Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

Petty moves from a petty man.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Sometimes the world just tells you your cat is here.

Putting aside our relentless self-interest because the moral imperative is crystal clear.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

This blog will pay for itself.

Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

Trumpflation is an intolerable hardship for every American, and it’s Trump’s fault.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

You are here: Home / Politics / America / Breaking News: The DPRK Has Miniaturized A Nuclear Warhead

Breaking News: The DPRK Has Miniaturized A Nuclear Warhead

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The DPRK has now managed to successfully test, in a launch and forget kind of way, an ICBM and to miniaturize a warhead. If they crack controlled reentry on their ICBMs they’ll be in business. And remember, regardless of what was said in the Hewitt/McMaster interview, there are no good military options to resolve this. As in none that will get the job done without catastrophic effects and results. The real tools that need to be used here are diplomatic, economic, and informational national power.

Also, the President has, apparently and likely unintentionally, declassified and confirmed leaked information about US surveillance satellite capabilities.

And it’s not even 1:30 PM EDT on Thursday.

Stay frosty!

Reader Interactions

256Comments

  4. 4.

    Adam L Silverman

    @schrodingers_cat: Yes, my Marine friends have told me that he is prepared to personally catch each and every inbound missile.

    You do understand the difference between Chief of Staff of the White House and Secretary of Defense, State, and Energy, Assistant to the President-National Security Advisor, Commander PACOM, Commander US Forces Korea, Commander US Forces Japan?

  6. 6.

    Adam L Silverman

    As soon as MSNBC posts the segment they’ve been running online I’ll update the post with it.

  9. 9.

    SFAW

    Perhaps instead of “President,” they should refer to him as “Highly Placed Russian Agent,” since he seems to be intent on giving away US intelligence to our adversaries.

    Although, I have to say — I thought enemy agents/spies would be less obvious about it.

    For some reason, I have this urge to say “Fuck You Jill Stein” out loud. Not sure why that would be. Probably because I’m under the mistaken impression that Hillary would NOT be worse. But that’s just me.

  10. 10.

    aimai

    Some days I can forget that Trump is president. But some day it rushes in on me with renewed force. This is truly a tragedy–a tragedy of unimaginable proportions for our country and the world. I weep for all of us and I rage against the people who not only let it happen but urged it on. I am not giving up the fight–but I actually wonder whether will we live through the next three years of Trump without his pulling the trigger and killing literally millions of people in the kind of old fashioned nuclear war that characterized the last century.

  12. 12.

    NotMax

    Foreign Affairs tag? Good. Gonna shoehorn this in here as, diplomatically, it is a BFD.

    Shame on Spain for acquiescing to Turkey’s waving the word terrorism about like a bludgeon.

    Turkish government accused of trying to silence critics with arrest of Swedish writer
    [snip]
    “This is an attempt from Erdogan to extend his power outside of the country’s borders. He wants to show that he can reach critical voices even if they do not exist in the country. It’s an abuse of international police cooperation that risks having major consequences,” RSF [Reporters Without Borders] Sweden president Jonathan Lundqvist said in a statement. Source

    Give ’em an inch…

    Yalcin is the second Swedish national to be arrested on Turkey’s orders in less then a month. Sweden’s Foreign Minister criticized Turkey in July after IT consultant Ali Gharavi was jailed in the country along with several human rights activists for allegedly aiding a terror group. The Swedish government understood that he was there to attend a seminar about freedom of the internet.

  13. 13.

    SFAW

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think SC was commenting on the Highly Placed Russian Agent’s re-tweeting of what may be classified info, without asking anyone whether that was a good idea. Kelly was (in theory) going to rein in that motherfucker’s idiotic tweeting.

  14. 14.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SFAW: It was reported yesterday that Kelly has recognized that he can’t control the tweeting.

  16. 16.

    sigaba

    @Adam L Silverman: I know the difference but Trump doesn’t, he just knows he has a lot of generals everywhere and they’re his guys and if he does everything they say everything will come up Millhouse.

  18. 18.

    boatboy_srq

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Secretary of Defense, State, and Energy, Assistant to the President-National Security Advisor, Commander PACOM, Commander US Forces Korea, Commander US Forces Japan

    Is THAT his new title?

    …

    …

    Too early?

  19. 19.

    Adam L Silverman

    @schrodingers_cat: I’m not sure why you’d be teasing me. I have repeatedly stated that I do NOT know Kelly. Have never met him. Have never provided support to any of his commands or, as far as I know, anyone on his staffs. Was not consulted on his appointment to DHS. Was not pleased with what he empowered while there. And was not consulted on his appointment as COS.

    If you keep this up we’re going to have a serious disagreement. You will not enjoy that.

  20. 20.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @aimai:

    Some days I can forget that Trump is president.

    Please share your One Weird Trick with the rest of us.

  21. 21.

    stinger

    I’ve said all along that he’s never understood what “being President” actually entails. This is… just… unbelievable…

    ETA to fix apparent onslaught of dysgraphia

  22. 22.

    Stuart Frasier

    @dedc79:

    Miniaturize? Meh. Call me when they figure out how to re-enlarge one.

    What is this? A nuclear warhead for ants?

  24. 24.

    SFAW

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It was reported yesterday that Kelly has recognized that he can’t control the tweeting.

    Not “can’t” — it’s “isn’t willing to pay the price.” [Although the price he might have to pay might be his firing, which would remove the possibility of his control.]

    Reported where, by the way? MSM, or here? (Not disputing your statement in any way, I just haven’t been paying attention to that stuff for the last 24-48 hours.)

  25. 25.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You do understand the difference between Chief of Staff of the White House and

    I think it’s moot. My expectation is that Kelly is going to try to be de facto president, since he knows Trump is incompetent and will do whatever he’s told. That will last until Trump’s ego has had enough plus he finds a way to fire Kelly without ever, ever having to meet him face to face.

  27. 27.

    Ian G.

    @SFAW:

    Stein is as much on Putin’s payroll as Trump. A successful reclamation of our country from Russian interests would see her playing poker with Robert Hanssen at the Supermax.

  28. 28.

    MisterForkbeard

    I’m probably being alarmist, but now I’m actually faintly worried about driving through San Francisco most days. I don’t trust Trump to navigate this with any degree of competence, and it suddenly seems like getting a major city nuked is a distinct possibility.

    At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump tried to push an immediate land/sea/air war against North Korea, egged on by people like Hugh Hewitt. There’s only so much his generals can do to stop him, and some of them might even be in favor of it.

  30. 30.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @boatboy_srq:
    @Adam L Silverman:

    “first lord of the treasury, lord chief justice, commander-in chief, lord high admiral, master of the buckhounds, groom of the back stairs, archbishop of Titipu, and lord mayor, both acting and elect, all rolled into one.”

  32. 32.

    NotMax

    Adam, whaddaya think at first blush about this?

    Muscle flexing? Testing the waters? Irritating the oyster of the uberstate to attempt growing a pearl of moderation?

  33. 33.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    Also, the President has, apparently and likely unintentionally, declassified and confirmed leaked information about US surveillance satellite capabilities.

    The President has the right to declassify anything! Blarg!

  37. 37.

    SFAW

    @stinger:

    grysdaphia

    Umm — I think you switched some letters htere.

    ETA: Just messing with you. I know you spelled it right.

  39. 39.

    N M

    Here’s a fun thiught: who’s to say that Trump himself isn’t the ‘anonymous’ source for his good buds at Fox, then is RT the article to strike his own ego?

  40. 40.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: The Freedom Caucus has been stating this is their position since January. The question will be what do Ryan and McConnell do. I think they’ll do what they’ve done in the past, but we’re so far off the looking glass and through the map that anything is possible. As for the President signing a clean increase, it will depend whether Kelly, Gary Cohen, and Steve Mnuchin carry the argument or whether Bannon does.

  42. 42.

    debit

    Adam, since I like scaring myself shitless, what happens if the Twitler decides to nuke ’em from orbit (since it’s the only way to be sure)?

  43. 43.

    Immanentize

    Adam,. I am not really certain how we can know that the N Koreans have a miniturized nuke unless out HUMINT I way better than ever before understood. Couldn’t this be Powell’s aluminum tubes?

  44. 44.

    Brachiator

    Also, the President has, apparently and likely unintentionally, declassified and confirmed leaked information about US surveillance satellite capabilities.

    Christ on a cracker! Can’t the Simpleton-in-Chief do anything right? I guess Trump could not get the Chinese to make the North Koreans back off from their nuclear programs.

    Once again, the sad irony of the fools who bought into the myth that this clown was going to show the world what strong white man USA! USA! leadership was all about, and that he would make our enemies like North Korea sit up, take notice, do the right thing.

    Once again, the big lies that brought us where we are.

    Trump is a typical Republican
    Trump, Clinton, no difference
    Hillary would be worse

  45. 45.

    Chris

    Not only are there no good military options… but after Trump’s recent suggestion that he wanted to find Iran in violation regardless of what his agencies told him, we have another illustration of why the North Koreans would be absolutely batshit insane NOT to keep developing their nuclear capabilities.

  47. 47.

    NotMax

    @Adam L. Silverman

    ??

    Maybe it’s FYWP. Link was to a mention of Rouhani and Iran. (#86 in that thread)

    Excerpt from the link:

    After decisively winning re-election almost three months ago, Iran’s president on Tuesday proposed a new Cabinet for his second term that cuts out the hard-line Revolutionary Guard from controlling the Defence Ministry for the first time in nearly 25 years.

  48. 48.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I was speaking Wingnutease, Adam. That’s how they talk.

    And as an aside for anyone reading this, I feel I should reiterate a basic point regarding “rights”: Just because you have the “right” (or authority) to do something doesn’t mean you should.

  50. 50.

    Jay S

    Also, the President has, apparently and likely unintentionally, declassified and confirmed leaked information about US surveillance satellite capabilities.

    I’m not sure I’m following. That assumes the dubiously sourced leak is true, and that the surveillance capabilities were not well known. This (the missile leak) sounds like someone trying to stir up trouble and lay the groundwork for war.
    Although Nikki Hayley’s statements are more of a confirmation of the info, I guess.

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Immanentize: I’m not read onto this and don’t expect I would be. So I haven’t seen the report being reported on by WaPo, NBC/MSNBC, WSJ, etc. My guess is that the info is likely a combination of SIGINT and HUMINT. The latter most likely gotten via the ROK’s Intel Community.

  53. 53.

    different-church-lady

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It was reported yesterday that Kelly has recognized that he can’t control the tweeting.

    He’s a fool if he ever thought he could.

  54. 54.

    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes

    That Fox tweet has all the sense of yellowcake to me.

    Twitler needs a pre-emptive war. Too bad for the residents of Seoul and Pyongyang, but authoritarian regimes can’t cement themselves into permanent power without a few eggs getting broken.

  55. 55.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Brachiator: He saw Fox and Friends report on it then retweeted their tweet about the segment. This is not a disclosure through established channels based on Intel Community review, rather it is disclosure via cable morning show.

  57. 57.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Brachiator:

    Trump is a typical Republican

    Nnnnoooo, but he IS the true embodiment of the Republican base, and exactly what they’ve been looking for all these years. I reserve the possibility Trump may change their mind to wanting a harder, more focused and competent fascist open white supremacist, but I am convinced they wanted a senile dimwit this time.

  58. 58.

    tobie

    Didn’t our Frenemy Pakistan help North Korea develop a nuclear weapon? Are they now working with North Korea to help them develop a reasonably sophisticated delivery system? Someone on the intertubes mentioned that Iran is helping them with reentry technology but I would assume Pakistan is in a better position to sell them that info.

  59. 59.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NotMax: I think that is very, very interesting. I’ll be interested to see if he can pull it off. The Revolutionary Guards and Quds Force portion of them have a lot of political, economic, and military power.

  60. 60.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m not sure why you’d be teasing me. I have repeatedly stated that I do NOT know Kelly. Have never met him. Have never provided support to any of his commands or, as far as I know, anyone on his staffs. Was not consulted on his appointment to DHS. Was not pleased with what he empowered while there. And was not consulted on his appointment as COS.

    I don’t think or have said that you are in anyway responsible for Kelly’s actions or his appointment.

  61. 61.

    Peale

    @NotMax: Yet Kissinger is raising the Alarm that the fall of ISIS means a Radical Iranian EMPIRE from Tehran to Beirut!

  62. 62.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @debit:
    Millions of North Koreans die along with some South Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, and Russians due to radioactive fallout. A limited nuclear winter depending on how many kilotons/megatons are expended. The US will become an international pariah due to basically committing genocide. And millions will die worldwide from famine.

  66. 66.

    Jeffro

    @Ian G.:

    Stein is as much on Putin’s payroll as Trump. A successful reclamation of our country from Russian interests would see her playing poker with Robert Hanssen at the Supermax.

    Agree in sentiment, probably a waste of taxpayer dollars to send her to Supermax. A couple zip ties and a desert island?

  67. 67.

    Another Scott

    @N M: Cheney and his crew were “good” at that – leak stuff to the NYTimes then go on the Sunday shows and talk about “the NYTimes says”…

    Donnie’s too addled to think that far ahead. His minions are too busy backstabbing to have a consistent message.

    What’s really up? Who knows…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    So…looks like North Korea was able to successfully complete the “Iraq” equation (nukes + ICBM = no US invasion). They certainly learned the lesson well – thanks W!

    Calmer, smarter, cooler heads would take this opportunity to speak to the American people and remind them that even if the DPRK could float a nuke over to US shores, we could repay them a thousandfold. We’ve been under nuclear threats before and are still. And then perhaps – a bit of a stretch, but maybe – these calmer, smarter, cooler heads could also note that in fact, North Korea has been acting rationally and will likely continue to do so, especially if we (the US) commit to working closely with China.

    Ok, maybe that’s more than a bit of a stretch…

  81. 81.

    Immanentize

    Excellent suggestion, but getting chomped by the alien was more Justice than Hicks could have mustered. I love that movie.

  85. 85.

    Chris

    @tobie:

    Correct.

    The A. Q. Khan network was caught proliferating Pakistani nuclear tech to North Korea, Iran, and Algeria, IIRC. They never conclusively proved whether it was him or his government, but as the father of Pakistan’s bomb, he can’t be punished much either way. He’s a national hero.

  86. 86.

    Mary G

    I miss President Obama so much. So angry at the 62 million idiots who got us into this disaster.

  88. 88.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @debit:
    I don’t know that for sure. Or I don’t know the procedure or protocol. My impression has always been ultimate authority to launch nukes has been with the president and since the late Cold War, has had a “hair-trigger” response built into the system (which almost led to global nuclear war in 1983, thanks to mistakes made by Soviet early warning systems). I would sincerely hope someone in the WH (Kelly, McMaster?) would physically restrain him if it came to that.

  89. 89.

    NotMax

    @Jeffro

    While progress is afoot, the missiles they’re using remain buffed up SCUDs, approaching or exceeding inherent design limitations.

    One could launch a DC-3 into orbit given enough thrust. Controlling and utilizing it is another thing as is having it re-enter intact and operational.

  91. 91.

    Adam L Silverman

    @debit: I doubt a preemptive strike would be authorized. I’m also not sure an attempted strategic nuclear strike would make a difference given where I understand the DPRK has placed their assets. But these types of effects are not my areas of expertise.

    We’ve passed the point of preventing the DPRK from breaking out. The point now is to utilize the other levers of national power, in concert with regional friends and competitors, to deescalate the crisis so that while the DPRK has this capability it doesn’t use it – preemptively, offensively, and/or defensively.

  93. 93.

    Mike J

    @Jay S:

    Wait a minute, North Korea has cruise missiles? Who is the supplier?

    They’ve had extended range scud for a long time, but that’s not the alarming bit. ICBMs are a much bigger threat than cruise missiles. Cruise missiles are basically unmanned airplanes that fly to a target. ICBMs launch into space and come back down thousands of miles away very quickly.

    Want to be more scared? The US military has interceptor missiles in Alaska. Suppose DPRK fires a single missile at us. US launches a half dozen interceptors. One of them hits. Hooray nuke strike averted! The other 5 interceptor missiles continue flying toward Russia and China, looking like an inbound strike on their radar.

  98. 98.

    LAO

    @Adam L Silverman:

    We’ve passed the point of preventing the DPRK from breaking out. The point now is to utilize the other levers of national power, in concert with regional friends and competitors, to deescalate the crisis so that while the DPRK has this capability it doesn’t use it – preemptively, offensively, and/or defensively.

    What is your level of optimism regarding the administration’s ability to deescalate the situation?

  101. 101.

    MattF

    As for the efficacy of economic sanctions, people should recall the North Korean famines of the 1990s. The regime is not going to be daunted by economic threats.

    In addition, Korea is in a bad geographic neighborhood, and Koreans are accustomed to dealing with larger and more powerful neighbors. A major theme of Korean history is its response to attempts at subjugation by surrounding powers. It’s been tried repeatedly.

  102. 102.

    Sloegin

    NK was a client-state of the Soviet Union in the cold-war days, no reason not to speculate that they’re getting all their recent tech advances directly from Putin. Who needs to bother with all the 3rd world middle men?

  103. 103.

    Yutsano

    @Adam L Silverman: Rouhani will have to go very carefully here. The Revolutionary Guard have not only many fingers in many pies in Iran they can also make life really bad in the Middle East and the West. But Rouhani also has a popular mandate that will be hard to contest. But it’s gonna be interesting. Hopefully not in the Chinese sense.

  104. 104.

    NotMax

    BTW, Adam, s-h-o-m-i (sans the hyphens) has returned, yet again, as “nightranger.”

    Just a heads-up.

  105. 105.

    Seth Owen

    An nuclear first strike against NK would instantly end the global acceptance of US hegemony. Even our friends would likely join a coalition against us and we would face the kind of pushback Napoleon and Hitler did.

    I think this is highly unlikely though. I think it would just be a horrific conventional war.

  106. 106.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman:

    We’ve passed the point of preventing the DPRK from breaking out. The point now is to utilize the other levers of national power, in concert with regional friends and competitors, to deescalate the crisis so that while the DPRK has this capability it doesn’t use it – preemptively, offensively, and/or defensively.

    Hmm, here’s a start:

    Calmer, smarter, cooler heads would take this opportunity to speak to the American people and remind them that even if the DPRK could float a nuke over to US shores, we could repay them a thousandfold. We’ve been under nuclear threats before and are still. And then perhaps – a bit of a stretch, but maybe – these calmer, smarter, cooler heads could also note that in fact, North Korea has been acting rationally and will likely continue to do so, especially if we (the US) commit to working closely with China.

    I am picturing Orangemandias trying to address the nation about DPRK and just can’t even…

  107. 107.

    Adam L Silverman

    @pamelabrown53: Survive. Both the ROK and Japan know there is no good military solution to this. A nuclear solution is going to destroy the ROK and do damage throughout the region through fallout. Japan, for historic reasons even though I got busy and missed the Hiroshima anniversary so didn’t put up a post, is nuclear weapons use averse. The new president of the ROK ran on detente with the DPRK. The real question is who is left at State and Energy that has Korea experience and non-proliferation experience and whether either Secretary Tillerson or Secretary Perry, or the folks around them, will listen to these folks.

  108. 108.

    debit

    @Adam L Silverman: Okay. I asked because I remember the reports from his first briefings before the election where he persisted in asking why we didn’t just use our nukes. Add to that his reported impatience with his daily briefings, his desire to just make problems go away, his need for a “win” and I can just see him doing it.

  112. 112.

    The Dangerman

    Seems like we are at Threat Level Fred Thompson (this business will get out of control; it will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it)

  115. 115.

    Peale

    @Jeffro: IDK. Not certain how we’re supposed to play this if we want cooler heads to prevail. We definitely can’t use the work “can’t”. Need to be positive since the white voters clearly voted against pointy headed knowledgeable people who said “can’t” too much. So no, “Hey, you can’t do that! It will kill millions of people and destroy the country of South Korea, which is a long time ally of the US.” See, if we say that, and it may be true, they’ll just go ahead anyway like they did in Iraq because we’ll sound too much like experts.

    My guess is that Trump will just use this as an excuse to extract trade concessions from South Korea plus payments for protecting it and we’ll move on.

  121. 121.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:
    I was assuming that Trump would strike “tomorrow” while the DPRK doesn’t have that missiles capable of reentry and reaching the US. I suppose cruise missles could reach Japan. The ROK is a given, obviously.

  122. 122.

    NCSteve

    The real tools that need to be used here are diplomatic, economic, and informational national power.

    I’m sorry, but no. We have no tools. We haven’t had any tools since Bush and the idiot neocons stamped out the Clinton approach because Everything Clinton Did Was Wrong, declared North Korea part of the Axis of Evil and then showed the Kims what Umerika does to Axis of Evil countries.

    Okay, we have one tool. But it’s the only tool we’ve ever had–deterrence. For a while, and possibly permanently given the economy-wrecking numbers of delivery platforms it would take to overcome it and the relative shortage of places to base them, we’ll have a credible ABM option to add to the strategic uncertainty and they are never going to send out another sub that doesn’t pick up a Virginia or a Los Angeles tail as soon as its out of port. But that’s just part of the deterrence model.

    The really question is whether they’ll have the sense to just use the capability as a regime-insurance policy, or whether they’ll be able to resist using nukes to engage in blackmail, a thing that would come naturally to them. Or as a shield for adventurism which is, frankly, what the U.S. and Russia do. That’s when things get ugly.

    Or, it’s when they would get ugly if we didn’t have a mentally ill libertine with penis -size issues for a president.

  123. 123.

    LAO

    @LAO: From the Vice article:

    But the production of a folder with just positive news — and the use of the RNC to help produce it — seemed abnormal to former White House officials. “If we had prepared such a digest for Obama, he would have roared with laughter,” said David Axelrod, the senior adviser to Barack Obama during his first two years in the White House. “His was a reality-based presidency.”

  124. 124.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Yarrow:
    There would likely be little effects to global climate, if there was a targeted nuclear strike on the DPRK. Even at the height of the Cold War in the 1980s, a “nuclear winter” would have been mild and lasted for a few years to a decade.

    The Effects of a Global Thermonuclear War
    4th edition: escalation in 1988

    http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/nuclearwar1.html

  125. 125.

    randy khan

    Actual re line on an email I just received from the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee:

    climate change BANNED

    If only it were that easy.

    (Of course, it’s talking about the story that reported that that Administration wants USDA staffers to use words other than “climate change” to describe, well, climate change.)

  126. 126.

    HeleninEire

    I’m in the bar at my favorite restaurant and a patron just asked the bartender to switch the TV from the NK news to sports. Europe is mortified.

  127. 127.

    mai naem mobile

    Aaah bet thoae paypuhl frum that Waste Virginny rally last week aaarw real happen that there’s a reel manly man in the WH right naow dealing with thIS Lil Red Chineez guy with the funny hair.

  128. 128.

    Tenar Arha

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah. I don’t think he’s in there to control the Presnident or his family. Based on a Twitter thread I was reading yesterday, I pretty sure he’s in there to control (and try to buffer) the staff, and I think maybe translate the amorphous demands and impulses of Twitler into actual policy, just like he did at DHS. Both are bad, but the latter is worse.

  129. 129.

    Amir Khalid

    @LAO: Trump was a much lesser man than Obama when he began making those preposterous birther claims, and even lesser when he won the Presidency. Now he is diminishing faster and faster. These days he fits into a foreign dictator’s pocket.

  131. 131.

    Tenar Arha

    @Adam L Silverman: Oops. That’s of course assuming that Kelly is capable of keeping the chaos at bay. Especially considering that the man has set up his companies and his life to generate chaos and zero sum games because he believes that it benefits him.

  133. 133.

    T S

    @Adam L Silverman: @schrodingers_cat: Adam has to take implications about his comments (said or unsaid) on other members of the military (especially high ranking officers) seriously. For the good of his career and his ability to fulfill his duties, he can’t have you (SC) putting words in his mouth, even if you didn’t intend to. It’s more important for him to strongly clarify that than to play nice with you. That said, I’m not sure it was the most constructive response on Adam’s part to tell you that you “wouldn’t like” having a strong disagreement. I assume the best from him, but if I thought I were not in the wrong and someone said that to me, as long as it was just about using harsh words to put me in my place and nothing more, I honestly wouldn’t care. That’s the other person getting spun up without telling me why. That said, SC, I think you can accept he has good reasons, and Adam, can you accept that as a civilian it’s reasonable SC might not “get” why you responded in that way? (I’m not in the military, for clarity, so I can empathize with SC’s position more, but get that Adam has responsibilities that I don’t “get.”) Also, if I said something here that’s not quite right, I’ll gladly be corrected…but if I get jumped on unconstructively…fine…but I don’t think that’s helping anyone.

  134. 134.

    rumpole

    These leaks are in the “normal” category–the kind you leak when you want to go to war. Remember all of the leaking about WMD in Iraq? Look at it from the WH perspective–under siege, popularity plummeting, and no talent for solutions beyond “hulk smash”. And you have the example of Bush II, who won reelection. The case for bombing non-white people is being made, namely, that North Korea is a clear and present danger to the United States. We are so fucked.

  136. 136.

    Brachiator

    @SFAW:

    Lying Littledick IS a typical Republican, in most/all ways. He just turns the dementia/insanity up to 11.

    Nope. Sorry. The insanity and rage make all the fucking difference. Trump is using the GOP for his own ends, especially his personal rage against Obama. He could give less than a rat’s ass about the Republican platform. In his personal life, he has been a Democrat and an Independent.

    He saw that the best way to achieve what he wanted was to hijack the GOP clown car.

  138. 138.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Okay, everyone
    CALM
    THE
    FUCK
    DOWN
    as someone else said the other day (Mistermix? Doug?)

    1. I have big doubts about this report.

    2. The DPRK wants nukes as defense. They are not going to toss them at anyone who isn’t tossing stuff at them first.

    3. Trump seems to be otherwise occupied today.

    Do you want me to expand this into a post? Here are some good references if you are willing to click through – c’mon, it’s not that hard.

    My estimate of North Korea’s nukes

    A longish interview of Sig Hecker about North Korea.

  143. 143.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @rumpole:
    Bush ll had more competence in his pinkie than Trump has in his entire body

  145. 145.

    Another Scott

    @A Ghost to Most: BI – NK nuclear weapons to reunite Korean peninsula:

    […]

    North Korea would not need intercontinental ballistic missiles to strike South Korea, whose capital sits just 35 miles from their shared border. Pyongyang has had the ability to detonate nuclear devices in Seoul via short- and medium-range ballistic missiles for years. There’s also reason to question the wisdom of nuking a proud, democratic city of 25 million people before attempting to rule it.

    What an ICBM does for North Korea is establish deterrence in the event of a reunification campaign.

    Kim Jong Un thinks “the nuclear weapons will prevent US from getting involved,” Sun said. “That’s why we see more and more people making the argument that the North Korea’s nuclear development is not aimed at the US, not aimed at South Korea, but aimed at reunification.”

    Luckily, the prospect of North Korea invading the South is slim.

    […]

    They want a credible threat. But they know if they think they have to use it, they have lost.

    (via Jody Lieberman at TheBulletin)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  146. 146.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: Yes, the President does. What we don’t know is whether between the Chief of Staff, the SecDef, and the National Security Advisor a contingency has been put in place to verify any order with them. Given the reporting that Mattis and Kelly made an arrangement that one of them always had to be in the US in DC if the other was on official travel or leave as a contingency is a telling indicator that some contingencies have been put in place.

  147. 147.

    burnspbesq

    @Ian G.:

    A successful reclamation of our country from Russian interests would see her playing poker with Robert Hanssen at the Supermax.

    I sincerely believe that Supermax confinement is cruel and unusual per se, but I did chuckle at that thought.

  151. 151.

    Brachiator

    @Frankensteinbeck: RE:
    Trump is a typical Republican

    Nnnnoooo, but he IS the true embodiment of the Republican base, and exactly what they’ve been looking for all these years. I reserve the possibility Trump may change their mind to wanting a harder, more focused and competent fascist open white supremacist, but I am convinced they wanted a senile dimwit this time.

    Disagree. The Republicans thought they could play Trump. They still think so. He may care about his family, and especially about his beloved Ivanka, but he is not the embodiment of anything but his own apolitical ego.

  152. 152.

    Peale

    @Cheryl Rofer: Yeah. I’m sure he’ll understand. Since he clearly thinks the opioid crisis is caused by too many illegals from central america in the country and not doctors prescribing oxycontin for toothaches, I’m sure the solution will really tackle the problem.

  153. 153.

    HeleninEire

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh they’re (we’re) not mortified about dying. They (we) are mortified about how the US is acting.

    ETA: Europe has faced many real dangers but they always assumed America would do the right thing.

  154. 154.

    Adam L Silverman

    @T S: She and I email, and have emailed about this, offline. All is well. Or as well as it can be given it’s Tuesday.

  155. 155.

    Woodrow/asim

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thanks for this. I think there’s a lot of risk around NK, (Said Mr. Obvious), but this is starting to remind me of the unhelpful commentary/reporting we got around Iran and its nuke ambitions.

  156. 156.

    burnspbesq

    @dmsilev:

    But who is the Lord High Executioner? Jeff Sessions?

    He’d like to be, but the role was written for a baritone, not a castrati.

  157. 157.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: He’s not making a statement or doing a briefing. The White House comms shop clarified that he’ll be receiving a briefing by Secretary Price. They may be a brief press gaggle or photo spray. It was not the best worded of tweets.

  159. 159.

    PPCLI

    This Fox report that Trump just RT’d cites anonymous sources discussing classified U.S. intel assessments.

    I assume the Justice Dept will be issuing subpoenas to the Fox and Friends crew by workday’s end.

  161. 161.

    MomSense

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I don’t find that especially comforting since they are both unelected generals. Really we are talking about a horrible contingency in place because the president’s senior staff are openly acknowledging that he is unfit to carry out his responsibilities. Let’s set aside the collusion, grand jury, and all of those issues we have a president who is unfit and his national security and senior executive staff know it. At what point is his instability a domestic threat that requires formal action?

  162. 162.

    Adam L Silverman

    @HeleninEire:

    Europe has faced many real dangers but they always assumed America would do the right thing.

    I think I’ve identified the logical flaw in this theory.

  163. 163.

    Adam L Silverman

    @PPCLI: If I saw that Doocey guy near a playground or a school I’d call the cops. That dude is the poster guy for creepy.

  168. 168.

    Brachiator

    @Adam L Silverman:

    He saw Fox and Friends report on it then retweeted their tweet about the segment. This is not a disclosure not through established channels based on Intel Community review, rather it is disclosure via cable morning show.

    So, Trump is still at the center of his own chaos.

  171. 171.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Woodrow/asim: I need to read the WaPo article again, but there are a number of things I’d like to know about the report it is based on.
    1) Who wrote it?
    2) Who is it for?
    3) Does it say that North Korea can build or has built missile-ready warheads?
    4) What is the method of assessing the numbers of nuclear warheads?

    I know that most of that won’t be made public, but those are the questions the reporters should have asked. Perhaps they did and got “no comment” answers. I’d also like to know if this report has to do in some way with some agency’s funding. It was one nutty CIA agent who drove the assessment of Saddam Hussein’s aluminum tubes, to the exclusion of the assessments by the people who actually know how to make centrifuges.

  173. 173.

    HeleninEire

    @Adam L Silverman: I am sure you know this Adam, but for others here: Churchill (half American) said “America always does the right thing. After they exhaust all the other possibilities.”

  178. 178.

    Wapiti

    @Cheryl Rofer: That Sig Hecker interview is …reassuring. I believe he’s made several trips to NK and has some insight. Though I’m sure they showed him what they wanted him to see, he’s a smart guy and knows that. (disclaimer/brag: my wife worked for him at Stanford/CISAC.)

  179. 179.

    Brachiator

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The DPRK wants nukes as defense.

    This doesn’t make sense to me. Strictly speaking, their nukes might be more of a counter-offensive. It’s not going to defend against anything, nor would they necessarily cause an antagonist to relent or slow their own attack. DPRK often talks big about overwhelming South Korea. How is that defensive?

    They are not going to toss them at anyone who isn’t tossing stuff at them first.

    They seemed, with some reason, to be obsessed with the US. If they US launched a nuclear attack on North Korea, how much time would they have respond? What capability would they have to use against an antagonist?

  180. 180.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: No argument. I am in 100% agreement that the DPRK, and especially Kim, think they are clearly, and with embedded rationality pursuing and messaging deterrence against what they are concerned is a more aggressive US as a result of the 2016 election. As we’ve discussed many times the issue is whether the message being transmitted is being received and understood in line with how those transmitting it mean it to be received and understood.

    @Cheryl Rofer: I just saw the clip of the President’s answer regarding the DRPK news at the photo spray at the briefing he’s receiving. His body posture, his tone, his facial expression, and his movement all showed incredible anger and hostility. It remains to be seen if the message being sent is being received.

  183. 183.

    Mnemosyne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    FWIW, I think most of us freaking out are on the West Coast and (theoretically, on a good day, assuming the rockets actually work) are within range.

  187. 187.

    Mnemosyne

    @Peale:

    The primary drive of Trump voters is, You’re not the boss of me. Any appeal to them will have to take that into account.

  188. 188.

    Tenar Arha

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, no, I realize that. I remember you mentioning that you had no interactions with Kelly too, so you couldn’t really advise us on whether it was plausible. Just sharing because I thought it was of interest.

    Based on fact of Kelly was a Marine and how unfortunately effective he was at DHS, I was more than a little shocked that he would accept the position of COS when his boss is the primary generator of the chaos in the WH. The ideas my comment was based on helped me understand why he’d even accept the job in the first place. I think he’s actually trying to realize the worst impulses of this maladministration. He’s the effective subordinate who’s willing to just get to work translating the latest vague statement into an actual policy…no matter what.

    ETA that actually scares the heck out of me. That makes me think of preventing Jewish German Citizens from serving, the Nuremberg laws, or the Final Solution. And then the Judges Trials after the war which showed how complicit they were.

  189. 189.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Wapiti: Sig has made several trips to North Korea. They invited him because, it looked like, they wanted to work with the United States in the same way that the United States worked with Russia and other countries of the former Soviet Union after 1991. Sig was one of the primary movers of that program. The DPRK showed him some of their plutonium and then, later, their centrifuge facility. My sense is that they were saying “Yes, you can certify that we’re really doing these things. We’d rather work with you, but we can go it alone too. (disclaimer/brag: I worked with Sig from about 1989 through about 1995.)

  191. 191.

    GregB

    This appears me like more hyperbolic causus belli for Trump to do what he dreams of doing. Becoming a consequential war president.

    A Winston Dick-Hill if you will.

  192. 192.

    Jay S

    @Cheryl Rofer: All this may be true about N. Korea’s capability and intentions but we rely on Trump being made to understand and agree that they are not a threat that is “easy” to fix. The quote you just put up from the press pool is not reassuring.
    ETA or what Adam said.

  193. 193.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Brachiator: I was using the word “defense” generally. To be more technical, deterrence.

    They seemed, with some reason, to be obsessed with the US. If they US launched a nuclear attack on North Korea, how much time would they have respond? What capability would they have to use against an antagonist?

    The purpose of a US attack on North Korea would be to destroy their capability to respond. However, we don’t know where all their installations are, and some of their missiles are mobile. A reason that a preventive attack is a poor idea is because, for one reason or another, we would miss some of their capabilities.

    The report cited in the WaPo article seems to imply that they have some missiles ready to launch. (I still need to reread it.) The most likely targets are American bases in South Korea and Japan. If they have an extra-special ICBM with nuke, they would likely target US west coast cities.

  199. 199.

    germy

    Trump says North Korea ‘will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen’

    Looks like a job for Professional Diplomat John Bolton

  200. 200.

    dmsilev

    @Cheryl Rofer: He certainly is living down to expectations, isn’t he? It’ll be a special miracle if we make it through the Trump Regime without at least one unnecessary war because he feels the need to prove how big his …hands are.

  202. 202.

    dmsilev

    @germy: No, if Trump wanted Bolton, he’d threaten NK that they’d be met with a mustache like the world has never seen.

  204. 204.

    Jeffro

    Now would be an incredibly excellent and wonderful time for China to step in and help Twitler understand the DPRK’s logic here – “you are belligerent; we are trying to defend ourselves so that we don’t end up like Iraq.”

    South Korean and Japanese officials are welcome to chime in as well, saying they are not happy with developments, but they get – sort of – North Korea’s position. (No really, South Korea & Japan, feel free, go ahead…quickly…)

  205. 205.

    SatanicPanic

    @germy: let’s be real though, Trump threats are usually pretty idle. Hopefully North Korea understands this.

  206. 206.

    Gin & Tonic

    I’m leaving for Europe tomorrow. Will my return ticket still get me anywhere in two weeks’ time, or should I pack another bag?

  207. 207.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It remains to be seen if the message being sent is being received.

    I’m sure Trump was angry. He has no experience dealing with people who have a power base of their own.

    To be honest, I have no idea what message is being sent, nor, I suspect, does Kim. Rex Tillerson said early on that there would be no talks until North Korea gave up its nuclear program entirely. Yesterday he said that talks would be possible if North Korea paused the current series of missile tests. (How would you know that? Maybe they are finished with that series now?) What does that latest quote even mean? Trump would loose “fire and fury like the world has never seen”? Does that mean the red face you saw with that statement? Nukes? Given Seoul’s proximity to North Korea, Kim can see him on that and raise him. And in response to what? What constitutes a threat?

    We’ve all been in situations where we spouted off and had to take it back. Speaking off the top of one’s head in anger does not make for coherence. That’s why a normal president has experts around him and a State Department to construct statements that don’t please the red-meat base, but convey a message as accurately as possible to other nations. That’s not what just happened.

  208. 208.

    germy

    @SatanicPanic:

    Hopefully North Korean understands this.

    I fear they don’t. I worry they’re getting increasingly alarmed by everything he says.

  209. 209.

    Jeffro

    Also, provided we don’t get a nuclear war started here, does that count as more positive news for the president*’s twice daily “good feelings” folder?

    Beginning at 6 a.m. every weekday — the early start is a longtime war room tradition — three staffers arrive at the RNC to begin monitoring the morning shows on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News as they scour the internet and newspapers. Every 30 minutes or so, the staffers send the White House Communications Office an email with chyron screenshots, tweets, news stories, and interview transcripts.

    White House staffers then cull the information, send out clips to other officials, and push favorable headlines to a list of journalists. But they also pick out the most positive bits to give to the president. On days when there aren’t enough positive chyrons, communications staffers will ask the RNC staffers for flattering photos of the president.

    Please, history, I beg of you: let future generations know every pathetic man-baby aspect of this, um, man-baby.

  211. 211.

    Iowa Old Lady

    OMG, I am so sick of being subjected to this man’s stupidity. Fuck every single person who voted for him.

    I am having a glass of wine now and it’s only 3:00.

  215. 215.

    Immanentize

    @Cheryl Rofer: First, Cheryl, I love your posts and comments.
    Second, if NK has a “special ICBM” targeting the US, I suspect their tech is such that it would be a hail Mary play at best (Like Iraq’s weak SCUD attack on Israel). Low probability of success. Huge damage potential if it worked.

  216. 216.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @SatanicPanic:

    let’s be real though, Trump threats are usually pretty idle. Hopefully North Korean understands this.

    I think more countries are beginning to understand this. Not clear whether that includes North Korea.

  219. 219.

    dmsilev

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    I am having a glass of wine now and it’s only 3:00.

    So tempted to join you, but I’m at work and am at least vaguely expected to set a good example for the young ‘uns.

  223. 223.

    Immanentize

    @SatanicPanic: Everyone understands Trump’s threats are general bloviation. That is why they all mock him. Until he carries out one of these crazy things….

  226. 226.

    Immanentize

    @Gin & Tonic: They do have places you can wash your clothes in Europe, y’know. ?

    My rule of thumb is five days of clothes is good for a month.

  228. 228.

    ? Martin

    Honestly, after Iraq, I want to see another country confirm this. It’s not that I don’t trust our intelligence agencies – it’s that I don’t trust the political layers above the intel agencies to not lie about what the intel agencies actually conclude.

  232. 232.

    Mike in NC

    The idiot unemployed coal miners who elected Trump will never see their jobs return, but at the very least maybe they’ll be allowed to shelter in the mines when he starts WWIII.

  233. 233.

    ? Martin

    @Immanentize: That’s not the worry. What if NK doesn’t realize it? That’s what we should worry about. Or, at least SK and Japan should worry about.

  234. 234.

    Immanentize

    @germy: I disagree. They mock Trump all the time. They are in constant touch with the Chinese (and even the Russians). They are not as isolated as, say, Saddam was when he miscalculated Bush’s messaging. I think they have a very clear sense of Trump and the US.

  236. 236.

    MomSense

    @Iowa Old Lady:

    And when I stop and think that we ended up in this nightmare in part because of an attack by a hostile foreign power, I want to break things.

  239. 239.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @? Martin:

    Honestly, after Iraq, I want to see another country confirm this.

    Yes. The WaPo article is confusing on this point.

    The new analysis completed last month by the Defense Intelligence Agency

    but

    The IC [intelligence community] assesses

    In conjunction with the first quote, the article mentions a second assessment, which may be what the second quote refers to. But right now, we have selections from one or two (not clear) reports read to a reporter by anonymous sources.

    An assessment this week by the Japanese Ministry of Defense also concludes there is evidence to suggest that North Korea has achieved miniaturization.

    Bolding mine. This is not a very definitive conclusion, but I can agree with it.

    analysts have concluded

    Not clear if that is from the report, or if it’s someone on the reporter’s phone list.
    And then they have quotes from named people, including Sig Hecker, with whom I agree. Not more than 20-25 weapons; I think less. And don’t overhype the capabilities.

  240. 240.

    Yarrow

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Given the reporting that Mattis and Kelly made an arrangement that one of them always had to be in the US in DC if the other was on official travel or leave as a contingency is a telling indicator that some contingencies have been put in place.

    Yes. But if the President orders them to use nukes and the Generals say no, then it’s effectively a coup, right?

  241. 241.

    Immanentize

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    In the world of CALM THE FUCK DOWN we all must consider than DPNK has no experience guiding or landing anything anywhere with any accuracy. Again, hitting some place even as big as LA from where they launch is likely a crap shoot.

    We understand these limitations even about our own missiles. Hence, overwhelming counter-response capabilities and TRIAD.

  242. 242.

    trollhattan

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    “Fire and fury”? I like my alliterative threats in threes.

    Fire, fury and Fonzie?
    Fire, fury and flowbees?
    Fire, fury and fleas?
    Fire, fury and floozies?

    Dude’s weird. As to NK having a teeny working nuke, how many successful tests have they had total, and what size were the devices? F150-size, elephant-size, piano-size, microwave-size?

    I call fake leak.

  243. 243.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @trollhattan: The DPRK has done five successful tests of nuclear devices. All were relatively small, below 10 kilotons. I see no reason to believe that any of them were thermonuclear (hydrogen bombs), except for what is called boosting. That is one of the reasons I am dubious about this report.

    I have watched the video of Trump speaking. I don’t read as much anger in it as Adam does. His posture (arms crossed across chest) seemed more defensive than anything.

  244. 244.

    Lurking Canadian

    @Cheryl Rofer: He’s psyching himself up for a preemptive nuclear strike at North Korea. I don’t know what else “fire and fury” is supposed to mean. Crazy fucker is itching to be a war criminal.

  245. 245.

    Mj_Oregon

    I just watched the video of this “statement” by *45 on North Korea without the sound on. It made me very aware of his body language – arms tightly crossed across his body and without any of his usual flamboyant hand gestures. Anyone here have any body language interpretation experience that could weigh in on this. It seemed odd.

  247. 247.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Lurking Canadian: If the stuff I’ve seen from the right so far is any indication, they’re seeing Trump’s statement as “Righteous Fury”, “strength” and “determination”, not “Crazy dude that just plausibly threatened nuclear war over a threat.”

    Or maybe they DO see the 2nd one, but they think it’s the correct response. >_<

  248. 248.

    Chris

    @HeleninEire:

    That’s overstating things. I think the real shift in Europe’s view of the U.S. is that Europe has always (i.e. since 1945 or thereabouts) thought that the United States would have its back if shit got real (i.e. in the event of Russian aggression or some other existential threat – admittedly that wasn’t much concern after 1989, but the notion was still there in the back of everyone’s minds that should that kind of need arise, America would be there). If not for “doing the right thing” reasons, then because basic American pride and need to be # 1 would mean that it would never allow countries it viewed as under its thumb to be “lost” to a rival superpower with world-dominating ambitions of its own, like Russia.

    The idea that half of the American population hates the other half so much that it’s willing to risk committing superpower-suicide just to screw them/win elections, and hates its longtime allies so much that it might be willing to ally against them with the world’s leading fascist power in an Eric Cartman-esque fit of “screw you guys, going home!” is something they/we have never really had to take into consideration before.

  249. 249.

    boatboy_srq

    @Major Major Major Major: My GOP parents didn’t vote for Dem POTUS candidates because Wilson, FDR, Truman and LBJ got the US into WW1, WW2, Korea and Vietnam. Their logic was that the GOP hadn’t started a war since 1861. It took pointing out Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua, Iraq (2x) and Afghanistan to change that.

  250. 250.

    SFAW

    @Brachiator:

    He could give less than a rat’s ass about the Republican platform.

    And yet he keeps pushing their platform points, both the official and unofficial (such as wiping Dems off voter rolls). If it quacks like a duck, as they say.

    His purported “Dem” and “Independent” past is (A) immaterial and (B) questionable. He’s whatever he needs to be to “win” or to get people to fear/love him.

  253. 253.

    Morzer

    @Jeffro:

    A sharpened, reusable stake sourced in an environmentally friendly way seems like an acceptable bipartisan compromise.

  256. 256.

    J R in WV

    @Adam L Silverman:

    His body posture, his tone, his facial expression, and his movement all showed incredible anger and hostility.

    You left out the quaking from fear parts of his body language, which actually is scarier than the anger and hostility. I don’t think hostility and anger will affect Kim even a little bit. If Kim is as smart as he is crazy, the fear Trump showed will perhaps slow down Kim’s propaganda campaign.

    To me Trump looked like someone who went down the basement stairs second or third in the horror movie. Then he saw the boogie monster at the bottom of the stairs kill and eat the two heroes in front of him, managed to run away, and now is trying to look like the bravest person on the downstairs expedition.

    I’ll take another look. His facial expressions were harder to read than his body language… to me.

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