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These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

I desperately hope that, yet again, i am wrong.

I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

Those who are easily outraged are easily manipulated.

It’s a good piece. click on over. but then come back!!

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Republicans do not trust women.

The arc of the moral universe does not bend itself. it is up to us to bend it.

Not loving this new fraud based economy.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

Dumb motherfuckers cannot understand a consequence that most 4 year olds have fully sorted out.

“Facilitate” is an active verb, not a weasel word.

When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. ~Thomas Jefferson

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

He really is that stupid.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

You are here: Home / Politics / Goddamned Traitors / Open Thread: Now It’s Gotten VSP-Serious

Open Thread: Now It’s Gotten VSP-Serious

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The Dow gained it back, to close “flat”. But who else remembers the Doonesbury cartoon during the Watergate trial, where CEO Slackmeyer announces, “When the Dow drops below [x], it’s time to get the nooses”?

… The Washington Post spoke with experts who believe that emails show Trump Jr. having probably “crossed the line on conspiracy to commit election fraud or conspiracy to obtain information from a foreign adversary.”

That last part alone is illegal, Noble explained.

“Anyone soliciting a foreign contribution is violating the law,” he said — and that includes opposition research, such as what was embraced by Trump Jr. One legal bar is whether someone provides “substantial assistance” to obtaining something of value from a foreign national. “Given the emails,” Noble said, “I think that’s substantial assistance.”…

“Had he been running the Trump businesses and not been involved in the campaign. Not been traveling on behalf of the campaign. Not been speaking out for his father,” Noble said, “they might have an argument” that Trump Jr. wasn’t acting on behalf of the campaign. Trump Jr. didn’t need an official campaign title to be part of the campaign — and, besides, Noble said, he had one. Son.

(As for traveling for the campaign: Federal records show that Trump Jr. was reimbursed for nearly $30,000 in travel expenses by the Trump campaign.)

Trump Jr. was part of the campaign. Trump Jr. set up a meeting with other campaign representatives to receive what he thought was material impugning an opponent that, he was told, came directly from the Russian government. (In fact, he was told that it was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” something that President Trump has long denied existed. Trump Jr. doesn’t appear to have balked at that description.) In other words, it’s no longer possible to deny that the campaign sought to collude with the Russian government in its meddling efforts…



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To quote the younger Slackmeyer: GUILTY! GUILTY! GUILTY!

Reader Interactions

139Comments

  2. 2.

    dm

    Also, this: WaPo: “‘Category 5 hurricane’: White House under siege by Trump Jr.’s Russia revelations”

    The White House has been thrust into chaos after days of ever-worsening revelations about a meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and a lawyer characterized as representing the Russian government, as the president fumes against his enemies and senior aides circle each other with suspicion, according to top White House officials and outside advisers.

    President Trump — who has been hidden from public view since returning last weekend from a divisive international summit — is enraged that the Russia cloud still hangs over his presidency and is exasperated that his eldest son and namesake has become engulfed by it, said people who have spoken with him this week.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    I’ve been remembering those stories about Junior in college, having pretty much the same thought as my TeeVee friend Joy Reid

    Joy Reid‏Verified account JoyAnnReid
    Yeah. THAT guy took a secret meeting with a Russian operative without his father’s permission… Sure…

  4. 4.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/trump-russia-and-a-shadowy-business-partner/ar-BBCYNXQ

    While Trump’s kids were involved in the back-and-forth with Bayrock, it was Trump himself who always had the final say.

    “Donald was always in charge,” says Kriss. “Donald had to agree to every term of every deal and had to sign off on everything. Nothing happened unless he said it was okay to do it. Even if Donald Jr., shook your hand on a deal, he came back downstairs to renegotiate if his father told him to.”

  6. 6.

    MisterForkbeard

    @dm: It’s not too much to ask that reports on this also consistently mention that the meeting was between Don, Jared, Manafort and a Russian agent, is there? This isn’t just Jr we’re talking about here, Donald’s highest advisor and campaign manager were also in the room, knew ahead of time what it was about, and did nothing to stop it.

  7. 7.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: I imagine the Rough Beast listening to his whelp telling him about his big boy news, his voice tremulous in anticipation of, at long last, approval! and the old man saying, “Fill Jared in, and retie that tie so it hangs down to your crotch like a trump. Ask Miss Rhona to give you a piece of Scotch tape from her desk on your way out.”

  8. 8.

    randy khan

    The idea that DJT, Jr. didn’t tell his father about the meeting – in fact, before the meeting, is unbelievable for many, many reasons. I’m just hoping there’s proof.

  10. 10.

    SiubhanDuinne

    That photo of Don Jr holding up the bloody elephant tail trophy makes me physically ill. What a fucking monster he must be.

  11. 11.

    lamh36

    Joy Reid Retweeted Yashar Ali
    There ??is??no??bottom.

    @yashar
    Jeffrey Lord: Bill Clinton interfered in the 96 Russia election to get Yeltsin elected…………………….

    I can’t.

  14. 14.

    germy

    @SiubhanDuinne: There’s also the photo of him posing happily with dead big cats. He’s a damaged individual. I just wish he and his pa could go off and be damaged without involving the rest of us.

  16. 16.

    smintheus

    To repeat what I said before, why has the threat of blackmail not been a bigger part of this story?

    It’s a pretty major point that none of the news reports seem to address. The fact that either Donald jr. nor any of the others who knew about the conspiratorial meeting reported it to government authorities made them subject to blackmail by the Russian government (and for that matter by everyone else who knew about it).

    According to Sally Yates the most dangerous thing about Michael Flynn, at the time of his firing, was that he was subject to blackmail by the Russians over his secret communications with them. And yet others in Trump’s inner circle continue to keep similar secrets that make them equally vulnerable.

    That is a basic point that Trump & co. would have a very hard time refuting or obscuring. He isn’t preserving and protecting the United States to the best of his ability if he’s made himself subject to blackmail or surrounded himself with people subject to blackmail.

  18. 18.

    Gin & Tonic

    @MisterForkbeard: I’ll bet my house and my 401(k) that that June 9 meeting wasn’t the first time Manafort and Veselnitskaya were in the same room at the same time.

  19. 19.

    germy

    WaPo:

    Inside a White House in which infighting often seems like a core cultural value, three straight days of revelations in the New York Times about Trump Jr. have inspired a new round of accusations and recriminations, with advisers privately speculating about who inside the Trump orbit may be leaking damaging information about the president’s son.

    Don junior?

  20. 20.

    germy

    Get ready for it:

    A handful of Republican operatives close to the White House are scrambling to Trump Jr.’s defense and have begun what could be an extensive campaign to try to discredit some of the journalists who have been reporting on the matter.

    Their plan, as one member of the team described it, is to research the reporters’ previous work, in some cases going back years, and to exploit any mistakes or perceived biases. They intend to demand corrections, trumpet errors on social media and feed them to conservative outlets, such as Fox News.

  21. 21.

    FDRLincoln

    Over the years I have come to know several military folk, active duty and retired. I can’t exactly call most of them friends, but I know them well enough to discuss politics with them. The number varies from time to time but is usually around a dozen.

    They are scaring me. More than half of them, including five active duty, are backing Trump in this. Of the actives,three say it is all liberal propaganda and lies. Two of them admit that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia but they don’t see a problem with it. Seriously. They think it is just fine. This includes a person I know who freaking works in the Pentagon at a low level.

    How does this get resolved? Seriously? I want to keep a level head about this, but these people swore an oath to the Constitution and they seem more loyal to Trump than that oath.

    Adam, help us out here.

  22. 22.

    Adam L Silverman

    @germy: He went to Jared’s!

    And notice in this excerpt from the reporting that Kushner didn’t disclose this to his legal team, which is trying to dig him out of the hole he created for himself with his SF86 submission. Rather the legal team had to figure it out by going through whatever materials he gave them to review.

    While Donald Trump Jr. has been the main focus of the controversy because he set up the meeting, Mr. Kushner faces potential trouble because he currently works in the White House and neglected to mention the encounter on forms he filled out for a background check to obtain a security clearance. The emails were discovered in recent weeks by Mr. Kushner’s legal team as it reviewed documents, and they amended his clearance forms to disclose it, according to people briefed on the developments, who like others declined to be identified because of the sensitive political and legal issues involved.

  24. 24.

    Raoul

    @khead: Right now I’m not sure Ryan & McConnell can pull off a debt ceiling vote. In which case, they should go sit on beach chairs with Christie.
    How the fvk anyone, anyone can think the GOP is capable of governing is beyond me.

  25. 25.

    Adam L Silverman

    Circular fire squad time. Ready, FIRE, aim!
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/11/us/politics/russia-trump.html

    While Donald Trump Jr. has been the main focus of the controversy because he set up the meeting, Mr. Kushner faces potential trouble because he currently works in the White House and neglected to mention the encounter on forms he filled out for a background check to obtain a security clearance. The emails were discovered in recent weeks by Mr. Kushner’s legal team as it reviewed documents, and they amended his clearance forms to disclose it, according to people briefed on the developments, who like others declined to be identified because of the sensitive political and legal issues involved.

    Similarly, Mr. Manafort recently mentioned the meeting to congressional investigators looking into possible collusion, according to the people briefed on the matter.

    Advisers said the president was annoyed not so much by his son as by the headlines. But three people close to the legal team said he had also trained his ire on Marc E. Kasowitz, his longtime lawyer, who is leading the team of private lawyers representing him. Mr. Trump, who often vents about advisers in times of trouble, has grown disillusioned by Mr. Kasowitz’s strategy, the people said.

    The strain, though, exists on both sides. Mr. Kasowitz and his colleagues have been deeply frustrated by the president. And they have complained that Mr. Kushner has been whispering in the president’s ear about the Russia investigations and stories while keeping the lawyers out of the loop, according to another person familiar with the legal team. The president’s lawyers view Mr. Kushner as an obstacle and freelancer more concerned about protecting himself than his father-in-law, the person said. While no ultimatum has been delivered, the lawyers have told colleagues that they cannot keep operating that way, raising the prospect that Mr. Kasowitz may resign.

  26. 26.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    https://thinkprogress.org/devos-sexual-assault-bf7801b8264c

    Betsy DeVos meets with ‘men’s rights’ activists
    DeVos plans to meet with groups that dismiss domestic violence and rape allegations.

    After months of receiving requests for meetings from advocates for sexual assault survivors, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos has finally decided to sit down with them. But she’s also meeting with groups that are critical of Title IX guidance on campus rape, some of which have histories of intimidating rape survivors and dismissing domestic abuse against women.
    The department reached out to the National Coalition for Men, SAVE: Stop Abusive and Violent Environments, and Families Advocating for Campus Equality, according to Politico.

    DeVos has not taken a position on 2011 education department guidance on campus sexual assault, which expanded protections for sexual assault survivors by requiring all schools to have procedures in place to handle and quickly investigate complaints. But her decision to meet with these groups isn’t a good sign.
    The National Coalition for Men, which was founded in the 1970s, has a long history of what is now known as “men’s rights activism.” One of the groups’ chapters published the photos and names of women, while calling them “false accusers.”

    In 2012, the group supported the Republican House version of the Violence Against Women Act, which removed protections for LGBTQ people in crisis centers. The group has been very litigious when it notices events specifically designated as for women. Its members sued a strip club for letting women in for free during its “ladies night” and sued a company called Chic CEO for not letting men into a women’s networking event.

    Harry Crouch, president of National Coalition for Men, has also vocally blamed survivors for the abuse they faced. In a 2014 interview with Pacific Standard, Crouch defended Ray Rice, a former football player, who was indicted in 2014 on third-degree aggravated assault for an incident involving his then fiancee. “I’m not saying he’s a good guy,” Crouch said. “But if she hadn’t aggravated him, she wouldn’t have been hit. They would say that’s blaming the victim. But I don’t buy it.”

    SAVE: Stop Abusive and Violent Environments is included in a list of misogynist websites put together by the Southern Poverty Law Center. In 2013, SAVE published an article alleging that many civil rights, like the “right to privacy in family affairs,” have been “undermined by domestic violence laws.”

    Assuming that the article, which is still on the site, represents its views, SAVE also thinks attorneys should be able to ask “detailed, often intrusive questions about the accuser’s prior sexual history.” The group takes issue with a federal rule that, with a few exceptions, protects survivors by not allowing evidence of a victim’s sexual behavior to be admissible in court.

    Families Advocating for Campus Equality (FACE) is a non-profit founded a few years ago by mothers of sons who were accused of sexual misconduct while they attended college. The website describes the “ruined futures” of the accused and “havoc of unjustly dismantled lives.” Under the text, “Title IX’s future victims,” the site published the story of a man who said he was falsely accused of rape and equates his experience to that of a rape survivor.
    “Falsely accused students suffer emotional trauma similar to that of rape victims, and yet receive no emotional support from their colleges,” the site reads.

    Researchers estimate that somewhere between 2 to 10 percent of rape allegations are false, but even among those who are falsely accused, it’s rare for men to end up in prison as a result. For students who are found responsible for sexual assault, only 30 percent were actually expelled, according to a 2014 Huffington Post analysis of data from over 100 schools.
    But that hasn’t stopped FACE. One of its founders, Sherry Warner-Seefeld, told the National Review that on the whole, she found it “dangerous to our country” to require universities to conduct annual surveys on sexual assault and publish the results online.

    Hosting these groups further hints that Devos may be open to rescinding the 2011 expanded guidance on Title IX protecting sexual assault survivors. During her confirmation hearing in January, Devos said there were “conflicting ideas and opinions around that guidance” and said it “would be premature” to commit to upholding the guidance.

    DeVos has also donated to a group that opposed the guidance. The Dick and Betsy DeVos Family Foundation made donations totaling $25,000 to Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE), which has shared articles dismissive of sexual assault survivors. One read, “Unfortunately, much of the feminist ‘war on rape’ has conflated sexual assault with muddled, often alcohol-fueled, sexual encounters that involve miscommunication.”

    In April, the department welcomed Candice Jackson as the deputy assistant secretary and acting assistant secretary of the Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights, which oversees investigations into how universities handle campus rape. Jackson has previously called the women who accused Trump of sexual assault during the campaign “fake victims.”

    Whatever the department decides on the 2011 guidance, it is already making moves that would adversely affect sexual assault survivors. An internal Office for Civil Rights memo sent by Jackson narrows the approach of investigations into civil rights complaints, which includes campus rape. This means that the department will stop requiring staff to look at three years of complaint information in order to understand systemic discrimination within a school district or university. The memo also loosened oversight of regional offices.

  29. 29.

    smintheus

    @germy: They better go after Trump jr. too, he’s the one who first released the supposed emails. Destroy his credibility and the email/treason problem goes away.

  30. 30.

    Adam L Silverman

    @germy:

    A handful of Republican operatives

    Let’s see:
    Rage Furby
    Gorilla Mindset
    Posobiec
    Weeve
    Dickinson
    Everyone at Rebel Media

  31. 31.

    p.a.

    Somewhere in the Kremlin: “well, Plan A, using the Chumps to advance our interests is now problematic in the extreme given what the Chumps themselves are admitting publically. Who knew corruption could be so compatible with incompetence? America, what a country! We’ll hope for the best, but Plan B now seems to be our probable outcome: the bollixing up of the US government and electoral system. Still a win, but could have been so much more.”

  33. 33.

    Adam L Silverman

    @FDRLincoln: I don’t know the folks you know, so I can’t really comment. Among my friends, friends who are former colleagues, and colleagues there is a range of responses. A couple of hard core tribal responses: “we don’t believe anything in the fake news media, everything is fine”. Some middle of the road responses of concerned. And some outright shocked and appalled.

  35. 35.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman:

    And they have complained that Mr. Kushner has been whispering in the president’s ear about the Russia investigations and stories while keeping the lawyers out of the loop, according to another person familiar with the legal team. The president’s lawyers view Mr. Kushner as an obstacle and freelancer more concerned about protecting himself than his father-in-law,

    So he’s sort of a dipshit Svengali?

  37. 37.

    germy

    @Adam L Silverman:

    A handful of Republican operatives

    It’ll trickle down to my local sinclair-owned local news station.

    They’ll work the talking points subtly into their reporting, and probably cut to someone from Circa for “deeper” analysis.

  40. 40.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: The issue is that we’re fast approaching where all the different lawyers involved have responsibilities to steer their clients into doing things that protect them regardless of the harm it may do to everyone else involved. This includes father/father in law, son/son in law, daughter, key aides and staff, close friends and associates, etc.

  42. 42.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: Yep. Do we know if Ivanka and Jared have the same lawyers? It would be hilarious if they turned on each other. Will Trump throw Jared under the bus to save Ivanka? Will Ivanka turn on Daddy to save Jared or vice versa?

  46. 46.

    Gin & Tonic

    I’m reading that Moanin’ Joe is going to go on Colbert and step out of the Republican Party.

  49. 49.

    FDRLincoln

    @Adam L Silverman: I know you can’t comment about the specific people I know, but I’m speaking more generally. The military reflects the fractions in society. I’m just trying to figure out how we get back to “normal” politics and I just don’t see how it happens. The rule of law is hanging by a thread. That’s the way it feels anyway.

  51. 51.

    Adam L Silverman

    @FDRLincoln: I don’t have a read on the military as a whole. I expect that they’ll follow the chain of command and the chain of command will remain responsive to civilian control over the military. And I expect SecDef Mattis will do his job.

  56. 56.

    Jack the Second

    So there’s this scene towards the end of The Man in the High Castle (the book, dunno about the TV show) where the characters realize they’re living in a fictional alternate history.

    I’m glad I read a lot of PK Dick now, because I feel prepared for what I’m experiencing.

  59. 59.

    Laura

    @Gin & Tonic: watch him try to scrape that shit right off his shoe.
    Joe Scarborough gave Trump seemingly unlimited access to phone in during the entirety of his campaign. Running away from the stench that he owns in an attempt to resurect his brand and appease some potential advertisers needs to be called out for the scam it is.
    Who’s willing to wager he hired a crisis consultant?

  60. 60.

    germy

    @Gin & Tonic: morning joe/moaning low is now an “Independent” (just like every wingnut I’ve encountered since Bush II). They call themselves independent but repeat the same stupid talking points I hear from actual… you know, republicans.

  61. 61.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: Manafort…and Kushner…are selling Don Jr. out, with Don Jr.’s assistance? They’re going to try and save their own quite-guilty selves by giving up DJTJR?

    Could you just bury me in popcorn now, in my living room? But leave me the remote – I want to see Fox’s take on all this. Say what, it’s OBAMA’s fault for ‘letting in’ that witchy Russian lady adoption advocate person, who ‘set up’ Don Jr? Thanks Fox News!

  62. 62.

    Barbara

    @Timurid:

    Some obstruction-y stuff going on…

    This would be truly crazy. It would be evidence that Trump Sr. knew of the meeting (bad in and of itself) and then, that he lied about it. It makes me question his state of mind.

  68. 68.

    Adam L Silverman

    @germy: He’s looking to sell his plan to turn US and NATO Operations in Afghanistan over to him to run as a Viceroy with a contract military, including military and law enforcement trainers. Basically he’s looking to line his pockets. There is no evidence that a contractor force would be any more effective than what we’ve been doing. And what we’ve been doing has been, at best, tactically successful and strategically pointless.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Jeffro: No worries. As usual no rhyme nor reason for why comments wind up in places other than where they should be.

  73. 73.

    Barbara

    @Raoul: His lawyer for this stuff is Jamie Gorelick, who has been whining to her friends at the Washington Post that her longtime Democratic insider friends are giving her the big freeze because she is representing Jarvanka. Apart from being a blockhead for not understanding why her friends might feel that way, I deduced that there is no way she is going to let herself go down in service to Kushner. So yeah, if he refused, I could totally see her telling them to find new counsel.

  75. 75.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Adam L Silverman: oy Reid ✔ @ JoyAnnReid
    GOP source tonight: “WH on fire”; blame game in full effect. Jr. still talking despite advice and Q’ing who his father is more loyal to. 1/2

    small comfort when you think that the Beast is still President, but it’s making me chuckle this evening.

  77. 77.

    Tenar Arha

    @Adam L Silverman: Well actually ?, the better WWII analogy would be that Carlson in the days after Pearl Harbor was bombed trying to argue that maybe the Japanese didn’t attack us.

  78. 78.

    Barbara

    @Yarrow: One of the proffered reasons some of the well-known Washington power lawyers would not get involved was a fear of not having their advice followed. At that level, they typically are turning people away and they don’t need the frustration or the loss of reputation from not being in control. If Kasowitz has already reached that point, that’s a very bad sign.

  79. 79.

    Adam L Silverman

    @germy: Who knows. Under what authority would he and his contractors operate? They’re not law enforcement at any level. They’re not the US military. So the only thing close to authority they would have is force and, if they’re operating on private property they’ve been hired to secure/protect as a private security force, property rights and law. But in public spaces they’d be just a bunch of armed people making a nuisance of themselves. This is not something I’m particularly worried about.

  80. 80.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s same guy I and Quinerly mentioned earlier today. Definitely a classic neocon to be going after Carlson like that. Totally right comparing him to Charles Lindbergh apologizing for Hitler.

    Fuckboy Carlson got his bowtie in a twist kept trying to talk over him

    No. You don’t make “temporary alliances” with countries that interfere with your democratic process

  81. 81.

    germy

    Judd Legum‏Verified account @JuddLegum 1h1 hour ago

    Hannity getting a legal opinion on the Trump Jr. meeting.

    Oh, from who?

    A member of Donald Trump’s legal team.

  82. 82.

    Cain

    While I feel bad about his youth and Trump as his father… There is absolutely no excuse for hunting a gentle creature for sport like the Elephant. Fucker.. I hope someone cuts off something he cares about.

  84. 84.

    Lapassionara

    @FDRLincoln: I agree. It is hard to imagine how we get past this without serious stuff happening. Just remember, the people you are talking about are grieving right now. Their white knight has failed them, is failing them, and they are in the denial stage. They will not listen to reason. But maybe later, …. We can hope.

  88. 88.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman: Ah, I should send this on to my dad and brother…they can relate. To Carlson, not Peters, unfortunately.

    This is the real-time problem x the tribalism problem. This whole insane mess is hard enough to process on its own: a dipshit reality TV star, horrible human being, and repeated business failure vaults to the head of the pack of a bankrupt political party and, with the help of a hostile foreign power’s hacking (and financial assistance?) not only wins the party nom but the presidency against a qualified, pretty moderate (by both current and historical standards) candidate. It feels like it happened in a week, but in reality Trumpov declared, what, less than two years ago? (And as a publicity stunt for his sagging fortunes at that!)

    Then we hit the tribalism problem: while both parties have ‘sorted’ themselves to some degree, like Mann & Ornstein have said, it’s far worse on the R side. That’s where the real departures from the norm are happening. That’s where the arsonists reside. Mostly thanks to the reinforcing ‘bubble’ of Fox and Breitbart and OAN and worse.

    So now we have crazy stuff like the Fox nitwits tonight, trying to say that Obama…OBAMA!…is at fault for letting the Russian lawyer-lady in to the country, and then she then proceeded to lay a trap for poor Don Jr. Mind. Boggling.

    Anyway, along those lines (and this is suitable for Tucker Carlson, if anyone wants to relay it to him), here’s how I wrapped up my rather-shrill screed to my RWNJ dad and brother, trying to get them to think about what they are continuing to go along with:

    A year ago, you both probably never could have thought you’d be making the excuses you’re making, for people who don’t care about this country, and who don’t deserve your loyalty…where will you be a year from now?

  89. 89.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Lapassionara: This. Of my most extreme bernie-bro friends, most of them were like this in July. About 1/2-1/3 of them went to vote for Hillary for November, though they’re still being asses about it.

    Many of these people are reachable once the shock wears off.

  92. 92.

    efgoldman

    @Lapassionara:

    they are in the denial stage. They will not listen to reason.

    They brought this on themselves by being the knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing, ignorant racist flying monkeys that they are in the voting booth.

    Fuckem.

  93. 93.

    randy khan

    @Barbara:

    If Kasowitz has already reached that point, that’s a very bad sign.

    And Kasowitz is a guy who’s used to Trumpland, having represented him for a long time.

  94. 94.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Adam L Silverman: Carlson would make up excuses for Trump pulling the same shot here as long as they were liebrals.

    Some patriot!

  97. 97.

    efgoldman

    @randy khan:

    Kasowitz is a guy who’s used to Trumpland, having represented him for a long time.

    In civil matters (lawsuits, divorce, contracts). Don’t think he’s done much criminal practice. Very different kettle of crustaceans.

  98. 98.

    cokane

    the revolting part is going to be watching Pence, Ryan and McConnell and tens of millions of Republican voters flush all this shit down the memory hole. Trump wasn’t a real conservative! Not even an actual Republican! Shit, they won back the House two fucking years after doing that with Bush

  99. 99.

    Cain

    @efgoldman:
    If he quits, I’m not sure what kind of lawyer he would be able to get his hands on since nobody wants to be tarnished defending this clown and the shit show that is happening all the time. I mean the number of unforced errors are multiplying, no lawyer wants a client who can’t even keep his mouth shut.

  102. 102.

    efgoldman

    @Cain:

    If he quits, I’m not sure what kind of lawyer he would be able to get his hands on since nobody wants to be tarnished defending this clown

    Weren’t there stories a month or so ago that Apricot Asswipe was trying to hire a criminal defense lawyer/team, and he couldn’t find anybody who’d take it on?

    ETA: I guess word gets around when the potential client has a reputation for not paying bills.

  103. 103.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    A few random things on my mind [sic] about this “Rusher thing”…

    I’d be amazed if Czar Manbaby’s hardest core backers ever turn on him. People in Congress will. Most of them don’t give a shit about him. They were willing to sign on with this wretched creature because they thought they could get what they wanted from him. They thought they could tame him. They were stupid, but that’s how they saw him, a means to an end.

    And the second that they calculate that they’re the least, tiniest bit better off without him than they are with him, they’ll cut him off. The timing of that calculation will vary from one to another, but they’ll cut him loose when they think it’s worth it for them.

    Those are the people who will be the loudest in shouting that they never liked him, he was never one of them, they never had anything to do with the guy, they wouldn’t know who he was if they ran into him on the street, and that nobody should ever try to tie their names to Trump’s in any way. They’ll try to scrub the taint of Trump off themselves as surely as we breathe. We cannot let that happen. Ever. Those people are the ones whose necks we are going to have to lash Trump to so tightly that they can never unknot themselves from him.

    But most of his voters will stick with him, whatever comes. He could shoot somebody on the street and they’ll stick with him. He could rape a nun on the street at high noon and they’d stick with him. I think there is literally nothing he could do or say, even confessing that he is indeed working for Putin and taking money from him and has been for 20 years, that would shake their belief in the guy. They’d stick with him if he told them all tomorrow that he’s been taking money from ISIS for the last two years to further their interests. It’s an article of faith with these people.

    We don’t really need to worry about Czar Manbaby’s 27%. They’ll always be with him, and when he goes, they’ll do one of two things. Either they’ll find somebody else just like him to latch onto, Ted Nugent or Curt Schilling or some other lowlife fascist racist asshole, or they’ll just get disillusioned and give up on politics altogether. Either way, there’s no reason to worry about them because there’s no way to reach them.

    But the Republican political weasels, officeholders and operatives, the ones who try to crawl out from beneath his rock back into the light… They are the problem. These are the people we need to watch. We need to see to it that the stench of this shitstain is indelibly stuck to them forever.

  104. 104.

    Steeplejack

    @smintheus:

    The fact that [n]either Donald Jr. nor any of the others who knew about the conspiratorial meeting reported it to government authorities made them subject to blackmail by the Russian government (and for that matter by everyone else who knew about it).

    Conversely, the threat of blackmail could be the reason why they didn’t report it.

  106. 106.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    Something else that struck me today… Has anybody else heard people talking about the Miss Universe thing in Moscow in 2013 or whenever it was? They were talking about it on the news. A news show. Not some entertainment show, a news show. Actual, normal, rational people are now talking about this Trump-Russia conspiracy and bringing up a Miss Universe pageant in Moscow because that actually somehow has something to do with it. This is a Constitutional crisis that may hinge on what happened at a Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.

    The surreality of this whole shit show fail parade is, well, surreal. We’ve reached the point where the fact that this is as surreal as it is is itself surreal. It’s like a nesting Russian doll of surreality.

  107. 107.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.): The Agalarovs, who are known cut outs for Putin, and have been business associates with the President for years, and, it is believed the go between/cut out between the President and Putin, were involved with the pageant in Moscow that year.
    1:
    https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/new-details-emerge-moscow-real-estate-deal-led-trump-kremlin-alliance-190126219.html

    2:

  108. 108.

    ? Martin

    We are not even remotely close to hitting bottom.

    In 2015 – while Donald Trump was firing up his presidential campaign – Mr Kushner was working with his biological father to keep the property from going underwater. The men zeroed in on Qatari billionaire sheikh Hamad bin Abdullah Al-Thani (HBJ) as a potential investor.

    HBJ eventually agreed to invest $500m in the property, sources tell The Intercept, on the condition that Kushner Companies found the rest of the money for the multi-billion-dollar project on its own.
    …
    Without the help of Anbang, Kushner Companies could not meet the rest of HBJ’s funding demands. According to one source in the region, HBJ killed the deal. According to another, he simply put it on hold.
    Either way, a diplomatic crisis centred around Qatar broke out shortly thereafter. In early June, at least six Gulf Region countries severed or reduced ties to the country, claiming it had supported terrorism.
    …
    Mr Trump, however, unleashed a string of criticism toward the country, calling it a “funder of terrorism at a very high level”.
    “So good to see the Saudi Arabia visit with the King and 50 countries already paying off,” he tweeted on 6 June. “They said they would take a hard line on funding, extremism, and all reference was pointing to Qatar.”

    The President’s position took Mr Tillerson by surprise, and sources say he suspected Mr Kushner was behind it all.
    A source close to Mr Tillerson told The American Conservative that the Secretary of State is convinced that some of Mr Trump’s remarks were written by UAE ambassador Yousef Al Otaiba – a close friend of Mr Kushner.

    “Otaiba weighed in with Jared and Jared weighed in with Trump,” the source said. “What a mess.”

    So, any bets on whether this is part of an effort to shake down Qatar for the money, presumably to be repaid by the US taxpayer when the US renegotiates the lease on the base? Or maybe SA and UAE put the money up in exchange for us siding against Qatar.

  110. 110.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I see that randy made the same point long ago. Sorry.

    You know, I just had a thought. It’s a shame that there isn’t a technological solution to the problem of people posting responses 30 min or more after someone has made the same observation, but hasn’t seen it yet. Maybe if there were some way to, I dunno, to give the reader the option of putting the responses near the comment no matter when they’re made chronologically, maybe offset a little on the page or something. Maybe like a, I dunno, strand in a carpet, or a thread in a towel. Or something.

    .
    .
    .
    .

    Ow! Stop it!

    Ok, I’ll quit now.

    ;-)

    ‘night all.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  111. 111.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Another Scott: No worries on my end. I try not to complain when something like that happens. We generate a lot of comments. This is going to happen. Getting angry about it is like getting angry because water is wet.

  112. 112.

    Tenar Arha

    @Adam L Silverman: Yep. Agreed. (I feel like I’ve got permanent whiplash now with all the flipping positions. It’s like yesterday doesn’t exist anymore in Faux-landia. I guess I’m at the point that it’s so refreshing to hear someone use a historical analogy correctly that I want to expand to using even more).

  114. 114.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Another Scott: Blow me. Threaded comments are anathema. And if you want that, there are lots of blogs that do it. This blog works this way per Cole. If you don’t like it, perhaps you should email him. There are are a lot of regular commenters here who are stay here because of the format. For many, it is a feature not a bug. Just stop it. You keep trying to make this space just like everyplace else. Tommy tried that too. The reason that this place works is because it is different. You will kill it if you succeed.

  115. 115.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: This is bad but also hilarious. Who in their right mind would stay at a Trump hotel property? Wouldn’t you wonder if the rooms had hidden cameras and everything you did and said was recorded and saved for blackmail purposes? And that your credit card info would be compromised? The wifi would be insecure and allow people access to your computer, tablet and phone? Given everything we know about Trump and how he operates, that’s what I’d think about. I would not stay at one.

  117. 117.

    danielx

    @Barbara:

    Kasowitz isn’t exactly a Washington power lawyer. Here we have a civil attorney from NYC whose career has consisted recently of browbeating people for Donald Trump and defending the same from lawsuits. One who moreover has little criminal experience (I know, I know, hold the jokes) nor yet much experience with election law, national security issues or constitutional law issues. Not exactly high qualifications in DC legal circles, I don’t think, although probably highly qualified in Trump’s mind because he does what Trump wants. Unfortunately for Trump, what he wants at this point – for this whole deal to just go away – isn’t going to happen regardless of how much paper Kasowitz generates.

  119. 119.

    Yarrow

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): How’s that any different than their Never Trump issue where a bunch of “serious conservatives” opined on how awful Trump is? They’ve been anti-Trump for awhile now but it doesn’t seem to make any difference with the GOP base. The base loves them some Trump.

  120. 120.

    ? Martin

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): Nah. The WH has long passed the point where everyone is in reputation survival mode. That’s shifting to the punditry. Soon it’ll shift to rank and file Republicans.

    Minds are not changing. Positions are being strategically abandoned and new ones formed. These people are lifers – their minds don’t change.

  121. 121.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: I always bring my own mini router (Apple Airport), ask for a cable, and run my own secure wifi. But I’m funny that way.

  122. 122.

    ? Martin

    BTW, Josh Marshall deserves a fucking nobel prize or something for ‘Trumps Razor’: “ascertain the stupidest possible scenario that can be reconciled with the available facts and that answer is likely correct”. It has been brutally accurate for a year running now.

  124. 124.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    @? Martin:

    also the corollary, which is when it comes to Trump it’s not just as bad you could imagine, it’s worse than you can imagine. Which is what’s being dangled out there now.

  126. 126.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: I’ve stayed at the Grand Hyatt, but I did not know it was a Trump property when I did. I also was not given an option on where I stayed as the lodgings were booked for me by the Army for temporary duty in NY.

  127. 127.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    @Yarrow:

    Yes, the NRO put out it’s noted Never Trump issue, but they’ve been pretty much back in camp since he won. I spend a minute or two scanning their headlines once a week or two, and I’m just remarking on a shift in tone. It’s no sea change, by any means, but they aren’t Hannity-level stupid and stubborn. It’s undoubtedly silly of me to expect a genuine awakening over there. Such transformation is rare: Cole, perhaps Frum, Charles Johnson. One can hope.

  129. 129.

    Mel

    @Yarrow: Ivanka herself is apparently currently being sued by an Italian couture shoe designer for allegedly copying some of his house’s shoe designs. I can’t figure out how to get the darned link to load, but it’s worth a Google to see the nearly identical shoes and read the designer’s thoughts on the situation.

  130. 130.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, if you don’t have a choice that’s another issue. But when one can choose…

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): Any kind of shift and recognition that he’s a traitor and this whole thing is a disaster for the country is good. I’m not sure how much clout they have with what the Republican party has become. Not sure they know that yet, or maybe they’re just figuring it out.

  131. 131.

    Aleta

    Marc Kasowitz, the New York lawyer whom President Donald Trump has hired to defend him in these inquiries, told ProPublica through a spokesman that he does not have a security clearance — the prerequisite for access to government secrets. Nor does he expect to seek one.
    …
    “No question in my mind — in order to represent President Trump in this matter you would have to get a very high level of clearance because of the allegations involving Russia,” said Robert Bennett, who served as President Bill Clinton’s personal lawyer. Like many Washington lawyers, Bennett has held security clearances throughout his career.
    …
    Kasowitz’s lack of a security clearance could hinder the president’s legal and political response to the scandal. One possible explanation for Kasowitz’s decision not to pursue a clearance: He might have trouble getting one.

    In recent weeks, ProPublica spoke with more than two dozen current and former employees of Kasowitz’s firm, Kasowitz Benson Torres LLP, as well as his friends and acquaintances. Past and present employees of the firm said in interviews that Kasowitz has struggled intermittently with alcohol abuse, leading to a stint in rehab in the winter of 2014-15. Several people told ProPublica that Kasowitz has been drinking in recent months. (The vast majority of those who spoke to ProPublica for this article declined to be quoted by name, citing Kasowitz’s penchant for threatening lawsuits.)

    Experts on federal security reviews told ProPublica that recent episodes of alcohol abuse are a major barrier to receiving clearance. … Investigators typically raise flags about behaviors that might make someone vulnerable to blackmail or suggest poor judgment.

  134. 134.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    “Anyone soliciting a foreign contribution is violating the law,”

    I always wondered why more wasn’t made of those fundraising emails various leaders of other countries received from the Trump campaign soliciting donations. Those were the very definition of soliciting contributions from foreign entities and people pointed and laughed but no one made a legal issue of it. The Russian meeting is worse of course but it seems like they’ve had him dead to rights on that violation for the better part of a year.

  135. 135.

    J R in WV

    @magurakurin:

    The reason number one I spend far more time here is the straight-line comments.

    LGM is a great site,,with great front page people and mostly good comments, but that threaded style gives me a pain in the butt.

    And also too, P. Trump has a lawyer without a Security Clearance? They’re gonna need someone who can look at the evidence, aren’t they?

  136. 136.

    Another Scott

    @Anne Laurie:

    FYWP has decided that anything longer than about five paragraphs is spam.

    I’m not sure that’s always true. I think there are magic words that tickle the monster independent of how much text there is.

    Let’s see…

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Fusce et ante mollis, suscipit metus non, laoreet lectus. Aliquam vitae bibendum tellus. Aenean eget mattis nisi. Sed faucibus est nibh, quis mattis lectus porttitor at. Proin efficitur magna sit amet turpis suscipit bibendum. Curabitur ac arcu sed ligula pulvinar ultrices. Suspendisse tempus arcu in est malesuada, vel porttitor turpis semper. Nunc quis nisi in augue cursus tristique at in justo. Vivamus laoreet volutpat metus, a hendrerit felis elementum ut. Praesent volutpat nulla at pretium eleifend. Donec pharetra mauris diam, vitae fermentum massa cursus non. Vivamus facilisis eleifend blandit. Morbi mi lorem, interdum eget tincidunt vitae, vulputate quis metus.

    Curabitur a tortor molestie, elementum arcu scelerisque, euismod dolor. Donec dictum, libero in vehicula condimentum, nisi ligula laoreet velit, in sodales dui est id libero. Donec non velit et ante posuere condimentum. Nam vestibulum ullamcorper lectus ut commodo. Duis vel velit vitae ipsum aliquet luctus. Donec leo turpis, lobortis eget sem sit amet, gravida dapibus velit. Integer sed diam eget sem rhoncus egestas eget eu orci. Nam ac rhoncus nisi. Nam a purus in turpis mollis volutpat non faucibus massa. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus.

    Nunc egestas bibendum tempus. Nam volutpat pretium sem, eu tempor tellus egestas id. Suspendisse potenti. Aliquam et malesuada lorem. Suspendisse nunc elit, vestibulum et arcu ut, venenatis bibendum arcu. Fusce at turpis sed dolor vestibulum auctor. Aliquam gravida massa tortor, nec consequat lorem cursus ac. Sed id orci metus. Aenean interdum ultricies euismod. Orci varius natoque penatibus et magnis dis parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus. Donec tincidunt bibendum aliquet. Nulla eget erat odio. Cras in nisl nec velit pharetra rutrum vestibulum at nibh. Etiam risus metus, mattis in odio nec, pretium sodales enim.

    Vestibulum libero sapien, vestibulum quis ipsum eget, auctor faucibus justo. Curabitur lectus metus, efficitur imperdiet condimentum id, viverra sed ex. Integer gravida blandit augue, et dapibus nisl imperdiet quis. Proin blandit eleifend enim vitae auctor. Nunc eros justo, imperdiet nec magna sit amet, consectetur egestas ligula. Interdum et malesuada fames ac ante ipsum primis in faucibus. Nullam vel lacus maximus, scelerisque ipsum eu, pellentesque nisi. Proin in efficitur felis, quis consectetur arcu. Sed porttitor ornare leo, id feugiat nisl ultrices ut. Cras et maximus mi. Phasellus mi tortor, bibendum quis malesuada eget, mollis et ipsum. Nullam nec eros purus. In id feugiat nibh. Mauris iaculis est in ex ultricies, in tempor elit imperdiet. Donec ac nibh sollicitudin, faucibus sem quis, laoreet orci.

    Sed nec luctus odio, ut pretium sapien. Maecenas in lacus at urna hendrerit mollis in non purus. Sed vel ipsum sapien. Praesent eu arcu dictum, sagittis dui facilisis, lacinia erat. Nam ut nunc pellentesque, hendrerit tellus sed, finibus urna. Duis maximus lacinia neque interdum commodo. Mauris vel varius erat. Vivamus sollicitudin aliquet augue et fringilla. Cras elementum consectetur nisi, a egestas tortor mattis vel. Integer tincidunt aliquam quam, ut auctor leo porttitor at.

    Donec vestibulum arcu egestas mi rhoncus interdum. Morbi malesuada ligula ac blandit rhoncus. Morbi faucibus efficitur eros, varius mollis sem dictum a. Proin ullamcorper non nisl a elementum. Duis ex tellus, ultrices at commodo ac, elementum sed massa. Ut vitae elit vel elit fermentum dictum id eu ante. Quisque malesuada ex eget varius egestas. Etiam auctor arcu in maximus tincidunt. Mauris porta lorem in ornare commodo. Nam maximus arcu ipsum, id maximus odio congue in. Etiam eleifend odio risus, auctor feugiat est vulputate ac. Sed a sapien ex.

    Etiam ex nisi, maximus a iaculis vel, ultricies quis augue. Aenean sagittis viverra nulla sit amet commodo. Vivamus et consectetur odio. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere cubilia Curae; Sed mattis tempus dolor pellentesque tempus. Aliquam non feugiat libero. Curabitur at mauris consequat, mattis mi sed, ultricies orci. Mauris a quam venenatis, porta sapien et, faucibus ante. Etiam vitae porta magna, pellentesque tincidunt nulla. Duis ut diam luctus, suscipit tellus a, condimentum leo. Aenean ornare varius egestas.

    Mauris libero velit, scelerisque id condimentum eu, rhoncus eget tellus. Nullam rhoncus eget nibh ut dictum. Sed pulvinar mollis justo, scelerisque rhoncus odio bibendum at. In aliquam dignissim mi. Vivamus sagittis erat a velit viverra, et faucibus ipsum viverra. Phasellus ornare efficitur massa, vitae accumsan neque condimentum sit amet. Nulla ut magna tempus, commodo metus eu, lobortis nisi. Sed neque purus, bibendum rutrum ultricies a, tempus ut purus. Vestibulum et elit sem. Sed nec sem eu mauris convallis condimentum. Integer at augue vitae dui consequat interdum. Vestibulum porttitor nulla sit amet magna pulvinar, id sodales quam tincidunt. Vivamus placerat, sapien sed dapibus convallis, nunc felis hendrerit nulla, sit amet tincidunt ligula magna id orci. Quisque eu varius nulla. Vivamus congue sapien quis euismod dapibus. Donec ut feugiat tellus.

    Donec elementum urna id dui blandit, ac rutrum sem tristique. Sed dapibus nec lacus nec auctor. Nulla vitae mi non orci feugiat pulvinar. Donec dignissim, quam eu mollis suscipit, nunc eros euismod libero, at facilisis ex dui ac nisi. Nulla facilisi. Donec commodo, lacus vel luctus ullamcorper, erat sem condimentum tellus, id volutpat metus risus ac ligula. Nunc quis nisi a metus pulvinar aliquet in eu purus.

    Etiam id porta dui, at pharetra eros. Ut aliquet commodo diam. Curabitur congue volutpat dolor et hendrerit. Sed finibus urna et nisi hendrerit, vehicula finibus justo convallis. Aenean dapibus finibus quam. Nunc sed sem eros. Suspendisse ac sodales nunc, id mollis lorem.

    Generated 10 paragraphs, 892 words, 5896 bytes of Lorem Ipsum

    Worky?

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  138. 138.

    TenguPhule

    @khead:

    I was hoping to at least make it to the debt ceiling vote before I had to transfer everything into the G Fund.

    Bad news for you then, there isn’t any debt ceiling vote scheduled.

  139. 139.

    TenguPhule

    @FDRLincoln:

    How does this get resolved? Seriously? I want to keep a level head about this, but these people swore an oath to the Constitution and they seem more loyal to Trump than that oath.

    If you’re looking for good news, I’m afraid you’ve come to the wrong blog.

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