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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / When I Was Cultivated By The Chinese

When I Was Cultivated By The Chinese

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It’s hard for me to believe that Jared Kushner and Donald Trump Jr. couldn’t figure out that the Russians they were meeting with might have had ulterior motives. I had an experience some years back that demonstrates how espionage recruitment works.

I was working on a project that was partly classified. My work was mostly unclassified. It was long enough ago that scientists exchanged reprints of their articles printed (nicely, by the journal publisher) on paper.

I loved getting reprint requests. International stamps on postcards, sometimes letters. One of them was from a Chinese institute, a complimentary letter with a lovely stamp on the envelope. A bit nicer than usual, but not extraordinary. So I sent the reprints.

They sent back another letter and some of their reprints. We should talk about our mutual interests. Perhaps I could even visit their laboratory. At that time, not many Americans were visiting China. It was intriguing and potentially a status point at work.

The project had a fair bit of visibility, and other governments were sending letters of interest in collaboration. One government offered to send two post-docs, all expenses paid. We had a good laugh about that. There wasn’t an institutional training program about recognizing recruitment, though.

An international meeting was coming up that they and I planned to go to. We could meet there. The Chinese interest began to seem more than normal collegiality.

I went to the meeting in Hawaii. They didn’t show up. I was relieved. I’ll never know for sure if they were trying to recruit me. That’s the point – the interest seems to be genuine, and they push a little bit and then a little more until you are giving them more information than you should.

Later it turned out that two people working on that project did give too much information to the Chinese.

Reader Interactions

78Comments

  1. 1.

    Shantanu Saha

    It’s hard for me to believe that Jared Kushner and Donald Trump Jr. couldn’t figure out that the Russians they were meeting with might have had ulterior motives.

    Not hard for me. Those two are as dumb as dirt. I went to an Ivy League university, and recognize the type, all legacy admits.

  2. 2.

    TenguPhule

    Later it turned out that two people working on that project did give too much information to the Chinese.

    Now you know why they didn’t show up for you.

  5. 5.

    patrick II

    When the opening gambit of a foreign government is that they want to give illegally obtained private dirt on a national political competitor who favors continuing sanctions the ulterior portion of the approach isn’t really very ulterior.

  6. 6.

    mai naem mobile

    I don’t think here much difference between Aldrich Ames and Robert Hansen, and Kushner and Donnie Dumdum. All willing to sell out their country to maintain their lifestyle/status. Shameful .

  7. 7.

    Roger Moore

    @TenguPhule:

    Now you know why they didn’t show up for you.

    I doubt that’s why. There’s no such thing as too many spies. The more you have, the more you can cross-check the information they provide you and the harder it will be for the country you’re spying on to turn them and use them to feed you misinformation.

  10. 10.

    Hungry Joe

    Many (many!) years ago i was in charge of reprints for Academic Press Journals, a division of what was then Harcourt Brace Jovanovich. We published about 90 journals, e.g., “Virology,” “Biochemical and Biophysical Research Communications,” etc. With most journals, authors got 50 free copies, but they usually ordered more through purchase orders issued by their universities. The markup, the profit made by Academic Press on those reprints was ungodly. I had one assistant; the two of us, both poorly paid, handled everything. Academic Press/HBJ was clearing $2 million – $3 million, net, every year; I know because I kept the books. Embezzlement possibilities were, alas, nil.

  11. 11.

    dmsilev

    @Hungry Joe: The reprint racket is pretty much dead; PDF killed it. Now the publishers gouge people in other ways instead (outlandish subscription fees mostly).

  12. 12.

    JMG

    My own story, less dramatic, but still of relevance: I covered the Sydney Olympics in 2000 as a sportswriter from Boston. On a slow day, I went to Beijing’s press conference for its 2008 bid (they’d lost out to Sydney for 2000) It was the usual dog and pony show featuring various Chinese Olympic stars and the Beijing mayor, who sounded like any American Sun Belt booster Mayor. There was one guy on the stage who kept to the very side and didn’t say anything, the obvious boss. At presentation’s end, after the Australian media asked some very entertaining questions (“if there’s no censorship in China, why do I keep getting arrested there?”) a beautiful, beautiful young woman came up and said “I see you’re an American and do you mind being interviewed?” From her, I minded nothing. She asked some questions about whether I wanted Beijing to have an Olympics and I said yes, it’d probably be the only chance I’d get to see China.” This was apparently the right answer and we parted all smiles. When I got back to the States, I got Chinese government propaganda emails on sports and US relations every day for months. I realized all she really wanted was a picture of the Olympic ID around my neck. If that’s what a government would do to get in touch with a mere Boston hack, imagine what they’d do for the dope kid of Donald Trump. Any government. Luxembourg could’ve compromised all of them.

  14. 14.

    kindness

    What happened to those two people?

    Not that anything at all will happen to Kushner or Trump Jr. That whole family is on Uday & Qusay’s level.

  18. 18.

    dr. bloor

    @Shantanu Saha:

    It’s hard for me to believe that Jared Kushner and Donald Trump Jr. couldn’t figure out that the Russians they were meeting with might have had ulterior motives.

    Not hard for me. Those two are as dumb as dirt. I went to an Ivy League university, and recognize the type, all legacy admits.

    Without meaning to defend either Tweedlecorrupt or Tweedlecorrupter, the Soviets were really very good at this sort of thing. Lots of otherwise intelligent people during the Cold War started out at “what harm could come of it?” and found themselves at “I’m fucked” before they really appreciated what was happening.

  19. 19.

    efgoldman

    @Mike J:

    Mooch says Trump wants medical system to be more like airlines.

    Evil, mendacious assholes as far as the eye can see.
    His voters get what they asked for – and deserve.
    I will giggle when they are all frog marched in orange jumpsuits.

  20. 20.

    Mnemosyne

    @patrick II:

    That wasn’t the opening gambit. The opening gambit was when Russian oligarchs started inviting the Trumps to parties and Russian banks started offering them loans.

    The “adoption” meeting was an acknowledgement that they all knew they were working towards the same goals.

  21. 21.

    Mnemosyne

    @dr. bloor:

    Lots of otherwise intelligent people during the Cold War started out at “what harm could come of it?” and found themselves at “I’m fucked” before they really appreciated what was happening.

    If anything, the Trump Family Dolts were probably quicker to get on board with the Russian program than an intelligent person would have been.

  28. 28.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @dr. bloor: True. And there were those two guys who got caught. It’s like any scam – if you believe that you really are as wonderful as the cultivator says you are, and if you have the feeling that nothing bad can ever happen to you, then it’s easier to fall into it.

  31. 31.

    Mnemosyne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    There’s also the classic warning about dealing with a con man: if you assume you’re smarter than the con man, you’re wrong. Making the mark feel like he’s the one conning you is the classic way to clean someone out.

  33. 33.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Mnemosyne: The Russian contacts were as far back as the 1980s. Undoubtedly the FSB kept a file. For the election, I suspect that the first tests of whether the Trump campaign wanted Russian help were Carter Page’s talks in Moscow and whatever it was that Flynn was doing. Plus Manafort’s volunteering to work for free for the campaign. The meeting with Jared and Don Jr. probably was to determine how far up the chain it could go.

  35. 35.

    RSA

    @Mike J:

    Mooch says Trump wants medical system to be more like airlines.

    Funny. This past Saturday I had to fly to Europe, with a connection in Newark, and I got email three hours before take off:

    Your flight… has been canceled due to air traffic control conditions impacting our flight operations.

    There was a link that made it possible to reschedule, but there were no flights to Newark from my airport for the rest of the day; I had to drive to a different airport, farther away, to see if I could catch an earlier flight. Ugh. That was a stressful day. The only reason it went through was that both flights I ended up on were significantly delayed.

    So yeah, if I schedule an important medical procedure, that’s just what I should expect.

  38. 38.

    TenguPhule

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    it was 2 years and change between the
    Watergate break-in and the Crook’s resignation.

    With all due respect, our institutions can’t survive 2 more years of this shit.

  39. 39.

    efgoldman

    @TenguPhule:

    our institutions can’t survive 2 more years of this shit.

    That was the conventional thinking in 1973, too. We did.

  40. 40.

    Schlemazel

    Hair furor and the rival for his love were both painfully aware that they were being played by the Russians. The Russians have the goods on those two and had they not played along their shit world would have crashed down around them.

    This sort of shit happens all the time. Walker sold secrets to start but then had to give them away for free because if he didn’t the Russians threatened to expose him. Its just smart business

  41. 41.

    TenguPhule

    @efgoldman:

    That was the conventional thinking in 1973, too. We did.

    Trump makes Nixon look like FDR. And you can’t be saying with a straight face that the damage to the federal government is even close in comparison.

  42. 42.

    dmsilev

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    And we all know how much folk love airlines.

    Coming up next: “we want to make American Health Care as fun and as exciting as dealing with the cable company.”

  45. 45.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    @dmsilev:

    Coming up next: “we want to make American Health Care as fun and as exciting as dealing with the cable company.”

    He also mentioned telecommunications, so that’s covered as well.

  46. 46.

    opiejeanne

    Alain the Site Fixer, or really anyone who can fix it.

    The pie filter statements are hilarious but I’d like to suggest that “petit fours” is the correct spelling of that delight.

  47. 47.

    TenguPhule

    @dmsilev:

    “we want to make American Health Care as fun and as exciting as dealing with the cable company. your cell phone carrier.”

    Corrected for updates to technology and customer preferences.

  49. 49.

    Felonius Monk

    @Mike J:

    Mooch says Trump wants medical system to be more like airlines.

    You mean the airlines that Trump never flies on? The reason he bought his own plane was because to airlines were too unreliable and wouldn’t cater to his schedule. And , of course now that he flies on Air Force One, he’s doing it at our expense.

  50. 50.

    TenguPhule

    Donald Trump: I am the dumbest man in America! Martin Shkreli: Fuck you gramps, hold my beer!

    Shkreli, 34, is best known for raising the price of a life-saving drug by 5,000 percent and targeting his critics with online rants so nasty that it got him kicked off of Twitter for harassment. He was arrested in 2015 on unrelated federal charges accusing him of lying to investors in a pair of failed hedge funds.

    Though not part of the case, the price-gouging scandal has hung over the trial and burdened Shkreli with a likability deficit that made it even more of a longshot that he would testify. But that hasn’t stopped him from using the internet to vent after spending long days sitting at the defense table.

    In one of a flurry of recent Facebook posts, he wrote: “This was a bogus case from day one.”

    He also has taken aim at news coverage of the trial, a la Donald Trump, writing, “More trash from the NYTimes. Is there an intelligent writer-editor pair at this company? Who would read this ‘news’?”

    Even prosecutors aren’t off limits: Earlier this month, he taunted them as “the cowardly government,” while he griped about their trial tactics. “This is not North Korea,” he wrote.

    Its like a competition to see which one of them gives their lawyer an ulcer first.

  52. 52.

    opiejeanne

    @Mike J:

    Ever been beaten and dragged out of your doctor’s office?

    Mooch says Trump wants medical system to be more like airlines.

    I was going to say I don’t know what that even means but then I listened for 10 seconds. God, I hate the idea of “disruption” as a viable business plan.

  55. 55.

    Barbara

    @Mike J: When a transatlantic flight is canceled it can sometimes be a better strategy to see if there is a flight to an alternate European city. Once you cross the Atlantic it is easier to get to other European destinations because there are many more flights. Amsterdam, Paris, or Frankfurt would all have frequent flights to London. Just a thought.

  56. 56.

    sharl

    OT: Looks like a shot fired across Twitler’s bow (via twitter haha) from the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee (bolding is mine):

    Igor Bobic‏ @igorbobic

    Here’s one Senate Republican actually taking some action against Trump

    ChuckGrassley‏ @ChuckGrassley

    Everybody in D.C. Shld b warned that the agenda for the judiciary Comm is set for rest of 2017. Judges first subcabinet 2nd / AG no way (link)

    I assume the SJC will hold confirmation hearings for a new AG if Sessions resigns “of his own volition”. But looks like Grassley is sending a message to the White House here.

  57. 57.

    jl

    From the link:

    ” If you’ve never seen a major-league curveball, you shouldn’t pretend you’re a major-leaguer. ”

    Actually, I think anyone who can figure out tee-ball…

  58. 58.

    efgoldman

    @sharl:

    But looks like Grassley is sending a message to the White House here.

    And the message is: WE don’t want that asshole back.

  60. 60.

    Chris

    @mai naem mobile:

    I remember reading a comment comparing the famous British spies (Philby, Burgess, Maclean) and the famous American ones (Ames, Hanssen) and pointing out that the Brits did it for ideology, the Yanks did it for money.

    Insert commentary on America here.

  62. 62.

    efgoldman

    @schrodingers_cat:

    How are you feeling?

    Really crappy, thank you. Spent the weekend in the hospital getting round-the-clock dialysis.
    My appetite is mostly back, for some definitions of appetite. My legs are very weak and achy (I’m using a cane. Should probably use a walker but that seems to me like giving in.)
    They tell me that I’ll start to feel better in a couple of weeks. I’m inclined not to believe them. but every single doc and nurse has said so.

  64. 64.

    JPL

    @lamh36: Well if Ivanka and Jared weren’t saving their political capital, they would say something.

    I really hate all of the orange assholes.

  65. 65.

    TenguPhule

    Lawyers upon lawyers upon lawyers: In Trump World, everyone has an attorney.

    The White House has its own counsel, of course, and now Trump has his own personal attorneys. So does the Trump Organization. There are lawyers for each member of the Trump family. And that’s not counting the layers of lawyers for everyone working in the administration. There are lawyers all the way down.

    Follow the money, the adage says. But with so much of that money going to lawyers these days, it might just be easier to follow the lawyers. (Legal disclaimer: Don’t actually follow the lawyers.)

    The jokes write themselves.

  67. 67.

    TenguPhule

    @lamh36: Trump already discussing a recess appointment.

    Sorta, Kinda.

    Trump has discussed with confidants and advisers in recent days the possibility of installing a new attorney general through a recess appointment if Jeff Sessions leaves the job, but he has been warned not to move to push him out because of the political and legal ramifications, according to people briefed on the conversations.

    Still raging over Sessions’s recusal from the Justice Department’s escalating Russia investigation, Trump has been talking privately about how he might replace Sessions and possibly sidestep Senate oversight, four people familiar with the issue said.

    Two of those people, however, described Trump as musing about the idea rather than outlining a plan of action, and a senior White House official said no action is imminent. Several people familiar with the discussions said that Trump’s fury peaked over the weekend and that he and Sessions now seem to be heading toward an uneasy detente.

    The only certain thing is uncertainty.

  68. 68.

    sharl

    @lamh36:

    KKKleebler Elf Sessions AIN’T resigning…he’s got an anti-minority agenda to push via the DOJ!

    Yup, he’s made no secret of the fact that he’s livin’ the dream…of an old unapologetic racist with great legal power. And Grassley and other Senate GOPers have his back. It’s more of this

    Brandy Jensen‏ @BrandyLJensen

    watching conservatives wrestle with defending the racist against the other racist whose win lets them do a lot of racism

  69. 69.

    efgoldman

    @lamh36:

    I expect the entire country to have PTSD after this presidency is over

    I expect him to resurrect Kelly Anne’s Bowling Green massacre story by the end of the week.

  72. 72.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @lamh36:
    Scram Machine’s job is to praise Trump publicly. He is fantastically good at it, at least from Trump’s tacky perspective. Expect to hear Trump referred to as ‘godlike’ and references to all the people saying Trump is unquestionably the greatest president in American history.

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