Quinnipiac has a new poll out on Trump. I am confounded by a subset of people:
President Donald Trump did something illegal in his relationship with Russia, 31 percent of American voters say, while another 29 percent say he did something unethical, but not illegal, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today. The president did nothing wrong, 32 percent of voters say.
President Trump’s campaign advisors did something illegal in dealing with Russia, 40 percent of voters say, as 25 percent say they did something unethical but not illegal and 24 percent say they did nothing wrong.
The president’s job approval rating dips to a new low, a negative 34 – 57 percent, compared to a negative 37 – 55 percent in a May 24
So 60% of the public think he did something personally fishy with Russia. 65% of the public think his inner circle did something fishy with Russia. And yet only 57% of the country disapproves of his performance. So there are at least 3% of the country who think he is doing a good job and he is up to his eyeballs with Russia in at least an unethical manner. Who are those people?
Common clay of the new west?
Being unethical isn’t the shock it used to be, I guess.
“Independents” AKA morons.
West of the Rockies (been a while)
Oh, I’m guessing they “really don’t like confrontation… can’t we just move on?”
Obligatory West Wing post.
I’m a Boston Celtics fan. I know for a fact that since they signed Bill Russell back in 1954, the Celtics have either won or deserved to win the NBA title. If they didn’t win, it was the fault of poor officiating. This is why Roger Ailes treated news like sports. Also, too many of us think everyone follows politics as closely as we do.
Это курам на смех
Here is what H.L. Mencken had to say about William Jennings Bryan. Substitute “Trump” for “Bryan” and it’s a perfect match.
Donald Trump went on national television and asked the Russians to fuck around in the American election on his behalf. On. National. Television.
It may not come to light, but there is no fucking way in hell that there’s nothing there.
I think you are confusing Trump supporters with the don’t knows. If 34 percent approve of his job, and 32 think he did nothing wrong, that’s two percent, which has little significance in this kind of poll. On the other hand, nine percent is a lot of don’t knows for a Presidential job approval poll. Methinks there is your body of former Trump supporters who can’t bring themselves to cut the cord completely.
Jack the Second
+/- 2% is the standard margin of error. I would assume that the 3% is lost in the error between those two questions and that Trump’s core supporters both heartily approve of him and that he’s as pure as driven snow.
I am not really surprised that a poll reveals a small slice of the population who are confused and self-contradictory in their responses to it. I suspect that if you dig down in most polls, you’ll find similar clusters of apparently schizophrenic voters. People are complex and far from wholly rational – and a lot of the time they are barely paying attention to what goes on in the faraway world of Washington. I do wonder if 32% might turn out to be the floor for Trump/GOP support.
9% would match quite well with the slice of the strongly approving group of Trump supporters that seem to have left that category in recent polling, although we don’t know where they went. Don’t know would seem as good a bet as any.
@Это курам на смех:
Huh. I always pictured Bryan more as a Sandersesque figure than a Trumpian one, which admittedly isn’t exactly a compliment coming from me, but I didn’t think he was the comprehensive trainwreck that Trump (or the conservatives of the era) was.
Anyone got a link to a current version of the Pie Filter or Troll-B-Gone for Chrome? I’ve had way past my fill of a few cretins here and I won’t go back to Firefox for other reasons.
That’s with the margin of error of those stats. It’s just noise.
@TenguPhule: probably right, but this is less fun
The line about white women increasingly disliking Trump makes me think that Karen Handel shouldn’t be too sure that they are going to the polls in Georgia to vote for her. They might just be intent on giving Trump a kicking.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
I can only guess that they just don’t give a shit if he breaks the law, as long as he’s one of them, and is breaking the law for the right reasons. That’s all I can come up with.
FYI, I’m getting a site server certificate error telling me it’s unsafe. Alain may want to check to see if it’s expired. I can’t use the menu to email anyone.
Ordinary, patriotic Americanskis, dahlink.
Interesting, I said to myself. Interesting.
BTW, a bar in DC that’s open for Comey’s testimony tomorrow is giving drinks on the house for every Trump tweet during the proceedings. David Waldman of Daily Kos tweeted “ambulances will be standing by!”
Beyond the margin of error, how the question was worded and what the questions before and after were could influence that handful. I know surveys and polls I’ve responded to sometimes make me feel that way, and I know what my thoughts are. For people, who don’t make distinctions based on words, well there can be drift.
Or they are Morans!
It might be quicker just to flood the street with alcohol and hand out dippers.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Это курам на смех: I think that’s unfair to Bryan. The monkey trial ruined his reputation, but he was a pretty good guy. Mencken was a racist asshole who had utter contempt for almost everybody. It’s no shock that he had only awful things to say about somebody who did care about working people.
I can’t find it at the moment, but after Deepwater Horizon blew, there was a poll asking how it affected people’s opinion of offshore drilling. The takeaway was that 90% of people either made them like it less or it had no effect on their opinion. Both of those are internally consistent answers depending on one’s cost/benefit analysis.
10% said the disaster made them support offshore drilling more. It’s just assholes gaming polls, nothing more.
well Dave, he’s got a couple of things going for him…
1) he’s anti-establishment… so a number of people think he just what the system needs, a shock
2) he’s a Republican doing Republican things, namely pissing off liberals… so there
3) he’s rich – and therefor gets a pass because that means he’s “smart and successful”
4) he’s a racist – so those that have that trait will see him as a kindred spirit
5) he’s a caricature of “strength” – so he meets the criteria for those that long for the older system of gender roles
mix in these variables in whatever strength you wish and you have a nice pile of folks that are willing to let this asshole get away with damn near anything because… reasons.
Plus, Comey asked Sessions to protect him from any more one on ones with Trump. Hope that comes out tomorrow too.
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
Bryan turned to Christian fundamentalism after 1920, which probably explains his involvement in the monkey trial. Before that, he was very much an anti-elite populist and enemy of big banks and big business. Not the worst place to be.
@JMG: I want some Senator to read Trump’s Tweets to Comey and ask him to respond in real-time. And then Trump will, of course, issue some even more insane and intemperate Tweet in response. To which Comey should be asked to respond…
Unbounded positive feedback loops are fun!
If you take the 65 percent who believe someone in the administration has done something that is at least unethical and compare that to the disapproval rate of 57 percent, that leaves 8 percent in the questionable category.
If you assume a Crazification Factor of 27 percent and also assume that within that group, there’s a similar proportion of members who are Double-Crazy (27 percent of the original 27 percent), you get 7.29 percent.
And that’s the answer to your question, “Who are these people?”
@SatanicPanic: But negating their entire existence from reality is worth it!
65% of people think something’s fishy with the Russians, and 34% approve of Trump. That’s 99%. It is statistically possible that there are 8-9% of people who were neutral on approval but think something is fishy. It is also possible that it’s less than that and some people approve of Trump despite the fishiness, or that some people disapprove of Trump despite thinking Russia is bunkum.
Averaging sites like 538 lag, but even there, the approval-disapproval spread 1.5 points since Saturday.
They should express remorse. After all, it’s because of them that THIS CLOWN is President.???
@Morzer: WHAT THE FUCK WERE THESE WHITE WOMEN THINKING BACK IN NOVEMBER?!?
@hellslittlestangel: You know: morons.
@catfishncod: you missed the people who like Trump because he’s fishy!
@Tim C.: lots of people don’t like shrimp or are allergic to it. Getting rid of that industry for a few months was met with cries of joy.
@different-church-lady: Hillary baggage. A generation of slander and libel worked. It may be best for Dem presidential nominees to come from (figurative, at least) left field. They’ll still get villified, but short-term it’s less likely to have an effect, I guess, on some voters. On the Dems=Pelosi=Hollywood/San Francisco/New York values voters, they’re lost to team D forever. But they’re morans, and probably short-timers, demographically speaking.
mai naem mobile
@Morzer: 9 times is a lot especially if you consider that Dolt should have been very busy doing other stuff like making appointments. You would think you wouldn’t bother Comey being that he was supposed to be committed to a 10 year term, after an initial one or two meetings getting Dolt caught up on anything important.
From what I’ve seen: “baybeez.” They were thinking that Trump was going to outlaw abortion, and nothing else, including the prospect of their own born children losing health insurance, was more important to them.
And they had a whole lot of fundie preachers telling them that they would go to Hell if they voted for baby-killer Hillary and Trump wasn’t so bad anyway.
mai naem mobile
@different-church-lady: umm, they were thinking that all these brown people had gotten too big for their britches and Dolt was da man to take care of that.
And Trump has grown theologically before our eyes. He now knows that Presbyterians are Christians!
I’d say they’re Republicans who self-identify as shitlords, those kind of people.
Casey Cagle who is running for GA governor recently praised Trump for the cultural changes that have occurred since his election. Maybe he was polled.
You can’t fool all of the people all of the time, but you can fool enough of the people enough of the time.
-Lawyers at big firms that believe aggressive PR is as important as the law. (See Catholic Church)
-Shady developers, same. Also add threats, fraud and payoffs to repertoire.
They understand illegal and unethical acts, and they approve of using them to defeat opponents, especially the gov’t.
Surprised you didn’t say “Is Moose and Squirrel, dahlink!”
June Foray will turn 100 in a little over three months, by the way.
You can’t fool all of the people all of the time, but a lot of people don’t even need to be fooled.
@Morzer: I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some women going to the polls who were quite unimpressed when she wrecked a high-profile cancer foundation just to try to stick it to Planned Parenthood out of bitter spite.
Whomever they are, I hate them.
Um, technically, he was told that. It does not mean he knows it, as his grasp of facts — commensurate with his hand size — has proved.
@different-church-lady: “Pish. I’m not black. Screw them, I want a tax cut.”
SOMEONE PUT A LIFE MONITOR ON HER PLEASE!!!
I know time gets us all but dammit she’s a fucking treasure!
That’s my view. Combined with Trump, it might be enough to sink Handel.
Ella in New Mexico
I’d say this represents the fact that the average folks are tuning out a lot of the news, including the Russia-gate stuff because it’s too confusing and overwhelming. They aren’t offering many facts or evidence at this point on most mainstream media outlets they watch, and worse yet, Fox, when it’s not talking about completely unimportant crap, is actively propagandizing disinformation and falsehoods to its viewers.
If you’re not obsessively following the agonizing and incredible citizen and professional journalism on Twitter, you probably don’t realize your President is a God-damned traitor and criminal, and so are his spawn, his son-in-law, and most of the people who work for him. And believe it or not, most people in this country are not on Twitter.
One thing–I do think the Comey testimony is gonna melt the scales off a lot of people’s eyes. It’s plain as day what President Shithead did, repeatedly. The only ones that will defend him after that will be the Trumpcult 25%’rs.
He didn’t ask the Russians to interfere. He asked them to recover the 30,000 emails Hillary “bleached” out of her server.
That’s a big difference.
=/Fox News Fembot
@Ella in New Mexico:
I wish I agreed with you, but I think the Comey stuff will be fairly dull in the way it comes across and there won’t be anything so obvious that it makes people sit up and notice – unless they follow politics regularly.
Mobs don’t think.
If you really want to know who those people are, just go on Facebook and look at the pages for any member of the Trump family, Trey Goudy, Ted Cruz etc. Then look at the responses to timeline posts and you will find the absolute dregs of humanity, the same people who write love letters to Charles Manson and other mass murderers. Several of my relatives are among these pathetic morons.
New Hilbert Space poll has Trump’s popularity at 123%!
IMHO Osoff is playing this very smart. He’s not talking about Dolt45 very much at all. Instead he is lightning focused not only on Handel but also the needs of the district. I haven’t heard her mention ONE thing about what she will do for the people of the district other than support the Hairy Yam. Osoff is laying out plans and getting very specific. And he’s getting out there. Recognition can be huge in local races like this.
Now it’s time for the rest of that money to get him over the finish line. Time to get every vote to the polls we can for him.
It helps that Handel has publicly opposed a livable wage. Amazingly stupid.
Those are all the “But look at all the terrible things that Obama and Clintons did” dudes with no sense of shame and no sense of perspective. I wonder how these dudes get dressed in the morning without strangling themselves on their own clothing. If they are really as ignorant as they pretend to be, they cannot possibly be carrying out daily functions required of humans.
So Shaw’s Tavern in DC is having a viewing party for the Comey testimony called the Comey Covfefe.
They use Depend-able clothing.
@Yutsano: I’m hearing that Ossof is not courting the black vote. In fact, I’m hearing a lot of unhappiness from the folks that voted for Hilz at 94% and are reliable workers for the DNC. I myself can say I was called 4x by not just black women, but Jamaican black women, during the presidential campaign. If the DNC is fucking over black women and Ossof thinks that WWC vote is what’s going to put him over, yeah, this won’t end well.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
There are too many people a-OK giving the country away to the Russians rather than have to share it with “those people”. I don’t think we’ll ever have another legitimate election, and I don’t think if you told these supporters that, it would bother them much.
What does it mean when you say he isn’t courting the black vote? What isn’t his campaign doing?
Losing her will be bad but not unexpected. Much like Peter Sallis.
Bill E Pilgrim
The American voter
@chopper: One lives next door to me.
@ET: I just read this about the Union Pub: TOMORROW: We open at 9:30AM & buying a round of drinks for the house every time Trump Tweets about Comey during his testimony! This “special” will run til Comey’s testimony is over, or 4pm, whichever is earlier.
You guys have all the fun.
@ruemara: John Lewis was campaigning with him last weekend.
Steve in the ATL
I’ve lived in this district for 17 years and I believe that the number of minds changed by her disgusting statement will be a rounding error.
@Steve in the ATL:
It’s still a stupid thing to do though. Especially in an age when people are seeing their pay and hours squeezed.
@Morzer: Events and outreach. Not as much time spent on those votes. Mind you, we’re a near lock, but I was surprised to hear that as feedback. But I’m wondering if this isn’t more of a general dissatisfaction with the DNC response to black voters after 2016.
WHAT THE FUCK WERE THESE WHITE WOMEN THINKING BACK IN NOVEMBER?!?
0. I don’t like gay people, or black people, or Mexicans, and Muslims scare me, and I’ve never met a Hindu. Make them all go away.
1. I’m a Republican first and foremost. Democrats are icky socialists who want to tax and regulate.
2. Hillary is too assertive, and dishonest, and benghazi, and emails, and is not enough of a daddy to make me feel safe
3. I’m anti-abortion; open SCOTUS seat + Republican President => Gorsuch => the end of Roe vs Wade
I won’t say you’re not hearing that, but this guy worked for and was enthusiastically endorsed by John Lewis. Remember one of the tools the other side has is distorting social media.
But her emails!!!
I do agree that Democrats do take the black vote for granted and that should not be the case.
On the other hand, I can’t help but suspect a ratfucking operation in all this. We know that black voters were specifically targeted by Republican organizations online and on Facebook with shit about Hillary in order to drive down turnout. I can’t believe they wouldn’t play this same card during this election as it was marginally successful.
People who think Hillary would have been worse.
I’d also be curious how many of the people saying that can be confirmed as living in the district. Ossoff is a former staffer for John Lewis, so it seems odd that he would ignore the voters he’s been working with and for.
I know there’s a fair amount of resentment over what Perez has been doing to court Wilmer’s voters, so I wonder if there’s some bleed over from that.
Plus, don’t forget, one of the hotbeds of Wilmerism here in CA is Oakland, so it’s not like Black folks are totally immune to his siren call.
Steve in the ATL
@Mnemosyne: Perez has disappeared from public view, hasn’t he? Or maybe the cirque de trump is sucking all the oxygen out of the room.
? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?
@ruemara: In Ohio, some party leaders were seriously suggesting running Jerry Springer for Governor! I shit you not! Idiots are learning the wrong lessons from the election. Fighting voter ID by getting everyone an ID, registering voters, and aggressively running for every office is what should be done, not running your own dumbass reality tv star
Nixon got re-elected in the middle of Watergate. So voters are just as dumb now as they were then.
@? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?: Jerry Springer was the mayor of a fairly big city* IIRC. Don’t just judge him from his show, which I have never tuned into, but Springer is well spoken and made a good impression on me when I saw him interviewed. So more qualified than T.
*According to the intertoobz it was Cincinnati.
There is not insubstantial portion of the population that perceives the leadership of the country in BOTH PARTIES as being hypocrites and liars who are running a rigged system. They think people who believe there is the possibility of fairness in the system are the ones who are fools. Thus, when evidence comes out that politician so-and-so is up to his or her eyeballs in it – or who at best, has played fast and loose with the rules – it merely confirms for them what they already assume. And such, it has little consequence on their opinions or support of that politician, given they already assumed that politician was dirty. Because in their mind, they are all dirty.
Anyone who grew up or comes from the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum or who is from the more economically depressed parts of the country should be familiar with this cultural phenomenon.
@schrodingers_cat: He was also, IIRC, fairly liberal in his politics. And quite young when he became mayor of Cincy. Bit of a political wunderkind when he was elected. I can’t recall why he left politics.
? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?
@schrodingers_cat: Didn’t know that. Despite his reality shows, I figured he’s be better than any GOP autocrat. It was mentioned in the news report that he wasn’t planning on running for anything anyway.
Bryan was a deeply religious person that seemed to believe the new outlook, fundamentalism, in fighting against Darwinism and Mondernism of the time in conflict with Christianity.
? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?
@goblue72: That whole “politicians are all corrupt” meme has been around forever is apart of contemporary American culture. Like hating all lawyers except yours when you’re in a pinch.
What people need to understand is that the GOP and related rightist movements are becoming increasingly anti-democratic. They are corrupt to the point of suppressing opposition voters, extreme gerrymandering of districts, and propping up a deranged authoritarian crook to maintain their grip on power. All of this is being funded by right-wing billionaires like the Mercers and Locus. We’re devolving into electoral authoritarianism.
The Democrats aren’t perfect, but their kind of corrupt is far more mundane and less virulent. They are the only hope left to right this ship without mass violence
J R in WV
@? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?:
You’re wasting your time talking to go-blue, who appears from their commenting here to be stupid, arrogant, and mean spirited. A lot like Trump, now that I think on it for a second.
@? ?? Goku (aka Junior G-Man) ? ?: Goku, I’d like to second JR in WV. Just get the pie filter, and pie goblue 72. You *wlll* *not* regret it.
Oh and again, muchas gracias, cleek! For the filter, as well as the Law!
Similar to the group that says, “Keep your government hands off my Medicare.” Seriously, read Converse. A lot of people’s brains turn off when they start thinking about politics.