Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

After roe, women are no longer free.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Let there be snark.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

Why did Dr. Oz lose? well, according to the exit polls, it’s because Fetterman won.

Second rate reporter says what?

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

The words do not have to be perfect.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / #NotAllNazis* (Updated)

#NotAllNazis* (Updated)

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I must say, Team Trump has really tightened up their messaging strategy now that John Kelly is running the show:

He not only both-sides NAZIS, he equates removal of Confederate monuments to taking down statues of George Washington.

Good lord, what a staggeringly destructive buffoon.

ETA: Here’s the whole thing:

I just don’t know what to say.

*H/T to valued commenter Major Major Major Major

Reader Interactions

246Comments

  1. 1.

    MomSense

    Text “Resist” to 504-09 and tell your Senators that it is time to 25th amendment this whack job. He is unfit in every possible way and has to be removed from office.

  2. 2.

    dmsilev

    Does it count as a Pivot(tm) if you rotate around fast enough to drill yourself into the ground?

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    Also, too, it really frosts him that he was forced to make that statement yesterday, even though the actual Neo-Nazis got the subtext that he didn’t really mean what he was saying.

  4. 4.

    Roger Moore

    Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me, not all of those people were white supremacists.

    Some of them were just people who thought it would be fun to go to another city to riot with a bunch of Nazis and White Supremacists. Seems like a distinction without a difference.

  7. 7.

    mouse tolliver

    He can’t not be petty. Even before he debased the office by defending a Nazi rally, he was taking swipes at fake news.

  8. 8.

    Roger Moore

    @MomSense:

    tell your Senators that it is time to 25th amendment this whack job.

    Unfortunately, the Senate can’t start 25th Amendment proceedings. That’s up to the VP and the Cabinet.

  16. 16.

    efgoldman

    @Yarrow:

    Is this Peak Trump or will things get even worse?

    Peak Deadbeat Donnie is just like more general peak wingnut: a place never to be reached.

  19. 19.

    aimai

    Jeebus–that weird accusation that the confederates are identical to our founding fathers has been going the rounds on right wing/nazi sites. Unbefuckinglievable.

  20. 20.

    Kay

    I think the council members running away from him combined with New Yorkers laughing at him sent him ’round the bend.

    He’s not a stable person and that was a double whammy over 24 hours.

  21. 21.

    randy khan

    @Yarrow:

    Is this Peak Trump or will things get even worse?

    I have some trouble with the concept of “Peak” Trump, as it always seems like a downward spiral. And at the rate he’s going, the Marianas Trench isn’t deep enough to contain him.

  22. 22.

    MomSense

    @Roger Moore:

    But they can call for it. Somehow we have to get this thing rolling. The cabinet members never will and Pence is up to his lying eyes in the Russia mess so he won’t do anything.

  23. 23.

    Villago Delenda Est

    There are NO “fine people” who are Nazis, who are white supremacists, who are members of the KKK. They are all scum.

  24. 24.

    dmsilev

    I like the way he compared Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson to George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

  25. 25.

    randy khan

    @Kay:

    Donald, Jr. was there incognito, and reported back. He was the guy in the polo shirt and khakis.

  26. 26.

    khead

    I’m not sure how the post “He should have held the press conference in a doorway at the University of Alabama” put me in moderation. So I’m trying again.

  28. 28.

    El Caganer

    I don’t think he’s smart enough or educated enough to have thought of that phony comparison with the Founding Fathers. This sounds like something Bannon whispered in his ear.

  30. 30.

    TenguPhule

    @MomSense: The 25th has never been a real option available. Not with this clusterfuck. Our system of government was not designed to handle this level of Calvinball.

  31. 31.

    rk

    It’s amazing how he always makes things worse. Always. Without fail. I feel like I’m in an abusive house and that’s when I’ve not been personally effected by anything. But every single day is awful! How are we going to get through this?

  32. 32.

    dmsilev

    @MomSense: I don’t want him to leave via the 25th A escape hatch. I want him impeached and convicted, because it’s his actions and decisions that need to be condemned and disavowed, not simply “the man himself went crazy”.

  37. 37.

    David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch

    How can this be!. Just 14 days ago, our media betters promised us the 71 year old Drumpf would completely change his ways and become responsible after giving office office space to a retired general

  42. 42.

    Hal

    A former coworker who I’m friends with on Facebook posted one of those I don’t care if you’re yellow, brown, white kumbaya horseshit posts.

    She voted for Trump, but yes, we should all just get along. No sense of irony from Trump voters.

  48. 48.

    Laura

    He’s one of them. Full stop. The so-called president has never not been a racist, sexist, intellectually vacant, lazy, coddled, rampant bully.
    He may not be an actual nazi, but he is comfortable hiring them, agreeing with them, giving them political cover, will only grudgingly disavow them with fingers crossed behind his back.
    They are his base and he is their leader.
    Expecting anything different of him, and those who accommodate him is a fools errand.

  50. 50.

    the Conster, la Citoyenne

    Dignity wraith is the best description of Trump. He’s Nazi feces who smears it on everything and everyone he touches.

  52. 52.

    NorthLeft12

    Thank Dog that there are disciplined and competent people in the White House or Deadbeat Donald might say something even more ignorant and offensive.

    Bring back Reince!

  54. 54.

    Spanky

    Left without comment.

    From The Hill:

    The Lincoln Memorial in Washington was vandalized with red spray paint.

    The graffiti found on a pillar at the monument appeared to say “f— law,” the National Park Service told local station NBC 4 News.

    A preservation crew is already working to remove the graffiti, which was discovered early Tuesday morning, the NPS said.

  58. 58.

    MomSense

    @dmsilev:

    He can still be prosecuted once out of office. I’m just seeing someone who is capable of doing something catastrophic if he feels cornered.

  60. 60.

    Spanky

    @Laura:

    He may not be an actual nazi, but he is comfortable hiring them, agreeing with them, giving them political cover, will only grudgingly disavow them with fingers crossed behind his back.

    Which means he’s an actual Nazi.

  62. 62.

    LurkerNoLonger

    “Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me, not all of those people were white supremacists.”

    He’s right. Some of them were neo-Nazi sympathizers and white supremacist adjacent.

  65. 65.

    rikyrah

    He needed the facts?
    Since when?
    He didn’t need all the facts when he tweeted out that it was terrorism in Nice…or in Manchester….
    He called it terrorism in 2.2 seconds

  66. 66.

    Yarrow

    @Spanky: They’re going to have to have 24 hour security on the Lincoln Memorial. Those Nazi white supremacist types are going to try to destroy it. It’s Lincoln’s fault we don’t still have slavery, of course.

  67. 67.

    bystander

    I hope he’s feeling down in the dumps on the 90th floor. Having thousands of people chanting “New York hates you” outside your door can’t make for a good vibe.

  68. 68.

    TenguPhule

    @Spanky:

    Which means he’s an actual Nazi.

    Nazis had a better dress sense.

    He’s a brownshirt. The ones even the Nazis found too dangerous to leave around.

  70. 70.

    NorthLeft12

    @El Caganer: No I disagree with you, this is exactly what Deadbeat Donald would do. He does not have the intelligence to discern the difference between Confederate traitors/losers and Founding Fathers/Presidents.
    They are all old white guys who died a few hundred years ago, amirite?

  71. 71.

    Spanky

    Our Republican(!) Governor:

    Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) announced Tuesday that he wants to remove the statue of Roger B. Taney, a U.S. Supreme Court justice who penned in the infamous Dred Scott decision that black people cannot be U.S. citizens, from the grounds of the State House in Annapolis.

    “While we cannot hide from our history – nor should we – the time has come to make clear the difference between properly acknowledging our past and glorifying the darkest chapters of our history,” Hogan said in a statement. “I believe removing the Justice Robert B. Taney statue from the State House grounds is the right thing to do, and we will ask the State House Trust to take that action immediately,” Hogan said in a statement.

  72. 72.

    TenguPhule

    @Trentrunner:

    Kelly’s really shaped up this administration in no time…no time at all…

    What if this is the Kelly Shapeup? What if this is actually less worse then the alternative?

  73. 73.

    Peale

    Is this the “no labels” people again? Those who say “I hate to be called a Nazi, so why do we put them in a box, since label is just another word for coffin and besides I believe that the Chinese are superior to all races because they are the most racially pure so I’m not hectically a white supremacist, so shut up you social justice warrior.”

  74. 74.

    Betty Cracker

    @rk:

    How are we going to get through this?

    My husband and I were just talking about that. We have no fucking idea either.

  77. 77.

    Trentrunner

    @TenguPhule: Nope. There’s a great photo circulating of Kelly on the sidelines as Trump goes off, looking down and bereft and resigned.

  78. 78.

    Chris

    @Roger Moore:

    Yeah. I keep thinking that the big thing about this march is that they broke the taboo by actually being out-and-proud Nazis and Klansmen. Since the nineties, maybe eighties, it’s been basically acceptable on the right to be a full-on fascist loony, as long as you weren’t literally waving a swastika or wearing a white hood. You wore camo outfits instead of brownshirt uniforms, waved Gadsen flags instead of swastikas (Confederate flags were somewhat more risqué but also acceptable), bitched about big government and the UN instead of Jewish Conspiracies, and called yourself something like “patriot movement,” “oath keepers,” “constitutional sheriffs,” or “[something something] militia” instead of the Nazis or the Ku Klux Klan. And then your ass was covered and mainstream conservatives, the media, etc, would humor you in pretending that you weren’t a fascist, just a patriotic, libertarian, Christian eccentric, with controversial but interesting ideas, symptomatic of the arrogant urban liberal elites’ failure to listen to The People…

    Only the stars of yesterday’s rally were literal Nazis, waving literal swastikas and doing literal Nazi salutes. Which largely explains why there was so much pushback from conservative politicians. They’ve spent fifty years basically telling everyone that unless you’re literally a Nazi, it’s not fair to call you a racist, but… whoops.

    Trump seems to’ve realized this, which is why he’s now working overtime on the #NotAllNazis theme to move the message away from “holy shit, real Nazis” and back to “hold on, let’s be fair and hear out the Reasonable Ones.”

  79. 79.

    Spanky

    Somewhat related, sorta:

    The Bell 407 helicopter involved in the weekend crash that killed two Virginia State Police officers in Charlottesville crashed in 2010, officials at the National Transportation Safety Board confirmed Tuesday.

    That crash occurred in May 2010, when the helicopter lost power during a training flight. Two troopers were on board, but did not suffer serious injuries. The NTSB said that the probable cause of the crash was faulty maintenance, noting that the shop that had made repairs to the helicopter, which involved the replacement of a deflector plate, was not authorized to do such work.

  80. 80.

    JPL

    @Betty Cracker: Well I am happy that I bought that bottle of wine today. I’ll deal with the rest tomorrow.
    Saying that he’s a narcissistic maniac is being kind.

  81. 81.

    TenguPhule

    @Betty Cracker:

    My husband and I were just talking about that. We have no fucking idea either.

    6 months of food, a months worth of water and a full tank of gas are a good start.

  82. 82.

    Chris

    @Spanky:

    He may not be an actual nazi, but he is comfortable hiring them, agreeing with them, giving them political cover, will only grudgingly disavow them with fingers crossed behind his back.
    …
    Which means he’s an actual Nazi.

    This.

  83. 83.

    Villago Delenda Est

    From Andrew Stephen’s Cornerstone Speech:

    Our new government is founded upon exactly [this] idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

    The Confederacy explicitly REJECTED the sentiment of the Declaration of Independence. They were traitors, all of them. There is no question about this, there is no debate.

  84. 84.

    Timurid

    In other news, the alt-white has rallies planned all over the country this weekend, and Dear Leader has just flashed a green light…

  85. 85.

    TenguPhule

    @Trentrunner:

    There’s a great photo circulating of Kelly on the sidelines as Trump goes off, looking down and bereft and resigned.

    This is why I am a pessimist, every time I try to be hopeful it gets stomped down.

  86. 86.

    Chyron HR

    WAR! The United States is crumbling
    under attacks by actual literal Nazis.
    There are heroes on both sides.

  88. 88.

    zhena gogolia

    @El Caganer:

    If I might try to untangle the twisted logic, people have written about the fact that Washington and Jefferson owned slaves, etc., so this seems to be saying that taking down the monuments to the Confederates is a slippery slope toward taking down statues to Washington and Jefferson.

  91. 91.

    bemused

    My schedule of things that have to get done today went to hell when the presser started. I’m reading BJ, etc. while listening to msnbc and Rick Wilson on Randi Rhodes show.

    Panel on msnbc just exploded in disbelief after presser. One said Trump aides must have wanted to tackle Trump and haul him off stage. Rick Wilson said he thinks Trump is mentally ill. Duh!

  93. 93.

    Chris

    @TenguPhule:

    Not dangerous – they’d simply served their purpose. IIRC, the Night of the Long Knives was a result of Hitler coming under pressure on both sides, on the one hand from the brownshirts who’d been his early supporters and were actually somewhat economically populist, and on the other hand, the elites that he’d allied himself with to rise to power (the military, the aristocracy, the big industrialists, the clergy) and who wanted that vulgar rabble of agitators gone. He chose the latter.

  94. 94.

    TenguPhule

    @zhena gogolia:

    If I might try to untangle the twisted logic, people have written about the fact that Washington and Jefferson owned slaves, etc., so this seems to be saying that taking down the monuments to the Confederates is a slippery slope toward taking down statues to Washington and Jefferson.

    Statues are for winners.

  97. 97.

    Jeffro

    @Yarrow:

    This was something else.

    Is this Peak Trump or will things get even worse?

    Worse. The reporters are getting bolder, starting to ask better follow-ups. “Do you think George Washington and Robert E. Lee were the same?”

  99. 99.

    TenguPhule

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    nuclear war in Asia on hold while president encourages domestic fascists.

    I don’t think North Korea or China are going to give us a mulligan for talking as a free action while Trump fucks up at home.

    Just saying.

  103. 103.

    TenguPhule

    The only thing I can think of that would make this day worse would be for Iran to start lecturing our country about the need to keep our fanatics in check.

  106. 106.

    Chris

    @TenguPhule:

    More to the point, neither Washington nor Jefferson nor their British opponents were fighting over slavery. At the time, the mainstream position on both sides was still pro-slavery, and while the British would eventually abolish it before the Americans, it wouldn’t happen until the 1830s, more than half a century after the Revolution.

    The Confederates, on the other hand, not only were seceding primarily because of slavery but wrote exhaustively to leave absolutely no doubt that they were in fact seceding primarily because of slavery.

  107. 107.

    Lizzy L

    I’ve been hosting a conversation on my FB page. Here’s what I said:

    I’m trying to be nice, here, but if you’re one of those folks who think statues of Confederate generals in heroic poses should remain in city parks across the South because “they represent our history,” I strongly feel you haven’t thought this through. The men represented on those plinths were willing to commit treason against the USA to preserve their privilege to OWN human beings. Were they courageous as they fought for this ugly, corrupt system? Let us say yes, they were. Their courage doesn’t matter. It isn’t a defense. They were ready to tear the Union apart so that they could own people, buy people, sell people, torture people, rape people, degrade people. If you want a statue of Robert E. Lee in front of your City Hall, it should show him on his knees, weeping.

    Friend #1 responded:

    As long as these artifacts remain in our public sphere and are visible and revered, we will continue to have people who look on them with admiration and nostalgia. As opposed as I am to censoring history, maybe if we don’t have to have these guys around any more, they will fade from our collective memory. At least as people to be revered. When they are no longer literally on pedestals, on places like Monument Avenue in Richmond, they will begin to lose their attraction. And then, and only then, can we begin to look at them objectively, as people who did work to tear apart the union for economic reasons — economic reasons that enslaved, tortured, and killed human beings and set us on this horrible national path of institutionalized racism. That is my hope. I for one will be glad to see them destroyed.

    Friend #2 responded:

    Monuments are not history, they are historical commemoratives that idealize selected values associated with past events. To a great degree, they tell us more about the ideology and society of the people who sponsored them than they do the actual events that they portend to represent.

    I hope that conversations like this are happening all over.

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    @Kay: I’d call it a triple: forced to repute he ate his Nazi friends then laughed at by New Yorkers and deserted by the business community … remember he always envisions himself ad this super successful businessman, and desperately craves approval in New York

  114. 114.

    germy

    @zhena gogolia:

    I can’t watch it, does he seem really unhinged?

    He’s every fox news watching uncle or stepdad.

    Same talking points, same aggrieved beligerance.

  115. 115.

    Mike in NC

    Hey, it’s entirely possible many of those folks carrying tiki torches thought they were just going to a luau.

  118. 118.

    zhena gogolia

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The guy on the right looks as if he’s saying my little prayer, Господи, спаси нашу бедную Родину!

  119. 119.

    SimoHayha

    @Spanky: Yeah, well. I still want him well gone for screwing up a thousand other things (Baltimore metro line in particular). But how f*ed is 2017 that we have to be happy that Maryland has more than one anti-Nazi party?!

  120. 120.

    TenguPhule

    @Mike in NC:

    Hey, it’s entirely possible many of those folks carrying tiki torches thought they were just going to a luau.

    Hawaii wants absolutely nothing to do with this shitparade. We voted for Clinton.

  121. 121.

    jl

    @Betty Cracker: Impossible to tell at this point where the malice ends and the incompetence starts. Trump is making that problem far worse than it needs to be, and probably guaranteeing that civil disturbance and riots that result from protests and counter-protests have his name written all over them. I hope no one gets hurt. If GOPers in Congress had an ounce of sense, and have more room to distance themselves from racists and fascists than Trump does, they would hold some hearings on it to keep that toxic fool from leading the controversy into dangerous chaos. I doubt they will.

  122. 122.

    Jeffro

    @dmsilev: Oh I dunno…just after impeachment, removal, & conviction, I have “stroke out live on camera during some pro-Nazi rant” as a close second choice for how this ends.

  124. 124.

    A Ghost to Not

    Peak wingnut potentially involves widespread murder and mayhem. We are on the road, but no, we aren’t there yet.

    /damnkids

  127. 127.

    TenguPhule

    @jl:

    Trump is making that problem far worse than it needs to be, and probably guaranteeing that civil disturbance and riots that result from protests and counter-protests have his name written all over them.

    I knew Trump was going to cause Civil Breakdown. I didn’t think he’d do it using actual fucking Nazis though.

  129. 129.

    Jeffro

    @MomSense:

    I’m just seeing someone who is capable of doing something catastrophic if he feels cornered.

    Nickel bet that he verbally pardons – right there, from the podium – everyone who’s ever worked for him, the Trump Org, or his campaign.

  131. 131.

    TenguPhule

    @A Ghost to Not:

    Peak wingnut potentially involves widespread murder and mayhem. We are on the road, but no, we aren’t there yet.

    So we’re just determining how many victims meets the number threshold now?

  133. 133.

    bemused

    @zhena gogolia:

    Yes. He just let his freak flag fly free and totally undid what his aides tried to pretty up. He could not shut up! You just know he wanted to in the worst way and it was just a matter of time.

  134. 134.

    zhena gogolia

    To quote my liberal friends I had dinner with in June 2016 (scene was then caused in quiet little restaurant):

    but. her. e. mails

  135. 135.

    Chris

    @khead:

    Not All Nazis. I’ve heard that before.

    “Apparently, there were only six or seven Nazis in all of Germany. They must have worked very hard at their jobs!”

  136. 136.

    germy

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    John Kelly during the President’s Q and A at Trump Tower

    They look like the assembled group at the last scene in the movie “Downfall.”

  137. 137.

    TenguPhule

    “You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent,” Trump said. “No one wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now: You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.”

    This fucking guy.

  139. 139.

    Jeffro

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m thinking Confederate statue removals will also become flashpoints all over the South.

    Some will probably turn into the next Malheur Wildlife Reserve (or whatever the name of the place the Bundys took over was called). Let ’em camp out at the base of their favorite traitor’s statue for a few months and see if that doesn’t get a little old.

  142. 142.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Chris: the Confederates thought the Founders got it wrong

    This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”
    Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. […]
    I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

  143. 143.

    TenguPhule

    Trump called the driver of the car that killed counterprotester Heather Heyer, 32, and injured 19 a “disgrace to himself, his family and the country,” but he stopped short of declaring the action a case of “domestic terrorism,” calling that an exercise in semantics.

    I can’t even……FUCK HIM WITH A FUCKING RUSTY CHAINSAW.

  145. 145.

    bemused

    OMG, Kelly and the others look drained.

    I was struck how audible the media questions were during presser. Would I be crazy to wonder if msnbc suspected Trump would shoot off his real feelings and upped the volume for viewers and subsequent videos?

  146. 146.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @TenguPhule: Mr “Obama won’t speak the magic words!” said, you can call it whatever you want. Pretty sure that’s a quote.

  147. 147.

    Peale

    @TenguPhule: We should demand that he call it Radical Christian Terrorism. Why can’t he use those words? Christ. The right spent 8 years on the fainting couch over these “matters of semantics.”

  148. 148.

    Geoduck

    Checked the news channels- CNN and MSNBC are of course talking about Trump’s spewing. Fox.. doing a breathless report on how the Obama administration failed to deal with Russian election interference.

  149. 149.

    TenguPhule

    But he also made clear that he believed that some of the counterprotesters were armed and took aggressive actions that helped spark the violence.

    “What about the alt-left that came charging at the alt-right — do they have any semblance of guilt?” Trump said. “They came charging, clubs in hand, swinging clubs.”

    Tell me again how peaceful protests are going to work when this fucker is gaslighting it on national fucking television and his fucking base is going to believe him.

  150. 150.

    dmsilev

    @TenguPhule: This is, let us not forget, the same guy who spent months and months screaming that the semantics of using the phrase “radical Islamic terrorism” was the most important thing ever. I know you know this, but I think it best to be explicit.

  151. 151.

    Felonius Monk

    I just don’t know what to say.

    I do. In case nobody has said it yet (although I doubt that), FUCK DONALD TRUMP with an infected implement.
    I’d call him Shit for Brains, but Shit is smarter than he is.

  152. 152.

    Chris

    @TenguPhule:

    This from a guy (and a political party, for that matter) that spent the entire campaign saying that Obama’s antiterrorism strategy was awful simply because he wouldn’t say the correct words.

  153. 153.

    Keith P.

    Every time I take an afternoon nap, I wake up to a Trump shitstorm. Do I have some kind of special power, or are there just that many Trump shitstorms? I ask similar questions re my phone’s tendency to ring any time I go to the bathroom.

  154. 154.

    TenguPhule

    @Geoduck:

    Fox.. doing a breathless report on how the Obama administration failed to deal with Russian election interference.

    I am fully in Village’s camp at this point.

    Trials are a luxury that FOX is no longer entitled to.

  155. 155.

    germy

    “You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. No one wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now: You had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.”

    It’s like the comment section in my local newspaper online sprouted legs, ran for president, and won.

  156. 156.

    gene108

    @Laura:

    He may not be an actual nazi

    The only reason Trump’s not an actual Nazi is because he’s too lazy to read up on what being an actual Nazi would involve.

  159. 159.

    dmsilev

    @Geoduck: How long until the Fox News feed consists literally of an anchor looking at the camera and shouting LALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!! over and over again for an hour?

    October?

  162. 162.

    A Ghost to Not

    @TenguPhule:
    This is bad. It can get MUCH worse. I don’t believe we are at peak anything. The first cards have been played.’ One man showed he was willing to kill people who he considers “enemies”.
    Now we find out if they are still the gutless cowards we think they are, or if they go all in. I’m guessing gutless cowards, but preparing for all in.

  164. 164.

    Mnemosyne

    I’ll give Mango Mussolini this — I bet that there were quite a few frat boy Broflakes who thought that this was all fun and games until they got tear-gassed. The video games they play did not prepare them for the reality of being in the middle of a riot where most of the people around them hate their guts, and there were probably many sniveling phone calls to Mommy and Daddy to come make it all better.

    Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding, boys. Man up and accept the consequences of your poor judgement and choice of friends.

  165. 165.

    Jeffro

    @Geoduck: For what it’s worth, the Faux website has the Trump Tower news conference front and center. But yeah, Obama.

    (never mind that the info they’re discussing – Russians trying to interfere in our democracy – was ‘known’ by every American president since FDR. No mention of how Trumpov & Co. are the first time Mother Russia had willing enablers)

  168. 168.

    Gelfling 545

    @TenguPhule: From Marshall’s editorial at TPM
    “For any subject of controversy, the first question we should ask is: What is the person known for? How did they earn a place in our collective public remembrance?”

    I’d say if their main claim to fame is treason, no statue.

  170. 170.

    jl

    @TenguPhule: Spouting incoherent BS that is impossible to parse has its limits as a political communications tactic. Some presidents have used it as a tactic. Eisenhower told his aides when he was going to do it. But he could turn it on and off as it suited his purpose. Trump can’t do anything else.

    Problem is that everyone can see that, last weekend, the racists and fascists were clearly the party causing the problems from an illegal demonstration that was the Tiki torch parade at night, to shows of armed intimidation, to initiating violence, to producing a terrorist act from one of their members.

    And Trump still cannot give up his ‘many sides’ dodge. Looks bad and is actually probably worse. But from what he actually says, who can know for sure ?As I typed above, good way to create serious civil unrest and controversy with his name written all over it.

  171. 171.

    FlipYrWhig

    @germy: It really is SO MUCH like that. Complete with the stupid argument deployed for the millionth time as though it’s never been said before. “Oh yeah, well, whatabout…” SMH.

  172. 172.

    Mary G

    @Cheryl Rofer: A body language expert would have a field day with all four of those guys, two in the upset stomach position and two in the cover my balls position.

  173. 173.

    chopper

    @TenguPhule:

    did he actually use the word ‘semantics’? cause that’s a bit of a stretch for a guy with a 200-word vocabulary. maybe he said something like ‘that’s just a word argument’.

  175. 175.

    Jeffro

    @gene108:

    The only reason Trump’s not an actual Nazi is because he’s too lazy to read up on what being an actual Nazi would involve.

    True, but that leather-bound Mein Kampf looks bigly awesome on his nightstand, eh? Amirite?

    He probably got 10 pages in and had to go look at himself in a mirror or something…

  176. 176.

    Cheryl Rofer

    I’m afraid it’s too late, bucko.

    I saw a photo of Trump putting a piece of paper into his jacket pocket with a reasonable statement on it – like yesterday’s, implying that this aide is correct. But anyone on Trump’s payroll is complicit unless they resign now.

  179. 179.

    Jeffro

    @Quinerly: Oh, I think we’ve imagined some of it…calls for ‘his’ people to exercise their 2nd amendment rights and visit their local congressmen, media HQs, Dem party HQs…

    Whenever you’re ready, GOP…

  180. 180.

    TenguPhule

    @A Ghost to Not:

    Now we find out if they are still the gutless cowards we think they’re, or if they go all in. I’m guessing gutless cowards, but preparing for all in.

    Unfortunately, the two are not mutually exclusive.

    The Nazis just murdered a women is broad daylight. The one time a police overreaction to a march would have been not only justified but fucking helpful, they went in with kiddie gloves. Shit is getting real very fucking fast.

  181. 181.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Ivanka and Jared are, of course, blameless.

  183. 183.

    TenguPhule

    @chopper:

    did he actually use the word ‘semantics’?

    This is what he said.

    “You can call it terrorism. You can call it murder. You can call it whatever you want,” Trump said. “I call it the fastest outcome to a good verdict … You get into legal semantics. The driver of the car was a murderer. What he did was a horrible, horrible, inexcusable thing.”

    He was doing the sidestep with his bare ass hanging out for all to see.

  184. 184.

    Mike in NC

    General Kelly is thinking “this might be a good time to take up sniffing glue”. The Alt-Right has promised Charlottesville is just the beginning of their crusade against decency, and David Duke just tweeted another thank you note to Trump. Everybody knows he’s shedding crocodile tears. Such a disgrace.

  185. 185.

    Jeffro

    @Cheryl Rofer: We need an atonement scale of some kind, that helps wing nuts know how far they’ll have to go to get right with the rest of the country depending upon how early they renounced Trumpov.

    If it’s going to be a color-coded scale, they’re in the dark orange/light red zone, so they might wanna hurry up…

  187. 187.

    rikyrah

    @Kathleen:
    She is stable. When I got here today, she was getting dialysis. She is alert and recognized me, which is a relief. One day at a time. Took today off. Will go to work tomorrow, and maybe leave early.

  188. 188.

    Cheryl Rofer

    David Duke got it – I’m not going to embed the tweet, just quoting.

    Thank you President Trump for your honesty & courage to tell the truth about #Charlottesville & condemn the leftist terrorists in BLM/Antifa

  189. 189.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    We need an atonement scale of some kind, that helps wing nuts know how far they’ll have to go to get right with the rest of the country depending upon how early they renounced Trumpov.

    Involuntary servitude at a minimum for them.

  190. 190.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Chris:
    This was Reagan’s great contribution to American culture. He sold white America completely on the notion that racism was such a terrible thing to accuse someone of, people should be given absolutely every possible benefit of the doubt. You basically had to wear a Klan hood or say ‘nigger’ to be racist, and even then ‘I didn’t know’ could get you off. Nobody internalized this more than the national news, which is why it’s stunning they’ve started to even drop ‘nationalist’ and straight out talk about white supremacy.

  194. 194.

    Frankensteinbeck

    I want to add that I called this: Reluctant to condemn, forced to walk back by Kelly, then at some point he can’t hold it in anymore and he spews it all out, making things worse. It’s a well established pattern by now.

  195. 195.

    Quinerly

    @rikyrah:
    Thanks for this update. Sending positive thoughts. Was thinking about you today. Hoping for good news in a thread. Hugs from Poco and his kitty advisers.?

  196. 196.

    TenguPhule

    @Mike in NC:

    General Kelly is thinking “this might be a good time to take up sniffing glue”.

    I thought Heroin was the drug of choice for the army?

  198. 198.

    JCJ

    @jl:

    The Pivot Spiral

    Like an airplane spiraling down? The crash will be something to behold. Possibly the best ever.

  199. 199.

    jl

    @Frankensteinbeck: Reagan did have political skills and vision, which most of the time he put to bad ends. He really set up an effective template. Even a guy like Pence knows what to say, and Sessions knows what he has to do in order to keep the GOP race dodge going. Trump can’t wrap his head around it, and you can see that a few of the dimmest Congressional GOPers can’t either. Sorry if my comment seems very cynical, but it is GOP political wedge product, wasn’t my idea.

  202. 202.

    Chris

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Yep.

    And Nixon, before him. He created the modern Republican Party by running as the “I am not a racist, but…” candidate. A reasonable, moderate, common sense alternative between the wide-eyed Real Racists who followed George Wallace, and those dangerous social engineering Marxist extremists who followed the Democratic Party leadership. But Nixon’s career kind of futzed out, and he didn’t have Reagan’s (I’m told; I don’t see it) charm.

  208. 208.

    Mnemosyne

    @Geoduck:

    Fox.. doing a breathless report on how the Obama administration failed to deal with Russian election interference.

    They have to. They can’t let their viewers know that they were in on the scam the whole time. They now have to claim that they were fooled just like the rest of us.

  209. 209.

    Bobby Thomson

    The problem isn’t Trump. It’s the millions of people who were just nodding along to this shit.

  211. 211.

    Comrade Luke

    Great job normalizing “alt-left”, so that they could co-opt it and use it against anti-Nazi protesters, guys.

    Real good job.

  212. 212.

    Major Major Major Major

    @Jeffro: I meant on their side, too. A number of wingnuts disavowed him before the election, and they avoided this particular red zone, the rest did not and are pushing far into the invisible parts of the spectrum.

    @Comrade Luke: The hell are you on about, this would be like saying “great job normalizing ‘fake news’ so that Trump could use it as a cudgel against the mainstream media.”

  214. 214.

    TenguPhule

    @Jeffro:

    how about they just lose their franchise for a generation or two ?

    Then they wouldn’t learn anything.

    And all those fruits and vegetables would remain unpicked, the trash wouldn’t be cleaned up and all those potholes would remain unfilled.

    These fucking Republicans have always argued that backbreaking labor installs moral fiber. I say, let’s see if this is true. And even if it isn’t, at least the proper backs will be broken.

  215. 215.

    FlipYrWhig

    @jl: Exactly. It’s really not that hard to break out the Official Presidenting Manual and follow it. Even noted dimwit playboy doofus George W. Bush was adequate at it. Trump can’t do it _at all_. He’s stupid, he’s hateful, he can’t see, he can barely read, he doesn’t take constructive criticism, and he’s convinced himself that he can always follow his gut. What’s remarkable, looking back, is that his BEST performances as a credible president were during the debates–performances that were, graded against anyone else, terrible. That was his _peak_ at being a passable head of state.

  218. 218.

    Mike in DC

    It just occurred to me now. (More) People are going to die because of this. He just gave these racist shitbags the thumbs up to let their freak flags fly.

    If there is a hell, may he suffer there a very long time.

  220. 220.

    Roger Moore

    @TenguPhule:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m thinking Confederate statue removals will also become flashpoints all over the South.

    Like they weren’t already?

    They’ve been points of contention up to now, but they’ve been slow-burning fuses because the removals have been done officially with the kind of deliberate process- meetings, votes, etc.- that official action usually has. Yesterday, people got fed up with the slow action and decided to take matters into their own hands. If the statues are in danger of vigilante removal, it’s going to make things that much nastier and more contentious.

  221. 221.

    Quinerly

    @Mike in DC:
    And that same Hell for all that have enabled him, supported him, and the press who fluffed him for two years leading up to his election.

  222. 222.

    Tazj

    @Gelfling 545:

    I’d say if their main claim to fame is treason, no statue

    Exactly, this isn’t hard people. Lee committed treason and fought to protect slavery, statues are for those who’ve done something heroic and admirable. I know there were brave Confederate soldiers, but there were also brave German soldiers and the Germans don’t have statues of Hitler.

    Twitter is often insane but today seems especially crazy. People defending Trump’s remarks about George Washington(he owned slaves tomorrow will his statue be taken down?) to others claiming the alt-left is outside of Trump’s NYC residence plaining a purge of white people.

  224. 224.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Cheryl Rofer: This. Maybe it’s time for his cabinet to make a public statement and get out, for the sake of their own souls. Alternately, 25th amendment his ass as a clear and present danger to the country.

    @Cheryl Rofer: “Per Jared/Ivanka”, I think this is supposed to say.

  225. 225.

    MisterForkbeard

    @Major Major Major Major: Now, now. He’s just making the very reasonable point that we can’t ever talk about anything because Trump might take it out of context and lie about it on national TV.

    Clearly, we need to just stop all discussions of anything.

  226. 226.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Chris:

    The Confederates, on the other hand, not only were seceding primarily because of slavery but wrote exhaustively to leave absolutely no doubt that they were in fact seceding primarily because of slavery.

    They were in a twist because they couldn’t impose slavery upon the North – that’s what the Fugitive Act and the Dreed Scott ruling were supposed to do and Lincoln wouldn’t do it. The right to tell others what to do what was the State’s Right the Confederates were fighting for.

  228. 228.

    Chyron HR

    @Comrade Luke:

    Great job staying home on election day and surrendering the country to literal Nazis, Luke.

    This is presumably the part where you start shitting yourself and screaming about the doughnuts.

  229. 229.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Jeffro:

    dang voice texting…”repudiate”…

    He should have asked to refundiates them then.

    My god, that’s a horrific though; even Sarah Palin would make a better president than Trump.

  230. 230.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @germy:

    I expected trump to start yelling Fegelein! Fegelein!

    That would make an awesome press question if they had the wit to ask it

    “So Mr President, are we correct to understand Fegelein was organizing the Counter Protesters at Charlottesville?”

    And see if Trump bites and goes full Downfall.

  231. 231.

    Yarrow

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Chuck Todd, and I despise him, seems genuinely shaken

    Anyone, and that especially includes our media, who didn’t know this is who Trump is was seriously ignoring everything that happened throughout the man’s life and especially during the campaign. The media is guilty because they did not highlight any of it and treated him as a joke or hand-waved it all away in pursuit of ratings.

  233. 233.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    BTW; WTF is an “Alt-Left?” , there are the Greens, Anarachists and the Bernebros, but I have never heard anyone call themselves no would I call anyone “Alt-Left”.

  235. 235.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Mnemosyne:

    They have to. They can’t let their viewers know that they were in on the scam the whole time. They now have to claim that they were fooled just like the rest of us.They have to. They can’t let their viewers know that they were in on the scam the whole time. They now have to claim that they were fooled just like the rest of us.

    Hey, at lest they aren’t agreeing with Trump on this rubbish, Small mercies.

  238. 238.

    Villago Delenda Est

    So, is General Kelly Keitel, or von Stauffenberg?

    History will judge either way.

  239. 239.

    a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)

    @Keith P.:
    1. There are that many Trump shitstorms
    2. You are experiencing the results of a natural law involving telephones of any description and plumbing–baths, showers, toilets, dishwashing, whatever, if water is involved the phone will ring, typically when you are at the least convenient point in the process–leg-shaving, shampoo, holding a well-soaped casserole dish that needs two hands to manage, and so on.

  240. 240.

    gorram

    @Chris: Uuuuuhhhh, unfortunately, a lot of the Revolutionary War “heroes” were in fact quite vocal about anxieties that the UK government could take away their slaves just as easily as it could raise taxes. The inciting issue for the revolution, arguably, was the restriction against “settling” indigenous land. I get not wanting to give these fascists credit, but there’s a very real way that both the framers and the confederacy had horrible, racist motivations that we need to structure society ot pull us away from.

  242. 242.

    J R in WV

    @zhena gogolia:

    But that perspective is twisted. None of the founding fathers (slave holders or not) ever declared war on the United States of America. Lee, and Jackson, and Davis, etc, etc all did.

    The founders of the Confederacy were active traitors to their oaths of office, to their nation, the United States. Treason is different from mere immorality, that is, holding slaves. Both crimes against humanity, but not the same crime at all.

  243. 243.

    BroD

    “They came charging, clubs in hand, swinging clubs.”

    I was there on the back nine. I saw it. it was ghastly.

  244. 244.

    J R in WV

    @TenguPhule:

    No, no. They issue uppers, meth type drugs, so you can fight for days and days. How do you think those pilots fly 30 hours missions?

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