevant briefing note?
Trump’s first world tour may well end up also being his farewell tour. Not because it will be his last, although with the accelerating pace of the Russian scandal that is not impossible. But rather because it marked the official end of the American century—when Air Force One took off and finally headed back to Washington, it left behind a new world where the United States no longer counts, where America has effectively abandoned the field to Europe, China, and Russia. Wheels up.
http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/donald-trumps-farewell-tour/
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
fucking jesus
Shell
Listening to Sean Spicer right now. Sounds like his answer to almost every question is “Shut up, thats why!”
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
fucking jesus
rikyrah
Russia investigation expands to include Donald Trump’s personal attorney
May 30, 2017, 12:04 PM ET
One of President Donald Trump’s closest confidants, his personal lawyer Michael Cohen, has now become a focus of the expanding congressional investigation into Russian efforts to influence the 2016 campaign.
Cohen confirmed to ABC News that House and Senate investigators have asked him “to provide information and testimony” about any contacts he had with people connected to the Russian government, but he said he has turned down the invitation.
“I declined the invitation to participate, as the request was poorly phrased, overly broad and not capable of being answered,” Cohen told ABC News in an email Tuesday.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russia-investigation-expands-include-donald-trumps-personal-attorney/story?id=47646601
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Cheryl Rofer:
Excellent essay, Cheryl. Thank you!
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
The rack and wheel could soon wring the truth out of him.
trollhattan
Thomas Ricks would like a word:: “General McMaster, Step Down—and Let Trump Be Trump” [caution: Politico link]
sharl
@Cheryl Rofer: The author is a different Rebecca – Solnit, not Traister – but both are good writers.
Off to read it…
schrodingers_cat
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Mother Russia is never wrong, it can only be wronged.
TenguPhule
Paging Adam Silverman. Incoming Debt Ceiling Crisis on Line Two.
Remember now, the prior deadline was October.
Three months early, W.A.S.F.
Mike in DC
Spicer drowning up there.
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
And let’s be clear — this is EXACTLY what Bannon wanted. It was his purpose from Day One. They want the US to be isolated and friendless, because it makes it easier for them to bring on their white supremacist paradise, or so they think.
Kay
Sometimes when I don’t know what to do I do nothing. Has Trump considered that? He could just leave us alone and golf a lot. We already have a tax scheme and a health care plan and foreign relations. Most people won’t even notice if he does absolutely nothing. If there’s some kind of crisis we’ll call him, not because we need him but because it’s a norm and we’ve already busted too many of those already. He can LITERALLY be a placeholder President, like Gerald Ford but dumber and more of an asshole.
This is a good plan. He should grab it. He’ll still get a library and a pension. I’m patient. I’d be happy to just wait for 3 years.
schrodingers_cat
I find most prestige media pundits to be more abominable than Rs. Their both-sides-do-it but Democrats are worse schtick is one of the reasons we are here today.
NotMax
Not so subtle dig at his penchant for KFC eats?
trollhattan
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
Wow. If I’d gone to Princeton I’d be asking for a refund.
pluky
@Cheryl Rofer: Oh my! Thanks for the tip. This is brilliant.
Cheryl Rofer
@sharl: Thanks. I’ve exercised my front-pager privilege to correct it in the original comment. They both are great.
Gin & Tonic
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Anyone who’s had the misfortune to read more than three words of Cohen’s over the course of his interminable career will be completely unsurprised by this.
hovercraft
The problem is that everywhere he turns, there are echos of the CNN headline. SAD!
My favorite is FARK.com’s tag on The Hill story about the president:
Sleep-deprived, angry, and revenge-seeking is no way to go through life, and yet Trump persists, this time going on another 3AM Twitter tirade. Today, his target was Germany and Merkel, saying they are “Very bad for U.S. This will change”
We do need to pay attention to what Yertle and ZEGS are doing though, the big stuff may be stalled, but they are still doing their best to destroy as many lives as they can.
GOP pushes new minimum sentencing laws
After months of debate over whether to curb mandatory minimum prison sentences, Republicans are now going in the opposite direction.
A new border security bill includes mandatory minimum sentences for certain immigrants who try to re-enter the country after they’ve already been deported and for people convicted of violent crimes against judges and police officers.
The Hill reviewed a draft copy of the legislation, which is still being hammered out by Sen. John Cornyn (Texas), the No. 2 Senate Republican, and House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Michael McCaul (R-Texas).
The legislation includes “Kate’s law,” a measure named for Kathryn Steinle, a 32-year-old woman killed in 2015 by a felon who had been deported but returned to the United States. The law effectively creates a three-strike rule. Immigrants with prior aggravated felony convictions or two prior convictions for illegal re-entry would get a mandatory 5-year sentence………….
Cornyn’s work on the new bill appears to represent another shift given his past work on the Sentencing Reform and Corrections Act. That legislation, which Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) spearheaded alongside Lee and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), called for reducing mandatory minimums for certain drug crimes.
Cornyn was one of the first 15 original co-sponsors of that legislation, which never made it to the floor for a vote.
“First Attorney General Sessions sends out a directive asking for U.S. attorneys to prosecute to higher levels, which is contradictory to what our bill hoped to achieve, and then this bill by Sen. Cornyn,” Durbin said.
“I don’t understand his position.”
His position is easy enough to understand, Beavis and Butthead want to lock up as many black and brown people for as long as possible in private prison, it’s really not that complicated.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
And let GOP Congress just do what they want?
LAO
@Cheryl Rofer: Try not to be corrupted by your “front-pager privilege.” Article was excellent. Thanks for the link.
The Thin Black Duke
@Mnemosyne: And what the fuck is Bannon gonna do when those checks from “Seinfeld” stop?
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
Even more so, it’s exactly what Putin wanted. The Russians have been trying to destroy NATO since it was founded, and now it looks as if they may finally succeed.
clay
@TenguPhule: From your link:
So much winning!
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: Not to be a conspiracy theorist but were Katrina and Steve, BS supporters in the primaries?
Keith P.
@NotMax: That was my thought…he’s not doubling down. Rather, he’s Doubling Down. As in, drowning his sorrows by inhaling a fried-chicken-wrapped bacon sandwich.
EDIT: On the butterfly pic, a few months back, I had a pair of giant leopard moths outside my door for about a week. They were striking in their beauty.
hovercraft
@TenguPhule:
How they not know it’s coming earlier than at first projected, I read about the “lower than expected revenues” a few weeks ago? I think it was the Treasury Sec who said it, and I think it was while testifying before congress, so how the hell was that not a hint to get on it? I swear these people are will figure out a way to destroy the country before they are done!
ETA: Wow was that just last week, holy shit it feels much longer, you’d think with shit flying it would speed up time, but it’s slowing it down!
Kay
Obama left the place all tidied up. Trump can just kick back. When we get a real President we’ll start Presidenting again. People are exhausted. They’ll appreciate some peace and quiet. Come back in 2020 rested and refreshed and ready to turn over a new leaf and make better hiring decisions. Like a sabbatical.
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: Since I never voluntarily read anything they write or publish, I have no idea.
rikyrah
Brian BeutlerVerified account @brianbeutler
Paul Ryan, who tried to get Clinton’s security clearance revoked, is suddenly indifferent to huge security breaches
https://newrepublic.com/article/142937/republicans-helping-trump-destroy-uss-global-credibility
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@schrodingers_cat: I believe so.
And while I think Wilmer at the very least needs his tin ears replaced, his reticence about Russian interference is at worst neglect; all his (infrequent) noises on the subject have been rather good.
Kay
@TenguPhule:
Oh, they won’t get anything done. They’re bad at …lawmaking.
LAO
Very interesting pro-transgender ruling in the 7th Circuit today. Link here.
Not a Posner opinion.
rikyrah
CNNVerified account @CNN
Leo Varadkar, a 38-year-old gay son of an Indian immigrant father is likely to become Ireland’s next prime minister http://cnn.it/2r7ghIg
JMG
Tax receipts are down because wealthy people quite logically seeking to move as much income and capital gains into 2018 as possible in anticipation of Republican tax cuts. So while the economy is doing OK if not great, the Republicans are being hoist on their own policies. If the debt ceiling turns into a fiasco, look for those same rich people to sell assets, thus driving up revenues. Weird, huh?
Kay
@rikyrah:
The national security posturing on Clinton always has the stench of BS. Like any of them cared about the stupid fucking email server.
Corner Stone
I think J Kush is in a lot of trouble.
rikyrah
John NivenVerified account @NivenJ1
Trump’s Twitter acc has suddenly gained 3 mil followers and has been blocking lots of people. New followers look like this…
germy
Usually when a man turns inward, some serious thinking follows.
I somehow doubt he’s the introspective type. More likely he’s quietly preparing to lash out at someone.
Kay
@rikyrah:
What I don’t get is Jake Tapper. America’s Top Cop on national security breaches seems to have misplaced his badge.
germy
@rikyrah:
So many of the new followers have names that are random strings of letters.
rikyrah
Mike Hayes
✔
@michaelhayes
BREAKING: Cleveland police officer who shot Tamir Rice FIRED from department
10:43 AM – 30 May 2017
clay
@rikyrah: I don’t speak Twitter… What does this mean?
Gelfling 545
@TenguPhule: it’s not like he’d do anything to make whatever they dream up better.
Citizen Alan
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
Stupefying. The whole time I was reading that, I literally could not help but imagine that ass wipe as the Martin Short corporate PR Flack from the 1980s SNL era. Profuse sweating, insane babbling, and constantly sucking on a cigarette like it was an oxygen mask.
rikyrah
FusionVerified account @Fusion
Trump may not stand up to Putin––but Macron will.
French President Emmanuel Macron slams Russian media for being lying propaganda machines:
NotMax
@germy
Bot-ulism.
rikyrah
Jack Smith IVVerified account @JackSmithIV
The rate of gun ownership among black women has reached nearly 4 times the rate of growth as white women.
Mnemosyne
@The Thin Black Duke:
I can’t find the story now, but apparently the whole claim that Bannon made his millions from “Seinfeld” was a lie. It was just straight payments from the Mercers that they tried to launder.
Immanentize
@rikyrah: I told y’all that Michael Cohen was going to end up like Bruce Cutler — John Gotti’s attorney. Whether he is in it deep or not, a very good prosecutor is clearly putting the screws to Cohen which will end up preventing him from representing Trump much longer. Bruce Cutler won three friggin federal jury trials for Gotti before the feds went after the lawyer and got him removed. Next trial without Cutler? Guilty.
schrodingers_cat
@Kay: The Russian collusion probe needs to look at Vichy Times too. The Grey Lady seems to be entangled in Putin’s tentacles.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
I welcome our new sassy overlords.
Peale
@TenguPhule: Revenues must have slowed to a halt. I remember that they military pension deposit/loan is a $60 billion monster. But that was supposed to be in October. Are people just saying “fuck it. Trump won’t come after us anyway, so let’s not bother to pay?”
germy
@Mnemosyne:
A reporter asked around Hollywood and nobody connected to the show had ever heard of him.
TenguPhule
@germy:
When Trump turns inwards, his anus faces outwards.
LAO
@Immanentize:
Not to step on your point but, there was jury tampering in all three of Gotti’s acquittals. (Cutler is the single most overrated attorney in NYC).
Also, how’s the spousal unit doing?
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Now imagine them without Trump sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
They already killed Internet privacy. Why give them more freedom to kill again?
NotMax
@rikyrah
To put an appropriate Russian cast on it, internyet.
rikyrah
Immigrants Keep an Iowa Meatpacking Town Alive and Growing
Waves of Asian, African and Latino newcomers have filled jobs at pork, egg and turkey plants where wages have fallen and work has grown more grueling.
MAY 29, 2017
STORM LAKE, Iowa — When Dan Smith first went to work at the pork processing plant in Storm Lake in 1980, pretty much the only way to nab that kind of union job was to have a father, an uncle or a brother already there. The pay, he recalled, was $16 an hour, with benefits — enough to own a home, a couple of cars, a camper and a boat, while your wife stayed home with the children.
“It was the best-paying job you could get, 100 percent, if you were unskilled,” said Mr. Smith, now 66, who followed his father through the plant gates.
After nearly four decades at the plant, most of them as a forklift driver, Mr. Smith is retiring this month.
The union is long gone, and so are most of the white faces of men who once labored in the broiling heat of the killing floor and the icy chill of the production lines. What hasn’t changed much is Mr. Smith’s hourly wage, which is still about $16 an hour, the same as when he started 37 years ago. Had his wages kept up with inflation, he would be earning about $47 an hour.
The forces that have helped transform this snug lakeside town in northwestern Iowa and others like it during Mr. Smith’s working life have created a complex swirl of economic successes and hardships, optimism and unease.
Fierce global competition, agricultural automation and plant closures have left many rural towns struggling for survival. In areas stripped of the farm and union jobs that paid middle-class wages and tempted the next generation to stay put and raise a family, young people are more likely to move on to college or urban centers like Des Moines. Left behind are an aging population, abandoned storefronts and shrinking economic prospects.
Yet Storm Lake, hustled along by the relentless drive of manufacturers to cut labor costs and by the town’s grit to survive, is still growing. However clumsily at times, this four-square-mile patch has absorbed successive waves of immigrants and refugees — from Asia, from Mexico and Central America, and from Africa.
They fill most of the grueling, low-paid jobs at the pork, egg and turkey plants; they spend money at local shops, and open restaurants and grocery stores; they fill church pews and home-team benches. While more than 88 percent of the state’s population is non-Hispanic white, less than half of Storm Lake’s is. Walk through the halls of the public schools and you can hear as many as 18 languages.
more here:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/29/business/economy/storm-lake-iowa-immigrant-workers.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0
trollhattan
@TenguPhule:
Last night’s Veep had Rep Jonah Ryan–sporting a version of Paul Ryan’s Eddy Munster hair–and his Jeffersons Caucus shutting down the government by voting against the debt ceiling rise. He wants freedom from government meddling in peoples time-keeping devices (i.e., DST). It’s so fvcking spot on it’s hard to believe they wrote it a year ago.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
Even for snark its not funny. Step up your game, Kay.
Spanky
@Kay: Garrison Keillor’s op-ed in the WaPo offers one possible way for him to do just that:
Except for the Congress part. That still needs some work.
rikyrah
Jason WilsonVerified account @jason_a_w
Portland’s top Republican told me he’s considering using militia groups as security for GOP events. #portlandattack
scav
When smallpox lesions turned inward, they could cause haemorrhaging through mucus membranes: imagine what smallhand’s poxy lesions will do when turned so.
TenguPhule
@hovercraft:
It has sped up. The timetable had been moved up to September, which was of concern because of Congress lazy ass August recess.
But July, Holyfuckballs is much much sooner then expected.
germy
rikyrah
Trump leakers could prove elusive targets
05/30/17 06:00 AM EDT
In President Trump’s White House, not even private conversations in the Oval Office stay secret for long.
A day after firing FBI Director James Comey, Trump met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in the Oval Office.
Three of Trump’s most trusted advisers were present — Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, national security adviser H.R. McMaster and deputy national security adviser Dina Powell. Other than a photographer from a government-run Russian news agency, there was no media in the room.
And yet out of that small group, damaging and highly specific details attributed to U.S. government officials spilled on to the pages of The Washington Post and The New York Times.
[…]
At each step, the potential grows for confidential information to “jump the gap” into the press through leaks — a phenomenon that has exploded since Trump came into office.
“Dealing with leaks isn’t new, but the frequency and magnitude of the leaks affecting this administration is highly unusual,” said Dov Zakheim, the former undersecretary of Defense for former President George W. Bush. “He’s at odds with the intelligence community, the FBI and the media. That’s a lethal combination when it comes to leaks.”
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/335363-trump-leakers-could-prove-elusive-targets
low-tech cyclist
@rikyrah:
I keep saying it’s time for the Dems to brag about being better than the GOP on every issue there is.
Remember the days of the “Mommy Party” (Dems) and the “Daddy Party” (GOP)? Sexist notion, of course, but the GOP hasn’t been the Daddy Party in years, and Trump only drives the point home.
Budget balancing? The Dems have been the more fiscally responsible party since 1978, the year the GOP got tax cut fever.
National security? Al Qaeda flew planes into the WTC on Shrub’s watch, Shrub got us into an unrelated, unnecessary, and disastrous war in Iraq, and put Heckuva Job Brownie in charge of FEMA. Osama sleeps with the fishes on account of Obama. And now we have Trump repeatedly spills other countries’ sensitive intel.
Foreign policy? Trump’s working hard to blow up NATO, while kissing up to the Russians who want to undermine our democracy. And the GOP hardly utters a peep.
We Dems are the best party every which way, and we should be loud and proud about that at every opportunity.
Roger Moore
@JMG:
I would also guess they’re going to be more inclined to cheat on their taxes in anticipation of the IRS’s enforcement budget being slashed.
Booger
Since this is an open thread, I will be at U.C. Davis for a few days in June. What are must-sees for someone with little free time and on foot or public transportation? The Pepper Spray Museum?
Immanentize
@TenguPhule: Me too. The quickest way to gun control laws is to get some black people together with guns on the steps of a capital….
TenguPhule
@Peale:
That or Trump just stole a fuckton of money from the government accounts.
Last projection was that the deadline was coming up a MONTH early.
Now its Three months early.
Our nation might not live to see Christmas.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
Heaps of nostalgia reading that, as my grams lived out her days in a town a few miles from Storm Lake. What’s happened to the area is the result of industrial agriculture and the desires of Tyson, Monsanto, AGM and WalMart. They own Steve King and while he’s free to keep his ridiculous yap open he’s not touching a single stitch of his corporate masters’ cloaks without their permission. We know who’s boss, and it’s not Steve King.
Immanentize
@LAO: I didn’t say they were fair trials, just that Cutler won….
Spouse is OK — we got some great news (chemo is working) and some bad news (more cancer involvement than originally reported.) But the chemo is making things get smaller, which is a huge pain reliever as well.
TenguPhule
@Immanentize: Keep fighting and best wishes.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
Imagine them without trump there to divert everyone’s attention from what they’re doing. If you think constituents have been noisy up to now, imagine the noise Congress would hear if people weren’t distracted by the shit show at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue.
Turgidson
This is almost as brilliant as Chris Cillizza’s penetrating insight that Gianforte might have made a mistake when he assaulted a reporter on election eve. I wonder if he made it through that article without bringing up the EMAILZ.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
Which is why the GOP have taken extra care to ignore or escape them at every opportunity.
GregB
I believe the appropriate tabloid headline for this story by Gloria Borger is:
Double-Chin, Double-Down.
Immanentize
@TenguPhule: Thank you. It is a weird road indeed….
skerry
White House statement released today in response to a Washington Post report on Trump’s tendency of attacking his own staff with insults
LAO
@Immanentize: Keep on keeping on. My fingers and toes remain (metaphorically crossed) for continued good news and no more bad news.
Spanky
@Immanentize: This is awesome news. Continued God Luck!
LAO
@skerry: The mere fact that the White House feels the need to respond to every leak or negative story is proof of the validity of those stories.
NotMax
@skerry
Would decline to arm wrestle her.
Shoveling that much sh*t builds up some hefty biceps.
Spanky
@skerry: I think they plagiarized a L’il Kim press release. (The NK L’il Kim, that is.)
eclare
@Immanentize: Yes, glad for all good news.
TenguPhule
The road to Hell is paved with Texas Republicans
sigh.
TenguPhule
What the hell, Texas?!
Trump has enabled the idiots to come out into the open.
debbie
@Kay:
It’ll never happen, Kay. He’s a man of action!
p.a.
Hey Donnie have another donut!
( May 6, 1988, Devils coach Jim Schoenfeld was pissed about Koharski’s officiating during Game 3 of the conference finals, and after the final horn, hurried to the tunnel to confront him. Schoenfeld touched Koharski, Koharski fell, the two argued, and Schoenfeld unleashed the words that would live on in hockey lore:
“You fell, you fat pig! Have another doughnut! Have another doughnut!”)
debbie
@rikyrah:
Only because he lied on his job app.
Jeffro
“has gained weight”?!?
Ouch to the El Oh El
hovercraft
@Turgidson: @GregB:
Our villagers are trying to outdo each other with the stupid.
GOPOLITICO:
Six things to watch as Trump faces his new reality
Trump is back in the U.S. and back on Twitter — how will he cope with the spreading crises engulfing his presidency?
By Matthew Nussbaum
05/30/2017
* Will Trump address the controversies around Kushner?
No! Unless you cal FAKE NEWS! a response
* Will that long-rumored staff shakeup finally happen?
Who cares, it won’t make a difference unless he quits.
* What about that Paris climate deal?
Is Obama more popular and rubbing it in his face? If so he pulls out, duh!
* What happens on health care now that Trump called for ‘more’ spending?
Depends on the time of day, who he’s talking to, again it doesn’t matter because he’ll deny whatever he said two minutes later.
* Will Europe’s Trump-bashing continue? And will Trump hit back?
Yes and yes.
* Will the White House be able to change the narrative — this week, or ever?
No!
dmsilev
@skerry: “Donald Trump is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”
Mary G
@Immanentize: Glad to hear about the pain relief. That’s huge. Sending you both my best wishes with hopes of more progress in your battle.
hovercraft
@Jeffro:
He did not gain weight, he just shrunk back to his real height! Fake media making up stories, paging Dr Strangelove who will attest to his being the healthiest person who ever lived.
hovercraft
@Immanentize:
Glad to hear the good news, may the news continue to be good.
randy khan
@Mike in DC:
So, just a regular day for him?
rikyrah
Trump Plans to Dismantle Civil Rights Efforts in Agencies
May 29, 2017
The Trump administration is planning to disband the Labor Department division that has policed discrimination among federal contractors for four decades, according to the White House’s newly proposed budget, part of wider efforts to rein in government programs that promote civil rights, the Washington Post reports.
The proposal to dismantle the compliance office comes at a time when the Trump administration is reducing the role of the federal government in fighting discrimination and protecting minorities by cutting budgets, dissolving programs and appointing officials unsympathetic to previous practices.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-administration-plans-to-minimize-civil-rights-efforts-in-agencies/2017/05/29/922fc1b2-39a7-11e7-a058-ddbb23c75d82_story.html?utm_term=.73eb812cf142
hovercraft
Via GOPOLITICO
Does Spicey know that we unlike his boss can access the internet and TV our selves, we don’t have aides that just print out what won’t piss us off?
LurkerNoLonger
I like this headline because it doesn’t wimp-out by adding a question mark. Trump really is angry and alone.
gvg
@rikyrah: Hurray! what took them so long?
Jeffro
@hovercraft: The Villagers are welcome to turn all that energy and snark on the GOP congress, which has all the power it needs to solve this issue in short order. All the power, none of the will: why is that, Villagers?
Mebbe help explain to America who is pulling the strings here. Jane Mayer can’t do it all by herself.
Neither can Garry Kasparov
But YOU, proud Villagers, YOU could perhaps spread the word about our democracy’s enemies, both domestic and foreign. Why not give it a whirl?
sharl
@Cheryl Rofer: Solnit’s piece was an excellent read; thanks for the link!
I still want to go back and explore a few of her links, but at one point her article reminded me of an old Twilight Zone episode, “A Nice Place To Visit” – the plot is summarized at the top of this list (#10).
Well…a few clicks later, and damned if I didn’t learn that The Twitler himself is aware of that episode. But while I think most of us found it to be a precautionary tale – I certainly did – the Big Orange Greedhead found…inspiration.
Every time I think I cannot be surprised, he smashes through my Ceiling of Weary Cynicism.
? Martin
@TenguPhule: Not necessarily a bad outcome, in the long term. I mean, we did get this remarkble speech as a byproduct, after all.
Laura
@Booger: the Manetti Shrem Museum is new, on campus and free. What’s your dates and what’s your interests?
Jeffro
@hovercraft:
This is the thing, right? I’ve been telling people for years (and I think I stole the line from Garfield, my lasagna-scarfing spirit animal) – I’m not overweight, I’m under-tall. In some alternate universe, I’m 6′ 8″ and can see my toes!!
rikyrah
Donald Trump just threatened Germany over trade. Here’s what you need to know
May 30 at 8:49 AM
On Tuesday morning, President Trump wrote a tweet saying that the United States had a “MASSIVE trade deficit with Germany.” He further said that this was bad for the United States and (in what seemed to be a vague threat against Germany) said that this would change. This follows on Trump’s reported statement in a closed-door session with European officials a week ago that German trade policy was “bad, very bad.” What lies behind Trump’s complaints about Germany’s trade deficit? Here’s what you need to know.
Trump doesn’t understand Germany’s trade relationships
The Trump administration seems to have some basic misunderstandings of Germany’s economic policy. Trump’s trade adviser, Peter Navarro, seems to think that Germany wants a weak euro. In fact, German officials have spoken out consistently against the European Central Bank’s quantitative easing policy that is helping hold down the euro’s value.
More broadly, the president seems to think of trade in terms of bilateral relationships between pairs of countries that bargain with one another to strike a deal. However, trade relations are much more complex and harder to trace — policy changes in one country can lead to indirect ripple effects that are difficult to trace, but very important.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/05/30/donald-trump-just-threatened-germany-over-trade-heres-what-you-need-to-know/?utm_term=.0444506d47bf
Jeffro
(since this is an Open Thread): if anyone needs some good records to listen to, check out Dave Hause’s Bury Me In Philly and John Moreland’s Big Bad Luv
Good stuff!
debbie
@skerry:
Not one statement in your quote is true. Step up your game, Donnie!
TriassicSands
Eventually, he’s going to trip on his tie and break his miserable neck.
It couldn’t happen to a nastier guy.
hovercraft
@Jeffro:
I just want them to report honestly and stop giving morons who are absurd airtime! Is that too much to ask?
Jack Kingston: Nevermind Trump’s Trip Because The EU Is Librul! VIDEO at the link.
This morning on CNN, Alisyn Camerota asked Trump apologist and former GOP Congressman Jack Kingston about Trump’s apparent friendliness with the Saudis versus his coldness towards our longtime allies France and Germany.
What he should have said is, “Look, Angela Merkel isn’t going to invest in golf courses, now, is she?”
But what he did say was a bunch of garbage about how Trump is more comfortable with autocrats than our European allies because the European Union is “to the left of Bernie Sanders” and some of their leaders have criticized Trump.
“I don’t think it’s that chilly, but if you look at what the EU has become, it’s to the Left of Bernie Sanders….extremely liberal…said that Trump was a bigger disaster than China and Russia. That’s an irresponsible discussion for any great country that’s an ally.”
So you see, the Europeans forced Twitler to be an asshole by not genuflecting to him!
ETA: ” Jane Mayer can’t do it all by herself. Neither can Garry Kasparov”.
These books and the investigative pieces take real work and research, the villagers want the stories that involve talking to people they know, which requires “access”, and the stories about narrative, and optics.
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: Big, BIG Bernie boosters. The Nation overall was, but some did good journalism.
@Booger: Come to the Farmer’s Market! Wednesday has evening entertainment, but Saturday is good time. On campus we have museums and you can always touch base with me since I’m a townie. Should be number of events happening this month that you might like.
rikyrah
Kyle GriffinVerified account @kylegriffin1
NBC’s @RichardEngel breaks: Sr. US intel offical says German intel told US it does *not* need help safeguarding Germany’s upcoming election.
Barbara
@LAO: I was going to say, Cutler wasn’t so much a great lawyer as he was willing to engage in jury tampering. Not quite as bad as the guy in New Jersey who crossed over into the dark by more or less planning the hits on witnesses, but still not exactly the same as good lawyering.
germy
Anyone here confident the U.S. response will be calm and measured?
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@rikyrah: I voted the way I did fully expecting a woman to become leader of the free world. I just figured she’d be American.
Note to self: be more specific when wishing.
HeleninEire
@rikyrah: Yeah. How great would that be. Ireland has been a backwards nation forever. Over the past 15 – 20 years we have become one of the most progressive. And it is all because after all that oppression from England, in 1921 we got our freedom and let the Catholic church take over. They fucked it up so bad that all of this is backlash. Good backlash.
rikyrah
David CornVerified account @DavidCornDC
Heard in Mother Jones DC bureau: Sean Spicer “has lost all the light in his eyes.”
Barbara
@skerry: Okay, this reads as if she has been taken hostage by the SLA. “My captor is a brilliant man. He is very serious about the welfare of all people and he is not kidding that he will kill me if you don’t do exactly what he says.”
rikyrah
Keith BoykinVerified account @keithboykin
Sean Spicer starts White House press briefing with a long monologue on why Trump’s failed overseas trip was actually a huge success.
Elie
@Mnemosyne:
Totally agree… this was always what Bannon wanted. While others thought that he was on the outs, it is pretty clear he is running things — probably including putting Jared into the deep freeze. He is wrong however, about that making it easier to bring in his white supremacy nation. We won’t give up. However, there may be an extended period of civil unrest and violence….
We are in the deepest shit…We have never been in this place….We have to resist and not only call on Democrats and progressives, but ALL people of decency who want our country back. These partisan calls to one side or the other will not work and we are getting way past that point anymore.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
Here’s the article.
debbie
@Immanentize:
Glad there’s less pain. I hope this continues to improve.
rikyrah
Trump repeats criticism of Germany, Merkel stands by stance
May 30, 2017, 7:25 AM ET
President Donald Trump has renewed his criticism of Germany following Chancellor Angela Merkel’s suggestion that her country needs to adopt a more independent stance in world affairs.
Trump posted a tweet Tuesday saying “we have a MASSIVE trade deficit with Germany, plus they pay FAR LESS than they should on NATO & military. Very bad for U.S. This will change.”
Trump rattled some in Europe with his statements on NATO last week.
Merkel said Tuesday Germany’s relations with the United States are of “outstanding importance” but it must engage with other key nations going forward. She also suggested in the wake of the Trump visit that Europe’s relationship with Washington had shifted significantly and reiterated her position that “we in Europe have to take our fate into our own hands.”
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/trump-repeats-criticism-germany-merkel-stands-stance-47718579
Elie
@Immanentize:
Hang in there… I send good thoughts your way — and perseverance to both of you!
The Moar You Know
I see Orange Lardalade is back to tying his own ties. Jesus, the guy looks like he buys off the rack at Kmart.
rikyrah
Jon PassantinoVerified account @passantino
Merkel’s comments front page news here in Venice. Headline: “I do not trust Trump”
Jeffro
@hovercraft: That’s their defense for Trumpov being an abrasive, small-minded moron: the EU is “to the left of Bernie Sanders”? LOL
They’re never able to address their issues without pointing at someone else (and usually some made-up caricature of that someone, to boot) are they?
The Moar You Know
@Elie: I really hope not. People of the liberal persuasion won’t win that fight. We don’t do violence well.
Mnemosyne
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
Gosh, I wonder what it is that people in the “heartland” find so disturbing about a powerful woman and a Jewish man being the face of the Democrats.
Such a mystery.
Spanky
@rikyrah: Given that it’s Mother Jones, I’m imagining that to be the winning quote from the musings of a bunch of reporters sitting around after lunch, trying to come up with a money quote for Spicer’s pathetic performances.
Elie
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
This is all par for the course after a party has lost elections and is in minority status. I am less worried about Nancy, who can take care of herself, than the distraction this places on the heavy foundational work that Democrats need to do locally and at state levels. Remember also, whatever they want to do, they have to have an attractive enough message to get a following. There is no “takeover” without constituents for that change. Until we start winning some elections, all the sitting leaders will be under pressure IMO.
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
I hope they all wake up every day dreading what shit they have to eat each day. I hope they hate every miserable moment they are at work, and then spend the hours they are not there, dreading, counting down till the moment their phone rings because another bag of shit has been lit on fire.
rikyrah
I am addicted to this show:
https://youtu.be/Lz8mDEKT1lM
Jeffro
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: @Mnemosyne:
I trust “People’s House Project” founder Krystal Ball’s judgement 110%.
Ok, no I don’t, but it means she’ll be on TV more.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
Earlier today we were reading about 2 million voters purged in Ohio since 2011. Ya think it would make more sense for Krystal Ball to work on voter rights and voter registration?
I’m so sick of this nonsense.
Spanky
@The Moar You Know:
Some do, and generally we’re faster learners than the Trumpists.
Mnemosyne
@Elie:
Here’s the problem, though — a lot of the people you want to call on do not want to hear a message of equality for women and minorities. They just don’t, and it’s very easy for the right wing to get them to vote Republican just by pointing out that the two most powerful Democrats in Congress are a woman and a Jew.
We must have an honest conversation about equality in this country, because pretending that white supremacy doesn’t exist is killing us.
hovercraft
@Jeffro:
At this point they are just throwing shit on the wall hoping something will stick. So far nothing is changing the narrative that he fucked up our most important relationships.
Elie
@The Moar You Know:
You don’t have to be violent to overcome violence. You have to be smarter than your opposition. I am hoping also that I am exaggerating… Civil Rights in the US was marked by significant violence from oppositional whites — black people and their supporters were continually attacked and intimidated for years — but it didn’t work. The majority of the country did not support those who used violence as their main tool for dominance. I don’t see that they are different now… there is really no message per se beyond we want to dominate you…
ruemara
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Krystal Ball? Oh. Fuck her and everyone on this bullshit PAC. With a chansaw. We need help voting and she’s still trying to take over the party. Fuck her.
@MomSense: NAH. Otherwise, we’d have to admit white supremacy beats every economic equality every time.
realbtl
@Booger: Don’t know how much time you have in large chunks but CalTrain(?) runs into Old Sacramento an hour or so away regularly and it’s a good place to spend a few hours. You can also get into SF but we’re talking all day trip.
rikyrah
I am LMAO at Issa hiding out like a little bytchazz.
BWA HA HA HA HA HA H AH
Mike LevinVerified account @MikeLevinCA
Yes, this is really @DarrellIssa on the roof of his district office building. Too afraid to come speak with assembled constituents below.
ruemara
@Elie: We’re a little tired of paying for basic human rights with our blood. Like, real tired and arming ourselves in greater numbers. You may want to consider that. We’ve paid in full.
Thanks in advance, POC.
rikyrah
philip harris @pharris830
An Israeli TV Channel Just Revealed That Trump Shouted At Palestinian Leader When They met Last Week http://washingtonjournal.com/2017/05/30/trump-just-screamed-palestinian-leader-met-last-week/ … via @anteksiler
dmsilev
@Mnemosyne: Economic anxiety. I mean, duh.
Spanky
You know who we never hear about anymore? Godwin, and Godwin’s Law.
I wonder why that is?
Jeffro
Btw folks there already is – of course – a President Hatch parody account on Twitter (@orrin_hatch)
My favorite pair of tweets from the 46th president of these United States:
1) “So far not a single member of the Trump administration has been found to be secretly working for the United States” – Andy Horowitz
2) WH Staffer upon learning that Jared Kushner is under FBI investigation in the Russia probe: “Jared is so fucked” – Jon Cooper
Elie
@Mnemosyne:
I don’t disagree about the need for a conversation. I just don’t think that asking a white Trump supporter why they want to be superior is going to get us where we want to go. I do believe from my take on the polls (and hope, I guess), that most whites do not want the kind of white supremacy that the hard core want. Our message to them has to be listening for ways we can reach them rather than ways we separate ourselves farther. Frankly, I am talking a bit out of my hat, cause I am not sure how to frame this. In my gut, however, I donot believe that most people want to split this country further into warring camps and maybe that is where the first agreement can begin. We don’t have all worked out about what we hold, beyond we do not want to be at each other’s throats and we do affirmatively want a nation together…. Do you in your gut feel that most people do not want that?
dww44
@pluky: I just finished reading Solnit’s piece and echo the thanks to Cheryl for sharing the piece. Great piece of writing.
rikyrah
JOBoomr @JOBoomr
Pope Francis shakes up church with his cardinal choices, reflecting Catholic demographics
Jeffro
@hovercraft: it’s almost like people have reason not to believe him and his minions…weird, isn’t it?
I honestly expect that when all of the Russia connections and communications come out and can not be dismissed as #FakeNews anymore, Trumpov, J-Kush, and Flynn will say that they were playing the Russians for fools all along, as TRIPLE AGENTS!!1! And us libtards are just too dumb to see how they had the nation’s best interest at heart from Day 1. Nickel bet, folks!
tobie
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Crikey…Krystal Ball and Tim Ryan got everything they wanted in Rob Quist and he lost. MT was a winnable race but Quist’s brand of economic populism didn’t move any of the Republicans and Independents who voted for the Democratic governor in November to cast a ballot for him. About the only person in the mainstream media I see making this point is Joy Ann Reid.
Roger Moore
@rikyrah:
It was a huge success because he shares goals with Putin, not with NATO and the EU.
Booger
@Laura: 19th to 22nd, interests are wide open…just want to see what’s special to Davis.
Immanentize
@rikyrah: Hmmm Is that supposed to make Israelis like Trump more? Or something?
Hoodie
@Mnemosyne: I wonder if we’re not having that conversation now, but don’t realize it. I’m thinking specifically about what happened in California after prop 187. Went from xenophobia to total dem dominance in a relatively short time after the racism was laid bare. We need to get people to vote, irrespective of the obstacles. If trump is not enough of a consciousness raiser, I don’t know what will be.
Elie
@ruemara:
While I hear that, a bloody civil war will not bring any resolution and will destroy the country. I’m not suggesting that we lay down our arms a priori — just pointing out that bearing the cost of the violent approach will not give us what we want either. I would like to avoid that — not out of cowardice, but out of realistic assessment of what can be won with violence alone. Look around the world and through history… it eventually always comes down to needing the social infrastructure and humanistic values to repair and go forward.
Booger
@ruemara: Cool beans! I’ll check in as the date approaches.
Immanentize
@tobie: Well, economic populism as promoted by a candidate with a serious history of debts…
rikyrah
Malcolm NanceVerified account @MalcolmNance
Malcolm Nance Retweeted JΞSŦΞR ✪ ΔCŦUΔL³³º¹
Concur w/ @th3j35t3r Russian Cyber warfare support ramping up for @POTUS? Key intelligence indicator of impending major political activity.
Peale
@rikyrah: Yeah. Maybe. Just Maybe. Just Maybe Maybe, his voters will turn him out in 2018. Maybe that 10% which always seems to want to vote for Dems for Statewide and President, but who likes the idea of putting Issa in there because those Dems need a check on them – maybe those sophisticates will stay home. I mean, he jumped over bushes to avoid reporters in 2016 and those voters voted for Hillary and sent him back to Washington. But until he is gone, I’m assuming he has his seat for life. His voters apparently like cowards.
Elie
@tobie:
He was a weird candidate — breaking into song at campaign stops with this daughter and some other bad news about his background. We HAVE to select good candidates. This was not the time for an eccentric… BTW — overall turnout was less than 2016…
Booger
@realbtl: Yeah, I won’t know until I’m there, but Old Sacramento sounds cool. Thanks!
Jacel
@Booger: I was going to recommend a Czech restaurant in Davis called Little Prague, but looking up information reveals that it closed a few years ago. The Arboretum on campus is wonderful.
tobie
@Immanentize: You’re right. His financial history didn’t help any. That said, I still think someone in the mold of Bullock and Tester would have fared much better. It does matter that Bullock won in November when HRC lost the state by a significant margin. What made him appealing to voters of all stripes? That’s the question I would want to ask before recruiting candidates.
Mnemosyne
@Elie:
I agree that most people — including most white people — don’t want us to be in warring camps, but I think the media has convinced most of them that the reason we’re in warring camps is because of people of color, and if POCs would just sit down and shut up, we wouldn’t have any problems. That absolves them from having to look at any of their own beliefs and lets them scapegoat everyone who isn’t like them.
I know not everyone likes Malcolm Gladwell, but I heard a podcast of his this weekend that talked about a relatively new psychological concept called “moral licensing,” which basically allows people to make a single exception for a hated group and decide that they’re now free of prejudice, so they can continue to hate the overall group because, hey, I voted for Obama, so clearly I can’t be a racist anymore!
It’s the very first episode of his Revisionist History podcast called “The Lady Vanishes” and it ended up being very prescient about the 2016 election. A little depressing in hindsight, but worth a listen.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
And your gut is wrong. Badly wrong.
The divide can’t and won’t be bridged.
The GOP wants us all to submit or die.
We’re gonna take a third option.
tobie
@Elie:
We’re all on the same page on this, I think. The other thing we all agree on is making voting easier, which is proving to a real challenge. Anyone know what Kander’s organization, Let America Vote, is doing? It strikes me at the most important electoral issue for Dems moving forward.
Mnemosyne
@Peale:
He won by a ridiculously small margin this time, though — something like 3,000 votes. That’s why he’s running scared.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
Unconditional GOP surrender is the only acceptable term.
Anything less then that and we WILL wind up back here again.
Origuy
@Jacel: I was going to suggest the Little Prague as well. Shame it closed.
Oh, and it’s Amtrak, not Caltrain, that goes to Old Sac. Going the other way, it stops in the East Bay and you have to take BART the rest of the way. It’s two hours each way. Caltrain runs San Jose to SF.
Elie
@Mnemosyne:
We cant give in to ANY reason to allow civil war to happen. Somehow, we have to speak to what is left that is positive and brings us together. Explaining and referring to all the reasons we split apart — and there are many that could be used as pretext — just reinforces that direction. I don’t want to do that. Its like wanting to have a relationship with someone but only talking about the reason why it can’t work… you just can’t do that and end up in the relationship. You may, however, have a reason for its failure. I want to find ways to stay together and build from that. Not saying that anything you cite is incorrect or inaccurate — rather that psychologically, it sets us on a mistaken course…
Immanentize
@Mnemosyne:
That is a GREAT podcast. It made me really look at the painting, The Roll Call, in a new light.
SatanicPanic
@Peale: he barely won. the margin was like 1500 votes. These things don’t change overnight.
Mnemosyne
@Elie:
Right, but you can’t change someone else’s mind for them. You can present them with new information, you can give them the same information a new way, but if they refuse to listen, there’s not much anyone can do.
A lot of my fellow white people are not open to hearing the truth, and I’m not sure how to fix that.
ruemara
@Elie: Nobody* wants a civil war. So help POC vote.
*Nobody sane, but I am not kidding you that there are thousands in our country who are agitating for a real shooting war and quite willing to act on it. They’ve killed cops and they’re killing black people. They’re more and more disappointed that these actions aren’t creating the civil war. I don’t know how you avoid violent actions from them when they currently hold the elected power and only the rule of law is preventing the changes they want.
@tobie: They help people collect id required documents and pay fees while also legally challenging obstacles to voting. Same as VoteRiders. Now if Krystal Ball spent a gotdang dime on something like that, I wouldn’t consider her scum.
Origuy
Putin is trying to discourage protests by funding pop music videos telling young people to stop thinking about politics, like this one by Alisa Vox.
Elie
@TenguPhule:
Actually, the research on civil wars says that the bloodier they are, the less reason that there is to reconcile because there is so much suffering and loss of trust, that there is no way to come to agreement for a resolution. You must really stop thinking of violence as a fix for anything. And you always get to the point that the bullets won’t really bring you what you want… which must be resolved politically. So I hold that the opposite of what you say is true — if there is prolonged violence, we are sure to come back to the same place, or worse…
geg6
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap:
Oh yeah. Krystal Ball, that brilliant electoral genius! Never won anything but she knows what REAL AMERICANS want and it isn’t those pointy-headed coastal elites.
I hate to tell that dumb beyotch, but it’s not about Nancy Pelosi with the Appalachian men. It’s about a woman being in charge. So Krystal, you’re fucked, too.
ruemara
@Origuy: It is Amtrak and CalTrain. And Little Prague was awful. Felt like potatoes and doughy bread, then again, Czech food. Arboretum is nice right now but there’s a ton of green spaces in Davis worth checking out. I should know, I’ve walked them and taken the public records shots. We got nooks & crannies to poke your nose into, Booger.
Roger Moore
@tobie:
The message I take home is that it’s a mistake to nationalize every election. Of course, every candidate needs to agree with enough of the national platform that they are still Democrats, but they need to be able to speak to the specific issues important to their constituents, not try to hew to a one-size-fits-all national message. We can’t afford to place rigid ideological purity above winning.
ETA: This is as much about priorities as it is about policy. You don’t have to give up on Democratic ideals just because they’re not 100% popular in your area. If there are parts of the platform that are especially appealing to your voters, talk about them rather than the parts that are less popular.
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah:
Excellent analysis of The Brothers Karamazov!
Jeffro
Josh Marshall at TPM, noting recent reporting that Trumpov had stolen some other family’s coat of arms for his own, had a better, more appropriate one whipped up:
Carpe Omnia – love it!
geg6
@Elie:
You obviously don’t live where I do because most of the people around here would be happy to hang me from the closest available lamp post. I’m a woman, I’m a liberal, I’m educated, I’m an atheist. My being white and from the same working class they all came from and having known a lot of them for my entire 58 years doesn’t change the fact that I’m their enemy. I’ve written here before about not being able to go to places I used to (local pubs, etc.) because of the 2016 election. It hasn’t changed a bit over time. They hate me now.
TenguPhule
@Elie:
Sorry, a line is drawn when Democrats, liberals and people of color start being murdered.
If you still want to preach reconciliation at that point, you’re on your own.
Elie
@ruemara:
I totally agree with your description of reality and that many black people (sometimes including me), would feel just fine about asserting the need to fight back. I totally also agree about getting black people to vote. That said, the research on violent civil wars is interesting and very clear about the fact that it doesn’t work. I cite the interview and work, “Truth Politics and Power” from an interview of T.David Mason with Neal Conan. The context of the interview is Iraq, but Mason discusses his civil war research in general. VERY informative in my opinion —
So I hear you — and being black also don’t want to be steam rolled by some white mob. That said, I have to understand the limitations of violence in response.
https://www.truthpoliticsandpower.org/archive/2017/5/26/civil-war
(I added the actual link to make sure it works)
TenguPhule
@Elie:
Yes, violence isn’t going to solve anything. We’re still going to get it anyway.
Your ideals only work in a system where BOTH SIDES observe the same rules, codes of conduct and acknowledge that the other side has a right to exist.
We do not have that with Republicans. We are never going to have that with this generation of Republicans.
rikyrah
@clay:
folks say it’s the Russians.
Elie
@geg6:
Well I am very sorry to hear that and very sorry that we are all in this place. What do you think we do?
germy
TenguPhule
@Elie:
Well that depends on how you define, “work”.
Winners write the history.
ruemara
@Elie: I’m both agreeing and disagreeing. It’s less that we’re fomenting violence, it’s more that too many in charge right now are explicitly aiming to create a violent America to punish and subjugate POC, LGBTQIA even more. We don’t want civil war, but we’re not unarmed slaves with a history of being controlled and abused like animals. We do have an invasive parasite of white supremacy that has managed to even invade our LEO forces as well as our military. They’ve been pushing this for decades. We may not have a choice, if we don’t want a continual erosion of our rights and freedoms. Fighting back may not be optional. I say this as a person who is most likely to seek non-violent methods but my gut is telling me things will hit a level of horrorshow before you get Americans to stop backing nazis.
The Moar You Know
@ruemara: It’s so many more than that. 1% of the US population is three million people. I think at least half of that are ready to bust out the guns and go today. I think with a minimum of “state sponsored” urging, you could easily multiply that by a factor of ten.
Add in to that the existence of 350 million-plus firearms in this country, and you have a problem that laws aren’t going to solve.
No, I do not have a solution. I know how we got here, but that really doesn’t matter anymore, does it? It is what it is.
ruemara
@The Moar You Know: That Turner Diaries fanfic these assholes have been marinating in. They’ve all been preparing for the zombie apocalypse but most don’t understand who they think are the zombies.
Edited to reflect that: Dude, when I say thousands, I’m trying to be positive.
MisterForkbeard
@skerry: Gotta love how this is explicitly rejected by… basically everything. From his actual history to even his constructed reality-TV show, all of it demonstrates the exact opposite of what she’s talking about here.
It’s really embarrassing. If I was a republican I’d be wincing every time a new “Trump is historically amazing and a god among men” tongue bath happens.
LesGS
@Origuy: Based on the numbers of “dislikes” on that video, maybe Putin’s message isn’t getting through very well…
trollhattan
@Booger:
BikeShare is coming to Davis but not ’til fall, unfortunately. You may be able to rent one though, in which case you’ll be able to get anywhere in Davis, which is very bike-centric. School ends Jun 15 so depending on your schedule it could be a madhouse or ghost town. Check out the new art museum and maybe catch a show at the Mondavi Center, which has the area’s best accoustics.
Amtrack Capitol Corridor info page here Quite a few folks commute into Sac from Davis this way; Yolo Bus is another, cheaper way. Either puts you downtown Sac where you’re free to wander and connect to Sac RT light rail, if you like. Every kind of food imaginable and the last regional brewer tally was 72, although I sure couldn’t name them all.
SatanicPanic
@Elie: I second this. There are very few examples of people taking up arms against their own countrymen that don’t end up resulting in something worse. You get everyone out in the streets to protest and you win. Or you get your heads cracked and the survivors give up and life sucks. Either is preferable to civil war.
Roger Moore
@Mnemosyne:
I think we’re going to have to try to open one mind at a time. There’s really no other way of doing it.
MaryLou
@geg6: Krystal needs to watch Handmaid’s Tale. Key strategist of the coup now occupied arranging flowers.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
We’ll have to agree to disagree there.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know:
This, a thousand times this.
And it bears repeating.
This shit stew has no fast or easy exits from the body politic.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: OK, show me some examples of where civil war had a positive outcome. And please keep in mind that we probably can’t count on international intervention, for obvious reasons.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: Wow. Macleans isn’t even a leftwing magazine. Its publisher and several writers are rightwing Canadians. Trump is a disgrace to conservatives everywhere.
jl
@Roger Moore:
I don’t understand the obsession with the white reactionary extremists, at least electorally. I do understand it in terms of the violent and undemocratic damage they can do locally. But Clinton won the popular vote by over 3 million votes. Trump is where he is now because of less than 100 K disgruntled white people in 3 rust belt states. And I believe Donna Brazile more or less apologized for letting that happen.
So, we push on and be willing to have dialogue with the salvageable Trumpsters as they get tired of the BS and fail and malicious incompetence of the Trump administration and the GOP Housers.
The Democrats present a platform that addresses the legit and specific concerns of the vast majority of the population, of all races, ethnicities and religions, middle, working class and poor. That increases turnout that the GOP cannot suppress its way out of.
If Clinton was right that half of the Trumpster voters are salvageable, and half of them can be salvaged (edit: or more accurately, have the presence of mind to salvage themselves after hearing a good political message), that will be a lot more folks on our side next two elections.
Patricia Kayden
@germy: So it was pulling a “both sides do it” pulling of its advertisements. Interesting because there is no evidence that Rachel Maddow or Jake Tapper deserved to be penalized. Hannity’s decision to lie about Seth Rich’s murder, on the other hand, is a perfect reason to pull one’s ads.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic: Our first one comes to mind. Granted, we got it wrong by not making sure the Southern assholes stayed down after we won.
Japan’s too, though that was a bloodfest of a clusterfuck between multiple parties trying to actually unite the entire country. I’d really prefer we avoid something like that. But I’d still choose it in a heartbeat over continued Republican domination by thuggery.
eclare
@geg6: Agree with you, and we’re the same demographic. As long as I stay in my nice blue city oasis, I’m fine. If I drive 25 miles in any direction, it is a whole different, unfriendly world.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: yeah except for that part about us being the confederates and conservatives being the union this time, sure, sounds great.
jl
Also, I think Trump is looking more like Alec Baldwin every day.
Gex
@ruemara: Agree with this.
Elie
@TenguPhule:
Yeah, but not for a long long time and not without a lot of destruction. If you are ok with that, then that’s that for you. However, I like my life and liked many aspects of living in this country with all its warts and imperfections. You toss it up to the uncertainty of civil war without hesitation but I am more wary and unclear that the results will balance the sacrifice and what was lost. But hey, the Jacobins always thought they were right. If you have a minute, however, listen to the interview of T. David Mason that I reference above … pretty interesting.
The Thin Black Duke
Remember how the FBI used to infiltrate certain political groups (for example, the Black Panthers) and these rogue agents would incite them to commit an act of violence that would get almost everybody in that targeted group arrested? Just saying.
Baud
@The Thin Black Duke: Best theory of TenguPhule I’ve heard yet.
TriassicSands
@Roger Moore:
I didn’t hear Spicer, but surely he emphasized that Trump spared no effort in insulting our former allies, taking special care to single out Germany.
It was sad but good to see Merkel publicly acknowledging that no one can rely on Trump. By the time Trump is finished, if he has his way, we’ll be isolated with all the authoritarian regimes as our new allies and the world’s democracies as our enemies.
Trump’s trip to Europe was successful in one way — it succeeded in making me despise him more than ever.
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
Katrina vanden Heuvel’s husband? I hope she’s either considering divorce or has him seeing doctors specializing in dementia or diseases of the brain. He sounds like he’s losing it. Apparently, it hasn’t occurred to him that the outcome of a Putin-Trump alliance is overwhelmingly more likely to be bad than good.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@hovercraft:
Couldn’t have said it better!
TenguPhule
@Elie:
As I keep telling you, there is no choice involved.
It doesn’t matter what you want. What matters is what you, me and everyone else is going to get irregardless of what we want.
Civil disorder is the best outcome we can hope for at this point. The reality is probably going to be bloodier, messier and tragically worse then that.
Our system has broken to the point of no return. We’re not getting it back any time soon.
Remember, two sides dealing in good faith.
WE. DO. NOT. HAVE. THAT. HERE.
Patricia Kayden
@jl: That’s a huge insult to Alex Baldwin.
TenguPhule
@Baud: And you would still be hopelessly wrong.
Perhaps if you had the same nightmares every night, you’d understand.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: Cohen can refuse to participate in the House and Senate kangaroo investigations but he can’t pull that mess with Mueller.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: You and me both. In every comment section he arrives he changes the tenor of the discussion.
Baud
@TenguPhule: Whatever, G-Man
West of the Rockies (been a while)
@Roger Moore:
Yep, pretty much the way every human mind us opened: one at a time.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@TriassicSands: vanden Heuvel’s views on Russia are AFAICT about the same bent as her husband’s (and in fact is why he still has a column in The Nation — she’s its editor), so I wouldn’t bet on a divorce. And Cohen’s defenses of Putin have been at least disreputable since around 2006 — if you’re feeling particularly generous, he fully discredited himself after the Ukraine invasion at the latest.
chopper
@Baud:
let’s you and him fight! i’ll hold your coat.
Ladyraxterinok
@TenguPhule: Not very knowlegeable about English history. But didn’t Roundheads vs Cavaliers eventually cause major positive changes in English society? Or have I just picked up some misleading bits and pieces?
The Thin Black Duke
@schrodingers_cat: And this is what’s going to happen when the shit goes down. And our fearless keyboard revolutionary will be gone.
jl
@chopper: If I’m going to go to my doom, why not do it ‘Beered Up With Baud’?@Patricia Kayden: Sorry, I meant Alec Baldwin’s impersonation of Trump.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I think Goku with his penchant for similar violent imagery is Junior G Man. Either that or another DougJ sock puppet. He does not sound like any 20 year old I know.
TenguPhule
@Baud: If I thought for a moment that erasing Trump and Pence would have a chance of stopping this approaching disaster, I’d openly advocate it without a doubt.
But its too late. They’re just the obvious symptom of the rot. Its systematic.
Two sides dealing in good faith. We don’t have that anymore.
And without that, all the checks and balances in the world don’t work.
Mnemosyne
@Ladyraxterinok:
“Eventually,” in the sense that Oliver Cromwell died and didn’t have a good successor, so Parliament decided to invite Charles II back to the throne as long as he behaved himself. Not exactly an ideal solution, or one that would be available to us.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
Goku is writing a post-apocalyptic novel and sometimes goads TenguPhule on to get more ideas. It’s not very nice of him.
Roger Moore
@jl:
I was thinking more about the fellow travelers than the hard core white reactionary extremists. I don’t think we’re going to change many minds among the deplorables, and I agree that we don’t have to. But we have to figure out a way of opening the minds of their fellow travelers and convince them that voting with the deplorables makes them just as bad as the deplorables are.
TenguPhule
@The Thin Black Duke: I’m sure in your last incarnation, “Let them bring the horse in!” was your famous last words.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: I haven’t noticed that with him.
@TenguPhule: IMHO, part of the reason we’re in this mess is because our side indulges in too many political fantasies, to the detriment of useful actions.
TenguPhule
@Ladyraxterinok:
Only when considered through the long lens of history.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: The whole persona is too precious. Its an older person pretending to be a younger person. As always I suspect DougJ.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: We try to be too clever, while the so called stupid people eat our lunch every election.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Tell me of any legal action that isn’t nullified by a GOP: “We’ve packed the courts. Who’s gonna stop us now? Fuck you, we win.”
ETA: I can wait.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: You realize that Mnemosyne is DougJ, right?
Baud
@TenguPhule: That’s not responsive to my comment.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Agree.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Mnem is as real as you or me. Everyone else is DougJ!
TenguPhule
@Baud: That’s not an answer.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
@Immanentize: Keeping you and your wife in my thoughts, and hoping for more good news.
Baud
@TenguPhule: It seems we are at an impasse.
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: I most certainly am not!
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I suggest a duel, but with verbal sparring.
Felonius Monk
There are rumors that Tom Brady has already deflated said “football”.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule:
But you just said
SgrAstar
@TenguPhule: Winners may “write the history”, but so what? The written history in no way supplants the personal experience passed down from generation to generation…which amplifies and hardens the hatred that fueled the original flames. Can anyone really argue that the North won the Civil War? We are living the consequences of that debacle every day. Those of us who have Confederate ancestry understand this perfectly. Not arguing that the CW shouldn’t have been fought, just thinking about the predictable disaster of Reconstruction and the aftermath. CW should be avoided at all costs…I’m with Elie.
TenguPhule
@Baud: Which is why I’m fine with agreeing to disagree.
It’s when you get personal that I get touchy.
I don’t disagree that all the peaceful, legal means of action have to be tried to stop Trump and the GOP.
I just don’t think its going to stop them.
The American system wasn’t designed for the level of non-compliance we’re seeing from the Republican leaders and their base. None of us in our lifetimes has ever seen anything like this.
I just don’t want people to die on our side who might survive if they’re aware of just how dangerous things have become.
Morzer
@schrodingers_cat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goku
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic: We don’t have a choice about the situation. We will have a choice in reaction.
TenguPhule
@SgrAstar:
Which is why the Native Americans are a hotbed of insurgency today….Oh wait.
ETA: I apologize if I come off as too sarcastic. I could probably have used other references, but I figured that would start a whole new can of worms.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: You just said that we don’t have a choice!
I want to not have a civil war. Is this possible or not?
SatanicPanic
@SgrAstar: “Winners write the history” isn’t true today, and for major powers hasn’t been for hundreds of years. We have too many outlets for that to be the case.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
We don’t have a choice in the disaster that’s coming. At this point its baked in. Civil Disorder at best, because the institutional damage is too severe. We can’t operate as a civil society when one side simply refuses to follow any of the rules when it suits them.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
I think DougJ has been pretty open about being a white guy in his 50s who’s hanging onto his hipster persona.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: yeah we can. We’ll just have to be unhappy. Happens all the time. Most of the nations in the world operate this way.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
Most of the nations that operate that way break down into coups, civil war and bloody kleptocracys at the drop of a hat.
ruemara
@SatanicPanic: Dude or ma’am. I’m scared to be here and I know we’re not as far down the path as we could be. Your “unhappy” is another person’s dangerous.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: look man, I get it. You WANT there to be a civil war. Just start with that. because you’re being silly.
These are all different degrees of problematic. Civil war being the worst, with coups being relatively painless for the average citizen and they’re not even equally likely. If the choice is- Civil war now, or maybe civil war later, the smart choice is the latter. All the others are infinitely preferable to civil war.
SatanicPanic
@ruemara: Absolutely. Probably will result in lots of death and terror for a lot of people. But civil war is almost certainly worse.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
I’m sure they are, when you’re not the one who finds themselves under the regime.
You can call it silly, but if you refuse to recognize that civil society does not work unless both sides follow the rules, you are just sticking your head in the sand. (And yes, I am being polite here)
Llelldorin
@ruemara:
Technically it isn’t Caltrain; the Capitol Corridor trains are Amtrak trains funded separately by the Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority, which is a join project of eight interested counties. The trains are branded “Amtrak California” and use (mostly) their own rolling stock instead of the usual Amtrak cars (http://www.capitolcorridor.org/ccjpa-service/; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amtrak_California)
Caltrain is a similar but separate service that runs its own trains with no Amtrak involvement along the peninsula from San Jose to San Francisco (http://www.caltrain.com).
(I was a postdoc at Davis and spent a _lot_ of time on those trains, given that I live in Hayward.)
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: He also admitted to being Bess, the uber middle of the roader with 3 masters and two PhDs, or something similar.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: It “works” on a level about average on our planet- most people go about their business, they just can’t take part in the political process. I’m not saying it doesn’t suck, but if the alternative is civil war, it’s what people will choose.
ETA- and rightly so, it’s the better choice
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
I’m not surprised — “she” was a particularly dim commenter with really dumb arguments.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
Not sure if you’ve factored in where that oppression took place on people who had no history of being able to vote. Its one thing to not be able to take part when you never did. Its another horse entirely when you did, then get it taken away. That almost inevitably results in revolution or severe repression. More often both at the same time.
? ?? Goku ? ?
@schrodingers_cat: I really am 21. I just tend to be an intense and serious person on occasion. Just apart of my personality. Sorry if I’ve ever said anything to upset you. I vent sometimes
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku ? ?: You don’t need to apologize for being an asshole every now and then. I’ve done it and Baud and cat are just as guilty at times.
schrodingers_cat
@? ?? Goku ? ?: No apologies needed. I should be the one to apologize for calling you a sock puppet.
? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?
@schrodingers_cat: No problem. Had to steal “Junior G-Man” to be apart of my nym. That was awesome btw
schrodingers_cat
@? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?: Sockpuppet or not, you have a science of humor!
schrodingers_cat
@schrodingers_cat: *sense not science. I blame auto-correct.
Ian
@TenguPhule:
So says the so called master in ‘snark’. Your ‘snark’ game is the worst here, unless you actually believe half the shit you write here,
Ian
@LAO:
For a while, I thought you were a lawyer.
If someone hires a defence attorney or issues a denial, are they guilty? By the logic you use, they most certainly are.