The public editor thought the public should do her job, so now it belongs to the public https://t.co/s0TWMnEui4
— Tom Scocca (@tomscocca) June 1, 2017
If the public is the public editor now then we order you to fire David Brooks
— Hamilton Nolan (@hamiltonnolan) May 31, 2017
For your morning enjoyment, a most excellent rant from Tom Scocca:
The public editorship of the New York Times was always a fictitious job. That essential truth was made clear on Wednesday morning, when the paper’s publisher, Arthur O. Sulzberger Jr., announced that he would be terminating the position, less than a year into the term of its sixth and final occupant, Liz Spayd.
Spayd’s columns were widely mocked and despised, especially by other people in the media. Still, she was probably not the worst public editor the Times ever had. She produced only one valuable column, in an otherwise unbroken string of dumb and wrong ones, but that was one more than readers ever got from Byron Calame or Arthur Brisbane or that other guy, whoever he was. Clark Hoyt?
The majority of the public editors were bad because the public editor’s job was designed to be badly done. It was created after the Jayson Blair scandal and the collapse of Howell Raines’ executive editorship, as a means of showing that the Times was serious about managing the institutional damage. The first public editor, Daniel Okrent, was sharp and rigorous, befitting a newspaper that saw its mission as a sacred trust and had obvious lessons to learn from its failures. Once the crisis had passed, though, Sulzberger seemed to approach the routine duty of holding his paper accountable the same way a surly 12-year-old approaches the task of mowing the lawn—if he could do it badly enough, maybe people would decide he shouldn’t have been made to do it at all.
So the work of minding the Times fell to a series of timid people, dull-witted ones and bores. Only the fifth public editor, Margaret Sullivan, broke with that pattern and did her job energetically enough that she ended up being hired as a real media columnist, at the Washington Post…
And I suspect Ms. Sullivan is now celebrating her escape!
Apart from schadenfreude, what’s on the agenda as we wrap up another busy week?
Balconesfault
Dan Okrent is also well known as one of the founders of Rotisserie Baseball (the format most commonly by fantasy baseball leagues).
rikyrah
Good Morning,Everyone???
Aimai
Actually I remember hating Dan Okrent by the end of his tenure, although I can’t remember why now.
satby
@rikyrah: Good morning! Coffee ☕ time!
Still have some plants to get into the ground, and shrubs and peonies arriving probably today, making me consider playing hookey from the farmers market. But I probably won’t. I have to get them to put me in a different section though, yesterday I had to listen to the guy next to me obnoxiously hawk his “new Christian clothing line” and “daily devotional planners”.
I cycled between suicidal and homicidal, though he was a nice enough guy when he wasn’t trying to monetize his religious beliefs.
I was all ready to tell him I was a believer in Mathew 6:5-6, but he never asked and probably never would have got it anyway.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Dan Okrent was a sick joke.
He always covered for Judith Miller’s lies which cost hundred of thousands of lives.
Quinerly
Excellent interview of John Kerry on “Morning Edition.” I don’t recall ever hearing him this angry. In fact, so far most of the show has been devoted to the Paris Accords and Trump’s withdrawal.
PaulWartenberg
IT
IS
NATIONAL
DONUT
DAY
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire)
@rikyrah: @satby: Good morning! Enjoying my first cup o’Joe!
Hitting the regression modeling hard today (after having to cull many observations from my data set- boo…but completely necessary), doing the laundry, entertaining the kidlet as she is now on her first summer break (maybe working on her bike riding skills), sending the husband off to work, and going to the dermatologist for my annual check. May my day be productive, and may your day be productive, too!
And still, Fuck The Fucking NY Times. Her days of greatness are GONE.
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
Baud
The NYT is still garbage, even it is now a little less smelly.
Kay
Guffaw. Not the “United States” but the bunch of oddballs and misfits in the Trump Administration.
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire)
@satby: Christian clothing line? So no mixed fibers, I assume.
Quinerly
Great interview with Sir Richard Branson on “Morning Edition.”
germy
@Quinerly:
He was on the CBS Evening News No Longer With Scott Pelley…
and I was actually surprised at the amount of time they allowed him to talk. He covered just about everything that was wrong with the decision.
That morning my local sinclare TV station mentioned briefly that the president had opted out of a “rigid” (their adjective) agreement.
There is a person at my local sinclare station whose only job is to add little negative adjectives to things. Sometimes they are subtle, sometimes not, and sometimes they simply don’t report things if there’s no way to spin their viewpoint.
I wanted to call their news tip line to tell them the Boris guy their owners hired as a political analyst is a person of interest, but I’m sure they’d just laugh at me.
Keith P.
Wow, JoeScar seems pretty certain that Steve Bannon is the Kushner meeting leak. Now that the Paris announcement is over, it’s guns blazing as we get closer to Thursday.
Baud
@Kay: Excellent. Good on Trudeau.
Kay
I’m still waiting for Trump to make one of those super duper deals I heard so much about.
Reneging on an agreement a prior President made doesn’t count. Where’s the Trump list of accomplishments? He’s good at bellowing about how stupid everyone else is and destroying things, but we were told over and over he’s a “builder”. He hasn’t built shit. He took his entire posse on an an international trip and they came back with what, exactly?
They haven’t even broken ground on The Wall. The master builder can’t put up a wall? I said when he was running that I wouldn’t hire him to resurface my driveway but then I take that decision more seriously than any of his voters took their decision to hire him.
SFAW
@Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire):
I know that Jed Bartlet made a point of that, but isn’t that an OT thing? (As in, pre-Christ-ian.) Maybe it doesn’t matter? (Don’t know, not a Bible kind of guy.)
Baud
@Kay: Trump’s accomplishments would suck. I hope to never hear about them.
Karla
@satby: Tbh, it’s a pet peeve of mine when people give just a chapter and verse number of a Bible verse instead of paraphrasing it (or quoting their favorite translation). The practice is too often used to cast aspersions on people’s scriptural knowledge by implying that there’s a significant gap in their knowledge if they don’t remember what is arguably the least important part of a Bible verse. I mean, I could place your reference within the Sermon of the Mount and could guess what you were driving at, but still had to look it up to be sure. Why do that?
Kay
@Keith P.:
It would be so beautiful if the nepotism hire was Trump’s undoing. There has to be consequences for that or it will become the norm. It truly disgusts me. A lot of the crowing and strutting we do in the US about “merit” is complete bullshit but not even giving a public nod to the notion of merit is a new low. It’s bad. It’s a bad precedent. People have to feel that hard work means something or they will not do it. There are already tons of people who think the entire game is rigged and they can’t succeed. All this does is validate that idea.
SFAW
@Kay:
Then you haven’t been paying attention.
He sold America’s leadership role, and its (and the world’s) future, to Putin for a bowl of pottage.
Fucking traitorous asshole. I wish I believed in Hell, or a Just God.(Although believing wouldn’t necessarily mean there’d be any result, I guess.)
NorthLeft12
@Kay: Yes, our Prime Minister correctly identified the problem, and the opportunity too. California, other states, and many cities and counties will continue to work towards the goals that were agreed to. There are also a great number of corporations that will continue with their commitments, for economic and/or PR reasons.
Once again, all Deadbeat Donald is doing is removing the US from any position of leadership or possible position of negotiation within the group. But then again, this is the kind of move that will excite his rabid base and prove to them how strong their President is and how they don’t need to listen to any stinkin’ ferrenurs.
MattF
xkcd makes an interesting point about infographics. And Florida.
MattF
@Kay: In fact, Trump is a Taker, the Taker-in-Chief.
Kay
@Baud:
It really will matter going forward though. Winners have to win. Trump’s voters will need tangible proof of progress. Especially Trump voters. That self-pity we talk about, where they feel victimized by everything? That’s real. It will turn into disappointment with him – just another person who let them down, because it can’t go anywhere else- they’ll never admit they had anything to do with it.
Lapassionara
Good morning. Anyone going to the St Louis March for Truth tomorrow?
Betty Cracker
Charlie Pierce wrote a great column on Trump’s garbage stunt yesterday. A couple of samples:
Yep.
SFAW
@MattF:
The mouseover popup (whatever the proper name is) is pretty funny, too.
bystander
Moanin’ Joe has been laying out a timeline of events between trumputinites and Russians that the trumputinites have tried to hide.
@germy: I’m still p/o’d about Scott Pelley, but last night’s interview with Kerry gave me hope. CBS actually still seemed to take journalism far more seriously than its competitors, and I would hate to see it the leader in bounce house coverage.
NorthLeft12
@Kay:
This^^^, a million times this ^^^! I hear this in Canada all the time. It is not [yet] a thing in government, but in private business and corporations, and our education system, it is very important to have high profile relatives already in the organization to get that step in. It is making a lot of people very cynical, and in the long run will lead to a poorer and meaner society.
satby
@Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire): T-shirts with X-tian sayings on them, as far as I could tell from a distance. From some of the conversations with fellow travellers he engaged in, they’re all prosperity gospel adherents. Which if I was still a Christian myself would make them heretics. But I’m not, so whateva.
Baud
@Kay: That’s the hope.
Baud
@NorthLeft12: Agree. It’s a big problem.
Quinerly
@Lapassionara:
I may be going. Just got back to town and playing catch up on life. It’s on my calendar and I was going to decide later today.
SFAW
@Kay:
You might be right, but nothing they’ve done so far has indicated that they’re anything other than a bunch of racist, sexists, and morons wanting a dictator to keep the darkies (et al.) away, or keep them from getting good stuff. (Where “good stuff” is defined as “something I already have, but ‘others’ should not be allowed to have, because that would put them on MY level.”)
They may get disappointed, but they’d only turn on Shitgibbon if he did something good for non-WWC voters.
Kay
@NorthLeft12:
California is huge- land, economy, influence. It’s like its own country. I like Jerry Brown a lot- I think he would be a great President. He truly knows what he thinks and wants and he draws on real world experience in government. I always thought the “moonbeam” stuff was bullshit- he strikes me as extremely practical- but he has a better job, really. Running that state is like running a country.
debbie
@ Quinerly:
When Branson came out and said the Trump Administration was a real disappointment, I cheered!
Quinerly
@germy:
Reading comments from bottom up and just saw another comment about the Kerry interview. Will try to find it on line shortly. I’m embarrassed to say that I fell out of the habit of tuning in for network news years ago. Thanks.
bystander
Scarborough is now doing a litany of “President Bannon’s” accomplishments. He must be betting twitler is watching.
Morzer
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/02/federal-agencies-oversight-requests-democrats-white-house-239034
satby
@Karla: I do it specifically to cast aspersions on the scriptural knowledge of people who imply by their ostentatious flaunting of their Christianity (to the point of trying to profit off of it) that they’re more virtuous than others not of their tribe.
And if you had to look it up, then you would know why that particular set of verses was on point.
Evidently, well done me.
Quinerly
@debbie:
Great line. I was impressed how dismissive he was of Trump. I still can’t believe that I am glad when other leaders and businessmen talk smack about the POTUS. All so disturbing on so many levels.
Kay
@SFAW:
I don’t know all of them (of course!) but I do feel like I understand them to some extent, partly because I have to keep them happy in my job. This county went 70% Trump and they hire me. They don’t really understand what I do (and they shouldn’t have to- that’s fine- they’re not interested in “how”) but they’re quick to get pissed off if they don’t see progress. I mean “see” – has to be obvious.
Immanentize
Y’all probably saw this before, but the Mayor of Pittsburgh tweeted back at Trump for taking his city’s name in vain:
I really think he jumped out because Macron out-manned him. More than once. The Pittsburg/Paris line was the tell.
debbie
@satby:
I’d have asked him what he thought about Two Corinthians.
BC in Illinois
@Lapassionara:
Yes. I’ve been talking it up, as a fan of local author Sarah Kindzior, and local Law Prof Gregory Magarian.
Magarian wrote an analysis of the Supreme Court decision on gun laws that tore apart the contention that the founders intended the 2nd Amendment as the way for the people to control the government (i.e., the Feds should live in fear of random wandering militia. He makes an eloquent case that the First Amendment is our mechanism for a government responsive to the people: free speech, free press, free assembly, freedom to address and petition the government, even (I would add) free religion as the right to be who you are. The March for Truth (starting at Union Station, get there by 9:45) is all of these things.
If we are going to have a future together, united and indivisible as a people, then the words which we speak must be able to be trusted. No truth, no trust, no unity. There is no higher task in a democracy, than the work of restoring trust in the words of the people who hold our governmental offices.
ETA: Sorry to go all rhetorical on this, but I am right at the cliff’s edge of being overwhelmed by all these things.
debbie
@bystander:
Did Pelley do something I missed?
Grillo
Wasn’t Okrent that Facebook alternative from Google that was so popular in Brazil?
Kay
@Morzer:
I’m really hoping it reaches Sessions. He is legitimately dangerous to ordinary people in that job. He’s a threat.
My husband told me there’s lots of grumbling about Sessions ramping up the drug war. He does criminal defense and he’s been talking to Republicans who recognize the mass incarceration is morally wrong, incredibly wasteful and completely ineffective- this “crim justice reform” thing has been going on for years.
He says “no one wants to go back there, to the 1980’s and 1990’s”. Kasich actually reduced a whole category of criminal offenses by executive order. They know mass incarceration doesn’t work and they also know it’s ruinously expensive. Sessions is a dinosaur.
Elizabelle
@Kay: KayBait: one of your favorite topics. Warning: it’s Politico.
After climate loss, Ivanka moves on
Ivanka Trump and her husband, Jared Kushner, missed the Rose Garden announcement on the Paris deal, but they have taken the defeat in stride, people familiar with their thinking said.
Looks to me like Kushner’s throwing in Canada and Mexico to mask “China”, where his family has whacking big financial interests.
satby
@debbie: LOL
Lapassionara
@BC in Illinois: Interesting information. We are relatively new to the area, so I did not know these things. As for your last paragraph, that is where I am. I feel better when I take action to register my disgust, even if the action I take may lead no where.
Peale
@Elizabelle: lol. The only reason we need to improve relations with Canada and Mexico is that we elected his father in law.
bystander
@debbie: Pelley was dumped by CBS from the evening news.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Oh, God. Wouldn’t you be embarrassed to write that? So CLEARLY planted by them.
I think they exaggerated their own role and influence and it doesn’t matter what they think. It doesn’t matter what Ivanka thinks about climate change, because Trump didn’t hire her as an adviser.
People said Betsy DeVos had no qualifications in public education. That’s a misunderstanding of why she was hired. She’s a political operative. That’s what she does.
Once we stop assuming Ivanka is a “senior adviser” we can them look at what Ivanka does and evaluate her.
kindness
Once again I question all those liberal minds that told us we needed to get a subscription to The Gray Lady. Why fund that?
I did end up getting a digital script for the WaPo and am happy with that. Of course I also get the dead tree versions of the SF Chronicle & the Modesto Bee. Yea, Central Valley. Hate the Bee but my wife insists. Has a decent comics page and that’s all.
Quinerly
Headshake and facepalm: http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/trump-fans-have-convinced-themselves-covfefe-was-a-secret-arabic-message-against-terrorism/
debbie
@bystander:
Thanks. I’ve been too busy fighting with family members on FB and haven’t kept up.
Elizabelle
@Peale: Truth!
Bringing forward this overnight story; Dr. Bryan Moles might become our next wingnut cause celebre. Libertarians too. (He’s a physician who medicates with weed. And, armed. Heavily armed.)
From the WaPost: Doctors Gone Wild. Pennsylvania Man edition. (not their title)
This all went down at the Trump International Hotel. Moles, a licensed physician, served in the Navy from 1992- apparently 2006**, worked in a hospital until 2013, renewed his medical license in 2016, lives near Lake Erie, and is an excellent marksman. He withdrew $10,000 from his bank account — leaving the significant (to him) balance of $4.19 (hint, hint) — and left a voicemail that alarmed a friend —
A tipster called Pennsylvania police, who coordinated with DC police, and Moles was located at the Trump Hotel, rifle in plain sight in his car. Moles had told the valet to keep an eye on his car, since it was loaded with weapons. Weapons he will not be keeping for long, at least for now:
DC police found the Bushmaster, “two 30-round high capacity magazines and a loaded Glock 23 inside the unlocked glove box” of Moles’ 2017 BMW sedan. Moles is being held “overnight at an undisclosed hotel, under guard and confined to his room pending a federal court hearing scheduled for Friday.”
And, doing what defense attorneys do:
A WaPost reader comment says Moles’ Facebook page says he suffered a head injury recently, but I cannot confirm that.
Per Philly.com:
** The WaPost got Moles’ service dates wrong. Philly paper reports he was in the USN Reserves until 2006.
Keith P.
Kill me now…JoeScar literally busted out the “both sides” argument about the Paris agreement, only he characterized the left’s position as (and I’m attempting to quote) “Florida will be under water in 3 weeks. The world is going to end.” Are…you…fucking…kidding…me? I need coffee.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
“Modernizing government” by holding meetings with CEO is a make-work job. In a normal administration it would be one small part of the VP’s duties. That’s the kind of work they give to Kushner.
In the long tradition of nepotism and corruption, Trump gave his relatives jobs they can’t fail at, because they aren’t real jobs.
clay
From the “No Shit, That’s Because He’s A Child” Dept:
Efforts to persuade Trump had opposite effect
debbie
@Quinerly:
The interview with Jerry Brown is also pretty good. That makes three “antis” in a single morning’s show, very striking for NPR.
Quinerly
My morning smile: http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/01/politics/secret-service-new-marijuana-policy/
Iowa Old Lady
Every time Ivanka speaks, the only response should be “get a job.”
Quinerly
@debbie:
Listening to it while reading about marijuana use and new Secret Service agents.?
SFAW
@Kay:
I understand. The difference is: you’re the hired help. They don’t think of the President — except the blackity-black black Usurper before The Last True President — as “hired help.”
And as the hired help, you’re expected to produce results, sometimes beyond what you were actually told, and if you fall short, then you’re gone.
Betty Cracker
@Morzer: Since they can’t get the information, maybe they should just make the worst assumptions and proceed on that until provided evidence that corrects it?
Quinerly
@debbie:
In related news, I have no interest in hanging out at a raccoon cafe. How about you??
Baud
@Morzer: I guess we need more leaks.
Elmo
@satby: I had Mathew6 as a license plate for the longest time. Used to get a kick out of all the drivers with Jesus fish on their cars giving me a thumbs up as they drove past. “Heh. You didn’t do the homework either,huh?”
Baud
@Betty Cracker: I’m not sure their imagination is creative enough to make the worst assumptions.
Kay
@kindness:
I go back and forth on this whole thing, honestly. The NYTimes did a terrible job in the 2016 election but a lot of their stuff is absolutely wonderful. They have a horrible political team but that isn’t the sum total of the paper.
I feel like we bash “media” too much. I’m as or more guilty of it than anyone. I think about local newspaper reporters and how hard they work and how little they make. The Toledo Blade political reporter’s name is Tom Troy. I see him at events all the time. He called me once to comment on a Mitt Romney gaffe because the gaffe was about a local company. He’s a regular person trying to do his job. A family named “Block” own the Toledo Blade. They’re horrible people and (probably!) horrible employers. They conducted a crusade against their own employees’ union in their newspaper.
Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire)
@SFAW: Yeah, but evangelicals love to abide by the most vengeful parts of the OT (and not so much the love in that the NT tends to be), so I went with it. :-)
Baud
@Kay: Hitler made the trains run on time.
debbie
@Quinerly:
Sigh. I hate those bits. And that stupid Steve-Rachel banter.
NobodySpecial
@Karla: Can’t answer for the OP, but if I, an atheist, know my way around a Bible better than the people I’m questioning, then maybe they should reread the thing, especially if they claim biblical infallibility.
Or they can yell I’m trying to trick them and admit they’re abusing their teachings wrong fir their own selfish ends. Then they can quit trying to fuck with the law to suit their own false religion.
efgoldman
@Kay:
It takes a long, long time to reach escape velocity from Planet Delusia; Every time I see an interview with one of these assholes, they volunteer that “the president” has done “a great job” and “accomplished a lot.”
Elizabelle
@Quinerly: What’s a raccoon cafe?
Quinerly
@Elizabelle:
Well, if you were listening to NPR on Friday AM, you would know. Poco’s ears perked up a bit.?
rikyrah
@PaulWartenberg:
I know ?
Yum at the possibilities
Quinerly
Thoughts?: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/01/bilderberg-trump-administration-secret-meeting
Kay
@kindness:
It’s a strange job. When Troy asked me about Romney’s political gaffe I asked him what he thought. He was taken aback by that because he asks the questions, right? But in my job I ask the questions. I realize I was uncomfortable being questioned because that’s partly about power. There are the people who ask the questions and the people who have to answer them. I almost reflexively turned it around. I don’t speak as “myself” in my job. It doesn’t matter what I think. It was like a stand-off because he doesn’t speak as himself either. He answered though! He told me he, personally, thought it was a bad gaffe. I liked him for doing that, for breaking that wall and answering as a person.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I love that shade?
Quinerly
Perhaps the light bulb just went on and I’m beginning to understand the mind of the Trump supporter?: http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/thank-global-warming-for-the-tapeworm-in-your-brain
Elizabelle
@Kay: I wish Pinch Effing Sulzberger would institute a discount for those of us who pay for, but are no longer reading, the Grey Lady’s political coverage. They disgraced themselves with the (probably Sulzberger-promoted) Clinton Derangement Syndrome. And their “U.S.” section is more heavily all things Trump and political. It’s noticeable they are not doing as many “national” stories as they used to put up.
That said, they do some fabulous reporting on climate change, some great national stories, and they are home to Paul Krugman. I find myself enjoying the op eds and essays by non-Times writers more than most stuff by their own writers. Plug here for Stephanie Strom though. I like her a lot.
It is important to pay for journalism. And probably easier to protest from within the tent. I liked somebody here’s suggestion of cancelling every few weeks to make a point.
Glad to see the WaPost competing heartily again, even with their ridiculous stable of neocon editorial page staff.
efgoldman
@debbie:
Finished a distant third in the evening news ratings.
They’re keeping him on 60 minutes, though.
Interestingly, even though it’s widely known that they’re taking him off the evening newscast, they still introduce it as “The CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley”
rikyrah
@Kay:
He was always full of crap. We should needle the Dolt45 voters about his lack of accomplishments.
Cheryl Rofer
@Quinerly: Hard to know how much influence Bilderberg has on anything. They don’t go public, so it doesn’t matter to The Orange One if they disapprove. And if they do, as the European leaders did on his trip, he’ll do something that will damage the country further.
It would be nice if they would pin McMasters down, though.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I love that Congressman Lieu was like..
Hell yeah, Kushner committed a felony. Don’t give none of that bullshyt that he FORGOT to add those meetings to his Security Clearance application.
No hemming or hawing-yes, a FELONY
Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog
@Aimai: Okrent developed a man-crush on Donald Luskin, a libertarian who had put a lot of time into “proving” Paul Krugman a liar. This went about as well as you’d imagine, except that Okrent took Luskin’s side.
That ticked off quite a few people … could that have been it?
rikyrah
@Betty Cracker:
Speaking of a child.
LarryO reported last night that Dolt45 withdrew from the Accords because Macron hurt his fee fees?
The Everloving PHUCK ??
Baud
@Elizabelle:
But what good does that do if they screw us over when it comes to electing people who will address those issues?
sm*t cl*de
@Elizabelle:
Ah, passive voice. Is there anything it can’t do?
Yes, the whole Politico article has that “self-written Wikipedia entry” style. But don’t they all?
MattF
@Elizabelle: It’s also true that the NYT is unique in its science coverage. Their science coverage so far beyond the rest of the pack that they’re in a different space-time continuum. Also, the arts coverage is unmatched. And, yeah, the crossword.
SFAW
@Adria McDowell (formerly Lurker Extraordinaire):
Good point.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker: And now we know the kind of damage Trumpov is willing to inflict on the US and the planet, just to salve his wounded lil’ ego.
Imagine how he’s going to lash out at Comey’s testimony next week, and the eventual indictments for obstruction, perjury, and more…
Jeffro
@rikyrah:
Henceforth known as, “The bone-crushing handshake that boiled the planet”.
But hey, at least Trumpov doesn’t wear tan suits…
Elizabelle
@Baud: See MattF at 94.
I hear you. I agree the FTF Vichy NYTimes fucked over Hillary, and enabled Trump’s “win”, through their emails obsession. Their whole political stable should be fired. Editors too. They don’t seem to have understood Trump’s threat, and felt free to work Hillary over as hard as they could. Fuck them, fuck them, fuck them.
That said, I think it might be easier to complain as a subscriber. Suspect the problem is fucking Pinch the publisher, and his ridiculous executive editor, Dean Baquet. Pinch is ruining that paper, plain as day.
I’d love to be a fly on the wall when the non-political writers and editors are talking. I would guess they are as disgusted and dismayed as many of us.
Since I’m outside the US, and don’t watch TV, I rely on the NY Times to at least inform me on what the “very serious persons” are obsessing over, even as many of them get it wrong, wrong, wrong. Pretty much a skim. I subscribe to the WaPost and LA Times too, and will add a New Yorker sub when I come back to the States.
The FTF NY Times is seriously flawed. But still regarded as first in its class, dubiously on some points.
Another Scott
@MattF: I get your point – for a popular newspaper, FTFNYT can have very good coverage of things like science.
But these days, it’s easy (and very often better) to go to a site closer to the source for science news.
E.g. AAAS Science Magazine News.
Australian dog serves on editorial boards of seven medical journals… :-/
Similarly, if one is interested in culture and the arts, there are likely more sharply-focused sites that are just a click away.
I see the value in a one-stop shop, but it should be viewed as a starting point, rather than the best location for in-depth coverage. When the Times is good, they can be very good. But they gave us Donnie and they won’t be getting any $ or ad clicks from me until they fix their broken political coverage.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jeffro
Also in today’s WaPo: a touching, moving tribute to Zbigniew Brzezinski from Joe Scarborough. No link, I just thought it was funny. Z-big must be up in heaven going, “Jesus, Mika, really???”
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Hope they are successful. I’d be satisfied if it were commonly known that the NYT is garbage only with respect to it’s coverage of U.S. (especially Democratic) politics. But I don’t see that happening.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
I worried about Clinton as a candidate because the relationship between the Clintons and the NYTimes seems irretrievably broken. It no longer matters what either side does- it can’t be fixed. There’s this looooog, bitter history.
That’s not her fault but it is true and as a partisan I wanted her to win so I don’t really care what the barriers to her winning are. There’s a kind of “sunk cost” idea that seems to operate in journalism. The NYTimes broke the email story and devoted enormous resources to it so it therefore had to be important. The more they focused on it the more it became crucial that it be deemed essential to voters because once they’re defending they double down. The Clinton’s, predictably, do the same. It’s like a bad marriage-hopeless.
Ghost of Joe Liebling's Dog
I have a comment stuck in moderation.
ETA : OK, now I have two comments stuck in moderation, yay me!
Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever commented here without having it stuck in moderation … is that something that can be changed?
Anyway, halp halp plz…
Elizabelle
@Jeffro: The FTF NY Times keeps reminding Trump, with its headlines, that he could cancel Comey’s testimony. Although it would look bad. They’re helpful that way.
and, a day or two later:
Betty Cracker
@Jeffro: Remember when Zbig completely humiliated Scarborough on his own show several years back by pointing out that he was talking out of his ass? That was a thing of beauty. Scarborough spent the next couple of episodes giving the rebuttal he was unable to come up with when Zbig squashed him.
MattF
@Another Scott: As a matter of fact, I subscribe to Science. Good coverage of scientific subjects is high on my list of requirements, I read a lot of it, and I know good coverage when I see it. And I learn things from the NYT that I don’t see anywheres else.
SFAW
@Elizabelle:
Yes. As I noted in another thread, Pinch became publisher in 1992. Interesting coincidental timing re: rise of CDS. I tend to doubt that Punch would have had the same hard-on regarding the Clintons.
One new (for me) thing I discovered: apparently Carlos Slim is the largest shareholder of the New York Times Company. [Another interesting thing: Slim’s father was born Khalil Salim Haddad Aglamaz. No point being made, just found it interesting.]
Betty Cracker
@Elizabelle: I think the chances are pretty good Trump will try to muzzle Comey, and it will backfire spectacularly. Whatever is the political equivalent of putting his dick in a toaster, Trump will do.
Quinerly
@Cheryl Rofer:
Thanks! I was so hoping that you would weigh in. Out of my league.
Elizabelle
@Another Scott: LOL. About that Australian dog, from your link:
Patricia Kayden
@PaulWartenberg: That is the most important news I will hear all day. Thank you!!
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Candidates who have no national profile benefit from the lack of history with political media. They get the benefit of the doubt. I always laugh when I remember Bush II’s actual campaign and portrayal in media. He was portrayed as a practical decision-maker “a reformer who gets results” was his slogan. He’s like a pseudo-religious true believer! The opposite!
That’s partly because he was Texas governor and they weren’t familiar with him. They acted like Obama fell from space and Chicago was this distant province. The Clintons? They “KNOW” them. There’s an entire narrative.
We should think about that if we want to win.
Patricia Kayden
@Kay:
Destroying the Black guy’s legacy seems to be all he has “accomplished” so far. Since his base is petty, that may be all that he needs to maintain their support.
Elizabelle
@Kay: I don’t see that the Clintons are the equivalent in that equation. More like the battered spouse. And they can’t leave the marriage. The FTF NYTimes is perceived as the preeminent paper of record.
Politico has colonized the FTF NYTimes too. I would bet The New Yorker is a far more honest broker for national political coverage, as is New York magazine.
JPL
@Jeffro: What testimony? Trump is going to invoke executive privilege. What does he have to lose.
Graham and McCain will feign shock, and then move along to the next story.
edited to mention that Eliz. beat me to it.
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle: NYT: ” Could Trump have Comey knocked off or deported to Canada? It would be irresponsible not to speculate.”
Elizabelle
@Kay: Yeah. Whoever pointed out that Democratic presidents (ie. presidential candidates) need to come up rapidly, before they’re framed by big media (who take their cues from rightwing points) got it right.
Did you guys notice that the FTF NYTimes assigned The Atlantic’s Molly Ball to review Al Franken’s recent book? And she slammed it. Just slammed it.
Patricia Kayden
@Betty Cracker: And now Joe is about to marry Zbig’s daughter so who has the last laugh?
Jeffro
@Elizabelle: Trumpov himself has already talked about the conversations; it’ll be interesting to see if executive privilege is a one-way street.
He won’t do it, but Comey’s also welcome to just grab a mic and hold a tell-all press conference. SOMEone’s going to have to take the leap here, at some point. Whether it’s Comey or one of the Dem Reps/Sens on these various intelligence committees, sworn to secrecy or no, executive privilege or no, they need to start talking.
Elizabelle
@Patricia Kayden: Yup. Le sigh.
Bobby Thomson
@Kay:
They aren’t wrong.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
But a big part of what Democrats loved about Bill Clinton is he refused that role. He fights. I read his (too long) autobiography. A big part of Bill Clinton is really relishing being the underdog and winning anyway. He really did come from nothing. It’s hugely important for him to believe he is as good or better than his social superiors. The whole “battered spouse” thing doesn’t fit with “fighter”. She wants to be President. That’s a powerful position. She can’t be the victim of a newspaper even if she is.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker:
Wait, what? Joe talking out of his ass??
That’s just not the Joe Scarborough I know…
MattF
@Betty Cracker: I’m waiting to see what will happen with that. Apparently, the main avenue for the Trumpites to stop Comey is a restraining order– but that means a judge will have to decide that the interests of confidentiality override the possible benefit to the public of Comey’s testimony. And Trump has already spilled the beans, so that criterion may be a non-starter.
Morzer
@Quinerly:
“The eyes are open, the mouth moves, but Mr Brain has long since departed”
clay
@clay:
From the WaPo article linked:
**This line reminds me of what my students will write on their applications to join the National Honor Society. Trying to make themselves sound really important, but completely meaningless. I almost 100% guarantee it came from Ivanka herself.
***Fuck you, Jared
****So the European leaders were willing to sacrifice NATO for climate change. I really admire them for their moral principles and leadership.
++Sure, the notoriously short-attention-spanned Trump “listened” for hours. They listen but they do not hear.
+++Boo-fucking-hoo. If you were too dumb to predict all of this, then you don’t deserve those high-paying jobs.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
Obama had the same thing, but sunnier and less ruthless than Clinton. They’re like “look at us! Who would have thought we’d be President with all these barriers people threw up!” I don’t think it’s accidental that both Bill Clinton and Obama’s campaign slogans centered on “hope”. They’re very hopeful people.
MomSense
From Dolt 45s Paris announcement
Something tells me his humiliating trip abroad got to him.
Bobby Thomson
@SFAW: This. They aren’t exactly subscribers to the Economist or the Journal.
Laura
I always thought the “moonbeam” stuff was bullshit-
Kay, the moonbeam bullshit was perpetuated by fatuous gas bag Dan Walters, Sacramento Bee political journalist/hack who just took a buyout from the Bee.
Jerry is a great Governor and would have been an excellent president. Jerry was asked what his primary job a couple of years ago. He replied “keeping my wife happy.” I cut the quote out of the paper and taped it to spouse’s checkbook where it resides to this day.
Peale
@Elizabelle: unfortunately, this only adds to the ongoing perception that academic research is filled with fraud.
Karla
@satby: @satby: My only point is that using the reference instead of the words is ostentatious flaunting.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
I liked the old Bill Clinton more than the elder statesman Bill Clinton. I knew he was a salesman. He’s good at it. I genuinely don’t get the Trump appeal because he’s so godammned sour and negative. I don’t even know what he’s selling. No one does. They keep trying to define what he’s selling- the alt right, some nativist world order, but he’s not even coherent or good at it. He’s just a bitter, mean-spirited asshole with a lot of dumb opinions.
hovercraft
@Kay:
Scott Pruitt, DeVos, Sessions and the rest are “accomplishing a great deal by unraveling policies that Obama implemented! Ask Yertle and conservatives, and they will tell you that in stopping Obama from filling court vacancies they accomplished a great deal, for these Troglodytes destroying things especially the government is a great accomplishment. Pissing liberals and elites off is an accomplishment. Blowing up the Paris Accords and causing dissension in NATO is an accomplishment, that it pisses of the media and those Europeans makes it extra special. The executive orders he issued a couple of months go and the regulatory reversals Pruitt has done were much more detrimental to the environment than yesterday, it was the symbolism and the giant fuck you to the world that was most harmful. Twitler will now surely get the love and respect he so craves around the world, right? Talk about improving America’s image around the world. We’re number one!
MattF
@Kay: One does wonder. Some blame his father Fred, for being hard on little Donnie, but I’m not so sure. Fred was an SOB, but I think he had some insight into his son’s character. There’s a Steve Earle song ‘Tom Ames’ Prayer’ that starts:
Quinerly
@Morzer:
Yep.
different-church-lady
The more I hear “the public” talk, the more I think the Founding Fathers had some seriously misplaced faith.
different-church-lady
@Kay:
Hatred. Duh.
Patricia Kayden
@Morzer:
Wow. Wow. Wow. In other words, there is new information that could be used to reveal just how mendacious and criminal this White House Occupant and we’re going to cover up for him. Glad this is getting out into the public eye. And kudos to Democratic congressional minorities for keeping up the pressure on this regime.
SFAW
@MattF:
Nah, Fred created him, possibly in his own image. Certainly parts of it are a mini-version of Fred: the racism especially, probable anti-semitism (probable for Shitgibbon, Fred definitely was). Don’t know if Fred was a whiny, entitled, professional victim. And he was probably a better businessman than his idiot son. (Of course, it would be tough to be worse than Shitgibbon. Come to think of it, Shrub was pretty fucking bad as a business owner. Hmmm.)
Patricia Kayden
@Elizabelle:
Can someone point to any successful whisperer duties that Ivanka has performed vis-a-vis her father? I sure cannot.
From CNN:
Mike in DC
For those who are interested, the March for Truth starts at the Washington Monument at 11am on Saturday, and runs until 2pm. The route is about a mile long. Maybe get there early, I suspect there will be a lot of people there.
Chris
@Quinerly:
From your link:
Amazing how many conservatives’ perceptions of Arab/Muslim culture stems from the fact that they read “Dune” as teenagers.
Furthermore, even if this was true – what the fuck? You’re trying to encourage the Arab world to “stand up,” and the best way you can think of doing it is to hide it inside a tweet on a completely unrelated topic and hope they notice? “Ooo, I’m so clever! I tricked the liberal media into carrying my message!” Why? Why not just give a speech on the topic, in which you tell the Arab world, “stand up?”
Morzer
@Kay:
Trump is selling the eternal right of mean-spirited, semi-demented sons of bitches to have rambling, enraged, self-pitying conversations with each other in bars that sell drinks that were better inside the source cat. Lots of people out there seek nothing better from life than the feeling of screwing someone else over while whining about how unfair it is that their electric personalities and wonderful array of bigoted jokes never got the recognition that they deserved..
Chris
@Kay:
Both families are pretty much the American Dream myth personified: people who started out at “normal” or worse and made their way to the top through genuine talent and hard fucking work.
No wonder Republicans hate them so much.
SiubhanDuinne
@Quinerly:
Never change, Guardian.
Jeffro
@Mike in DC: I’m going! Probably won’t be down there until noon or so. I promised my daughter I’d pick up some serious Trumpov-bashing swag…she’s excited about that prospect.
Then again, it’s hard to beat this for “Trumpov-bashing swag” =)
Chris
@MomSense:
One should never underestimate how much of GOP politics is driven entirely by their own insecurities.
Wyatt Derp
Love how he says he may renegotiate the agreement. It’s voluntary. How do you renegotiate that? If Chump had even casually scanned the agreement he might know that (for some fleeting amount of time before forgetting it again).
Chris
@different-church-lady:
Huh?
Wyatt Derp
@Chris:
And also amazing that they don’t realize in Dune the Jihadists were the good guys.
Chris
@Wyatt Derp:
Heh. Yep.
I read the book not very long after 9/11 and thought the same thing. The fact that the ultimate ruler is named “Shaddam” just makes it even more on the nose than when it was written.
Wapiti
@Patricia Kayden:
From where I’m sitting, every handful of shit that Trump smears on himself or others just makes Obama look more appealing.
sherparick
Speaking of articles you won’t find in the Times, which is constantly surprised that “Trump is no Governing like a Democrat” from the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/apr/10/new-age-ayn-rand-conquered-trump-white-house-silicon-valley
And from New York magazine.http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/trumps-role-model-is-an-ayn-rand-character.html@SFAW:
Patricia Kayden
@Quinerly: From the time I saw Trump’s covfefe tweet, I knew his sycophants and supporters would claim that it was a real word. They are beyond delusional to the point where there may be something mentally deficient about those people. It’s scary.
hovercraft
@MomSense:
So true, the butt hurt is palpable, a reporter who could see the telepromptor said that line was ad libbed. And who the hell thought that putting it out there that he was bewildered by Macron’s criticisms of him and didn’t like being lumped in with Erdogan and Putin, and that that was the final nudge towards withdrawing? I get that they’re not telling us anything we didn’t know, but announcing to the world that the President of the most powerful country in the world is a petulant child. The level of incompetence in this administration is gob smacking.
NorthLeft12
@MomSense:
Honestly, there is a shitload of projection here. The exact quote should read “laughing at me anymore.”
And I will repeat myself, again; there are hardly any of your neighbors who are actually laughing about this. Canadians are concerned, more than ever, that the US is becoming more unfriendly and belligerent, more selfish and greedy than ever before. It will be more difficult to deal with you on a business level, and on the many shared environmental, infrastructure, and other issues that need both of our attention and efforts.
However, I do know that there are many people and organizations throughout the US that are responsible actors on these issues between us. The trick will be to find them and ensure that the federal influence is minimized.
MattF
@Wyatt Derp: That would involve reading something.
satby
@Karla: let me refer you to the excellent response here @NobodySpecial:
Morzer
@Wyatt Derp:
Well, let’s just remember that the villain is enormously obese, has perverse sexual tastes and doesn’t walk anywhere. You can see why Trump fans might need to exercise a bit of strategic denial to read Dune and cast themselves as the good guys.
rikyrah
@Elizabelle:
Uh huh.
Also found out last night that everything they’re looking into about Kushner DOES NOT fall under Executive Privilege.
tee hee hee.
PS-Comey is gonna talk…one way or another. ….
Peale
@NorthLeft12: sure the citizens may be. But you’re getting your pipeline now so most of the people in power won’t be too hard on things and they’ll probably come to the conclusion that Mexico will get it worse, so they’ll grin and bear it.
Wyatt Derp
@Morzer:
LOL Trump = Baron Harkonnen! He even named his son after him!
rikyrah
Bilderberg 2017: secret meeting of global leaders could prove a problem for Trump
The annual gathering of government and industry elites will include a ‘progress report’ on the Trump administration. Will it get a passing grade?
Charlie Skelton in Chantilly, Virginia
Thursday 1 June 2017 03.00 EDT
The storm around Donald Trump is about to shift a few miles west of the White House, to a conference centre in Chantilly, Virginia, where the embattled president will be getting his end-of-term grades from the people whose opinion really matters: Bilderberg.
The secretive three-day summit of the political and economic elite kicks off on Thursday in heavily guarded seclusion at the Westfields Marriott, a luxury hotel a short distance from the Oval Office. The hotel was already on lockdown on Wednesday, and an army of landscapers have been busy planting fir trees around the perimeter, to protect coy billionaires and bashful bank bosses from any prying lenses.
Perched ominously at the top of the conference agenda this year are these words: “The Trump administration: a progress report.” Is the president going to be put in detention for tweeting in class? Held back a year? Or told to empty his locker and leave? If ever there’s a place where a president could hear the words “you’re fired!”, it’s Bilderberg.
Lee Hartmann
@Aimai: this is why. spurious attack on Krugman.
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2008/10/why-is-ex-new-y.html
sherparick
@Wapiti: Remember, as Driftglass says, they are the tribe that rubs shit in their hair. Seeing all the liberals and hippie environmentalists (like me) squeal is a big psychological win for them. Trump’s and Sessions’ reassertion of white supremacy in America is a big psychological win for them. They are free to act like Huckleberry Finn’s Pap without the political correctness stuff. https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/01/05/does-one-word-change-huckleberry-finn/the-words-of-pap-finns-rant
The fact they are destroying the country, and making America small and evil, that does not register. Trump has put a spring in their step for the last 24 months. Hitler after all did the same for the Germans after 1933, but that did not end well did.
Job’s God is ironic. He is getting a chuckle that Trump’s and Putin’s great opponent and champion of democracy and liberal values is a small German woman.
Quinerly
@SiubhanDuinne:
?
Jeffro
Trump Hands the Chinese a Gift: The Chance For Global Leadership
Man, if we thought some folks’ “economic anxiety” was bad before…this should give them a bad case of the real deal, no quote marks needed.
Jeffro
Someone ought to let K-Thug know we have a perfectly good term for what he’s trying to describe here:
First person to get a response from Professor Krugman, noting that he promises to use the term “Cleek’s Law” in a future column, let us know!!!
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
Twitler can try to muzzle Comey but since he’s talked about the conversations, he;s waived his executive privilege. The other thing is that by firing him he also has no way of forcing him not to speak. Comey is a lawyer, a real one who knows the law, unlike the ones surrounding the Shitgibbon who make shit up as they go along. Comey’s been testifying in front of congress for years, he knows what he’s doing, so he’ll say what he needs to say while protecting Mueller’s case. The Dolt fucked with the wrong people this time, these aren’t contractors who can’t afford to fight him, he’s up against the entire IC community and the “Deep State”.
germy
@Wyatt Derp:
I thought he named him after his old spokesman John Barron.
different-church-lady
Dear Moron: SOCIAL MEDIA IS THE REASON WE NOW HAVE AN INSANE DOLT FOR PRESIDENT.
hovercraft
Pence: ‘For Some Reason Or Another,’ The Left Cares About Climate Change (VIDEO)
FOX was so impressed by this pronouncement they tweeted it out for all the world to see:
clay
@hovercraft:
U.S. unemployment hits lowest level since 2001
How will we ever get over this burden?!?
rikyrah
General McMaster’s former officers claim Trump is ‘using’ him and tarnishing the military https://t.co/YjpchKGnI9 pic.twitter.com/8WarC3cOpW
— Raw Story (@RawStory) June 2, 2017
Daily Beast: H.R. McMaster is ‘being used’ for his general’s stars, his old military comrades say. https://t.co/Bp4PTn5Zi5
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) June 2, 2017
SFAW
@hovercraft:
I am not comforted to know that Pence is as big a fucking asshole as his (non-Russian*) boss.
*”Non-Russian” meaning “not a citizen of Russia.” I know Shitgibbon is a Russian at heart,** and does Vladi’s bidding.
**In the sense that he loves being a dictator. (Yes, I know, “not all Russians,” etc.)
Quinerly
Dog help us: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4565154/Guilfoyle-reveals-Trump-called-Paris-pull-out.html
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
I think this scathing article by Ricks must be eating at McMaster.
General McMaster, Step Down—and Let Trump Be Trump
Save your reputation while you still can. The country will be fine.
By Thomas E. Ricks
May 28, 2017
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay: I’m happy to say that the various Europeans I’ve met on my walk across northern Spain differentiate between Trump, the GOP, and the rest of the US. They’re rather sympathetic to our plight, actually, while also aghast that our system allowed the orange buffoon to be elected.
hovercraft
@Quinerly:
It really boggles the mind, doesn’t it? Kimberly Guilfoyle? I saw this over at Crooks and Liars, and my first thought was WTF, and then I saw this line:
and it all made sense in a convergence of stupid kind of way.
Quinerly
@hovercraft:
Plus, she appears to have big tits. Oops, bigly tits.?
Peale
@hovercraft: Only because Trump is against it. Its not like we hadn’t brought it up before. Ran a candidate 17 years ago who made global warming a central focus of his objectives. Nope, we just rallied behind this idea yesterday because of Cleek’s Law, democratic version.
Citizen Alan
@hovercraft:
Well, she does have better tits than Spicer, which I assume is the only thing Shitgibbon cares about.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Ghost of Joe Liebling’s Dog:
FYWP doesn’t like apostrophes in nyms, I believe. Change your nym accordingly, and after the first “new” comment is approved by a front-pager you should be good to go.
J R in WV
@Karla:
This one verse turns modern prosperity gospel, the most favored current worship of Republican fascists, on its head. Thus it has become quite well known with christians who disapprove of people preaching “their gospel” quite publicly, which includes exactly none of the teachings of christ, and most of the least significant and most stringent requirements of the old testament, which according to rabbi Jesu are still to be incorporated into his christian flavor of judiasm, with the bloody bits overruled by his modern interpretation of love thy neighbor and do onto others as ye would have them do unto you.
It would also, if followed properly, keep evangelists from god-bothering people who don’t care to hear their obviously unchristian and false teachings spread all over the landscape. But, no, the most important parts of the messages of christ are ALWAYS left out of worship services of the right-wing patriarchal mega-churches.
And this is why Satby mentioned the verse where the christ tells his followers to pray in secret, lest others suspect them of hypocrisy by praying as a show rather than as a sincere act of worship. How I wish preachers would take those words to heart!!
Shalimar
@Citizen Alan: Store-bought breasts. Spicer could have those too if that is what it takes to keep his job.
Wyatt Derp
@germy:
My version is both funnier and more sinister. I’m sticking with it.
Betsy
@Kay:
I want to front-page this quote!!! It stands for so much these days. The kneecapping of labor, the buying of elected leaders, the reduction of every charitable and altruistic feeling to monetization …