I am done with football. https://t.co/8dfEizHO0e
— On Trial for ?????? (@ZeddRebel) July 25, 2017
This CTE study came out earlier this week — it got a lot of coverage in the local media, being as the medical team is Boston-based — but there were so many other important stories to cover, and it’s not like I understand sportsball.
But this *follow-up* story in Deadspin makes it pretty clear that the big-money men in charge of the NFL have decided that maximizing their own profits, this season, is more important than not only their players’ lives and health… but the whole future of the sport. What parent with any options is gonna let their kid get involved with a sport that’s pretty much guaranteed to lead to traumatic brain injury and an unhappy, abbreviated life? (“Suicide, in fact, was the leading cause of death among those with mild CTE.”)
(Sure, professional boxing is still A Thing, but it’s been half a century since boxing was on tv outside of niche pay-per-view channels. And boxing doesn’t require the kind of high-dollar equipment and massive feeder system supported by high schools and colleges all over the country… )
And that pretty much puts the NFL in line with the sociopaths currently squatting in the Oval Office, so there’s your political tie-in.
The NFL is evil. https://t.co/B1Jf6PVwPb
— On Trial for ??? (@ZeddRebel) July 28, 2017
The NFL has given the National Institutes of Health less than half of the $30 million they promised for concussion research five years ago, and after repeatedly trying to influence how their “unrestricted gift” was used, the league is letting their agreement expire with no plans to finish paying up.
The news comes from a report by ESPN’s Outside the Lines, two days after ranking members of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce published a letter to the NFL demanding to know when the $30 million would be paid in full. The league responded to Congress with a mealy-mouthed statement about being “engaged in constructive discussions,” but the NIH told ESPN today that there are no current plans for the remaining funds and the agreement will simply expire next month as originally planned—with at least $16 million yet to be paid…
The NFL trumpeted this gift as proof of their commitment to addressing CTE and head trauma. It’s abundantly clear now that this was simple lip service. The NFL was not committed to concussion research; it was committed to receiving praise for concussion research done on their terms and their terms only. The NFL, in other words, was interested in paying for propaganda, and the NIH refused to play along.
OzarkHillbilly
Watch this video.
Roger Moore
More like a quarter century. I’m less than half a century old, and I remember Howard Cosell announcing boxing on the TV growing up.
PsiFighter37
This is the funniest thing I have seen all day. Whoever did this at Deadspin deserves a raise. It’s the best summary of what went down early this morning.
Mnemosyne
I’m wondering if there’s any way the players’ union can or will pressure the owners to fully fund that study. What a bunch of assholes.
Ruckus
I’ve personally known 2 who play NFL ball, both for 9 yrs, different teams and positions. Both suffered head injuries with long lasting severe issues and have many other medical needs as well from playing the game. I only expect the NFL to give a shit when forced by law.
Mnemosyne
Also, too, anyone who thinks that MMA is somehow safer than boxing is going to be very upset about 15 years from now when former MMA stars with TBIs start committing suicide and acting out.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Jock-O-Rama-On the brain
Redneck-a-thon drivin’ me insane
The future of America is in their hands
Watch it roll over Niagara Falls
Unzip that old time religion
On the almighty football field
Beer bellies of all ages
Come to watch the gladiators bleed
“Now boys, this game ain’t played for fun
You’re going out there to win
How d’ya win?
Get out there
And snap the other guy’s knee!”
The star quarterback lies injured
Unconscious on the football field
Looks like his neck’s been broken
Seems to happen somewhere every year
His mom and dad clutch themselves and cry
Their favorite son will never walk again
Coach says, “That boy gave a hundred percent
What spirit
What a man”
But who cares?
Games over-Let’s go get wasted man
To the 7-11, to the liquor store
Let’s party all night and party some more
Jock-O-Rama, Dead Kennedys
lamh36
On MSNBC…Howard Fineman made a good point, with the appt of Kelly, Cheeto is doubling up on “us vs the other”..
To my mind that means embracing white nationalism vs those foreigners/immigrants/Chicagoans/anyone NOT white
And that should scare us all…
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Don’t really need any more studies done. Just the extreme percentage of players with severe injuries should be enough to know this isn’t normal or right. The NFL has a good thing going money wise and they aren’t about to spoil that on their own.
Chet Murthy
ISTR reading that soccer is in the same camp. B/c it isn’t the huge hits that do the harm: it’s the many-times-a-practice small hits. And heading practice in soccer is just that.
Roger Moore
Not to minimize the danger of CTE, but one needs to be very careful when using the numbers produced by this study. This was not based on a random cross-section of former players. The current tests for CTE can only be performed by lab tests on pieces of brain, so it’s only practical to test dead players who donated their brains to science. That produces a very biased sample; the brains used in the study were almost all donated specifically because the players (or their families) suspected they were suffering from CTE, so it’s no surprise that most of them were.
Again, I don’t want to minimize the dangers of CTE. I have given up watching football because I can’t bring myself to be associated with a game that does this to its players, even as a fan who doesn’t give them any money directly. But we won’t have a really good idea of the real prevalence of CTE among former players until they’ve come up with a non-invasive test so they can actually test a broad, unbiased cross-section of players.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
Yeah, you do. These were players who had problems and deliberately left their brains to science. What has been revealed so far is very suggestive, but it is only the beginning. In the meantime, I would not be bothered if all football, from Pop Warner to the NFL were to be suspended. And you are going to have to look at other sports as well.
Roger Moore
@lamh36:
Trump’s Law: For every bad thing Trump does as President, there’s a tweet of him accusing Obama of that exact thing.
lamh36
Wow…
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Brachiator:
More research is always welcome. I imagine primarily full contact sports, like hockey would need to be looked at. Not sure about baseball or basketball; head impacts aren’t as frequent in those.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
amazing if accurate (if inaccurate, still fairly decent; please correct if so)
lamh36
Wow…it’s def scary now!
lamh36
Welp…
rikyrah
@lamh36:
I hear you lamh
Roger Moore
@Chet Murthy:
There’s a big question mark about soccer. Yes, it involves players deliberately hitting things with their heads, but a soccer ball is much lighter than another person’s head, so the impact isn’t nearly as severe. This is one of those things that needs more study, ideally with a test that can be used on living brains.
rikyrah
@lamh36:
Incompetence
Brachiator
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
The brains left for research were self-selected. All the players already had problems. The research is only beginning.
different-church-lady
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): So the question is, why did McCain do it? Seems pretty obvious at this point it was deliberate.
smintheus
@Chet Murthy: I decided at a young age (early ’70s) that I was going to avoid heading a soccer ball if at all possible, and I played pretty intently for years. Didn’t want to end up dead in the head.
lamh36
https://twitter.com/sppeoples/status/891052582348754944
OOOOhhhh…ya don’t say…
Fair Economist
@Chet Murthy:
Not as bad as American football, but yes. There have been a couple of cases of early soccer CTE, and they mostly seem to involve famous headers. IMO they should change the rules to ban heading.
Tokyokie
I did a presentation on CTE a few years ago for an A&P class, and what I learned from that has pretty much killed my interest in the NFL. And what’s come out since just makes it worse. But I remain of the opinion that, counterintuitively, the way to reduce head injuries in football is to ban helmets, not try to make them better. You’re more likely to lead with your head if you think it’s well protected; if it’s not protected at all, then that’s unlikely.
Barbara
@Roger Moore: I do not like headers in soccer, but there is a difference in impact when two objects of the same density collide versus one light object bouncing off of a harder one.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
He may not have signed an NDA but I’ll bet he’s already signed a publishing contract for a HUUUUUUUUGE advance.
smintheus
@Roger Moore: That’s true. And it’s also worth noting that the study found that fewer than 25% of the (small number of) people who played only high school football whose brains they tested had CTE. That would be abysmal if it’s representative of all school football players, but it’s less abysmal than the nearly 100% CTE rate among college players tested.
Jeffro
@Fair Economist:
Exactly – problem solved.
One thing about bringing in Kelly as sorta-CoS: he was already on the inside with the Trumpov crime family. Now they’ll need someone new to head up Homeland Security and they seem to have a hard time finding quality people (or people, period).
Roger Moore
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
I don’t think that’s accurate. I think the thing about only one reconciliation bill on a topic per session means that they can only consider one House bill on a topic for each session. It doesn’t mean they’re allowed only a single floor vote. Otherwise they couldn’t have had three separate votes on three different versions of the bill during the vote-a-rama that just ended.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
Given that ICE and DHS have already been running wild and violating their own rules, I don’t feel too good knowing that they don’t have anyone who’s in charge now.
This is not going to end well.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Roger Moore: Thx for clarification. My impression was that McCain’s ultimate decision was based in concerns about legacy (re: no Nobel-style obituaries upon his passing).
swbarnes2
@Brachiator:
True, but the % of all players with “problems” isn’t small, right? If virtually every player who thought they had issues had detectable brain damage…then probably just about all the living ex-players who have issues do too.
Elizabelle
Oh sure, Anne Laurie, you watch the skinny ninny healthcare vote and the shitcanning of Priebus and your attention turns to ….
brain damage.
How could it not?
Mnemosyne
@Brachiator:
Which is why it’s a huge problem that the NFL is refusing to support more research. They don’t like the direction it’s going, so they’re pulling the funding before their plausible deniability is shot to hell.
Chet Murthy
@Roger Moore: @Fair Economist: The study I read was specifically designed to test the deleterious effects of “usual heading”. Specifically, they tested cognitive function (using some standard battery) before and after a standard heading practice, and found significant cognitive decline. Over time, the decline reversed itself, but then, the same is true of concussions in typical football practice. And in the case of football, we’ve seen that even young players with no history of hard hits — just the usual hits of practice — display CTE. So it’s pretty reasonable to think that heading is deleterious too. Wish I could remember where I’d read the article.
Fair Economist
@Tokyokie:
It would reduce CTE, but the reason they started using helmets in the first place was that players were literally dying on the field.
My own son has fortunately lost interest without ever playing any organized tackle football, so there’s a win in *my* house.
Mnemosyne
@different-church-lady:
I’m perfectly satisfied with my theory that he did it to fuck over McConnell and Trump. It’s exactly the kind of spiteful thing McCain would do.
lamh36
@SiubhanDuinne: and it must be saving it for the book, cause his interview on CNN is boring as hell…smh.
Reince … jeez…I’m not some big ya gotta be macho type person, but good gawd…Reince seems like someone even my niece Zoe would run over…smh
Jeez, the dude comes off as such a wimp…smh
ETA: I mean it’s fine to be classy, but jeez…you can be classy and NOT a pushover…smh
Chet Murthy
@Barbara: The issue never was the skull impact. It was the rapid deceleration of the brain -inside- the skull. If a heading causes the skull to slow down a lot over a very, very short distance, then the brain inside is going to do the same, by smashing against the skull. As I said @Chet Murthy: here, the article I’d read found significant cognitive decline after heading practice.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: It’s that whole no government experience. Whenever you leave a position for an extended period of time (or permanently) you appoint an acting head until he/she is replaced.
YES I’M LOOKING AT YOU REXXON!!!
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Mnemosyne: Wonder if those Redneck Revolt people and ICE will start to clash?
Roger Moore
@Tokyokie:
I don’t think banning helmets would do the job. People might not use their heads as weapons anymore, but they would still be in danger of getting clobbered by others. Remember that the reason players started wearing helmets in the first place is because too many of them were dying from acute head trauma. Asking players the size of the guys in today’s NFL to go out there without helmets is asking for more on-field deaths.
One thing I’ve thought about is turning current helmets inside out. Rather than a hard shell with padding on the inside, they should go for a hard shell close to the head- basically a cranial exoskeleton- with layers of padding on the outside. Something like that would have a couple of advantages:
1) It would be less formidable as a weapon, so it would discourage players from hitting with their heads
2) It would show damage more readily. If the padding on the outside of a player’s helmet were obviously damaged, they could be taken out of the game to test if their brain had suffered some damage.
Laura
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it’s Always a good time for a DK song! Thanks Goku.
In addition to Roger G being of the devil, I would love to see a class action suit brought by every mayor of every city who used public funds to build a stadium for the enrichment of the league owners, as the inevitable demise of profootball will reduce the likelyhood of paying off the debts associated with building these stadiums. With the exception of Greenbay Wisconsin.
Fair Economist
@Chet Murthy: Wow, I hadn’t heard about an actual study showing heading led to a (temporary?) cognitive decline. That’s frightening. Even without that I’d say there’s enough reason to be suspicious (nonconcussive damage in football, association between heading and CTE in professional players) that they should take heading out. When children are involved in sports, the burden of proof should be on those claiming safety.
Jeffro
@Roger Moore: Football in the future: the year 17776, to be exact
(very cool sci-fi-ish long read…save it for a quiet afternoon NOT watching the NFL, folks)
(ETA: ya’ll have to hang with it a bit…the first ‘chapter’ starts quite far from a football field)
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
Oh, I expect his book will be boring as hell, too. Let’s be honest, he is a boring as hell kind of guy.
p.a.
Anyone hear from efg? Dialysis is serious stuff, physically and emotionally…
smintheus
@Barbara: Many soccer balls when headed are moving at fairly high speed, which makes heading them proportionately more damaging than their nominal weight might suggest.
Fair Economist
@Mnemosyne: An alternative theory is that McCain wanted to be sure they wouldn’t pester him again while he’s going through treatment. He’ll get some peace now, that’s for sure!
Steeplejack
@Roger Moore:
You’re cutting it close with a “quarter century.” Cosell died 22 years ago and last called boxing in 1984.
Barbara
@smintheus: All true — I suspect that the repetitive impact that comes with play after play in football is as much the issue as the nature of the impact. Virtually every play in football involves impact of some kind or another. Not so much for soccer.
Mike in DC
Kinda puts the NCAA in a spot of bother. Their pockets aren’t as deep, and there’s indicia that even college (and maybe high school) play is enough to be at risk for CTE. A bad look for institutions of higher learning to blithely give their students long term brain damage (aside from the sort of trauma associated with grad school and engineering programs).
lamh36
@SiubhanDuinne: he really is…isn’t he…smh
lamh36
According to the reporters, Jared & Ivana want Bannon gone too.
But unlike Reince and the rest who have tried to burn no bridges…Bannon. I’m betting Bannon will BURN THE PLACE DOWN upon his exit!
Fair Economist
One of my son’s good friends plays on his high school football team (second string, fortunately). They’ve got accelerometers in their helmets. Which sounds good – except it will be at least 20-30 years before they know what acceleration levels are “safe”. It’s being marketed as a way to keep kids safe but it’s really a way to make them experimental guinea pigs.
They have reduced contact practice, which is almost certainly good, although also almost certainly not enough to really fix the problem.
lamh36
@SiubhanDuinne: Trump hired Reince just so he could be the boss of the man who told him to drop out & never let him 4get it. always planned to humiliate him
Roger Moore
@lamh36:
I shudder to think of what’s going to happen when Bannon leaves. The only way it’s going to go well is if he pulls a Breitbart and leaves feet first.
dmsilev
@lamh36: This is going to end with just Donald, Ivanka, and Jared all alone in a room together, driving each other ever deeper into madness.
Sartre would be proud. No Exit indeed.
Tripod
I believe the end for boxing on broadcast was Mancini beating Kim to death.
In addition to the headers, men’s soccer has lots of head to head, head to knee and head to goal post action.
Ruckus
@Brachiator:
So how many more studies do we need to see that constant ramming your head into things is OK for your long term health? 2? 5? 10? Another 20 yrs? Even if this is a self selected posthumous study, it is a rather large segment of the population with active participation and is far more than shown out side of major contact sports. But of course nothing will be done or change, because the money doesn’t give a shit and republicans are in charge, so money rules far outweighs any other consideration. This is after all the party that just tried to kill millions by removing healthcare legislation.
Monala
Shit. My husband played high school and college football.
Fair Economist
@Roger Moore:
Trump’s Russian boss could help with that.
khead
Yeah, this. There’s a bit of an overreaction to the story. But I also want to add that it doesn’t mean that NFL Inc isn’t an asshole for stiffing folks in the settlement though.
efgoldman
@Mnemosyne:
There’s a race to the bottom between the NFLPA and the NHL players to see which can give their rank and file members the worst, most useless representation and advocacy.
They all looked at the great Marvin Miller and his great success in MLB, and decided they were smart enough to do it on their own.
Mnemosyne
@p.a.:
He was around yesterday. He’s feeling better and a little freaked out retroactively because he suspects he was in worse shape going in than his doctors were letting on. But he’s improving.
ETA: It’s the man himself! ?
Tokyokie
@Fair Economist: Doing away with helmets is the only path I see possible for football, but you’re right, it probably leads someplace bad as well. Have your kids play baseball instead. The pro contracts are bigger and guaranteed, and few ballplayers suffer crippling injuries that impair their ability to perform ADLs.
Morzer
@Roger Moore:
I really don’t want think about Bannon pulling anything!
A Ghost to Most
@Roger Moore:
I’ve thought this for a long time.
HS players here wear what is akin to bubble wrap on their helmets during practice.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: @Mnemosyne: The placement of these two comments amused me.
MazeDancer
Millions of people’s entire tribal, social life revolves around football. It is the thread of community of commentators and co-workers.
This blog has many smart, interesting, kind, and liberal people who will never change their minds that football is a wonderful and delicious part of life. Being anti-football can be about as popular as being pro-Trump here.
Football hurts people. Destroys their brains. Celebrates violence. Overlooks domestic abuse. And makes an obscene amount of money.
Not sure how all the bad parts changes people’s love of it. Denial makes the most sense when one really loves the game.
And the money will prevent change for a long, long time. Just hope people keep their children out of the game. And that, soon, communities stop using tax dollars to scramble the brains of children and young men.
Steeplejack
Trump’s gypsy Twitter curse strikes again (from MSNBC):
lamh36
The fact that Kelly was okay with leaving DHS so abruptly and with no real acting leadership…makes me think even less of him than I would just cause Trump chose him.
If immigration and terrorism is SOOOOO important to you…why would you be ok with leaving the dept central to enforcing laws and policies pertaining to those issue, LEADERLESS…for at least until the Fall…
Felanius Kootea
The Baltimore Ravens’ John Urschel, who is also working on his math PhD at MIT, finally retired from the NFL after the report on CTE damage in 99% of NFL players. I’d wondered when he’d realize that he should quit. If your long-term goal is to be a math professor, as his is, playing in the NFL is not a good idea.
Chet Murthy
New Yorker article about soccer & CTE
smintheus
@Tokyokie: I quit playing baseball at age 13 when I nearly took a pitcher’s head off with a line drive.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
@Mnemosyne: The person in charge is the Acting Secretary, generally whoever was the senior career civil servant selected for this. Sally Yates was in this slot at the Department of Justice. I’m not saying we’re lucky enough that DOHS will have someone as good as she was, but there’s someone where, with authority to act as necessary.
Many of the empty positions Trump hasn’t filled yet are being covered by senior career people, who are highly experienced and knowledgeable about their department, agency, or program. They are going to be, in many cases if not all, better than anyone Trump will come up with.
efgoldman
@different-church-lady:
Some are giving him credit for growing a conscience at the age of 80.
Occam’s Politics suggest it was pretty much his last chance to shiv both Tangerine Torquemada and Yertle McTurtle, and he took it.
p.a.
@Mnemosyne: Don’t tell him I was concerned; he can sense weakness… ?
khead
@Felanius Kootea:
He “finally retired” after becoming eligible for his NFL pension. Smart dude.
TenguPhule
@Tokyokie:
On the minus side, there’s a strong incentive to cheat the system with artificial enhancements and crippling injuries and death are not unheard of (though the latter are thankfully rare)
TenguPhule
@a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio):
Many more of them are not being covered by anyone anymore.
Adam linked to an article aboutthe Dept of Energy on Vox.
It was the stuff nightmares are made of.
Yarrow
@dmsilev: Apparently Ivanka and Jared have hired the same lawyer, so it could be them against Trump.
efgoldman
@p.a.:
:::raises hand:::
Roger Moore
@Fair Economist:
Yes, a 9mm aneurysm would speed things up.
Fair Economist
@Tokyokie: Basketball also doesn’t seems associated with high rates of brain dysfunction. Great for a sport to play although you need a certain body type to do it professionally (as with football.)
Here in Orange County California baseball is becoming the “big” sport to get your kids into again. It hits a certain sweet spot of relatively low chronic injuries and opportunities for a wide range of body types.
TenguPhule
Trump is something the nation did not know it needed.
When you’ve lost George Will….
Steeplejack
@different-church-lady:
You could make the case that McCain did this to force the Senate back to “regular order”: no more special double-secret “only need 50 votes” bullshit; now they have to work on bills that can get 60 votes.
Mnemosyne
@MazeDancer:
I feel about football the same way I feel about capitalism: there’s nothing inherently wrong with it as a game/economic system, but the way we’re currently letting people run wild with it with no oversight or regulation is destroying lives.
Hungry Joe
The biggest — well, certainly the loudest fight we ever had in my family was over football. My older brother wasn’t real big, but it was a small-ish high school in a small-ish league, so that didn’t matter. He was solid and very quick; he and the coaches agreed he’d be a linebacker. Then our parents said, “No. No football. You’ll get hurt.” The battle raged for days, maybe even a couple of weeks. I took my brother’s side because I wanted to see him play, and — probably more important — with a sleight build and an uncanny ability to find ways to injure myself there was no way I would ever attempt tackle football, so I had no skin (or for that matter, bones) in the game. Parents held fast: No football. Today he’s 69 and still working, part-time, as a broker/personal investment advisor, and high school basketball referee. Perfect health. Sound, clear mind. ***Parents.***
Yarrow
@MazeDancer:
I thought that was already happening in more affluent areas. Parents have seen the brain injury research and don’t want their kids to risk it. So they’re keeping them out of football.
jacy
@Tokyokie:
As I understand it, the problem is that football players are just too damn big. All that muscle at high speed causes the impact to slosh the brain around. Football players get bigger and stronger and faster, it doesn’t matter what kind of equipment they’re wearing, there’s going to be damage.
Yarrow
@efgoldman: How are you feeling today? I hope a bit better.
Fair Economist
@MazeDancer: Well said.
I think part of the reason football looks aside for domestic abuse is that the brain injuries predispose players to become abusers. Increased aggression and loss of impulse control in 250+ lb athletic men? Not a good idea.
efgoldman
@p.a.:
Don’t look in the basement!!!!!
Amaranthine RBG
The death toll caused by football has been known for years now.
The notion that it’s okay for people to suffer brain damage for entertainment purposes is barbaric.
People who watch it and promote it are complicit in the deaths.
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: @Steeplejack: This seems plausible.
Mnemosyne
@a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio):
I can’t find the link, but there was a story in the New Yorker by one of their writers who was contacted by an anonymous DHS agent who was really freaked out by what was going on and how gleeful his fellow agents seemed to be about arresting kids and soccer moms.
That’s why I can’t see this as leading anywhere good.
Roger Moore
@TenguPhule:
Because we know there’s no PED use in the NFL.
efgoldman
@jacy:
Right. When I started watching in the early 1960s, a notably big lineman was 200-240 lbs, usually lighter. John Hannah, the Hall of Fame Patriot guard, was listed at 240, but was much closer to 200.
A 315+ player was unheard of.
TenguPhule
@Roger Moore:
Not an either-or.
TenguPhule
@Mnemosyne:
And Trump is working his Shit-Midas magic on the regular law enforcement too.
His latest speech would have been right at home in 1920s Berlin.
Yarrow
@PsiFighter37: God, I love that. I’ve been watching it all day. Rubio having to lean on the desk for support. Cassidy’s head drop. McConnell’s crossed arms as he watched McCain destroy him. It’s a thing of fucking beauty.
lamh36
@efgoldman: My thoughts on why McCain did it. The drama…I guess… the ole phoney loves the adoration he gets for the “Maverick” label…his diagnosis is essentially a ticking timeclock death sentence…and once he and Lindsey and the other dude came out to say they didn’t really even like the bill…smh.
Do I think if there was more than Murkowski and Collins saying NO that McCain would have still voted NO?
nope…his azz woulda still voted YES? But when it comes down to it, he was the ONLYy one of the GOP who did not have to worry bout re-election…
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Laura:
No problem. Scary how relevant their songs still are today
Morzer
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article164177042.html
Hoooboy! Looks like the small-fingered subsidiary of Putin Inc. is really making things betterer and betterer.
khead
@MazeDancer:
I really like this post even though I am very much one of the people you describe. Of course, I may be a Steeler fan but I am also a cynical gambler who thinks that – at this particular point in history – anyone who decides to play football now is analogous to a person picking up a pack of Kools (Mom’s brand) in 1970 after the Surgeon General’s landmark warning. I suspect that’s how society in general will react as well.
Having said that – it’s worse than you think. On top of everything else you already stated, fantasy football is a monster. Plus, legal sports betting on football all over the US is coming. Very soon.
tybee
@Jeffro: well, that was certainly different.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Morzer:
Thanks Trump! You sure are making the world a safer place ?
lamh36
@Yarrow: if not knowing the backstory…you imagine McCain as that old man who’s just like…”FUQ this shit…I’m going to bed”…lol
Mnemosyne
@khead:
Except that it’s not adults who decide for themselves if they’re going to play — it’s adults deciding on behalf of their children. You can’t really say that someone is personally responsible for the decision he made at the age of 8 to play Pop Warner football.
TenguPhule
@Morzer: What could possibly go wrong?
Other then everything.
Kathleen
@Chet Murthy: I heard discussion about brain injuries and football several years ago on NPR. One of the panelists, I believe it was the author of a book about brain damage who had reviewed many different studies, made the point that it’s not only hits to the head that cause brain damage but repeated hits on all parts of the body can contribute as well. I had never realized that. Real Sports on HBO has been covering this story for years. Best news show on TV.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
There is good reason why Charles Pierce refers to him as the Obvious Anagram….
https://new.wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=REINCEPRIEBUS&t=500&a=n
BBA
@Jeffro: “what year is it? is steely dan still together?” is my line of the year.
TenguPhule
Guess who did it again? “Wells Fargo in another scandal, this time in auto lending”
Just shut it down already. Talk about short term over long term survival. Sheesh.
BBA
@SiubhanDuinne: is there still an opening at the RNC to do PR BS? that was the job he was born for.
khead
@Mnemosyne:
Your beef is with the jackass Dad living his failed football life though his kid. Can’t help you there. My parents never said a word when I quit football the day after being KNOCKED DAFUCK OUT while running a crossing pattern in a LL All Star game. That was 1980 or ’81. After that it was hoops and baseball.
Kathleen
@Morzer: The Mooch does enough thinking about that for all of us.
Roger Moore
@SiubhanDuinne:
I much prefer RNC PR BS, which is what you get by removing all the vowels from his name.
lamh36
Ya gotta think McCain’s mighty pissed…his healthcare NO vote moment, has almost COMPLETELY ignored since the news about Reince…
Ya gotta imagine McCain’s looking at the coverage right now like this —> http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/019/304/old.jpg
Jeffro
@tybee: I know, right? Complete mind-break from dumb Priebus stuff (and everything else!)
@BBA: make it the password for your speakeasy, should you happen to have one.
Still a lot of fun. I think there’s an interview on the same site with the creator/writer about what he was trying to do…fascinating stuff…
Mike J
For fans of yacht racing, head injuries, and American democracy, you can watch the 1992 America’s Cup on youtube in which Bill Koch (yes, that Koch) gets knocked senseless by the tackle for the running backstay.
I watch it often.
Yarrow
@lamh36: Oh, I don’t think so. He got tons of coverage for two days and led the news in the morning and most of the day. In the age of Trump, getting almost a full day of coverage is pretty good, since things happen so fast.
Kathleen
@Felanius Kootea: Sort of OT, but former Bengal star Mike Reid quit football when he was on top because he was a trained classical musician and wanted to pursue a career in music. I met him in 1972 when he was still playing with the Bengals and I made the comment that football must be pretty stressful. He replied that his stress was nothing compared to what his brother fighting in Vietnam endured. Very impressive person. I’m so glad he quit when he did.
chris
@TenguPhule: It was the stuff nightmares are made of.
Kathleen
@efgoldman: So nice to see you here. Your absence (though understandable) leaves a void. How are you, and your wife, doing?
Jeffro
@TenguPhule: “…may have cost 20,000 people their cars…”
I know we are talking cars not lives here, but…we’re almost talking about lives here, or livelihoods, anyway. No car = no job, or at the very least, a ton of extra time using buses, cadging rides, etc. Not to mention the false ‘ding’ on their credit ratings.
Hell, just the couple of times I’ve had to use the dealership’s/repair shop’s loaner, I’m cranked and out of sorts.
/spoiled in suburbia
TenguPhule
@chris: That’s the one. I will never sleep soundly again.
TenguPhule
@Jeffro: And they’re almost certainly low balling the numbers.
Jeffro
@TenguPhule: 20,000 families suddenly without transportation/downgraded on their credit rating…it’s somewhere between ‘tragedy’ and ‘statistic’ (h/t Stalin). Have to think about that. I’m pretty sure, though, that it qualifies as “a crime where some motherfuckers ought to go to jail, just for once”.
I’ll never understand how folks who rip other people off for a living live with themselves. Payday lenders, people who hustle seniors on home repairs, “supplement” sellers – all of it.
Jeffro
Btw, now that the GOP has cratered over repealing Obamacare (knock on wood) (knock on wood again), it’s interesting – there’s a story up on CNN about how House Rs are pissing all over Senate Rs, right next to a story about Trump weeding out the “establishment” by firing RNC PR BS.
Anyway, it is worth noting that there are a LOT of angles by which the GOP’s various factions could really start to go after each other. All of which excite me terribly. But the main thing is that they do that, and continue to fray. It’ll help a lot in 2018 and 2020, when there’s no HRC to mindlessly unite the goopers…
efgoldman
@Jeffro:
The MA AG just got a seven-figure fine/settlement from the state’s largest delinquent collection firm, for unlawful tactics and failure to have accurate records.
Yarrow
Oh, this is funny. There are so many of them.
gene108
@Fair Economist:
You can’t compare the Harvard-Yale scrums of the 1890’s and 1900’s to the modern game.
From what I have read, when people were dying from football, it was about a bunch of people pushing and jostling in very tight quarters. There was the notorious flying wedge* formation, which was banned because it caused so many injuries.
Also, piling on after a person was tackled was common. I think it used to be a person was not down, unless he could not get up and keep running.
Basically, having less padding, including helmets will reduce the bone jarring hits that caused brains to rattle around in skulls. You can’t try to lay someone out as easily, if you will feel the impact of the hit too.
* Nobody really knows what teams did that constitutes a flying wedge, other than it was wedge shaped, may have had players interlinking arms, and it caused a lot of injuries.
gene108
@lamh36:
What’s going to pay better: A tell all book or a lifetime of wingnut welfare?
Decisions, decisions….
Mike J
@gene108: I’d like to see a study done on rugby players. I would guess that people who claim it’s much safer would be very surprised.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike J: I believe it comes in between American football and futbol. Not really shocking.
TenguPhule
@Mike J:
Whoever claims that rugby is safer must be drunk out of their minds.
TenguPhule
If you check back in the prior thread, you can play Fascist Bingo with my link of Trump’s Police speech down near the end.
Heavy drinking is encouraged.
NotMax
IIRC, last former general serving as White House chief of staff was Alexander Haig.
Just sayin’.
Booger
@smintheus: I wouldn’t consider early seventies a young age. Oh, wait…
Morzer
@Mike J:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/39630540
Morzer
@Booger:
Hey, some people were just starting their presidential careers at that age!
Jeffro
@efgoldman: Good. I hope there’s a special place in hell for those who prey on the poor, sick, old, and even folks just in a short-term crisis (financial, health, or other).
burnspbesq
I don’t think lacrosse is responsible for my brain damage. I blame law school.
Lapassionara
@Kathleen: Ditto
NotMax
@burnspbesq
Hell, all of us need to be wary of permanent damage from head/desk interaction while Dolt 45 is in office.
randy khan
@TenguPhule:
In major league baseball, there’s been exactly one player who died directly as a result of game play (and he was hit in the head twice during one game, something that never would happen today), and one more who died of complications from surgery to address a game injury. From what I can tell, two minor league players have died from on-field incidents. This is over a period of around 150 years. Somebody did a study on baseball-related deaths, and came up with 850 at all levels over about 110 years, including all the people who had heart attacks and got hit by lightning. For comparison, a study of marathon runners found 28 who died during or soon after running a race over a 10-year period.
JMS
It may not happen right away, but I suspect the “pipeline” is already starting to dry up. Our school district had to pull its varsity team last season because there weren’t enough healthy players (also not enough interested players). From my son’s middle school yearbook, it looked like there were more boys playing soccer than football. The more evidence that comes out, the fewer parents will want their sons to play, etc. It’s hard to believe, given how entrenched football is, but once things start snowballing, it could go faster than people think.
randy khan
@Roger Moore:
One of the enduring mysteries in my life is how the NFL has gotten credit for cracking down on PEDs when PED use actually is remarkably common (and the initial penalties are pretty light) while baseball continues to be criticized about PEDs despite a much more comprehensive program and more onerous penalties.
efgoldman
@Kathleen:
Better, but still sick. I’m getting a full run of dialysis at the center; I’ll start actual training for doing it at home on Monday.
Thanks for asking about mrs efg (and thanks to all you jackals). She’s kind of right on the edge. Spent two weeks getting ready for our annual daughter-hosted BBQ, without my help, and without son-in-law also to help (he was in North Carolina cleaning up the paperwork for his late mother’s “estate”. He had to do it in person). She’s had to reorder her whole life to take care of me, including driving me around. It’s a good thing this part of Summer is basically dead time for us.
Numbers are better. Still weak and short of breath, still very achy in the legs. But I stopped using a cane around the house today.
JPL
@randy khan: You’re correct, but I still remember watching this game, when ‘Conigliaro got hurt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuJRoIAIpJ0
Yarrow
Something to look forward to.
Trying to imagine debt ceiling negotiations where the president refuses to sign whatever Congress passes just because he hates them.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
I understand.
Had a customer who worked at a smallish bank. Loan officer. Nice guy, family. Wells Fargo bought out the bank he worked for. He now had to make pitches to everyone he knew, including me. At least he apologized before he started in. I let him go for about 30 seconds before I stopped him. I asked him why he thought I’d be interested in the crap he was talking about. He said he didn’t but as a person soon to be out of work during a recession, when WF offered to keep him on……….. I saw him a couple more times, he was one miserable human being. But he had to feed and house his family.
That’s how. People do things because what else is there? I’m back working a profession that I started in over 55 yrs ago, not because I want to, because it’s a decent paying job that I have skills that the only other person has where I work is my boss. And he doesn’t understand how I get the results I do out of his machinery about half the time.
efgoldman
@burnspbesq:
I blame rooting for Duke
Yarrow
@efgoldman: Goodness, you have all really been through the wringer. Poor Mrs. efg. I hope now that you’re improving, even if slowly, you guys can get your bearings a little bit. If there is any way to get a little help for a little while–house cleaning, grocery delivery, lawn service–that might be a little help for you both. I wish you continued recovery. The moving away from the cane is good news!
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: Couldn’t have happened to a better party. As sow, so shall you reap.
John Harwood has been one of the better MSM critters, in this entire T saga.
randy khan
@Tripod:
It wasn’t that fight (which I am very happy I did not see), but watching an earlier Mancini fight was what made me stop watching boxing at all. It was one of those fights where neither guy had any interest in defense of any sort and they just were hitting each other nonstop. I got through maybe two rounds, said to myself “why am I watching this?,” changed the channel, and haven’t watched a boxing match (or MMA, for that matter) ever since. For whatever reason, that was the bout that made me realize that boxing was just too cruel to the people who fight.
schrodingers_cat
Ok hive mind, I has a question. I recently became a citizen, besides getting a new passport, registering to vote and changing my status at SSA what else do I need to do.
Thanks.
TenguPhule
@randy khan: I was referring to this, though I am familiar with the head one too.
efgoldman
@Ruckus:
In my former job, I dealt with WF from the back office end. Pretty clear that they had no policies, procedures, or competent people.
NotMax
@efgoldman
Progress is good. Don’t toss it, you have been known to raise cane from time to time.
randy khan
@JPL:
That’s just before I started watching baseball in earnest, but I remember the SI cover story on his recovery. Pretty bad stuff.
p.a.
– Wikipedia
randy khan
@TenguPhule:
If you think about it, it’s kind of amazing that there are so few incidents of that sort in baseball, particularly on balls hit at pitchers. I guess the instinct to put your glove up helps.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Learn to hate the NY Yankees?
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
Put the “wretched refuse” T-shirt into storage.
;)
TenguPhule
@randy khan:
Probably.
I know its rare, but its still scary as fuck.
efgoldman
@randy khan:
One of the few things my dad and I did together was watch the Friday/Saturday night fights on TV. We were watching the night Emile Griffith (an otherwise great boxer) beat Benny Paret to death (he was in a coma for ten days, then died)
StringOnAStick
Is Pop Warner football usually free? Because I’ve been seeing banners touting that here and it seems like that is usually something you paid for for your kid. Could it be they are having trouble filling rosters?
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: I couldn’t care less about the Red Sox, Sox fans are tiresome in the extreme. I still have to paint the red ceiling in the guest bedroom. I just tell people that I am a Yankees fan to see their reaction.
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
Dunno if it is a necessity, but notify the HR department at your employer of the change in status?
efgoldman
@randy khan:
Herb Score of the Cleveland Racists was on his way to a HOF career when he took a line drive from the Yankees’ Gil McDougald flush in the face. He came back, but like Tony C he was never the same and retired.
Rumors at the time (before he was hit) were that Tom Yawkey (Red Sox owner) offered to trade Ted Williams straight up for Score
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat: Did I offend? The Yankees are just that team which everyone seems to love to hate, regardless of whether or not they support the Red Sox.
germy
Times really have changed.
There was a time when a bunch of angry football fans would have left outraged comments on an anti-football blog.
It reminds me that about fifteen years or so ago, if an article or blog appeared that was critical of scientology, a bunch of scientologists would show up and leave angry comments. I don’t really see that anymore.
A sign of progress.
schrodingers_cat
@NotMax: For tax purposes GC holders are treated like citizens, so it shouldn’t really make a difference to them, I think.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Are you registered for jury duty?
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: No you didn’t. I just live in the Sox nation, and their adoration for their home team seems to be a bit over the top. The previous owner’s son had painted the ceiling of his bedroom red to honor the Sox. As I said cray cray.
Anne Laurie
@efgoldman: In case I don’t get around to saying it later, it’s good to see you back here & in fighting form!
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: Do you have to register, I used to get letters for jury duty when I lived in NY. There was a line to tick that you were not a citizen and send it back.
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
Still, if/when the ICE patrol marches in for a green card check, you’d be exempt from round-up if the personnel records are current.
Chet Murthy
@schrodingers_cat: there’s a passport card you might want to get — not useful for international travel, but might come in handy for “papers please” moments. e.g. travel to (spits) texas.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@schrodingers_cat:
You don’t have to love the Red Sox to hate the Yankees.
smintheus
@schrodingers_cat: Is it the current owner of the Bosox who loaned the team plane to George Bush’s CIA to use to fly extraordinary rendition suspects overseas to be tortured?
raven
@germy: I don’t give a fuck what people think. How’s that?
schrodingers_cat
@Chet Murthy: Already done. I got it because I go to Canada, fairly often.
efgoldman
@TenguPhule:
In MA, they pick people at random off, I think, voting rolls. You go in, and serve “one day or one trial” (i.e. if you’re picked at random for a jury pool, and you get seated, you serve for the length of the trial. If not, you go home at the end of the day until the next time).
You don’t register seperately.
schrodingers_cat
@smintheus: I guess I was not clear. Previous owner of the house we bought, last fall. Not previous owner of the Red Sox.
schrodingers_cat
@Steeplejack (tablet): Its the other way around, Red Sox fans annoy me, but I have nothing against the Yankees.
smintheus
@schrodingers_cat: I was just asking, have the Sox been sold in recent years? Because I remember that back around 2002-2003 the Sox jumped on Bush’s torture-the-foreigners bandwagon.
schrodingers_cat
@smintheus: No idea. I don’t follow any sports. Used to follow tennis and cricket once upon a time, but that was a lifetime ago.
ETA: Last time I was in Mumbai, I had an opportunity to go to CCI, and I could not recognize most of the players who were milling about the place. I did get to have dinner with the retired chairman of the selection committee for the national team, who also played for India as a wicket keeper (catcher). So that was kinda cool.
germy
Maybe the NFL can transition from “tackle” football to “touch” football.
Adria McDowell
@Monala: I have an ex-boyfriend who is in a similar situation as your husband. He acknowledges about 7 or 8 concussions in the course of playing Pop Warner to D3. He then went on to develop PTSD after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. Luckily, he’s doing okay right now, but….who knows about the future.
Mnemosyne
@schrodingers_cat:
You may need to fill out a new I-9 with them. You should probably email them and ask.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne: Will do.
Matt McIrvin
@efgoldman: They claim they use a variety of sources, so as not to discourage people from registering to vote for fear of jury duty.
Mnemosyne
@Adria McDowell:
I don’t have a link, but I read that there’s some interesting new research that seems to show that a lot of the combat-related PTSD is tied to concussions and the type of repeated small brain injuries that occur with football. You may want to Google it and have him bring it up with his doctors.
Anne Laurie
@randy khan:
To this outside observer? It looks very much like the people responsible for assessing penalties have decided that football players, under current conditions, can’t play a full season without chemical assistance to keep them numb / juiced enough to stay on the field. Baseball bean-counters are still pretending, honestly or not, that the game doesn’t require that level of insane physical abuse, so the players caught using are “just” doing it for a personal edge, tsk tsk.
Anne Laurie
@raven: Glad to see you’re keeping us (semi) honest, Raven!
Adria McDowell
@Mnemosyne: That wouldn’t surprise me in the least. I’m sure his prior concussions didn’t/don’t help with the PTSD. His PTSD isn’t so bad now that he has to take medication for it (unlike one of my other dear friends- again, Iraq service), but again, who knows how it will be in the future?
Honus
@efgoldman: sorry ef, your dreaming. John Hannah was closer to 270.
NorthLeft12
I am done with football.
I just deleted all my NFL related favourites on my computer. I have been thinking about this for a few years now. This last bit of news pushed me over the top.
My #2 reason? The other NFL/Lions fans i have heard on the radio or interacted with on the internet.
Amir Khalid
@Barbara:
Footballs used in soccer were once made of moisture-absorbing leather rather than the water-repellent synthetic material used today. If you were training/playing in wet conditions, you’d be heading a ball that was well over regulation weight.(410 grams to 450 grams, or 14oz to 16oz.)
Omnes Omnibus
@TenguPhule: You’ve played, have you?
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
OK, this is a joke, really.
I’m not positive of your gender and less so of your age. But if you identify as male and are between 18 and … I dunno the peak age … but some young men still need to register for the draft.
Now you can give me a hard time… but I did bring a couple of young men who probably should have registered, I don’t know if they did, and I never thought of it before now. But there is still a potential draft of young men into the military. Sad as that is in the age of Trump.
Really, I know that you are a female, so irreverent AND irrelevant. But still… ;-)
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: You be you.
Morzer
I just can’t summon the energy or belief to care about football any longer. The price is too high.
schrodingers_cat
@J R in WV: I more than 35 and not a male, so no selective service for me.
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
AS I said, a joke. I’m 66 and (to the military) disabled, but I was so, so eligible in 1970!!!
HelenWheels
@MazeDancer:
I had been a casual ‘if its on in someone’s home, I guess I’ll sit here and watch it” viewer….until I understood the awful damage it can cause. I wonder what the racial representation of the NFL is on the field? I can’t vouch for this site, https://theundefeated.com/features/the-nfls-racial-divide/ but if the data are correct, there could be an argument that the results of these damages adversely impact PoC.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I believe it. My customer confirmed it was true.
Hope you continue to feel better and stronger.
Just
Fuckem
Hope you see this, been on the phone for almost 3 hrs with my cousin.
Ruckus
@germy:
They’ve attracted enough bodies to not need to fend off every snub they get. Besides it makes them look exactly like what they are, a cult.
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
In CA they take your name off the DL rolls. You don’t have to register to vote to be called. Don’t recall if they asked if I was a citizen or not. And now that you can register to vote when you get your DL or ID card and if you move and change your address with the DMV you can register then. Online. And I understand they are talking about automatic voter registration when you get a DL or ID. I think it may have passed already.
lowtechcyclist
@Amaranthine RBG:
That’s why I stopped watching football. I couldn’t see deriving entertainment and pleasure from watching men’s brains get turned into a pulp. Like you say, it’s barbaric.
Now that this is a known thing, I really don’t get how there’s two sides to this anymore. I’m a statistician at a government statistical agency, so my co-workers are smart, educated people. And they still watch football. I don’t get it.
It’s possible to give up the game. I’m old enough to have watched AFL games before the merger; that’s how long I’d been a fan. From sometime in the mid-1960s until about 2012 or 2013, when Ta-Nehisi Coates started writing about CTE. For most of my life, watching the Redskins was what I did on Sunday afternoons, if at all possible.
But I don’t do that anymore. Just can’t.
Matt McIrvin
I’d be surprised if explicit registration for jury duty existed in any state–nobody would do it.
Though Massachusetts’ “one day or one trial” rule reduced a lot of the incentive to weasel out. Also, in Massachusetts everyone who’s summoned gets one free deferral, no questions asked–if you can’t make the date, you just say so and they’ll call you later. But after that one shot you need some kind of actual excuse.
seaninctl
@Mnemosyne: You do realize that MMA has been around for more than 15 years, right? Additionally, the concussion protocols in MMA are far more rigid than anything in the NFL, or even boxing for that matter.
Amanda in the South Bay
Middle aged white guys of all socio economic classes will never give up their CTE ball. Let me head over to LGM for an NFL draft open thread.