Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

If America since Jan 2025 hasn’t broken your heart, you haven’t loved her enough.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

It’s pointless to bring up problems that can only be solved with a time machine.

Republicans: The threats are dire, but my tickets are non-refundable!

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

When we show up, we win.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Imperialist aggressors must be defeated, or the whole world loses.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Fucking consultants! (of the political variety)

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Open Thread: Mike “Call Me Iago” Pence

Open Thread: Mike “Call Me Iago” Pence

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The man famously considered “Dense” even by Congressional Republican standards may have had more political smarts than the crime family who put him on the ticket…

Of course, Pence is a big Old Testament reader, and that book is full of stories about treachery and intergroup strife…

PHRASING!

Maybe Mike Dense, despite his claims at the time, actually did find that logo personally hurtful…

He’s afraid Pence’s people will change the locks while he’s gone.

Reader Interactions

154Comments

  1. 1.

    jl

    Mike Pence, He Was Dense Enough to Stay Clean!

    I think that would make a good re-election campaign slogan for 2020.

  3. 3.

    Raoul

    It could be Pence. It could be a 400 lb dude in a basement finally getting his revenge.

  5. 5.

    jl

    I can hear the chants now at the next GOPer convention:

    Mike Pence!
    So Dense!
    No Sense!
    Lead Us Hence!
    Hurrah!

  6. 6.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Hmmm. I have been deeply impressed by Pence’s stupidity, but it doesn’t take much brains to betray your criminal boss. Particularly if you’re not smart enough to realize the legal gun goes against your own head next. Pence will not incriminate himself the way the Trumps have, but if he’s in on the Russia thing that won’t save him. The Trumps have surely handed Mueller enough leads to nail everyone involved.

  7. 7.

    Adam L Silverman

    @jl: Manafort personally recruited him to be VP. To the point of manipulating the President into picking him by messing with Pence’s flights.

  8. 8.

    Yarrow

    Manafort brought Pence into the campaign. Pence is involved. He knows plenty about things that happened after he joined the campaign. Traitor.

  10. 10.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: And what’s in all those redacted emails from when he was Governor of Indiana? While Gov he apparently met with some shady characters tied to Russia. He’s far from innocent. If he becomes president he won’t be there long.

  11. 11.

    Hal

    Fuck it. I want Trump out. Pence is not brilliant. He as stupid as Trump, just a different kind of stupid. I was listening to a podcast from The Stranger in which Dan Savage made what I thought was a great point about Pence vs Trump. Donald Trump keeps you up at might wondering what’s next. Pence will be terrible, don’t get me wrong. But maybe not in the post apocalyptic sci-fi movie sense that Trump is.

  12. 12.

    Thoughtful David

    I have a hard time seeing Pence come out of this clean and safe. When Trump goes down, he’s going to make sure everyone he can goes down too. Including the US.

  14. 14.

    jl

    I’m working on the Mike Pence campaign song.
    Sorry Baud, I found bigger screw-ups to work with.

    He could be whiling ‘way the hours, conferrin’ with other prisners
    Consultin’ with the rain.
    And he’s head would be scratchin’ while
    His thoughts were busy hatchin’
    If he only had a brain.
    He’d unravel all the riddles for Trumpster individ’ls,
    In trouble or in pain.
    With the thoughts he’d be thinkin’
    He could be those clues a linkin’
    If he only had a brain.

  15. 15.

    Yarrow

    @Baud:

    If Trump and Pence get into an open feud, I will be sooooo happy.

    Remember, Trump will throw EVERYONE under the bus to protect himself. Pence may think he’s safe. He’s not.

  18. 18.

    dww44

    Since this is an Open Thread I’ll ask the question that’s been bugging me for at least a couple of days when I observed that I wasn’t seeing any Raven comments. Is he okay?

  19. 19.

    mdblanche

    Mike Pence is just the piano player in this here establishment. Whatever the girls and their gentleman callers are doing upstairs was arranged at a meeting before he joined the campaign.

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    My big fear about Pence is that he’s the fundie-supported candidate. They actually say that he was put there to carry out God’s will. So IMO the odds of violence ratchet up in a major way if Pence gets into the Oval Office.

  22. 22.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: I am snarking. There is a reporter from Indiana who has been commenting on how similar Pence’s moves are as veep to what he pulled as governor.

    Point is, either Pence is involved or he is too stupid to find his way to the WH and back home again.

  24. 24.

    smintheus

    So how does Pence square this out-of-the-loop crapola with his earlier claim that nobody in the Trump campaign had any contacts at all with Russians?

    Trump’s problem is Pence’s problem: They both lie so often that only the naive continue to believe any of their claims.

  25. 25.

    lamh36

    @igorvolsky
    Don Jr. to Sean Hannity tonight: “Someone sends me an email. I can’t help what somebody sends me.”

    Amazing.

  26. 26.

    Yarrow

    @Baud: Pence can’t be fired but things can be released that show him to be a traitor. Why did Manafort bring him into the campaign? That has to pre-date anything in the campaign itself, so the ties are there. Release that info, he goes down. Trump blames Pence for all the Russian contacts. Done. Won’t work, but Trump may try it.

  30. 30.

    BCHS Class of 1980

    A common refrain here but I find it very difficult to believe that Trump didn’t arrange for some slime to be directed Pence’s way. After all Trump has no loyalty and it was a shotgun marriage anyway…

  31. 31.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @lamh36: What Jr apparently doesn’t groak is what matters is how he responded to the email

  32. 32.

    Citizen_X

    I hope Donnie is dumb enough to try to “You’re fired!” Pence. I want to hear his Tweetrage when he’s told he can’t do that.

    And I’m not afraid of Pence. His political instincts are so bad that, when he was governor, he had made himself hated in Indiana. INDI-FUCKING-ANA.

  33. 33.

    smintheus

    @bemused: Reminds me of how the Patriarca mob family of Rhode Island fell apart in a spree of mind-boggling stupidity a few decades ago.

  34. 34.

    Jeffro

    My RWNJ dad and brother tried to tell me today that they a) aren’t really behind Trump, they just fully support his agenda(!), and b) they aren’t following things very closely until actual indictments come down “…instead of talking heads just saying things…and if Trump’s removed, [they’re] fine with President Pence or President Ryan”

    I was, um, a little surprised at the rather strident tone I took in responding. (You might even call it shrill.) Especially at that last part. Truly, the Fox Bubble is strong with these two.

  38. 38.

    jl

    @Jeffro: With luck the knucklehead Trump vote will drop off (by HRC’s estimate that is about half), and half of the die hard bigots and authoritarians will tell themselves that He is not the one who is to come, lo, let us look for another.

  39. 39.

    Roger Moore

    @smintheus:

    So how does Pence square this out-of-the-loop crapola with his earlier claim that nobody in the Trump campaign had any contacts at all with Russians?

    He was an innocent dupe of their lies.

  41. 41.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Remember the night before Trump announced that Pence would be his running mate? And remember all those stories that he was calling aides and his campaign manager and family members at midnight to ask if it was too late to change his mind and choose somebody else?

    And then remember the actual announcement the next day, when Trump talked about the wonderfulness of himself for half an hour, recalled finally that he was there to announce Pence, basically said “Oh, by the way, it’s Mike Pence, great guy, you’ll love him” and then walked off the stage leaving Pence out there on his own?

    Remember all that? Good times, good times.

  43. 43.

    japa21

    @lamh36: So Hillary was actually fine, as she couldn’t help what anybody emailed her, correct?

    People were talking about how dumb Don Jr. was to release his email chain. Actually it was pretty smart. Remember, he had said that they came to him. The lawyer involved, however, said that the campaign approached them about getting dirt (which coordinates well with the earlier story put out there). Perceptually, there is a big difference between initiating the contact and responding to a contact. Legally it may make no difference, but perceptually, it is a big difference. Donny Jr didn’t release the email chain until after the Russian lawyer made her claim.

  44. 44.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Citizen_X:

    Trump: Pence is fired!

    Aide: Uh, you can’t fire him sir. He’s elected too.

    Trump: Somebody get Vlad on the phone! I think Mike needs some try some Russian tea

  45. 45.

    Anne Laurie

    @dww44: Raven’s been in the On the Road posts, at least. I think real life is just keeping him particulary busy right now.

  46. 46.

    bemused

    @smintheus:

    I don’t know that story but watching the Trump family and equally dumb WH inner circle makes the people apprehended on the “reality” show Cops look smart.

  50. 50.

    Patricia Kayden

    @jl:

    Mike Pence, He Was Dense Enough to Stay Clean!

    I think that would make a good re-election campaign slogan for 2020

    Watch it. You’re beginning to encroach on Baud’s position as Balloon Juice jokester.

  53. 53.

    Roger Moore

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    What Jr apparently doesn’t groak is what matters is how he responded to the email

    I’m not sure he believes there was anything wrong with the way he handled it. Winning is everything, and only suckers follow the rules. Why is everyone picking on him for doing everything he could to help his daddy win the election?

    [pedant]And the word you’re looking for is grok not groak. To grok means to understand a thing so well it becomes part of you. To groak means to stare at somebody while they’re eating hoping they’ll invite you to share.[/pedant]

  56. 56.

    Greenergood

    Well, if Pence goes to jail, at least he doesn’t have to worry about going to social occasions where there are women (or alcohol) present other than his wife …

  57. 57.

    bemused

    @Jeffro:

    Fox “intelligence” reporter did talk about Jr’s emails but left out all words Russia. No wonder their viewers don’t know shit.

  66. 66.

    germy

    Melissa McEwan‏Verified account @Shakestweetz 4h4 hours ago

    Always good to remember when Pence tries to distance himself w/ timelines that he was recruited to the ticket by Manafort.

  67. 67.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    b) they aren’t following things very closely until actual indictments come down “…instead of talking heads just saying things…and if Trump’s removed, [they’re] fine with President Pence or President Ryan”

    I’m afraid those two are destined for FEMA reprogramming camps at the rate they’re going.

  69. 69.

    Roger Moore

    @japa21:
    I don’t think it helps him much. Maybe he didn’t initiate contact, but he was obviously eager to get dirt on Clinton, no matter the source, and by his own recent admission was terribly disappointed when the Russians didn’t produce immediately.

    Also, too, this ought to put an end to any claim the hacked emails came from anywhere but Russia. It strains belief to think the Russians were trying to trade dirt on Clinton to the Trump campaign in exchange for help lifting sanctions and then somebody else turned up the DNC emails immediately afterward.

  70. 70.

    TenguPhule

    @Mnemosyne:

    So IMO the odds of violence ratchet up in a major way if Pence gets into the Oval Office.

    Don’t you mean when he gets evicted?

  71. 71.

    Patricia Kayden

    @mdblanche: Pence’s voice: “Whatever are you implying? Those ladies and gents are simply conducting Bible studies in the upper levels. You impure heathen! O Mother, where is the fainting couch?!”

    You know he’ll put on a song and dance to portray himself as the innocent victim of that philandering, cussing Trump (and his villainous family) who he never knew before he was forced to be his VP.

  72. 72.

    TenguPhule

    @Hal:

    Pence will be terrible, don’t get me wrong. But maybe not in the post apocalyptic sci-fi movie sense that Trump is.

    So Less Hunger Games and More Handmaid’s Tale.

    I don’t think the females here will consider that an improvement.

  73. 73.

    Roger Moore

    @Greenergood:

    Well, if Pence goes to jail, at least he doesn’t have to worry about going to social occasions where there are women (or alcohol) present other than his wife …

    Though he’s going to have to be careful on the whole sodomy angle…

  75. 75.

    TenguPhule

    @Roger Moore:

    Though he’s going to have to be careful on the whole sodomy angle…

    Its not gay as long as their balls don’t touch.

  76. 76.

    buddhacat

    First time commenting here, been a lurker for a long time.

    If both trump and pence go down, does Paul Ryan become president?

  77. 77.

    p.a.

    Don Jr points gun at his own head. Pence starts laughing at him. Don Jr: “Why are you laughing? I get you next.”

  79. 79.

    Steeplejack

    @mdblanche:

    Mike Pence is just the piano player in this here establishment.

    Reminds me of the dimly remembered joke about the naïve young woman hired as a maid in a brothel. Her concerned mother asks if she is behaving and being treated correctly. The girl answers: “Yes, they’re all very nice to me, and I only have to help out a little when it gets really busy.”

  82. 82.

    Jeffro

    @bemused: It must be very weird to work there…trying to report things so that your viewers aren’t totally blindsided by the events of the day should they encounter another, non-Fox-addled human being; yet, figuring out how to spin things like…like treason.

  87. 87.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    Is starting a blog a good idea? Asking for a friend

  88. 88.

    Roger Moore

    @buddhacat:

    If both trump and pence go down, does Paul Ryan become president?

    It depends on how things go down; a scandal big enough to take down the President and VP is unpredictable. If the vortex gets big enough to suck in both of them, it may well catch Ryan, too, since he was involved in blocking Obama’s attempt to publicize the whole matter before the election. If he doesn’t get sucked in, there’s always a chance whichever one of Trump and Pence leaves office second could manage to successfully nominate (and have confirmed) a replacement VP before being forced from office himself. I find that unlikely, since the nominee for VP would have to be approved by the House, and Ryan would have every incentive to stall the confirmation.

  89. 89.

    Jeffro

    @TenguPhule: The Pence/Ryan thing was the last straw. “I’m okay with treason, even if it means that yet another Republican president is removed from/leaves office in disgrace, as long as the next batter up gets to push the GOP agenda.” Oh hellll no. If the Russians aided the ticket, and they did, the whole ticket’s been put into power by a hostile foreign power and we’re revoting or we’re invalidating Trumpov’s “win” and awarding the presidency to HRC. 65 million voters were deprived of their right to vote last November by these assclowns. No way that stands.

  91. 91.

    lamh36

    This whole mess is ridiculous…smh. I’m just gonna but still I’m wait for indictment announcements if/when they come before I even give it heavy thought

    So enough politics, lets talk movies.

    First up, Atomic Blonde with Charlize Theron (Red Band Trailer), opening date: July 28, 2017

    So I’m hoping Atomic Blonde is REALLY good and not all the fight sequences showcased on in the trailer… the original John Wick was so good because so many of the fight sequences weren’t featured in the trailer!

    Apparently, Theron did alot of stunt training for the fight sequence!
    Stunt training

  93. 93.

    scav

    @Roger Moore:

    Though he’s going to have to be careful on the whole sodomy angle…

    He might have been in or at least exposed to training already. Because, in his world, one he clearly is comfortable with as he stays there, unaccompanied, When you’re a rich white [felon/man], you can grab them [what’s available] by the [what’s available].

  95. 95.

    Quinerly

    @Jeffro:
    I’ve being following too much RWNJ stuff today. Started early this AM when I read that Hannity was blaming Obama for allowing the female Russian attorney into the country. Overload for sure.

  97. 97.

    bupalos

    I do this watching sports too, and it annoys people I watch with- I know it’s focussing on the small things right after we got a 50 yard bomb, but…

    I can’t believe they are getting away with this idea that Jr. just decided to release his emails suddenly. All the outlets have it as Jr voluntarily releasing this stuff. THE TIMES WAS PUBLISHING IT AND CALLED HIM FOR A COMMENT. He punked them to get some marginal control of the story, period.

    He should be getting ZERO credit, people should be laughing at how hamfisted it is. Instead I even heard some dem saying we thank him for being so transparent but….

    Yeah, it’s transparent, but not like that. But it’s already being talked about like the fact that he released it is evidence that he at least doesn’t believe he did anything wrong. What??!

  99. 99.

    germy

    Morning Joe is no longer a republican.

    A prominent former Republican politician and cable news host has announced he is leaving the GOP.

    MSNBC host Joe Scarborough was a three-and-a-half term member of Congress from Florida, but is leaving his party despite his prominent media perch as a conservative.

    He is now an “Independent” (just like every wingnut I’ve encountered since Bush II). They call themselves independent but repeat the same stupid talking points I hear from actual… you know, republicans.

  101. 101.

    Jeffro

    @buddhacat: @?BillinGlendaleCA: @Roger Moore:

    The timeframe is also important. There will be some time in between indictments here, and assuming Trumpov’s one of those indicted, or impeached, Pence would take the oath of office (possibly while also under investigation/indictment, which is, um, interesting). Who knows who he’d nominate as his VP, but it’d almost have to be someone with some sort of distance from Trumpov. That in itself would take a while, and then we’re knee-deep into investigations, hearings, indictments, trials, plea-bargains, and everything else…and probably coming right up on the 2018 elections, too.

    At that point, the investigations might still be looking in to Pence…and we might just have a Dem House ready to impeach him for what he did, what he’s covered up, what he’s lied about, or all of the above. Who knows.

    I think the most probably scenario at the pace we’re going is that Trumpov is gone from office by the 2018 elections, and that Pence will preside over the dissolution of the Republican party as it limps into 2020.

  104. 104.

    JPL

    @Jeffro: What agenda are they for? Tax cuts for the one percent while those working at Walmart can not afford health care. Well actually they could afford health care, if they chose not to eat and slept in tents.
    just wondering.

  106. 106.

    Quinerly

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: That was this AM. Just a few minutes ago he had an exclusive interview with Trump Jr. (who obviously isn’t listening to any advice of his new counsel)

  110. 110.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: There’s all kinds of weirdness and hinky people in Pence’s background. E.g. in just a few minutes of looking around this evening:

    McClatchyDC from January 2011:

    In the House he led a conservative charge against President George W. Bush’s move to expand Medicare to cover prescription drugs, complained about rising budget deficits under Republican rule and unsuccessfully challenged John Boehner of Ohio for leadership of House Republicans after the party lost control of the chamber in 2006.

    He won the chairmanship of the House Republican Conference two years later, the third spot in the party’s leadership, but he stepped down at the start of this Congress as he wrestled over whether to run for president or governor of Indiana.

    The group that formed to support him, called America’s President Committee and led by former Republican Rep. Jim Ryun of Kansas and former Reagan administration lawyer Ralph Benko, said it was rallying behind Pence because he was the only potential candidate with a consistently conservative record.

    “Mike Pence has demonstrated the ability to enthusiastically advance the cause of conservatives and constitutional, limited government, and for that reason I am encouraging him to get in the race,” Ryun said.

    “One, he actually has a track record of speaking truth to power, standing up to his own party’s leadership on the things that have tarnished the Republican brand, such as the vast expansion of entitlement benefits and the TARP,” Benko said in an interview, speaking of the bank bailout known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

    “Two, he is absolutely, unflinchingly conservative. He does not trim his message to his audience. He talks about all three aspects of the Reagan recipe: social values, economic conservatism and national security.

    Who’s this Ralph Benko character?

    CanadaFreePress from April 2014:

    Some conservatives inexplicably have drifted from Reagan’s position. Some Republicans also seem unaccountably tepid toward Puerto Rican statehood. As for the Democrats, who knows? Statehood for Puerto Rico is not high on official Washington’s agenda.

    That can be changed. Just the possibility of Puerto Rico’s joining Russia, and of America then awakening to find Russia only a 60 minute flight from Miami, likely would galvanize sudden conservative Republican enthusiasm for the idea of Puerto Rican statehood. Maybe it even would energize the liberal Democrats.

    If advocates of Puerto Rican statehood wished to transform their cause into a very high priority matter for Washington, there is a ready way. Pick up the telephone and dial +7 (495) 606-3602, Mr. Putin’s office.

    Ask for an appointment with Mr. Putin.

    Send a delegation.

    Start an international conversation.

    For the benefit of my more literalistic readers… this modest proposal is not a call for Puerto Rico to join the Russian Federation. It is presented as a way for some of our fellow American citizens to approach an apathetic, out of touch, Washington, DC with citizen power and with the dignity, instead of supplicant status, that citizens deserve in dealing with their federal government.

    Eh?!?

    WTF?

    Who, writing a political column, claiming to be “conservative”, advocates running to Russia with the prospect of taking American territory?!?!

    Yeah, he’s not to be taken “literally”. Sure. But what kind of thought process leads one to write such a thing, and publish it??

    Pence is up to his eyeballs in this Russia stuff, whether he is smart enough to realize it or not.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  111. 111.

    NotMax

    @TenguPhule

    No love ever lost* between him and me, but even Orrin Hatch (next in line after Lyin’ Ryan)?

    *Hell, no like lost either, for that matter.

  112. 112.

    NR

    @TenguPhule: I agree. Pence wouldn’t be any better than Trump. Yes, Trump is doing bad things, but he’s ineffective and he’s his own worst enemy. He hasn’t even filled most of the vacant positions in the federal government, for crying out loud.

    Pence, on the other hand, would be just as bad as Trump on most issues (and probably worse on some others, like gay rights for example), but he doesn’t have chronic foot-in-mouth disease, he would quickly fill all the vacant positions in the government with a combination of Christian college graduates and the usual partisan Republican political hacks, and he would at least be smart enough to do basic things like have the White House lawyers look over sweeping executive orders before issuing them. Not to mention that he’d have a united Republican party behind him and a media that would be favorably comparing him to Trump and saying how “presidential” he was at every turn.

    Replacing Trump with Pence would not be a win.

  113. 113.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lamh36:

    So wait…so the pres briefings are STILL not allowed to be on camera…smh

    Even Mar-a-Liasson on NPR sounded slightly peeved about that today.

  115. 115.

    TenguPhule

    @NotMax:

    No love ever lost* between him and me, but even Orrin Hatch (next in line after Lyin’ Ryan)?

    Tweets coming out that even Hatch is making excuses for Trump, saying “its just the kid, so no connection to Trump himself”.

    I stand by my remarks.

  116. 116.

    Jeffro

    @JPL: That’s kind of what I told them: you’re letting yourself be led down this path, justifying things that you never would have imagined yourself justifying a year ago, and for what?

    And more importantly, where will you be a year from now?

  118. 118.

    sdhays

    In the excited daydreams of Trump shitting all over Mike Dense (more than is his usual – thanks for the awesome reminder, @SiubhanDuinne!) and bringing him down as well, I feel it’s necessary to point out that if Dense is as complicit in all of this as we think likely, Dense is also taking orders from, or at least deeply attentive to the desires of, Vladimir Putin. Trump is normally reckless and undisciplined, but when Daddy Putin is watching and Russian interests are involved, Trump stays on message. If Putin warns Trump about lashing out at Dense, Trump will keep his shit-hole shut. That’s how you do business with the Russian Mafia as long as Trump has and live to shit all over your country.

    So we’ll just have to see what pleases the Puppet Master…

  121. 121.

    Jeffro

    @NR:

    Replacing Trump with Pence would not be a win.

    I’m sorry, but Trump must go – justice demands it and our national security demands it. Pence will face his own set of consequences, and his own roadblocks.

  122. 122.

    WaterGirl

    @lamh36: They finally figured out that there’s an internet and that video makes it harder to deny they said whatever it is they want to deny.

  124. 124.

    r€nato

    Tonight’s guest on Hannity: Donald Trump Jr.
    SYNOPSIS: Hannity lovingly tosses Trump the Lesser’s salad, and confesses that while he’s not into scat play, he might give it a try with Trump Jr. and his father.

  126. 126.

    danielx

    The man famously considered “Dense” even by Congressional Republican standards may have had more political smarts than the crime family who put him on the ticket…

    Not to belabor the obvious, but that wouldn’t require a lot of heavy lifting even for Pence.

  127. 127.

    danielx

    @Citizen_X:

    His political instincts are so bad that, when he was governor, he had made himself hated in Indiana.

    Actually his political instincts aren’t bad, they just tend to be outweighed by the evangelical baggage he trucks around with him.

  129. 129.

    BCHS Class of 1980

    @bupalos: I’ve heard on MSNBC that the email chain looks incomplete. Since the pattern of the NYT on this story is to drop crumbs, let Junior flounder a little, and then to drop more crumbs contradicting him, it wouldn’t surprise me if they withheld some emails while suspecting he might only release the ones that he was asked about.

  131. 131.

    MisterForkbeard

    @BCHS Class of 1980: Right. The whole thing about Russian Secret Agent Lady saying “They came to us and were really desperate” is probably true – it just happened outside of this particular email chain. Most likely arranged some weeks or months earlier, especially since THIS mail contains allusions to having already established a relationship with Russia to support Trump’s campaign.

  132. 132.

    satby

    OT, though I know nothing really is in an open thread. My rescue is having a very small fundraiser to have a tumor removed and biopsied for a sick cat that was ditched at one board member’s house. We have a lot of spay neuters in the pipeline, so any help to pay this vet bill would be met with extreme gratitude! Our goal isn’t much, but we’re really overextended right now.

  133. 133.

    Gvg

    One of the problems with Ryan succeeding Pence IMO is that I think the house gop
    Is overloaded with self centered egos right now and I have always wondered if someone might challenge him for the speakership if it starts looking likely that both the POTUS and VP are about to go. Remember they were so split they had trouble agreeing on Ryan.
    If some republican’s have had enough at some point in the evidence and either or both Ryan and McConnel try to stop impeachment, it wouldn’t take too many GOP rebels to make Peloisi speaker or schummer Senate leader. They don’t think like that though.

  134. 134.

    ET

    Ahhhh Tweeters come through… Trump = Manchurian Cantaloupe and Junior is the orange that doesn’t fall far from the tree.

  146. 146.

    satby

    @Another Scott: You truly are an inspiration yourself, and I am constantly in awe of both your determination, intellect, and generosity. You educate, enlighten, and share so freely with us here. Thank you so much Scott!

  148. 148.

    J R in WV

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    There was evidently a pretty bad storm in his neighborhood, with huge trees down and at least one old home destroyed… so he could be preoccupied right now.

  149. 149.

    satby

    @Omnes Omnibus: I wandered over from Duncan’s place too, long time ago when Cole was still a conservative. Haven’t checked back at Eschaton for years, now that I think about it.

  151. 151.

    No One You Know

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:
    To the tune of “Turn Back, O Man” from GodSpell

    Turn back, O-man,
    forswear thy private ways,
    Trump now is Putin’s
    And none may
    punt his plays,

    Dada-Dadada

    Yet while we seethe
    And in that seething grief,
    no man but you
    could take us
    from this pyrite thief

    Turn back O-man
    Turn back O man
    Turn back O man

    relieve our foul disgrace!

    instrumental bridge

    Turn back the GOP
    for we can’t find a phrase
    to make them honest, nor to
    doubt their ways

    Dada-dadada

    Gilt-edged, gold dreams
    we dream they guilty be
    would we but wa-a-ake
    Constitutionally

    Turn back, O GOP
    Turn back, O GOP
    Turn back, O GOP

    FORSWEAR.THY.FOOLISH.WAAAAAAAAAYS.

  153. 153.

    J R in WV

    @buddhacat:

    Unless several members of the legislative branches of the government are also busted for treason… Like Pauly Ryan. But, yes, if Pence and Trump are impeached at the same time, Pauly would be the new guy.

    If Trump is impeached/resigns and Pence becomes president, he can nominate a new VP, who would replace Pence if Pence later is impeached or resigns. But if that nominee isn’t confirmed by the time Pence leaves office, then again, Pauly Ryan would be sworn in. Sad. I hope Pauly is indicted along with Hatch and McConnell even before Trump is in deeper hotter water.

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