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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / And You Get a Lawyer and You Get a Lawyer…

And You Get a Lawyer and You Get a Lawyer…

by Adam L Silverman|  July 11, 20173:23 pm| 72 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, America, Domestic Politics, Election 2016, Election 2017, Election 2018, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Politics, Not Normal

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More lawyers: Rob Goldstone hires Bob Gage of New York. The Agalarovs hires Scott Balber.

— Rosalind Helderman (@PostRoz) July 11, 2017

Open thread!

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Previous Post: « “But his emails!” is NOT a distraction, but…
Next Post: Afternoon Open Thread »

Reader Interactions

72Comments

  1. 1.

    eric

    July 11, 2017 at 3:23 pm

    Every white guy gets a lawyer….same thing

  2. 2.

    WereBear

    July 11, 2017 at 3:26 pm

    Let the deals begin!

    Because this bunch can’t wait to start informing on each other if it will give them an edge. Remember, fellas and gals, first one gets the best shot at it.

  3. 3.

    trollhattan

    July 11, 2017 at 3:28 pm

    @eric:
    Then where the hell is mine? I wanna sue somebody, stat!

  4. 4.

    Miss Bianca

    July 11, 2017 at 3:28 pm

    oh, boy! same level of corruptionl different day!

  5. 5.

    Miss Bianca

    July 11, 2017 at 3:28 pm

    @trollhattan: OK, what have you done? Or should we just presume guilt?

  6. 6.

    Ian G.

    July 11, 2017 at 3:29 pm

    I’m curious to see just how many Republicans will stick with Trump through this, because former Soviet intelligence officers who murder political opponents and shake down individuals and businesses are the lesser evil vs. people like us who, you know, think Mexicans are human or doubt the literal truth of the Bible.

  7. 7.

    eric

    July 11, 2017 at 3:29 pm

    crim lawyer folks, can you answer the following: Trump grants a pardon, thus all federal charges vanish, except for subsequent perjury. But, am i correct that any person granted a pardon, may still assert the 5th to a federal prosecutor or Congress to protect from self incrimination in a potential state court action? (assuming the required predicates for asserting the 5th exist) gracias.

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:29 pm

    Even the lawyers have lawyers at this point.

  9. 9.

    jl

    July 11, 2017 at 3:30 pm

    I’ll look for news reports on how all the office pools on who goes down how and when are hurting productivity. Maybe Brooks will write a passive aggressive hectoring column about it, insinuating blame on liberals.

  10. 10.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:30 pm

    @eric:

    Trump grants a pardon, thus all federal charges vanish, except for subsequent perjury.

    Does Trump even have Pardon power if the election results were tampered with? Inquiring minds would like to know.

  11. 11.

    ArchTeryx

    July 11, 2017 at 3:31 pm

    @Ian G.: All of them, Katie.

  12. 12.

    A Ghost To Most

    July 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    Next Rethug meme: Those evil Demoncrats made us commit treason!

  13. 13.

    ruemara

    July 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    @Ian G.: Toss Orrin Hatch into that group.

  14. 14.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    @Ian G.:

    I’m curious to see just how many Republicans will stick with Trump through this, because former Soviet intelligence officers who murder political opponents and shake down individuals and businesses are the lesser evil vs. people like us who, you know, think Mexicans are human or doubt the literal truth of the Bible.

    Lesser evil in this case means the party more likely to kill you if you betray them.

  15. 15.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    @Miss Bianca: Depends, is he in any way involved with Trump?

  16. 16.

    James Powell

    July 11, 2017 at 3:32 pm

    Are these lawyers good enough to keep things under control until the public gets tired of hearing about Russia?

    I’m pretty sure that no matter what the facts are, one good terrorist attack in the US and the story will disappear from the news forever.

  17. 17.

    different-church-lady

    July 11, 2017 at 3:33 pm

    @TenguPhule: It’s probably a lot like land boundaries: once the marker is set in place and agreed to, that’s the legal line, even if it was surveyed incorrectly.

  18. 18.

    Mike in DC

    July 11, 2017 at 3:33 pm

    I support the new administration’s full employment plan for lawyers.

  19. 19.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:33 pm

    @James Powell:

    I’m pretty sure that no matter what the facts are, one good terrorist attack in the US and it the story will disappear from the news forever.

    Depends on the color of their skin and religious denomination.

  20. 20.

    Another Scott

    July 11, 2017 at 3:34 pm

    Meanwhile… TheHill:

    Republican leaders on Tuesday outlined a revised ObamaCare replacement bill that will be unveiled on Thursday ahead of a planned vote next week.

    The revisions are aimed at winning over additional support, but it remains deeply in doubt whether the bill can get 50 votes.

    Importantly, senators said the Medicaid sections of the bill would remain largely unchanged from the initial draft, a blow to moderates who had pushed for easing cuts to Medicaid. That means a new cap on Medicaid spending will still drop after 2025, leading to deeper cuts opposed by moderates. And funds for ObamaCare’s expansion of Medicaid will still end in 2024.

    Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), a member of leadership, said “what we had in the original bill has not changed with regard to Medicaid.”

    A change from the initial draft, though, is that senators said they expect two ObamaCare taxes on the wealthy will not be repealed, providing additional revenue for the bill. Those taxes are a 3.8 percent tax on investment income and and 0.9 percent payroll tax.

    […]

    A controversial conservative amendment from Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) remains up in the air.

    Corker said there will be two drafts of the bill provided on Thursday, one with the amendment and one without.

    Leaders have said they are still waiting on the Congressional Budget Office analysis of the amendment before making a decision on including the change or not.

    Some conservatives have raised fears that the CBO was not given information fast enough to be able to score the amendment in time.

    The CBO score of the overall bill is expected Monday.

    More at the link.

    They’re seemingly still going to try to force something through. I don’t believe that McConnell is going through this exercise just to destroy Cruz (though I’m sure he’d like to get that as a side benefit). He’s going to do everything he can to pass something that destroys Obamacare – it’s who he is.

    Grr.

    Keep fighting!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  21. 21.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:34 pm

    @Mike in DC:

    I support the new administration’s full employment plan for lawyers.

    You say that as if you expect the lawyers to actually be paid on time and in full.

  22. 22.

    scav

    July 11, 2017 at 3:35 pm

    Is there a way to muddle the distinction between coal miners and lawyers? it’s looking be child’s play to employ at least the state of West Virginia’s worth fairly soon. Not too far of a drive and it would provide a campaign-promise success! to crow about.

  23. 23.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 11, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    I wonder if anyone in the office has pointed this tweet out to Bob Mueller?

    Julian Assange @ JulianAssange
    Contacted Trump Jr this morning on why he should publish his emails (i.e with us). Two hours later, does it himself:

    Mazel Tov Cocktail‏Verified account @ AdamSerwer 2m2 minutes ago
    Mazel Tov Cocktail Retweeted Julian Assange
    so y’all email a lot or….?

  24. 24.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    July 11, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    @A Ghost To Most: That’s literally the reasoning of any revanchist movement that accepts foreign aide, like the Nationalists in Spain accepting aide from Hitler and Mussolini.

    They’re the true patriots and did what they had to do to win

  25. 25.

    trollhattan

    July 11, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    @Miss Bianca:
    I’ve learned from the Donny in Chief that the #1 reason to have a lawyer is suing people. Another quarter are busy drawing up NDAs and the rest are the defense/countersuit team.

  26. 26.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    July 11, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    One wonders if Donnie Junior’s retainer check has cleared yet.

    I have doubts.

  27. 27.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:36 pm

    @Another Scott: So all of this shit is going to flow together and come to a head by the end of the month.

    1. Trump Treason.
    2. Republican Deathcare.
    3. Federal Debt Meltdown

    What could possibly go wrong?

  28. 28.

    efgoldman

    July 11, 2017 at 3:37 pm

    @Ian G.:

    former Soviet intelligence officers who murder political opponents and shake down individuals and businesses are the lesser evil vs. people like us

    The most significant people they’re afraid of are their primary base voters (the 27%) and their big donors.
    In no particular order.

  29. 29.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:37 pm

    @scav:

    Is there a way to muddle the distinction between coal miners and lawyers?

    I respect lawyers. Coal Miners, not so much these days.

  30. 30.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    July 11, 2017 at 3:43 pm

    No dream is too big to fulfill, what can Oprah do for you?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XVTbO8Ea054

  31. 31.

    jl

    July 11, 2017 at 3:43 pm

    When will there be a video mash-up of all the lies these GOP and Trumpster goons have told about collaboration and contacts with Russia? With commentary to explain the degree of bald faced-ness and outrageousness of each one.
    I guess there will have to be a brief version, a full length feature, and an special uncut edition with editor’s commentary.

    Anyway, I want all three. I want to send the links to some Trumpster friends and family.

  32. 32.

    rikyrah

    July 11, 2017 at 3:43 pm

    @Another Scott:

    They’re seemingly still going to try to force something through. I don’t believe that McConnell is going through this exercise just to destroy Cruz (though I’m sure he’d like to get that as a side benefit). He’s going to do everything he can to pass something that destroys Obamacare – it’s who he is.

    Grr.

    Keep fighting!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    We gotta keep on fighting.

  33. 33.

    Miss Bianca

    July 11, 2017 at 3:43 pm

    You know, you step away from the Intertubes for *one moment* and when you come back the scene is unrecognizable. Again. Or would that be “still *more* unrecognizable”?

  34. 34.

    Van Buren

    July 11, 2017 at 3:44 pm

    If only there was a blue dress involved somehow, so that people would start to focus on the transgressions…

  35. 35.

    Major Major Major Major

    July 11, 2017 at 3:44 pm

    @Another Scott: It feels like Mitch is flailing, which is very out of character.

  36. 36.

    oatler.

    July 11, 2017 at 3:44 pm

    WORKS ON CONTINGENCY NO MONEY DOWN
    WORKS ON CONTINGENCY? NO, MONEY DOWN!

  37. 37.

    jl

    July 11, 2017 at 3:45 pm

    Lying liar who always lies.
    Franken may have coined a term that describes our political age.

  38. 38.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:45 pm

    @Van Buren:

    If only there was a blue dress involved somehow, so that people would start to focus on the transgressions…

    Blue is so not Donnie’s color of choice.

  39. 39.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:46 pm

    @Major Major Major Major:

    It feels like Mitch is flailing, which is very out of character.

    To be fair, even he didn’t see this coming.

  40. 40.

    liberal

    July 11, 2017 at 3:46 pm

    Adam (OT):

    Do you have a link for the stuff you cited about (Theda Skocpol’s?) research on the Tea Party being wrong (based on a faulty dataset from (Putnam?))? I think you said John Sides had a better analysis, but I can’t remember the details and I couldn’t find you comment in a search I did a few days ago.

    Best,

    L

  41. 41.

    Chris

    July 11, 2017 at 3:47 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    Don’t forget Vichy, where “accepting help from foreign governments” became “become the butt monkey of the foreign government that just invaded and defeated you in war,” which was still held up as The Patriotic Thing To Do.

    Because Judeo-Masonic Vast Left Wing Conspiracy, argle bargle.

  42. 42.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:49 pm

    @Miss Bianca:

    You know, you step away from the Intertubes for *one moment* and when you come back the scene is unrecognizable. Again. Or would that be “still *more* unrecognizable”?

    It’s a day ending in Y.

  43. 43.

    randy khan

    July 11, 2017 at 3:51 pm

    @Another Scott:

    Republican leaders on Tuesday outlined a revised ObamaCare replacement bill that will be unveiled on Thursday ahead of a planned vote next week.

    The revisions are aimed at winning over additional support, but it remains deeply in doubt whether the bill can get 50 votes.

    Importantly, senators said the Medicaid sections of the bill would remain largely unchanged from the initial draft, a blow to moderates who had pushed for easing cuts to Medicaid. That means a new cap on Medicaid spending will still drop after 2025, leading to deeper cuts opposed by moderates. And funds for ObamaCare’s expansion of Medicaid will still end in 2024.

    Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), a member of leadership, said “what we had in the original bill has not changed with regard to Medicaid.”

    A change from the initial draft, though, is that senators said they expect two ObamaCare taxes on the wealthy will not be repealed, providing additional revenue for the bill. Those taxes are a 3.8 percent tax on investment income and and 0.9 percent payroll tax.

    So, uh, what are they doing with that money? I have a hard time imagining the bill getting more than 25 votes if it combines the Medicaid cuts with no tax cuts. It seems like a combination designed to make everyone mad. (Maybe that’s it – they want to see if they can get support down to single digits!)

  44. 44.

    A Ghost To Most

    July 11, 2017 at 3:51 pm

    @TenguPhule: All of them, Katie

  45. 45.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 3:53 pm

    The Actual Emails. FSM, Trump Jr is the second dumbest asshole on Earth.

    Really, the summaries don’t do the actual shit justice.

  46. 46.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    July 11, 2017 at 3:53 pm

    @Chris: Can’t forget the French right, weirdos they were. They absolutely hated the Third Republic and wanted it destroyed. TBF, assuming the Nazis “won” WW2, they would’ve likely pulled out of France and allowed the Vichy regime to take over total control of the country as a puppet. I believe that was Germany’s plan.

    Was Petain a true fascist or was he just a patsy? Or maybe an authoritarian in the vein of Franco or Salazar

  47. 47.

    Brachiator

    July 11, 2017 at 4:00 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    Does Trump even have Pardon power if the election results were tampered with?

    Yes.

    Trump is president of the US, not “the provisional president pending evaluation of the validity of the election.”

  48. 48.

    Mike in NC

    July 11, 2017 at 4:03 pm

    Trump won’t be bringing back coal mine or factory jobs, but there are lots of under-employed law school graduates and aspiring standup comedians in the country.

  49. 49.

    jl

    July 11, 2017 at 4:03 pm

    @randy khan: I’d guess they are shoring up individual market and employer markets at the expense of Medicaid. Probably trying their old wedge tactic, fooling people into believing that only ‘those people; and white trash will suffer. I think that too many people now understand how important Medicaid is for elder care for people far into middle class ranks for that to work anymore, though.

  50. 50.

    CZanne

    July 11, 2017 at 4:03 pm

    @scav: well… doc review is endless, back-breaking toil in a windowless, dark room full of carbon for no reward, with little chance of advancement. There are similarities.

    @TenguPhule: DPRK lighting a candle. Russia’s eyes are myopic and astigmatic in that direction (or they’re lying). Missile defense interceptors fire off, they get Lil Kim’s birthday candle, but the other three dozen of them continue on trajectory and take out a few square miles of Primorsky. Moscow thinks it was an unprovoked attack (or say they do) and fire off their first battery. Goodbye, North Dakota, Colorado Springs and Seattle. ICBMs are not a binary system.

  51. 51.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 4:06 pm

    @jl:

    I think that too many people now understand how important Medicaid is for elder care for people far into middle class ranks for that to work anymore, though.

    Sadly cites facts clearly not in evidence.

  52. 52.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 11, 2017 at 4:09 pm

    @TenguPhule:

    cites facts clearly not in evidence.

    The shouted protests that have made GOP congressmen abandon town halls and hide, and overloaded the Capitol Hill switchboards for weeks at a time.

  53. 53.

    Quinerly

    July 11, 2017 at 4:09 pm

    Rep Marsha Blackburn thinks we really should be asking questions about the Clinton Foundation’s relationship with Russia and what Pres Obama said to the “country.” http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/marsha-blackburn-maybe-trump-jr-got-duped

  54. 54.

    Mary

    July 11, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    I cannot imagine what it would be like to be a young law firm associate assigned to the Trump representation team.

  55. 55.

    Chris

    July 11, 2017 at 4:11 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    I often thought of the Third Republic during the Obama years; the backstory is that there was a fairly large chunk of the public that never really accepted republicanism/democracy as a political system, and spent the entire time in a state of culture war against the new system (the Dreyfuss Affair being one of the best known public battles in that war). By the late 1930s, when the secular/liberal republic gave them a Jewish prime minister, you had legislators literally screaming “better Hitler than Blum!” which… analogize with Obama Derangement Syndrome as you will. A few years later, 1940 finally gave them a chance to destroy the monster they’d spent the last seventy years fighting, and they hated it so much that working with the Nazis was no more difficult for them than working with Trump/Putin has been for 95% of Republicans.

    I don’t know exactly what the plan was for after the war, but that sounds plausible. The French, like most of the people to Germany’s West, weren’t considered equal to Germans (who was?) but they also weren’t considered exterminable subhumans like the Slavs and I don’t think there were any big plans for Lebensraum in that direction (not counting Alsace-Lorraine), so client states is a likely outcome. They might have tried to do some redrawing of borders – there were some weird ideas along those lines, like the creation of an “SS State of Burdundy” that would’ve merged parts of France and Belgium under a local fascist movement.

    I honestly don’t know a whole lot about the state of mind of Petain – I’ve read about the regime but not much about him personally. From what little I know, he was a good guy (relatively) in World War One who was horrified by the “just keep sending them over the edge, we have reserves” mentality of so many other generals and actually gave a shit about the welfare of his men. I think conventional wisdom is that that experience, the “holy shit, this war was a massacre, we cannot have one like it again” mentality that came out of it, plus all the generically conservative/authoritarian ideas that a career French officer would’ve picked up by osmosis if nothing else, made him the ideal leader for a project like Vichy.

  56. 56.

    TenguPhule

    July 11, 2017 at 4:12 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The shouted protests that have made GOP congressmen abandon town halls and hide, and overloaded the Capitol Hill switchboards for weeks at a time.

    Compared to the number who will still faithfully vote R, come what may. Not enough.

  57. 57.

    Frankensteinbeck

    July 11, 2017 at 4:14 pm

    @TenguPhule:
    A 15 point shift in elections, forcing Republicans to scramble to barely keep seats they thought utterly impossible to lose, suggests it is, indeed, enough. People are pissed, and most Republicans are not as well protected.

  58. 58.

    Chris

    July 11, 2017 at 4:21 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    FYWP ated my response.

    For Petain, I don’t actually know for sure – I’ve read about Vichy but not much about him personally. He was a good guy, more or less, in World War One, where he was one of the generals who actually cared about the men and was horrified by the “just keep sending them over the edge, we have reserves” mentality of so many of his peers. Conventional wisdom is that this, and the “holy shit, we cannot afford another war like this one” mentality that came out of it, combined with basic conservative/authoritarian values that he would’ve picked up in the military by osmosis if nothing else, combined to make him the perfect man to lead the creation of something like Vichy.

  59. 59.

    Seth Owen

    July 11, 2017 at 4:28 pm

    I’ve said for quite some time that Republicans have made a huge gamble that may end up actually sending the GOP into the dustbin of history, to be replaced by another party on the right distinct enough to plausibly deny being just a rebranded Republican Party. Maybe the Libertarians, more likely something new. The Republicans can survive a lot, but the one thing they can’t survive is a reputation of disloyalty. It killed the Federalists after the War of 1812. If the popular, general perception becomes that the GOP is the party of Putin then they are dead.

    It’s likely to trigger a period of chaos and factionalism. Several parties may arise to claim the mantle of the right. The Democratic coalition may shatter as well. There may even be a wholesale re-alignment that re-arranges the deck shares so thoroughly that today’s divisions will become muddled. The election of 1860 had four major party candidates. Nothing says there can only be two.

  60. 60.

    efgoldman

    July 11, 2017 at 4:34 pm

    @Quinerly:

    Rep Marsha Blackburn thinks….

    False on its face. Bales of hay are smarter.

  61. 61.

    Boatboy_srq

    July 11, 2017 at 4:41 pm

    @James Powell: This DOES have a certain “Summer of 2001” feel to it, doesn’t it?

  62. 62.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    July 11, 2017 at 4:52 pm

    @Seth Owen: How might the Dems, shatter?

  63. 63.

    James Powell

    July 11, 2017 at 5:20 pm

    @Mary:

    Well, for starters, there will be no problem hitting the billable hours target.

  64. 64.

    Matt McIrvin

    July 11, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I’m seeing a developing split between the economic/foreign-policy left and the racial/cultural justice wing. If the Republicans come out of all this still in total control it’ll probably be because of that.

  65. 65.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 11, 2017 at 5:34 pm

    @liberal: I know that Skocpol used Putnam’s data set from Bowling Alone because she references it in her work. I’ve never seen anything published, but it wasn’t much of a secret within political science circles that his data was cooked. When called on it he blamed his grad assistants. It wasn’t Sides stuff that I indicated was a better explanation, it was that political science professor from U Washington who actually has valid data and legit empirical results. One other Putnam issue: his theory for Bowling Alone is plagiarized from the Chicago School of Criminology’s neighborhood studies. I actually asked Putnam about this, without calling it plagiarism, when he was brought into UF while I was a postdoc there to give a series of talks. He claims to have never read Merton in grad school. Given when he went to grad school, and the dearth of political science literature at the time and the fact that Merton is Merton, I find that hard to believe.

  66. 66.

    Vhh

    July 11, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    @TenguPhule: The Predident’s pardon power is essentially unlimited. You will recall that Ford pardoned Nixon for offences for whivh charges had not yet even bern laid, mch less litigated.

  67. 67.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    July 11, 2017 at 7:27 pm

    @Matt McIrvin:

    the economic/foreign-policy left

    I’ve seen that as well. They’re being played for dupes by Putin and various other factions on the right

  68. 68.

    liberal

    July 11, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: very interesting. Thanks.

  69. 69.

    liberal

    July 11, 2017 at 8:10 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: which Merton is this? (IANAPS)

  70. 70.

    liberal

    July 11, 2017 at 8:12 pm

    @Seth Owen: there’s that theorem in political science that first past the post plus I think single member districts implies that usually if not always you’ll converge on two parties.

  71. 71.

    Adam L Silverman

    July 11, 2017 at 10:02 pm

    @liberal: Robert K Merton. He was the premier Durkheimian scholar in the US prior to WW II. He, himself, was not part of the Chicago School, but a portion of their work was rooted in his translation of Durkheim into American social science. Specifically his take on Durkheimian anomie known as strain theory.

  72. 72.

    liberal

    July 12, 2017 at 11:43 am

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks.

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