Getting a lot of play on Twitter:
The President began by asking me whether I wanted to stay on as FBI Director, which I found strange because he had already told me twice in earlier conversations that he hoped I would stay, and I had assured him that I intended to. He said that lots of people wanted my job and, given the abuse I had taken during the previous year, he would understand if I wanted to walk away.
My instincts told me that the one-on-one setting, and the pretense that this was our first discussion about my position, meant the dinner was, at least in part, an effort to have me ask for my job and create some sort of patronage relationship. That concerned me greatly, given the FBI’s traditionally independent status in the executive branch.
I replied that I loved my work and intended to stay and serve out my tenyear term as Director. And then, because the set-up made me uneasy, I added that I was not “reliable” in the way politicians use that word, but he could always count on me to tell him the truth. I added that I was not on anybody’s side politically and could not be counted on in the traditional political sense, a stance I said was in his best interest as the President.
A few moments later, the President said, “I need loyalty, I expect loyalty.” I didn’t move, speak, or change my facial expression in any way during the awkward silence that followed. We simply looked at each other in silence. The conversation then moved on, but he returned to the subject near the end of our dinner.
I’m going to get lunch now. Will be back in a bit.
Corner Stone
James Comey is dropping it like it’s hot.
jl
So we got him, right? It’s all over?
Corner Stone
Sha-Zam!!
Major Major Major Major
That’s gonna leave a mark.
Mart
Strangers in the night, exchanging glances…
LAO
JMG
The awkward silence part is just awesome!
Corner Stone
@jl: No? Because nothing matters? Nothing matters. Ok, thanks.
Cheryl Rofer
All right! LUNCH!
jl
@Corner Stone: Need a little insert of a loop of SNL Lester Holt saying that for the broadcasts of all the Congressional hearings.
SatanicPanic
@jl: Nothing matters anymore
Quinerly
@jl:
Comey did tell the President that he personally wasn’t under investigation. Squares with Trump/Holt interview. Granted, I haven’t read the entire thing. Going off what Pete Williams is reporting.
Corner Stone
@Cheryl Rofer: Man, I am dyin’ for a cheeseburger right now but don’t feel like breaking away.
Cheryl Rofer
One translation might be Cosa Nostra.
OMG. Got to tear myself away!
LAO
@Cheryl Rofer: Mafia omerta is “that thing of ours” — Trump fucks up everything!
Bill E Pilgrim
“We had that thing…”
I bet in real life he added “Shame if anything happened to it…”
Ksmiami
So it’s a pee pee cup after all. Never complicate what can be explained with money, hookers and blow.
Corner Stone
MSNBC’s Pete Williams is doing some real work for the WH right now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Corner Stone: I thought you were making with some snark. I wonder if Comey has ever spoken the word “hookers” aloud.
LAO
I can’t help myself — horrible pun and all:
Bill E Pilgrim
I’m not familiar with this “cloud” slang, is that what happens before the showers?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
They’re gonna find spicy rocking back and forth in a supply closet wearing one of Bess Truman’s hats and repeating, “Don’t know the thing, don’t know what the thing is, don’t know the thing, don’t know what the thing is”
ArchTeryx
And while everyone is paying attention to Comey, McConnell starts yakking his mouth about Trumpcare: http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2017/06/terrifyingly-realistic-chance-trumpcare-passing#comments
Yeah, I’m a healthcare evangelist. It’s REALLY starting to look like Trumpcare is a done deal and the ACA and Medicaid is toast. Don’t forget what happened in the House, and realize that McConnell is 10x the politician that Ryan is – and Ryan got that abomination passed out of the House.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Made me laugh
SatanicPanic
@ArchTeryx: I think there’s not a whole lot we can do about the AHCA. My senators are both opposed. Our only hope is 2020.
EDIT- I don’t mean to come off as callous, if so I’m sorry. I just don’t know what to do about more bad news. It sucks.
JCJ
@Corner Stone:
You haven’t had your cheeseburger yet? By the time you finally get it you will need to make it a double!
ruemara
Let’s get honest. There isn’t a damned thing that would get the GOP to impeach this American fascist regime. They could (and are) very much implicated in colluding with a foreign power, they’ve already been shown to be undermining fair & free elections in America and every newspaper could have bombshell testimony that Trump gave the nuclear codes, and the NSA wifi password to Russia and Saudi Arabia and all the GOP would do is justify it. Not to mention that fuckheaded base of craven peasants that are key.
They are going to crack down on voting in the black, latino and young communities. Meanwhile, Dems and progressives are still humping Wilmer’s leg. We need your help to get us our votes. There is no savior coming out of these hearings. We need to know, but the work is not about knowing this. It was obvious from last May. Systemic voter suppression is why Clinton lost. Illegal voter tampering aided, but it wouldn’t have worked without the blind eye to local seats endemic to liberal & progressive voters and failure to act with full force on getting people registered, and out to vote.
If I sound angry, you’re goddamned right. Watching yet another person of color get choked to near death on video because the husband(!) of an off-duty sheriff felt he had a right to chokehold him until he stopped moving, while white people blocked access to the pair and tried to block them from taping the assault, it fucking makes me all the more aware of how the results of the 2016 election are affecting my communities. We pay first in our blood while everyone else gets to be “tired” and waiting for someone to say just the right goddamned thing to move people who’ve been proven to have the ethics of a worm. Nothing coming out of this week will save this country from a party in control who have abandoned the principles of democracy. They’ve been showing that’s who they are for years. Yes, pay attention to what’s going on in the hearing, but don’t look for some grand denouement of criminality brought to justice. That’s movies and tv. This is real life and the people in charge will glad break this country down to it’s evil roots of terror, disease and poverty for everyone except a bare few. And enough voters are stupid enough to believe that they’re part of the few.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The president and a select few in the executive branch know what ‘that thing’ is, understand it perfectly, and it is all fine.
catclub
@LAO:
isn’t la cosa nostra that thing of ours?
I thought of omerta as silence.
TenguPhule
And here I thought this was going to be a slow news day.
germy
TenguPhule
@jl:
Nothing matters. Absolutely nothing.
tobie
@Quinerly:
Isn’t the key word here “personally”?
EDIT: The double standard in all this is amazing. No smoking gun has come to equal declaration of innocence. Would that it were that HRC was given such latitude.
Major Major Major Major
@ruemara: Yeah, pretty much this.
What do we do, though, other than GOTV (which is always great advice, and always unheeded, probably because it’s work)?
LAO
@catclub: you are correct! I’m wrong. Damn, I’m more like Trump than I wish to admit.
Chris
@ArchTeryx:
My opinion from the start has been that if it can get out of the House, the odds are that it goes all the way through, with only minor or cosmetic changes.
I would love to be wrong about this.
TenguPhule
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Three lies in one sentence. Is that one for the records?
Jeffro
@LAO: truly, a two-bit Don if there ever was one…
Barbara
@Cheryl Rofer: I just read the linked article at Vox. Russian opposition journalist doesn’t quite buy the conspiracy theories, which, really just makes his assessment about Trump even more devastating.
https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/2/22/14697718/donald-trump-putin-russia-kremlin-hillary-clinton
TenguPhule
@ArchTeryx:
But Brachinator was only yesterday assuring me that McConnel was slowboating this.
*Gasp*, don’t tell me they were wrong?!
Chris
@LAO:
No you’re not.
This
is why.
ruemara
@Major Major Major Major: Voteriders.org helps people get their paperwork. Flippable.org lists races. There’s the indivisible team. Working vacation to help people learn about their paperwork needs. Sharing voting id requirements in key states. Keeping people up to date on races, early voting, voting options. I just see more memes about “Dumb Donald” than I do about “Here’s what to do”.
Hoodie
Note he said “hookers in Russia” not “Russian hookers” or , more accurately, “hookers hired by Russian agents.” Folks might assume that the peepee tape was shot in Russia, but it could have been shot anywhere (e .g., Vegas). Trump seems to have a thing for Eastern Europe beauties, there are plenty of them in the employ of Russian mobsters.
Betty Cracker
@ruemara: True, every word.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
It’s his job, didn’t he get his start working for St. Reagan back in the day? His “reporting” on Twitler strikes me as being on par with Good News for Twitler Halpern. As far as they are concerned since his white base rationalizes everything and won’t desert him, they must speak for those people. Never-mind that his numbers are slipping, the stories won’t stop, because Twitler still doesn’t get that the government is not his personal fiefdom. The serfs do have the power to bring him down.
I hope that that is what eats away at him, he’s being brought down by nameless nobodies, him the smartest most handsome, toughest man in the world who defeated the entire establishment, is being brought down by nobodies! SAD! IT’S JUST NOT FAIR!
TenguPhule
@ruemara:
And you think voting is going to change that when they’ve abandoned the principles of democracy?
You think they’re just going to give up all this power they’ve seized willingly, without a fight?
germy
MazeDancer
Trump told Comey:
Then Trump demanded that of everyone. Sessions, McMaster, Tillerson, Wray, Ryan, McConnell.
Coats and Rogers sure look like they swore the oath.
mai naem mobile
Why was this released today? Is it because Comey wants to see Dolt’s initial response or some other reason?
ArchTeryx
@ruemara: *peeks out from his silo* Agree with every word. You understand just how bone-deep tribalism is, and so do a lot of the members of the A-A community…because it’s been used as a cudgel to bludgeon them since slavery.
It’s even one and a piece with my silo. The Republicans think that most people on Medicaid are African American, and that we need a whole lot fewer of them. That some whites die right along side – well, they won’t mind being sacrifices to Moloch.
Betty Cracker
@ruemara: If you don’t mind, I’d like to front-page all or part of your comment later, with some suggestions about what to do about it.
Bobby Thomson
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: the word hookers is in his opening statement. It’s undoubtedly the word Trump used.
jeffreyw
@Corner Stone:
Cheeseburrger
Barbara
@SatanicPanic: I don’t think you come off as callous. It’s wrong to kill the messenger. There really is not a lot we can do. People in Pennsylvania and West Virginia and Ohio and Iowa and Wisconsin and Florida who are going to lose coverage really did vote for repeal. I know many people who did not, and my sympathy is for them and them alone. I do know that it is unlikely Susan Collins will be the governor of Maine if this bill passes or that Dean Heller will be reelected. The only other possibly persuadable people, really, are Gardner, Flake and Murkowski. None of them has ever shone a lick of backbone on anything else that was important.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: take a chill pill man, sheesh
Keith P.
Fox News is spinning this as having vindicated Trump (i.e. he didn’t ask to end the *entire* investigation).
germy
@Betty Cracker:
I was thinking the same thing. Some powerful writing. Belongs on a front page.
Bobby Thomson
@ruemara: well said.
LAO
@Keith P.: Ok, then. And, really what else did you expect them to do. Fox News is “all in” for Trump.
ArchTeryx
@Barbara: So that’s why the story’s disappeared from the front pages. It’s at the stage of fatalism. Yeah, I’m there too. The only good thing is that I’m one of the lucky few that got a seat in a lifeboat as the Titanic is going down behind me. I still feel intensely for the tens of millions not so lucky, who will go down with the ship.
Quinerly
@mai naem mobile:
Katy Tur on MSNBC suggested that it was released today to slam that joke of a hearing this AM and to take the breath out of the Twitter campaign against Comey that is percolating. MSNBC is reporting that Trump is planning an all out war against Comey.
NotMax
@ArchTeryx
Still a long shot that anything makes it successfully through the Senate.
Should it come to pass, a cobbled together Senate version will be even more unpalatable to the Wackaloon Caucus in the House .
The jockeying will continue until “it’s an election year, let’s not rock the boat” jitters kick in this fall. For us (and for the good of the public), it remains a protracted battle but not a lost cause.
Oatler.
Anyone else catch this morning’s Trump “infrastructure” speech that ended with the military band playing the Liberty Bell March for 30 seconds before CSpan 3 cut away from it?
I laughed my semprini off!
Major Major Major Major
@ruemara:
That’s true, though the same dynamic plays out with pretty much every subject imaginable. Personally, I try not to let that get to me. I am not always successful, of course. YMMV.
Corner Stone
@jeffreyw: Nice. But this is always my problem. I finally decide on what I want. Then my brain starts adding accessories and condiments and side dishes that would all punch up the main dish. And I get to a point where I am just like, fuckit. Cereal it is, or I’m going to bed.
So lately I have just been concentrating on the basics – pan fry a patty, slap a slice of cheese on it, put it on some white bread. Eat.
rikyrah
@ruemara:
YES….
yes….
Chyron HR
POTUS: “I have not been involved with pee hookers in Russia.”
Comey: “Were you in a hotel room at the same time as Russian hookers were urinating?”
POTUS: “Melania! STOP THIS CRAZY THING!”
hovercraft
@ruemara:
I’m as pissed as you about this, and I think you’re right, the cowards in the house and senate will not lift a finger to do anything about this, the leadership knew this was going on* long before the election but they insisted Obama keep it under wraps, a colossal mistake on Obama’s part, I know either way he’d be attacked, and for all we know the republicans would have just screamed partisan attack and the morons would have voted for the moron anyway, the BS/GG crowd would have screamed bullshit and stayed home harder. For months none of this has dented Twitler with his base, but that may be changing, and that is when they’ll finally turn on him, to save their own necks. We need to watch what happens with GA 6, if we win that, it’ll scare them. His approval numbers are the key, they’ll stuck with him if their voters do, then it’ll be up to us to drive them all out next year.
Hoodie
@germy: A couple possibilities: 1) Yertle is worried Trump won’t last long and nothing will get signed once he resigns or is impeached; 2) Yertle thinks Trump will be gone before anything gets to his desk, the bill will die in the ensuing maelstrom and this shields the congressional GOP from backlash from the GOP base for failing to repeal Obama care – it will be Trump’s fault, not the senate’s. These are not mutually exclusive.
Kay
@Chris:
It’s what they voted for. This can’t go on forever. All these R voters can’t keep voting for these people and then expecting public services and programs. If they didn’t know this is what they were voting for then they have to put more effort into this.
If you’re a Medicaid recipient you shouldn’t be relying on Democrats but voting for Republicans. It’s a kind of luxury, this cavalier assumption that the entities and programs people rely upon will continue to operate – it’s a luxury 99% of people don’t have.
Here’s what happens when voters pitch a hissy fit and elect someone like Donald Trump. They lose. They were not in a position to take all that risk.
At some point they have see consequences or treating this like a reality tv show will continue. It gets worse every cycle. There was NO substantive discussion of health care yet people are telling pollsters now that it’s Job One. Too late! Too fucking late. They gambled and now they get hurt. Nothing is free. Nothing. If they’re so childish that they believe that Medicaid drops from the sky and everything that exists now will continue to exist forever with no effort or sacrifice or compromise on their part then they have to grow up.
schrodingers_cat
Negativity seems to be the order of the day. If you think you have lost you have already lost. The Rs are not ten feet tall and all powerful. Speculation about what Rs think, what their voters think is a fool’s errand, focus on what we can do. This fight has not even begun. Turning back the clock is not going to be easy for them no matter what their desires.
Barbara
@ArchTeryx: I have been contacting senators and I have been posting things on my Facebook page. I am not succumbing to fatalism and it pisses me off every which way I can think of, but I can’t/won’t avoid reality.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic: I seriously think that people are going to have to consider what happens if the Republicans in Congress and the Executive branch refuse a peaceful transition of power. How do you legally enforce a democratic result when the other parties refuse to comply?
Consider this, they could theoretically tie up any unfavorable election results with challenges for YEARS if they shop the courts right and get the five on the SC to play along. Sure it would be bad faith, have they at any time demonstrated any other kind?
It’s not a matter of simply having the police or FBI just haul them away in handcuffs. IANAL, but our lawyers might want to consider yet another frontier in “They wouldn’t possibly do this…wait what?!”
ruemara
@Betty Cracker: Feel free
@TenguPhule: I work in the field of manipulating the public. It’s not that they are willing to rescind power, it’s that they’re able to be cowed by rejection. If they show that they aren’t, that cannot be spun. I have no illusions that we’re going to avoid serious violence in this country, the likes of which we’ve assumed was always going to be in the past. The sheer act of winning does a lot to disavow them.
jl
@Major Major Major Major: Doing GOTV work for midterms and 2020 is critically important. I think also doing everything possible to discredit Trump and his gang in the public eye is important too. So, I think we need both. GOTV and registration gives many who did not vote in 2016 the means. Relentlessly pointing out all the ways that Trump is unfit for office, dangerous to the nation and the world, and reminding people that he has completely betrayed the promises he made to scrape together < 100K votes to squeak into office, will give people the motive to use the means at their disposal the next couple of elections.
A big increase in turnout will help foil their voter suppression efforts.
HeleninEire
@rikyrah: Glad to see you here later than the morning thread (which I read close to noon my time.) Anyway I wanted to tell you that your contributions to Balloon Juice are invaluable to me. I learn so much from your posts.
In fact I think Cole should give you an early afternoon post titled something like “In the news today.”
Thank you.
Corner Stone
@hovercraft:
I am pretty sure we are not going to win that seat. All early voting shows white women crashing the ballot box and if that metric holds up in GA we can’t win that seat.
Kay
@Chris:
They finally threw out Brownback’s crackpot economic theories in Kansas. It took GUTTING their kid’s schools before they got it. They had to get hurt. Personally. Their children.
NotMax
@ruemara
It had a lead role but ascribing to it the part of sole deciding factor is both inadequate and inaccurate.
TenguPhule
@ruemara:
My point is that the Republicans appear to have Plans B, C and D all ready to go if Plan A (Vote Suppression & Manipulation) doesn’t pan out. There’s chaos all over the actual passing new legislation part, but their personal survival (in regards to political power) plans appear to be actually thought out.
TenguPhule
@Kay:
And it still took many years to get through to enough of them.
hovercraft
@Quinerly:
Yes in addition to “live tweeting” he’ll have allies? out there slamming Comey, and an allied group is running ads on the cable channels proclaiming him innocent and the greatest evah, while slamming Comey. The problem is as someone said this morning when you lie about the stupid little things where we can see you’re lying, people don’t believe you. I’m not sure which poll they cited but people by something like two to one believe the media more than they believe Twitler, and in the same poll they said they hated and didn’t trust the media. When you start your presidency lying about crowd sizes when everyone with eyes sees you’re lying, and then proceed to lie about everything else you have no credibility.
Emma
@TenguPhule: And what do you want us to do? Accept permanent second-class status? Become willing collaborators? Screw that. If you don’t want to at least try, Canada is a short hop away.
dww44
@Corner Stone: I’ve been wondering about him for some time. Then I looked into his background and understood why he’s carrying water for the GOP and Grump.
Chris
@Kay:
The thing is, I have no idea how to break the cycle. The post-1877 South shows us where the kind of mentality they’re currently at leads – white people simply continue to vote, over and over and over, for the same party that’s been screwing them and demanding nothing in return but a few token shows of tribal solidarity. Even the Great Depression didn’t change the mentality much. Except in states that have gone through serious demographic transformations, that’s still where they are to this day.
Chris
@Kay:
Have they? It’s still a Republican state.
Kay
@Chris:
Voters went from the cleanest, least corrupt, most flat-out ADMIRABLE President of my adult life to this shambling fucking wreck of a crook. That was self-indulgent and they will pay for it. That’s how this works. Actions have consequences.
Fleeting Expletive
Bohemian Rhapsody, play it for me…
eric
@Quinerly: that will play very very very very very very very very badly with the IC already leaking like a sieve. My god, the deluge would be unbelievable.
NotMax
@TenguPhule
The every dark cloud has a darker lining shtick is showing wear and tear.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat:
Well, Comey’s like 6’8″.
I suppose it’s time for that Ulysses S. Grant quote again.
germy
Nice Polite Republicans (NPR)
jl
Some of the comments above are related to why I think relentlessly criticizing, exposing and ridiculing Trump are important tasks in addition to GOTV and voter rights work. A massive imbalance in popular opinion against versus support for Trump will have consequences in terms of what they can get away with. They can issue orders, but beyond a certain point, stuff won’t get done. Or won’t get done in time. Or will get done in a pro forma way that has little effect.The lack of energetic execution of executive branch and congressional instructions will happen down the chain in federal state, and local law enforcement, actions of state and local governments.
Working on public opinion right now to send massive popular flak towards Congress is important, in order to slow them them down.
Edit: historical example I can think of right now is FDR’s unsuccessful attempt at Japanese internment in Hawaii. That was during a declared war under a very popular president. But local law enforcement and locally stationed military knew it would be a disaster. So orders just couldn’t be implemented right away, for a host or obscure and convoluted reasons, or no reason at all, folks were just very busy with ‘stuff’.
hovercraft
@Corner Stone:
While that is disappointing, we need to keep helping any way we can, because of gerrymandering most of the seats we are contesting next year will be up hill races. You can’t win it if you’re not in it, and there’s still a chance, a slim one, but a chance.
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: Comey is not in the government any more. This constant drumbeat of Rs are going to kill us all is wearying and achieves precisely the opposite effect that is needed to put up a strong fight.
Jeffro
LOL – Elle magazine’s article about Obama having dinner with Trudeau: Your Ex, Barack Obama, had an Intimate Dinner with Your Prom Date, Justin Trudeau
Not going to speculate how long Mrs. Jeffro pored over the pics before sending me the link…not healthy…
germy
In the 1970s, someone who had lost hope in humanity wrote a letter to E.B. White.
E.B. White replied:
Cheryl Rofer
@ArchTeryx: This is dangerous – see David Anderson’s post earlier today.
CALL. YOUR. SENATORS.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: Why? What plans are you going to make for this right now?
In the meantime I’m going to spend my time doing what I can within the system, and not bumming everyone out with worst-case scenarios.
guachi
In GA-6 in April, Democrats got 49.0% of the vote. In 2016, Clinton lost by 1.5%.
It just isn’t a good sign if Democrats can’t do better than either of those results. Sure, the Congressional races weren’t close but those never had any money for the Democrat. If Democrats lose by more than two points I’ll consider it a complete failure.
goblue72
@ruemara: Wilmer? Jesus, get over yourselves. You lost to the worst possible Presidential candidate in 100 years. Deal with it.
Or, keep making excuses for yourselves like Russia and Comey and emails and “voter machine hacking”. (JHC, what is this, 2004 all over again?) Instead of the fact, that instead of starting with an open filed, you lined up behind a candidate with the worst possible political instincts that she not only lost once but twice, because, you know, it was “her turn”. First losing to a junior senator with a relatively paper thin resume (who had spent a grand total of 2 years in Federal office before running for President While Black), and then second to a Human Fart Machine (after having spent months being chased around by cranky old Jewish socialist last seen at a Ben & Jerry’s grand opening in Burlington).
ruemara
@NotMax: Yes, it did. When you suppress several hundred thousand votes in key states and the underdog candidate wins by less than 100k votes, it did. I will not argue this point when over and over, key states had voter suppression tactics in effect going back to 2010.
@goblue72: Fuck off, nitwit. You’re part of the problem.
rikyrah
@ArchTeryx:
Yep. But, when Bill and Cindy’s Grandma and Grandpa have to start living with them because there’s no money for the nursing home…don’t whine.
NotMax
@germy
Good snippet. And a welcome breath of fresh air.
Aside: Doubt if half (or more) of youngsters today have ever wound a clock or know how to.
(Have an 1880s vintage key-wound pocket watch which I drag out for very special occasions. While pretty, too heavy and bulky for quotidian use.)
manyakitty
@Betty Cracker: That would be super helpful!
randy khan
@TenguPhule:
No. In this Administration, that’s a day that ends in a “y.”
rikyrah
Watch: The moment when women everywhere agreed with Sen Harris after she was interrupted by Burr who didn’t do the same w King & others pic.twitter.com/3KPAqwxVQl
— T. R. Ramachandran (@yottapoint) June 7, 2017
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: was just making a funny about him being tall.
TenguPhule
@Emma: What I’d like is to have some idea of how do you enforce a free and fair election’s results if the other side simply refuses to cooperate.
The problem I keep encountering is that our system was designed with the presumption that we are all rational adults who would usually comply and that rejections of the status quo would be few and far between.
Not an entire political party with almost complete control (relatively speaking) and willingness to bend or ignore all the rules.
Article 1, Section 6, Clause 1.
I can picture the Republicans abusing and distorting the hell out of this.
germy
@rikyrah: Must have been her “tone”
JPL
@guachi: Turnout for a runoff is different. I think the race will be hard to win because it’s a republican stronghold. I haven’t seen recent data, but there are a few good signs. Early voting in DeKalb looks strong (clinton won overwhelmingly there) and Cobb early voting was down. When I voted on Saturday, the group at the poll appeared to be bused in from North GA… My biases are showing.
goblue72
@guachi: I expect Dems to lose that race. It will be close, but they’ll lose. Older, suburban white homeowners are going to come home for Handel, because that’s what older, suburban white homeowners always do, and that demographic has much better turnout percentages, especially in off-year, off-cycle elections.
The voter coalition that the Democrats have assembled for themselves is not a winning one. And that DC Dems keep chasing older white suburban voters – who are NOT going to all of a sudden switch to Team Blue after a near lifetime voting GOP – is a problem. But they keep chasing those votes because those voters economic values align with the economic values of those who fund and run the Democratic party nationally.
Being an actual workers party is not on the table, because the people who cut the checks don’t want it that way.
At this point, only hope is holding out until the Boomer generation finally starts to die off en masse & pray white Millenials don’t start to trend more and more GOP as they get older.
randy khan
@goblue72:
[Deleted long comment because arguing with your wrongheaded posts is tedious.]
germy
Bobby Thomson
@goblue72: go.fuck.yourself.
jl
@goblue72:
” pray white Millenials don’t start to trend more and more GOP as they get older. ”
What is the GOP ever going to give the vast majority of those people that will make them ever give a shit about the GOP?
JPL
After this mornings hearings, I decided to take a nice walk. I’m only gone for an hour and Comey’s statement is released. After the NSA leak the other day by Reality, it’s going to be difficult for Trump to lift the sanctions against Russia. Now would be a good time to release those tapes.
Corner Stone
@germy: What special counsel? What is she talking about?
Chet Murthy
@goblue72: this shitbird is so, so, so much better with the pie filter.
goblue72
@JPL: Wouldn’t get too excited about early vote totals yet. Enthusiastic voters more likely to vote early. Amongst all voters in GA-6, Ossoff’s voters clearly seem the more enthusiastic. And quite possibly more likely to vote early. Doesn’t mean that the total # of voters will vote Ossoff. Ossoff could just as much be on track to loss in terms of total vote, but still lead in # of early votes.
germy
@Corner Stone:
Corner Stone
@JCJ: Man, I made it count. That was a damn fine cheeseburger.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
Its not a worst case scenario. True me, that would be a very different presentation.
This is something that we might have to convince the Democrats in Congress about. Otherwise they’re going to be caught flatfooted. Its a blind spot in our system. We rely on the prior norms that aren’t so reliable any more.
Our Democratic Senators and Representatives need to think about how they would enforce elections results if the GOP refuse to honor them. Do they work through State or Federal systems? What happens if Section 6 is used to defend against that enforcement? Must they rely on federal marshals from the court or is it a matter for police/FBI/national security? Does this place said enforcement in any legal quandary? What precedents, if any, could this set?
Cheryl Rofer
Lawfare, from the Brookings Institution, has been doing a great job of covering the Trump Presidency from a legal pov. Here are Benjamin Wittes’s first thoughts about the Comey testimony. (How does he write so fast?)
Also, an earlier post about what to expect in the Comey testimony.
goblue72
@ruemara: No – angry unwilling to look in the mirror Democrats like YOU are the problem. Too many Democrats still refuse to accept that they’ve been “doing it wrong” for a long, long time. Democrats have been losing since 1996. They have only two real wins – one with a once-in-a-generation charismatic outsider running for President. And once as a consequence of massive blowback against the incumbent party as a twin consequence of “waging most disastrous war in a generation” and “causing 1st depression in almost a century” – for which they managed to hold a solid majority for a grand sum of 2 election cycles (2006 and 2008)
That’s not winning. That’s losing. Systemically, institutionally, and repeatedly.
Archon
@goblue72: Making fun of Clinton for losing to Barack Obama, as if Obama was some inexperienced black dude with no political talents is why the left wing critique of the Democratic Party makes as much sense to me as the right wing critique.
The Moar You Know
@jl: The same thing that the GOP has, at least in my entire lifetime, given people who would otherwise have no reason to ever consider voting for them at all: an wonderful excuse for all their failures, and a wholly undeserved sense of superiority based on nothing more than the skin they were born in.
Don’t discount either one of those things, by the way. They’re both very potent drugs.
Bostondreams
@goblue72:
And what does it say about Sanders that HE lost to the what was apparently a horrible candidate because he was unable to appeal to a broad enough portion of the actual base of the Democratic Party?
Emma
@TenguPhule: Civil war. Assuming that EVERY state’s law enforcement and EVERY organ of the federal government, EVERYONE is going to throw in with the Republicans.
(edited) Look. History teaches us that there is always such as thing as the worst scenario. BUT we don’t have to accelerate into it.
goblue72
@Corner Stone: Robert Mueller.
Its Kamala Harris. She specializes in grand-standing, with occasional lapses into incoherence.
Quinerly
@germy:
Of interest: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/intel-committee-chair-cuts-off-kamala-harris-in-tense-exchange
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: Sadly, this is where we are at. I would like to see our elected folks start talking about this, very loudly and publicly. It’s overdue, because you and I both know, this is going to happen. Probably as soon as 2018.
Archon
@Bostondreams:
Black folks are on the democrat plantation, or something…
Bill E Pilgrim
@TenguPhule:
Quinerly
@rikyrah:
Bernie Bro on my Book of Faces feed went into an incoherent rant when she was questioning…”Who the fucking hell is this bitch?” Looks like he didn’t like her “tone.”?
Chris
@TenguPhule:
That’s what I want to know, but even more than that, I’d like to know how you enforce free and fair elections when the people who aren’t supposed to interfere in them do so brazenly and without consequence. Last November was the second time in sixteen years that an unelected body made a nakedly partisan decision to violate all of its own standards and ethics in order to simply award the election to their pony. We’re not Turkey or Iran; our system isn’t designed to have clerics or generals who simply step in and put their finger on the scales whenever they decide that the electoral process isn’t leading to a result they want. But that’s exactly what’s happened, twice already in my short lifetime. What the fuck are we supposed to do about that? Because from where I’m standing, I don’t see a solution to a game in which the goalposts will simply continue to shift no matter how well you line up your shots.
Emma
Fine. I give up. I am four years or so from retirement and I can retire to Mexico. Good luck everyone.
Especially to those who seem to specialize in moaning and bitching. Your predictions have come true. Enjoy.
aimai
@Bill E Pilgrim: They were farts, not golden showers.
Jeffro
ETA: I see Cheryl’s already linked to the Lawfare story…I’ve been a couple minutes behind her all day today! lol
Anyway, one funny excerpt:
dmbeaster
“I need loyalty, I expect loyalty.”
No surprise that this was in response to Comey’s remarks that he could always be relief upon to tell the orange shitgibbon the truth. Shitgibbon could care less about the truth.
jl
@The Moar You Know: If things keep going on the current track, the Millenniels will have a much more immediate excuse for their problems: GOP policies. Previous generations had nice things that the GOP would claim ‘those people’ would take away.
For a lot of younger people, when they hear about ‘those people’ who wouldn’t let them have nice things, the first thing they think about is the GOP.
aimai
@ruemara: Thank you for this. I look forward to seeing this front-paged. I wish you would become a full time front pager, as well.
Elie
@schrodingers_cat:
YAY! For saying this. This.This.This.
The fight has not even started…. It takes time to get down to the action level… No one should just give up and sink into a funk… Nope — not before the work actually starts…
randy khan
@Archon:
That would leave a mark if goblue had the slightest clue.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Jeffro:
If Trump did this people would be saying his level of discourse had gone up.
Jeffro
And one not-so-funny recommendation from Wittes at the end:
SFAW
@goblue72:
I take it, from your comments (if I’m parsing them correctly) that you’re an elected official — or at least, that you’ve recently run for office? Would that be a local race? (“Local” meaning a single town/village/whatever.) Or more regional? (e.g., state senator, or legislator for multiple towns/villages)
Yutsano
@goblue72: Oh FFS fuck off. She would eat you for lunch with a delicate silk napkin.
germy
So that’s what the satellite associates get for being loyal! Under the bus they go.
gwangung
@goblue72:
Out of a sample of HOW MANY? (And neglecting some Congressional wins?)
This is an argument that’s immeasurably more stupid than the least of the people you’re arguing against.
TenguPhule
@Emma: No, this is a very real problem. See, our founders didn’t make “non-compliance with election results” an actual crime. Nobody thought anyone that crazy would ever get close to power, apparently. Yes, the last time something like that happened we got the Civil War.
But I’d sorta like an alternative to that if its possible. So I’m asking, is that possible? Is there some way to cobble together some means of genuine enforcement that doesn’t involve the whole country falling part?
dww44
@randy khan: Yeah, I’m done with the negativity as well. We have to fight and resist and fight and resist. We can and will claw our way back into power and this time, we won’t waste the opportunity. We will pass legislation to circumvent what’s been happening, starting with ending the ability for the GOP to suppress voter turnout and figuring out how to undo their theft of the Garland SC seat, even if that means we re-institute the FDR era court packing scheme and combine with limited terms for SC justices. Take that weapon out of their hands.
In the meantime, we ALL should pick up the phone and call our Senators each and every day and protest this resurrected Senate version of the AHCA. We wear them down. Maybe this doesn’t change their votes, but they will pay in more ways than one.
In the short term can we please have a PRO ACA spokesperson on TV every time a GOP’er and Trump says that Obamacare is a failure.
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
At least you’ve finally unmasked yourself as the unrepentant racist we always knew you were.
Rob in CT
Re: Our Leftist Better troll, I find it amusing that he knows that older white suburbanites turn out to vote and then castigates Dem leaders for trying to appeal to those reliable voters.
Sadly, for a variety of reasons, the Dem coalition is full of people less likely to vote. Younger, poorer, fewer whites… and this creates a headwind.
Now I’ve nothing against trying to goose turnout rates, but people work on that in every election cycle. Nobody has figured out how to do it reliably – and anyone who tells you that “all you have to do is [my pet theory]” is full of shit. This isn’t simple, or easy. It’s really hard. Marginally attached voters – people who only show up sometimes – simply don’t pay much attention, don’t attach that much value to voting, and/or have real life barriers to voting. Reaching them and getting them to the polls is hard, and the thing that’ll do it will vary wildly from voter to voter.
TenguPhule
@The Moar You Know: I’m remembering Al Franken’s contested election. And that’s when the GOP didn’t have a lock on power. This time I suspect its going to be much much worse.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: Not helping man. some of us are out here trying to make a difference and you’re trying to bog everyone down with doomsaying.
TenguPhule
@Emma:
If you don’t plan to succeed, you’re planning to fail.
Peale
@Kay: My fear, as usual, is that independent voters will look at this and say “well, It’s the Democrats fault for letting this happen” and go back to voting for Republicans. Or imagining that sitting out elections will somehow send the Democrats a message about what they should pass.
goblue72
@Bostondreams: Its says he was a cranky, old socialist candidate who was never going to win the Presidency. (I voted for him in the primary, but with absolutely no expectations of him winning. Didn’t even want him to win. Wanted to send a message. Which message got ignored.)
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
Self-important White dude tells a Black woman she’s doing it wrong and what we really need to do is put white men in charge again.
In other words, a day that ends with Y.
Fair Economist
Before replying to trolls, remember that paid ones (and there are a lot these days) often get a bonus for replies to their comments. At least take out the reply tag.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@goblue72:
The oldest Boomers are 71, the youngest 53; you’re gonna have a long wait for that to happen.
ETA: Sure wait for that and ignore the problems that surfaced in the last election, ignore the elephant in the room and worry about the kitten. Idiot.
D58826
@Jeffro: What is at stake is whither, to borrow a phrase or two, whether or not ‘the government of the people, by the people, and for the people’ will survive.
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
Racist dudebro hates one of the most powerful Black (and Asian) women in California?
This is my shocked face. Who knew that a racist misogynist would hate Kamala Harris?
rikyrah
@Corner Stone: \
Mueller
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
Ignoring your flanks is never a good idea. I remember when Al Franken was first elected and the complete bullshit the Republicans threw up to deny him his seat as long as possible. And that’s when they didn’t have the power they have now.
If the Democratic party has not considered these possibilities and how to respond to them, we’re in more trouble then I thought.
jl
@TenguPhule: The state level founders did pass compulsory voting laws in some states that had very low turnout. Alexander Hamilton discussed it at the Constitutional Convention, and why it might be necessary for the whole country if turnout got too low.
Elections are run at the state level. You can go agitate for it in your state, and say the idea goes way back. It’s not some sinister foreign influence like the Australian ballot.
Mnemosyne
@gwangung:
Don’t forget, goracist supposedly lives and works in California, where the Democrats are a total failure since they only hold every statewide office plus a majority in the legislature.
Gelfling 545
@jl: You mean it’s…covfefe?
aimai
@TenguPhule: But talking about planning is neither one of those two–its literally nothing. Bitching and moaning about how other people need to plan is just bitching and moaning, and its tedious to boot.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: You didn’t answer my question- what would you have them do? Plan a rapid-action force in case Trump refuses to step down? Seriously, what should they do that isn’t going to sound nuts?
Cheryl Rofer
This, from @Fair Economist:
I’m new here and not sure what the requirements are for blocking. I will note that a number of countermeasures to tomorrow’s Comey testimony are being used. And surprise! A troll shows up on our thread about the same.
Don’t feed.
[None of my good emojis seem to be supported. Sad.]
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: You noticed that too? The tell for me was the need for a “new base”, and white millennials.
jl
@SatanicPanic: I just don’t know what to do. Nothing comes up under ‘bomb shelter’ on Amazon under Home Improvement.
D58826
@Cheryl Rofer: From the article :
Not that would be worth paying big bucks to see
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer:
The poop emoji doesn’t work, really realy SAD.
Morzer
@Corner Stone:
Are you so sure that white women love Karen Komen Fraudster Handel?
Mnemosyne
@Cheryl Rofer:
John makes the bar to ban people pretty high, and goracist is a long-term troll who loves to play leftier-than-thou from his high-rise ivory tower in San Francisco, where the homeless people who pee on his million-dollar house are so déclassé.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
Ideally, I’d like that they have a plan of action that at least provides some direction.
State or Federal court?
Attempt to get police/FBI/national security involved first/instead?
If a court case, what do they do if the GOP swear in their members to the House/Senate anyway?
(Remember, Congressional Immunity requires a felony to override, contempt of court is a gray area)
What do the House/Senate rules allow them to do? Can they appeal to the parlimenterian?
I don’t know the answers, but we need to start asking these questions.
Jeffro
@D58826: the GOP has made up its mind…they just put out a tweet implying there’s nothing to Comey’s statement…nothing to see here folks, move along.
I encourage any/all elected Dems on these intelligence committees to get mad, grab a mic, and start laying out everything for the American people, all of it. History will call you a hero.
TenguPhule
@D58826:
This will be a campaign promise of the TenguPhule/Baud Administration.
Cheryl Rofer
@?BillinGlendaleCA: That is SERIOUS! We’ll have to get Alain The Site Fixer on it immediately!
Mnemosyne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
?
jl
@Mnemosyne: That looks like an unhappy scoop of chocolate soft serve ice cream.
This blog needs more convincing poop emojies.(more ‘full service blog’ fail, IMHO).
The Moar You Know
@SatanicPanic: Can’t speak for Tengu and am not a lawyer, but it seems that Dems have quite a few lawyers – some really good ones, even – and that even a draft plan for a response to a stolen election would be a great starting point. Unless you don’t think the GOP members of the Supreme Court would intervene in a presidential election and place their candidate of choice in the Oval Office. Or GOP senators would hold a Supreme Court seat open for years until they can get it filled to their liking. Or hold off on seating a Senator for almost a year. If you think those things can’t happen then I guess there’s no need to do anything.
Quinerly
Looks like it’s Gingrich and Giuliani’s PAC behind the anti Comey ad campaign: http://crooksandliars.com/2017/06/attack-ad-against-comey-team-trump-no
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: This is all stuff that would sound nuts to the average voter. I think there’s an outside chance it might happen, but the risk of talking about this aloud is that it makes it becomes self-fulfilling prophecy. The media would accuse Democrats of planning on doing it themselves. And none of it would be useful in the event that it actually happened. Like, appeal to the parliamentarian? What’s she going to do?
D58826
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/872529336825499648
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know: Of course they could do this. But I think we all know the answer for what would have to happen in that situation, and that’s not something the Democrats would want to talk about. I mean, if Trump is holed up in the WH refusing to leave, are lawyers going to get him out? yeah, right.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@D58826: the “tapes” tweet sure as shit looked like an attempt to intimidate a witness
jl
@SatanicPanic: I think your point is that recommending we get ready for irregular partisan warfare out in the hills and valleys of these great United States, or hunker down in our backyard hardened defensible bunkers is a bit premature. Which is all a certain commenter has to offer, other than counsels of despair.
Anyway, I’ll go see if Amazon has a building supply section. Maybe they are selling fire base and bunker kits there.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
Al Franken’s Election was in 2008.
It builds the foundation for legal/popular challenge. Setting the narrative, if you will. For whatever course of action comes next. it’s something the Republicans have used to great effect against us.
Emma
@TenguPhule: You’re not planning a thing. You’re just throwing out scenarios and bleating about the end of the world.
In some ways, I am actually much more pessimistic than you are. I know all empires end — usually slowly and through a long decline. But something always rises out of the broken crockery — we might not recognize it but there will be something. HOWEVER, there’s no reason to give up trying to salvage as much as we can from the wreckage.
SatanicPanic
@jl: exactly. We don’t want to look bananas like some Louis Gohmert of the left.
Mnemosyne
@jl:
What do you mean, “unhappy”? It has a big smile on its face!
TenguPhule
@jl:
If your only two options are “everything works fine” and ” irregular partisan warfare”, you’re doing it wrong.
jl
@TenguPhule: Then seriously discuss what they are doing now, like plans voter suppression,and partisan legislative tyranny in passing bills and holding hearings. The lawyers can be your friend in that venture.
You sound like a lefty Democrat Sovereign Citizen, we should get ready to liberate a wildlife refuge or local national guard headquarters. That isn’t very helpful in persuading anyone right now.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
If Republicans in Congress decide simply to reseat themselves by ignoring a contested vote, what’s the legal authority to stop them?
jl
@TenguPhule:
” If your only two options are “everything works fine” and ” irregular partisan warfare”, you’re doing it wrong. ”
This is the oddest game of 20 questions I have ever played.
@TenguPhule: OK, so irregular partisan civil warfare is out, and ‘hey, everybody, let’s rush Capitol Hill’ is in? Keep us posted on your plans, Colonel.
Mike in DC
Kamala Harris is an accomplished former prosecutor and was the CA AG. I’d expect her questioning to be aggressive, persistent and on point. Which it was.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: I dunno, what?
TenguPhule
@jl:
I have. Its just a more extreme version of Calvinball from 2002-2004 & 2010 to now. They’re going to make up new rules as they go along and IOIYAR. We can make and win cases in court, but enforcement is the tricky bit. As I keep saying, the system wasn’t designed for what’s happening and too many people are refusing to think it through when its happening right now.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic: That’s my point.
There’s no law that prevents them from doing just that. None.
Mnemosyne
@Mike in DC:
Broflakes in California (and across the country, apparently) hate Harris because she’s a strong Black/South Asian woman. She makes their little peepees shrivel in fear.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
The only person here claiming that those are the only two options is you, dude.
TenguPhule
@jl: “Hey, we’ve got a court order, but we’re facing a legally immune body of government that can potentially ignore it without consequences. How do we address this problem?”
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: I know! The idea of Comey trying to blend in with the blue drapes in the WH was really funny!
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne: Not really. I was thinking that maybe, just maybe it would be nice not to be caught flatfooted by yet more Republican overreach and not have everything blow up around us.
Emma
@jl: I’m starting to think we have some old-style FBI infiltration-and-provocation going on here.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
Except that the scenarios you’re ranting about are impossible to guard against, even if we wanted to.
Stop thinking about the double backflip the Republicans might do and think about what we should do.
TenguPhule
@Emma: I’m starting to think you’re listening to the voices in your head instead of what other people are saying.
You and jl are the one’s bringing up end of the world and warfare here in this thread, not me.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: Then I guess we can’t do anything about it right now.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
No, you’re the one screeching about crazy “what ifs” with no basis in reality.
If Republicans in Congress refuse to leave after being voted out, then it’s civil war. Full stop. There are no other options. So why even bring it up?
The Moar You Know
@TenguPhule: Fuck. I don’t agree with you on a lot but the refusal to even consider how to deal with what you’re discussing – which is a real thing that has already happened and will happen again – is just incredibly demoralizing.
Dems are Charlie Brown and the GOP is Lucy, and Charlie’s insisting that THIS TIME, Lucy’s gonna hold the ball like she promised. And all the people yelling at him “don’t do it, man, she’s just gonna yank the ball again!” is being met by shrugs.
I don’t know how you fix a party this broken. It’s not even that we won’t fight back, we won’t even talk about fighting back.
SatanicPanic
@Mnemosyne: Or People Power! Something like that. We know Tengu is jonesing for a civil war so I don’t know why he’s being coy here.
randy khan
@SatanicPanic:
No, but the Secret Service will, and probably very efficiently, once a new President is sworn into office. They will no longer work for him.
Corner Stone
@Morzer: Yes.
SatanicPanic
@The Moar You Know: I keep repeating this, but have you been paying attention in 2017? Tengu isn’t talking about Republicans playing hardball- Democrats have been doing a good job of standing up to them this year. He’s talking about stuff like them not respecting the results of the election. We know what they can do about that- nothing. Then it becomes our job.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
Why would it be Civil War as the only option?
If the Democrats could convince the FBI that such actions were a potential felony, it would override legal immunity and a brave enough team of agents could in theory make arrests. Mind you, it would set an awful precedent and require a really good presentation by the Democrats in Congress and a lot more guts then we’ve ever seen out of the FBI, but it could work in theory.
Or perhaps using the Oath of Office’s own words as a legal basis for intervention.
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
It is hardball, taken to its logical conclusion in escalation. If you can’t bear to think about it, how do you expect to muster any popular support against it?
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic:
And I challenge that “well known fact”.
Mnemosyne
@The Moar You Know:
He’s talking about Republicans refusing to leave office after being voted out and occupying the Capitol building.
If that happens, it’s civil war, and there’s nothing the Democrats could possibly do to stop it. You’re basically saying it was the Union’s fault that the Confederates fired on Fort Sumter, because they should have done more to stop the Confederates from seceding.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule: So you want us to start planning for how we’d influence the FBI right as we’re trying to hold the President accountable for trying to influence the FBI?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl:
Corporal is more like it, you know who else was a corporal.
SatanicPanic
@TenguPhule:
Me: I think there’s an outside chance it might happen
You: If you can’t bear to think about it
TenguPhule
@SatanicPanic: If the Republicans breach the norms that much, Democrats could make a compelling case for intervention. It’s a double edged sword, but it could be done.
And if you’re going to call “making a case for why an action is a crime that needs to be stopped” as influencing the FBI, well that’s your interpretation of it.
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
Because if the Republicans are emboldened to the point of outright ignoring election results and refusing to leave office, that’s a civil war. That’s firing on Fort Sumter. Our system will have irretrievably broken down into warring factions. There will be no legal options left, because our system of government will be dead.
Stop dreaming up apocalyptic scenarios and then trying to pretend that’s not what they are. You’re basically saying, Okay, but what if Trump drops a nuke on Los Angeles? Then the FBI would arrest him, right?
jl
@SatanicPanic:
” He’s talking about stuff like them not respecting the results of the election. ”
Doing everything to mobilize public opinion is important for forestall that eventuality, and even more important for a lasting remedy should that eventuality come to pass.
If I understand TenguPhule correctly (and I suppose I will be informed that I do not), trying to persuade some FBI agents to play irregular self-appointed SWAT team at the WH doesn’t seem promising to me.
But this game has gotten very tiresome, so I’m turning in my pieces and all my game money.
So, we agree. I am just amplifying your point. So, now I’m checking Amazon Home Patio and Garden for civic emergency supplies. Maybe something there.
SiubhanDuinne
This won’t sound on topic, but it is.
This afternoon, for the first time in my life, I saw The Godfather.
jl
@Mnemosyne:
” Okay, but what if Trump drops a nuke on Los Angeles? Then the FBI would arrest him, right? ”
Way back in the day, that might get Northern California on Trump’s side. But that rivalry is very passe now.
SatanicPanic
@jl: yeah, I’m over it. This is silly. We’ll cross this bridge when we get there.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
If the vote is close enough, they can run a “he said, she said” with the media and just seat their candidate. Most of the votes in R seats we’re trying to flip in 2018 are going to be very close.
SatanicPanic
@jl: That has been one good thing about the Trump admin- California feels more united now.
Miss Bianca
@ruemara: word. sorry as hell to note that all that you say is true.
randy khan
It’s important to understand that there are significant constraints on what the Republicans can do if elections go badly for them. Things like terms of office are Constitutional – they end when they end – and there are strong institutional forces that will make it difficult to ignore inconvenient election results, including the courts. I mentioned the Secret Service above as an example – they are more aware than anyone that the old President stops being President at noon on Inauguration Day and the new President becomes President – but they’re hardly the only ones in similar positions. (And it’s worth noting that, while tradition has the Chief Justice swear in the President, the Vice President swear in Senators, etc., actually practically public official can do it. LBJ was sworn in by a Texas judge after Kennedy died.)
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
No, they can’t. Elections have to be certified by the state where they take place. Even when Franken’s election was contested, the seat stayed empty until the legalities were resolved.
If you’re saying that Republicans will ignore the results of a certified election and refuse to leave office, that’s civil war. End of story.
sm*t cl*de
That documentary “Fail-Safe” showed that sometimes nuking your own city is necessary to convince the Russians of your good faith. It’s the Presidential thing to do.
Quinerly
Best read of the last 48 hours. I have decided to be hopeful. But, oh God, then we will have to survive a Pres Pence: http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/06/07/trump-could-very-well-get-impeached-by-the-republicans/
D58826
So on Nicole Wallace today, Gov. Christie says that the three intelligence guys have no constitutional requirement to answer questions put to them by an oversight committee of Congress. So if that is the case why would any administration official appear before a congressional committee.
TenguPhule
@jl:
Congress is generally shielded from the law while acting in their role. To override that protection they have to have committed treason, a felony or breach of the peace.
In 2018, elections promise to be very close even with the wave of outrage and frustration.
We saw in 2008 what lengths the GOP was willing to go to in order to deny an elected D a seat with even a flimsy excuse and they’ve only gotten more extreme since then.
Contempt of Court is a gray area of law, not normally regarded as a felony.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
Yes. But that was when we had control of Congress. If the election result is tied up in court, there is no law that prevents the GOP from seating their member other then contempt of court. Which is a question that has never been tested before.
Morzer
@SatanicPanic:
Man, that comparison to Gohmert’s gotta leave a mark. Chapeau!
MJS
@SiubhanDuinne: On the big screen? I did, on Sunday. It was great. Much better than the 1500 or so times I saw it on TV
Chris
@Quinerly:
My preference would be a slow-motion trainwreck that doesn’t give out until 2020, but is enough to make Democrats do well in 2018 and win in 2020.
Of course, if the universe cared about my preferences, Trump wouldn’t be in the White House to begin with.
Morzer
@SiubhanDuinne:
I can’t imagine that anyone could see a parallel between the life of a crime family and the current denizens of the White House.
patroclus
The released testimony is pretty clear evidence of obstruction of justice in the Mike Flynn case. The problem though is that the Republicans are just going to partisanize the analysis and it won’t be treated as obstruction of justice; instead, it will just be treated as, like Chris Christie said, “New York” style banter. And Comey’s hedging about it only being an inexperienced President not knowing how to talk to the DOJ and the FBI plays into that. So, for at least the next 18 months, while this is blockbuster evidence, it won’t be treated as blockbuster evidence. Which is similar to way the Watergate evidence was treated for over a year – John Dean’s 6/73 testimony was similarly partisanized until the “smoking gun” evidence was released in 8/74 with the USSC verdict in the U.S. v. Nixon case. The difference is that the Republicans control the Congress and will continue to do so for at least 18 months, so no impeachment hearings or inquiry will be held until after (and if) they lose control. So, unless other stuff comes out, we’re going to have 18 months or so (at least) of partisanized warfare on the obvious obstruction of justice which won’t be treated as all that obvious.
This isn’t necessarily bad because it’ll keep Trump on the defensive, but it won’t have any resolution, so that is bad.
Jack the Second
Did goblue ever have any actual critiques or has it always been what I see in this thread? The vague “You People are doing it wrong”, “Democrats are losers”, “Clinton sucks”, “We should send a message”, etc etc etc, without any actual statements about what we’re doing wrong our should be doing instead or what message we’re trying to send?
different-church-lady
Does lunch consist of… POPCORN?
Mnemosyne
@TenguPhule:
State elections are regulated by the states, including House and Senate elections. If Republicans flout state law and seat themselves, that’s civil war.
Again: you are predicting actions that will lead to outright civil war and pretending that’s not what will happen. Knock it off.
Mnemosyne
@Jack the Second:
He’s very, very concerned that we’re not listening to the economically anxious white working class, and we need to stop pandering to women and minorities to get the WWC’s votes back.
That’s why he’s an object of mockery here now.
chopper
@Jack the Second:
it’s always like this.
Elie
@patroclus:
While I don’t disagree with the content of what you say, I just believe that the overall landscape of his performance in office is going to exacerbate the need to get rid of him. Everything he touches comes apart. Our foreign policy is a fucking dangerous disaster heading for dangerous opportunities for catastrophe. We are not in calm waters with this guy in some sort of safe isolation. He is a rogue actor who more quickly than even his current protectors think is going to HAVE to be removed unless they want self destruction. They just wanted power and money. Not to kill themselves and what is left of this country. There will be no choice or avoiding the chaos that will result.
chopper
@goblue72:
if you voted for someone who you didn’t even want to see win, the message you sent was ‘i’m an idiot’. so far, it appears that that message was not at all ignored.
Jack the Second
@Mnemosyne: Listening to them say what? I’ve seen many screeds about listening to the WWC but never anything about what concrete proposals the WWC favors.
J R in WV
@ruemara:
“Fuck off, nitwit. You’re part of the problem.”
Well said. All your commentary today is excellent. Keep up the good work!!
SiubhanDuinne
@Oatler.:
Did a huge foot come down and squish everything?
SiubhanDuinne
@Jeffro:
Sounds red-bloodedly American healthy to me.
SiubhanDuinne
@JPL:
From different congressional districts, i.e. not eligible to vote in the 6th? If you are serious, I hope you reported it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Quinerly:
I was listening to bits and pieces of the hearings in the car, on MSNBC (Sirius XM). I heard that exchange but couldn’t figure out who the Senator was. Knew from the voice it wasn’t Feinstein or Collins, but am so far not familiar enough with Harris’ voice to recognise it, and of course no video of the name signs to provide identification.
Then I got to the movie theatre, went to watch The Godfather (which has wildly appropriate parallels to the Trump administration, but that’s a separate conversation), and forgot about it until now.
Steve in the ATL
@Jack the Second:
goblue sometimes says things that are reasonable, even insightful. His overall body of work, however, is such that most posters here reflexively dismiss everything he says. Which is not an unreasonable response.
SiubhanDuinne
@goblue72:
Funny, I would have sworn that Bill Clinton, Democrat, won reelection in 1996.
SiubhanDuinne
@MJS:
Yup, the Fathom Events TCM Big Screen encore. I don’t know how I’d managed to live to almost age 75 without ever having seen it, but I did. It was very powerful, and as I alluded to in my comment, there was (for me) a lot of resonance with the current occupant of the WH and his family and “family.”
SiubhanDuinne
@Morzer:
Well, you have to understand, I had not ever seen the movie, so the parallels kind of jumped up and smacked me in the face.
zhena gogolia
@SiubhanDuinne:
Did you see Godfather II? It’s even better.
But I can’t stomach them any more. Still, they’re great movies.
dww44
@Rob in CT: I agree that it’s hard. As one who’s done phone banking and knocking on doors for Democrats starting in 2008 and going on thru 2016 , I’ve decided that the MOST effective way to GOTV is to actually have enough bodies to knock on doors consistently and persistently, beginning well ahead of an election.
Phone banking is far more likely to irritate the callee than showing up on a Sunday afternoon, say, and asking for that person’s support at the polls. A campaign just needs enough boots on the ground to saturate the voters, and it should be married to an all out registration effort ahead of that. With the demise of landlines phone banking lists have become largely unreliable.
J R in WV
@Jack the Second:
He’s a troll. It is what it is.