The stuff is hitting the fan too fast for me, but here are tonight’s developments, each of which might have occasioned a week’s worth of coverage in that alternative world we lived in only a year ago.
Steve Bannon called the editor of the liberal American Prospect and talked like he is really the President of the United States. Twitter tells me the site is down, but I have a page up in my tabs, so if you can’t reach it, say so in the comments, and I’ll quote more.
“To me,” Bannon said, “the economic war with China is everything. And we have to be maniacally focused on that. If we continue to lose it, we’re five years away, I think, ten years at the most, of hitting an inflection point from which we’ll never be able to recover.”
Bannon’s plan of attack includes: a complaint under Section 301 of the 1974 Trade Act against Chinese coercion of technology transfers from American corporations doing business there, and follow-up complaints against steel and aluminum dumping. “We’re going to run the tables on these guys. We’ve come to the conclusion that they’re in an economic war and they’re crushing us.”
Trump Lawyer Forwards Email Echoing Secessionist Rhetoric
The email forwarded by John Dowd, who is leading the president’s legal team, painted the Confederate general Robert E. Lee in glowing terms and equated the South’s rebellion to that of the American Revolution against England. Its subject line — “The Information that Validates President Trump on Charlottesville” — was a reference to comments Mr. Trump made earlier this week in the aftermath of protests in the Virginia college town.
“You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington,” the email reads, “there literally is no difference between the two men.”
And, finally for me, although you may have found other insanities out there,
Phoenix mayor asks Pres. Trump to delay rally there next week “as our nation is still healing” after Charlottesville https://t.co/P6RfUSGexY pic.twitter.com/7XbMbjU05y
— ABC News (@ABC) August 17, 2017
Matt McIrvin
There are some more polls out now besides Gallup, and it sure looks like Charlottesville made Trump’s numbers go up, not down.
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/trump-job-approval
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/?ex_cid=rrpromo
germy
Baud
The Guardian via Reddit.
dmsilev
Let me try: One man fought and worked to establish and unify the United States, and one foreswore his oath to the United States and fought to break it up. Also, I don’t think Lee had a set of wooden false teeth.
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: How reliable are these immediate reaction polls?
cain
@Matt McIrvin:
Of course it would, his base is happy… no more mr. PC, it is all about liberal outrage and how to get more of it.
debbie
I just finished watching a repeat of a Frontline focusing on Bannon. He is one evil person.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Just because George Washington owned slaves doesn’t mean he and Lee are comparable. From the British perspective of the time, he was a traitor, yes. But he wasn’t directly fighting for a cause to preserve slavery and he had more redeeming qualities than General Lee ever did.
TenguPhule
once again.
THIS IS NOT NORMAL.
greengoblin
I see the Repubs are reluctant to hold hearings on Charlottesville. Is there a law against the Dems holding hearings, not just committee rules? Why can’t rules be broken or meetings held outside Congress but public?
Shalimar
@dmsilev: I can’t believe Dowd is a lawyer. 1Ls would have him for lunch with all the ways they could distinguish between Washington and Lee.
A Ghost to Most
@Baud:
Now, the destruction of that finger in the face of America would be a truly noble quest.
TenguPhule
@greengoblin:
Republicans literally control the lights and the mikes.
Our worthless media won’t even give Democrats the time of day on Sunday shows, let alone an event held outside of Congress.
TS
Hoping the City of Phoenix gets payment in advance for the rental on their Convention Center
cain
@TenguPhule:
He must have been drunk.. why would you call a liberal paper and monologue your plans?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
Trump: Nobody puts baby in the corner. *Nukes Phoenix*
Shalimar
The way Bannon talked about Trump was also very condescending. He must be very confident in his job to risk Trump being read those quotes.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TenguPhule: Use social media platforms. Use Youtube.
A Ghost to Most
@debbie:
Yeah,Bannon has displaced Michael Vick as Va Tech’s #1 villain alumni
TenguPhule
@cain:
He must be secure in the knowledge that nobody in the Whitehouse would believe this shit.
Hell, I’m having a hard time believing it.
cain
@TenguPhule:
Fuck em.. and really they are probably loving this whole theater, they are making money hand over fist. They don’t need democrats at Sunday shows because they aren’t really interested in enlightenment or understanding the issues.
Our idiotic Democratic congress should be finding ways to break the rules too. Since it seems that nobody else is paying attention to it, they seem to be the only one playing chess while the rest are off playing foosball. They need to shake things up and go outside the halls of Congress and do their own damn thing.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
It was tried before. Nobody remembers.
Hungry Joe
Anyone see the tough-talkin’, gun-totin’ Nazi on that VICE video about Charlottesville? Today he’s on YouTube blubbering that he’s terrified that he’s going to be arrested. From the look and sound of him you’d think he was a captured German soldier waiting for the Bear Jew to stride out of a tunnel with a baseball bat. (Where IS the Bear Jew these days, anyway? I keep hoping he’ll show up at one of these marches.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Matt McIrvin: those look like blips well within the MOE to me, no? Polls on the remarks themselves have been overwhelmingly negative, I think.
Jonathon Chait’s theory:
and odds are those staffer didn’t drink as much as Bannon
germy
Cheryl Rofer
I saw some reports on Twitter today that Trump is afraid to fire Bannon because he thinks Bannon will go back to Breitbart and savage him. He’s probably right.
A Ghost to Most
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Forget it, Jake. It’s fascists.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I always confuse the various political magazines. I can sympathize.
Jeffro
@Baud: You almost – almost – have to laugh at a Klan that would seek a permit, or be stopped by the denial of one, for their hateful, murderous rituals. I’m glad they were denied and part of me is also laughing at these snowflakes.
Quinerly
Thank you for front paging both of these pieces. Much appreciated. I had linked to the two big Bannon pieces earlier (Axios has an article up) and just linked to the Dowd piece. The Bannon pieces need more press. Maddow is leading with this Dowd craziness.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: Not very, and only a couple of them cover the period after his amazing meltdown on Monday, which for a lot of people was probably the really damaging moment for Trump. So we’ll see.
But the crisis itself clearly wasn’t a disaster for him–Bannon may essentially be right, that as long as the heat is up on racial tension Trump wins. Which means the thing for them to do is, in fact, to provoke or at least allow more Nazi rallies and attacks.
Walker
@Matt McIrvin:
All indication is that the negative polls were because of health care. Racism has always been fine with his base.
TenguPhule
@cain:
Short of literally holding an actual gun to the heads of the media heads, the Democrats can’t force the mediashits to report on anything. This is the problem of a free and stupid press.
Its not our Democratic Senators and Reps fault. We need a better media then the one we have and we’re not getting one any time soon.
cain
@Cheryl Rofer:
Who says they won’t savage him now? It’s not like Steve can control Trump then again, everything Trump does seems to a-okay with him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Baud: especially what with the virtual and the cyber and whatnot
@Cheryl Rofer: I lean more toward the “cooperating witness” theory than “fierce outside critic”, but both are possible
Adria McDowell
Nothing in this post gives me any hope in anything. These people (Dolt 45, Bannonazi, people who voted for and support Dolt) are scumbag humans.
Off to do some terrible statistical modeling. Night all.
lollipopguild
@Cheryl Rofer: If there is one person in the White House that trump might worry about it would be Bannon-with good reason.
Major Major Major Major
@Matt McIrvin: those upward inflection points are way before Saturday.
Roger Moore
@Matt McIrvin:
I don’t think that’s a reasonable conclusion. The latest date for any poll on 538 is August 15th, so reaction to Charlottesville isn’t included in those numbers.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: That’s from the Reuters article from this morning.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
-Jello Biafra
Cheryl Rofer
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Legit addition
PPCLI
@Cheryl Rofer: Bannon knows where a lot of the Trump campaign bodies are buried. And there are a lot of them to be dug up.
What was it LBJ said about Hoover and pissing out vs. pissing in?
Baud
@Matt McIrvin: That may be true. So hard to predict.
A Ghost to Most
@Adria McDowell: alt-humans.
Adam L Silverman
I go to the gym and then the store and this is what you all allow to happen? I see how it’s going to be…
schrodingers_cat
OK I read the Bannon interview, what exactly does he plan to do about China, can someone translate in plain English? Thanks.
SiubhanDuinne
“Maniacally focused?” Who talks like that? Is that normal?
(P.S., rhetorical questions, all.)
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Matt McIrvin:
Somewhere a fash needs to be bashed. Bring it on, losers.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Take them to court!
NotMax
Dolt 45 signs executive order changing name of the nation’s capital from Washington to Trumpistan. Includes collecting royalties for use of the name. Film at 11.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Some outlet posts a year end review of the most frequent Sunday show guests. The only non-Dems who’ve cracked the top five in the last few years are Bernie Sanders and BiBi Netanyahu. Something tells me Chuck Schumer doesn’t turn down a lot of invitations. Or Kristin Gellibrand. Or Claire McCaskill. Or Sherrod Brown. I think last Thursday or Friday I saw a blog post that the announced guests for last Sunday were all elected Republicans.
TenguPhule
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
We don’t have billions to piss away on loss-leaders.
The problem has always been that media doesn’t make money on reporting, it makes it on advertising.
So if you want stories that work for your side, you need to be prepared to spend a lot of money for little or no immediate financial return on it.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: We fight, we leave the predictions to Punditubbies. The weight of their contradictions is going to bury the Rs and T. If not today, then tomorrow.
lamh36
I’m sorry, but why should I care bout this?
Cheryl Rofer
@PPCLI: I alluded to that one this morning in a tweet. Better to have him in the tent pissing out than outside pissing in.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
Trade War. Possibly followed by a real one.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: you won’t get a good picture of folks’ opinion this week until next week, really.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@TenguPhule:
Where’s George Soros when you need him?
JPL
@cain: My personal opinion, is that he has nothing to lose. Either Kelly and the jews (sorry that was hard to type) are gone, or he is. He wouldn’t have done it without Trump’s okay, so they are seeing which way the wind blows.
I have not idea though.
TenguPhule
@lamh36:
Because it makes them easy recruiting for the more violent factions.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Why is this so ooga booga scary? And does China have no recourse? Is he talking about the WTO or courts in the United States.
Cheryl Rofer
@schrodingers_cat: He is obsessed with starting a trade war with China. I’m not sure he’s made public his detailed plans.
Adam L Silverman
The guy who wrote the email that Dowd forwarded is a scam artist named Jerome Almon among other things.
Here’s some satisfied customers Almon’s:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/jerome-almon/internet/jerome-almon-total-scam-artist-liar-conman-theift-florida-internet-1306570
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/jerome-almon/internet/jerome-almon-ceo-at-artwiaf-murdercap-records-actpreactdontreactcom-models-dont-tru-1200750
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/jerome-almon/internet/jerome-almon-ceo-of-artwiaf-murdercap-records-he-had-quite-the-story-of-how-he-was-going-1203273
From the NY Times article that Cheryl linked to:
And look, Devin Nunes makes an appearance:
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: For schadenfreude?
A Ghost to Most
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: DRINK!
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
Your Deepstate contacts are slow to deliver, that’s why. Jackals need to be fed.
JPL
@lamh36: Sad.. Very Sad
yeah right
Frankensteinbeck
@Jeffro:
This is partially baked into the concept. The intent of such a rally is to tell minorities ‘We surround you and hold all the power. You live or die on our whim.’ That doesn’t work nearly as well when the city tells your rallyers to fuck off, or the counterprotest is much larger than your rally.
lamh36
Once again…social media doing the work that law enforcement can’t seem to do lately…
On the assault of the young in the parking structure beat w/poles by White Nationalist in Charlottesville…
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/897958258555592704
Cheryl Rofer
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer:
i’m not sure he has actually thought out the details yet.
lamh36
at this point, I wouldn’t even welcome this muthaphucka’s call…
Baud
@lamh36: We care because it gives us joy.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: Just the fact that these guys use Almon as any kind of source is bonkers. And scary.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cheryl Rofer: One must ask: why were they there in the first place?
JPL
It’s apparent that Trump’s comments about the nice torch rally, were heartfelt. Bannon would not go behind his back, and who better to criticize Cohn.
schrodingers_cat
@Cheryl Rofer: I know that he is a wannabe Lenin, and he is making threats like a two bit hoodlum. I still don’t get how this diabolical plan is going to be put into action.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Because reasons.
Yarrow
I just can’t keep up with this stuff. It all happens so fast.
Roger Moore
@lamh36:
It’s a sign that being an actual Nazi is still frowned upon.
lamh36
@Cheryl Rofer: All these Mayors getting rid of these Confederate statues…Mitch Landrieu is like…”copycats”
Quinerly
@Cheryl Rofer:
?
SiubhanDuinne
@dmsilev:
Also, his image is not on any U.S. currency.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@A Ghost to Most:
Ogga booga scary violent leftists who are simultaneously snowflake p*ssies!
DRINK!
Frankensteinbeck
@TenguPhule:
Some, but the biggest encourager of violence is feeling like there’s no consequences. That’s why I actually support punching Nazis. These people need to understand that America hates them, so the waffling turn aside and the hardcore are afraid people will find out if they act up.
efgoldman
@Hungry Joe:
HEY ASSHOLE! ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES!!!
Fuck yourself with a rusty swastika.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: They may try to crash on your sofa?
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: Hometown pride?
Amaranthine RBG
Wee need more Sousaphone players:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs4P1kKK-5k
Even tuba players will do in a pinch.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: T and his people talk a lot, its like their bark is worse than their bite.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Cheryl Rofer:
Boy, the white nationalists sure overreached didn’t they? No racist participation trophies for them
Roger Moore
@lamh36:
Law enforcement has never been able to be everywhere at once. They’ve always had to rely on help from concerned citizens. It’s just that now those concerned citizens are drawing from a larger population.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Frankensteinbeck:
BASH THE FASCH! But only after they punch first.
Quinerly
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?:
Yep….I have yet to receive my protest rally checks. Poco trotted at two rallies. He wasn’t paid either. We were robbed
Baud
@schrodingers_cat: Definitely. They are quintessential bullies.
lamh36
@TenguPhule: And…so?
if i spent my natural Black live worry about racist white folks getting more radicalized, I’d be leading one sad and paranoid life.
If Black folks spent their time worrying about angry racist white folks, we’d never want to leave our houses…
Peale
@Cheryl Rofer: why were they ever in the hall. Which reminds me. I’ve been meaning to visit that hall
Cheryl Rofer
@schrodingers_cat: Trump will sign an executive order or issue a tweet. He seems to believe that those accomplish something.
More seriously, Trump was, for 3 minutes or so a week or a month ago, considering putting tariffs on steel imports from China. That would be a first shot in a trade war. War is uncertain, Bannon and Trump like chaos, and we could see where it goes from there. Or Trump could consider stopping imports of red hats and Ivanka’s merchandise.
[Sorry for the snark. This is all getting a little much for me, like Yarrow. And my kittehs expect me to take some time away from the screen every evening, so I think I’ll go read the paper.]
Adam L Silverman
This pretty much sums things up. Just as an FYI for those who don’t pay attention to this stuff, Lee’s descendants, especially the Ely (pronounced eely) sisters and their children have gone to great lengths to ensure that Lee is considered to be an officer, gentlemen, excellent theater commander, and a scholar. They’ve done this by refusing to release almost 90% of his correspondence, diaries, journals, and papers. Much to the chagrin of Civil War scholars. So this is right in line with their general approach to all things General Lee:
Baud
This sounds interesting. Kevin Drum
Baud
@Adam L Silverman:
Interesting. I didn’t know that.
schrodingers_cat
@Cheryl Rofer: If T and Bannon think that the Chinese are going to fold like the empty suit Paulie Blue Eyes, they have another thing coming. They will rave and rant and do pretty much nothing. They are not going to take on China.
TenguPhule
@Frankensteinbeck:
True. My fear is that simply getting them fired and ridiculed without also punching them hard leads to them blaming their failures in life on “teh blacks and the joos!” and going full hard core Nazi as opposed to ‘weak shitweasel’ Nazi.
Pain is an excellent teacher, but ostracism tends to only breed more resentment.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
He’s even closing in on a 60% disapproval level at Rasmussen.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: I’m going to eat. Do your own counterespionage if you think you’re such hot stuff!//
efgoldman
@lamh36:
Because it gives us all a shadenfreudeish giggle.
Because the assholes deserve it.
Because ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES and it’s about time the pastyt white nazibros figured that out.
Fuckem
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Makes you really wonder how Dowd got on that email list.
schrodingers_cat
@NotMax: But some push polls show otherwise, so let’s head to the panic room.
lamh36
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s the one thing that amazing me with all these. Saw as story about a plaque honoring Jefferson Davis that will be removed…IN SAN DIEGO!
The infiltration of the lost cause of the Confederacy in all parts of the USA and NOT just the South, should make folks re-evaluate just how much love for the Confederacy isn’t JUST a Southern thing
Quinerly
Posted a thread or two ago but I’ll leave it here just because. Bibi’s son feels more threatened by Black Lives Matter than by Nazis. Nazis are so very yesterday: http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-junior-says-leftists-more-dangerous-than-neo-nazis/
Gravenstone
@SiubhanDuinne: pretty sure he’s missing the ‘mono-‘ prefix.
sigaba
@Shalimar:
1) Trump can’t read.
2) Trump nor anyone near Trump is liable to ever pick up a copy of American Prospect even if they were told Bannon gave an unflattering interview in it.
3) Even if they did, he’ll just use the blanket excuse that The Liberal American Prospect is lying about what he said.
There’s a lot of really good reasons he made this call to this venue.
Baud
@lamh36: It’s an eye opener to me.
schrodingers_cat
@Quinerly: Seriously, why should one care about Bibi’s son of all people and what he has to say about American politics, I fail to see the relevance.
Quinerly
@Adam L Silverman:
I know exactly how he got on that email list.?
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36: Well, SD is in southern CA. Just saying.
Adam L Silverman
@Baud: This is an excellent article on it by a top Civil War historian:
http://www.salon.com/2011/07/31/lee_papers_lafantasie/
schrodingers_cat
What struck me the most about the Bannon interview is how much he sounded like BS and his most ardent supporters. Economic nationalism, identity politics blah blah blah. Does Putin offer classes to his various stooges? How come they all sound the same?
Baud
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks.
JPL
After reading the Bannon article, I feel like we are watching the White House version of the Hunger Games. We all might be on the losing side though.
NoraLenderbee
@lamh36: Doesn’t it tickle even a little?
lamh36
@Omnes Omnibus: ya know it!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Cheryl Rofer: From looking at Wikipedia about the 1974 Trade Act, Bannazi seems to be talking about section 301, which allows the President to use all his powers to combat trade practices that he deems unfair. Maybe he’ll put a tariff on iPhones, I’m sure that would be popular.
A Ghost to Most
@Yarrow:
How are you non-crazy people dealing with this continual deluge of increasing craziness?
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: Bannon is a white socialist, Bernie is a race-blind socialist, and we’re all lucky Bannon is incompetent and sidelined because an actual white socialist (not just a racist republican) could seriously imperil the Democratic Party for a generation.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: San Diego has traditionally been one of the more conservative parts of CA.
Peale
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t know. Trump’s China rant got lost in the racism this week. I had to laugh about the concern with IP. Yes, even if what Trump accuses China of is 100% true, there was nothing stopping business MOUs from protecting their IP. and they didn’t. And so they were robbed. Again and again and again until they just stopped caring about it. They were very much and very eagerly victimized.
Quinerly
@schrodingers_cat:
I guess each his own as they say. My Israeli friends here in St. Louis were very interested. Three sent me the original post. Plus, BLM is a big deal here because of Ferguson. Maybe you need to be Israeli living in St. Louis.?
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36
Has he called the parents of Heather Heyer, let alone any of the other 19 people (one of whom is the friend of a friend) who were injured in that murderous car plowing into the crowd? I don’t think he’s even called Heather’s mother or father. And if he does now, it will, once again, be too little too late.
It’s too easy to draw comparisons with Obama, but really, he would have been on the phone with parents within hours or minutes, to share his sympathy and condolences with them, and to speak to the nation in a healing way.
lamh36
@NoraLenderbee: lil bit
LOL
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
LOL, lamh!
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: It is probably better for Ms. Heyer’s family that he does not call.
lamh36
The impromptu vigil in Charlottesville
Quinerly
@SiubhanDuinne:
I thought about this today. Went to YouTube and pulled up Obama singing Amazing Grace. I cried. It actually helped a bit, though.
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Adam L Silverman:
Hmmm…
efgoldman
@SiubhanDuinne:
And they went and pissed off the wrong mama! She was righteously angry in the bit I saw on the news, and she’s not going to let up.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I am not!
Oh
Ocotillo
@Cheryl Rofer: WTF! Those statues are everywhere. What the heck is CUNY doing honoring traitors?
NotMax
@Omnes Omnibus
Of course he won’t call. But if he did, he’d call collect.
TenguPhule
@A Ghost to Most:
Why do you think there are any non-crazy people here?
lollipopguild
@TenguPhule: I know that I am sane because the voices in my head tell me I am.
JPL
@NotMax: That’s not true. He would have someone call ahead to make sure that he is treated in such a way, that a king is treated though.
Calouste
“You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington,” the email reads, “there literally is no difference between the two men.”
Washington won, Lee lost.
Omnes Omnibus
@TenguPhule: David Anderson seem pretty normal, not like that Mayhew dude.
Quinerly
@Ocotillo:
I think 30 some states have Confederate Memorials/Monuments. Need to Google. What amazes me is the states that were admitted to the union long after the actual war having them. States who had no ties to the war but for people who were transplant there 40 plus years later.
Omnes Omnibus
@JPL: I would not be surprised if, in the event that such a call was placed, the family would decline to accept it.
schrodingers_cat
@Quinerly: I see a lot of BLM flags in my area, especially the neighboring town which is mostly white but kinda hippie central. Even churches sport it. I was surprised when I found out from you guys how BLM is viewed in other parts of the country.
Mike in NC
Steve Bannon has made noises in the past about a shooting war with China in about 5-10 years. Absolute nutcase. That’s why Trump hired him.
Raven
Decent low country rainbow. I got some great sunset shots but I’ll have to wait to put them up.
SiubhanDuinne
@Quinerly:
I absolutely don’t want to remember him only, or even primarily, for his eulogies — but his addresses at Ted Kennedy’s funeral, and Beau Biden’s funeral, and the service in Tucson after Gabby Giffords was shot, and of course the service for the Mother Emanuel victims in Charleston — these were extraordinary moments. Not a single one of them used boilerplate language. Every one of them was crafted for the occasion and for the individual(s) being remembered.
I’ll bet real money that nobody gave one second’s thought to even inviting Trump to attend, let alone speak at, today’s memorial for Heather Heyer.
Otis Freeman
It didn’t get many comments so far here, but I find the letter from the Phoenix mayor astonishing. Thanks for posting.
schrodingers_cat
@Calouste: Excellent point! Mike drop.
Quinerly
@lollipopguild:
My head voices need a chat with your head voices. Mine need talking down sometimes.?
Major Major Major Major
@lollipopguild: the voices in my head tell me I’m crazy.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodingers_cat: trump prefers generals who didn’t win, apparently.
Quinerly
@SiubhanDuinne:
Well said.?❤?
schrodingers_cat
@Mike in NC: What about the logistics? Which country are they going to base the troops from to get to mainland China?
schrodingers_cat
@Major Major Major Major: What about the 3 in his entourage?
? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?
@Calouste:
“John Dowd was then admitted to hospital for third-degree burns.”
NotMax
@Quinerly
*
NotMax takes time out from making blrb-blrb sounds with finger rapidly moving across pursed lips to type a comment
*SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, except that in that travesty of a presser yesterday afternoon, some reporter asked him if he had spoken to Heather Heyer’s mother (parents). “Not yet,” he answered, suggesting that it was at the very least on his To-Do List.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: I am sure that Vietnam would welcome our troops.
Tilda Swintons Bald Cap
@Adam L Silverman: Adam did you see Robert Bateman’s rant about Bobby Lee the other day?
CapnMubbers
@Raven: Oh! it’s a double rainbow! Thanks.
jacy
@Major Major Major Major:
The voices in my head alternate between streams of invective and incoherent screams, depending on what fresh hell pops up in the news feed.
Quinerly
@schrodingers_cat:
I have a BLM yard sign out front here. My 3 friends from Israel (transplants here b/c of jobs…but mainly b/c they wanted children and were against the mandatory military service for their children) were appalled by any comparison of BLM to Nazis. I agree the link you complained about is probably not relevant to this thread. I just found it jaw dropping.
Chet
So there’s a distinction: Lee surrendered; Washington was victorious. But lionizing Lee in his supposed “contrite” phase doesn’t square with the statues of him on a horse. That’s a depiction for military commanders.
schrodingers_cat
@Quinerly: It is jaw dropping. Don’t mind me, sometimes I just am irritable.
Raven
@CapnMubbers: what makes it a double? Someone said that on my FB too!
Quinerly
@NotMax: But what would Corner Stone say? Rumor has it he is cheating on us with another blog.??
Omnes Omnibus
@Raven: It looks like there is a second less distinct one above the bright one.
JPL
@Mike in NC: Nothing makes any sense..
As if anyone will believe that shit.
https://www.axios.com/bannons-colleagues-disturbed-by-interview-with-left-wing-publication-2473835346.html
Quinerly
@schrodingers_cat:
All cool. I value your comments?
Raven
@Omnes Omnibus: aha, that was an iPhone shot. My canon wouldn’t get the pano but I think I got a good shot of the end in the ocean.
jl
Bannon’s nuts. Trump’s lawyer is nuts and out of control and lacks any judgment (so, excellent match for his client?). People like them get too much power, they will be extremely dangerous. Need to makes sure they are defeated.
Quinerly
@jacy:
One of the voices in my head is a mime. It’s complicated.?
Yarrow
@A Ghost to Most: I doubt anyone would accuse me of being non-crazy.
Jeffro
@Adam L Silverman:
Even this lazy scholar knows Lee wasn’t all that hot a ‘theater commander.’..I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt on officer and gentleman…
Gelfling 545
@Ocotillo: Exactly. It’s not like they’re Madame Tussaud’s.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus:
My thought exactly.
Quinerly
Will KC do the right thing with it’s 1934 Confederate Monument?: http://www.kctv5.com/story/36151363/kc-parks-rec-to-review-request-to-take-down-confederate-monument#.WZTlOl4QOol.facebook
CapnMubbers
@Raven: As Omnes noted at #172, I see a second faint bow above the brighter one.
sigaba
@JPL: Who could have predicted?
Bannon knows that he can tell two completely different stories to two different media venues. Everybody in the normalverse will get the message that he’s the power behind the throne and safe, while everyone in the Breitbartverse will just hear static and Fake News.
It’s a power play, he knows his position is precarious and he’s forcing the issue with Trump, but doing it in the American Prospect gives both him and Trump the out that it’s all Liberal Media Lies if anyone on the outside asks. It’s not important that Trump believes it, if Trump wants to keep Bannon in the tent, it’s the only excuse he’ll be able to accept publicly.
Tenar Arha
@lamh36: It gives me a happy feeling of schadenfreude inside that I’ll probably need to atone for at September’s end.
Mike in NC
@schrodingers_cat: I believe he was contemplating an air/sea war in the area of the South China Sea. Bannon was a junior naval officer for a few years, so he must imagine himself a modern day Lord Nelson or Chester Nimitz.
debbie
@Quinerly:
Interesting that even his dad (through a spokesperson) distanced himself from the son’s remarks. Over the past couple of decades, there’s been friction between the African American and Hassidic communities, so I’m not surprised by the remarks.
zhena gogolia
@Adam L Silverman:
A lot of fantastic gifs in the replies.
sigaba
@JPL: I mean think about it, can Trump fire anyone because of something that was reported in The American Prospect? Reported by the enemy? No matter how awful and compromising?
Quinerly
“A moral monster in the White House.” Ana Marie Cox
In a nutshell.
Adam L Silverman
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: Yep. If you control the source material and your great, great grandfather wrote the first historical biography, then you get the cult of Lee.
Lee was a mediocre theater commander/general of the army. He was fortunate, for almost four years, that the Union generals he faced were worse. Either they couldn’t grasp theater strategy or they ignored President Lincoln’s clear guidance to find the Army of Northern Virginia, fix it in place, and reduce it to the point where its commander must surrender, or both. Grant understood his guidance, he understood theater strategy, and as a result he was able to succeed where others had failed.
Lee was also a vicious slave owner and white supremacist. He was cruel underneath his gentleman planter’s exterior. He was self righteous. And, to be brutally honest, he should not have had his citizenship restored. Rather he and his family should have been expelled from the country and their descendants forbidden to return.
NorthLeft12
“You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington,” the email reads, “there literally is no difference between the two men.”
This should result in this guy’s grade school and high school diplomas being taken away…..not to mention his US citizenship. Un-effing-believable!
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: Make a counseling appointment with Dr. Krauthammer.
Adam L Silverman
@Tilda Swintons Bald Cap: Yes I did. I know Bob. He’s an excellent military historian and Soldier. And I try not to argue with him on military history issues.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: Lee was supposed to be a master of Jominian strategy. Which would have been great in the Napoleonic era but was about as useful as tits on a fish in the first days of industrial warfare.
Adam L Silverman
@Chet: Actually one of his nephews, Fitzhugh Lee, tried to do so. He eventually surrendered after Lee appealed to him to do so. He was eventually rehabilitated, attained the rank of general during the Spanish-American War, and served as a governor of Virginia.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: It’s almost as if he’s not the strategic thinker he claims to be. Or is he?
burnspbesq
Like hell I can’t. History is written by the winners. Washington won in support of a just cause; he’s a heroic freedom fighter. Lee lost in support of an unjust cause; he is traitorous scum.
Quinerly
Must see tv. Baltimore Mayor Catherine Pugh talking with LOD about Baltimore’s three monuments coming down. She told the crew to be done by 5 Am (finished 3 mins early). Taney’s was down in 45 minutes. There is awesome video on line. The interview is just great. She’s obviously tired..
Princess
So China’s economy is the worst threat the US faces but Bannon led the successful charge against the TPP which, whatever its other flaws or merits, was primarily intended to be a brake on China by promoting non-China trade across the region. This guy is supposed to be a genius?
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: And even during Napolean’s day it was beginning to show signs of wear and tear and I’m someone who happens to think that Jomini is under-appreciated today and all but ignored for a focus on Clausewitz and Sun Tzu.
Adam L Silverman
@Quinerly: LOD? These guys?
Or these guys?
Ruckus
@Major Major Major Major:
drumpf not liking winning generals sort of lines up with his entire life. A winning general is almost always going to be more admired that drumpf. And how he is admired is far more important to him than anything else in the world. It makes sense, in drumpf logic, that he’s like a losing general.
Omnes Omnibus
@Adam L Silverman: I will cop to having read only two of the three.
Yarrow
@Princess: Bannon just wants to blow things up.
Yarrow
In traitor news, this happened:
So many traitors in the GOP.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yarrow: Some people just want to watch the world burn.
burnspbesq
@?BillinGlendaleCA:
Foxconn is way ahead of Trump/Bannon. They are building a plant in Wisconsin.
Quinerly
“Elaine Chao was a mere ornament yesterday.” George F Will
I laughed really, really hard.
Adam L Silverman
@Omnes Omnibus: Not surprising. I know of only one person who teaches Jomini. Former colleague of mine at USAWC. She offered an elective on him because she couldn’t get one lesson on him, or even part of one, into the core curriculum.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Um, prohibition of bills of attainder and corruption of blood?
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: I know. But this was a special case.
Adam L Silverman
So it turns out Lt. JG Posobiec was the piss boy!
Ksmiami
@? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: yes- retain the moral argument but then hit back twice as hard and don’t stop till they’re crying for mama
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
Must still disagree.
The writers of the Constitution had seen some colonies pass such laws against Tories during the Revolutionary War and pointedly, specifically, comprehensively rejected such actions.
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: Fine, summary execution then. But that’s my final offer.//
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
That sounds like a positive career. Oh wait that was a test result.
Ensign that I reported to on board ship we called Ensign Parker. First because he looked like Tim Conway and second because he seemed to think playing a fictitious TV ensign in real life was what the job called for. He made LCDR. And the navy is still afloat. Does confirm my experience though that being bad at your job doesn’t always stop some officers from progressing through the ranks.
Mike in NC
@Adam L Silverman: Don’t know about the other services but in the Navy there is a grand tradition of giving the least desirable positions to an SLJO (Shitty Little Jobs Officer). One of mine was Voting Rights & Tax Assistance Officer, for which I had next to no training other than being given a few pamphlets.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ruckus: There are two ways to move up the officer ranks in the military. The most common is to always meet the promotion requirements and never stand out as more than above average for anything. That is the most common. The other is to standout so much that your weirdness has to be ignored. Like an bureaucratic organization, being odd in any way tends to count against you. In the army, getting married fairly young helped. A single captain with a battery/company/troop command would have to rely on his First Sergeant’s wife to be the senior wife in the battery, half of the top kicks were divorced. So then some 1LT’s 22 y/o wife who is new to the army herself is the “senior” spouse who organizes things when the guys are deployed. Patton and McMaster are senior officers who got there by standing out. Ike and Bradley are examples of the other route. Both can produce shitheads and great people.
Captain C
@Shalimar: Among his other clients have been Pete Rose and convicted (then overturned on a technicality, probably to be re-convicted on retrial) financial fraudster, crooked developer, and former AZ governor Fife Symington.
SgrAstar
@Frankensteinbeck: Disagree wholeheartedly. Violence in the streets needs to be handled by law enforcement. A few years in the slammer is a much more effective message than a punch in the nose. Yeah, we hate these people; thing is, they can’t help overreaching. We can id them quickly and throw them in jail. My 2 cents.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mike in NC:
I had those and then when someone else got promoted, I suddenly got supply, which mattered. I had a great supply sergeant, who took care of everything that he could and explained to me like I was an idiot what I needed to do to accomplish the things he couldn’t. Good NCOs are a god-send.
prostratedragon
@schrodingers_cat: Ha-ha-ha-ha!!
Chet Murthy
@TenguPhule:
I just wanna note that, even if you think Dr. Maddow’s style is , Dr. Maddow routinely features Dems, and heh, when she gets an R, she makes it clear by her “wowsers” that it’s a rare thing. [FTR: I think she’s trying to educate the “rest” of America, not those of us who got As in Government, so I’m 200% in favor of her approach.]
But yes, the fukkin’ Sunday shows esp. …. no Dems, and McMaverick every goddam weekend. And Miss Lindsay. And Yertle. And I need to go throw up.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Adam L Silverman: .
Or McClellan who decided he knew better than anyone else and the South would just surrendor if the North showed it was serious. I assume David Broder was of McClellan’s descendants.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@JPL:
Why; it’s very simple Bannon is a troll. All he knows to do is troll. He’s talking to the American Prospect to just get his LUZ in on the libertards. Bannon is a troll and that’s why he thinks last weekend and Trumps presser are a victory, it upset people.
Also consider this; what happened to Health Care, Taxes, Defense and the Budgets? That’s gone and now it’s Trade with China.
sherparick
@cain: As with many things, we can blame Ronald Reagan. During the 1950s through early seventies, TV was all free broadcasting on “public” airwaves. Because the networks and local TV stations were issued “licenses” to broadcast, those licenses were conditional on “public service” and “Fairness” e.g. the Fairness doctrine.
The licenses were also monopolies on broadcasting on the issued channels and their were only three networks and often even in major markets like New York, LA, or Chicago, only 4 stations, so they were making oodles of money on essentially monopoly pricing selling ads. So to keep those licenses and make the FCC happy, since they had oodles of money anyway, they put a lot money in their network news divisions, particularly CBS and NBC. Their were foreign correspondents and news bureaus in all the major world capitals and of course the Vietnam war was covered like a blanket (a great irony of is that despite social media and huge expansion technology, Vietnam was covered much more closely than Iraq or Afghanistan wars of the last 15 years – Fox for instance, after the initial invasion rarely had any coverage of combat or fighting on its airwaves. The War on Christmas was the big news.) Starting in the seventies, networks started facing more and more competition for Cable systems and pushing against FCC. Also, started turning news from public service to infotainment. 60 Minutes was really created to replace CBS Reports and the investments documentary production that Edward Murrow had created. Then came the eighties, Reagan, and the Democratic Neoliberals who believed the Fairness Doctrine was impediment to Free Speech and anti-trust enforcement was obsolete so we have lived with 30 years of massive media consolidation so that about 5 companies control it all (outside PBS and NPR); CBS/Viacom; NBC/Comcast; ABC/Disney, Sinclair, &Fox. And “news” has become “Infotainment.”
Ss ndmBfe lvoinfn. aen then then
sherparick
@Yarrow: Rule or Ruin has been the cry of White Supremacy since the 1830s.
By the way, if they want rename Jefferson Davis Highway for a Great Virginian, they could name the George Henry Thomas Highway. Thomas was born Southhampton County, Virginia, but chose to remain with the Union in 1861, and was disowned by his family and friends as result (I think this was one of the reasons he and his wife destroyed his papers after the war), during Reconstruction, Thomas submitted the following report to the War Department.
…[T]he greatest efforts made by the defeated insurgents since the close of the war have been to promulgate the idea that the cause of liberty, justice, humanity, equality, and all the calendar of the virtues of freedom, suffered violence and wrong when the effort for southern independence failed. This is, of course, intended as a species of political cant, whereby the crime of treason might be covered with a counterfeit varnish of patriotism, so that the precipitators of the rebellion might go down in history hand in hand with the defenders of the government, thus wiping out with their own hands their own stains; a species of self-forgiveness amazing in its effrontery, when it is considered that life and property—justly forfeited by the laws of the country, of war, and of nations, through the magnanimity of the government and people—was not exacted from them.
— George Henry Thomas, November 1868.[34]
sherparick
By the way, why the majority of Republicans don’t dump Trump is the fact that Republican voters still support him. See https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/17/donald-trump-support-base-pennsylvania-voters.
Until his disasters come home to roost with them, they will support him. A constant term shows up in these interviews ““Even kids, they’re running rampant, there’s no discipline. And there’s all these lazy freeloaders – I could go on” and “The Republicans were the rich ones and your Democrats were the hard-working man. Now it seems like the Democrats are the ones looking for the free handouts and the Republicans are the ones doing the work.”
The one constant meme right wing noise machine and Republican politicians is that they are taking your tax money and giving it to to “those people.” The only Christian virtues are the ones that prohibit illicit sexual conduct as defined as illicit by the Church.