Will never forget that Priebus was there for the Muslim ban, which, bc she was a Sudanese citizen, would have kept his mother out of the US
— Dana Houle (@DanaHoule) July 28, 2017
Looks like The Mooch accomplished one last insult — his spectacular flame-out today robbed poor Reince Priebus of the thumb-sucking accolades that would otherwise have filled this evening’s pundit-space. Somehow seems appropriate that, in the end, Priebus couldn’t even make the grade as a Trump victim…
… Trump seriously, Priebus was only one who did because he (mistakenly) thought Trump would be a major donor to rebuild RNC coffers.
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) July 28, 2017
And RNC money helped Trump a lot in 2016. However, most ppl who had been loyal to Priebus has turned on him since he came to WH
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) July 28, 2017
Saddest godsdamned ‘tribute’ I’ve read this month. Tim Mak, at Politico:
… It’s not without irony that some will hold him responsible for Trumpism—Priebus should have kicked Trump out of the GOP debates, some critics suggest—seeing how the RNC chairman would have personally loved to see Scott Walker or Marco Rubio as the party’s nominee. Trump was the last choice of the party establishment, which Priebus embodied. It became clear, however, that Republican voters had other ideas—and Priebus made it his mission to ensure a level playing field. He ignored calls to remove Trump from debates after he threatened to run as an independent, and bent over backward to make the reality TV star feel welcome in the GOP. Priebus knew he would be accused of sabotaging the party, but he was unwavering in the belief that it was his job to be a facilitator and an ambassador, not a kingmaker.
His friends had mixed feelings about the chief of staff position, and some cautioned Priebus against taking it. After all, he had inherited a penniless, disorganized, technologically bankrupt Republican Party in 2011 and transformed it by 2016 into a financial behemoth with adequate field and data operations. On his watch, the GOP had kept the House, taken back the Senate and now won the presidency; why not ride into the sunset, spend time with his family and cash in on those triumphs?
The fateful answer: Because Priebus couldn’t just walk away. He felt a sense of loyalty to Trump, and more acutely, an enduring responsibility to the party and the country. Plus, the second-most prestigious office in the West Wing was beckoning. Priebus jumped at the job…
A coda – Priebus, like Trump, seemed to treat loyalty as if it ran one way. Distanced self from Walsh/Spicer when they took on water.
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) July 29, 2017
Frankly this humiliation is an appropriate end for Priebus, who was a key figure facilitating Trump's rise.
— Jamelle Bouie (@jbouie) July 28, 2017
germy
“That was your first mistake, you took your lucky break and broke it in two”
– Paul McCartney, Too Many People
Major Major Major Major
Damn, and here I was hoping he had died.
oldgold
Check this out: pbs.twimg.com/ media/DGGvR8XVwAAxtio.jpg
Suzanne
I hope none of these people who get voted off the island are ever able to work again. Maybe at the gas station. That would be OK.
A Ghost to Most
Rump and his minions are a symptom; conservatism (revanchism) is the disease
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I always wondered why they shitcanned Steele, who thinks Priebus stabbed him in the back
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
Yeah. Then his name could have been Rancid Reince.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: It still can be! The power was in us the whole time!
lamh36
I’m off to bed, but just wanted to share a very interesting video clip from CNN Money, on African American, 1%-er.
Very interesting…
Sheila Johnson, discussing discrimination as an African American, even being a “one percenter”
“If you are a person of color, it doesn’t matter how much money you own…you are still who you are..”
very short clip, I would love to see an entire hour or so devoted to the topic
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
When Madge Haberman is throwing you to the wolves…
I say either Fallon or Matthew Broderick play him in the series adaptation.
Also: Has anyone found it really fucking odd that R. Kelly’s career is pretty much unkillable? The Tyson Zone didn’t protect MJ’s reputation, and I though for sure that “Trapped In The Closet” would’ve rendered him a permanent laughingstock.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major:
What kind of name is Reince anyway? How is it pronounced?
Omnes Omnibus
I am looking into a bar grievance that I can file about him.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Suzanne: Or “scrubbing the web of illegal content, on slave wage.”
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I think it’s a nickname for Reinhold.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Short for “Reinhold.” It’s previously been remarked how it’s a far less ridiculous name than “Reince.”
Major Major Major Major
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): He can’t have taste, he’s a Republican.
Jeffro
Jeff Flake launching a major broadside tonight…
Omnes Omnibus
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Could you translate that into English?
Omnes Omnibus
@Jeffro: How will he vote in the future?
Major Major Major Major
@Jeffro: Yeah, looks like the 2018 crowd is starting to triangulate away from Trump.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
newshounds.us/fox_guest_praises_john_kelly_appt_you_need_dictator_white_house_073117
Guest Praises John Kelly Appt: ‘You Need A Dictator In The White House’
NotMax
@Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe)
Old Low German for sniveling toady.
:)
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: It’s short for Reinhold. It’s pronounced Reynz
GregB
When dealing with Trump and evryone in his orbit, America needs to internalize the Otter Maxim from Animal House:
“You fucked-up. You trusted us.”
eemom
Don’t really like Molly Ball, but she does have a pretty spot on account of The Rise and Fall of Who-the-fuck-calls-themself “Reince Priebus”.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Omnes Omnibus: 1) Haberman’s “Fuckem” regarding Priebus is unusually strong given her relentless BOFFSIDErism;
2) [fantasy casting for TV series adaptation of Trump White House];
3) Michael Jackson being a living, preposterous meme didn’t keep his career from being killed. How does R. Kelly’s stay intact, even with the “you know he’s a pedophile” issue resurfacing biennially?
*Postscript: The “Requiem@ in the post title has one @u.”
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Major Major Major Major: @Major Major Major Major: @Adam L Silverman:
Reinhold definitely would be better to go by. I always thought it was pronounced “Rinse”.
Kay
Why do conservatives always say it’s socialized “health care”? They must know the difference. They must know the US has a solidly private sector health care delivery system. The only thing we ever debate is payment systems.
It’s like they live in some imaginary country. Medicare’s been around forever. When do you think they’ll get it? Half the people who say this are ON Medicare. Do they think they go to government doctors?
eemom
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
In the article linked above, Steele is quoted as gloating “Karma’s a bitch.”
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: More “eye” sounding.
Mnemosyne
Given what we now know about Russia’s long-term strategy in the US, my assumption is that Priebus’s sudden financial success with the RNC is no coincidence and he’s just as neck-deep in the Russian muddy as Trump himself is.
Kay
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Oh, God. They don’t even seem to realize they’re saying the Chief Executive can’t do his job. This passive voice they use to somehow separate Donald Trump from the Trump White House is just not gonna cut it for much longer.
If they’re casting around for someone to save the President then they picked the wrong President. He can’t need saving.
Omnes Omnibus
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD): Maybe you should try speaking English from the get go. Not all of us have read your graphic novels. I get now that they feature in your views. Fuck us?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
Eh, who really cares. He’s a sniveling dweeb who got what he deserves for facilitating Trump’s rise to wannabe dictator of the United States.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Kay:
They’re probably hoping Kelly will be able to successfully manipulate Trump and become de facto leader of the US. It might just happen.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Omnes Omnibus: Now who’s not speaking English?
NotMax
@Kay
Textbook case of Grand Vizier-itis.
Suzanne
@Jeffro: …..and yet, Flake will just gently shake his head, with a grave expression on his face, speak softly……and do everything Trump wants.
Omnes Omnibus
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I may need to take a break from this place.
Kay
So that’s a flat denial. Someone is lying. My money’s on Trump lying versus the unnamed people in that piece, but that’s just me.
Barbara
@Jeffro: Jeff Flake has only words. He voted yes to all three ACA repeal bills. He and Ben Sasse are the nouveau poseurs of the Republican party, pretending to have a conscience and independence of thought that they never back up with action.
efgoldman
@Suzanne:
Somebody’s got to take Suzy Q Collins’ place as the “Republiklown with doubts and concerns” when she leaves to run for governor of Maine.
Yes, in spite of her vote holding fast on repeal, I am just that cynical.
ETA: Or what Barbara said
hellslittlestangel
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Oh, don’t be ridic — never mind.
And by the way, I thought at first you were referring to R Kelly.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m mostly joking. I don’t really think Kelly has those kind of ambitions despite my initial feelings. I just think that types who wish Trump was a dictator and other Repubs who know Trump is paralyzingly incompetent would like to see Kelly take control; to stop the death spiral this admin is in.
Chris
Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.
Mike J
Cheryl brought up this story in the previous thread, but I prefer the wording here:
Cheryl Rofer
@Mike J: There’s apparently a treasure trove of laughs in that story. Scaramucci argued with the hacker, who pretended to be Priebus.
Good thing the Republicans learned from all those hearings on Hillary’s emails.
Chris
@Kay:
They do.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Chris:
It’s called Eagleland
Jim, Foolish Literalist
on Flake:
I don’t know how such a bill would work, constitutionally. I’ll repeat, letting it be known that the Intelligence Cttee has his tax returns would be the way to send a shot across trump’s bow
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Dara Lind noted in Vox today that Kelly is basically the face of competent Trumpism. I want to pee in his food.
What the hell have McMaster & Mattis been doing for the past few months?
Eric U.
If Kelly gets any notice for turning things around, Trump will fire him for upstaging Trump. I figure we’re safe on that front
Frankensteinbeck
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
If Kelly really does take charge, Trump will fire him, and do it in the most cowardly way imaginable.
EDIT – What @Eric U. said.
SiubhanDuinne
@Suzanne:
Most of them would fuck up being squeegee guys.
Yarrow
The money came from Russia. Traitors, all of them.
Chris
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Type 2!
Mnemosyne
@Mike J:
OT, but I’m thinking of going to the annual Tall Ships festival in September in Orange County. If I’ve never been on one before and am potentially prone to seasickness, is it worth paying $70 to go for a sail on one of the ships?
ETA linky
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Chris:
But they really think it’s Type 1. They’re wrong.
danielx
@Eric U.:
That will happen to any one of Trump’s lackeys who exhibit more competence than the boss, which doesn’t require much.
Mike J
@Mnemosyne: I think it would be cool, but I’ve never done it. I’ve never been on the tourist sailboats, and friends of mine have been allowed to drive them. One of them came second in Swiftsure this year.
I’d really like to get back to Newport to go on a 12m
Chris
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
So they’re living in a fictional version of a fictional version of a real country.
frosty
@Mnemosyne: I think it worth $70 for a unique experience. I can’t advise you on the seasickness. I’ve been on a skipjack, which is much smaller, and there wasn’t much unsettling movement. My guess is that the motion would depend on the weather, the wind, and the waves as much as anything. People get seasick on ocean liners, for example.
Suzanne
Spawn cut herself again.
God, I hate this. I am freaking out. I feel like life will never be okay ever again.
Mike J
@frosty: Most likely she’ll be remaining on deck. Seasickness is more likely/worse intensity when you’re below and can’t see the horizon. Get up on the deck and get some fresh air (and if you need to be sick, you won’t make the cabin smell).
Mnemosyne
@Mike J:
@frosty:
I’m debating. I can definitely call it research. I did get sick on a whale-watching cruise, but that was partly because I lost my sunglasses halfway through and ended up with a migraine from the glare. I would be more careful this time. ?
Cheryl Rofer
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
Can I ask — did she tell you, or did you find out another way?
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
Most people would
hurljump at the chance — I say go for it!Just make sure you stay near the railing, and that G holds onto your tether tightly enough.
ETA: Almost forgot: try looking through the windshield, even if you’re in the back seat. That should help reduce the nausea.
Suzanne
@Mnemosyne: I saw her wrist, she didn’t tell me. It wasn’t hidden.
Cheryl Rofer
Okay, g’night y’all.
I see more concern about that DOE article. I’ll try to focus enough to finish my post on it tomorrow.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
I sometimes comment at my local paper. Here’s a supposed English teacher and debate instructor:
Him:
Me:
Him:
Me:
Yarrow
@Suzanne: I’m so sorry. That must be so hard for you and her.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Chris:
Yup.
Suzanne
@Yarrow: I don’t know what to do. She’s in therapy, she’s been developing new friends, we’ve been spending lots of time with her. She wants to go live with her dad, who is unstable AF and wants to outsource all the care to his GF. I cannot possibly hate my life more than I do right now.
Yarrow
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: This person is a moron. Both Clinton and Nixon were charged with obstruction of justice. Here’s a link.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Suzanne: Sorry you’re going through this. I wish there was some advice I could give you but I haven’t had kids yet. I hope things get better.
SFAW
@Suzanne:
Understandable.
I don’t know if it will help, but: my daughter had an episode of that when she was in her early teens. I don’t think she was determined to harm herself — although we didn’t really know it at the time — and it took some work on our part (therapy for and with her), but she has turned out pretty much OK. She graduated cum laude, she’ll be going for her Master’s degree in a year (after taking this year off to save up tuition money).
I am hopeful that your daughter is just going through some temporary turmoil, and will keep my fingers crossed that you and she will be A-OK.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
Hm. That makes me think that she wanted you to notice and talk to her about it, but you should probably wait until you are able to have a calm discussion. I would be freaking out, too, but that’s not the time to have the talk you need to have.
Also, if you’re not currently in joint family therapy with her, plus a separate counselor for each of you, get that set up ASAP. You need a team of professionals to help the two of you work this out.
Last thing: it sounds like the people you’ve been working with are on top of it, but has she been tested for the full range of learning disabilities? Junior high is when smart kids with stuff like ADHD and/or dyslexia can start to melt down, because their previous coping strategies aren’t working anymore.
Yarrow
@Suzanne: Do you have a counselor or therapist you see as well? That person might help give you some ideas and approaches. You have to take care of yourself first so you can best take care of her.
I know you’ve mentioned that she wants to live with her dad. Maybe letting her do that on a trial basis would be something to consider? She has to meet certain criteria to be able to stay there, or something like that. I know he’s awful and you don’t want to do that. Again, maybe a professional could help guide you as to best options.
I’m really sorry. I sounds really awful.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yarrow:
Thanks for that! I added it to the comment. I had to make a new one because disqus marked it as spam.
Barbara
@Suzanne: I am so sorry. I have known some people who cut themselves and there is a certain logic at work for why they can only express pain by turning it inwards on themselves through cutting. I hope things turn around for your daughter.
Yarrow
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: You’re welcome. I doubt that idiot will care about facts, though. Sounds like he’s got his talking points and nothing will deter him.
Anne Laurie
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
IIRC, his mother called him Reintzie, because that’s how German names get abbreviated (like Fritzie or Maxie). When he was in elementary school, he dropped the “-ie”, and apparently “Reintz” turned into “Reince” somewhere along the way.
Look, with a surname like ‘Priebus’, a kid does what he can…
Suzanne
@Mnemosyne: She has ADHD. We’ve done a session of family therapy, and I’ve gone to the therapist on my own. Therapist says it is all about friend stuff, she’s not suicidal. Sometimes, she’s so funny and cool. Then other times she’s so closed off and it’s awful. I hate it so much.
@SFAW: She’s been doing this off and on for a year and a half. I’m terrified that this is her coping strategy now. Thirteen is a horrible age for anyone, but this is ridiculous. I am miserable.
mai naem mobile
@Mnemosyne: the link has a 2 hr escort cruise for $50 which doesn’t sound bad. I would do it and take some seasickness meds or remedy along but I like ships and boats.
Turgidson
@Kay:
Right-wing hacks always need to find a way to convince themselves that, no matter how utterly batshit their party and “intellectual” leadership has gotten, those idiot libtards and the Democrat Party are worse. Always. So they find ways to completely mischaracterize things “liberals” do, say, and believe, in order to cling to their deeply believed fiction.
Amir Khalid
I’m pessimistic about this General Kelly person’s chances of lasting long in this White House. Kelly is probably already wishing he could fire Donald Trump for incompetence and indiscipline. Sooner or later The General of Discipline is going to have a major run-in with The President of Chaos, and we already know who’s bigger.
On a happier note, the guitar callouses on the fingertips of my left hand are developing nicely.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yarrow:
BTW, does the president have the right and power to end any investigation they want? That doesn’t sound right.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
If you can stand to read this, this is an essay by an adult cutter who is in recovery. It’s very, very common for people with OCD to also be cutters as a coping mechanism. She is trying to get her stress and anxiety under control, and cutting is a shortcut to that. As the author of that essay says, she needed alternative ways to vent her stress and anxiety, but it was never going to go away fully because of the OCD.
Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD)
@Amir Khalid: fuckem
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
Guess your safecracking days are behind you now.
;)
mai naem mobile
@Suzanne: maybe it’s got something to do with the new school year being right around the corner and her stress level is higher??? Sorry, I am not much help except to go back for more therapy.
Millard Filmore
@Yarrow:
I do not know the right incantation to have Google answer this on the first page, but is the RNC a corporation, enjoying all the privileges and protections given to corporations?
Which leads into my real question: can Trump pardon corporations? Can he pardon RNC, Inc? Will the RNC still have legal exposure even if its personnel are all pardoned?
I have visions of the RNC going bankrupt fighting state level criminal and civil lawsuits, and the DNC buying up the name and trademarks at an auction.
Mnemosyne
@mai naem mobile:
The escort cruise is on a motorboat — I want to go on the actual sailing ship!
I’ll probably just load up on Dramamine and ginger candy, strap my sunglasses to my head, and take the risk.
Suzanne
@mai naem mobile: I think that’s part of it. She wants to spend more time at her dad’s, too, but I think that is a bad idea until he gets his shit together.
I don’t know why she hates me so much.
Yarrow
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: No, that’s not right either. That’s part of the issue around firing Mueller, is Trump thinks he can just end the investigation that way. He can’t. If he can get the AG to fire Mueller, he thinks it’ll go away but it won’t. Ending an investigation would be obstruction of justice, so it circles back nicely.
There are questions about the limits of the presidential pardon, but that’s a separate issue.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
Since she has ADHD, can her regular therapist recommend an ADHD coach? A coach is someone who will help her with things like staying on track with homework, making a plan for the school year, etc. and meet with every week or every couple of weeks during the school year. A coach works specifically on all of the practical stuff that will help her with the executive function issues that go along with ADHD, while the therapist helps with the psychological issues.
ADHD and OCD can be co-morbid, so get that checked out if you can.
NotMax
@Mnemosyne
Dramamine can cause drowsiness. Might want to go with Bonine. comparative info
Mike J
@Mnemosyne: At least they won’t send you up to the t’gallants.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Yarrow:
It seems like being able to end an investigation without any check on that power is just asking to be abused by the president to help out his friends.
Yarrow
@Millard Filmore: I don’t know the answers to those questions, but I have a feeling we’re all going to be learning what they are. I anticipate a lot of legal discussions about said issues.
ruemara
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: No. They most certainly cannot subvert the law.
The Moar You Know
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I hear the idiot brigade spouting this one all the time. It’s not like you can tell them anything, but if you did as the dirtbag above alleges, you wouldn’t go to prison for ten years. You wouldn’t go to prison at all. It’s not a criminal offense, as i found out when working my first and hopefully last digital forensics case (the legal system doesn’t understand technology and does not want to. At all.) It is a sanctionable offense, meaning that if you go to trial for a criminal offense, a judge can handicap your case to a certain degree. Or not. It’s up to them. But the deletion itself, even for items under subpoena, is not in any way a crime in and of itself.
You can argue it should be. But it’s never has been nor is it now.
Amir Khalid
@Butthurt Jordan Trombone (fka XTPD):
This cannot possibly be true. Trumpism’s second tenet is “disdain competence”*
*The first tenet: “take everything that’s not nailed down, and bring a claw hammer to pry the nails out of everything else”
Yarrow
@Suzanne:
She doesn’t. She’s testing limits, as all kids her age will, and you are providing firm limits to protect her safety and well being. She is chafing at some of the limits.
What does your ex think about her living with him and is that even allowed by the court? Just because she wants something doesn’t mean it’s feasible or even allowed to happen.
Anne Laurie
@Suzanne:
C’mon, that’s the Spawn’s line!
I’m sorry you’re both going through this — adolescence is a bitch, even in the most even-keeled families. But if you saw her wrist, at least she didn’t *not* want you to know what she was doing; that’s communication, of a sort. Which is good!
As others have already said, if you can talk to a therapist — at least her therapist — that would be a first step. If she’s really determined to go live with her father, it might be best to start making concrete plans for such a move: Where would she sleep, how would she get to school / other activities, when would it happen, etc. etc. Because I want to not be here where I’m miserable this very minute is not the same as I don’t want to live with my mother/stepfather/baby sister any more … maybe she just needs to walk through all the steps & sort out the difference for herself. (Especially if she’s inherited your analytical style!)
SFAW
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Article IX, Section 2 of the Constitution allows that, but only if the President is Republican.
mai naem mobile
I cannot stand Flake and I think he’s a conservative ideologue pretending to be a moderate sensible GOPr. At the same time, he probably sees his party with him going down in a wave election next year and sees kicking out Dolt45 as a solution. Flake also is a Mormon as is Jon Huntsman who is taking on the RusSian ambassador job. It’s possible Huntsman has found out more about Dolt45 and Russia and passed it onto Flake. Hatch may be considered too old to pull it off. Just a theory.
Mnemosyne
@Anne Laurie:
Good point. Painful as it is, sometimes you have to let your kid make her own mistakes.
mai naem mobile
@Suzanne: she does not hate you. Thats just teenage crap. I kind of feel you should let her stay at her dad’s for a week because my gut feeling is that she’s going to figure out its not the fantasy she’s imagining. I’ve had two divorced friends who’ve gone through similar stuff minus the cutting. Both times the kids ran back because the grass was definitely not greener on the other side.
james parente
@SFAW: If you are thinking of a multi-day cruise, I can recommend Transderm Scope. It works very well, even in the worst weather. Ask your Doctor.
I mean Canyons East of Montauk Tuna Fishing in October/November type of snotty/rough conditions.
hitchhiker
@Suzanne:
I’m so sorry. In case it helps, I’ll tell you that I’m close to three different women whose daughters all did this. They were all horrified and rigid with fear and pissed off and just confounded.
All three of the girls got past it. One works at a fancy job in DC, one is doing well at university, and the third is a happy vet tech. The thing they had in common? Excellent moms. I’m talking truly savvy, determined, hilarious women.
Hang in.
Yarrow
@Mnemosyne: @mai naem mobile: I agree. She may need to stay with him to see what it’s like and that it’s not the fantasy world she has in her head.
Suzanne
@Yarrow: My ex wants to have her more, which I am ostensibly okay with, except for he is a mess. Behind on child support by thousands of dollars, can’t maintain a job or a relationship (the breakup of his last relationship spurred this whole mess), has never involved himself in any of her education or healthcare, hands her off to me when he can’t handle it……and all the actual parenting would be done by his girlfriend. He is hugely irresponsible and actually is one of those people who chooses not to work so he can live off public benefits. So while I would love to have an equal parenting partner…..I do not.
SFAW
@james parente:
Tell Mnemosyne, not me — she’s the one with the delicate constitution.
I don’t get seasick until about sea state 8 or 9. (Or so I wish. My water travels are pretty much limited to rowing on the pond, or riding in a friend’s pontoon boat. I think that puts it at sea state negative-2.)
Anne Laurie
@Mnemosyne: If you assume you’ll probably get seasick, would you still want to go?
Of course, you may well not get sick — depending on the day, the wind, your own constitution on the day. There are precautions you can take (sunglasses, SeaBands, Bonine/Dramamine, etc.) But the bottom line, for me, would be whether the “research” would be worth $70 and your time even if you ended up getting sick. Is it something you *want* to do, or just “an opportunity one should not miss”? How does G feel about it — is it something he’d enjoy, with or without you (possibly barfing on him)?
Suzanne
@hitchhiker: I am not an excellent mom. I am barely passable these days.
@mai naem mobile: She has stayed at her dad’s for that amount of time. She loves it, because girlfriend is fun and dad lets her do whatever she wants (comes home with purple hair). But when she had an anxiety attack at school, who does she call. Mom. When she wants something, who does she ask? Mom. I fucking hate it.
Mnemosyne
@Anne Laurie:
It’s something I’ve wanted to do for years so, yeah, I would probably do it even at a high risk of getting seasick (and the risk isn’t that high with proper precautions). G isn’t interested, so I would be getting seasick alone, but I’m okay with that — that’s what happened on the whale watching cruise, too, since he had bronchitis and couldn’t go. In fact, I would probably feel guilty if he came along and I got seasick because I would feel like I was ruining it for him.
I was mostly curious to find out if it was bogus in some way I wasn’t foreseeing, and I figured certified sailing instructor MikeJ would be the person most likely to know!
scav
@Suzanne: if she calls on you consistently for serious things, a) you’re doing a fine job and b) at an operational level, she knows it (whatever she says). That doesn’t make necessarily make it easier to cope with.
Amir Khalid
@Suzanne:
You’re probably better at it than you know.
Major Major Major Major
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: I figured out your problem, you’re commenting somewhere other than here.
@Suzanne: Sorry to hear about all that; afraid I don’t have much to add other than good vibes.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
Yeah, those are the tough years, and you would be going through something similar even if Spawn didn’t have the other issues. She wants to branch out and do new stuff and be independent, but she also wants to know that she has a safe harbor when she needs one. That means that the safe harbor gets the short end of the stick, though.
Crazy thought: could you talk things over with your ex’s girlfriend and see if the two of you can come to some kind of co-parenting … thing? If I remember being a 13-year-old correctly, it was helpful to have a non-mom adult female around to talk to. In my case, I had aunts and much older cousins.
Batten Down the Hatches
@Mnemosyne:
If I may butt in here: sounds like an awesome festival. The battle sails might make you sick, but the sunset sails are usually more sedate. Consider the Bill of Rights or Californian… fast ships but not too roll-y. God, BoR. Such an amazing boat. /former tall ship sailor
Anne Laurie
@Suzanne:
Well, the Spawn may have to establish this for herself, using her own process. The good news is, she’s thirteen, not six. Checking with her therapist would be step one, but if they agree, then you & her (& him, if you’re willing to pretend he’ll help) work out the details together. Somewhere along that process, she may well change her mind, realize it’s more about not-being-where-she-is-now than being-somewhere-different.
Or she may decide she *has* to go through with it, because sometimes adolescents do that. (Ergo: Joan of Arc, who was 14 when ‘God’s angels instructed her’, 15 when she took over the French army, and 18 or 19 when she was burned at the stake.) At which point you make sure, along with everything else, that she’s got an emergency cell phone and a bug-out bag, along with your guarantee that you will show up to rescue her, even if it’s a really inconvenient time and you’ve just had a giant screaming fight…
Mnemosyne
@Batten Down the Hatches:
The Bill of Rights is the ship I was 90 percent decided on, so I appreciate the recommendation! I’m looking at the sunset cruise on Saturday, not the battle cruise (hopefully I’m reading the schedule correctly).
No One You Know
@Mnemosyne: @Suzanne:
Really like Mnemosyne’s input, here.
As I have both conditions,I can suggest that you look very capable to her. An example she can’t live up to. But I suspect it’s more likely to be that you’re closest, you’re available…
And, speaking about myself, I hated how much like my mother I was, from looks to some personality things, and it started with self-hatred.
The whole executive function thing is a misery, on top of standard teen stuff. Undiagnosed endometriosis didn’t help…Just one more thing to dread and hate about life.
Wish I could make this better for you both. The ability to just accept yourself as you are might provide some relief?
Finally:
This, too, shall pass.
Hugs.
Suzanne
@Mnemosyne: The girlfriend would likely be willing, but I don’t think she’ll stay around long. My ex has a pattern of serial monogamy and the breakups have been very disruptive. So I am wary of the impermanence factor.
Batten Down the Hatches
@Mnemosyne: the sunset sail looks like it’s on Friday afternoon/evening. Probably your best bet for avoiding seasickness. From what I remember of Bill, she is fast and smooth, not a bouncy boat… And keep in mind that sailing, working with (rather than against)
wind and water makes for a much easier trip than whale watching. You might not need dramamine at all!
If you do go, please report back so the rest of us can feel twinges of jealousy.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
The impermanence factor is why I was thinking it might be best to talk to the GF directly — she doesn’t have to break up with your Spawn just because she breaks up with your ex, but you would probably need to have that conversation with her.
Also, I think AL has some really good and practical advice here about the whole living with dad aspect.
Mnemosyne
@Batten Down the Hatches:
I think I may be stuck with the cannon battle cruise based on my schedule, but I’m okay with that — I’ve been reading Six Frigates, about the founding of the US Navy, so it will be interesting to see some of that acted out. If I get sick despite the medication and wrist band, so be it.
And if you say that Bill is a good ship, I’ll take your word for it. It’s funny how there’s always someone with direct experience of a subject on this website no matter what that subject is! ?⛵️
Suzanne
@Mnemosyne: I have told her that I am okay with 50/50, but I need to tell my ex that he needs to be far more participatory (and much less abusive to me) for that to work. He is a high school dropout and a massive fuckup, and I do not want her to see that as a valid life path.
Batten Down the Hatches
@Mnemosyne: one might think that the battle-sailing-enjoyment vs potential-sea-sickness of various West coast tall ships might be an obscure topics bridge too far even for the Juicers here but apparently no, no it is not. We are an interesting bunch.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
She calls because she knows who takes care of her. You unfortunately have to be both the good and bad cop because your ex refuses to be either. But she calls about the important stuff. That’s huge. And good.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: I am NOT a ship.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
I didn’t care about dancing but sailing? Sounds great. I even owned a sailboat. Not near as big as the tall ships but big enough. I’ve been on USS Ironsides, but only tied up at dock.
Mnemosyne
@Suzanne:
As Anne Laurie has been saying, the best way to get that message through to your Spawn is actually to let her spend more time with him. If he is the way you say he is (and I don’t doubt you at all), she’ll figure out on her own that she doesn’t want to be like him.
Perfectionism is a big problem for ADHDers, so you’re probably going to need to help her find a middle ground between Overachieving Mom and Fuckup Dad. The perverse flip side of perfectionism is that it can make you decide to fail, or not even try, if you can’t do something perfectly.
Mnemosyne
@Ruckus:
If you still have my email address and want to carpool, let me know. The actual sailing is fairly expensive ($70) but regular admission that lets you check out the various ships in dock is a lot cheaper (I think $14).
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Got to sleep for work tomorrow but if you need a second, I’m on board. Just in case you didn’t get that up above.
Let me know tomorrow on BJ or get my email from an FP. Unless you have it already, not sure of that.
SgrAstar
@Suzanne: I am so sorry to hear about your daughter. We dealt with this in our family- extraordinarily difficult. Have you thought about sending her to NOLS? With the support of her therapist, we sent our troubled teen on a month-long NOLS trip and the results were incredible. It is expensive, but in this case was very worth it. I hope you have a solid support system, Suzanne, for your own wellbeing.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
$70 is OK and not a bad price. I don’t think I have your email. I have someone else’s we both know but that won’t help. The date looks good for me, carpool is fine. I’d probably prefer not the cannon battle but I have lots of ear plugs.
Ruckus
@Mnemosyne:
Very good point on the perfection thing. I was raised to do that and it took me a while to realize that perfection is not only overrated, it’s impossible. I learned to be perfect enough. That doesn’t mean you fuck off all the time, it means you learn to do your best but not to beat yourself up about things you can’t do anything about. It may help that I work with very close tolerances but that everything has room to be one way or the other. Strive for perfect, accept that it’s OK to be less than or to even fail.
Failure is how you learn. Especially without getting a big, bloated head.
SFAW
@Major Major Major Major:
What’s even weirder is that Goku sometimes has TenguPhule act as a stand-in, when the alleged “English teacher” get really bad.
Booger
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: familial diminutive of Reinhold, his legal name.
pluky
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: it’s a nickname for Rhinehold.
The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@Suzanne: Don’t know the details of your story, and only a fool would offer specific advice in a situation where so few specifics are known, but for what it’s worth: I assume you have her in some form of counseling. This can take time to be effective, especially since it sometimes takes a long time to find the right counselor and structure for effective intervention. But as someone who’s spent more than two decades in the front lines of adolescent mental health care, I can tell you that a lot of kids who engage in this behavior come out the other side as healthy, functional adults. It’s NOT always going to be like this. In the meantime, however, don’t forget that you need support to deal with this as much as she does. You have to take care of yourself, if you’re going to be there for her.
TenguPhule
@SFAW:
what.
Say that again, in english please.