• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Since we are repeating ourselves, let me just say fuck that.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

Republicans cannot even be trusted with their own money.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Mobile Menu

  • Seattle Meet-up Post
  • 2025 Activism
  • Targeted Political Fundraising
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2025 Activism
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / After 20 years, he still grieves

After 20 years, he still grieves

by DougJ|  August 7, 20174:22 pm| 138 Comments

This post is in: Assholes

FacebookTweetEmail

I thought that the impeachment of Bill Clinton was ridiculous. And I’ll go one step further: if the worst thing that Mueller finds on Trump is that Trump lied about an affair before a civil jury, then I don’t think Trump should be impeached either.

That’s why it’s strange to me that Ken Starr, who prosecuted Clinton, and Jonathan Turley, who testified in favor of impeaching Clinton, are leading the charge against Robert Mueller. If we use the standard they used for the impeachment of Clinton, then probably Trump should be impeached. If we use a more reasonable standard, then, well, I don’t know. It’s early to say, but given how much he’s lied about contact with Russia already, it’s likely that he’ll also lie, or already has lied, about it under oath. Whether those lies merit impeachment, or whether there are other issues beyond those lies, I can’t say yet.

It’s worth nothing noting that a higher percentage of the population supports impeaching Trump (PPP and Monmouth put it in the low-to-mid 40s) than supported impeaching Clinton (Gallup and NYT had it in the mid 30s).

There’s one more funny parallel I’d like to mention between the two impeachment cases. As Clinton’s impeachment case unfolded, it’s fair to say that the public generally opposed impeachment while the media generally favored it. Yet we never heard much about how it was bad to anger the public by impeaching an elected president. Now, we’re told again and again that even if Trump committed impeachable offenses, and even if a majority of the public approves of impeaching Trump, there’s still a danger in impeaching Trump because it will upset his base.

The reasoning is that Trump’s base supposedly consists largely of disillusioned members of the white working-class who haven’t gotten a fair shake in our economy. Gee, I wonder if there was a group of people who loved Bill Clinton and had every fight to feel disillusioned about how they had been treated historically in this country? But aside from the New Yorker article I linked to there, I never once heard that as an argument against impeaching Clinton.

If I were a Trumpite, I’d try to keep comparisons to Clinton’s impeachment to a minimum. But I hope that Starr and Turley are so broken up about the one that got away that they spend as much time on tv as they can, to remind viewers of what happened twenty years ago.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Interviewed By a Warmonger!
Next Post: Just Use Four Words »

Reader Interactions

138Comments

  1. 1.

    germy

    August 7, 2017 at 4:26 pm

    I love how Tom Toles can capture the essence of a person with just a few lines.

    Shouldn’t we be investigating Ken Starr?

  2. 2.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    August 7, 2017 at 4:26 pm

    They’re a bunch of fucking hypocritical Republicans. But I repeat myself.

  3. 3.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 4:32 pm

    Nothing surprises me about Starr or Turley. One is a religious fanatic and nutty partisan (also, I’m pretty sure a pervert, but that’s not cromulent here), the other a precious, preening contrarian.

    It’s early to say

    Not a lawyer, but somebody would have to convince me that firing Comey wasn’t obstruction of justice (he said it flat out) and the “tapes” tweet was an attempt at witness intimidation.

  4. 4.

    Steeplejack (phone)

    August 7, 2017 at 4:35 pm

    @Doug!:

    It’s worth nothing that higher percentage of the population supports impeaching Trump [. . .].

    “Noting,” surely?

  5. 5.

    allium

    August 7, 2017 at 4:37 pm

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: There’s that liberal echo chamber again. /s

  6. 6.

    efgoldman

    August 7, 2017 at 4:38 pm

    Newtnik and his gang were going to impeach Clinton over something, they didn’t care what. His and HRC’s finances turned out to be above board, so they couldn’t tag him for that. Asshole Bible Banger Ken Starr searched and searched under every rock until he found Monica.
    I think it’s a reasonable assumption that Tangerine Torquemada and his merry clan have engaged, and probably are still engaging in, financial irregularities and criminal fraud in massive ways. I’ve predicted from the beginning that money laundering for foreign entities (specifically Russian interests) will be his downfall.
    Couldn’t hapen to a more deserving snake.

  7. 7.

    Roger Moore

    August 7, 2017 at 4:38 pm

    And I’ll go one step further: if the worst thing that Mueller finds on Trump is that Trump lied about an affair before a civil jury, then I don’t think Trump should be impeached either.

    It seems pretty clear they have him dead to rights for obstruction of justice. It’s also worth considering why somebody with pardon power would obstruct justice to protect an underling. If his goal is to protect them, he could just pardon them if they’re found guilty of anything. It seems far more likely he’s doing it to protect his own sorry ass from whatever they might reveal in a thorough investigation.

  8. 8.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 4:39 pm

    since the post is categories “Assholes”, this is on topic

    John HarwoodVerified account @ JohnJHarwood
    inbox: “Kayleigh McEnany Named RNC Spokesperson”

    Carlos Maza‏Verified account @ gaywonk 2h2 hours ago
    Thanks to CNN, a virtual nobody and habitual liar is now the RNC spokesperson. This is why you don’t legitimize bad actors.

    Andrew Lawrence Retweeted Kayleigh McEnany
    Hey @ JeffFlake, the new RNC spokeswoman is a birther, just FYI
    Kayleigh McEnanyVerified account
    birth certificates and college transcripts #ThingsThatEnrageDemocrats

    just saw Lonesome Jeff sad-facing about how Republicans didn’t stand up to birtherism, and now Rhona Romney McDaniel, from the sane sober establishment, has hired this racist clown
    ETA: Like uncle, like niece. Willard embraced trump because of birtherism.

  9. 9.

    The Moar You Know

    August 7, 2017 at 4:39 pm

    I don’t know about Starr (truth is I thought he was dead, and news of his aliveness is a bit of a shock) but Turley, of whom I was once an active reader/commenter, became an unhinged lunatic after Obama was elected. Any attempt to prosecute Trump he’s going to see as the Obama folks trying to wreak revenge on Trump for destroying Obama’s legacy.

  10. 10.

    Iowa Old Lady

    August 7, 2017 at 4:42 pm

    I was around for both the Nixon and the Clinton impeachments. The difference I saw was that the congressional hearing had convinced a big portion of the country that Nixon was guilty. In contrast, most people I knew rolled their eyes at the Clinton impeachment. They saw it as a way to undo an election. Mind you, they thought Clinton was a horndog. They just didn’t believe that had anything to do with governing the country.

    For that reason, I’d like to see us approach any impeachment of Trump slowly. Give people time to absorb any findings.

  11. 11.

    TriassicSands

    August 7, 2017 at 4:44 pm

    …if the worst thing that Mueller finds on Trump is that Trump lied about an affair before a civil jury, then I don’t think Trump should be impeached either.

    Agreed, but that’s easy to say, since I believe Trump has already committed impeachable offenses on which the House should be acting.

    It’s worth nothing that higher percentage of the population supports impeaching Trump (PPP and Monmouth put it in the low-to-mid 40s) than supported impeaching Clinton (Gallup and NYT had it in the mid 30s).

    Doug, I really don’t think that is worth noting, since polling is likely based more on popularity than on actual transgressions. In the case of 30+% for Clinton, that might be more serious for him than 40% is for Trump, since Clinton was much more popular than Trump is. On the other hand, that 30% probably represented wingnuts who would have impeached Clinton for being a Democrat/communist. While I don’t think Democrats have such low standards, many may believe that Trump should be removed from office because of the threat he poses both to our institutions and to world peace.

    In the end, do I favor impeaching Trump because I hate him or because I think he’s committed “high crimes and misdemeanors?” The latter. I think the House should threaten to impeach him for violations of the emoluments clause and, if Trump is willing to agree to full and meaningful divestiture, that would be the end of those proceedings. The precedent he has set in that area is disastrous and needs to be dealt with — as always, the best interests of the country are secondary (or worse) to the Republicans.

    The Russia investigation and any offshoots are separate from the above.

  12. 12.

    eric

    August 7, 2017 at 4:44 pm

    Starr has the Baylor legacy too. He has the moral standing of a pedophile. Fuck him.

    ETA. My apologies to pedophiles.

  13. 13.

    MisterForkbeard

    August 7, 2017 at 4:45 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Seriously? They hired the person who literally signed on for a pro-Trump State-sponsored ‘news’ gig as the party spokesperson?

    They’re not even pretending these days.

  14. 14.

    The Moar You Know

    August 7, 2017 at 4:45 pm

    Also, FWIW, I think impeachment of Trump, unless initiated by the GOP, would be Dem suicide. Unless we have 67 Dem votes in the Senate to convict. And we won’t.

  15. 15.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: For that reason, I’d like to see us approach any impeachment of Trump slowly. Give people time to absorb any findings.

    as you say, I think public hearings are crucial, and I think trump’s already clear offense are a steaming, stinking, two-ton mastodon turd in middle of our national parlor. I hope Impeachment Now! doesn’t become (yet another) new litmus test

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    August 7, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    @The Moar You Know:
    Starr’s behavior at Baylor should preclude his ever appearing in public again, much less propped in front of a camera, but there he is anyway. What a nozzle.

  17. 17.

    Karen

    August 7, 2017 at 4:46 pm

    I thought the impeachment charges against Bill Clinton were really stupid, especially after discovering that those who lead the charge were busy having affairs and engaging in the same behavior they were charging Bill with.
    What bothered me more than anything, at the time, was I was big sistering and spent hours explaining to teens that a blow job was sex no matter what the President said.
    If lying were a crime? the only people left in DC would be the support staff, by that I mean those who provide actual services not those whose jobs are to support the “elected liars”

  18. 18.

    bystander

    August 7, 2017 at 4:48 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    …a precious, preening contrarian.

    It’s the prissy lips.

    I find it less striking that Starr wants to bloviate publicly than that the media are willing to quote him and give him a microphone. After the ignominious ending of his career at Pepperdine, you’d think he’d be treated as the creepo he is.

  19. 19.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 4:52 pm

    @bystander: It’s the prissy lips.

    and even more the weary, patronizing, “Do I really have to explain this to you?” tone of voice.

  20. 20.

    schrodingers_cat

    August 7, 2017 at 4:52 pm

    It wasn’t that long ago when Turdley was a favorite guest on Rachel Maddow’s show.

  21. 21.

    CS

    August 7, 2017 at 4:52 pm

    Now, we’re told again and again that even if Trump committed impeachable offenses, and even if a majority of the public approves of impeaching Trump, there’s still a danger in impeaching Trump because it will upset his base

    who have lots of guns.

    I don’t think we can ignore the always-present subtext here. There was a woman on Fox News last Thursday or Friday who predicted that there would be an uprising if any of Trump’s children were indicted over anything to come out of Mueller’s investigations. Her later tweet didn’t use the word “uprising,” but she used it on-air. Ted Nugent has a similar quote making the rounds on Facebook. I’m sure there are more. Anybody checked on Joe Walsh lately?

    “Don’t do anything we don’t like, or we’ll shoot you” has been part of the Republican undercurrent for decades. This is just more of the same. I really don’t think “the Trump-types will be sad” is the message here.

  22. 22.

    Jeffro

    August 7, 2017 at 4:53 pm

    Fuck Trumpov and fuck his base too – I don’t care about angering either of them, I just want him out of there and facing justice, as he deserves.

    On an anti-Trumpov note, Jennifer Rubin takes a moment away from the DJT-bashing she’s so good at to delineate “What a Republican anti-Trump Agenda Should Look Like“, with 10 basic planks or principles. Go on, take a look…it’s the WaPo, it’s ok to click.

    I challenge you all to join me in politely emailing Ms. Rubin and let her know there’s not a one of those 10 principles that aren’t already being upheld by the Democratic Party. She suggests that anti-Trump Republicans might “…stage primary challenges, create a third party, or run as independents.” Let her know they have another option, and a really good one at that!

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    August 7, 2017 at 4:54 pm

    I can haz moderator help for a disappeared comment, please?

  24. 24.

    The Moar You Know

    August 7, 2017 at 4:55 pm

    Starr has the Baylor legacy too. He has the moral standing of a pedophile. Fuck him.

    @eric: Did some reading. He sure likes the kidfuckers, doesn’t he?

  25. 25.

    Roger Moore

    August 7, 2017 at 4:55 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    For that reason, I’d like to see us approach any impeachment of Trump slowly. Give people time to absorb any findings.

    This. Right now, we should be focusing on investigating Trump and his minions, not talking about impeachment. If the investigation turns up solid evidence of impeachable offenses, we can move on to talking about impeachment. Talking about impeachment when the investigation has barely started is putting the cart before the horse.

  26. 26.

    bystander

    August 7, 2017 at 4:56 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The world is Turley’s second tier law school Con Law class this semester.

    ETA Condescension is the most fun when you can inflict it on a captive audience. Turley may have mistaken Maddow as a student in one of his classes, hence his disappearance.

  27. 27.

    randy khan

    August 7, 2017 at 4:56 pm

    @CS:

    There was a woman on Fox News last Thursday or Friday who predicted that there would be an uprising if any of Trump’s children were indicted over anything to come out of Mueller’s investigations.

    When I saw that, I laughed. Nobody will come to the defense of Ivanka, DJT, Jr. or Eric. Nobody cares about them.

  28. 28.

    randy khan

    August 7, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    @Jeffro:

    I can haz moderator help for a disappeared comment, please?

    Me, too!

  29. 29.

    A Ghost to Most

    August 7, 2017 at 4:57 pm

    @germy:
    Tom Toles is an American treasure.

  30. 30.

    chopper

    August 7, 2017 at 4:58 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    if I were trump (ugh) I’d be scared to death of the possibility of having to testify in the same manner Clinton did. he’d be boned.

  31. 31.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    August 7, 2017 at 4:58 pm

    Trump should be impeached for gross incompetence, let alone rampant corruption and/or espionage/treason. He’s an existential threat not just to American democracy but to the rest of humanity. He’s not a stable man and I hope Putin knows what he’s doing. He’s messing with something that could potentially get 1/7 of the world’s population or more killed. This isn’t like meddling in elections in Kazakhstan or something.

  32. 32.

    randy khan

    August 7, 2017 at 4:59 pm

    If I didn’t know better (since he’s about as sanctimonious as they come), I’d think Starr was joking. The idea that he has the temerity to show his face after what happened at Baylor under his watch is incredible.

  33. 33.

    A Ghost to Most

    August 7, 2017 at 5:01 pm

    @efgoldman:

    Asshole Bible Banger

    I believe the asshole is a given, but Starr is an extra large asshole.

  34. 34.

    HeleninEire

    August 7, 2017 at 5:02 pm

    Watching one of the last EPs of Downtown Abbey. Was on regular TV here. And now I am watching all the eps after on Nexflix. One ep to the end. Jeebus I live this show.

  35. 35.

    germy

    August 7, 2017 at 5:04 pm

    @HeleninEire: I read somewhere they’re planning a full-length film.

  36. 36.

    Doug!

    August 7, 2017 at 5:06 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah, I didn’t find his stuff about impeaching Bush that convincing either.

  37. 37.

    mai naem mobile

    August 7, 2017 at 5:07 pm

    I cannot.believe this moron entertains himself on Twitter because rain cancelled his golfing. Good gawd, we’re really dealing with a child. He needs to be put in time out and grounded forever with no cellphone and computer privileges for four years.

  38. 38.

    raven

    August 7, 2017 at 5:08 pm

    @HeleninEire: I gave up when they were all shocked when Mathew was paralyzed and they didn’t know he couldn’t sire a child.

  39. 39.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 7, 2017 at 5:08 pm

    @germy:

    I love how Tom Toles can capture the essence of a person with just a few lines.

    Have always greatly admired his Trump. His SHS there is perfect. May there be many more occasions for him to draw her.

  40. 40.

    catclub

    August 7, 2017 at 5:10 pm

    @Steeplejack (phone):

    “Noting,” surely?

    It has been fixed, but I would say that either way is still true.

  41. 41.

    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice

    August 7, 2017 at 5:10 pm

    … if the worst thing that Mueller finds on Trump is that Trump lied about an affair before a civil jury, then I don’t think Trump should be impeached either.

    Agree – but I can’t see how past affairs would matter, and I think it’s unlikely he’ll engage in any while in office because I’d bet many monies he’s impotent.

    As long as I’m betting, here’s how I’d wager the Trump presidency* ends: As his dementia progresses, his already shaky impulse control is further reduced and he engages in more and more inappropriate, sexually aggressive behavior. He starts with lewd remarks (he came damned close with Brigitte Macron) and proceeds to grab-assing, while aides and apologists claim each incident is innocuous – the woman lied, or the witnesses lied, or she was a willing participant, or it was just some variant on locker-room talk. Eventually, he’s caught on camera unequivocally molesting a suitably “innocent” victim, in a way that can’t be explained away. The family announces with heavy hearts that he’s just a sad old man who needs care and love and that he will resign and withdraw from public life. President Jesus takes over.

    I watched that type of behavior manifest in my grandfather as his dementia progressed. It’s sadly not uncommon.

  42. 42.

    Doug!

    August 7, 2017 at 5:11 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    Doug, I really don’t think that is worth noting

    It wouldn’t be if the media didn’t constantly cite Trump’s popularity with “his base” as a reason not impeach him. (I agree with you that a president’s popularity shouldn’t be factored into the proceedings.)

  43. 43.

    gene108

    August 7, 2017 at 5:11 pm

    I support impeachment. I don’t care it is Trump, Pence, Ryan or Hatch in the White House. I want a fucking Republican President impeached.

    I’m tired of playing nice with those assholes.

  44. 44.

    Roger Moore

    August 7, 2017 at 5:13 pm

    @CS:
    I don’t think the guns are the subtext when the media talks about it. What they never bother to say is that Trump’s supporters are salt-of-the-earth white folks, who are the people who really matter. It doesn’t matter if you piss off the Democrats’ base because they’re a bunch of weirdos- minorities, LGBTQ people, religious outsiders, etc.- who are basically a bunch of unimportant outsiders. It’s the same dynamic that makes them dismiss Democratic victories because they didn’t win a majority of white votes.

  45. 45.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 7, 2017 at 5:13 pm

    @efgoldman: What I find so hilarious about Ken Starr is that he pretty much wrote a pornographic screed in order to get President Clinton impeached. Porn scripts aren’t as filthy as what he wrote in his puritanical zeal to oust Clinton over a consensual affair. For him to come out swinging against Mueller for overreach or anything else takes a whole lot of balls.

  46. 46.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 5:13 pm

    @gene108: I support impeachment. I don’t care it is Trump, Pence, Ryan or Hatch in the White House.

    Hear, hear. I hate the “Pence would be worse” argument. I happen to think Pence would be even weaker, but in the ways that matter in the long-term, mostly judicial appointments, I think Pence and his kind are calling the shots now.

    @raven: I stayed with it because of Maggie Smith and a few other characters/actors, but there wasn’t a cheap daytime soap opera trick Fellows didn’t pull out of the bag.

  47. 47.

    PhoenixRising

    August 7, 2017 at 5:15 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    It’s also worth considering why somebody with pardon power would obstruct justice to protect an underling. If his goal is to protect them, he could just pardon them if they’re found guilty of anything.

    Yeah, assumption of facts not in evidence: That Trump understands that.

    He is really, really quite stupid, and often commits a felony when a stern look would have gotten the same results. It’s sad, really.

  48. 48.

    Tom Q

    August 7, 2017 at 5:15 pm

    If anything, Doug understates the public opposition to Clinton’s impeachment. The very week that the Monica story broke — and the press went into heat for immediate expulsion — Clinton’s approval ratings shot up to unnaturally high numbers. It was as if the only way the public could block the attempted railroading was to give outlandish approvals. (Outlandish in the sense that normal partisanship sets a reasonable upward limit for any president except in exceptional times — FDR after Pearl Harbor and Bush after 9/11 other examples of the latter.) The press (and GOP) nonetheless persisted for a year-plus, but every time they detected a softening of Clinton’s numbers and tried to pounce, the public returned to Clinton’s side. (A few days after the Articles of Impeachment were voted, one poll showed him at 72% approve!) The attempt to toss Clinton out was vehemently unpopular from start to finish.

    Trump is a whole other story. Already you have a not-insignificant percentage of the public ready to oust him, and this is before Mueller has made any public case. If the buzzed-around reports are anything like true (and I’m not talking just Mensch-ite rumors, but things I’ve heard from more grounded sources), the number of people favoring impeachment could go into Nixon territory. (As they should, because Nixon’s crimes were, staggeringly, small-bore compared to what it appears Trump & Co. may have done.)

    As for Starr and Turley — Starr is a pathetic partisan; Turley wanted Clinton gone so bad he could taste it. Neither man’s opinion matters a damn to me. But that fact that Turley — and too many in the DC pundit class — are far more cautious about wanting Trump tried than they were when it came to Bill (or even Hillary) simply demonstrates Josh Marshall’s theorem that, since Reagan’s time, Washington has been wired for Republicans. The obsession with/exaltation of Trump’s ignorant base voters is just another manifestation of that.

  49. 49.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 7, 2017 at 5:16 pm

    @mai naem mobile: Naw let him rage tweet away. His continued petulance clearly shows that he was never qualified for the position he holds with such derision. Can you imagine the outrage from the Right had President Obama made any negative comments about the condition of the White House? And I wish he would spend all of his time on the golf course. That would mean that he’d spend even less time “governing” from the White House.

  50. 50.

    Barbara

    August 7, 2017 at 5:16 pm

    @trollhattan: He may be the most extreme version of the phenomenon of conservatives finding empathy only after they are personally affected. Now that Starr has been on the receiving end of a reputation shattering investigation he suddenly thinks he understands what it means to engage in investigative overkill, not to mention insight into the desire of human beings to cover up for their sexual sins. He is a slow learner because he still seems not to get the role of consent in defining when sexual behavior should be investigated and when it should be left alone. But, anyway, it’s incredible that he still thinks he has anything to teach us after the Baylor debacle.

  51. 51.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 7, 2017 at 5:18 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I hope Impeachment Now! doesn’t become (yet another) new litmus test

    Agreed. I’m disturbed at the number of variations on “If you think Trump should be impeached, sign this petition!” on FB and in my email. Taking premature action, before Three Sticks has a chance to gather and lay out the evidence and before we can count votes in both chambers of Congress, almost guarantees failure.

  52. 52.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 7, 2017 at 5:18 pm

    @randy khan: Chutzpah!!** He’s got it.

    **shameless audacity; impudence.

  53. 53.

    cmorenc

    August 7, 2017 at 5:18 pm

    @Karen:

    What bothered me more than anything, at the time, was I was big sistering and spent hours explaining to teens that a blow job was sex no matter what the President said.

    But…it doesn’t cost the same (!)

    (RELAX: reference is to a line from comedian Ron White’s “Dickin’ Around with Tiger Woods” skit).

  54. 54.

    A Ghost to Most

    August 7, 2017 at 5:20 pm

    These folks seem nice:

    Energized by Donald Trump’s coarsely confrontational nationalism, the armed right-wing fringe is doing more than stepping out of the shadows in 2017. Detachments of armed men in fatigues have become fixtures at liberal protests, forming the vanguard of what’s become known in some quarters as the “counter-resistance.”

    Now, in a smattering of states with histories of right-wing extremism, chapters of groups like the Oath Keepers and Three Percenters may be emerging as even more direct political players, providing security for local pro-Trump politicians and Republican organizations. In one case, a Three Percenter was found to be employed on a state lawmaker’s staff

    thetrace.org

  55. 55.

    Immanentize

    August 7, 2017 at 5:21 pm

    @raven: I actually gave up at the end of the first season when they used the “first lover from Egypt dies in bed” deus ex machina to drive the narrative. It could only get worse.

  56. 56.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    August 7, 2017 at 5:23 pm

    @Immanentize:

    I actually gave up at the end of the first season when they used the “first lover from Egypt dies in bed” deus ex machina to drive the narrative. It could only get worse.

    Turkey, actually. Still the Ottoman Empire at the time. I watched the whole series without analysing it and I enjoyed it.

  57. 57.

    Frankensteinbeck

    August 7, 2017 at 5:26 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    Yes, I think it’s this. The press doesn’t see a problem with white male vuolence, and outside FOX I doubt they think revolution is likely. It’s losing the votes of whites, and especially white men they’re referring to, for the reasons you cite.

  58. 58.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 7, 2017 at 5:27 pm

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:

    I can’t see how past affairs would matter, and I think it’s unlikely he’ll engage in any while in office because I’d bet many monies he’s impotent.

    I won’t take that bet, but I’m seeing a yuuuuge uptick in open speculation about exactly what role Hope Hicks plays in his life.

  59. 59.

    TriassicSands

    August 7, 2017 at 5:28 pm

    @mai naem mobile:

    Sorry, but the Bill of Rights expressly bars “cruel and unusual punishment.” What could be more cruel than taking away Trump’s favorite toy?

    (What could be more unusual than a grown man tweeting his outrage day after day?)

  60. 60.

    Roger Moore

    August 7, 2017 at 5:28 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I hate the “Pence would be worse” argument.

    Especially because a Pence who took over after Trump was driven from office would be severely weakened. Maybe he’d be able to slide far enough out from the cloud of suspicion that he wouldn’t be driven from office himself, but Trump is going to put a big ugly black mark on the whole party, Pence included.

  61. 61.

    TriassicSands

    August 7, 2017 at 5:29 pm

    @Doug!:

    And I’ll grant your point about the media constantly emphasizing Trump’s popularity with his base.

  62. 62.

    Mike Furlan

    August 7, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    IOKIYAR, IACIYAD

    It is OK if you are a Republican, It is a crime if you are a Democrat.

    I thought this was known by everybody by now.

    https://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/iokiyar-and-iaciyad/

  63. 63.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 5:35 pm

    @Roger Moore: Gonna be hard for Pence, or anyone else, to give the Deplorables the hate high trump has gotten them used to.

    They keep showing the X-Minute Hate from WV on TV, I’m fascinated by a scrawny guy over his shoulder who keeps wildly gesticulating while the Beast snarls.

  64. 64.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 7, 2017 at 5:36 pm

    That’s why it’s strange to me that Ken Starr, who prosecuted Clinton, and Jonathan Turley, who testified in favor of impeaching Clinton, are leading the charge against Robert Mueller.

    Why? Star was clearly never intrested in the rule of law.

  65. 65.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 7, 2017 at 5:38 pm

    @Mike Furlan: How did we get to this point where Republicans can get away with everything and Democrats get zinged for minutia? How did we get to the point where cries of “Liberal bias” have now led to the MSM claiming that both sides do it even in situations where it’s obvious that Republicans are the only ones to blame? For some reasons Conservatives demand respect from the media and get it while our side can barely get on Sunday political shows to give our side of the story.

  66. 66.

    Barbara

    August 7, 2017 at 5:40 pm

    @Roger Moore: Pence would be especially weak if he, like Ford, began making liberal use of his pardon power. He would also be subject to extreme ratf*cking by those who still supported Trump, including by people like Assange or GG.

  67. 67.

    Gelfling 545

    August 7, 2017 at 5:40 pm

    @cmorenc: A friend who was a City Court judge at the time told me that he had to explain to defendants on several occasions that yes, oral acts were constiuted sex acts. I imagine it originates from a lot of the dodges young women used to have to go through to claim they’d never had “sex” before marriage.

  68. 68.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 5:45 pm

    @Gelfling 545: I understand the “oral doesn’t count” theory is big on Xian college campuses. And with Elvis and Priscilla.

  69. 69.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 7, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    “It’s worth nothing noting that a higher percentage of the population supports impeaching Trump (PPP and Monmouth put it in the low-to-mid 40s) ”

    I’d like to see what Miller turns up first before talk of Impeachment. Starting with a conclusion and then looking for evidence to support it is what the evil side does. Right now, If there is any argument for removing Trump from office it’s he’s clearly dangerously to incompetent for it.

  70. 70.

    Roger Moore

    August 7, 2017 at 5:59 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I understand the “oral doesn’t count” theory is big on Xian college campuses.

    My understanding is that it’s closer to “only vaginal counts”, so anal is also popular.

  71. 71.

    joel hanes

    August 7, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    @raven:

    Mathew was paralyzed and they didn’t know he couldn’t sire a child.

    FWIW, one of my family’s friends was one of the last people in our community to be paralyzed by polio.
    He did the iron lung thing and survived, but was paralyzed below the lowest ribs.

    He had two sons that were indubitably genetically his.
    We didn’t inquire closely as to the measures required,
    but I don’t think it was a turkey baster situation,
    and in vitro fertilization was not yet an option at the time to which I refer.

    He was a brilliant man, and his intelligent and thoughtful wife was devoted to him; somehow they found a way.

  72. 72.

    SatanicPanic

    August 7, 2017 at 6:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I hate the “Pence would be worse” argument.

    I hate it because it just means we’d rather not do the right thing because maybe something bad will happen. That devalues our argument about how terrible Trump is.

  73. 73.

    zhena gogolia

    August 7, 2017 at 6:01 pm

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:

    It was a big fat, beautifully acted, beautifully costumed Trollope novel on teevee. What’s not to love?

  74. 74.

    Roger Moore

    August 7, 2017 at 6:02 pm

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Right now, If there is any argument for removing Trump from office it’s he’s clearly dangerously to incompetent for it.

    You forgot corrupt.

  75. 75.

    jl

    August 7, 2017 at 6:04 pm

    The keen logical minds of Starr and Turley (and I suppose Lil’ Newtie) are just following ‘Up-is-downism’ to it’s logical conclusion for every single jot, tittle, and sundry everythings of this life.

  76. 76.

    ruemara

    August 7, 2017 at 6:07 pm

    1. Pence is already in charge of most domestic policy.
    2. after reading some of the comments from the morning thread, you know, you should just point blank tell these conservatives you’re related to or friends with that they can keep repeating the propaganda, but both of you know they backed a treasonous motherfucker and communism over America and everything they’re saying now is just to make themselves feel better. Never fail to point out that they willingly backed a losing motherfucker and everything they’re saying now is to make themselves feel better.
    3. Whether you impeach or not, fast or slow, you should be expecting violence. You should expect your police are 1/3 traitorous. These people have power and see victory within their grasp but we refuse to just let them roll back most of the 20th century. They’re getting angrier and angrier as they fail to be the master race, the economic wunderkinds and they’re the clowns of the world thanks to the Tangerine Tyrant. They weren’t half as organized or mad as they were during Clinton’s administration and we got the Oklahoma bombing. Of course they’re going to lash out more. That’s why hate crimes are up. But I’m fairly sure that as things progress, conservatives will have the domestic terror they’ve been hankering for. As long as I’ve been alive, these twits have been waiting for a race war. Dylan Roof was the age of my favorite cowboy boots and he was trying to start the race war with his murders. They wanted this and they want escalation and violence. You’re not going to dissuade them by reason.

  77. 77.

    Major Major Major Major

    August 7, 2017 at 6:08 pm

    @zhena gogolia: banal complaints about some plot points, evidently.

  78. 78.

    Mike Furlan

    August 7, 2017 at 6:09 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: How did we get here? Here is one explanation:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

    “Inverted totalitarianism is described as a system where corporations have corrupted and subverted democracy and where economics trumps politics.”

    Probably too late to stop, we’ll just see a continuation of the current trend as corporate power continues to squeeze more and more out of our society until at some point in the future they bleed one drop too much and kill the host.

    But her emails. . .

  79. 79.

    ruemara

    August 7, 2017 at 6:10 pm

    @Roger Moore: Yes to both. When I was fundy, I was shocked at the fact that so many of my teen peers had that view. I mean, seriously? It’s all sex, honey.

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’ve been hearing that too. Ugh. Anyone willing to get close to that repellent dung hill must be mentally damaged.

  80. 80.

    waspuppet

    August 7, 2017 at 6:11 pm

    It’s remarkable how, among the Beltway Media Stars, impeachment has gone in 20 years from being something that actually happened to some forgotten legalistic clause that “Yeah, technically it still exists I guess but but c’mon really?” Like it’s a law about requiring wheels instead of runners on your horse-drawn wagon, or not eating pickles on Sundays.

    By “remarkable,” of course, I mean “yet another symbol of how Republicanism is more important than America.”

    I also wonder whether there might be a few people who are kinda ticked off that the candidate they voted for, and who got more votes, isn’t president. But of course they aren’t Real Americans so who cares?

  81. 81.

    efgoldman

    August 7, 2017 at 6:12 pm

    @CS:

    I don’t think we can ignore the always-present subtext here.

    We absolutely can and should. Fuck the keyboard militias. They’ll call the talk shows, and write threatening web comments, and then sit back on the couch and drink more beer. .

    And yes, there are genuine crazies out there who can and will do real harm. They’ll do what they do anyway. There won’t be more of them, the marginal assholes won’t be any more motivated.

    Mock them.
    Disrespect them
    Do not patronize them
    Turn them in

    Fuckem

  82. 82.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 7, 2017 at 6:13 pm

    sigh, the best lines are always wasted on the Conservatives “Look, I know Trump’s Russia collusion is a youthful indiscretion and we should all move on, like Pence’s emailing pictures of himself naked, GW Bush murdering hookers in Juarez, and Romany’s video of him showering with a suite on, but what I don’t get is how Clinton and that woman in Arkansas is any different. Perhaps it’s my Cosmopolitan Bias but you will have to explain it to me”

  83. 83.

    debbie

    August 7, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    @efgoldman:

    My favorite moment remains when Bob Livingston, one of Clinton’s noisiest scolds, was forced to acknowledge his own transgressions. He paused, then announced he was quitting his job and demanded that Clinton do the same.

    We’re dealing with amoralists. They will always be like this.

  84. 84.

    SatanicPanic

    August 7, 2017 at 6:16 pm

    @efgoldman: This

  85. 85.

    Mike J

    August 7, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    @Karen:

    I was big sistering and spent hours explaining to teens that a blow job was sex no matter what the President said.

    Although in the lawsuit that was the subject of the “I did not have sex with that woman” speech, the plaintiff had defined sex as intercourse only. By the rules in use in the trial, he told the truth. The speech however was using the rules of everyday English.

  86. 86.

    Brachiator

    August 7, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    There’s one more funny parallel I’d like to mention between the two impeachment cases. As Clinton’s impeachment case unfolded, it’s fair to say that the public generally opposed impeachment while the media generally favored it.

    Really?

    It’s true that when the case for impeachment was first made, newspapers clutched their moral pearls.

    At least 30 newspapers have called for the President’s resignation, including 7 that circulate 250,000 or more papers on Sundays: The New Orleans Times-Picayune, The Seattle Times, The Des Moines Sunday Register, The Philadelphia Inquirer, The San Jose Mercury-News, The Tampa Tribune and The Atlanta Journal-Constitution. The Albuquerque Journal on Sunday called Mr. Clinton ”morally unfit to continue in office,” while The Seattle Times said, ”Without moral authority, the President cannot lead.”

    But as the case unfolded, the press called BS on the attempt to stick it to Bill Clinton.

    From a CNN article of the period.

    The first reports seemed to appear almost before the vote was complete on Saturday. And later in the day and early Sunday, the editorial writers went to work, spelling out their papers’ opinions on the process.

    Almost all of them said it stinks.

    Unlike the Republican-led House of Representatives, major newspapers largely fell behind public opinion, calling for a quick end to the impeachment process.

    Many called on the Senate, where Clinton’s fate now rests, to forgo a lengthy trial and instead vote to censure the president.

    “The time to end this mess has come,” the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, which as late as September 13 had called for Clinton’s resignation, said Sunday. “With an impeachment vote in the House and a resolution of condemnation from both the Senate and the House, the matter could be brought to a reasonable end. For the good of the country, end it now.”

    Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott, The New York Times said, could convene a trial and then quickly move past it.

    “Nothing in (the Constitution) prevents him from speedily guiding the Senate toward censure negotiations,” the paper said in Sunday’s editorial.

    Nobody was saying the president was innocent.

    The San Francisco Examiner cited “horrible mistakes in his private sexual choices and public obfuscations.”

    The president’s behavior was “loutish,” railed the Miami Herald.

    Clinton “gave false and misleading testimony under oath in a failed attempt to keep the truth from civil plaintiffs, prosecutors and the public,” said the Houston Chronicle.

    It’s just not enough to remove a president from office, say many major newspapers.

    “Impeachment is a legal means of taking out of office a president who threatens the well-being of the republic. Even Clinton’s most committed enemies … can’t claim that standard has been set,” according to the Los Angeles Times

    “Partisanship and precipice met in the U.S. House of Representatives yesterday, and the Republic majority leapt into the abyss by impeaching President Clinton on two articles,” said the Miami Herald.

    Over all, the editorialists said, it’s been an ugly process.

    “Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have covered themselves with glory. Mud is more like it,” chided the San Francisco Examiner.

    “The country deserves better than this, from its president and its Congress,” declared the San Jose Mercury News

    And that leaves, said the papers, the Senate.

    “The Senate, which prides itself as a more deliberative, less emotional body, will face both a challenge and an opportunity to restore some of the dignity and sobriety that the occasion deserves,” said the Houston Chronicle.

  87. 87.

    Karen

    August 7, 2017 at 6:20 pm

    @cmorenc: Well, it went better than having to explain to girls that standing up during sex won’t keep you from getting pregnant and candy wrappers don’t work as well as condoms. This is what scares me about Pence in office, he doesn’t believe in sex education.

  88. 88.

    Ruckus

    August 7, 2017 at 6:21 pm

    @eric:
    LMAO at your ETA

  89. 89.

    Roger Moore

    August 7, 2017 at 6:21 pm

    @waspuppet:

    It’s remarkable how, among the Beltway Media Stars, impeachment has gone in 20 years from being something that actually happened to some forgotten legalistic clause that “Yeah, technically it still exists I guess but but c’mon really?”

    Sure. They genuinely believed that Clinton should have been removed from office. When it didn’t happen, they thought that meant that impeachment was a dead letter. That impression can only have been cemented by failure to impeach W for lying to get us into Iraq and Obama for killing those people in Benghazi. It’s obviously ridiculous for the Democrats to bring it up again now!

  90. 90.

    Quinerly

    August 7, 2017 at 6:22 pm

    Speaking of assholes…Alan Dershowitz on Ari Melber’s show.

  91. 91.

    debbie

    August 7, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    @HeleninEire:

    Did you ever watch Brideshead Revisited?

  92. 92.

    SenyorDave

    August 7, 2017 at 6:23 pm

    On Outside the beltway, commentator Michael Reynolds, referred to Trump as amoral pig. I think its a very succinct way to describe Trump, and many of his people (Gingrich, Giuliani, Christie, etc.). Hypocritical assholes describes a large portion of the GOP. That Turley, who pushed for Clinton’s impeachment, is now schilling for Trump is the height of absurdity. I would love to hear how he squares that circle.

  93. 93.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 7, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    @ruemara: Do you think it’s as low as 1/3?

  94. 94.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    @debbie: It wasn’t on TV, but I’m partial to the story that when Hyde and the other impeachment managers had their first post-impeachment meeting with Trent Lott, and his wig, Lott said, “you’re not gonna dump this shit on my desk, Henry”.

    Also, while he was a disgusting human being, Strom Thurmond used to bring a couple of those mini-oranges to one of the Clinton lawyers every morning, a very attractive young African-American woman, I wanna say Cheryl Mills? I think that reflected the level of seriousness most of the Senate brought to the whole process.

  95. 95.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 7, 2017 at 6:25 pm

    All of this stems from Ford letting Tricky Dick off the hook for Tricky Dick’s crimes.

  96. 96.

    Lee Hartmann

    August 7, 2017 at 6:25 pm

    by “strange” you mean “reliable R hacks with no self-awareness or ethics (see, e.g., Baylor University).

  97. 97.

    ruemara

    August 7, 2017 at 6:27 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m trying to have a positive outlook.

  98. 98.

    A Ghost to Most

    August 7, 2017 at 6:28 pm

    @efgoldman:
    All of this. Fuckem.
    I sometimes worry about what those fucking people are capable of, but then I remember how gutlessly most of them have lived their lives.

  99. 99.

    debbie

    August 7, 2017 at 6:29 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    their first post-impeachment meeting with Trent Lott, and his wig…

    The wig always won, didn’t it?

  100. 100.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 7, 2017 at 6:31 pm

    @debbie:

    Did you ever watch Brideshead Revisited?

    I’m not Helen, but I can assure you (if you’re talking about the original series, with Jeremy Irons and Anthony Andrews) it is one of my top-of-the-list, all-time favourite Masterpiece Theatre-type presentations. Bonus: Laurence Olivier and John Gielgud as parental units.

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    August 7, 2017 at 6:31 pm

    @gene108:
    I feel you

  102. 102.

    Ruckus

    August 7, 2017 at 6:32 pm

    @Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
    At the first home that my father lived in (Alzheimer’s) sort of like a hotel with a common dinning room, the staff told me that it wasn’t unusual for the patients to have relations. They were still adults with libidos and as most days were completely new to them, affairs were not uncommon. As long as they were both consenting, what could the staff do?

  103. 103.

    Brachiator

    August 7, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Hear, hear. I hate the “Pence would be worse” argument.

    I agree. Pence might be worse, but Trump is absolutely unfit to be president, and is incapable of executing the duties of the office with any competence.

  104. 104.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 6:34 pm

    @debbie: Trent Lott’s Wig will give Trent Lott’s eulogy.

    they’ve been very close for a long time

  105. 105.

    randy khan

    August 7, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    @ruemara:

    Yes to both. When I was fundy, I was shocked at the fact that so many of my teen peers had that view. I mean, seriously? It’s all sex, honey.

    I’ve discovered over the years that fundamentalists can be downright Talmudic in their hair-splitting about the rules that they want to avoid.

  106. 106.

    debbie

    August 7, 2017 at 6:38 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Oh, the movie was beyond horrible!

    The original series ranks as my all-time favorite. I had it on VHS and would watch it a couple times a year until my VCR gave out. Now I get it on DVD from my library. I just cannot grow tired of watching it. Every single actor and actress was absolutely perfect for their part!

    Oh, Charles, don’t be a bore!

  107. 107.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 7, 2017 at 6:39 pm

    @randy khan:

    I’ve discovered over the years that fundamentalists can be downright Talmudic in their hair-splitting about the rules that they want to avoid.

    Yeah, and don’t forget the Jesuits.

  108. 108.

    Quinerly

    August 7, 2017 at 6:41 pm

    Daily Caller reporting that Trump is upset over the new book Devil’s Bargain: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and the Storming of the Presidency because the book claims Bannon had a major role in the victory. He also has been complaining about the November Forbes cover piece that claimed Kushner was the mastermind of the campaign. True to form, that’s for sure.

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    August 7, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    @Karen:

    What bothered me more than anything, at the time, was I was big sistering and spent hours explaining to teens that a blow job was sex no matter what the President said.

    Those were more innocent times. Today, you would have to discuss whether auto-fell@tio is still sex.

  110. 110.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    August 7, 2017 at 6:43 pm

    @Brachiator:

    “Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have covered themselves with glory. Mud is more like it,” chided the San Francisco Examiner.

    “The country deserves better than this, from its president and its Congress,” declared the San Jose Mercury News

    But Both Sides!

  111. 111.

    patrick II

    August 7, 2017 at 6:45 pm

    There really is no one I like less than Ken Starr. I suppose because he disabused me of all of my childhood fantasies about the integrity of being a judge. He was a judge, then the U.S. Solicitor General, then as a independent investigator re-investigated the death of Vince Foster, the White House Travel Office, Rose Law Firm, Paula Jones law suit, White Water (whom he threw someone in jail for for not lying about Clinton) and eventually Monica Lewinsky, whom Clinton had an affair with and Starr sexually abused by her public humiliation.
    Then, among other misdeeds (including a letter of support for a friend accused of raping five teens), he suppressed rape allegations against Baylor football players. For which I would love some prosecutor somewhere to do something about — but nada.
    Anyhow, now he comes back all pompous and self-righteous and a “good Christian” lecturing us on Mueller’s “runaway” investigation. If you want a right-wing poster boy for abuse of privilege, a pompously righteousness sinner pointing out the speck of sawdust in another’s eye while ignoring the plank in his own, Ken Starr is your man, a truly evil twit,

  112. 112.

    Brachiator

    August 7, 2017 at 6:52 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: RE: I’ve discovered over the years that fundamentalists can be downright Talmudic in their hair-splitting about the rules that they want to avoid.

    Yeah, and don’t forget the Jesuits.

    I used to joke that the Jesuits are the only Catholic priests not required to believe in God.

  113. 113.

    germy

    August 7, 2017 at 6:54 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Trent Lott’s Wig will give Trent Lott’s eulogy.

    they’ve been very close for a long time

    And John Bolton’s mustache fell hair to a fortune.

  114. 114.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    August 7, 2017 at 6:59 pm

    Simon Maloy‏Verified account @ SimonMaloy 2h2 hours ago
    John Kelly’s new order couldn’t survive one rainy day

    Maybe Kelly could have Barron teach the Rough Beast about Wii golf.

  115. 115.

    Chitown Kev

    August 7, 2017 at 7:01 pm

    I distinctly remember that under one of those articles for impeachment (the ”abuse of power” article that failed when it went before the full House, I think), Starr wanted to impeach Clinton for his 1/26/98 statement that, ”I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky.”

    Based on that standard of truth telling and the sheer volumes of proven lies by this Administration simply about the Russia affair, Twitler should have been kicked out of office long ago…the hypocrisy of the GOP is simply nauseating.

  116. 116.

    Gravenstone

    August 7, 2017 at 7:03 pm

    @CS: I suspect the gun fondling Trumtaptards will be in for a very rude awakening at how many on our side are capable and willing to defend ourselves and our country.

  117. 117.

    bemused

    August 7, 2017 at 7:08 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    Funny, I said the same thing at the time, Bill is a horndog and added that he was Hillary’s problem, not ours.

  118. 118.

    Turgidson

    August 7, 2017 at 7:10 pm

    @bystander:

    I find it less striking that Starr wants to bloviate publicly than that the media are willing to quote him and give him a microphone.

    Newt Gingrich has a permanent seat at the national discourse table, as does Bloody Bill Kristol. The former is a bloviating, hypocritical, fairly racist piece of shit. The latter hasn’t been right about a single thing for at least 20 years, and somehow remains insufferably smug. Yet they both get invited on to “respectable” media damn near every week.

    So I’m not particularly surprised that Starr is given this opportunity.

  119. 119.

    p.a.

    August 7, 2017 at 7:15 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: I liked Andrews in MT’s Danger UXB.

  120. 120.

    Baud

    August 7, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    Given the discussion in this thread, I can’t believe no one linked to this.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rjjh9PML8tE

  121. 121.

    Karen

    August 7, 2017 at 7:20 pm

    @Brachiator: I am thankful that don’t have to do that, it was hard enough to deal with back then; the parents were the worst. Often they blindly assumed if they didn’t teach their teens about sex then they wouldn’t think of sex; the fundies still think that way.
    Have a couple of family members that are fundie; their children are homeschooled and have no clue, yet their group has a high rate of molestation and incest. One of the girls explained that daddy was teaching her to be a good wife.

  122. 122.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 7, 2017 at 7:23 pm

    @Mike Furlan: From your link:

    The people While the classical totalitarian regimes aimed at the constant political mobilization of the populace, inverted totalitarianism aims for the mass of the populace to be in a persistent state of political apathy. The only type of political activity expected or desired from the citizenry is voting. Low electoral turnouts are favorably received as an indication that the bulk of the populace has given up hope that the government will ever help them.

    Yep. Voting was at a 20-year low in November 2016. Of course, some of that is because of GOP voter suppression tactics and Russian interference leading to the demoralization of Clinton supporters.

  123. 123.

    Baud

    August 7, 2017 at 7:25 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: That article is dated right after the election. I thought it turned out that voting was about the same as 2012.

  124. 124.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 7, 2017 at 7:27 pm

    @p.a.:

    Yes! Why don’t more people know about that terrific series?

    (For that matter, he was a fine and persuasive Scarlet Pimpernel, opposite, I think, Jane Seymour.)

  125. 125.

    zhena gogolia

    August 7, 2017 at 7:34 pm

    @Chitown Kev:

    You said it.

  126. 126.

    chris

    August 7, 2017 at 7:36 pm

    @Roger Moore: The Loophole by Garfunkel and Oates. Definitely NSFW, but funny.

  127. 127.

    Central Planning

    August 7, 2017 at 7:40 pm

    @Roger Moore: “The poophole is not a loophole” – either Betty Bowers from FB or Christians Against Drugs on FB. Both are hilarious.

  128. 128.

    p.a.

    August 7, 2017 at 7:49 pm

    OT and I hope this isn’t a dead thread, but Rachel Held Evans has a new post with lots of links to progressive woman bloggers.

  129. 129.

    Noncarborundum

    August 7, 2017 at 8:02 pm

    had every fight to feel disillusioned

    I feel sure you mean “right” there, but I wouldn’t object to a little fighting from time to time.

  130. 130.

    CS

    August 7, 2017 at 8:19 pm

    @Gravenstone: True. But there are a lot of bullies on the Right. At the national level, yes, we can mock them, but some of the loudest Trumpers are bullies at home, at their jobs, at their church, wherever. When you shame a bully, you can often back them down. But you run the risk of setting them off, too. And then they’ll turn up the abuse on the ones most vulnerable and closest to hand.

    You’re not going to get a national rebellion happening anytime soon, because the national leaders won’t support it. One of the few rules they haven’t broken, yet. But they’ll turn a blind eye, like Trump, to individual acts of violence as long as they can deny their personal involvement. Leaving the rest of us to deal with it. And ramping up the fear and loathing while giving it a free pass when it erupts is worrisome. We should pay attention, especially when someone with a mic and a TV camera is predicting the same thing as a form of permission.

  131. 131.

    Barry

    August 7, 2017 at 8:27 pm

    “That’s why it’s strange to me that Ken Starr, who prosecuted Clinton, and Jonathan Turley, who testified in favor of impeaching Clinton, are leading the charge against Robert Mueller. ”

    What’s strange about it? Right-wing apparachniks are hypocrites and liars.
    The whole Clinton thing was that that right realized that there were no limits other than institutional self-restraint, which the right didn’t have.

  132. 132.

    J R in WV

    August 7, 2017 at 8:34 pm

    @bystander:

    After the ignominious ending of his career at Pepperdine…

    His career as president at Baylor, a “good” Baptist school with a football team founded on players raping students, was at least as ignominious as his career at Pepperdine. He didn’t even try to control those guys. By which I mean the coaches, who were in charge of the F’n team.

  133. 133.

    tobie

    August 7, 2017 at 8:35 pm

    This is a little out there but did anyone hear Senator Blumenthal say on the Chris Hayes show that the Russians hacked–or tried to hack–the voting machines in the last election. It’s the first time I’ve heard an elected official say that. Usually they defend the integrity of the election and argue instead about the sustained disinformation campaign. This was different.

  134. 134.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 7, 2017 at 8:52 pm

    @debbie: I love that Cordelia Flyte grew up to be Lady Flintshire.

  135. 135.

    Brachiator

    August 7, 2017 at 9:18 pm

    @Karen:

    Often they blindly assumed if they didn’t teach their teens about sex then they wouldn’t think of sex; the fundies still think that way.

    It’s not just fundies. Lots of parents are embarrassed. I remember watching a documentary put together by high school kids with their own video equipment. One kid filmed her own mother being evasive and just not wanting to talk about it. Then, while alone, the kid delivered the kicker. “She doesn’t want to talk about it at all. And my mom is a nurse.”

  136. 136.

    J R in WV

    August 7, 2017 at 9:31 pm

    @ruemara:

    Probably not, ruemara. I’m pretty obviously left wing, even getting a haircut didn’t really hide that. So I have a CCW permit, and a .45 auto pistol, much like my Grandma’s carry pistol, which was a Colt .32 auto pistol, designed by the same guy that developed the 1911 .45… I’ve been shooting since I was 12 or so, back in the early 1960s.

    I think every Democratic supporter needs to get a carry permit, and training in shooting, in order to defend ourselves against fascists with guns, who need to learn not to pick on liberals.

  137. 137.

    artem1s

    August 7, 2017 at 9:59 pm

    I also would have no problem with giving Dolt45 a pass if his ‘crime’ was some personal indiscretion. I felt exactly the same way about the whole Bush Crime Family. But the reality is the GOP, since Nixon, has insisted that they get to run investigation after investigation on Dems (especially the Clintons) but should never, ever have to endure the same level of scrutiny themselves. They want to be endlessly fishing because it casts doubt on someone, not because there is anything behind those suspicions.

    Truth is, Newt, Hastert, any Bush, most GOPers and NO member of FamiliaDolt45 could endure 1/100 of the scrutiny that Bill and Hillary was put thru. Starr had his grubby fingers in the Clinton’s underwear drawer for 5 years and found zip, zero, nada. Not so much as a bad check. He had to invent a scandal around a consensual sexual relationship that hadn’t even started when he was first hired. Every time HRC gave testimony, from Travelgate to the Gowdy Flopsweat Benghazi hearing, she pantsed every GOPer involved.

    Dolt45 thinks that threatening more Hillary hearings will deter the Dems from pursuing investigations? HRC says bring it on MFers. Go for it. Reap the whirlwind. I fucking dare you.

  138. 138.

    PIGL

    August 8, 2017 at 5:31 am

    @CS: Well, fine. Let them learn once and for all how well civilian irregulars fare against modern elite military forces backed by bear omniscient surveillance.

    Hint: not very.

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

On The Road - Albatrossity - Flyover Country Spring 2
Image by Albatrossity (5/18/25)

Recent Comments

  • NotMax on Late Night Open Thread: Flag Humper’s Day D.C. Parade (May 19, 2025 @ 2:41am)
  • Parfigliano on Late Night Open Thread: Flag Humper’s Day D.C. Parade (May 19, 2025 @ 2:35am)
  • NotMax on Late Night Open Thread: Flag Humper’s Day D.C. Parade (May 19, 2025 @ 2:27am)
  • NotMax on Late Night Open Thread: Flag Humper’s Day D.C. Parade (May 19, 2025 @ 2:15am)
  • prostratedragon on Late Night Open Thread: Flag Humper’s Day D.C. Parade (May 19, 2025 @ 2:08am)

PA Supreme Court At Risk

Donate

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
War in Ukraine
Donate to Razom for Ukraine

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Meetups

Upcoming Ohio Meetup May 17
5/11 Post about the May 17 Ohio Meetup

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)
Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Hands Off! – Denver, San Diego & Austin

Social Media

Balloon Juice
WaterGirl
TaMara
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
DougJ NYT Pitchbot
mistermix

Keeping Track

Legal Challenges (Lawfare)
Republicans Fleeing Town Halls (TPM)
21 Letters (to Borrow or Steal)
Search Donations from a Brand

PA Supreme Court At Risk

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2025 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!