Or that their plan would make costs go up and leave millions without health care, 3/7
— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) June 12, 2017
If they were proud of this plan, they wouldn’t hide anything – they’d crow all about it! What exactly are they trying to cover up? 5/7
— Chuck Schumer (@SenSchumer) June 12, 2017
I was doing a little backstage clean-up, and just found this excerpt from before Paul Ryan managed to grin-and-BS his version of Trumpcare through the House. Still seems relevant: Adam Davidson, at the New Yorker, “What the GOP Doesn’t Get About Who Pays for Health Care”:
A few years ago, a relative of mine, an electrician who made a good living laying cable alongside highways, told me that his economic future depended on one thing: his back. He saw what happened to older guys—he meant men in their late thirties—when the pain became unbearable. They either became supervisors or they had to quit. At the time, my relative was about to turn thirty himself, and I remember him saying, “My back is killing me.”
I’ve been thinking about that conversation this week, as President Trump has cajoled and muscled House Republicans in an attempt to get the votes to pass the American Health Care Act, the Paul Ryan-produced bill that was meant to fulfill Trump’s campaign promise to repeal and replace Obama’s Affordable Care Act. The vote on the bill was postponed on Thursday, in part because the most conservative members of the House, known as the Freedom Caucus, believe that the bill shouldn’t mandate that insurance cover essential benefits, such as preventative and prenatal care, emergency-room visits, pharmaceuticals, and other elements that most Americans consider, well, essential. The idea, they argue, is that the government shouldn’t force citizens to pay for the health care of other citizens through mandatory insurance or other penalties…
When gross domestic product was first defined, in the nineteen-forties, by the economist Simon Kuznets, the goal was to find one simple measure that could serve as a thermometer for the economy: when the number rose, things were probably going better than when the number fell. Kuznets, of course, knew that this was an oversimplification, but a helpful one. Of all the countless ways people make and spend money, Kuznets identified three categories that he believed could cover everything: consumption, investment, and government spending. When he devised the number, health-care expenditure was minuscule, making up about 0.4 per cent of the over-all G.D.P. There seemed no reason to carve it out as its own category. Today, health spending makes up more than seventeen per cent of G.D.P. That spending is divided into the major categories. You “consume” cancer treatments or a checkup or a week in the hospital. A hospital might invest in a new M.R.I. machine or a cardiac-treatment wing. And the government spends money through Medicare, Medicaid, and the Veterans Administration, among other ways. Health care is the single largest government expenditure by quite a lot, typically nearly double the defense budget. However, dividing health expenditures into these categories misses an important economic reality: health-care spending has a substantial impact on every other sort of economic activity.
As my relative’s situation makes clear, much health-care consumption is perhaps better classified as an investment. As it happens, my relative didn’t get his back properly treated. He took medicine, and then illegal drugs, to treat his pain. That led to an addiction, which led to crime; he is in prison now, and costing the government tens of thousands of dollars a year. When he gets out, it seems unlikely that he will ever earn as much as he would have had he received basic preventative care when his pain first began. It would be wrong to blame all his troubles on health care, but failing to invest in proper treatment when it was needed helped transform one citizen from a hard-working taxpayer into a possible lifelong recipient of government largesse…
Apart from the neverending #Resistance, what’s on the agenda for the day?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes
The only people motivated to make greater efforts through financial gain are the already comfortable. If you aren’t already comfortable, you’re motivated through penury and pain.
Baud
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes: What if you’re completely unmotivated?
Lapassionara
Good morning. The statement by Schumer was the first I’ve heard that mentions cuts to Medicare. Yikes-a-mundo!
Waspuppet
Never forget that health care policy is being written by the party that thinks that you can buy health insurance for the price of an iPhone upgrade, that insurance doesn’t work if healthy people’s premiums are used to pay for sick people’s care and that men shouldn’t have to pay for prenatal care.
For the party of The People, and The Real Americans, they don’t seem to understand how anything works or how real Americans live. Someone should ask them about that.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud:
If you’re comfortable, you need a tax break; if not, you should live in a box under a bridge.
satby
@Lapassionara: they’ll do it if they think they can get away with that. And the old geezers who voted for them have it coming to them.
It would continue the trajectory of my life though,that just as I am on the verge of getting some benefit from the government I have earned, it gets reduced or removed by Republicans.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Tough but fair.
Baud
@satby: Right. I only feel sympathy for Hillary voters. For everyone else, they can vote Democratic if they want something better.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: I’m not sure about fair for those that are not comfortable, they don’t get a curtain rod or a sparrow.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
You will not do well in our new Republican reality.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym
That’s hardly unique to health care spending. It’s certainly true of everything that gets labeled as “investment.” Arguably, it’s true of just about everything that gets measured for GDP. GDP is a pretty good tool for doing what it’s designed to do, though one could argue that Gross National Product or Net National Product would be better, though harder to measure. The problem is everyone looking for one single measure that tells them everything they need to know, rather than that any one measure is flawed just because it fails to do so.
Lapassionara
@satby: yes, this. The people who can least afford to do so keep voting for Republicans. As my late mother used to say, “I am a woman, I am not rich, and I am old. Why would I ever vote for a Republican?” Why, indeed.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes
@satby:
My RWNJ mom wil be shocked, just shocked when my own entitlement to Medicare would consist of periodic coupon mailers for a 10% discount on a colonoscopy. She’ll be surprised and will have had no idea, but isn’t it nice that undeserving colored people won’t get anything…
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud:
Oxymoron as a word has lost all meaning.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@OzarkHillbilly:
I thought they were supposed to fix the opiate problem.
satby
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes: My late mother, a life-long Democrat until her dementia that dovetailed with constant Fox-watching, would tell me that they would never do the things they promised in their campaign rhetoric. Enough of their voters believe that, and it’s just demented. My mother at least was impaired. But the people who vote for such despicable results thinking they’re immune?
Fuck them.
Baud
@satby:
And the Democrats are liars.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Well, they’re neoliberals; so of course they’re liers.
gene108
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes:
Yes it is nice. It is super nice. It is so nice, we elected a President based on it, and many other office holders.
It really is the only thing driving American politics, white resentment of anyone else having it as good as they have it.
OzarkHillbilly
@?BillinGlendaleCA: heh
satby
@satby: and you know what a terrible thing it is to feel relief (in a way) that my mom passed before the election so we wouldn’t have to come to terms with her probable vote for the party that promises to do it’s best to kill my sister with MS and her insulin dependant son, both on Medicaid?
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I’m waiting for a right winger to attack Dems for being neoliberal.
gene108
The Russia stuff is a big deal, but it sucks all e air out of the room. The House voted to repeal Dodd-Frank, and it has received very little coverage.
I feel overwhelmed by the level of crap I have to try to battle coming from our government.
MomSense
I do not think Medicare recipients know their benefits are on the chopping block. I also don’t think a good many Medicaid recipients realize they voted for their own demise.
Nursing home and hospital jobs are about the only decent jobs left in a lot of rural areas.
Baud
@gene108: We have to learn to deal with it. We can’t control the timing of world events.
debbie
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes:
The people I know who are “comfortable” tend to get greedier as they become more comfortable and become less willing to see the greater good in anything other than their bank account.
ArchTeryx
@satby: They should be happy to be offered up as human sacrifices to the real Republican god – Moloch.
debbie
I hope Alam sees today’s Google Doodle. It’s a little game of cricket in honor of the 2017 ICC Champions Trophy.
satby
@ArchTeryx: you weren’t
Lapassionara
@MomSense: Yes. Rural area hospitals and nursing homes are usually one bright spot in an otherwise dim economic picture. This will be yet one more blow to those communities. And younger people whose parents are still alive need to google up “filial responsibility” laws, to see if their state will put them on the financial hook for the care of their parents.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone ???
Baud
@rikyrah: Good morning.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes
@Lapassionara:
I’ve been harping on filial responsibility laws and Medicaid for a while. My thought is that they are actually unconstitutional, but a 5 conservative SCOTUS may disagree.
Baud
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes: On what basis?
ArchTeryx
@satby: I hope you realize that I’m being very darkly snarky. I’ve been a health care evangelist LONG before the ACA, because that’s one ox that’s been gored my whole life. Republicans think your sister and her kid should be offered up as a blood sacrifice to appease their Moloch. I certainly do not.
gene108
@Baud:
Yeah, we have to deal with it. I am just getting burned out right now. I think some personal stuff that needs my attention is adding to the burn out.
Edit: I do not understand how right-wingers can live in their perpetual state of outrage. It must be exhausting for them.
Baud
@gene108: I get what that’s like. Take care of yourself.
rikyrah
They want to steal Healthcare away from 24 MILLION so that millionaires and billionaires can get a tax cut.
THAT is the bottom line of Trumpcare.
Amusing Ourselves to Death
Haven’t you noticed that nobody but your own echo chamber cares? It’s already over and we lost. The don’t care about rules and have no shame you can’t beat that outside of an election. It’s over. Quit.
rikyrah
@Lapassionara:
Good on Schumer spreading the word.
Baud
Trollism is so funny. I wonder if there are any academic studies exploring the phenomenon.
Patricia Kayden
@Waspuppet: Also never forget that Trump Care is being written by a party which doesn’t believe that a healthcare law is necessary in the first place. They opposed the ACA on the principle that the US had the best healthcare system in the entire world. Somehow they were able to demonize the ACA and turn it into a communistic, socialist, Marxist adventure. It’s only since President Obama has been out of office that the ACA has approval polling higher than 50%.
I guess Republicans will ultimately get what they want. They’ll destroy the ACA either by neglecting it or by repealing and replacing it with Trump Care which will take away healthcare insurance from millions of Americans. If they got what they really wanted, they’d simply repeal the ACA and replace it with nothing at all.
ArchTeryx
@Amusing Ourselves to Death: Bring a brony, I’m going to pull out a Princess Celestia quote for this occasion.
I don’t think so.
rikyrah
@satby:
They would be okay with taking it away from others. They never thought that they could find themselves among the OTHERS.
JPL
Good news, bad news.. My computer has been acting up, and until I can get it fixed, I’m going to send less time online. Actually, that’s good news, because I won’t be able to read about what horrors, the republicans have wrought.
gene108
@rikyrah:
Repeal of the taxes added by the ACA is just the first step in the grand plan for even more tax cuts.
I have no idea how much worse the damage from this round of Republican rule will be than last time, but I think it will be worse.
They are hell bent on undoing everything Democrats did to make sure we do not have another Great Recession.
rikyrah
@MomSense:
They propose cutting 880 BILLION from Medicaid, and those dependent on it, don’t think that means them?
Da hail ?
rikyrah
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes:
You have brought them up, and thanks for doing so.
ArchTeryx
@MomSense: Oh, I knew exactly what they were voting for. When a RWNJ friend of mine came to offer sympathy after I expressed my fear of death on my Facebook page, I told him he had some nerve, as he’d just voted for my death, and booted him off my page.
Not a moment of regret.
Iowa Old Lady
@Lapassionara: Schumer may be talking about the proposal to raise the Medicare eligibility age to 67.
gene108
@Baud:
Here you go
https://www.theguardian.com/media-network/media-network-blog/2014/sep/18/psychology-internet-trolls-pewdiepie-youtube-mary-beard
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-morrison-phillips-20150701-column.html
Matt McIrvin
@Amusing Ourselves to Death:
Some numbers:
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/trump-job-approval-health-care
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/paul-ryan-favorable-rating
Lapassionara
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes: I haven’t thought about whether they are constitutional. Interesting idea. Before Medicare, there were not treatments for many of the diseases and problems of older age. Eg, my grandmother got rheumatoid arthritis in her late 60’s. No real treatment, other than aspirin. Within years, she was crippled and in constant pain. I now have RA, and have no visible signs of it, and zero pain, thanks to a monthly and expensive infusion, the price of which goes up yearly. I question what my mother would have done if there had been a treatment for RA back then. Would she have found the money to pay for something for her mother’s treatment, even if the law did not require her to do so? I think she would have tried, and the result would have been to further diminish her resources for her retirement.
I still work and pay taxes, but without treatment, that would not be possible for me.
Time for yard chores, before I think myself into a complete funk.
Jeffro
@gene108:
Me too. And it’s weird – just six months ago, all was well with the Republic. Well, there was a vacancy on the Supreme Court that needed filling, but that was about it.
It’s almost like…like some sort of plague hit us in November, or something. Something pushed us off the rails? Something really unpopular, that’s for sure.
germy
@Jeffro:
President Locust Swarm.
Kristine
“Neighbor helping neighbor.” That’s GOP healthcare in a nutshell. Plastic jars by cash registers, bake sales and pancake breakfasts.
They brush aside the fact that we’re all neighbors. That, to me, is what government is, one whacking huge neighborhood. Tried to explain that to a Tea Party/Trumpster FB friend** and it rolled off her back. To her, government is the enemy, something other.
**She was a grade school friend I friended on FB before reading her page and realizing she was a TP’er. Unfriended her after the election.
OzarkHillbilly
@Patricia Kayden:
That’s what they are doing.
@ArchTeryx: Somebody farted.
Immanentize
And on top of all this known unknown healthcare crap — Jeff Sessions will take the stand to repeat under oath how super-duper and fantabulous the Trump administration is. I predict Republican softball questions and fillibusters of Democratic questions — just like the Bush years and testimony by Condoleezza Rice (What was the title of the briefing?)
bemused
@Lapassionara:
This is what’s been bugging me. The main point talked about in media is cutting Medicaid funding. I don’t think there has been enough information getting to voters, particularly Republican voters, how the GOP wealth-care bills are going to screw with everyone’s health care coverage. The demented dictator takes up so much oxygen away from health care bills in msm and the polls show how unpopular GOP plans to upend ACA are with Americans but I wonder how many Americans are aware of the devil details.
At least Chris Hayes did a segment last night but one would think msm news channels could have all spared more time on GOP plans to kill healthcare coverage vs majority of news channels spending their whole day, all panels opinionating on what Trump has done now ad nauseam.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Lapassionara: Obviously you need a tax break, they cure everything.
bemused
@MomSense:
Exactly. They aren’t hearing about those pesky details.
Baud
@MomSense:
@bemused:
I don’t know how much info people have, but the bill is already pretty unpopular. I’m not sure how much more unpopular it can get.
ArchTeryx
@OzarkHillbilly: Yeah, I know, don’t feed and all that. But still. Not ready to play nice, as the Dixie Chicks once said.
Chyron HR
@bemused:
It would be nice if the media provided detailed, unbiased coverage of the consequences of everything the current government is doing, but Trump isn’t getting in the way of that. He’s getting in the way of their 24/7 coverage of completely fictional Clinton scandals.
bemused
@rikyrah:
It shouldn’t have taken this long for Shumer or other Dems to say this. Dems should have been pounding those truths from the first GOP AHCA bill.
I’m so frustrated.
Baud
@gene108: Thank you.
Baud
@bemused: Can we stop with the Blame Dems First. I think Dems have been great.
Mike R
@germy: That will be added to responses to my right wing “friends”, thank you.
Immanentize
@Jeffro: I am having the same feelings. It’s like nothing but despair in all directions right now. Since November I’ve felt like one of Vonnegut’s characters — that this is some unreality which is really just a type of test of resilience or something.
I have had to step back from the intertubes myself, but just when I think I’m finally out, events pull me back in!!
Lapassionara
@bemused: love the term “wealth care.”@?BillinGlendaleCA: Hah!
Kay
39 states! And the public was completely in the dark. They knew all about the Hillary Clinton campaign’s boring email chatter but they didn’t know someone was attempting to change their vote after it was cast.
I thought Bloomberg had the best coverage of the 2016 elections, after the Washington Post, who I feel were the clear winners. But Bloomberg doesn;t get any credit. I wonder why not.
gene108
@Jeffro:
The plague’s been with us from the first European colonists came and decided they were superior to everyone else, and then after wiping out the natives, deciding to import African slaves because Africans are naturally the most inferior.
The plague expresses itself now and again, but its virulence has been diminishing over time. We had a major procedure against it from 1861 to 1865, but it came back, though weaker.
Then a second round of treatment started around 1910, with the formation of the NAACP.
The second round laid the groundwork for the third round, which started in the 1950’s, to be really effective.
We thought we might have finally eradicated the plague in 2008, but it came back with a vengeance.
And metastasized into the Trump campaign in 2016.
I guess we are now searching for a cure, before the plague weakens a now reasonably healthy country.
OzarkHillbilly
@ArchTeryx: I never play nice with them. In fact I try not to play with them at all but sometimes I fail.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes
@Baud:
Substantive due process. You have no choice in who you’re born to (takes away the notion of any volitional basis of incurring the obligation), plus, everyone’s resource base is different – there’s an equal protection aspect to that.
Most of the current filial statutes require pretty much state-removal-of-a-kid level of abandonment for excusing people from the responsibility.
gene108
@bemused:
Dems have been crying bloody murder about the AHCA. Dems, unlike Republicans, lack their own cable news channel, network of radio stations, and magazines and newspapers to push their message out.
We just have to hope the MSM is in a good mood and bothers reporting it fairly.
Jeffro
@Kristine:
Yup – totaling ignoring the fact that it’s always inadequate and after-the-fact.
Pretty obvious why that is, right?
I usually ask air quote “Libertarian” friends, “How is taxation = theft, if we’re all making each other pay?” “How is it not your government when you’re just as able to vote for your reps and organize/motivate others as anyone else?” “Is it only ‘your’ government if it agrees with you, and spends money only on the things you want?”
They don’t really have good answers to that.
bemused
@Baud:
True but does everyone on Medicare know that Medicaid defunding will raise their premiums and tax cut to pharmas will raise their prescription med costs? Those trusting fools who think Medicare/SS will always be there for them need to be hit with a clue by four. I know, there will always be that 27% who don’t catch on to anything but other Republican voters on Medicare might get pissed off if they heard more about and believed their monthly income was going to be stretched a lot further.
Patricia Kayden
@gene108: Unfortunately, Republicans are going balls to the walls in terms of doing the most to destroy this country and turn it into a kleptocracy for their rich buddies. We should continue to resist and contact our Reps but there is only so much that we (and Dems in Congress) can do to stem the tide. Trump’s incompetence and inexperience has actually been a blessing. He hasn’t signed one piece of legislation as yet because he’s not good at organizing his own party,
Baud
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes: Ok. In theory, though, conservative justices are opposed to substantive due process arguments.
Jeffro
@Immanentize: Well…I’m not despairing…it was more along the lines of, “Remember when basic health care wasn’t controversial, and tens of millions of people didn’t have to worry about losing coverage? Or when our government wouldn’t even consider using public funds for religious school-vouchers?” And so on.
It’s all been self-inflicted wounds and anxiety since November. I’ll be glad to see it come to a stop, and soon.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes
@Kay:
Aside from Oregon (that I know does internet voting), what purpose is there for any electronic voting system to be hooked to the internet?
bemused
@Baud:
I don’t think I’m doing that. Dems have been great but their messaging could be better, imo and msm has never given them the same air time as Republicans get. As Al Franken said, the Dem messages don’t fit on bumper stickers and end in “to be continued” on next bumper sticker.
Jeffro
@Kay:
I keep thinking some elected Dem, at some point, is going to call a presser or something (or hell, even buy 30 minutes of airtime) and lay it all out. Here’s what Trumpov and his campaign were up to. Here’s what McConnell and Ryan did to block action on that. Here’s where the money came from. Here’s some info about the Mercers and Cambridge Analytica. And American people, you might notice that a) nothing this president* has done looks like the actions of an innocent man, and b) believe it or not, McConnell and Ryan are going to keep enabling this guy – meaning, KEEPING AMERICA VULNERABLE – until they finish looting the store.
Do it, Schiff. Do it, Gillibrand. Do it, Franken. Go BIG.
OzarkHillbilly
@gene108:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….. gasp…. wheeze…. 10,000 unemployed comedians and here you are giving it away for free.
Immanentize
@Jeffro: Oh I used despair because I once got a fortune cookie fortune that read: “Don’t despair, but if you do — work on in despair.”. I have it taped to my monitor at work….
And I completely agree that the normal has shifted so much in my lifetime. Disorientating.
Quinerly
OT: I was looking for an early morning smile and found it: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_593eb8dee4b0b13f2c6c9e99
Karen S.
@Kristine:
Exactly this. The bake sales, pancake breakfasts, etc., are the way they want to go because they get to choose who their charity goes to. They can feel good that their purchase of peanut butter cookies at the church bake sale helped someone they perceive as deserving of their largesse.
Quinerly
@OzarkHillbilly:
Welcome back!
JMG
The Republican health care plan polls way, way below Trump, who’s not doing well himself. People know it stinks for them.That’s why the Senate is doing the whole thing in secret. They somehow think that not having their phones tied up means they’re politically invincible. The formerly “raucous” town halls (they’ll stop holding any meetings except with donors) could turn into crowds just short of lynch mobs wherever they go if they pass it.
Jeffro
@Kay: btw Stand Up America has a great post up on FB circulating around…I just shared it along with the following note:
ThresherK
@Immanentize: The last thing I taped to my work monitor was clipped from a newspaper* interview with Philippe Kahn of Borland:
That particular computer was museum-obsolete by the mid-90s, but the quote will never go out of style.
Millard Filmore
@Jeffro:
Good idea, but how much of what they can say was learned through a closed CI hearing? Maybe they are following some rule that forbids laying it all out.
Baud
What’s with the new layout? All the text is now on the left of the screen.
bemused
@Jeffro:
GOP will do anything to get massive tax cuts when they are in the driver’s seat and suddenly forget about debt and deficits. They pooh pooh Russian influence on our elections and Russia/Trump/WH connections which does make me wonder if Russian hackers have acquired personal and other compromising information on some GOPers.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Jeffro: But he keeps denying about being with hookers in Russia.
OzarkHillbilly
@Millard Filmore:
There are no rules anymore. If the GOP has shown anything, they have shown that.
@Quinerly: Thanx. I’d like to say it’s nice being back from a totally trump and politics free week and a half in the wilderness, but it’s not.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Looks fine on my PC.
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
You know better than that. The rules still apply to Dems. In fact, Calvinball rules apply to Dems, and do so retroactively.
Kay
@Jeffro:
The bloomberg story needs a lot of follow-up. I think the natural next question is “were state election officials informed?”
I don’t think they were because if 39 sec of state were notified it would have come out. If they WEREN’T notified then federal law enforcement have to explain why. Law enforcement can’t allow something bad to happen so they can collect evidence. They can’t use voters in a kind of “sting” where they don’t prevent the attack so they can prove an attack later. Their first duty is to prevent an attack, even if that messes up their evidence-gathering and eventual prosecutions.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: You don’t notice a different style than from a couple of days ago?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Kay: They were busy finding Hillary’s emails.
Kay
@Jeffro:
Sessions also needs to be on the record and under oath as to whether he believes this happened, or if he goes along with Trump and considers it “fake news”.
He’s the chief law enforcement officer of the United States. Does he plan on protecting state voting systems from an attack like this?
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: Nope, looks the same.
ETA: Chrome, Win10.
OzarkHillbilly
@Baud: We need not play calvinball, and we need not play fair either. As a buddy of mine said, what dems need are better lies.
Immanentize
@Jeffro: you are looking for a recitation on the floor of the Senate or the House:
Gravel v. United States. Speech and debate clause.
different-church-lady
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes: I’m motivated by not wanting to be homeless.
Kay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
It could be the biggest story of the 2016 election. They missed it. They covered the Clinton email theft as a horserace story “bad for Democrats, good for Republicans” – meanwhile 39 state systems were under attack.
Baud
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Weird.
@OzarkHillbilly: Whatever works. First one to figure it out gets a thumbs up from me.
Kay
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I also love how everyone is pretending this wasn’t targeted at Democrats. “This is a Republican and Democratic issue”.
Well, actually not. They didn’t target any Republicans. Which is probably why it wasn’t fucking covered while it was happening.
It worked out fine for Republicans.
Immanentize
@Kay: what Sessions believes is irrelevant. The questioning must be tight. But it won’t be because senators.
Do you agree with the unanimous consensus of the Intelligence Community that Russia worked to influence the 2016 election?
Do you consider such attacks criminal acts?
Who have you tasked in your office to lead the effort to prevent any such further attacks?
D58826
@Kay:
My first guess would be that this falls into the same category as to why Obama didn’t go public with the entire hacking episode in a more forceful way. ZEGS and YRTLE said they would claim any announcement was a partisan effort to tilt the election in Hillary’s favor. Even if vote totals were not changed you just have to wonder how many GOOPERs owe their election to dark money, attack ads and micro targeting all funded by Putin. I have seen a couple of articles that both ZEGS and YRTLE received large amounts of campaign cash that had a Russian connection. No wonder the GOP has been so quiet.
zhena gogolia
@Baud:
Yes, seriously irritating.
Jeffro
@Millard Filmore: At some point – for the safety of the country and future elections, if nothing else – they’re just going to have to say ‘fuck it’ (about whether or not what they’re relaying to Americans was learned in a closed/classified hearing).
The stakes are too high to keep playing by the rules here. One side is obeying them, one is not, and every day the ‘cheaters’ stay under cover, we’re losing ground.
ETA I see Baud at #98 got there first…great minds and all that…
Immanentize
@Kay: And Comey knows it was asymmetrical. Was be just trying to buck up Republicans? Or just cover his ass once again for giving us Trump?
Kay
I have a friend Mary Lou who is a teacher. Her husband voted for Trump, which we talk about- how horrible he is for doing that :)
He’s not really “political” he’s just sort of eccentric. Anyway, she told me yesterday for the first time he thinks Trump won’t last out his term. He now says he’s never voting again because the establishment beat Trump. Good. Good decision. If you’re bad at voting you should quit.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay:
If he does it’s only because he hates competition. “If anybody is going to destroy the American electoral system, it will be the GOP!”
D58826
@Kay: Since Sessions owes his job to Trump, lied under oath at his confirmation hearing about the Russian connection , lied on his form 86 (is that the right one), continued to lie until the WAPO nailed him, I would not believe him if he said the sun comes up in the east. A senator can ask him if his fly is zipped and he will lie about it. Maddow last night re-upped the WAPO story about asking all 26 members of the armed services committee (Sessions old committee) about meetings with the Russian ambassador in the previous year. Of the 20 that responded, none had any contact with the Russians. Yet Sessions just happened to have 2 and maybe a still undisclosed third.
Baud
@Kay:
I don’t know what that means, but go establishment!
Kay
@Baud:
I’m reading this book about the anti-Castro Cubans and how the United States didn’t really understand them – they didn’t understand the centrality of “men of ACTION” to their world view, what they admire. Trumpsters admire “men of action”. Trump has to appear to be winning or they don’t want to play.
ThresherK
@Immanentize: Yes. (It’s an old joke, but the “Mathmetician’s Answer” fits here.)
O. Felix Culpa
On a semi-related note (Apple. Tree. Etc.), you’ll be surprised (shocked! SHOCKED!) to find out that Ivanka’s overseas factory employees are poorly paid and sometimes verbally abused.
Quote from an Indonesian worker:
Kay
@O. Felix Culpa:
They’re rolling her out this week on “workplace development”. She’ll be advising the peons on the training they need to be qualified to do their jobs.
OMFG, the arrogance just knows no bounds! Not a SHRED of self-awareness. Welders will have FAR more training for their jobs than she has for hers.
?BillinGlendaleCA
A wall of cuckoo clocks.
Villago Delenda Est
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo fka Edmund Dantes: Oregon does not do internet voting. It’s vote by mail…you’re mailed a paper ballot, which you fill in your choices with ink, which you mail back. It’s then tabulated along with the rest. There is a paper trail.
Now, you CAN update your registration over the internet. I just did so a couple of months ago when I moved across town. But what that did was get me a ballot at my new address.
dogwood
@D58826:
I clicked on a Morning Joe segment sometime last week, and Scarborough actually had a good suggestion when it comes to Sessions and the Russians. Republicans are spinning that Session’s contacts with Russians were part of his job as a Senator. Scarborough wanted someone to find out how many contacts the AG had with Russians before he joined the Trump campaign. He believes the answer would be none.
Kay
Yay. Megyn Kelly is also a voter fraud conspiracy theorist, if anyone cares.
Amir Khalid
I’m seeing news stories about how President Trump just had his first Cabinet meeting, and it consisted of the various Secretaries all praising him to the skies.
Never mind the fulsome praise for the Lieber Führer. He’s been in office all these months, and this is the first time he’s convened a Cabinet meeting?
rikyrah
The Question I Want Jeff Sessions to Answer
by Martin Longman
June 12, 2017 5:38 PM
I was thinking of compiling a list of questions for members of the Senate Intelligence Committee to ask Attorney General Jeff Sessions when he testifies before them tomorrow afternoon, but then I noticed that James Hohmann of the Washington Post had already done this. He came up with forty questions.
It’s not likely that any of the Republicans on the committee will focus on these questions, and there’s no doubt that Sessions will bob, weave, and duck as many of them as he can when he fields them from Democrats. He’ll hide behind a variety screens. He’ll say that he can’t talk about personal communications with the president. He’ll say that he can’t discuss classified material. He’ll argue that he can’t discuss topics that are the subject of an an open and ongoing inquiry by Special Counsel Bob Mueller. Whenever he thinks he can get away with it, he’ll claim to have a faulty and imprecise memory.
But there’s one question I really want to see him grapple with:
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay:
Narcissists are both supremely self-involved and completely lacking in self-awareness. Add heaping dollops of arrogance and cynicism and you have the Trumps. Apparently the entire GOP too.
And yes, the notion of Ivanka-born-into-privilege-Trump counselling anyone on work training would be humorous if not so very unfunny, because real-life consequences.
D58826
@Kay: After listening to all of the ‘will he fire Mueller’ talk on cable yesterday I thought that yep that would be a good idea. Makes the cowardly GOOPERS fish or cut bait. Would they as Cong. Schiff thinks vote to re-appoint a new SP. Then I thought – no the tin foil hat is on to tight.
I saw this last night on Twitter and then again on Raw Story this AM. Wilson is an outspoken GOP critic of Der Fuhrer and he had the same idea as I.
The full 27 teet storm is at the end of the article.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/rick-wilson-pens-scathing-tweetstorm-against-trump-fellators-fanboys-grunting-maga-mouthbreathers/
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid:
Yes, but it was the best Cabinet meeting ever, just ask the Cabinet Secretaries.
Villago Delenda Est
@D58826:
Cleek’s Law. Right there.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Full cabinet meeting. He had trouble filling a few of the smaller, less publicized offices, like Secs of the Navy and IIRC Army. And Sonny Perdue’s nomination/confirmation at Ag dragged on for a while.
Kathleen
@gene108: I hear you. You are not alone there.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m not sure full cabinet meetings are all that common. In the article discussing the meeting it was mentioned that Obama’s first full cabinet meeting was in April 2009.
Quinerly
Someone may have posted this. Their big mouths will ultimately sink them…all of them. Personal atty talking about his conversations with Trump. Wonder how Sessions feels about being second choice: https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-personal-lawyer-boasted-that-he-got-preet-bharara-fired
O. Felix Culpa
@Quinerly: Shameless and stupid. Those qualities might be what sinks them and saves us.
rikyrah
@D58826:
It was a blistering twitter rant!
D58826
@Kay: And has been very concerned that too many people do not know that Santa Clause (or was it Jesus whatever) is white. It seems that the fake media has been spreading untrue stories that Santa doesn’t really exist and the Jesus probably was closer to brown than white (as in a shade of olive).
rikyrah
The Golden State Warriors voted unanimously to skip their entire visit to Donald Trump’s White House.
As woke as any team in sports.
— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) June 13, 2017
Ruckus
@Lapassionara:
None of the following is aimed at you. Just simple questions that need to be asked. Your comment just suggested to me, a way to bring home the absolute venality of conservatives. Especially conservative lawmakers.
You didn’t think they’d leave Medicare alone did you?
You don’t think they will leave Medicaid alone do you?
You don’t think they will leave SS alone do you?
You don’t think they will leave the VA alone do you?
You don’t think they care if you die do you?
You don’t think that they can actually have a reasonable thought about the consequences of their actions for the vast majority of Americans, even the ones voting for them do you?
danielx
@gene108:
Rephrase: resentment of anybody else having anything at all.
D58826
@danielx: rephrase a bit more – resentment of the ‘other’ even being here.
D58826
@rikyrah: fortunately electrons have a high melting point. On paper it would have turned the page to ash
Original Lee
@MomSense: And those are being reduced, too. As I found out when I visited my grandma yesterday, the state of Michigan has reduced the minimum numbers of aides required ande apparently capped the number of aides, as well. When Grandma first went into the nursing home, they had 4 aides for 24 people on each shift. Now it’s 2 aides for the morning and afternoon shifts and 1 aide for the evening and night shifts. I won’t even talk about other staff reductions. The director of the facility says there is nothing he can do – he’s tried to hire on more staff, but they can only come on board as substitutes for when someone has the day off.
Ruckus
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
They did. Private prisons. We just don’t see the beauty in such simple answers to complex questions. Or that actually helping people might just, in the long run make them more productive and least costly to the rest of us. But that would require thought, compassion, a desire to be helpful rather than hurtful. It would require them to leave their Puritanism behind them, to understand that their entire lives have been bullshit.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@D58826: it’s all so much virtual chin music, but unless I skipped over one of the tweets, the lack of any calling-out of elected Repbulicans stood out to me
@rikyrah: good for them
Yoda Dog
@rikyrah: That’s awesome. This is the hardest I’ve pulled for the Warriors all season.
Kristine
@Jeffro:
Based on my admittedly limited exposure, Libertarians just want the right to be a-holes and not have anyone call them on it.
Kinda like the GOP as a whole, at this point.
Quinerly
American sentenced to 15 years hard labor in NKorea for stealing a poster reportedly released. Sounds like Rodman’s plane had just landed.
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
They want to steal the lives of all of us so that millionaires and billionaires can get tax cuts.
Don’t forget that many of the conservatives doing this are millionaires. They aren’t doing this just to help their benefactors it supposedly helps them as well.
Corner Stone
@D58826:
But that’s a political decision. Why aren’t we talking about the national security aspects of this decision? This nation was/is under attack by a foreign adversary and the leader of the Senate is making decisions for our national security response?
Yoda Dog
I don’t believe they’re really going to fire Mueller. I want to believe it. But I think this is more crap like Sessions-almost-resigning that they just float out there to stir shit up.
Kathleen
@gene108: Hmmm. Time to reread Camus’The Plague. I believe that was a metaphor for Fascism. I agree with your summary. W.E.B. DuBois predicted what we’re facing. Or not wanting to face.content://media/external/file/2585face.
rikyrah
@Kay:
I told you yesterday….
If she were doing the hostessing stuff of First Lady, nobody would be as down on her.
But, they continue to insist that she’s qualified to do anything….POLICY AFFECTS REAL PEOPLE AND REAL LIVES..
Which is why nobody has time for her and her foolishness.
Corner Stone
@Kay: God, but I hate Ivanka so fucking much.
Immanentize
@Ruckus: This is prison Keynesianism. The perfect balance of incarcerated and those working to keep them incarcerated.
Corner Stone
Otto Warmbeer? Is he the cousin of Reality Winner?
rikyrah
@Kay:
UNDER OATH..
yes…
UNDER OATH…
Immanentize
@Kathleen: Also Blindness, by Jose Saramago.
danielx
@gene108:
On the contrary. It’s energy-enhancing for them. That’s why Fox News, Breitbart, et al, exist – to provide a daily rage fix and maintain that level of outrage. Their content is meant to induce ragegasms, as opposed to providing information.
rikyrah
Quick Takes: Trump’s Truly Bizarre Cabinet Meeting
A roundup of news that caught my eye today.
by Nancy LeTourneau
June 12, 2017 7:00 PM
Over the course of the last couple of years, Donald Trump has done a lot of things to make people question his mental health. Today’s Cabinet meeting is right up there with the best of them. John Harwood explains:
The president then went around the room asking for a comment from each cabinet member. Here’s Harwood again:
schrodingers_cat
@D58826: I was educated by BJers that to be considered “white” in the United States you have to have European ancestry and be Christian. Jesus fails on both those counts, so not white according to the standards applied by “real” Americans.
D58826
@Corner Stone: Oh I agree. Der Fuhrer/Yrtle and ZEGS belong in adjacent cells at GITMO.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
It’s the first time he had a cabinet. He’s not all that quick. He spent the first 4 months learning how to turn on the lights. He’s still in the dark.
D58826
@schrodingers_cat:
Well depending on how they vote some Jewish Americans have been granted honorary white status.
On a more serious note, that list used the be restricted to protestants of N. European extraction. Over time Catholics and southern/eastern Europeans have been given membership cards.
hovercraft
@rikyrah:
Deep State!!
Deep State!!
Ooops, I mean Coastal Elites!!!
Good for them, and congrats!
You just know that inside he’s yelling fucking ni&&ers, how dare they reject ME! The greatest most accomplished president in the last 100 years if not ever.
rikyrah
@Kay:
Keep on bringing this up, Kay.
And, these are questions that need to be answered by Attorney General White Citizens Council.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@D58826: @schrodingers_cat: the thing about that clip is that it was important to Meghan Kelly to say that. It wasn’t a jokey, casual thing (not that that would make it any less ahistorically racist), it was to her a vital fact that she needed to state publicly
D58826
saw this yesterday
But don’t worry the judge decided he wasn’t a danger to society and let him out on bail. In the meantime protesters arrested on Inauguration day in DC face possible 75 years in jail if convicted and the lady who laughed during a senate confirmation hearing has been sentenced to a year in jail.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/florida-neo-nazi-plotted-bombings-at-nuclear-reactors-and-synagogues-prosecutors/
.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: and her audience. But she will make up for it by interviewing Sandy Hook (among other things ) denier Alex Jones.
Lurking Canadian
@Corner Stone: It’s a national security issue, too. What was Putin trying to do? Get Trump elected. If Obama made the determination that going public would increase the likelihood Trump gets elected, then saying nothing was the right thing to do.
McConnell and Ryan’s position is indefensible. Obama’s decision, as much as it pisses me off, might be justified.
I do wish he had just declassified the whole lot on November 9, though.
Quinerly
Personally, I think Sessions has more serious stuff to worry about?: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/06/13/jeff-sessions-personally-asked-congress-to-let-him-prosecute-medical-marijuana-providers/?utm_term=.b96cbf5d3997
Quinerly
@Corner Stone:
They are reporting that he has been in a coma for over a year.
hovercraft
@schrodingers_cat:
Do not despair, there’s still a chance you may get admitted to the club. 100 years ago, Italians and other “dark” Europeans were not “white”, but changing demographics in a few places necessitated that they be admitted in order to keep the balance of power and ensure that the right people were kept in their place. It’s happening again right now, being labelled “Hispanic” used to mean that you were just a dirty bean eater and an undesirable, now with the changing demographics, it’s now acceptable to be a “White Hispanic”. Even within our own ranks we “value” lighter skin, hair and eyes, this has to stop, we can’t protest the racism of white people while tolerating this sort of hierarchy within.
Oh and stop lying on Jesus, he was blond with blue eyes, and a Christian, it’s right there in his name Christ. And Santa Claus is too an American white guy!
scav
@Amir Khalid: What I liked about that meetng is how all the assembled court had to out-Regan-and-Goneril each other as the second course of the PR- morale- and team-building event.
Denali
When is someone going to leak the healthcare bill?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
nice!
I wonder if trump noticed that Mattis was conspicuous by his praise of the military and pentagon personnel until the media pointed it out, and how much he has been stewing since it was brought to his attention, maybe by some helpful staffer who would like to see Mattis diminished.
Kay
I know Schumer is a neoliberal sell-out but I love how cheerfully combative he is.
Harry Reid was really pretty dark. Schumer’s more upbeat :)
I was with my youngest son in Detroit once and we met Schumer. My son had a Red Wings hat on although he 1. doesn’t follow hockey and 2. does not live in Detroit. Schumer speaks really rapidly and my son was a little rattled by the barrage of rat a tat speech so we never got a chance to correct Schumer who thinks my son is a Detroit resident and hockey fan :)
Gravenstone
@Amusing Ourselves to Death: Would someone please permaban whatever IP range is associated with this fuckstain? Posting nothing but “die already, Libs” is getting fucking old and it’s only been here (in at least two names already) for a couple of days.
Uncle Cosmo
@Jeffro: Thanks so much for sharing that fact with those of us who aren’t on Le Livre des Visages. While providing neither a link nor the salient text.
Peale
@Kay: Yep. My guess is that institutionally, the FBI had its head up its ass, actually, Guiliani’s ass, (they seem to love them some America’s Mayor) and were also probably running wild trying to build cases against Black Lives Matter protesters that Russian Hacking was some kind of third order threat. Like asking them to stop those attacks would have been too much. Because they had beautiful sources.
I’m also not going to be surprised to find out that certain key members within the FBI are compromised as well.
Lurking Canadian
@Denali: I don’t think they need to leak it. We already know what it says:
1) More money for us
2) Fuck you
The Grayson Interpretation is also useful:
3) Don’t get sick
4) If you get sick, die quickly
Lapassionara
@Ruckus: I think this thread is dead, but these are all good questions. The overarching question, to me, is why did anyone believe anything Trump said? Why did so many fall for the con? I remember pre-election interviews with union members whose unions were for HRC, but who were going to vote for the con artist. How’s that working out for them, I wonder.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Uncle Cosmo: I don’t know Stand Up America, but here’s their non-face book site
Kathleen
@Quinerly: e@Immanentize: Thank you.
TS
@rikyrah:
In many ways Melania is very like her husband – He hates the job but he will not voluntarily give up the title. Melania doesn’t want the job of FLOTUS but she isn’t giving that title to her step daughter – no way was Ivanka going to get that job.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Lapassionara: 1) the more I’ve gotten into following politics, the more I’m surprised, over and over again, how superficial people’s reasons for picking candidates are. The NYT did a story in November on women who voted for Trump, and several of them cited the fact that they “liked” Ivanka.
2) how many of those union members were white men, and if we interviewed them, how many own guns, have some kind of “Jesus Saves” bumper sticker, and/or think that Black Lives Matter, the phrase and organization, is ‘racist’.
Kay
It isn’t, though. Elections are a basic government function, like highways and water delivery. If Republicans refuse to work on election interference then it’s not “working”. At the very least they could inform us so we can know what we’re up against, even if we can’t do anything as individuals. They haven’t even told us the scope of the issue- the broad outlines. We really do deserve to know. The GOP’s determination to protect Donald Trump is hindering their ability to do their jobs.
schrodingers_cat
@hovercraft: I think there is a difference between the colorism say in Indian communities and the construct of racism as practiced in the West. While being lighter skinned may be of more aesthetic value, dark skin is not automatically considered inferior. Its better to be upper caste and dark skinned than vice versa. Also, women are judged for their skin tone more than men are. Its more of an unfair beauty standard than anything else.
Also too, I am happy being who I am, don’t need no admission to any club. Nor am I in any hurry to become “Judeo-Christian”.
scav
And for a means to both endure the reality but keep moving foreward in the despair, here’s this: Carlsberg aims for zero carbon emissions after Trump’s Paris pullout
ETA: what’s more, they’re hiring PhDs, so apparently believe in Science!, how anathma to some.
D58826
Trump tweet
I guess that is based on Comey’s hatch job of Lynch last week. The entire Lynch was trying to interfere in the investigation because of ‘matter’ vs ‘investigation’ and the runway meeting with Bill falls apart because Comey in his own press conference said there was no there there on the e-mails.
Corner Stone
@Kay:
The US Govt has known, with some high level of confidence, what happened and how since at least summer of 2015. It’s summer of 2017 and we are just now getting dribs and drabs from “investigative” journalists that are finally adding some detail. And if it really is as systemic as we are now being led to believe, shouldn’t someone have spilled the beans before all these “special elections”? What if more info would have motivated people to vote, or even change their vote?
Will we know anything more substantive before we start voting in 2018?
Kay
Is everyone in the country clear that if there’s a terrorist attack Donald Trump plans on blaming federal judges?
That’s why he Tweets that every day- to cover his giant ass. This isn’t subtle – he Tweets that judges are stopping him from protecting the country. Donald Trump is a “genius” in the same manner as a poorly-raised 3 year old is a “genius” and he’s about as hard to figure out.
D58826
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: IIRC there were ‘I LIKE IKE’ campaign buttons in 1952. Of course a lot of his voters also served under him in WWII.
Corner Stone
@scav: I wish I were named Cees t‘Hart.
rikyrah
@Lapassionara:
because THEY WANTED TO.
Let’s ask again…
HOW COME THE NON-WHITE POPULATION OF THIS COUNTRY DIDN’T FALL FOR IT?
Uh huh
Uh huh
ThresherK
@hovercraft: Dorothy Keener, comic character, poli-sci major, future president, lays it on the line:
rikyrah
@Kay:
We’ve already had terrorist attacks.
But, they were of the WHITE, domestic variety, and he can’t be bothered mentioning them.
Matt McIrvin
@Kay: Yes, when he said “if there’s a terrorist attack I plan on blaming federal judges,” that was a hint.
hovercraft
@schrodingers_cat:
While I agree that the preference for lighter skin may have begun as merely an aesthetic choice, what’s happened over the years is that since lighter skinned people were deemed more attractive, the wealthier and the powerful chose mates who were lighter skinned to get children who were light skinned, and now if you look at the people with the most power, they do tend to be lighter skinned. We don’t have a caste system so that layer of hierarchy is removed, but if you look at the “lobala’, bride price that people pay for women, the price for a lighter bride was always higher. Many families will pay more for a light skinned woman than and educated one even though the darker skinned educated one will earn more and therefore be more “valuable” in the short term, they calculate that the light skinned one will produce light skinned children who will be more valued by society for generations to come.
Leto
@Karen S.: @Kristine:
Not sure if this has already been posted but: America’s Health-Care Crisis Is a Gold Mine for Crowdfunding Between the bake sales and charity groups, they’re relying on sites like this to determine who receives their largesse. If only we had a Gofundme that worked on the national level, that could provide help to everyone, that everyone could chip in a bit to help ensure people don’t die to treatable afflictions. /sigh
Kay
@Corner Stone:
I think there is always a push-pull in law enforcement between “prevention” and collecting evidence for prosecution. They have to weigh how far to let things go before they intervene publicly because obviously making it known also makes it known to the offenders. So for something like fraud- for example- they would want to build a case that could prosecute the fraudster but they can’t go so far as to allow a bunch of people to get harmed – they can’t use them in a sort of “sting” without telling them that. So far I feel like they didn’t strike this balance very well. That they should have pulled the emergency cord and informed people no matter the harm that might have caused to their eventual case, but I don’t know of course. The sense I got from Comey was The Investigation was paramount, and it is, but there is a PUBLIC interest that demands the release of information in a timely manner. Elections are just about the best example of how timing is everything. They told us too late for the last election. I’d like to know why they did that- what the trade-off was.
Kelly
@scav:
I never dreamed freshman year of Shakespeare would have any bearing in the real world. I always found Lear the most fascinating of his plays.
D58826
just saw this on twitter but haven’t seen it anywhere else
.
schrodingers_cat
@hovercraft: Not true in India, caste is far more important in a traditional arranged marriage than skin color. And color and overall beauty matters for a woman far more than a man.
D58826
happened to run across this just now and it seems appropriate –
hovercraft
@D58826: @Kay:
Twitler’s tweets to his base to reinforce his message, it’s propaganda, repetition ingrains the message, which is why while we all laugh and mock his bullshit, they just eat it up, and nothing penetrates their bubble. He says it every time he speaks, and now they take it for granted that everything that is critical of him is a fake political hit job.
So yes like everything else that happens on his watch, he will not be responsible for any attack by not white males in this or any other country, it will be the judges, the democrats, Hillary and Obama’s fault. Twitler take it to new levels, but remember that 9/11 was Clinton’s fault for not making W take the threat from Al Qaeda seriously.
Corner Stone
@D58826: Not seeing it breaking anywhere but wouldn’t surprise me. I think I have seen it floated over the last 24 hours.
La Passionara
@rikyrah: You are correct, as usual. Also the male thing. thanks for all of your illuminating comments.
Corner Stone
@Kay: It seems somehow wrong to use the analogy of “an investigation”. Yes, we need to understand what happened before action can be taken to stop/counteract the damage. But it’s not like robbing a bank. There is not going to be a trial with a bad guy and evidence presented.
I agree their balance was off on this one, very off. National security played a very far second fiddle to domestic politics and we’re now going to spend untold amounts of years, money, and who knows what else it will cost us to finally root out what all happened.
I think the politics argument fails on its face. It is enraging to think about, frankly.
hovercraft
@D58826:
Haven’t seen that yet, but
Rosenstein declines questions about Sessions recusal
and
Who’s to say what’s unlawful, this is the same DOJ that argued last week that the emoluments clause doesn’t apply to Twitler.
Immanentize
@D58826: Yesterday I think Gin n Tonic mention the Sessions might invoke exec priv. But only the President can do that (actually usually white house counsel issues the order).
So if Sessions wants to keep conversations with the Pres confidential, Trump would have to order him to do so. There are other ways mentioned above that would allow Sessions to weasel.
dww44
@Waspuppet: Oh, they know all right. They are simply covering for their real motivation which is to return the country to the pre FDR Guilded Age. Saw Brian Lamb on his Q and A this past Sunday. He interviewed Paul Sparrow, head of the FDR Library in Hyde Park. Program was broadcast from there. Sparrow is an unabashed fan of FDR and fielded the leaded and loaded questions from Lamb (whom I’ve long seen as giving away the game of his political leanings) with unfailing equanimity. Here are some of Lamb’s comments and questions:
“How much does it cost to run this library? (Lamb came back to that one again and again)
“How would FDR feel about our 20 Trillion dollar deficit?”
“You do know that we will have to cut entitlements” when the interviewee talked about the New Deal and Social Security. Never once did Lamb indicate any approval or agreement with FDR’s successful efforts to lift the country out of the depths of depression.
I’m longing for a liberal spokesperson to push back on the idea that reducing the deficit must necessarily focus on reducing and eliminating programs that provide for the general welfare.
It is also true that every Republican I know DESPISES FDR because of what he did for the average citizen. Most are old enough to have personally benefited from those programs, particularly here in the South.
If you didn’t catch that program, you should take the time to watch it. I learned and remembered lots.
La Passionara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes. So many factors affecting their vote for Trump, and such a terrible result.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
There are a lot of really good questions to ask. The first thing I would ask is if state elections officials were notified, and if not, why not. Because we have this fucked up system where federal elections are run by states the people TO TELL would be state officials. It’s ludicrous to leave them out, no matter if telling them would mean it would become public.
The FBI is not allowed to let the robber break into our house so they can gather more evidence on the robber. They have to prevent the robbery if it’s in progress.
hovercraft
@schrodingers_cat:
Fortunately we don’t have a caste system in Zimbabwe, though I wouldn’t want my prospects dictated either by caste or the color of my skin. The vagaries of physical beauty are what we are all judged on the world over, so I have to live with that, don’t want or need any additional hurdles.
Corner Stone
I love how the Dignity Wraith is just sucking the soul right out of everyone around him. How much further can they debase themselves before Trump tosses them aside for new dignity pots? I think we’re going to be finding out!
hovercraft
Andy Lack is looking like a real genius.
OPINION: NBC needs to pull Kelly’s interview Alex Jones
By Joe Concha, opinion contributor – 06/13/17 11:10 AM EDT
Kay
@Corner Stone:
We have a MANN unit here. Multi Area Narcotics. What they do is they put confidential informants among drug sellers and buyers and then go in and arrest everyone. But they get greedy and they don’t just want the local seller, they want the next person up the chain. So they let it go on a while. But they can’t let it go on too long or they’re allowing illegal things to occur and individual people to be harmed in pursuit of their larger investigatory goal. That’s the push-pull.
rikyrah
There are 24 headlines on CNN’s homepage right now and none of them tell you that 23 million fewer ppl stand to lose their health insurance pic.twitter.com/QZpBBKoR2P
— Jeff Stein (@JStein_Vox) June 13, 2017
Why activists are so worried about flagging coverage of health bill. Big spike b4 1st vote, then again post-House passage. Now: nothing pic.twitter.com/GYmj8wDyHv
— Jeff Stein (@JStein_Vox) June 12, 2017
rikyrah
At congressional hearing, Deputy AG Rosenstein just told senators said he sees no reason for firing Robert Mueller as Special Counsel
— Bradd Jaffy (@BraddJaffy) June 13, 2017
schrodingers_cat
@hovercraft: I am just telling you what things are like, not that they are ideal.
rikyrah
I really don’t think most people understand how incredibly close we are to losing our republic to authoritarian rule.
— leah mcelrath ? (@leahmcelrath) June 13, 2017
⚡️ “PUTIN’S COUP AGAINST AMERICA” by @leahmcelrathhttps://t.co/ePBxxLur2Y
— leah mcelrath ? (@leahmcelrath) June 13, 2017
hovercraft
@schrodingers_cat:
I know, no society is perfect, we all have good aspects and terrible ones. Depending on where and how one was raised, what those are differs. At this point there is no ideal, only degrees of less bad ;(
Women have a long way to go, as does creating a society that is completely free of prejudice.
Gin & Tonic
@Immanentize: Warn’t me. I know I have that kind of face that people confuse with others, though.
Jeffro
@Uncle Cosmo: Oh, you’re quite welcome.
Gin & Tonic
I see on the Twitter machine that the Warriors have unanimously decided not to visit the White House as NBA champions. I hope it’s true.
Iowa Old Lady
@Kay: His most frequent tweet claims are that the 9th circuit enables terrorists and the press are all liars. That’s not an accident.
Kay
@Corner Stone:
It wouldn’t be the first time for the FBI. I don’t know if you read anything about Whitey Bulger, but that’s what the basic accusation was there. That the FBI let Bulger kill a bunch a people because they were using him to reach “organized crime”, which they were obsessed with. They sacrificed individuals to their larger goal- they needed Bulger so they let him run rampant. That’s what the family members of the victims say. They say the FBI should have been prosecuted too.
D58826
old thin skin –
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-blocks-veterans-group-on-twitter/ar-BBCCMKf?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
sc
Speaking of terrorists in our midst, it seems that the US media are finally beginning to notice that two white prisoners have killed guards in a jailbreak and are out, being economically insecure at large. (personally having learned of it a good hour or so ago from the britpress)
Kay
@Iowa Old Lady:
Unlike Obama, Donald Trump has had (relative) peace and prosperity since he took office. Yet he’s such a whiner!
Corner Stone
@Kay: My understanding of Bulger was that he played both sides of coin to whatever purpose suited him at the time. There’s probably a lot more nuance there but that’s about what I took away from the whole thing.
This is where I get a little troubled. Because this isn’t law enforcement. This isn’t simply a hack/re-hack battle going on in cyberspace. This was something that called for exposure in a methodical manner. Inform the citizenry, and let them take it or leave it and make their next choices. The bottom line, to me anyway, is that this was not their decision to make. Especially for domestic politics.
Gin & Tonic
@Kay: The FBI wasn’t, but former Special Agent John Connolly is still serving time in Florida on his murder conviction.
D58826
Al Jazeera is reporting that the US Amb. to Qatar is leaving after 3 years. No reason given but bad time to not have an amb. in-country.
And that is another major story that has pretty much dropped off the news map
rikyrah
Why Did Republicans Protect Russian Hacking Prior to the Election?
by Nancy LeTourneau
June 13, 2017 10:22 AM
Bloomberg Politics has an important story today outlining the extensive attempts by Russia to hack U.S. voting systems.
The article goes on to say that during this time, the main concern of the Obama administration was that the Russians were preparing to launch a disruptive attack on the vote. That is why, back in August 2016, Sec. of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson proposed the idea of designating the country’s voting systems as “critical infrastructure,” like the financial sector and the power grid.
Reuters notes that Republicans balked at the idea. As an example, here is what the Heritage Foundation wrote about it at the time.
Big Picture Pathologist
There was a comic about a year ago that pointed out Breaking Bad never would have happened if Walter White were able to get coverage for his cancer treatments.
D58826
@Kay: And I wonder how that all came about. Surely that Kenyan, socialist communist MOOOOOSLIM with the big ears had nothing to do with it. Na not a chance
NorthLeft12
I consider myself to be a compassionate and empathic person, but I have a real hard time feeling sorry for Mr. Davidson’s relative. I don’t have all the details, but what is the issue with seeking and paying for proper health care? People that short change their own [or their family’s] well being and health to save a few bucks is just not thinking the situation through.
Yeah, this probably sounds judgmental, but I am getting tired of hearing about this. And get ready, under Trumpcare you will see another wave of these kind of stories as young and “healthy” people avoid treating or reporting issues so that they can save a few bucks today.
Gin & Tonic
@D58826: That’s a fairly standard length of posting for career officers.
D58826
@rikyrah:
And on 12/06/41 the US Navy has no credible evidence that airplanes could sink battleships. (and for the history geeks – Billy Mitchell in 1925 didn’t count as credible he was Army and what do solders know about ships)
Peale
@D58826: I do think we’re going to be in a situation soon where the actual criminals have put a former secretary of state and presidential candidate and two former attorney generals in jail to cover up their own business dealings with Russia.
D58826
@Gin & Tonic: that’s what the article said but I suspect that under any other POTUS either a replacement would have been lined up or she would have been asked to stay on for a bit given the events in the Gulf at the moment. But I’m sure Der Fuhrer will let the King of SA handle it
Peale
@D58826: They didn’t need to sink all of the battleships, btw. Just ones that were vulnerable sitting ducks would do.
Jeffro
A pretty astute take here: J-Rubs on “The Vultures of the Right”
Here she is explaining why Rs won’t move on Trumpov not now, maybe not ’til 2018 or beyond:
hovercraft
Oh look Lucretia’s doing a really bang up job of spreading goodwill towards the United States, and she’s supposedly the smartest of the bunch.
Ivanka Trump Incorrectly Names Judaism As 1 Of The 3 ‘Largest World Religions’
The president’s daughter left out several major faiths, including Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism.
i guess if you spend your life in Manhattan you get the impression that Jews are a disproportionate part of the population, but the fact that her dad’s buddy Bibi is always going on about the existential threat posed to the Jews by “terrorism” should be a hint that there aren’t that many Jews in the world.
Hey but I’m sure the world understands that this is all hard and so new to the poor dear, we need to cut her some slack, she’s had a hard go of it.
D58826
@Peale: Actually the one Mitchell sank was a sitting duck, as well. So were the ships attacked at the Royal Navy base in Scapa Flow and the Italian navy at Tarantino(sp). The Prince of Wales/Repulse were sunk in the open ocean as well as a number of Japanese battleships, including the worlds largest Yamato off of Okinawa.
D58826
@hovercraft: She would have been a bit closer to the truth if she had said the three monotheistic Abrahamic religions.
D58826
@Jeffro: I’ll say one thing when you have J. Rubin, D. Frum, and a number of other conservative commentators on the same page as the lefties it gives new meaning to the phrase ‘war (or in this case politics) makes for strange bedfellows’.
hovercraft
@D58826: @Gin & Tonic:
That may be the standard length of a posting, but given the situation on the ground, it wouldn’t be unusual for his stay to be extended till his/her replacement was in place. I read an article a couple of weeks ago about the frustration in our embassies around the world over having to spend so much of their time soothing ruffled feathers rather than engaging in “normal” diplomacy. Would you want to stay to deal with the mixed messages coming from Rex and Twitler? Factor in that he could ask you to stay one day and then turn around the next day and demand your resignation, it’s not worth it.
hovercraft
@D58826:
What’s that? Oh you mean that the religions “those” people practice? She thought by including Muslims, she was showing how very cosmopolitan and tolerant they are, darn it! This stuff really is complicated : (
rikyrah
Republicans lack public support for new health care scheme
06/13/17 11:20 AM
By Steve Benen
………………………..
The PPP data is consistent with what we’ve seen from several other pollsters. The latest national Quinnipiac survey, for example, found that only 17% of Americans approve of the Republican health care plan. The most recent Fox News poll showed an identical result: just 17% of the public likes the GOP proposal.
A Kaiser Family Foundation survey found that only 8% – that’s not a typo, it’s literally 8% – of the country wants the House Republican’s bill, which Trump heralded as a triumph of politics and policy, to be become law.
Republicans are no doubt aware of this. Indeed, it helps explain why they’re trying so desperately to legislate in secret. But as an electoral matter, for GOP policymakers to ignore Americans’ attitudes on life-and-death legislation is to play with fire. Given partisan instincts and widespread tribalism, it practically takes effort to come up with a proposal as unpopular as the Republican health care plan – but they’ve managed to pull it off anyway.
D58826
@hovercraft: There was a comment in the article that she was frustrated by the events back home and the need to constantly explain to the locals that, all appearances to the contrary, the US was not one gigantic loony bin,
I guess she can now come home and try and convince us
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@D58826:
Sorry, I was reading about the Royal Navy’s Taranto raid in 1940 were the British sunk three battleships in a defended port using biplanes. What was that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Taranto
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Jeffro: I think even that is overthinking it – this is a collection of old people driven by fear in a kind of mass panic and incapable of rational thought. Look at their health care bill, those Republican Congressmen know perfectly well it’s career death to go threw with it and even their own base will loath them for passing it, yet they can’t stop themselves. Conservatives have been living in an information bubble since the 90s, they don’t know how to deal with reality or even how to think.
D58826
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: From the US Navy’s perspective it never happened. The further irony is that some of the war games in the 1930’s were based on a dawn carrier based attack on the ships in Pearl Harbor. I think one of the attack groups was commanded by Bull Halsey. Another lesson the Navy and the Army failed to learn before 12/7 was the value of using radar as part of an air defense system. The Battle of Britain apparently didn’t happen either. The Hawaii command was furnished with 8 radar units, one fixed and 7 mobile. The fixed unit was the one in operation on 12/7
D58826
My extremely cynical explaination for the GOP’s reaction to the hacking is:
1. They are grateful to Putin for giving them total control in Washington.
2. They appreciate the fact that they can proceed with their back to the 17th century agenda. and
3. They aren’t worried that future hacking could be directed at them because the total control in DC will allow them to finish their voting suppression agenda. With that complete the House, at least, will be safely in their hands till 2030. While the Senate and POTUS may flip on occasion, the House will block every attempt of a democratic POTUS/Senate to do anything. Just like between 2011-2014. And for most of the GOP what happens after 2030 is for the young’ns to take care of
D58826
Well the Senate has come up with a neat solution to pesky reporters asking annoying questions. :from NBC Kasie Hunt
https://twitter.com/kasie/status/874650189885263872
Jeffro
@D58826:
True enough.
I don’t mind having principled conservatives in my trench when the Nazis…or the Russians…or both…are trying to take over *our* country.
D58826
@Jeffro: There was a time when ‘principled’ conservatives such as Hugh Scott, Ev Dirkson, Jacob Javets, and even Barry Goldwater could work with the democrats and get things done.
It was after all the moderately conservative GOP (but not Goldwater) that supplied to votes for the civil rights/voting rights acts of the mid 60’s. Many of of the safety net budget battles were over the exact amount to be spent not that the program should not exist. The D’s wanted 60 billion for SNAP, the R’s 20 and they settled on 40 billion. Which every one knew going in was going to be the number. But each side had to do a bit of strutting for the home folks. Ike was quite open in having learned to live with the New Deal.
D58826
More on the Senate’s news censorship from huffington
You know this is getting ridiculous. The GOP and Trump can’t even overthrow the government with any kind of efficiency. Let’s just declare martial law, burn the Constitution and eliminate the Congress and the courts. At least it would save some money.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/journalists-congress-media_us_59400933e4b0b13f2c6e238b?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
schrodingers_cat
@hovercraft: Not a slip tongue, that’s what white supremacists believe or so I was told. There are only 3 religions that can be called great. Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
As religions that have existed long before Mary conceived Jesus, Hinduism and Buddhism don’t require an endorsement by the vapid princess.
WVm
@Kay:
“Megyn Kelly is also a voter fraud conspiracy theorist, if anyone cares.”
She’s a supporter of the Nazi-KKK-cause, end of biography. Well, one more part, she loves those million dollar pay day events!!