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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Consistently wrong since 2002

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

I didn’t have alien invasion on my 2023 BINGO card.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

T R E 4 5 O N

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Happy Independence Day, Y’All

Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Happy Independence Day, Y’All

by Anne Laurie|  July 4, 20175:56 am| 228 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, Open Threads, Daydream Believers

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A Happy Fourth Reminder From The Army Of The West pic.twitter.com/UJotXiqkSC

— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) July 3, 2017

David Remnick, in the New Yorker, “American Dignity on the Fourth of July”:

More than three-quarters of a century after the delegates of the Second Continental Congress voted to quit the Kingdom of Great Britain and declared that “all men are created equal,” Frederick Douglass stepped up to the lectern at Corinthian Hall, in Rochester, New York, and, in an Independence Day address to the Ladies of the Rochester Anti-Slavery Sewing Society, made manifest the darkest ironies embedded in American history and in the national self-regard. “What, to the American slave, is your 4th of July?” Douglass asked:

I answer; a day that reveals to him, more than all other days in the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is the constant victim. To him, your celebration is a sham; your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciations of tyrants, brass fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade, and solemnity, are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy—a thin veil to cover up crimes which would disgrace a nation of savages. There is not a nation on the earth guilty of practices, more shocking and bloody, than are the people of these United States, at this very hour.

The dissection of American reality, in all its complexity, is essential to political progress, and yet it rarely goes unpunished. One reason that the Republican right and its attendant media loathed Barack Obama is that his public rhetoric, while far more buoyant with post-civil-rights-era uplift than Douglass’s, was also an affront to reactionary pieties. Even as Obama tried to win votes, he did not paper over the duality of the American condition: its idealism and its injustices; its heroism in the fight against Fascism and its bloody misadventures before and after. His idea of a patriotic song was “America the Beautiful”—not in its sentimental ballpark versions but the way that Ray Charles sang it, as a blues, capturing the “fullness of the American experience, the view from the bottom as well as the top.”

Donald Trump, who, in fairness, has noted that “Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job,” represents an entirely different tradition. He has no interest in the wholeness of reality. He descends from the lineage of the Know-Nothings, the doomsayers and the fabulists, the nativists and the hucksters. The thematic shift from Obama to Trump has been from “lifting as we climb” to “raising the drawbridge and bolting the door.” Trump may operate a twenty-first-century Twitter machine, but he is still a frontier-era drummer peddling snake oil, juniper tar, and Dr. Tabler’s Buckeye Pile Cure for profit from the back of a dusty wagon…

Frederick Douglass ended his Independence Day jeremiad in Rochester with steadfast optimism (“I do not despair of this country”). Read his closing lines, and what despair you might feel when listening to a President who abets ignorance, isolation, and cynicism is eased, at least somewhat. The “mental darkness” of earlier times is done, Douglass reminded his audience. “Intelligence is penetrating the darkest corners of the globe.” There is yet hope for the “great principles” of the Declaration of Independence and “the genius of American Institutions.” There was reason for optimism then, as there is now. Donald Trump is not forever. Sometimes it just seems that way.

So seriously, what happens if Mueller lays it all on the table and GOP Congress STILL doesn't give a shit? https://t.co/H28Vk4pYGF

— ?? Charles Gaba ?? (@charles_gaba) July 1, 2017

Then we have a frank discussion with the American people in 2018 about this.

— Neera Tanden (@neeratanden) July 1, 2017

Funnily enough, the United States was born in revolt against a mad king.

— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) July 1, 2017

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Reader Interactions

228Comments

  1. 1.

    NotMax

    July 4, 2017 at 6:30 am

    Happy holiday, with a musical salutation commissioned by and named for a certain press outlet.

  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 6:32 am

    Sometimes I wish I’d had another son, I would have named him William Tecumseh.

  3. 3.

    Elizabelle

    July 4, 2017 at 6:32 am

    Happy 4th, y’all. Enjoy up. Keep those pets safe from fireworks (the ones that don’t like the booms).

    This is the oddest 4th of July ever. We are living through a historic time, with no idea what is ahead in the next months. But events gather steam.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 6:42 am

    Merry Christmas everyone.

    This 4th of July is special because, for the first time in living memory, we seriously question whether the right to elect our own government was a good idea.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 6:46 am

    So seriously, what happens if Mueller lays it all on the table and GOP Congress STILL doesn’t give a shit?

    We blame Democrats!

  6. 6.

    ThresherK

    July 4, 2017 at 6:47 am

    I shoulda remembered this for Canada Day,m but better late, etc: Blacks left the new USA, in some number, for the British settlements in (now) maritime Canada for just such the reason described.

    I was an adult when I learned this. Curious where it is taught in school.

  7. 7.

    WereBear

    July 4, 2017 at 6:51 am

    @ThresherK: Not in the US, I’d wager :)

    Yes, the cats will be unhappy today. But taking them somewhere else out of boom range would be worse. Poor bunch.

    Everyone be Independent today!

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 6:52 am

    tRump’s Presidency claims it’s first political victim: Wagner makes surprise announcement that she won’t challenge McCaskill in 2018

    “Those who know me well know I put my family and the wealthy first,” Wagner, R-Ballwin, said in a statement. “While I am grateful for the incredible support and encouragement I have received from across Missouri to run for United States Senate, I am announcing today my intention to run for re-election to the United States House of Representatives in 2018.

    “The Second District is my well gerrymandered home,” Wagner’s statement continued. “It’s where I grew up, went to school, have worked and volunteered, raised my kids, and attend church every week — there is no greater honor than representing a place and people that I love, and besides, Donald tRump has destroyed any chances I might’ve had to win a state wide election, even in blood red Misery.”

  9. 9.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 6:55 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Refreshingly honest.

    ETA: Seriously, that’s good news.

  10. 10.

    Mustang Bobby

    July 4, 2017 at 6:59 am

    For the first time in memory, I have no plans for today; no car show, no picnic under the fireworks, nothing. I’m looking forward to it; I might get some writing done.

  11. 11.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:04 am

    Living the thug life. One look at the face in that mug shot would be enough to make me cross the street.

  12. 12.

    PaulWartenberg

    July 4, 2017 at 7:05 am

    Always my favorite bit from 1776:
    https://youtu.be/sDQifeErMHY

  13. 13.

    Derelict

    July 4, 2017 at 7:05 am

    Yeah, I don’t see Republicans lifting one finger to do anything about Trump no matter what the crimes. At this point, he could rape and murder a 6-year-old girl on live TV, and Ryan and McConnell would be on the screen within minutes to explain that it’s really okay because the president didn’t actually mean to kill the kid. And besides, that 6-year-old was no angel, you know.

    The GOP disgusts me.

  14. 14.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 7:10 am

    Happy 4th of July to everyone at Balloon Juice. Has Trump tweeted greetings to winners and losers yet?

    @Derelict: Well while the GOP is useless, I don’t think they can ignore the results of Mueller’s investigation if they are devastating for their President. I assume Mueller will publicize his findings and the American public (most of whom did not vote for the Orange Bigot) will demand that action be taken. No way Republicans would hold onto Congress under those circumstances.

  15. 15.

    MattF

    July 4, 2017 at 7:11 am

    The only way Trump will be abandoned by Republicans is if he becomes a liability in the voting booth. This means the economy will have to be in the toilet next year, stinking up the joint and on the verge of being flushed. It’s a real possiblity, giiven that the automobile industry and home construction are both sinking fast. I hate hoping for disaster– it’s a version of the ‘worse is better’ argument– but that’s where we are now.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:16 am

    @MattF: We can’t and shouldn’t count on external events IMHO.

  17. 17.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:18 am

    @Baud: Yeah, it is good news. Somebody will run against Claire, and knowing how prion diseased stupid my state has become they will still have a fair chance of winning. But Wagner’s dropping out is an acknowledgement that tRump is making a statewide run far more difficult than she is willing to take on and that for her to have a viable political future, her safest bet is to just stay in the 2nd district.

  18. 18.

    p.a.

    July 4, 2017 at 7:21 am

    Happy 4th everyone. As a kid, Christmas was the Big Kahuna, but that was adults showering down presents on us. Growing up when everything beyond sparklers was illegal, the 4th was ours. Black market booms we scrimped and saved to buy, spiriting them home in brown paper lunch bags, dreading the cops and their “what’s in the bag?” enquiries. “Lunch.” “Lemme see.” DAMN.
    Mom & dad: “don’t start any fires. Don’t lose a finger.” “Don’t worry.”
    The 4th and Halloween. Our days.

  19. 19.

    Iowa Old Lady

    July 4, 2017 at 7:22 am

    @Derelict: Also, he’s new at being president. You can’t expect him to have known he shouldn’t do that.

  20. 20.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:22 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I don’t think they can ignore the results of Mueller’s investigation if they are devastating for their President.

    No, they won’t be able to. Hence the efforts by so many of the GOP to kneecap the investigation before it really gets going.

  21. 21.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 7:23 am

    Maryland’s deputy Secretary of State has resigned from a controversial Trump administration panel probing alleged voter fraud in last year’s presidential election.
    Deputy Secretary of State Luis E. Borunda, a former Baltimore County school board member, informed the Hogan administration Monday that he resigned from Trump’s Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity, according to Hogan spokesman Doug Mayer.
    Mayer said Borunda joined Trump’s 15-member bipartisan panel “on his own,” and was not appointed by the governor.
    “He informed our office he has resigned from the commission,” Mayer said. Borunda did not respond to a request for comment.

    Borunda’s appointment prompted some head scratching in Maryland. Unlike in many other states, the Secretary of State’s office in Maryland has no role in voter registration or the administration of elections.

    It was dumb to join but the smarter people can still get off fast before it turns into even more of a clusterfuck.

    In some cases, the Trump Team sent requests for info to the wrong place so they might have not known that the Sec of State office in Maryland doesn’t administer elections.

  22. 22.

    satby

    July 4, 2017 at 7:23 am

    Happy Holiday to those who have it off. I do too (yay) and my big plans involve a deep dive house cleaning, in the hope that I can paint the guest bedroom tomorrow. But I have a nice grass-fed ribeye, blue potatoes, and three kinds of mushrooms to cook for dinner, so there’s that.

  23. 23.

    BC in Illinois

    July 4, 2017 at 7:25 am

    Langston Hughes

    O, let America be America again —
    The land that never has been yet —
    And yet must be
    The land where every man is free.
    The land that’s mine — the poor man’s, Indian’s, Negro’s, ME–
    Who made America.
    Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain
    Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
    Must bring back our mighty dream again.

    From “Let America Be America Again.”

    The land I love, and served, and pledge to, is a land that has never been yet a nation “indivisible,” “with liberty and justice for all,” And yet must be these things, if we are to be, at all, a nation.

    I celebrate its birthday. Let’s work to make the next birthdays better. As President Obama somewhere said (or at least quoted), the truths and all may be self-evident, but they are not self-executing. We need to put them into practice.

  24. 24.

    Sab

    July 4, 2017 at 7:28 am

    @Elizabelle: My cat spent the night in the basement. He looks very grumpy this morning. He has no plans to come upstairs today.

  25. 25.

    Elizabelle

    July 4, 2017 at 7:29 am

    @Baud: that will only go so far.

    I cannot say whether a year from now things will look better or worse. We need to ensure the Trump disaster gets welded to the GOP too, and it takes them out too.

    President Pelosi!

    Or caretaker POTUS Obama. Or overturn the election and seat the popular vote winner.

  26. 26.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:31 am

    @satby: You only need one kind of mushroom if it’s the right kind.

  27. 27.

    Elizabelle

    July 4, 2017 at 7:31 am

    @Sab: His bid for internet stardom.

  28. 28.

    gene108

    July 4, 2017 at 7:32 am

    @Baud:

    Merry Christmas, Baud!

    This must be what the December Christmas is like in Australia.

    Sunny, hot, weather, with cook outs and maybe a day at the beach, if you are close enough (and don’t live in NJ, where beaches are closed).

  29. 29.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:34 am

    @gene108:

    and don’t live in NJ, where beaches are close

    Run for governor if you got a problem with that.

  30. 30.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 7:34 am

    Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach asked a federal court this week to reconsider sanctions imposed against him after the judge ruled he made “patently misleading representations” to the court about the contents of voting rights documents he was photographed holding while meeting with Donald Trump in November.
    In June, U.S. Magistrate Judge James O’Hara fined Kobach $1,000 and ruled that lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union could question him in an ongoing lawsuit over a Kansas voter registration law passed in 2011. The sanctions came as Kobach, a Republican, has been thrust into the national spotlight as the vice chairman of Trump’s presidential commission on election integrity. He is also running for governor of Kansas.
    Kobach filed a motion to reconsider the “manifestly unjust” sanctions Thursday, saying he didn’t intentionally mislead the court. Instead, he said, he eliminated four pages of arguments from a brief his attorney was drafting in order to get it down to the page limit as a filing deadline approached. In the Thursday motion, Kobach says that last-minute cut eliminated crucial context in the 30-page brief for his argument for why the NVRA amendment documents were irrelevant to the lawsuit and that his attorney lacked time to review the edits because Kobach sent them to him at 10:30 p.m. on the day the brief was due.

    In a way it doesn’t matter. The ACLU wanted to depose Kobach, which they got, and I think they got that partly because he lied in the brief.

  31. 31.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 7:37 am

    I’m going to the Kiwanis pancake breakfast and then I’m going to work at the (closed) office where I will alternate between feeling sorry for myself for having to work and being glad no one else is there and it’s quiet :)

  32. 32.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:39 am

    AAAAACK AAAACK AAAAACK, gag me with a spoon:

    Helen Aguirre Ferré, the director of media affairs at the White House, added: “Upon learning of baby Charlie Gard’s situation, President Trump has offered to help the family in this heartbreaking situation.

    But the children of America’s working poor can just suck it.

  33. 33.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 7:41 am

    @Kay:

    In some cases, the Trump Team sent requests for info to the wrong place so they might have not known that the Sec of State office in Maryland doesn’t administer elections.

    The incompetent twits didn’t do their homework.

    Why am I unsurprised at this?

  34. 34.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 7:44 am

    @Kay: The vile creature doesn’t realize that he’s digging deeper, does he?

    This man should be made an example of.

  35. 35.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:44 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Why won’t they let them bring the baby to the U.S.? Assuming it’s on their own dime.

  36. 36.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 4, 2017 at 7:45 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Trump has a history with charity, and it is not a flattering one. While I hope the child gets help and not straight-out stiffed, this will turn into another demonstration of Trump’s greed, cruelty, and dishonesty. Fast.

  37. 37.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:45 am

    @Kay: Ah yes, the old “My dog ate my homework” excuse.

  38. 38.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:45 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: At least they knew Maryland was a state. #GOPCurve

  39. 39.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:46 am

    @gene108: @Baud:

    “He did not get any sun. He was wearing a baseball cap.”

    His spokesperson actually said that.

  40. 40.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:47 am

    @Kay: If I were the judge, I’d make him produce the email.

  41. 41.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 7:48 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Terri Schiavo II, Electric Boogaloo.

    I saw where Sekulow is grifting it.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:48 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: He’s term limited, and voters don’t punish Republicans collectively like they do Democrats.

  43. 43.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 7:49 am

    @Derelict:

    At this point, he could rape and murder a 6-year-old girl on live TV, and Ryan and McConnell would be on the screen within minutes to explain that it’s really okay because the president didn’t actually mean to kill the kid. And besides, that 6-year-old was no angel, you know.

    I mean…the way she was dressed, she was asking for it.

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Also, he’s new at being president. You can’t expect him to have known he shouldn’t do that.

    It’s not like basic questions of ethics are applicable to anyone who doesn’t hold political office.

  44. 44.

    ThresherK

    July 4, 2017 at 7:50 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: When Trump says “I’ll help”, all I can imagine is a dozen charity jelly jars at Trump properties next to the “Got a Penny? Leave a Penny. Need a Penny? Get a Job”* tray.

    (*Lifted from the last iteration of Walt Kelly’s Pogo.)

  45. 45.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 7:51 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    This is the absolute worst way to deal with policy involving children but politicians always, always do it. The cases are complicated. The facts are specific. The last thing anyone needs is crusaders helicoptering in with their “gut feelings” because people have strong feelings about children and those are rooted in their own experiences and biases. The more high profile people join in the dumber the result will be. What you need is careful people who will be practical- not ruthless or unfeeling but sensible and not going off on wild tangents- and if you have those people 99% of the time you can resolve it by consent and you don’t need any new laws. This won’t help anyone- not the parents, not the child, and not children who come after this child. People go nuts where children are concerned which is understandable but is to be resisted not indulged. Less heat, more light.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:51 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Terri Schiavo II, Electric Boogaloo.

    A little different. Schiavo was about which family member could make the decision to end life support. This seems to be the parents vs the hospital.

  47. 47.

    debbie

    July 4, 2017 at 7:51 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    “Well gerrymandered home?” How obnoxious to gloat bout that.

  48. 48.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 7:51 am

    @Baud: All I know is it’s a European legal thing:

    Last week the European court of human rights rejected an appeal by Chris Gard and Connie Yates, Charlie’s parents, to be allowed to take their son to the US, following a similar ruling by the UK’s supreme court. Medical specialists had argued that the treatment was experimental and would not help.

  49. 49.

    Lapassionara

    July 4, 2017 at 7:51 am

    Happy Fourth of July, everyone.

    Years ago, I found a slim Grange songbook, in a little antique store in a small Kansas town. I purchased it for my mother, who loved US history. It was published in 1891, in Winfield, KS. Here is one verse of the songbook’s version of “My Country ‘Tis of Thee:”

    “My country, ‘this of Thee, Land of lost Liberty,
    Of thee we sing. Land which the Millionaires, Who govern our affairs,
    Own for them-selves and heirs, Hail, to thy King.”

    The last verse starts with these prescient words:”My Country ‘this of thee, Betrayed by bribery, . . ..”

    These are the songs I will be singing today.

  50. 50.

    BC in Illinois

    July 4, 2017 at 7:52 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    As a resident of Ann Wagner’s well-gerrymandered district, I am hopeful that her private polling told her that, for the first time, she may need to work (rather than coast) for her re-election. She won her district by the same margin (58% to 37%) that Trump won Missouri. I dare say that Trump’s numbers are lower now.

    And there is a group — “Missouri 2nd District for Change” — pointing out her three-term history of never holding town hall meetings; publicizing that, under Ann Wagner-backed Trumpcare, 328,000 people in her district stand to lose health coverage; making good use of a picture of her shaking hands with Trump on the occasion of their great victory in making sure that financial advisors will not be required to act in the best interests of their constituents.

    She has spent her time in congress as a safe Republican vote, staying out of sight, picking up money from the finance industry, and coasting. I’m sure her negative numbers are on their way up — and am hopeful that 2018 may be a bad year for safe, tame Republicans.

    We still need to recruit the candidate to beat her, though.

  51. 51.

    MattF

    July 4, 2017 at 7:53 am

    @Frankensteinbeck: My thought exactly. Trump’s attitude toward ‘charity’ is ‘…and where’s my share?’

  52. 52.

    rikyrah

    July 4, 2017 at 7:54 am

    Good Morning,Everyone ???

  53. 53.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 7:54 am

    @Mustang Bobby:

    For the first time in memory, I have no plans for today

    People of a certain age remember going to a scheduled double header on July 4.
    For many years my broadcasting job included leading up to the Boston concert/fireworks show, from behind the shell. I got kind of blase about it. 1976, though was the first really big one (~400k people) and the then future mrs efg sat on a tree root beside the shell. We didn’t realize how close to the howitzer battery we were….

  54. 54.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:54 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Based on my limited knowledge of the facts, I guess I disagree with this. If the parents can afford it and the experimental treatment isn’t inhumane, I can’t think of a reason they shouldn’t be allowed to try it.

  55. 55.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:54 am

    @rikyrah: Good morning.

  56. 56.

    Just One More Canuck

    July 4, 2017 at 7:55 am

    @ThresherK: Africville in Halifax

    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/africville/

  57. 57.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 7:55 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s nice to see that Trump is willing to use government resources to help open the American healthcare system to foreigners…as long as they’re white, pretty, and wealthy.

  58. 58.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 7:55 am

    If Ann Wagner’s son actually is a 2011 West Point grad, a captain, and is an infantry platoon leader, he’s one of the worst cases of military arrested development I’ve ever heard of.

    I suspect the reporter at the link got some facts horribly wrong.

  59. 59.

    MattF

    July 4, 2017 at 7:56 am

    @Baud: Also, the contending parties are different in Europe– the government plays a different role, for one thing. I doubt that there’s a comparable US analogy.

  60. 60.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 7:56 am

    @BC in Illinois:

    We still need to recruit the candidate to beat her, though.

    Ahem.

    As a resident of Ann Wagner’s well-gerrymandered district

  61. 61.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 7:58 am

    @Baud: The child is in excruciating pain. The treatment won’t help. The child has little chance to live any sort of life other than one of excruciating pain even if the treatment works.

    This is insane, and it’s insane that Donald (and Pope Francis) jumped into this.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 7:59 am

    @Baud:

    After the lie the judge said they could depose him where before the lie it was written interrogatories so sanction or not he’s been hurt by the lie.

    I found out he can’t search immigration records using names- the system wasn’t designed for merging with election systems, I imagine it was designed to search petition progress- so either he doesn’t know that or he isn’t using it to cross check immigration records which leaves me with the question of how he was cross checking in Kansas.

  63. 63.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @debbie: As Baud said, “Refreshingly honest” which means that I put that in there. Other stuff too.

  64. 64.

    bystander

    July 4, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: On my maternal grandmother’s side, they reportedly named a “Sherman” in every generation after the war. My uncle was the last of the line to observe the tradition. OTOH my mother’s name is in every generation in the family from their arrival in North America in 1635. Puritans who became ardent anti-abolitionists and from there to hardcore old line Republicans. Whocouldanode?

  65. 65.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: It’s a question of who gets to make that decision for the kid.

  66. 66.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @efgoldman:

    We didn’t realize how close to the howitzer battery we were….

    Those suckers are LOUD, aren’t they?

  67. 67.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:00 am

    @debbie:

    “Well gerrymandered home?” How obnoxious to gloat bout that.

    I don’t remember seeing the “well-gerrymandered” part in the original article. I think Ozark may have taken liberties with the quote.

  68. 68.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 8:01 am

    @Baud:

    Merry Christmas everyone.

    Isn’t it great to have a President who allows us to say “Merry Christmas” again?

  69. 69.

    raven

    July 4, 2017 at 8:03 am

    My ancestor, Jason J Figg of the 11th Tennessee , was killed at the Battle of Atlanta. He and his brother were in the Confederate Army and their father was a Union Soldier. I don’t know why any of them fought on which side and neither do any of you.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 8:03 am

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    It’s just that people with a broader agenda relying on one (bad) case always make it worse. They try to do this impossible and contradictory thing where they clearly have an agenda which takes it OUT of the specific fact set but they insist it is about the individual child. They can’t pull it off. The child (or children if they set broader policy) inevitably end up under their agenda-bus. Always.

  71. 71.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 8:04 am

    @Baud:

    Same reactionary US political demographics have been invoked, however. The primary function that I’m seeing is a bunch of railing against single payer because of gubmint death panels. Far better to have unaccountable corporate death panels for investor and corporate officer profit by pre-existing condition underwriting, arbitrary “we’re pulling from this market” policy terminations, and cherry picking.

  72. 72.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 8:05 am

    @Baud: Shrug… Due to my ignorance I have no opinion.

  73. 73.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 8:05 am

    @Mustang Bobby: Same here. Got to sleep in and will relax the rest of the day. Folks in my neighborhood set off illegal fireworks at night so that part is covered.

  74. 74.

    coozledad

    July 4, 2017 at 8:05 am

    @ThresherK: Slaveholders and merchants who had a stake in the expanding slave economy left Britain because they knew abolition was coming.
    The revolution was the first war for slavery.

  75. 75.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: I agree with that. How quickly would the parents have hit the lifetime cap if it were permitted again.

  76. 76.

    ThresherK

    July 4, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @Lapassionara: The Grange. I joined for social benefits, as some good friends in college were members.

    I discovered the Grange was inveighing against Secular Humanism in the later stages of Reagan’s reign, and one of my hipper friends asked, “So, when are you giving up the Grange?”

    All the things they coulda been ahead of the curve on, regarding farm policy, climate change, water quality/shortages, hog lagoons, the depopulating prairie towns, insecticide/fertilizer pollution, the money-making potential of small-scale and heirloom farming of produce (as compared to competing to raise livestock under contract, or sell grain to Armour and the like), but noooo.

    They had to throw in with the “oh noes, Secular Humanism is a religion!” types.

  77. 77.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I’ve never let that stop me!

  78. 78.

    Bobby Thomson

    July 4, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @Baud: Duh.

    Seriously, though, what happens if Mueller lays it all on the table, Congressional Republicans still don’t give a shit, and voters also don’t give a shit or Russians steal another one? I can’t think of a period in American history when there has been a sudden and massive lurch in one direction, only to be followed by another sudden and massive lurch in the other direction four years later. Democrats are still not lining up to challenge Congressional seats, and nationalizing elections still seems to work against us. Barring another child diddling black swan like Mark Foley, I’m very pessimistic about future elections.

  79. 79.

    debbie

    July 4, 2017 at 8:06 am

    @BC in Illinois:

    Lawrence Ferlinghetti similarly:

    I am waiting for my case to come up
    and I am waiting
    for a rebirth of wonder
    and I am waiting for someone
    to really discover America
    and wail
    and I am waiting
    for the discovery
    of a new symbolic western frontier
    and I am waiting
    for the American Eagle
    to really spread its wings
    and straighten up and fly right

  80. 80.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 4, 2017 at 8:07 am

    @Baud: And how much in the way of medical resources to we throw at this single child who has a close to zero chance of surviving any treatment, and even if he does survive, he’ll live a life of excruciating pain?

    This is insane. We are more humane towards pets than children some times. And Donald is showboating on this family’s misery.

  81. 81.

    Iowa Old Lady

    July 4, 2017 at 8:07 am

    @debbie: Surely that statement was a joke, and I don’t mean by Wagner.

    ETA: What Kraux Pas said

  82. 82.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 8:08 am

    @Kay: I didn’t even know that this had happened. Just another sleazy person appointed by Trump to a position in his regime. So why should a sanctioned Attorney get access to all of our voting records again?

  83. 83.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 8:09 am

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Those suckers are LOUD, aren’t they?

    Even firing blanks, and I think less than full charges.

  84. 84.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 8:10 am

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    This is a huge and really impossible question- the rights of the parents versus what the hospital probably feels are the rights of the child who is wholly dependent on the decisions of the parents. It’s a hard question. No one gets it “right”- there is no right answer and Donald Trump with his belligerent, lazy fact-free gut feelings is the absolute worst person imaginable to navigate all these various rights and interests and principles because no one will win. No one will be “right” and no one will win. There will be a resolution and hopefully people will do the best they can.

  85. 85.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 8:11 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Isn’t it great to have a President who allows us to say “Merry Christmas” again?

    I know! At the mall last December 15, I said “merry christmas” to a store clerk and federal marshals swooped down on my ass so quickly….

  86. 86.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 8:11 am

    @Baud: Bah humbug!

  87. 87.

    ThresherK

    July 4, 2017 at 8:11 am

    @Just One More Canuck: Except for the Halifax explosion, I wasn’t aware of much in that story.

    Much of the discrimination on display there resembles other incidents.

  88. 88.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:12 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: I agree the government shouldn’t pay for it. And maybe I would agree with the hospital’s decision here. But there has to be a generic rule on who gets to decide.

    I don’t know the facts here — in particular, whether the decision to end life support was based on financial consideration or humanitarian grounds because of the pain the child is in.

  89. 89.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 8:13 am

    @Kay: This.

  90. 90.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 8:13 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    The story says he wasn’t appointed but volunteered or something. They were looking for warn bodies from a cross section of the country so maybe they mistakenly solicited the sec of state office in every state although that isn’t the election administrator in every state.

    I think people join these things because they’re flattered to be considered “experts”.

  91. 91.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:15 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Isn’t it great to have a President who allows us to say “Merry Christmas” again?

    The idea that we weren’t allowed to say Merry Christmas isn’t the most dangerous Republican lie, but it’s definitely one of the most plainly deluded. If anything, I was bullied out of saying “Happy Holidays” by people demanding that I say “Merry Christmas.” I now no longer acknowledge any holiday with clients at work ever for any reason.

    This other quote from the article caught my eye:

    Politicians have tried — oh, have they tried — to centralize authority among the hands of a small few in our nation’s capital

    Says the man who is literally refusing to fully staff his administration so that the decision-making power is more concentrated among his closest advisors. this man literally has zero sense of self-awareness.

  92. 92.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 8:16 am

    @Baud:

    As things are defined, health care is so inelastic, personal and necessary, there is a level of responsibility that should be deemed as something greater than fiduciary.

    If it were up to me, a decision to insure somebody is such an “up front” investment that no company should be allowed to make a decision to terminate as a decision outside of customer breach once coverage starts – coverage of the individual is for life. I’d also lock in premiums, make them adjustable only in accordance with the rate of medical inflation.

    Finally, I’d remutualize them, making them non-profit entities and stripping out the moral hazard.

  93. 93.

    ThresherK

    July 4, 2017 at 8:17 am

    @efgoldman: Obligatory: “Uh, I had a gun.”

  94. 94.

    Kay

    July 4, 2017 at 8:17 am

    @JPL:

    It’s daily in the US, hundreds of times a day in the US courts grapple with this exact question and they sometimes get it horribly wrong but most of the time they work real hard to do the best they can. But there’s no right answer so you need the humility to begin there- to know you won’t get it “right”- there is no happy ending. People always think it’s arrogance- that hospital or state people WANT these decisions but the truth is the opposite. They DON’T want them. They just get stuck with them.

  95. 95.

    Victor Matheson

    July 4, 2017 at 8:19 am

    @ThresherK: my 11 and 13 year old kids know this. Mainly because they listen to the Hamilton soundtrack constantly.

  96. 96.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 8:19 am

    @Baud: The child is going to die, and the parents don’t want to let go. After the child dies, the death will be used to criticize socialized medicine and government interference. Trump is playing the long game here, imo.
    What won’t be mentioned is the specific illness.
    There’s no santa either.

  97. 97.

    efgoldman

    July 4, 2017 at 8:21 am

    @Bobby Thomson:

    what happens if Mueller lays it all on the table, Congressional Republicans still don’t give a shit

    There are two separate tracks: Mueller is investigating potential criminal acts. If he (or NY AG Schneiderman) finds them, the perpetrators will be indicted and tried in courts, Congress has no say.
    The political side is potential impeachment. Not happening with a RWNJ congress. But Trumplethinskin could be left as an unindicted co-conspirator (like Tricksie Dicksie Nixie); it may also be possible to indict him at the state level even while he’s still in office. I expect he’s going to end up all alone, with his family and close staff all indicted and/or resigned. The position will be untenable, even for someone as stubborn and delusional.

  98. 98.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 8:21 am

    Oh, my – but this is tasty

    Lyrics

    “Future of America”

    My country, ’tis of thee
    Land of lost liberty,
    Of thee we sing.

    Land which the millionaires,
    Who govern our affairs,
    Own for themselves and heirs-
    Hail to thy king.

    Land once of noble braves
    But now of wretched slaves-
    Alas! too late

    We saw sweet Freedom die,
    From letting bribers nigh,
    Our unprized suffrage buy;
    And mourn thy fate.

    Land where the wealthy few
    Can make the many do
    Their royal will,

    And tax for selfish greed
    The toilers till they bleed,
    And those not yet weal-kneed
    Crash down and kill.

    Land where a rogue is raised
    On high and loudly praised
    For worst of crimes

    Of which the end, must be
    A hell of cruelty,
    As proved by history
    Of ancient times.

    My country, ’tis of thee,
    Betrayed by bribery,
    Of thee we sing.

    We might have saved thee long
    Had we, when proud and strong,
    Put down the cursed wrong
    That makes a king.

    “A New American Anthem”

    My country, ’tis of thee,
    Once land of liberty,
    Of thee I sing.

    Land of the Millionaire
    Farmers with pockets bare;
    Caused by the cursed snare –
    The Money Ring.

    My native country, thee,
    Thou wert so pure and free,
    Long, long ago.

    Yet still I love thy rills,
    But hate thy usury mills,
    That fill the bankers’ tills
    Till they overflow.

    So when my country, thee,
    Which should be noble, free,
    I’ll love thee still;

    I’ll love thy Greenback men,
    Who strive with tongue and pen,
    For liberty again,
    With right good will.

    And then my country, thee,
    Thou wilt again be free;
    And Freedom’s tower.

    Stand by your fireside then,
    And show that you are men,
    Whom they can’t fool again,
    And crush their power.

  99. 99.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:21 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    coverage of the individual is for life.

    That’s essentially what Obamacare does, no?

    I’d also lock in premiums, make them adjustable only in accordance with the rate of medical inflation.

    Probably would have negative market effects. Richard-David can speak to that.

    Finally, I’d remutualize them, making them non-profit entities and stripping out the moral hazard.

    Not sure how that would be implemented. If you ban for profits, are there enough people out there who could fill the void?

  100. 100.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:23 am

    @JPL: Right. And we need to push back with all the kids who would be harmed by the GOP’s policies.

  101. 101.

    Lapassionara

    July 4, 2017 at 8:23 am

    @ThresherK: well, that sucks. I did not know there were still granges, but given Kansas politics, I should not be surprised to learn that the grange has lurched to the right.

  102. 102.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:23 am

    @Baud:

    This 4th of July is special because, for the first time in living memory, we seriously question whether the right to elect our own government was a good idea.

    But we don’t really have the right to elect our own government. If we did, we’d have a different President. We have a right to choose an electoral college to pick our President. The various state houses, meanwhile, have the right to choose their own voters for themselves and Congress.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:24 am

    @Kraux Pas: True.

  104. 104.

    chris

    July 4, 2017 at 8:25 am

    @ThresherK: Lots of history at the Black Loyalist Heritage Centre. Just over the hill, the town of Shelburne was the site of the first race riots in North America in 1785. But we have no problems with racism here…

    Happy 4th to all!

  105. 105.

    Amir Khalid

    July 4, 2017 at 8:27 am

    @debbie:
    Of course Wagner didn’t say that. Few politicians (aside from Novice President Donald Trump) would make that mistake. Ozark was just, er, supplementing her words with the truth.

  106. 106.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 8:27 am

    @efgoldman:

    I’m looking for Schneiderman to announce Eric Trump and Jared Kushner indictments before years’ end. At that point, it would behoove Trump’s DOJ to file informations in any plausible jurisdiction for misdemeanor charges covering the crimes that Schneiderman is indicting, contemporaneous with sweetheart misdemeanor plea deals. Trump issues pardons and proclaims the matters “over”, and Schneiderman is then left with his dick in his hand by virtue of the prohibition against double jeopardy.

    The supine Congress would do nothing in the shattering of the norm.

  107. 107.

    MattF

    July 4, 2017 at 8:29 am

    @efgoldman: So, it’ll be like the evacuation of Saigon, Trump family leaving by helicopter from the White House roof.

  108. 108.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 8:29 am

    @Baud:

    Incentivize the “for profits” to spin off and convert. It would have to be long term.

  109. 109.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 8:29 am

    Rob Lowe says he thought he was going to be killed during an encounter with a Bigfoot-like creature while filming his new A&E docuseries. Lowe tells Entertainment Weekly the encounter took place in the Ozark Mountains, which stretch between Arkansas, Missouri and Oklahoma.

    Lowe says he and his sons were camping there to investigate a Bigfoot-like creature known to locals as a “wood ape” during a shoot for “The Lowe Files” when something began to approach their camp. Lowe says he was lying on the ground thinking he was going to be killed.

    He adds that he’s “fully aware” the story makes him sound like “a crazy, Hollywood kook.”

    No, it just makes you look like a pansy assed idiot who actually thought a deer/bobcat/mountain lion/bear/possum/raccoon/skunk/rabbit/weasel/chipmunk/mouse wandering thru the woods was going to kill you.

  110. 110.

    MattF

    July 4, 2017 at 8:30 am

    @Amir Khalid: Merely translating.

  111. 111.

    Elizabelle

    July 4, 2017 at 8:32 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: I have never seen it stated that Charlie Gard is in excruciating pain. If you have a link for that, please share it.

    However: Charlie has a congenital birth defect that has left him unable to breathe, unable to move, unable to eat, unable to hear, unable to see. He has serious brain damage which he will not recover from, and experiences seizures.

    Charlie is not meant for this world, and I find his parents to be delusional, rather than heroic. They’ve played the system the whole way. They have raised more than a million from donors, so they presumably do have the funds to have Charlie brought to the US, under full life support, to try these unproven therapies that have not even been put to an animal test. Further, the goal is to lengthen Charlie’s life. The European courts saw clearly that a recovery of brain function for Charlie is not possible.

    I can understand how the Pope is talking of respect for life, but even the spokeswoman for the hospital in Italy that is offering to take Charlie for care has made it clear the infant does not have much time left.

    Further: Charlie gets to the US. The treatment does not work. Do we then have a huge fight, in the US, about unplugging Charlie?

    Because that has happened, and much more speedily, here already. (See the case of Israel Stinson, of California, a 2 year old boy who ended up brain dead and who was eventually removed from life support, against his parents’ wishes.)

    Medical science is just not up to fixing Charlie. Is his life, without any prospects for improvement whatsoever, worth a bed in a hospital and millions of dollars of care that could go to other children who need so much less, and have such brighter futures?

    Myself, I would pull the plug on Charlie months ago, and sleep soundly.

  112. 112.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 8:32 am

    @efgoldman: Christians were so heavily persecuted by that Kenyan Imposter. Thank goodness for Trump!! Christians are free again! Can you imagine what would be happening to us under that Heathen woman Clinton? We sure dodged a bullet by electing such a kind, Christ-like man like Trump. Glory!

  113. 113.

    ThresherK

    July 4, 2017 at 8:34 am

    @Victor Matheson: Okay, I know there’s a bunch of Hamilfans on this board. But that’s convinced me to get that soundtrack.

    And now that the season’s started, I’ve just taught my wife the Oskee Wee Wee cheer for that other Hamilton.

  114. 114.

    Elizabelle

    July 4, 2017 at 8:35 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Weren’t we told that Trump cannnot pardon for state crimes?

    In all honesty, the cyncism and triumphant defeatism here has me lurking more and more. (Of course, I am in a beautiful country abroad too.).

    What is gained by that? Shall we all put our heads in our ovens now, while we still have ovens?

  115. 115.

    MattF

    July 4, 2017 at 8:35 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Sounds like the Antinomian heresy:

    The term antinomianism emerged soon after the Protestant Reformation (c.1517) and has been used as a pejorative against Christian thinkers and sects who carried their belief in justification by faith further than was customary.[1] Theologically, antinomianism is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. This makes antinomianism an exaggeration of justification by faith alone.

    ETA: Of course, this is just my amateur opinion about the beliefs of the Inscrutable Gentiles.

  116. 116.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:36 am

    @Elizabelle:

    I can understand how the Pope is talking of respect for life

    But to what extent does using medical science to prolong life constitute “respect?” If we could raise the dead as zombies, ought we to do that?

  117. 117.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 8:36 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: No, it makes him sound like someone desperately drumming up publicity for his latest “project” – we’re supposed to be the rubes who decide to tune in because of his bullshit claims.

    They really think we’re idiots.

  118. 118.

    HeleninEire

    July 4, 2017 at 8:37 am

    There’s a pub here that’s serving free pints to Americans. Just have to show my ID. I may check it out. ;)

  119. 119.

    Bobby Thomson

    July 4, 2017 at 8:37 am

    @efgoldman:

    it may also be possible to indict him at the state level even while he’s still in office.

    Nope. Just nope. Absolute immunity while in office. There may be a creative argument and guess what? It won’t fly. I don’t think you could find any SCOTUS justices willing to endorse that view, let alone a majority.

    But Trumplethinskin could be left as an unindicted co-conspirator (like Tricksie Dicksie Nixie); . . . I expect he’s going to end up all alone, with his family and close staff all indicted and/or resigned.

    Somewhat more plausible, but still under 50% probability.

    The position will be untenable, even for someone as stubborn and delusional.

    This is the 2017 version of “Trump isn’t really running to win.”

  120. 120.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 8:37 am

    @chris: I grew up in Ontario and was taught and learned for myself about the Black community in the eastern provinces (Nova Scotia mostly). Recently discovered the story of Viola Desmond who was arrested for sitting in the White part of a segregated theater in Nova Scotia. Interesting that although Canadians pride themselves on not being as racist as the U.S., they’ve had their moments which parallel American history.

  121. 121.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:39 am

    @MattF:

    Theologically, antinomianism is the belief that there are no moral laws God expects Christians to obey. This makes antinomianism an exaggeration of justification by faith alone.

    As long as you show up to church on Sunday and keep your sins behind closed doors, you are a morally superior Christian with full leeway to proselytize the heathens.

  122. 122.

    Elizabelle

    July 4, 2017 at 8:40 am

    @JPL: Precisely. Charlie Gard is less a child to his parents, than a cause. We are told that marriages often do not survive the death or major illness of a child, and I am not even sure this couple is married.

    He represents something to them, and were he not born in a first world country with socialized healthcare, Charlie would not have made it to this age at all. Today is his 11th month birthday.

    The parents and the rightwing are using Charlie to slam the British and European healthcare system, and he is such a ridiculous case, on the facts.

    Life support does keep those with no possibility of living independently looking pink and warm and healthy. But what life is that? And how much should a society pay, when there are so many other needs?

  123. 123.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 8:40 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Last week a video went viral of a Canadian woman demanding “a white doctor!” for her child. “Someone who speaks English and doesn’t have brown skin/teeth!!” It was an ugly display of ignorance and hatred, and in front of her child.

  124. 124.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 8:42 am

    @Elizabelle:

    He can’t pardon for state crimes, but he can pardon for Federal crimes, and if the elements that match are material, the Federal pardon could well cover it on double jeopardy grounds.

  125. 125.

    Bobby Thomson

    July 4, 2017 at 8:43 am

    @Elizabelle:

    Weren’t we told that Trump cannot pardon for state crimes?


    Under the Blockburger standard
    , you can’t be charged again for a “lesser included offense.” What that means is that if you’re acquitted/pardoned of (i) federal crime requiring A and federal crime requiring B, or (ii) federal crime requiring A, B, and C, you can’t be charged with state crime requiring A and B. Good thing the Trump administration isn’t firing independent U.S. attorneys!

  126. 126.

    Elizabelle

    July 4, 2017 at 8:43 am

    @Kraux Pas: Prezactly. And the Pope has been very careful in his choice of words. He hopes the parents can see Charlie through the end of his life. If you look at his actual words, the Pope offers the parents his emotional support but you can see he sees it’s a hopeless case.

    Poor Charlie.

  127. 127.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:46 am

    @Elizabelle: Of course, and I didn’t mean to make any assumptions about what the pope said. I didn’t know precisely. I was just trying to reconcile your snippet with my own views on end-of-life care.

  128. 128.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 8:47 am

    @Kraux Pas:

    Hell yes, we should do zombies – Christians should be thrilled, ‘coz after all, Lazarus and Jesus are old timey zombie tales, all the way down to flesh eating…

  129. 129.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 8:47 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Interesting that although Canadians pride themselves on not being as racist as the U.S.,

    Any town near a reservation will put the lie to that.

  130. 130.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:48 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Christians should be thrilled, ‘coz after all, Lazarus and Jesus are old timey zombie tales, all the way down to flesh eating…

    I always knew there was something suspicious about those little pieces of “bread.”

  131. 131.

    Amir Khalid

    July 4, 2017 at 8:49 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
    Pardoning Eric and Jared before they are even indicted, to prevent any trial from going forward, is only going to convince people that they really are guilty. And while they’d certainly stay out of jail, that would be the end of their good name. I’m not sure how much they’d suffer from that loss, but Trump would be handing Schneiderman a walkover. Trump strikes me as too proud to concede walkovers.

  132. 132.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:51 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    And while they’d certainly stay out of jail, that would be the end of their good name

    I just developed a facial tic reading that sentence.

  133. 133.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 8:52 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    Hell yes, we should do zombies

    I thought that was how we got tRump.

  134. 134.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 8:54 am

    @Amir Khalid:

    And while they’d certainly stay out of jail, that would be the end of their good name.

    What ‘good name’?

  135. 135.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 8:54 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Hell yes, we should do zombies

    I thought that was how we got tRump.

    Those zombies weren’t creations of medical science, but rather of voodoo economics.

  136. 136.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 8:54 am

    @Bobby Thomson: No. Federal and state prosecutions are completely separate for double jeopardy purposes.

  137. 137.

    Amir Khalid

    July 4, 2017 at 8:57 am

    @Kraux Pas:
    I developed a facial tic writing it.

    Okay, the President cannot pardon people convicted of state offences. But would that stop Trump?

  138. 138.

    JMG

    July 4, 2017 at 8:57 am

    @Bobby Thomson: Not so. Democratic candidate recruitment is as strong as could be expected. Look at Virginia legislature. Meanwhile, Republican recruitment not going well at all.

  139. 139.

    Lapassionara

    July 4, 2017 at 8:59 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Way cool.

    I need to read Alain’s instructions, but before I do, here is another snippet, to the tune of “Battlecry of Freedom:”

    “We are marshaled for a conflict, with the enemies of toil, Shouting the battle-cry of labor.
    Mankind will hail our progress as we plow the fertile soil, Shouting the battle-cry of labor.

    Down with the trust pools, crown labor king,
    Farmers, mechanics and toilers may sing,
    For the laborer’s of justice a jubilee will bring,
    Shouting the battle-cry of labor.”

    Good to know there were people who understood who the enemy was.

  140. 140.

    JPL

    July 4, 2017 at 9:02 am

    @Amir Khalid: I think that Trump can only issue pardons for federal crimes, not state. Maybe a lawyer will weigh in though.

    Trumpettes would think the donald is saving his sons from persecution from the liberals.

  141. 141.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:03 am

    @Bobby Thomson:

    nationalizing elections still seems to work against us.

    Well, while I agree that the axiom “all politics is local” still holds water, let’s wait until we have an election somewhere that is R+(<15) before passing judgment on any particular strategy.

  142. 142.

    JMG

    July 4, 2017 at 9:04 am

    Re Mueller: It’s almost a certainty that investigation will be ongoing at the time of the 2018 midterms, assuming Trump doesn’t fire him, which even Hugh Hewitt advised against. I think, although could well be wrong, that a lot of Republican support for Trump in Congress comes down to what happens with Obamacare repeal. If they can’t get that done, and it’s apparent Trump has been less than no help, some of them may start to figure, “who needs this guy anyway.”

  143. 143.

    p.a.

    July 4, 2017 at 9:06 am

    @Kraux Pas: FTW

  144. 144.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 9:08 am

    @Baud:

    Yes and no (and this is why common law depending on dicta, whim and brain fart drives me nuts); there are issues as to the purpose of the statutes and whether they chase down the same evil, and it also depends on the state.

  145. 145.

    Ian G.

    July 4, 2017 at 9:08 am

    So while it’s hard to celebrate this country’s body politic at this moment, it’s always worth celebrating the natural heritage of this country, which will long outlast the Shitgibbon administration. In the last two years, I’ve stood high up in alpine tundra in Colorado, looking down at snowfields below me in August, and I’ve also walked among Saguaro cactus in Arizona and mangroves in Florida, in heat that was oppressive even in late winter or early spring.

    The natural wonders of this country will always be worth celebrating and worth fighting for.

  146. 146.

    Sloane Ranger

    July 4, 2017 at 9:09 am

    @ThresherK: I can’t remember where I read it but when the British fleet left Washington D.C. after burning the White House etc. their ships were apparently weighed down by hundreds of slaves seeking freedom in Canada.

    @germy: Yes, Canada has its racial issues too and those black people who fled there after the Revolution and during the War of 1812 experienced prejudice and discrimination, including some that was set out in legislation/local ordinances but, at the end of the day, marriages were legally recognised and no-one could come along and sell your children away from you. That must be worth something.

  147. 147.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:10 am

    @Ian G.:

    So while it’s hard to celebrate this country’s body politic at this moment, it’s always worth celebrating the natural heritage of this country, which will long outlast the Shitgibbon administration.

    You’re certain about this?

  148. 148.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 9:12 am

    @JMG:

    If they can’t get that done, and it’s apparent Trump has been less than no help…

    Some columnist at the Washington Post offered a theory that the less drumpfff says about TRyanCare, the better. His hands-off style is helping their cause.

    I don’t know if this is true; it’s just what the professional scribblers are saying lately.

  149. 149.

    tobie

    July 4, 2017 at 9:13 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Aren’t Presidential pardons limited to federal convictions? Can a President pardon someone for state crimes?

    EDIT: Oops…issue already addressed. Ignore comment.

  150. 150.

    p.a.

    July 4, 2017 at 9:13 am

    @JMG:

    If they can’t get that done, and it’s apparent Trump has been less than no help, some of them may start to figure, “who needs this guy anyway.”

    The real question then becomes: how much of the base is zombified enough to just join lockstep with the new “tRump is a RINO (or whatevs) and deserves to be abandoned” meme and how many stick with him? It’s a dangerous situation for the party, but my opinion is that fascists follow orders and the Rethugs will be able to abandon tRump with modest but not debilitating damage. You never lose betting on that base’s lowest expectations.

  151. 151.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:14 am

    @Sloane Ranger:

    marriages were legally recognised and no-one could come along and sell your children away from you

    So, I suppose that means they were barred from getting on the public dole too. /Trumpette

  152. 152.

    satby

    July 4, 2017 at 9:14 am

    @Baud: @JPL: as JPL and Elizabelle have said. The child’s condition is terminal, he’s suffering right now, and there is absolutely no hope of recovery, just prolonged deterioration leading to death.

  153. 153.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 4, 2017 at 9:14 am

    A sunny 4th of July here in the Ocean State means you have to go to the beach. So that’s where I am.

  154. 154.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:16 am

    @p.a.:

    You never lose betting on that base’s lowest expectations.

    Not so. Even the lowest expectations generally prove too high.

  155. 155.

    Hal

    July 4, 2017 at 9:21 am

    Can the media please stop being mean to the KKK?

    David Duke @DrDavidDuke

    I have literally been the target of “Journalist” terrorism for 50yrs. The climate of hated/violence your profession has created is shameful.

  156. 156.

    Immanentize

    July 4, 2017 at 9:22 am

    by virtue of the prohibition against double jeopardy

    Double Jeopardy does not prevent prosecutions for the exact same acts from State to federal or federal to state. It’s a troublesome concept called dual sovereignty.

    So in the end, pleas for misdemeanors in a federal case have no effect on a state prosecution (and vice versa). I worked on a few of these cases….

  157. 157.

    satby

    July 4, 2017 at 9:23 am

    @Kraux Pas: the Church officially doesn’t endorse extreme measures of life support in cases that are hopeless. It’s often the families that insist on prolonging a natural death.

  158. 158.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 9:23 am

    @germy: Whoa! Backward people are everywhere, aren’t they?

  159. 159.

    Chris

    July 4, 2017 at 9:23 am

    Happy celebration of the onset of a minor proxy war between the French and British empires, everyone.

  160. 160.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 9:23 am

    @Hal:

    The climate of hated/violence your profession has created

    Of course, the climate David has created has been one of brotherly love, tolerance and peace.

  161. 161.

    Just One More Canuck

    July 4, 2017 at 9:25 am

    @ThresherK: not widely taught in schools up here (at least in British Columbia where I grew up), although I had a good history teacher in high school who encouraged us not to write about the same old pillars of Canadian history (the four F’s – fish, fur, forests and food) and 1 person I know of selected this as an essay topic.

    And a happy oskie wee wee to you

  162. 162.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 9:26 am

    @Hal: A KKK adherent whining about being victimized by violence and hatred is beyond bizarre. Great to know that he has Trump’s back.

  163. 163.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 9:26 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Backward people are everywhere, aren’t they?

    They blanket the earth. There’s less of them than decent people (I hope), but the backward people often make much more noise.

  164. 164.

    Ohio Mom

    July 4, 2017 at 9:27 am

    @Elizabelle: Your comments are well-stated.

    Every cell in Charlie Grad’s body is missing an essential part that cannot be replaced. That missing part led to other, serious and unrepairable misfunctions.

    When you think about how complicated it is for a human body to create itself from two random cells, it is amazing that any of us are put together more or less correctly. The same forces that give rise to the random occurrences that propel evolution also give rise to errors that make life impossible.

    I can understand why it would be hard for the parents to digest all this immediately after the birth but it has been months and months.

    I feel for the doctors and nurses, who are demonstrating real compassion. Not just for baby Grad but also for the parents, who need to come to terms that there are some things that can’t be fixed, and to move on with their lives.

  165. 165.

    satby

    July 4, 2017 at 9:27 am

    @satby: and the parents do not always have the best interests of the child as their goal. This is one such case.

  166. 166.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 9:27 am

    @germy: Noiser and less prone to distraction.

  167. 167.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:29 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    A KKK adherent whining about being victimized by violence and hatred is beyond bizarre. Great to know that he has Trump’s back.

    White frailty is endemic on the right. Makes sense that it would be particularly strong among the KKK.

  168. 168.

    Immanentize

    July 4, 2017 at 9:29 am

    @Bobby Thomson: I have covered this in previous comments. Don’t conflated indictment with prosecution. The immunity is from prosection, not indictment and probably only covers crimes committed while President, in his official capacity.

  169. 169.

    aimai

    July 4, 2017 at 9:31 am

    @Patricia Kayden: We saw this fantastic play last time we were in Montreal. I highly recommend it. It touches on this history. The music, song, and movement in the play as well as the theme, acting, and writing were amazing.

  170. 170.

    Immanentize

    July 4, 2017 at 9:32 am

    @Baud: This is absolutely true. No double jeopardy across lines of sovereignty.

  171. 171.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:32 am

    @Ohio Mom:

    Every cell in Charlie Grad’s body is missing an essential part that cannot be replaced. That missing part led to other, serious and unrepairable misfunctions.

    The only possible positive I see from this child’s potential experimental treatment is that maybe the doctors will learn more about the condition and may be able to help a child not so far gone at some point in the future.

    Though I doubt the parents’ intent is to give their child up as a lab rat.

  172. 172.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:36 am

    @Immanentize:

    This is absolutely true. No double jeopardy across lines of sovereignty.

    Too bad this isn’t more widely understood. An independent Republican-who-won’t-admit-it of my acquaintance is still mightily bent out of shape over federal civil rights charges brought against police officers acquitted in (I believe) the Rodney King case.

  173. 173.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 9:37 am

    @Ohio Mom:

    The same forces that give rise to the random occurrences that propel evolution also give rise to errors that make life impossible.

    Hence, the avg tRump voter.

  174. 174.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 9:40 am

    @Kraux Pas: I suspect your acquaintance’s real beef with that prosecution wouldn’t be resolved by an understanding of America’s system of dual sovereignty.

  175. 175.

    Oldgold

    July 4, 2017 at 9:43 am

    @JMG:

    I think this investigation moves much more quickly.

    The nature of the beast demands it.

    Like everything else, the law, when need be can move with surprising speed.

  176. 176.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 9:43 am

    @Baud:

    I suspect your acquaintance’s real beef with that prosecution wouldn’t be resolved by an understanding of America’s system of dual sovereignty.

    Surely you aren’t suggesting that Republicans don’t argue in good faith and that the misconceptions they must be disabused of are in fact a game of whack-a-mole designed to make their core beliefs unassailable?

  177. 177.

    Baud

    July 4, 2017 at 9:44 am

    @Kraux Pas: Perish the thought.

  178. 178.

    ThresherK

    July 4, 2017 at 9:52 am

    @Gin & Tonic: Which beach?

    And, has someone created a migration map with arrows showing where Jerseyites deprived of their state beaches are going? As a Nutmegger, who picked a sunset at Sunset Beach in Cape May for The Proposal*, I’m interested in how this plays out.

    (*Spoiler alert: Our next anniversary will be our 20th.)

  179. 179.

    Bruce K

    July 4, 2017 at 9:54 am

    I’m just gonna come out and say that any political movement that can’t survive without the support of neo-Nazis, neo-Confederates, the Ku Klux Klan, and the heirs of the KGB? Deserves to die an agonizing death.

    As an aside, I’m gonna bet that by Thanksgiving, there will be some really stinky pardons coming out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, and I’ll bet that someone is going to end up disappointed that a Federal pardon won’t help them with regard to Attorney General Schneiderman of New York.

  180. 180.

    Sab

    July 4, 2017 at 9:59 am

    @Just One More Canuck: Thanks for this. Not exactly on point but I always wondered what happened on the other end of the underground railroad.

    Also, being American, I had never heard of the four Fs. Interesting.

  181. 181.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 10:02 am

    @Immanentize:

    I’ve never dealt with a DJ issue, and only have the student’s understanding of the topic from eons ago.

    My recollection from my criminal law class was that there was some theory regarding material similarity between the charges. Then again, the info is suspect – the teacher wasn’t very good, and concentrated mostly on trying to bed the hot blondes in the front row.

  182. 182.

    TS

    July 4, 2017 at 10:04 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: America’s children are only of concern before birth.

  183. 183.

    rikyrah

    July 4, 2017 at 10:06 am

    @Amir Khalid:
    The President can NOT pardon people for STATE charges, only Federal.

  184. 184.

    gene108

    July 4, 2017 at 10:07 am

    @JPL:

    @Baud: The child is going to die, and the parents don’t want to let go. After the child dies, the death will be used to criticize socialized medicine and government interference. Trump is playing the long game here, imo.
    What won’t be mentioned is the specific illness.
    There’s no santa either.

    I wonder how much the child’s care cost up to this point and how much it set the parents back? Or how afraid the parents are they would no longer get treatment because of a loss of job, missing a premium payment, not being able to afford the deductible, etc. You know the usual problems we wrestle with here.

  185. 185.

    Amir Khalid

    July 4, 2017 at 10:08 am

    @rikyrah:
    Yes, but does this President know that?

  186. 186.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 10:15 am

    @aimai: I’ll be in Montreal in August so I’ll check to see if it’s playing when I’m there. Thanks!

  187. 187.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 10:17 am

    @gene108:

    After the child dies, the death will be used to criticize socialized medicine and government interference.

    Interesting that they didn’t need to raise a million dollars until they decided to seek care in the U.S.

  188. 188.

    Immanentize

    July 4, 2017 at 10:18 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: You are correctly remembering double jeopardy doctrine — within one sovereignty. So there is a complicated analysis where if only one element of a crime is different from another crime, then jeopardy attached (think premeditated murder versus reckless murder for the same act — if you are guilty of the lesser you cannot be tried for the greater). But that doesn’t apply across lines of sovereignty — state, federal, or foreign.

    I sadly probably know the professor, but it would be near impossible to distinguish among the many who act as you describe.

    ETA. For the law heads — check out Abbate v US (1959). Its one of the original modern cases on the topic. Cool facts. But even better is that Justice Brennan writes the majority opinion AND writes a separate concurrence to his own opinion.

  189. 189.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 10:18 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: At least he had his priorities straight.

  190. 190.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 10:21 am

    @Sab:

    I had never heard of the four Fs. Interesting.

    Down here in the states our four Fs are “Furriners, Firearms, Fox News and Folderol”

  191. 191.

    debbie

    July 4, 2017 at 10:22 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Who knew quotation marks could lie?

  192. 192.

    Karen

    July 4, 2017 at 10:23 am

    If someone else mentioned this, then I missed it; but the realization that the “founding fathers” were a bunch of 20 something rebels is hard to wrap mind around. Most educators and history books leave one with the idea that these were mature, thoughtful adults rather than the knowledge that they were the same age as the college protesters of today.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2013/08/how_old_were_the_founding_father_the_leaders_of_the_american_revolution.html

  193. 193.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 10:24 am

    @debbie: ;-)

    ETA also, I specifically didn’t block quote as a hint. sorry you didn’t get it. ;-)

  194. 194.

    Patricia Kayden

    July 4, 2017 at 10:24 am

    @Villago Delenda Est: As Wonkette pointed out, it’s ironic that Trump has offered medical assistance to a foreign, White baby while ignoring the plight of millions of American babies of various colors/races as his Republican colleagues conspire to gut Medicaid and the ACA.

  195. 195.

    Immanentize

    July 4, 2017 at 10:24 am

    @germy: You left out Fentanyl.

  196. 196.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 10:25 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Three words: Gilderoy Lockhart hair.

  197. 197.

    Kraux Pas

    July 4, 2017 at 10:26 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: If I remember correctly that’s almost like a thicker, more luscious version of Trump hair.

    ETA: Why, I bet it could even withstand a stern breeze.

  198. 198.

    Sloane Ranger

    July 4, 2017 at 10:27 am

    @gene108: Your final sentence indicates you already know the answer. These are not questions we in Britain wrestle with (unless you choose private care, which I don’t think is the case here).

    I don’t think Trump is playing a long game. I don’t think he’s capable of playing one. With Trumpcare stalled and about as popular as a return of the Blue Flu, I think this is his way of showing “heart”. The actual facts about the case don’t matter.

  199. 199.

    germy

    July 4, 2017 at 10:30 am

    @Immanentize:

    You left out Fentanyl.

    American exceptionalism. We’ve got more Fs to give.

  200. 200.

    d58826

    July 4, 2017 at 10:31 am

    DPRK News Service Retweeted Donald J. Trump
    Infantile dementia sufferer Donald Trump fantasizes his record of humiliations and lies may be erased by wrestling with fantastic creatures.

    Ouch, that’s gonna leave a mark
    https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/881531609467559936

  201. 201.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    July 4, 2017 at 10:31 am

    @Ohio Mom: It’s the same underlying disease as the medically fragile children we were talking about yesterday. In Charlie’s case, it has expressed very early and very severely. I wonder if there’s an element of denial involved as well: “I’m perfectly normal! I can’t have this genetic disease!”

  202. 202.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 4, 2017 at 10:31 am

    @Kraux Pas:

    Yup.

    Al Quick was his name (I always assumed he was a minute man, albeit without the refractory ability of a juvenile dolphin).

  203. 203.

    d58826

    July 4, 2017 at 10:31 am

    @Baud: but her e-mails

  204. 204.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 4, 2017 at 10:32 am

    @ThresherK: A small place called East Beach in Charlestown. And you CT people are welcome to go the fuck home.

  205. 205.

    OzarkHillbilly

    July 4, 2017 at 10:33 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: Heh. Don’t forget his smile.

  206. 206.

    chris

    July 4, 2017 at 10:33 am

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Canadians pride themselves on not being as racist as the U.S., they’ve had their moments which parallel American history.

    Indeed. The first Black Loyalist Centre burned down about ten years ago. Yes, arson. And that was about two years after it was tagged with racist KKK graffiti. So far, the 21st century ain’t looking too good…

  207. 207.

    ArchTeryx

    July 4, 2017 at 10:35 am

    Happy 4th everyone! Remember, resisting tyranny and oppression is as American as apple pie, and so’s picnicking and watching fireworks displays. It’s a nice day off for us NYS workers, too, and one I’m glad to have.

  208. 208.

    MomSense

    July 4, 2017 at 10:38 am

    @ThresherK:

    They are all in Maine. Aren’t there seagulls in the dirty jersey? Why on earth would you leave your Doritos unattended on your beach towel? Are you trying to stage a feathered Bruce Lee fight scene?

  209. 209.

    Gelfling 545

    July 4, 2017 at 11:05 am

    @Elizabelle: Discovered last nght that our Flora is not troubled by fireworks. For a dog that is afraid of manhole covers it is surprising! We stood outside watching the excellent display that people on the next street over put on. She was calm throughout.

  210. 210.

    Another Scott

    July 4, 2017 at 11:08 am

    @MattF: The federal budget, and the debt ceiling, has a lot to do with how the economy will be doing in the months to come, of course.

    It’s not a federal election year (as CalculatedRisk points out, the GOP never shuts down the government during an election year), so there’s a non-negligible chance that the Freedom Caucus idiots will shut down the government (and they may even cause a default). The Teabaggers are incompetent – we can’t assume that they’ll continue to avoid causing a sudden disaster.

    :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  211. 211.

    WaterGirl

    July 4, 2017 at 11:11 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: I thought for sure that was from The Onion Wow.

  212. 212.

    chris

    July 4, 2017 at 11:16 am

    @chris: Oh yeah, this too.

  213. 213.

    Another Scott

    July 4, 2017 at 11:20 am

    @Lapassionara: The Future America – $0.89 on Amazon.

    Neat.

    Lyrics, etc.

    Thanks for the pointer.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  214. 214.

    hovercraft

    July 4, 2017 at 11:32 am

    @d58826:

    @Baud: but her e-mails

    I think you forgot to add, “but Obama”. He was president and didn’t stop Putin, he was president and never accused Twitter of collaborating, so no harm no foul!
    See, it’s always democrats fault!
    Republicans are just t innocent victims of our malevolence.

  215. 215.

    ET

    July 4, 2017 at 11:44 am

    Not sure if anyone will see this on the 4th and so far down in a head but this is what some did at some parade on a day where King George was dumped to a literal kicking of a replica Trump. (Hope it works)

  216. 216.

    Just One More Canuck

    July 4, 2017 at 11:53 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: unfortunately, there is no question about that

  217. 217.

    cmorenc

    July 4, 2017 at 11:53 am

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    I’m looking for Schneiderman to announce Eric Trump and Jared Kushner indictments before years’ end. At that point, it would behoove Trump’s DOJ to file informations in any plausible jurisdiction for misdemeanor charges covering the crimes that Schneiderman is indicting, contemporaneous with sweetheart misdemeanor plea deals. Trump issues pardons and proclaims the matters “over”, and Schneiderman is then left with his dick in his hand by virtue of the prohibition against double jeopardy.

    Indictments obtained by Schneiderman based on New York state law won’t be nullified by double jeopardy if Trump’s DOJ tried the federal misdemeanor or Presidential pardon ploys, because double jeopardy doesn’t apply in that situation due to the “separate sovereigns doctrine. “States rights” under the federal constitution could actually be useful in this instance.

  218. 218.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 4, 2017 at 12:04 pm

    @Another Scott:
    Paul Ryan, and Paul Ryan alone, determines whether there will be a shutdown or debt ceiling raise. If he allows a bill for continuation of both at current levels, it will pass with all Democrats and a significant number of Republican moderates, and there will be jack shit the Teabaggers can do about it.

  219. 219.

    Another Scott

    July 4, 2017 at 12:14 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: I’d be wary of categorial statements about a shut down at the moment. Boehner had trouble counting votes, remember. Boehner was an Einstein running the House and passing legislation compared to Ryan.

    Donnie wants his Wall. It will only get built if there’s money in a budget for it – a CR won’t do it. Democrats won’t vote for Wall funding (unless it’s fudged as a not-Wall Wall, and even then it will be very difficult).

    I don’t think there will be a Default (the banksters won’t like it), but we really are in uncharted territory.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  220. 220.

    Ruckus

    July 4, 2017 at 12:46 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    I noticed that you added a couple of most likely true and appropriate words in your quote. Or your source left them out.

  221. 221.

    Ruckus

    July 4, 2017 at 1:05 pm

    @Kraux Pas:
    The mistake was people calling it a democracy in the first place. It’s not and never was. It’s a representative republic. We can discuss/argue the merits of both, we can discuss/argue who wanted it and why it’s that way, but there is no argument of what it is. That people think it’s a democracy has always been a problem because so many have been mislead into thinking this is what a democracy is. And that’s wrong, it isn’t.

  222. 222.

    Ruckus

    July 4, 2017 at 1:23 pm

    @germy:

    the climate David has created has been one of brotherly love, tolerance and peace.

    Well towards those he thinks of as human, yes. Any other protoplasm, not so much.

  223. 223.

    Just One More Canuck

    July 4, 2017 at 1:35 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: When will you be there? I am there for my daughter’s soccer tournament and then a few days of touring around from the 4th until the 10th. We’ve been told that there are a ton of events going on in Montreal that week (men’s tennis, music festivals, etc)

  224. 224.

    J R in WV

    July 4, 2017 at 1:52 pm

    @Baud:

    I believe the child may already be nearly brain-dead, in which case further treatment is just abuse of a corpse. As was the case in Ms Terry Schiavo and so many others.

    I’ve seen too much of that just by spending time in hospital with others. Grrrr. It is abuse to continue pumping someone who is already gone, has been gone for days, months, wherever we go when we die…

  225. 225.

    J R in WV

    July 4, 2017 at 2:09 pm

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Come on, you know city folks, who know little or nothing about the woods, and are on a spook-finding expedition (no matter that we all know there are no spooks in the woods) can get nervous, even scared in the deepest darkness they have ever experienced.

    Their inexperience doesn’t make them any of those things you mentioned, it just makes them inexperienced.

  226. 226.

    Jeffro

    July 4, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    Hi folks – hope everyone has had/is having/is about to have a very happy Fourth of July!

    I took my kayak out earlier today for the first time since Dog-knows-when and it was glorious. Looking forward to spending more time on the water soon (probably the Potomac instead of these grimy, algae-laden lakes!) But still.

    Glad for this day, committed as ever to keeping the ‘American experiment’ going (after a bit of much needed ‘housecleaning’, natch), and more than ready to be a happy warrior tomorrow! For today though, just having fun with friends and family and eating like nobody’s business.

    Everyone have a safe and happy Fourth!

  227. 227.

    fuckwit

    July 4, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    In re: Mr. Pierce’s post:
    http://www.thepaincomics.com/weekly060315.htm

  228. 228.

    No One You Know

    July 5, 2017 at 12:37 am

    @Elizabelle: Indeed.Ask Otto Warmbier. I’m not aware of the Pope’s position on that.

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