The Senatortoise from Kentucky shamelessly played the McCain card, and The Washington Post says Republicans are close to moving forward on renewing the wealthcare debate:
Senate Republican leaders appeared close to securing the support they needed Tuesday to begin debate on their plan to rewrite the Affordable Care Act, according to lawmakers and aides, though the proposal they would consider could change dramatically once senators begin voting.
Republican leaders now see a scaled-down version of the bill as perhaps their best chance of winning final passage on some kind of measure to overhaul Obamacare. If senators passed this stripped-down version — which some Republicans refer to as “skinny repeal” — they would set up a House-Senate conference to resolve the differences between the two proposals, buying Republicans more time.
The new strategy will allow Republicans to sustain their years-long effort to unwind the 2010 health-care law, though they have yet settle on a replacement for it. But it is also is a tacit acknowledgment that more sweeping efforts to revise or even simply repeal the law cannot succeed, even as Republicans control both Congress and the White House.
They’ll probably pass the motion to begin debate — and hail it as a great victory. Celebrating truly basic shit is what they do now that President Poopy-Star is on the Golden Throne. But as the article above notes, agreeing to debate a face-saving compromise is a far cry from the grandiose promises the pack of lying grifters, including Donald “I’ll Repeal Obamacare on Day One” Trump made to the donor class.
Every day we thwart these greedy, mendacious pricks is a victory — never forget that. Infighting is on the rise, the Purge has begun, and cracks are appearing in the facade. I’m willing to talk to the bored shitheads at Rubio’s office every weekday for the rest of my life to keep that going.
rikyrah
May they burn in hell for what they want to do.
Major Major Major Major
Usually the motion to proceed is the end of the line for things like this, if that passes then the bill will, too. But here, well, I have no idea what to think, given that they aren’t actually really… voting… on a bill?
Yarrow
Posted in previous thread.
I’ve called and they laughed at me.
Trentrunner
Heller a yes.
Portman a yes.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: I saw some post somewhere last night that there have been a few bills that passed MTP but failed on the actual vote. So it has happened.
Nicole
Oh my God. These people.
But thanks for the last paragraph, Betty. It keeps me from wanting to give up.
NotMax
Lemmings voting for which cliff to dive from.
SenyorDave
@Trentrunner: Portman a yes.
Not surprising on Portman, he’s only a “moderate” when it affects his family (like him changing on gay rights after his son came out). Otherwise Portman is only too happy to help sick people die. Hell is too good for people like him, there should be a subbasement hell.
I’ve never actually wished evil on people like I have with the Republicans in Congress. They should all get slow acting debilitating diseases, and die an agonizing death.
Betty Cracker
@Major Major Major Major: I have a feeling they’ll pass some nasty pig of a bill eventually, and it will harm millions of people. But I’m starting to think it won’t be as bad as it could have been, and it’ll consume so much political capital that it will hamstring the party for months. If that’s the best result we can get, I’ll take it.
Yarrow
@SenyorDave: I’m kind of surprised that none of these “moderate” Senators have kids with pre-existing conditions who will be thrown to the wolves once they reach adulthood.
Roger Moore
@Major Major Major Major:
It’s hard to know what will happen with the motion to proceed, given that nobody actually knows what they’re proceeding on. It’s a bizarre and crazy way to do anything.
Yarrow
@Betty Cracker: I’m already preparing the letters that will go to my Republican Senators when I die from lack of health care. I’ll be sure to send copies to news outlets as well.
eemom
You rock, Mrs. Cracker. ?
TenguPhule
Moral Victories are less satisfying then crushing our enemies and seeing their women lament.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
It’s another day ending in Y.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
They exempted themselves and their families from the effects.
This has been known for awhile.
SiubhanDuinne
That Collins-Reed conversation is pretty funny, though.
Separately, sort of — I know Erick Son of Erick is a loathsome person in very many ways, but does he generally have good sources? I mean, he’s not one of those always-wrong-about-everything people, is he? Reason I ask, BooMan linked to this (sorry, Resurgent link) and if Cabinet members actually are saying things like this, even “anonymously” and to a friendly pundit, I think the wheels are already coming off. Present tense, not future, or at least not by more than a few days.
Percysowner
I knew calling Portman was pretty useless, but I did it every week anyway. Called him today and yesterday. At least when this shit passes, I’ll know I did everything I could to stop it.
In other news
Schumer Vows To Prevent Trump From Replacing Sessions Over Recess
Yarrow
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
That’s your unwarranted optimism talking. Like Uncle Owens, don’t listen to it.
Its going to be worse then any of us can predict.
MP
I just don’t think they realize the level of blowback they’re going to get on this. People literally – and rightly – feel that the Rs in Congress are legislating in a way that will directly result in the death of them or those they love. And they’re doing it while they enable a mentally unstable executive who is doing immense harm to our Republic. They are sitting on a powder keg.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule: Their kids can only be exempted until they’re 26. After that they can’t be on mom and dad’s health insurance. Money only takes you so far if you have expensive conditions to treat.
TenguPhule
@rikyrah:
May they burn in the flesh sooner then that.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
As far as I know, none of the lucky duckies has any kids that would be in danger of that personally.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@SenyorDave:
Repeatedly.
geg6
@MP:
I agree.
ETA: I mean, I know people who believe they will have nothing left to lose if this happens. Some of them very close to me.
This is the most evil thing I’ve ever seen. Makes me wish I believed in a hell so I could wish eternal torture on them.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
They’ve exempted themselves, but they can’t protect their children once they’re old enough to be thrown off their parents’ plan and have to find one for themselves.
Yarrow
Interesting.
Edited. Wrong link before.
Trentrunner
Capito is a YES.
TenguPhule
@MP:
That’s because all the armed nuts have been trying to kill the Democrats.
They have little experience with the shoe on the other foot and armed people who aren’t nuts, just very very angry.
catclub
I saw this at TPM:
But hasn’t the parliamentarian already ruled that the mandates are not reconciliation fodder? Nevermind, it was the replacement lockout period that was ruled out there. mandates are enforced by tax penalties
Yutsano
I’m in ten thousand kinds of confused territory right now.
Let’s say MTP passes. Okay. Then they vote on several “somethings” just to get something to conference where they have to vote on it again (conference doesn’t guarantee passage) and they select something that doesn’t meet reconciliation rules? Am I missing something here?
TenguPhule
If they manage to pass this, we should mark today as when the Second American Civil War was truly declared by the Republican party. Because that’s what its going to kick off, inevitably.
Roger Moore
@Percysowner:
Turn about is fair play.
MomSense
@Yarrow:
Let’s all send them our bodies, too. Let them deal with the mess they made.
Yarrow
@MP:
They realize it. That’s why they’re working overtime to take away the ability for Democrats to vote.
TenguPhule
@Yutsano:
They rewrite it in conciliation, fire or ignore the parlimentarian when she makes a ruling, then both House and Senate ram it down our throats. And then all Hell breaks loose.
rikyrah
NEW: Sessions “pissed” about treatment by Trump. Won’t quit. Wants to call his bluff. Via @woodruffbets @swin24 https://t.co/LkH5394Nbd
— Sam Stein (@samstein) July 25, 2017
catclub
@Yutsano: I was wondering about that also. Does Motion to Proceed pre-empt filibuster, so only available for reconciliation bills.
Yarrow
@MomSense: I think that’s illegal. it’s a shame, though. Maybe we could have someone take pictures of our corpses and send those in the mail along with our letters. Or tape the pictures to the doors of their offices?
Yutsano
@catclub: I would think it would require unanimous consent. Maybe that’s what Baby Rand was talking about.
Roger Moore
@SenyorDave:
I would suggest that agonizing deaths that happen in time to block them from passing any more legislation would be more practically useful.
Yarrow
@rikyrah: That’s a nice cover for the real reason he won’t quit. He’s terrified Putin will throw him to the wolves if he quits..
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: Oh stuff it, Eeyore.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
Why would you give them free wanking material?
They’ll fap to the dead bodies. Its who they are.
MP
@Yarrow: I don’t think they can suppress enough votes quickly enough for that to keep them in office. I think, as others have said here, the blowback could well go beyond voting to violence and I think that does no one any good. I hope I’m wrong.
Yutsano
@Roger Moore: I’m just sadistic enough to hope Grandpa Walnuts keels over on the Senate floor before his vote.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker: That’s not a denial.
Roger Moore
@Yarrow:
What are they going to do, throw your moldering corpse in prison?
TenguPhule
@SenyorDave:
Their quick agonizing deaths would be better for the country.
Just saying.
Yarrow
@Roger Moore: Arrest the person delivering it. And no courier service would take the job.
MP
@Roger Moore: If it can turn a profit for the privatized prison system, yes.
TenguPhule
@Quit now: The one upside is that you get to be up against the wall when the Revolution comes.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule: Because it might make the news. At the very least it would freak out some of their staff. I already got one staffer to cry. Good times.
Johnnybuck
@Betty Cracker: seconded!
Percysowner
I admit, I don’t believe in Hell. If I believe in anything, it’s reincarnation. I hope these guys get reborn in the world they are making. Only they need to be poor and the wrong color and have some kind of pre-existing condition from early on. I’m not even asking for a big, nasty pre-existing condition. I’ll take something easy like mild asthma, or acne, or all the males be born female, or have mild skin cancer that never recurs, just enough to screw them for life.
Yarrow
Maybe not completely a done deal?
Roger Moore
@Yarrow:
Lie about what’s in the package.
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
There are easier and more certain ways to do that. Also, if you’re going to risk getting arrested (and yes, they would arrest you for trespassing and/or terroristic threatening) then might as well be hanged for a sheep as well as a lamb.
dr. bloor
@Yarrow: What Cassidy knows is irrelevant. At this point, Tortoise and Cornyn can name all fifty “ayes,” in reverse alphabetical order if you’d like.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule: They wouldn’t arrest me. I’ll be the dead body. It would be asking someone else to take on the risk. I’m not prepared to do that.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Percysowner:
Don’t worry – Turtle will just undo that rule, too.
I’ll not speak of the ugly places where my head is right now.
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: I can’t predict the future, but I do think our push-back on these greedy shithooks has had an effect. You choose to piss all over that and predict doom 24/7, which is your prerogative. Telling you to “stuff it” is mine. FTR, I say “stuff it” as a fellow commenter; it carries no administrative connotations.
Yarrow
Re: Portman being a Yes:
TenguPhule
@Yarrow:
Consider a last dance if it comes to that. Make your death mean something.
The Thin Black Duke
@Betty Cracker: Thank you, Betty.
Major Major Major Major
Wow, fun thread, everybody, well done.
Immanentize
@MomSense: @Roger Moore: @Yarrow:
I like this idea. It’s “As I Lay Dying” for the modern zeitgeist.
Yarrow
@TenguPhule: Please STFU about what I choose to do about my impending death.
dr. bloor
@Major Major Major Major: Eh. Strawberry-Rhubarb on top of Pumpkin and Banana Creme is a little….much.
trollhattan
@rikyrah: IMO no way Sessions quits. Fired? Perhaps, Trump ain’t exactly a loyal bossman. But for Sessions to go from senator to AG to unemployed is too much a blow to do it voluntarily.
Chris Christie is probably all “How do you like me now?”
eric
just so i am clear: this gambit is to go to conference with a MORE conservative chamber to develop a bill that must be passed by the BOTH chambers??? Why would it yield a bill better for the moderates when it has to satisfy the fire breathers in the House? This seems like a recipe for disaster — i would enjoy it if the consequences were not so dire.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
Not pissing all over you, Betty. But you sounded like you’re trying to normalize this. “Not as bad as we think” is exactly the kind of stuck in the rut thinking that helped them DO THIS TO US ALL. You’re not thinking this through at all. There are going to be knock down effects across the whole fucking country and hit the economy in places it is soft and vulnerable. This is not “we can use this in 2018 elections time” this is “Shit is fucked and we are at real risk of civil violence once the insurers start dropping coverage”
Immanentize
@Major Major Major Major: just getting back from that walk and nothing changed.
Major Major Major Major
@Immanentize: Not true, I drew some vampires in between yesterday and today. ETA: and a cat
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@TenguPhule: Tell me Tengu, is life sucks for you this badly and it’s so godman utterly hopeless; why not a razor to you own wrist?
Yarrow
raven
@TenguPhule: You ain’t gonna do shit but run your fucking mouth on a blog.
randy khan
I have never seen anything like this. It’s just bizarre. And it’s not just the process (which would be bizarre enough on its own), but the idea that the Senate would even consider voting on something this unpopular. It’s crazy. (And yes, I get that the vote is in service to doing something else they and the big Republican money folks really want, but still, it’s potentially really damaging to their ability to stay in office, which would seem like the prime directive.)
Jeffro
@Trentrunner: @Trentrunner: so they all fell in line, hmm? I think a post-Labor Day “March for Shame” is looking like a pretty good idea right about now…
TenguPhule
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: I want to live just long enough to see every Republican in power have their heads mounted on spiked pikes.
Johnnybuck
@raven: seconded!
TenguPhule
@raven: I would never admit to anything against the law on a blog, that’s for sure.
JPL
@TenguPhule: That would be quite nice! We have talented photographers who could sent their pictures of the event to Alain.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@TenguPhule: Seriously dumbshit, you can’t be that much of an idiot not to get that if this was say a President Jeb Bush or even a President Ted Cruize this would be truely worse; the repeal would likely be a done deal by now with the press cheering them on as the second Reagan Revolution? I mean the GOP controls all branches of government, all it would take is a president who understand basic politics to get their agenda down now.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Betty Cracker: There’s a rumor that TP loves Pie.
Jeffro
@randy khan:
Here’s a thought that might override the ‘prime directive’ for some of these clowns…a Mercer Minion or Koch Klown visits them and says
And they can do that, too, because of Citizens United and other capitulations to big-donor “Dark Money”.
scav
Pigs participating in the proverbial sausage making process voting blindly for a pig in a poke. What could possibly go wrong?
TenguPhule
@eric:
Yes. So far, that seems to be their plan.
McConnell seems to be counting on base pressure once this abortion of a shitpile passes the Senate, that the complainers will fall in line once its clear they do have a bill, that the political momentum of “winning” will manage to get it across the finish line.
And him and ZEGS both seem to think it will work.
Redshift
@NotMax:
I’d say it’s worse; they’re voting to jump off a cliff without knowing which one.
Mnemosyne
One of my co-workers was a longtime Scoutmaster when his son was younger and was really into Scouting.
He’s very embarrassed today and wishes that Trump had just STFU.
VFX Lurker
@Betty Cracker:
As a blog writer you do not have this luxury, but I pied that loudmouth long ago.
Major Major Major Major
@Redshift: Yeah, they’re gonna pick the cliff later, after they’ve already jumped.
It’s… bizarre.
Dave C
According to Twitter, Johnson and McConnell were just having a heated conversation.
TenguPhule
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: what? I’m trying to unparse what you said and coming up befuddled.
kirbster
Meanwhile, on C-SPAN, I guess the republicans are going to dramatically wheel McCain in on a gurney or in a wheelchair to cast the final vote. But they’ll need Mike Pence to break the tie because Collins and Murkowski both voted no.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dave C: interesting, I’m sure he’ll come around, but he’s IIRC massively rich and was just re-elected, and is said to be none-too-bright. He certainly has little to fear
ETA: Michael Steele says something about respect for McConnell and his position… from everything I’ve read, anonymous gossip but that’s what we tend to have in these situations, McConnell is hated by much if not most of his caucus.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne:
Christ. That’s what they ALL want. They don’t care that he thinks those things. They don’t care that he does horrible things, has violated every norm, is destroying our country’s reputation, is a traitor, is mentally unbalanced. They care nothing about any of that. They just want him to stop talking and tweeting. Stop embarrassing them by saying it all out loud. It’s the number one thing you hear from white people.
Amaranthine RBG
Still time to get on those phones!
Mike J
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Calling for them to “eat lead” at town halls as you did the other day is right up to the line, if not over.
Drumbeat of martial fantasies and cries for death are tiresome and non-productive.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: I agree with your friend.
Major Major Major Major
@kirbster: It’s amazing, it’s really the exact, total opposite of what they did with Ted Kennedy and to a degree Robert Byrd.
Of course, they probably think it’s equally heroic, because they are insane and evil.
EDIT: Couldn’t a senator basically get a free pass for life as a bipartisan mavericky maverick, and probably a presidential nomination out of it whenever the GOP decides to abandon Trumpdom, by switching to a ‘no’ vote here?
TenguPhule
@NotMax:
what? Link please because I sure as hell do not remember saying anything of the sort.
ETA: Closest I’ve managed to find was “pray that at least two Republican Senators drop dead of natural causes before the vote”.
quakerinabasement
The Senate couldn’t come up with a bill that 52 Republicans could agree on.
The House couldn’t come up with a bill that 240 Republicans could agree on.
Obviously, the only solution is get all 292 of ’em to work on it at the same time! Surely, that will work.
Chris
@SenyorDave:
There’s a moment in “The Killer Angels” when Col. Chamberlain, remembering the pre-war days, recounts a story about an argument he had with visitors from the South very soon before the war, where the other man’s views (that black people were not people) enraged him so much that he realized that, if he had to kill him, he would kill him. (Not a realization that makes him entirely pleased with himself).
In my case, that threshold was passed some time ago and actually predates the Trump era. But it’s gotten worse since then. I hear about things like McCain’s brain cancer or a group of Republican politicians being victims of a shooting and I simply could not care less; if anything, I’m vaguely sorry that it doesn’t kill them. And I’m certainly well past the point where my feelings even for most Republicans I’ve known personally for a long time are at the point described above – where if we ever do go for the big round two and I met them under battlefield circumstances, I wouldn’t have the slightest qualms about killing them.
It’s not a pleasant place to be, but I really don’t know how else one can rationally feel about people whose hatred for the rest of us reaches the increasingly unhinged depths that we’ve seen in the last ten years or so.
JPL
@Dave C: He’ll cave.
Yarrow
I hate them all so much.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
That was Goku.
zhena gogolia
@TenguPhule:
See above. It was Goku, as I recall.
Walker
MTP passed. McCain folded as expected.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yarrow: That’s not the point, BSA had to invite Trump and had to let him speak because he’s the Ex Officio President of the BSA. This is one of the norms that you speak of being violated.
Major Major Major Major
@Chris:
I sometimes struggle with the same feelings. (Unlike some people, I don’t revel in them.)
TenguPhule
@zhena gogolia:
Which I’m not.
FFS, I keep telling him every time he asks that no, killing Trump or the GOP donors at this point would not help matters.
FlipYrWhig
@Walker: McCain is a gutless wonder and will be till the end.
TenguPhule
@Walker:
Fuck him.
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
My bad, then. The confusion is perhaps understandable given the tenor of the history.
Mea culpa. But the other point stands.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@NotMax: Yes – I don’t like it when either “side” fantasizes about a civil war. Self-fulfilling prophecies… Our “side” has a history of effective non-violent action. An approach that embraces non-violence is absolutely critical to saving our Democracy. We cannot achieve our aims through civil war.
hueyplong
Not sure which side will write the history, but McCain has chosen this vote as his lasting image.
rikyrah
Jacky Rosen is running to unseat @DeanHeller in NV. Today he broke his word to Nevadans. Show her some love. https://t.co/fmLaYZ12jS
— Donna NoShock (@NoShock) July 25, 2017
mouse tolliver
Dear Democrats,
John McCain just voted to take healtch care away from tens of millions of Americans. You can stop kissing his bitter old ass now.
Baud
@Walker: I don’t think what McCain did was technically a “fold.”
FlipYrWhig
@hueyplong: Yup. John McCain was playing with house money as the maverick man of principle and straight talk, and threw it away to kiss the asses of Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump. Disgraceful display. And everyone in the media who was singing his praises last week should think about their capacities of judgment.
Yutsano
@Baud: Grandpa Walnuts did as he always does: voted with his party. That’s neither surprising nor mavericky.
Yarrow
@?BillinGlendaleCA: It’s not true that they “had to” invite him. There’s no requirement. It’s a “tradition” and a “custom” according to their own response to the outcry against his speech. In any case, I don’t know what my comment had to do with BSA issuing an invitation. I didn’t comment on the issuance or acceptance of said invitation.
As for my comments, Mnem didn’t say that her co-worker who has been involved with the Boy Scouts thinks that any of Trump’s policies or behavior is wrong. Most white people don’t think that. They just want him to stop tweeting. You hear it over and over again. Number one comment from Trump voters, almost all of whom are white, about Trump. They want him to STFU. They don’t say they want him to stop doing anything he’s doing. In fact they like what he’s doing.
rikyrah
@mouse tolliver:
Truth.
Jeffro
@Redshift: @Major Major Major Major: They jumped off the cliff without knowing what awaits them at the bottom…and while they await that ‘sudden stop’, they can and should ponder just who they did it for. And what they did to the Senate, and America as a whole, in the process.
Hey GOP, when there are no more norms left to shatter, nor traditions to break, just remember: wads of $20 bills aren’t much defense against pitchforks.
Chris
@Percysowner:
Funny, my vision of the afterlife, if there is one, is somewhat like that. That whether or not there’s a hell, purgatory should consist of you essentially having to live the fate that you inflicted on everybody you screwed over.
For a serial killer, that’s dying maybe a dozen times – plus all the repercussions for all the people around the persons you killed. For someone like, say, Osama Bin Laden, that’s three thousand experiences of being burned to death, choking on fumes, or falling to your death. But for people like the Republicans in Congress, or their wealthy backers in the private health sector? Literally millions of horrible deaths, or lives with painful untreated symptoms, all from treatable illnesses, and millions more experiences of living in abject poverty because of medical bankruptcies… etc.
NotMax
July 25, 2017. A day that will live in chickensh*t.
Quinerly
I’m as disgusted as I have ever been in my entire life. Ranks up there with election night and the inauguration.
mouse tolliver
@hueyplong: McCain’s legacy is Trump-ism. By picking an ignorant, Twitter-obsessed reality TV star as his running mate, he set us down that path. We have a president Trump right now because Sarah Palin showed him how to do it.
Jeffro
@hueyplong: It’ll be worth a side trip to make a restroom break next time I’m passing through Arizona. It seems the least I could do…
TenguPhule
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
I’ll happily accept a workable peaceful solution to restoring our Democracy and rule of law. Problem is, all of them run into the same basic problem. Republicans are refusing to honor any rules or laws.
We can’t have a functioning system until that changes. And they have no intention of changing.
Baud
@NotMax: Not really. The infamous date will be the date of final passage. Still a ways to go.
TriassicSands
@Yarrow:
Healthcare? Yarrow, you don’t need no steenking healthcare. Don’t you know that people on Medicaid are worse off than if they didn’t have insurance at all? And Medicare? That’s just one big death panel. The VA? Communism.
Besides, no matter what is wrong with you or me, we can just go to the ER and get free five-star healthcare. Why just the other day I was trying to decide between going to the ER for a heart-lung transplant or chemotherapy.
These people are vile. And they’re incredibly stupid. Their plan will end up costing more, not less, and cause millions to suffer needlessly. Some will die. But I guess Ayn Rand might approve. Though, if the GOP kills off all the workers, I’m not sure who is going to do all the work for the John Galt’s of the world.
Yarrow
@Baud: 20 hours, right?
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: don’t forget all the war deaths.
TenguPhule
@TriassicSands:
With Republicans and their base, its a feature, not a bug.
They want other people to suffer.
NotMax
@Baud
Which is why purposely eschewed using the word infamy.
*sigh*
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
Pretty much. Their approach so far has been that it’s more important to pass something than exactly what that thing is. They know they can rewrite the whole thing once it gets to conference. At that point, they’ll just need to get through one vote in each House to get it to Trump. Being that close will let them bring enormous pressure to bear on hold-outs, who won’t want to be the one vote that keeps them from victory. They just need to get by each procedural hurdle in turn, by means fair or (more often) foul. It’s a completely cynical approach to legislating, but that should come as a surprise to absolutely nobody.
Baud
@Yarrow:
Process
https://thinkprogress.org/breaking-the-senate-will-begin-debate-on-the-republican-health-care-bill-9ef1b743a02
Yutsano
This vote was about one thing.
ONE. THING.
Keeping their voters in line. Because now they can say they at least voted to repeal.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
As cynical and disgusted and rage filled as I feel, I have a strong feeling that there’s such an enormous amount of bad juju surrounding these lying traitors that they’ve invited some form of balancing retribution to come steamrolling their way. May it be soon.
JPL
@TenguPhule: That’s true. The neighbor I have with the dead tree is concerned about the others getting free health care.
germy
WaPo
Yarrow
@TriassicSands: Robots. People are expensive.
Baud
@germy: It technically puts them closer.
NotMax
Dolt 45 will be miffed when someone points out to him the motion to proceed does not require his signature.
Greenergood
So what do we do now? I’m on the other side of the Pond and have been phoning – but need guidance about where/who/what to do next. As far as I can tell, this is the beginning of the end, but not the end – is there any way out still? And if yes, what to do?
jl
I hear in the news that all the moderate GOPer Senators are caving for the vote to proceed, apparently in hopes that McConnell offers a mini-skini-very-partial repeal that eliminates mandates and medical equipment taxes, so it will have to go to conference. Then the supposedly reasonable and thoughtful GOP moderates, really abject cowardly hacks with no principles or public purpose whatever, can spend a few more weeks hiding and hoping that no one notices them.
At this point, just call them to make their miserable political lives as miserable as possible. They more than deserve it.
But amazing to me that that these vile punks can vote to proceed on a bill, and apparently, no one but McConnell knows exactly what it is going to be.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yarrow: I want him to STFU, I didn’t vote for him, I voted for the kindly grandma with the email server. The BSA had to invite him, it’s like having a shareholder meeting and not inviting the CEO.
Chris
@mouse tolliver:
Good Lord, so much this.
Baud
@Greenergood: Lots of ways out. Not over yet.
NotMax
@Yutsano
Contract on America.
MomSense
John McCain, some fucking maverick you turned out to be.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@the Conster, la Citoyenne: Is it too early to start pissing on McCain’s grave? (starts chugging a tall glass of water)
TriassicSands
@Quinerly:
To me, it’s much worse. The other two dates/events were real but the damage was all potential. Now, we’re getting down to doing the true work of the Republican Party, which is to hurt most people, and reward the wealthy.
On election night and inauguration day there was still a chance Trump could die before he did any real damage. Either that or the possibility that his gross violations of the Emoluments Clause might cause some Republicans to respond. But that was just unrealistic hope; now we’re dealing with real life and we’ve seen that just as Trump can always be more disgusting than he was the day before and more incompetent, the Republicans can always be more spineless and corrupt. The concepts of Peak Trump or Peak Wingnut (aka Peak GOP) are meaningless. We might as well try counting to infinity.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@TenguPhule:
“Moderate” conservatives ALWAYS line up behind hard-liners, because libruls and colored and crossbacks and Hispanics and sluts and jews and asians and homos and fairies and dykes and muslins.
But they’re totally not racist or anything.
Ohio Mom
@Yarrow: Jealous. I would love to make one of those swarmy interns cry.
Hoodie
There may be a silver lining in that the skinny repeal they’re headed for is a last ditch option and indicates that agreement on a replacement is nowhere to be found. McConnell desperately wants to punt this to conference, on a vague hope that will somehow produce consensus or will at least buy time. They’re scared shitless about failing to do anything after 7 years of empty promises and symbolic votes. Maybe they hope the opposition will give up from fatigue, but the real problem is that there is no way around the fact that they want millions to go uninsured to allow for a big tax cut for billionaires. I still can’t see it making it to Trump’s desk.
Yutsano
@Baud: I wonder if Schumer et al have gamed out how to make this get pushed beyond September 30th.
Baud
@Hoodie: They also haven’t overruled the parliamentarian yet.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Thanks for being a voice of reason and optimism, Mahatma Baud!
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Mnemosyne:
Speaking as a former scout, the organization as constituted needs to end. Necessary leadership and critical thinking skills are not being imparted to the extent that they should be.
Baud
@Yutsano: He’s smart, but there’s a limit to what he can do in the minority.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@jl: I’m not sure the Turtle knows what it’s going to be.
TriassicSands
And 51-50 the GOP votes to proceed.
Chris
@Major Major Major Major:
Oh, sure. That was just for this particular field. You’d also have to list their various other economic crimes, plus things like police violence and murder against blacks, plus the lives of every family destroyed by ICE, plus the lives of every gay person who lived in poverty his entire life because of all the protection for discrimination they installed… Yeah, it’d be one long, long session in purgatory.
TriassicSands
Collins and Murkowski are the only two “no” votes.
Heroic Senator John McCain climbs off his death bed to vote to bring others into bed with him. You’re a real American hero, John.
Walker
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
When I was a scout in the 80s, my troop had to pretend that we were not scouts to get hiking/camping permits. Scouts were notorious for destroying the environment, so many wilderness areas would not allow them permits.
Yarrow
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I did not say one word about whether or not they invited him. You brought it up. I commented on Mnem’s comment, this one:
Nothing in her comment or my comment about whether or not they should have invited him. Why are you bringing that up in response to my comment?
Major Major Major Major
Who were the no’s? Those two ‘disgusting women’?
jl
@Greenergood: At this point I am just contacting them every a week or so to remind my Dem Senators that they need to be in the news raising hell about this unethical tragic farce of an excuse for running a country.
As for GOP moderates, there is no point in calling in hopes of convincing them of doing the right thing, or really, anything at all. They are all the most miserable mindless cowardly hacks one can imagine. They make a crooked avaricious county sup or city councilman from the 1880s look like fricking Washington/Lincoln/DFR rolled in one. At least those ward heelers got their supporters a bunk in a flophouse or some make work job when they were down on hard times.
So, just call for the fun of it, to express your opinion on their mind boggling malfeasance, their dishonesty, their cowardice, in even participating in what has become a disgrace to self-government, and representative democracy.
Edit: A GOP moderate can’t be persuaded to do the right thing, or the wrong thing, or anything. They just want to get lost in the herd, or if that is not possible, find the nearest hole to hunker down in so they don’t get noticed. Then win their seat again by lying to their constituents at election time that they are responsible, thoughtful, GOP moderates who will moderate.
Calling them in expectation of getting them to make up their minds about anything will lead to disappointment. So, call to politely express yourself, or inform them that one constituent won’f fall for their BS anymore.
Yutsano
@Baud: True. I just want Grandpa Walnuts to not survive this. I want these votes to be the ones that kill him. I’ll take whatever dogshit Ducey puts in his place until 2018.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: धन्यवाद
Omnes Omnibus
@Dave C: When I do get through to live person in Johnson’s office, the person always emphasizes that this be done in open. He may well be pissed off about the pig in a poke thing. Today, I left a message saying that if he voted for the pig in a poke it would make it obvious that this is all about tax cuts at the expense of rural Wisconsin. I emphasized rural because he couldn’t give a fuck about Medicaid recipients in the cities.
TriassicSands
@Yarrow:
Expensive and expendable. Except of course the “job creators.”
I suppose the GOP will pass legislation allowing robots to vote, but only if they are “born” in the USA.
Roger Moore
@mouse tolliver:
I think that’s giving him too much of the guilt. The Republican Party was in a place where Sarah Palin was considered an acceptable, even brilliant, choice for VP, and Maverick McMaverickface didn’t take them there by himself.
NotMax
@TriassicSands
So much for Pence’s “Christian” bona fides.
Deader than General Franco.
germy
The dog who caught the car is now driving it full speed into a crowded shopping mall.
Chris
@Roger Moore:
Yep. That’s the problem, and why I really hoped it wouldn’t get out of the House in the first place: every additional milestone it passes is that much more pressure to bring on the moderates that they have to pass it, because we’re so close!
Jeffro
.
Tinare
Fuck McCain. I don’t care if it makes me an awful person, but I hope his death is slow and agonizingly painful. Asshole.
TriassicSands
@Major Major Major Major:
Yep. Those two disgusting women.
Major Major Major Major
Thank god we didn’t elect that mean lady who was once careless with her email settings.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yarrow: Good God, you know Mnemo’s in CA, right? There’s a better than 60-40 chance that her friend voted for the kindly grandma.
ETA:
I can read.
Yarrow
@Ohio Mom: I got one at a local office and kept after him–“Do you have any family members who have had cancer? Do you know anyone who has had heart disease? How would you feel if they didn’t qualify for health insurance and suffered great pain, bankrupted their family and died when they could have been treated? Are you okay with doing that to your friends and family? Is that what you want for them? Do you know that that’s what you’re doing to me? Do you want me to go bankrupt and die? Is that what you are working for?” Kept at it hard.
Baud
@Major Major Major Major: Think of the Clinton Fatigue!
bemused
@TenguPhule:
What type of health care insurance will they have if they get voted out of office? A lot of senators are quite wealthy, representatives less so and I believe Donna Edwards, iirc, was diagnosed with a serious illness after she was no longer in office, was on Cobra (?) and definitely needs ACA.
schrodingers_cat
TBH, the train left the station the day after the election was over.
TriassicSands
@NotMax:
Well, there’s the old Christian Jesus, now passe, and the new Christian Jesus, the one with the MBA, who preaches using Atlas Shrugged as his bible.
Percysowner
@Greenergood: Since you are on the other side of the Pond, I have no suggestions. For those of us on THIS side of thePond Our Lives Are On The Line is holding a series of rallies across the country this Saturday. See if you can make it to one near you. It probably won’t do much, but all we can do is keep on fighting.
TriassicSands
@Yarrow:
Answer: “Yeah, that would be OK.”
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: As long as Susan Sarandon is happy…
Mnemosyne
@Yutsano:
I’ve been hoping that since last night.
Getting cancer was not his fault. Deciding to fly against doctor’s orders is all on him, with all the consequences that brings.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: That’s what I value most in life.
germy
@Tinare:
Nah. I’d rather he got a “Your claim has been denied” letter from Blue Cross and a seven-figure bill from the hospital, anesthesiologist and surgeon. At the same time he learns his wife’s assets have been frozen.
NotMax
@TriassicSands
And wears Rambo-esque bandoliers, no doubt.
ArchTeryx
@Major Major Major Major: Says the man not about to lose lifesaving care.
Mnemosyne
@Yarrow:
If it’s your ashes or a preserved body part, the courier service would have no idea what it was.
Your friend or relative who sent it could get in trouble, though. Make sure they have a good lawyer before you make any decisions.
TenguPhule
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Shareholder meetings could be much improved this way.
Tinare
@germy: ?
Yarrow
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I personally know white people in California who not only voted for Trump but were so thrilled he was elected they sent out a letter about how great it was that he was elected so our country could finally get back on track.
I have no idea who this co-worker of Mnem’s is. Maybe they’re white, maybe not. The response of “I wish he would just STFU” is the response white Trump voters give when the subject of Trump comes up. “I wish he would stop tweeting” is the most common thing. They want him to stop being so obvious about what he’s doing. The actual doing of it is fine. Just stop talking about it.
jl
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
” I’m not sure the Turtle knows what it’s going to be. ‘
Yeah, there is nothing really there at this point in terms of any plan at all.
Yee Gads! It’s McTurtles all the way down!
No sign that the House reactionaries are in a mood to compromise. They do seem to hold true to the principle of doing as much damage as possible. And few or the more honest Senate reactionaries (as opposed to scummy and slimy operators like Cruze and Paul) feel the same way. So, I am not sure what kicking the problem to conference will do except create more pointless infighting.
Something with the same problems as now will come back to McConnell, and then we will see if Congress is caught in an infinite loop.
If they do go for a mini-skinny repeal, then at least it buys us a few weeks more time. Maybe allow people to rest up before they have to start calling again.
TenguPhule
@Baud:
Yet.
Always a yet.
Major Major Major Major
@ArchTeryx: neither are you, mister employed.
Way to pick on one snarky comment out of my entire corpus of largely giving a shit.
lollipopguild
@germy: At this point I am seeing the scene from The Blues Brothers were they drive into the mall with the cops chasing them.
TriassicSands
@germy:
That won’t happen. McCain’s net worth is estimated at $21 million. His wife’s is $100 million or more. McCain doesn’t need his wife or heath care to get the best treatment.
(McCain’s daughter, Meghan, has an estimated net worth of $4 million.)
Mnemosyne
@Major Major Major Major:
If you have a bad — or at least very very naughty — cat character coming up, feel free to name him Keaton. I’m still pretty annoyed about last night’s pooping incident.
chris
@Major Major Major Major: I really like the cat and the birb.
JKFJS
@TriassicSands: If you want to get technical, the damage is still only in “potential” phase with this vote. They still have to pass a final bill, which seems more likely to happen than it did yesterday, but is still not a guaranteed outcome.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yarrow: Ya know, you’re making a shit ton of assumptions here.
Elizabelle
@Yutsano: I’d be good with Walnuts McStroking out.
trollhattan
So Mike Pence finally fulfills his lifelong dream of meaningfully damaging the nation. Tug job from mother tonight, Mikie?
Major Major Major Major
@Mnemosyne: @chris: I’ll confess I have mild-to-moderate concern that people will just tune in for the pets.
germy
@TriassicSands:
I know it won’t happen. His personal wealth is astronomical. It was just a nice thought experiment, as realistic as him “burning in hell for eternity” since I don’t believe in an afterlife.
I just wish he could experience the raw panic that hits someone when they’re uninsured and hit with a massive hospital bill.
germy
@trollhattan: With white gloves.
zhena gogolia
@Chris:
right on!
TenguPhule
@jl:
They will use this as a chance to claim “newer, shiner, better, only kicks off 20 million instead of 32 million*”
*Pay no attention to what happens after the year 4 provisions kick in.
Immediate effects bad, phased in effects much much worse. But “fake news” because they happen later so the Republicans will lie their asses off and be believed because they won’t happen “now” which proves the Democrats are lying about the sky is falling.
/I sometimes hate myself for being able to see things from their side of view so easily.
TriassicSands
@NotMax:
Yes, and rest assured, the 2nd Amendment is a frequent sermon topic. “The Need to Arm Oneself Against the Parasitic Poor.”
Mnemosyne
@Jeffro:
I’ll tell you something else I bet the Koch and Mercers have promised: a fiery “Green Party” candidate to split the vote from the left.
And, sadly, it has a good chance of working since the Bros are primed to drag the Democrats down in 2018.
hueyplong
1. Collins has rehabilitated herself to some extent. She was a No before it was known that her vote could be spared.
2. I wonder if Johnson’s “animated” conversation with McConnell was because he thought he had been promised the second free No due to some Alaskan bribe.
3. Let’s hope they turn on themselves when the real bill comes up. They barely scraped 50 on a hypothetical call+out of the Negro.
4. Today is a bad day. It is not the last day.
Major Major Major Major
@TriassicSands: I was watching an Elementary episode last night about wealthy doomsday preppers, and one of the scenarios they worry about that Johnny Lee Miller rattled off was “socialist zombies rising from the dead to eat their guns.” I had to pause and crack up.
rikyrah
.@SenJohnMcCain:
Ripped healthcare from millions, including veterans ✔️
Opposed GI Bill ✔️
Wants to privatize our VA ✔️
Some legacy, “sir.”
— VoteVets (@votevets) July 25, 2017
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: Ashes are useless. They’ll get held up in the mail center as possible dangerous substance. Shipping my body would put others in danger and that’s not worth it.
TenguPhule
@bemused:
Platinum, once they’re picked up by Wingnut welfare. Those thinktanks have a vested interest in keeping their former-senators alive and speaking nonsense.
ArchTeryx
@ArchTeryx: I’m not the one making snarky asides in front of the newly commissioned Acktion T4 clinics. I’m as furious as I was when my own life was on the line. Some things are simply beyond snark. This is one of them.
Seth Owen
@Chris: I’ve been fighting a losing battle against those feelings myself. I’ve reached the stage of avoiding some people because it’s the only way I can preserve some of my positive feelings for them. If I’m present with them I fear I’d be forced to confront them rather unpleasantly.
rikyrah
Today’s vote is preliminary.
Thousands of lives can be saved if every “yes” vote has the worst night of their life tonight.
(202) 224-3121
— Ian Millhiser (@imillhiser) July 25, 2017
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
No way. Missionary only!
Mnemosyne
@Yarrow:
We’re in Southern California, so he hates Trump. But he’s still in the camp that thinks the Bros have a point about the Democrats sucking too. Argh.
rikyrah
With very few exceptions, the Republican Congress isn’t a party, it’s a cult. Nothing will change until they’re voted out of office.
— Jon Favreau (@jonfavs) July 25, 2017
TriassicSands
@Major Major Major Major:
So, socialist zombies crave AK-47s and Glocks rather than brains. With salsa, I’ll bet.
Hmm. Interesting twist on the Zombie Apocalypse.
Yarrow
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Not about white people who voted for Trump. And the majority of white people voted for him.
goblue72
@TenguPhule: Of course its going to be worse. These tools were hired by their millionaire and billionaire paymasters to go to Congress and NOT destroy Obamacare. They are going to destroy Obamacare. And if they sneak in a way to Trojan horse a time bomb for destroying Medicaid and Medicare, they will do that to.
AND they are going to deliver tax cuts for the rich and corporate America as well. Because that is what they are being PAID to do.
And the Democrats can’t do anything to stop it because they’ve spent the last 20 years trying to be the “Nice Polite Republican” party while whoring themselves out to Wall Street, thinking that was somehow a winning strategy.
Wall Street Chuck and an filfthy rich lady from San Francisco are your party leaders. Just chew on that and try convincing anyone outside the Democratic party circle jerk that there isn’t a big problem.
But hey – I know what will fix this. More hearings about Russia and some tax credits.
Chris
@Yarrow:
If he doesn’t talk about it, it’s easier for them to tell themselves lies about what good patriots who want the best for everyone the people they voted for (and all the other voters around them) are.
This is in no small part why they despise the media, academia, and activists as much as they do: because they’re the parts of society that’re most likely to shine a light on all of the ugly things that they ignore, tolerate, or even support. Even when there’s no risk at all that something’ll actually be done about them, the mere fact of having that stuff brought up, when they’d rather it be buried for the sake of their self-image, enrages them. Only now it’s not even reporters or teachers or protesters: Trump is cutting out the middleman. No wonder they want him to shut up: every time he opens his mouth, he reminds them who they really are and what they’ve chosen to support.
Mnemosyne
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
The guy at work wishes he had been there with the giant water cannon he used to use when his pack members got a little obstreperous during a campout.
TenguPhule
@goblue72:
And Vlad is yours.
Overall, I prefer my side to yours.
At least all of my enemies will be in front of me.
TriassicSands
@germy:
Sometimes, dreams are all that are left.
I’d like to see the statistics on the average net worth today of each of the Navy pilots who served with McCain.
McCain may feel his time as a POW excuses everything else for the rest of his life. I lost all respect for the man many years ago.
bemused
@randy khan:
That puzzles the heck out of me too. It’s like they are addicted to gambling, betting everything on benefits or wins for themselves and they badly want those tax cuts to the wealthy with bonus of stealing the money from the 99% of us. Huge risk to legislators staying in office and to the entire Republican party. Republican voters never seem to believe their party would actually take SS and Medicare away from them either.
Michael Gerson recently wrote oped “An Administration Without Conscience” saying “A faith that makes losing a sin will make cheating a sacrament.”
germy
@goblue72:
What are Jill Stein’s and Bernie Sanders combined assets? Are they working class, living paycheck to paycheck?
jl
One thing people can do is contact Trump and say that you really support his purge of all lousy loser low energy cabinet secretaries, like the vile traitor Sessions.
If Trump get rid of a enough Senate confirmed staff, then they’ll be tied up with confirmation hearings for replacements.
I guess best way to contact Trump is to open a twitter account and make sure your tweets sound nasty and insane.
Major Major Major Major
@TriassicSands: the funny thing is he wouldn’t have even been flying that plane if his daddy wasn’t an admiral. He would’ve been grounded for his record.
NotMax
@goblue72
Oh, look what crawled in.
Purity ponies are as full of horsesh*t as any other equine.
TenguPhule
@bemused:
They have never really suffered the consequences of their own actions before. It has been and always will be someone else’s fault.
TenguPhule
@NotMax: On this we can agree.
/I’m actually trying to not be a raging asshole, but I’m feeling really fucking bitter today. Being sober isn’t helping.
goblue72
@Yarrow: Would love to hear how you got the staffer to cry.
matryoshka
They see it as a natural consequence of the bad choice of being or becoming poor.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: They’ve done it. I guess we’ll have to see if they can come up with a viable bill. Doubt it.
They can come up with a fantastic tax cut for their rich buddies but not an actual healthcare bill for the masses.
Mike in NC
Anybody needing to refresh their memories about who John S. McCain III really is should go to the Rolling Stone archives and search for the article from 2008 entitled “Make Believe Maverick”.
Omnes Omnibus
I just got off the phone Johnson’s officea again. I used words like angry, disgusted, lies, and betrayal. I also called Baldwin’s office to say thank you and keep fighting.
Bess
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
But that still leaves him stinking up the blog and making the rest of us look like we might advocate violence, largely for the sake of violence it seems.
Jeffro
@Mnemosyne:
That’s actually a two-pronged assault (Bros for Wilmer and Greens for Jill 2.0) and you’re right. Really big picture, we have to get the unlimited dark-money donations OUT.
goblue72
@TenguPhule: I’m not a Republican. Just an eyes wide open Democrat. If you think there isn’t some serious long term rot in the Democratic Party, then you haven’t been paying attention to the last 20 years of election returns.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: Heh, I wish I’d been with one as well.
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Apologies for the misattribution earlier.
jl
@Patricia Kayden: Last I heard on the news, no viable bill. McConnell’s reported kluge, in lieu of an actual bill, is to pass some rinky-dink BS that can get 50 votes and punt the whole problem to conference.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Yarrow:
Not around here.
Mnemosyne
@Yarrow:
That’s why you ship them to the local office, not the D.C. office.
Major Major Major Major
@jl: Yeah, if they had a viable bill they would’ve voted on it.
Still…
schrodingers_cat
All the tire swing kids in the MSM can go fuck themselves now. Last week they were singing paeans to Saint John of Arizona.
Another Scott
@jl: Lots of people are talking about a Conference, but a few weeks ago we were worried that that wasn’t going to happen.
What’s to keep the House from simply passing whatever the Senate does, the same day, everyone in the Teabagger Party declaring victory, then Donnie signing it with a giant pep rally?
IOW, what’s different now than a few weeks ago when it comes to doing a Conference?
:-(
We’ve got to keep fighting Now – we can’t assume that we’ve got a few weeks to stop this thing.
Cheers,
Scott.
TenguPhule
@Bess: Did you mistake me for GOKU too?
ruckus
@SenyorDave:
Careful now, I posted not that long ago wishing the same and got crucified for it. Maybe it’s OK now that we’re closer to being fucked.
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
Your hero Bernie just bought his third home. A nice lakefront mansion. But, please, tell us about how poor and humble he is while we wonder why he was afraid to show us his tax returns.
Major Major Major Major
@Another Scott:
The staggering egos of legislators, mostly. Which may not be enough.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Bess: True.
bemused
@Yarrow:
That made me smile. Maybe that makes me a bad person but the interns should get hammered with reality.
TriassicSands
@Yarrow:
There are no guarantees is the POS health care system we have, but just as it is absurdly complicated and inefficient, there are many possibilities for care that are not initially obvious.
You’re smart enough and well-enough informed that no matter what happens with Trumpcare you may be able to find and finance the care you need. I don’t know what your health problems are, but there are countless foundations and other organizations that offer support. One (or more) might be good for you. There are sometimes obscure government programs that can help. What you can’t do is give in to despair.
I’ve been fighting this ridiculous system for years and I’ve always found a way, up until now, anyway, to get and pay for what I need. Pride isn’t an ally, but perseverance is mandatory. That’s difficult when you’re sick, so it’s a good idea if you can enlist the aid of other smart, connected people to help if and when it seems like too much.
And there are always crowd-funding sources.
catclub
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I read excepts of his speech. I was disgusted by his having yet another campaign rally speech when he should be representing the entire nation.
TenguPhule
@NotMax: Apology Accepted. I know I come off as an asshole at times, but I have been counseling against starting the violence. It wouldn’t help.
But for the life of me I do not see a lawful way out of this mess.
Every single peaceful solution runs into the same basic problem.
Republicans will not honor the rule of law.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne:
like Donald Trump.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: His hero has a dacha and is made of billions of bucks.
Chris
@Major Major Major Major:
I watched “10 Cloverfield Lane” recently, which I thought made a nice take on the survivalist types. It’s a movie in which a survivalist loony’s craziest fantasies turn out to be true…
… and yet this doesn’t vindicate the survivalist and prove that he’s a wise man that we should all have listened to. Instead, the movie’s vibe is that if paranoid reactionary antisocial control freaks are one day proven right to think that aliens are coming to kill us all… they will still be paranoid reactionary antisocial control freaks. And sticking with them isn’t going to be much safer for you in the long run than taking your chances with the aliens.
Walker
@Mnemosyne:
Burlington College knows why.
FlipYrWhig
@goblue72: Oh, so this time it’s the radical street-fighter self who hates everything wealthy, rather than the middle-aged “the view from my office is nicer than yours” self who brags about his success. Seems like it just kinda whips back and forth at random.
? Martin
@?BillinGlendaleCA: But just barely. Clinton won the white vote 50% to 47%. Clinton won by 3 million votes here and whites contributed effectively nothing to that margin.
Trump won white men, protestants, and non-college educated whites. I’ll leave it to the audience to label that group.
TenguPhule
@goblue72:
Who doesn’t care that Russia now owns the Republican party.
Nyet, Comrade. Your alibi doesn’t check out.
jl
@Another Scott:
” We’ve got to keep fighting Now – we can’t assume that we’ve got a few weeks to stop this thing. ”
You are correct. Sorry for typing dumb stuff based on one news report. When I typed my comment I’d just read a news item that McConnell had decided to offer a bill designed to force things to conference. But after the vote, McConnell indicated they are going on with their plan to have a votarama on all the plans that have been put down on paper, from the House bill itself, to repeal w/o replace, and a couple of versions of the Senate bill that couldn’t get the votes before.
No rest for the wicked. People still need to call.
Edit: I guess the skinny-mini is now a back-up if McConnell can’t ram anything else through.
Major Major Major Major
@Chris: Well that sounds like a good watch, maybe I’ll have to check it out.
FlipYrWhig
@TenguPhule: “Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi have too much privilege. Also, I talk to people who talk to Jerry Brown and you don’t.”
Xenos
Coffin for Head of State
Chris
@Mike in NC:
There’s a hard-left blogger I like to read who back in 2008 wrote about how much “reaching across the aisle” crap irritated him, and he had one paragraph on John McCain in particular that’s really come back to mind for me in the last couple of weeks:
And the nice things they’re saying aren’t even true! John Sidney McCain III is a terrible human being. He is a juvenile delinquent who became a senile delinquent. He spent his school years picking fights and his time at the naval academy racking up hundreds of demerits. His record didn’t merit a career as an officer, but as the son and grandson of admirals, he rode a wave of nepotism into the cockpit of several planes, and crashed them. Then it was off to Vietnam to drop napalm on children. In short order his plane was shot down, and he was captured. He then heroically… failed to die? Came home, cheated on his wife, married an heiress, got elected to Congress and immediately got involved in a corruption scandal, told nasty jokes about the then teenaged Chelsea Clinton’s appearance and about women being raped by apes (though I suppose that’s still better than Sarah Palin charging raped women for forensic kits)… ran for president and got smeared by Bush, then embraced both Bush and his tactics, running a smear campaign against Obama.
When the bastard finally croaks, I think that paragraph should be his obituary.
TriassicSands
@goblue72:
I’m confused. Are you saying that an electorate stupid enough to put Trump in the White House is actually smart enough to make a responsible assessment of the Democratic Party? Gosh, kids, Zippy is so confused.
catclub
@Chris:
John Goodman is a great actor.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
We’ll never advance progressive politics with rich people in leadership positions! FDR, LBJ and Teddy Kennedy order another round of heavenly cocktails to toast how fucking stupid Dwight is.
@FlipYrWhig: Don’t forget Dwight is also a gentrifier in an un-and-coming San Francisco neighborhood who is totally down with the local homeless community because he tips them off when the fuzz is coming. Or something.
ETA: Besides calling again, a big old money bomb for Jacky Rosen would be a great way to tell Heller et al to eat shit.
ruckus
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
I have it on good authority that he’s standing at the front door of the bakery as we I type, just pushing the door open.
Chris
@catclub:
I love the guy. Though I don’t think he’ll ever top his role in The Big Lebowski in my eyes.
Major Major Major Major
@ruckus: Wouldn’t be so bad if he didn’t end up being 20-25% of the threads.
NotMax
@goblue72
Eyes wide open precludes neither mirages nor hallucinations.
Mnemosyne
@goblue72:
You wanted anyone but Hillary to be president, and you got exactly what you wanted.
You chose this. Stop your fucking whining about how it’s not what you expected to get when you made your choice.
You chose not to wholeheartedly support Hillary and the Democrats, and this is the result of your choice. Roll in it.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@catclub: I concur.
FlipYrWhig
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: As usual the line between outrageous capitalist pig and righteous man of the people turns out to be riiiiight on the other side of wherever he’s sitting.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@? Martin: That’s for the state as a whole, we’re talking LA County.
germy
Raven Onthill
If they can pass this incredibly unpopular ill that will kill American citizens, they can pass anything. The fascists are in charge.
I think the GOP “moderates” are going to regret this for a long, long time.
geg6
@NotMax:
He’s not a purity pony. He’s a Russian. Or paid by them. Same thing.
geg6
@goblue72:
You are a puppet for the scum in the White House and in Russia. Whether they pay you or not, you’re their puppet.
brendancalling
every time I call, which is often, I remind the poor intern working the phone that this means their grandparents lose their Medicaid, that their parents’ costs go up, and that they’ll get kicked off their parents insurance.
Looks lie more angry calls this week.
Chris
@Raven Onthill:
There are no moderates anymore.
bemused
@brendancalling:
Any reaction from the interns or do they stay silent?
ruckus
@rikyrah:
This is absolutely true. It stopped being a political party decades ago. It is a cult. It is bigger than scientology, and worse. Scientology is only trying to capture you, republicans are trying to kill you.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@NotMax:
When I said that, I said I hope, if the bill passes and millions lose life-saving care, those GOP pols get shot to death. It’s fucking evil what they’re doing; all of it for more money and power. I’m not sorry for saying it and I know it wouldn’t solve anything, and would likely make things worse, but I’m beyond caring. I just want them to suffer and feel such crushing fear before they die, the same they’ve condemned millions around the globe over the years to feel
Chris
@ruckus:
Although I’d change that from “the Republican Congress” to “the Republican Party.” Whoever Republicans vote in next will be pretty much the same.
TenguPhule
@ruckus: And yet I still respect you enough to acknowledge your point of view and not immediately dismiss it as self righteous pie.
ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
True. It is getting a bit old.
ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
You are being too nice, are you feeling OK?
patrick II
It is embarrassing to feel compelled to say something as basic at this — but men do not survive as individuals. From the earliest days of tribes moving towards small agricultural communities to large civilization the progress of mankind walks hand-in-hand with his ability to have the necessary sense of community to survive. This Senate vote is more than about healthcare. It is vote about whether we can act together as a national community to accomplish the first and primary of the Declaration of Independence’s asserted creator’s endowments – – the right to Life. And make no mistake about it; when we take away health insurance from over twenty million people we will be taking the life of tens of thousands of them. And thus failing in the mast basic way to live up to the proposition our nation was founded on and to which we must all agree if we are to succeed as a principled democratic nation at all.
ruckus
@TenguPhule:
Whatever dude. Your stick is past it’s due date.
Iowa Old Lady
Even if the Rs leave Medicare intact, old folks will feel this if they cut Medicaid. Hospitals and nursing homes will be in trouble.
TenguPhule
@ruckus: Tell me where I’m wrong. I’ll debate you and if you can prove your point I will apologize and acknowledge it. I’d like to expect the same from others. A lot of times it seems others are hearing something other then what I’m saying and assigning motives to me that I don’t actually have.
Its rather annoying and frustrating, actually.
The Truffle
@patrick II: At this point, the “national community” is breaking apart. I could see some sort of dissolution where coastal blue states break off and go our own way, and extend an offer to any red staters who want to join in. And you know what? That might be the only way to stave off something truly catastrophic.
I could see people seriously talking about an amicable split. The partisanship has damaged this country–perhaps beyond repair. And maybe everyone will be happier in the long run.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@The Truffle:
Look at a map of voting patterns by county in blue states. Remember Unionists in Confederate states wreaking havoc behind enemy lines?
TenguPhule
@The Truffle:
The Republicans are the abusive boyfriend/spouse. They would rather see us dead then free.
geg6
@The Truffle:
I don’t know that would happen without massive bloodshed, but I know I don’t want to live in the same country as these subhumans. I want nothing to do with any of them ever again.
geg6
Comment was disappeareded. Wah! Even when I want to let off steam, I get stonewalled.
sunny raines
why does the US have a “donor class” so callous that they want those most in need among us to suffer. (rhetorical)
Chris
@The Truffle:
I don’t see that happening. The red staters would never agree to partition.
Ideologically, they don’t just think they’re some separate society that needs to go its own way like the Confederacy – they think they are Real America, and all the rest of us are just unwanted interlopers who don’t belong here. Letting us go with half the country, their country to which we don’t really have any right in the first place, would be tantamount to letting us steal from them, in their eyes.
Pragmatically, the only reason they’re even as sustainable as they are is large wealth transfers from blue counties. Been that way since the New Deal at least. If they let us go, they’d sink to Venezuelan levels of poverty and dysfunction in a matter of a few years, and enough of them know it, even if they’d never admit it to them in those terms, that they’d never let us go.
NotMax
@Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe)
All I shall offer, then, is that you seek professional help. Seriously.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule:
It’s a truism in professional communication fields that if most consumers are misunderstanding what you’re saying, it’s your fault.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@NotMax:
I was just saying it to be defiant. I was at a bad place when I originally said it. I’m just worried about the future. What if I get sick and it qualifies a pre-existing condition? Will I be able to afford care? I’m just angry
Ksmiami
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: agreed- agonizing lonely deaths for GOP and their enablers.
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major: Except that when I press people on this, it turns out that often 1) I actually didn’t say it or 2) They didn’t actually read what I said. When I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But at least accuse me of things I’ve actually done, not what others have said I’ve done.
Major Major Major Major
@TenguPhule: I think it’s understandable that somebody might hear you saying that civil war is the only way to solve a problem, and come away thinking that you want to solve the problem with civil war.
Xenos
When I left the US it was not because of the broken health system in those pre-aca days. But I will not move back if it goes. Why put myself at the mercy of such people? So sad to see this happen to the one country i truly love, and to the many friends who are vulnerable for one reason or another.
The Truffle
@Chris: Seriously? I do think the red states would support the partition. They wouldn’t want liberal enclaves like California and New York bringing down real America. Alternatively, blue states could find a way to withhold federal taxes. Or maybe propose legislation that a state’s federal money is proportionate to what they pay in, tax-wise. That would be the first steps for the blue states to pull away. Blue states could also band together over common concerns–say, climate change or alternative energy.
Either way, it’s may be time to let “E Plurbius Unum” go. At least let states vote on whether to stay or leave the union.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@NotMax:
And looking back at that comment, it was pretty ugly. I apologize for it
TenguPhule
@Major Major Major Major:
Its not going to solve our problems. I don’t even know if there is any solution to our problems anymore.
I would love to be wrong on this. But every single time I try to figure out a peaceful resolution to this mess I always hit that one basic stumbling block. Republicans will not honor the rule of law. Every single time, that just wrecks everything.
That’s why I’m so bitter about this. I can see the disaster, I can warn about the disaster, but too many people want to keep pretending that the Republicans are inevitably going to come back to their senses any day now and things will go back to how they used to be.
Its not going to happen. I know this is a terrifying concept but its true.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@eric: Maybe that’s what McConnell wants; he can stir up all this fuss and end up with–nothing. Then he can say he tried to repeal the ACA, but it didn’t work. He makes the appearance of a good-faith effort without really making one.
TenguPhule
@a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio):
He can’t settle for nothing. Their budget depends on stealing money from Medicaid and Medicare.
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: Says the dude who puts words in quotation marks that another person did not say (see #73 above). Enjoy that sauce, gander!
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker: Okay, I’ll bite since you seem to have a mad on today.
Was I being rude or insulting to you? Did I interpret your words incorrectly?
Yes, my response prior to that one had elements of snark in it, but I honestly did not understand what seemed to be an out of character jab from you.
Another Scott
Guess what else is going on while they try to gut the US healthcare system for tens of millions…
GovExec:
In addition to Grandma not having health care any more, they’re trying to make sure she doesn’t get her checks on time, also too.
We have to fight them every single day…
Cheers,
Scott.
JKFJS
@TenguPhule: You are a mentally deranged human being in need of serious psychological help. You want to see “heads mounted on spikes”?
What the fuck is wrong with you? Did you set fire to puppies as a child? You sound exactly like Ted fucking Nugent.
I really wish the mods would delete your constant negativity and psychotic calls to violence.
TenguPhule
@JKFJS:
Only the proper heads for the proper reasons.
A trial, a conviction, an execution and some examples that the law means something.
Is that truly too much to ask for?
JKFJS
So you’re pro-death penalty.
Not just pro-death penalty, but pro-barbaric-medieval-forms-of-execution-and-revelling-in-those-executions-by-literally-mounting-human-heads-on-spikes-like-this-is-fucking-Game-of-Thrones-and-you’re-psychotic-King-Joffrey.
Very progressive.
Please talk to a mental health professional.
Betty Cracker
@TenguPhule: Yeah, you misinterpreted what I said, and you were both rude and insulting. But fuck it. There are real battles to be fought. I’m not wasting another nanosecond on this one. Toodles.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker: Then I apologize. I didn’t mean to come off that way.
J R in WV
@goblue72:
I like hot crunchy around the edges and moist and fruity in the middle pie too, brother!
Or with whipped cream!
Lizzy L
From the NYT:
TenguPhule
@JKFJS: You have no appreciation for the classics.
But you will learn, in time.
Or you will die at the hands of the Republicans.
Either way, not my problem.