Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

This fight is for everything.

🎶 Those boots were made for mockin’ 🎵

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

White supremacy is terrorism.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Everybody saw this coming.

The willow is too close to the house.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

Peak wingnut was a lie.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Live Feed: The President’s Address on US Strategy in Afghanistan

Reader Interactions

401Comments

  8. 8.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I’m watching. After sitting 9+ hours in bumper-to-bumper traffic today, I need some relaxation and comic relief!

  9. 9.

    Yarrow

    I’m not going to watch or listen to this shit. If he can read a teleprompter and not go off script he’ll be declared Presidential and the media will slobber over how Kelly has everything under control and pivot, pivot, pivot.

  10. 10.

    (((CassandraLeo)))

    @schrodingers_cat: Or John Oliver, Samantha Bee, Trevor Noah, Jim Jefferies… but yes, unless I’m listening to a comedy show, I won’t be subjecting myself to the president*’s voice. I suspect Adam will be able to provide us a roundup of everything important, anyway.

  13. 13.

    SiubhanDuinne

    I thought this was going to be from the WH. Taht’s what they were saying earlier today. Was the change of venue a last-minute thing, or did MSNBC get it wrong?

  15. 15.

    Yarrow

    @SiubhanDuinne: You know, there are actual comedies you could watch instead of the Idiot in Chief. I have a hard time imagining how seeing him is relaxing. I tense up every time. Turns my stomach.

  18. 18.

    Quinerly

    Sounds like he’s out of breath less than 2 minutes in. That breathing/snort thing is very pronounced.

  27. 27.

    MomSense

    Dude you don’t have to turn your entire body to read the teleprompters. You look like a malfunctioning Disney animatronics exhibit.

  28. 28.

    SiubhanDuinne

    He got a haircut. And he’s dyed his hair.

    And he’s doing that weird breathing thing.

  36. 36.

    kilo50

    His idea of gravity and seriousness is some kinda bad acting. He can’t carry off a basic speech with any kind of respect. No matter how hard he tries.

  38. 38.

    clay

    So, he’ll announce the troop expansion, and it won’t accomplish much… it’s inevitable that he will then blame it on the generals: “That was a plan they came up with, it wasn’t my idea.” We already saw it with the botched Yemen raid. The buck stops anywhere else.

  39. 39.

    JPL

    @SiubhanDuinne: Just sent you an email of pics Mike took in Brasstown, NC. It took him two hours to go and about four to come home, but he said it was well worth it.

  40. 40.

    Quinerly

    @MomSense:
    Whole thing is incredibly weird so far. It’s like he can’t catch his breath. He’s in bad shape. Some speech slurring.

  41. 41.

    Chris

    @kilo50:

    Not only karma. What we did to the Russians in Afghanistan was, quite consciously, doing to them what they’d done to us in Korea and Vietnam. That is, stay away from the fight, let your enemy be the one that actually spills blood trying to control thing, while you act only through proxies.

    You would think the lesson had been learned that this, not surge after surge of troops, is how you win wars in the third world. And you would be wrong.

  44. 44.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Are his speech writers even remotely capable of writing a sentence that is NOT a cliché?

  46. 46.

    Yarrow

    @schrodingers_cat: I can only take so much of that, even. Comedians like Colbert, yes. And I thought Alec Baldwin’s portrayal was very good. But I can only handle it for a few minutes. Then I have to turn it off.

  48. 48.

    Miss Bianca

    @Adam L Silverman: is that rally in Phoenix still happening? I thought the mayor had basically begged him not to come. Oh, right. This *is* Trump we’re talking about, after all.

  53. 53.

    MisterForkbeard

    @SiubhanDuinne: If it’s something I’ve learned over the past 8 months, it’s that “terrible and obviously insincere cliche” is translated to “utterly godlike speechifying” by Trump’s supporters.

  54. 54.

    JPL

    @SiubhanDuinne: Okay you guys are really going to make me turn it back on…
    At first it sounded like he was pretending to be serious, but then the breathing problems convinced to turn it off.

  58. 58.

    kilo50

    Oh he studied AFG. How could we not be assured and safe that this military scholar has the special one of a kind insight to protect us all. And its always some one else’s fault.

  60. 60.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: Stephen Miller is the principle speech writer. Though I expect that tonight’s got a good working over by LTG McMaster, Gen. Kelly, and Secretary Mattis.

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca: When I saw the Mayor of Phoenix interviewed at the end of last week he indicated that the Trump 2020 campaign and the White House had rebuffed his request.

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    If you had “I’m a problem solver, I solve problems” please claim your bingo prize from Anne Laurie on the way out. Also, DRINK!

  67. 67.

    MomSense

    I can’t even pay attention to the speech what with all the snorting, weird sniffing, and breathy delivery.

  70. 70.

    MisterForkbeard

    @SiubhanDuinne: Generals aren’t necessarily good speechwriters.

    Also, it had to be simple enough that Trump would think he was strong and patriotic while reading it.

  74. 74.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Baud: I expect it will be ugly. I expect if he actually pardons Arpaio it’ll get worse from there.

  76. 76.

    raven

    Hoorah and all that fucking bullshit. . .

    and it’s one, two, three what are we fightin for,
    don’t ask me I don’t give a damn, next stop Afghanistan. . .

  79. 79.

    Yarrow

    If anyone was curious about the “okay” hand signal and its use as a white power gang symbol, and Trump’s use of it, this Twitter thread is really interesting. You have to keep clicking “more replies” to see all the tweets, but it’s got loads of photos of people in his orbit flashing the gang symbol.

    It's time 2 separate evidence of practiced, patterned, deliberate behavior from "conspiracy theory."Media Training & Hand Signals-THREAD–— Lincoln's Bible (@LincolnsBible) August 13, 2017

    Also, when did Trump start doing this? It’s the main hand signal that Trump does–all the comedians who imitate him do it. But he used to do the “You’re fired” hand signal. When did he change? Why?

  80. 80.

    chopper

    Oy, this stupid “we shouldn’t announce our moves” thing is obviously his idea, as it’s idiotic and of course cause he brought it up first.

  86. 86.

    Adam L Silverman

    @SiubhanDuinne: It’s strange. Some of the themes are clearly Miller’s neo-nationalism. Some of what he’s talking about is clearly the details he got from McMaster and Mattis.

  87. 87.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    It’s strange. Some of the themes are clearly Miller’s neo-nationalism. Some of what he’s talking about is clearly the details he got from McMaster and Mattis.

    So the sum is the worst of its parts?

  90. 90.

    Old Dan and Little Anne

    I remember looking forward to watching Obama speak on tv. Sigh… The only time I’ve heard the orange shit stain since 11-7 is when he’s being made fun of on late night tv. Instead I’m watching Dirty Dancing. The last scene had a waiter try to give baby “The Fountainhead” to read. I learned about Ayn Rand through Balloon Juice. It all makes sense now.

  92. 92.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Oh, fuck CNN. Just got a breaking headline from them saying “Trump Calls for Unity.”

  95. 95.

    Another Scott

    @Chris: On a couple of NPR reports I heard today, it was almost comical that they said the added troops would be to “help train the Afghan army”. Just about anyone who has been paying attention must realize how comical that is. It was the recurring refrain in Iraq, and has been for 10 years or more in Afghanistan. :-/

    Meanwhile, the soldiers and police they have that have already been trained haven’t been paid for months.

    Maybe training isn’t the problem??

    There are too many warlords, too many competing factions, too many people who know that the only way to survive is to get what one can while one can (graft, corruption) because there’s no sign of things improving.

    We can’t fix the world by ourselves. As long as Afghanistan’s neighbors are more interested in fighting among themselves and in beating up on the USA and NATO, then it will continue to be a mess.

    :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  96. 96.

    kilo50

    No nation building, not again. Now he is threatening Pakistan. Oh yeah let’s threaten them too. The tribal areas are not somewhere we should think we want to go.

  98. 98.

    hilts

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Are his speech writers even remotely capable of writing a sentence that is NOT a cliché?

    Very true, but how many assholes will soon appear on CNN and the other networks and say that he sounded presidential tonight?

  99. 99.

    MomSense

    This is the lowest energy speech ever. Poor Jeb must be throwing heavy objects st his teevee.

  102. 102.

    Tim C.

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m not sure he will. The Trump style seems to be he’s a bit too chicken hearted to do much of anything beyond posturing. Bet he tries to have it both ways by saying how unfair and wrong bigot Joe’s treatment was by the legal system, but I don’t think Trump has the intestinal fortitude to pardon him.

  110. 110.

    Baud

    @Tim C.: That’s a safe bet. He cowardice is in constant conflict with his stupidity, so you never can be completely sure what he will end up doing.

  111. 111.

    TenguPhule

    @Chris:

    All days ending in Y after 1/19/17 suck, but some days ending in Y after 1/19/17 suck more equally than others.

    As we looked from the Nazis to the Trumpsters we could not tell where one ended and the other began.

  116. 116.

    TenguPhule

    @donnah:

    Um, what? Aren’t they better known as “soldiers”?

    Meatbags are inefficient. Droid Troopers are the future!

  121. 121.

    Felonius Monk

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Bet he can’t solve problems involving partial differential equations or ordinary differential equations for that matter.

    Oh, c’mon. Fucker has trouble adding 2+2. And judging by his comments about Charlottesville he’s not adept at integration.

  122. 122.

    dmsilev

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Oh, fuck CNN. Just got a breaking headline from them saying “Trump Calls for Unity.”

    To be fair, he’s well on his way to uniting the country in its hatred of him.

  123. 123.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    “Three and a half more years,” he’s telling himself as he sleepwalks through this speech, “Three and a half fucking more years of this shit! Fuck. I could be playing golf and looking for my next wife, and here I am up here reading this dumbass speech with all these hard fucking words. Shit! Why the fuck did my bitch wife and snot nosed kids make me do this? I didn’t want to do this, damn it, I never should have listened to them, I never should have let them make me do this, this is all their fucking fault! Bastards…”

  124. 124.

    mai naem mobile

    Tiny little handed man needs to continue to need to criticize black guy with yuuuge hands. What a pathetic creature.

  127. 127.

    Chris

    @Another Scott:

    On a couple of NPR reports I heard today, it was almost comical that they said the added troops would be to “help train the Afghan army”.

    You would think it would be impossible for any post-Vietnam administration to use that phrase with a straight face.

    I mean, this is like coming back from a diplomatic conference proclaiming “peace in our time.” Or it ought to be. Alas.

  129. 129.

    Zinsky

    This walking pile of dog vomit makes me sick to even look at his ridiculously coifed mango head. He started out with one lie after another: “The 9-11 attacks were planned and coordinated from Afghanistan”, WRONG – read the 9-11 Commission Report. While Osama bin Laden may have lived in Afghanistan, the tactical planning was done by KSM in Hamburg, Germany, Kuala Lumpur Malaysia and Las Vegas, Nevada. And on and on and on… This ignorant degenerate rapist knows nothing and deserves not a molecule of respect. LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

  131. 131.

    kilo50

    “Lifting restrictions in the field. Overwhelming force”. So it appears increased troops and more qualitative violence is the strategy for victory.

  134. 134.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Another Scott:

    Meanwhile, the soldiers and police they have that have already been trained haven’t been paid for months.

    Not unlike our own Secret Service. Or hundreds and hundreds of Trump employees and contractors and vendors. A pattern seems to emerge.

  136. 136.

    MJS

    I’m not watching. Has he made reference to his heel spur yet, so everyone knows he’s not actually going to Afghanistan himself?

  137. 137.

    chopper

    this is the most generic fuckin thing ever. this is like some kid trying to fake a history report in front of the class.

  141. 141.

    SiubhanDuinne

    The only thing that surprises me about this speech is that (so far — it’s not over yet, although he is in his peroration) he has not blamed Obama or Crooked Hillary by name.

  142. 142.

    mike in dc

    He’s reading this speech like he’s sounding it out phonetically. Good luck with that whole “getting Pakistan to help us” thing.

  145. 145.

    lgerard

    Interesting that he provides his own signing for the deaf

    He also looks like he is speaking from a laundry room or the back room of a dry cleaning establishment

  146. 146.

    TenguPhule

    @khead:

    Holy shit. Yeah, let’s strong arm Pakistan and India. At the same time.

    “Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts.” -Londo

    The heir to the throne has been found!

  147. 147.

    Adam L Silverman

    @donnah: @TenguPhule: Warfighter is actually a term of art that is used quite frequently so that one doesn’t have to keep saying “Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines”.

  152. 152.

    raven

    Peace with honor and we can’t get out cuz all these other people got killed doing this shit. Sound familiar?

  154. 154.

    kilo50

    He is taking on all responsibility for this project. He is draping his slouching shoulders with this albatross of Afghanistan. I hope he chokes on it.

  155. 155.

    Jinchi

    @kilo50:

    Now he is threatening Pakistan. Oh yeah let’s threaten them too.

    He’s desperate to go to war with somebody. Maybe Iran, China, North Korea, Venezuela,…. There are so many to chose from. He just hasn’t narrowed it down yet.

  160. 160.

    Adam L Silverman

    Now that he’s done speaking I’m not sure exactly what the new strategy is, other than it being rooted in principal realism.

  165. 165.

    kilo50

    @raven: Yup. I heard nothing new here. Just more war. Better violence done better. That’s all this was. How anticlimactic.

  168. 168.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Now that he’s done speaking I’m not sure exactly what the new strategy is, other than it being rooted in principal realism.

    Not surrealism? I’m not sure Trump is playing with a full set of paints here.

  172. 172.

    Felonius Monk

    @lgerard:

    He also looks like he is speaking form a laundry room or the back room of a dry cleaning establishment

    And now, live from the service employees rest room in the WH basement we bring you CinC Orange Droolius doing the Afghan two-step.

  176. 176.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: Unless your a Ranger, or a SEAL, or a Air Force Forward Observer Control, or a Green Beret, or a Scout.

  180. 180.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Yarrow:

    Fort Something, Virginia.

    Edit: Fort Myer, VA, near Arlington, I think. Still not sure why MSNBC spent much of the day making a point that it was going to be from the White House.

  182. 182.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    so that one doesn’t have to keep saying “Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines”.

    Every branch should be accorded the respect they’re due.

  187. 187.

    MomSense

    We learned nothing from that speech. He basically told us he wouldn’t tell us what he plans to do.

  188. 188.

    SFBayAreaGal

    I can’t stand looking at him, and I hate the sound of his voice.

    Thank you to those that have sacrificed yourself for the greater good.

    I am humbled and so appreciative

  191. 191.

    mai naem mobile

    I don’t know if the soldiers have been told how to act but they don’t seem to be acting like theyre particularly happy. The events with Obama with soldiers always seemed to have them with big smiles.

  200. 200.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Didn’t watch

    Daniel W. Drezner‏Verified account @ dandrezner 22m22 minutes ago
    In case you were wondering, “so I studied Afghanistan in great detail and from every conceivable angle” was when I laughed out loud.’

    glad I didn’t

  204. 204.

    jl

    Didn’t watch the speech. Can read it later, if it contained anything.
    I got some laughs reading things like:

    Claire Phipps
    @Claire_Phipps
    Fox News Tucker Carlson: Trump watching eclipse w/out glasses “perhaps most impressive thing any president has done”
    https://twitter.com/Claire_Phipps/status/899795678968258561

    Edit: I have to wonder whether Tucker Carlson (even Tucker Carlson) is snarking the pres.

  209. 209.

    mai naem mobile

    What are the chances that Dolt45 even knows Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan? He can name the leader? The Afghan ambassador?

  215. 215.

    Adam L Silverman

    @JPL: I have no idea. I didn’t hear any clear ends/objectives delineated. Nor did I hear specific ways and means. I heard the Pakistanis have to get their act together, India and others have to keep paying more, the war, to this point, has been a waste of blood and treasure, he might order a limited troop increase, and we’re moving to a conditions based assessment for ending our operations in Afghanistan.

  219. 219.

    Digital Amish

    I’m sorry but the difference between the new strategy and old strategy must be a little too nuanced for me to tell the difference. Wasn’t that basically just a pep talk before sending more people off to die?

  220. 220.

    Baud

    @raven:

    Both he and Defence Minister Parrikar stressed that the new agreement does not allow for US bases to be set up on Indian soil nor for troops to be stationed there.

  221. 221.

    Another Scott

    @Adam L Silverman: Diego Garcia is the UK’s isn’t it?

    Google’s and Microsoft’s heads (families) came from India, so maybe that’s why he wants India to pay more.

    Hey, that’s how Donnie “thinks” based on his past pronouncements. :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  223. 223.

    TenguPhule

    @JPL:

    At least we are looking at a profit, because the don normally makes his money declaring bankruptcy.

    That’s Trump’s profit, not America’s.

  225. 225.

    Quinerly

    @Adam L Silverman: Let’s pull the transcript about Pakistan and India…that section. Is the transcript up? I’m confused and couldn’t follow. I’m blaming a day of eclipsing.

  226. 226.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Felonius Monk:

    You know, the old Robert E. Lee plantation.

    For real? I should probably have known that, but I didn’t. But if so, that’s pretty meta of him, given the past week.

  227. 227.

    catclub

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Fort Something, Virginia.

    Another thing that needs fixing vis a vis Treasonous Generals – naming US military bases after them. FT Lee, FT Hood, for starters.

  230. 230.

    Cheryl Rofer

    The amazing part of Trump’s speeches to me is that he seems to be reading them for the first time. He firmly addresses the teleprompter panels, swaying from side to side to provide variety (do they put a “turn” instruction into the speech?), hardly looking at the audience. He stumbles over words and fails to read sentences to bring out their meaning. I find it hard to listen to his speeches because he provides no coherence to the thoughts. In other words, he doesn’t understand what he is reading.

  232. 232.

    mai naem mobile

    @jl: you have to be kidding me? Tuckers a moron. I swear somebody needs to tell Dolt 45 to absolutely not run up to Marine One holding a huge umbrella while it’s rotors are still turning. Also to absolutely not run down the AF1 steps real fast with his shoelaces untied.

  235. 235.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I heard the Pakistanis have to get their act together, India and others have to keep paying more, the war, to this point, has been a waste of blood and treasure, he might order a limited troop increase, and we’re moving to a conditions based assessment for ending our operations in Afghanistan.

    So extra shit sandwich with more ketchup?

  236. 236.

    mike in dc

    “We’re going to build a wall along the Afghan border, and Pakistan and India are going to pay for it.”

  238. 238.

    TenguPhule

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The amazing part of Trump’s speeches to me is that he seems to be reading them for the first time.

    What do you mean seems? He is reading them for the first time. What, you actually thought he PRACTICES before hand?

  240. 240.

    Adam L Silverman

    @mai naem mobile: Telling a room full of uniformed personnel that one of the two wars they’ve been fighting, and in which almost everyone in that room knows at least one person wounded and/or killed in action in said war, was a waste of blood and treasure is not something that goes over well. I once watched a colonel break down in tears asking the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff if all of her friends, colleagues, and Soldiers who were wounded or died did so for no good purpose. Even senior officers that recognize that we’ve been adrift in Afghanistan for well over a decade, for a variety of both simple and complex reasons, get emotional when the discussion moves in this direction.

  241. 241.

    Yarrow

    @Cheryl Rofer: Among many reasons (like I can’t stand to look at or listen to him), that’s why I don’t watch him give speeches. It’s useless. If you really want to know what the speech says, just read it. He adds nothing and in fact takes away from the meaning. Only interesting if he goes off script and then you can catch that on the news, on Twitter on late night comedy shows.

  242. 242.

    TenguPhule

    @Quinerly:

    I’m confused and couldn’t follow. I’m blaming a day of eclipsing.

    This is normal. The symptoms will pass once Trump is ejected into the Moon.

  243. 243.

    NorthLeft12

    Count me with the others that cannot stand to hear Deadbeat Donald speak. I normally just read transcripts or see snippets of him.
    He is the perfect storm of awful speaking; the quality of his voice, the sneering superiority that seeps out every time, the abysmal grammar, the ignorance, his annoying verbal and physical tics, and finally the unmeasurable level of mendacity in every sentence he spews. He is the worst and to top it all off, he thinks he is the greatest speaker since forever.

  244. 244.

    Cheryl Rofer

    As far as substance goes, he says there will be no nation-building, just killing terrorists. Strategy will be driven by conditions on the ground. The sunk cost fallacy will be followed. Victory will be well-defined: all terrorists will be killed, people will be able to live their lives, and it will all be happily ever after. Pakistan and India need to get behind the program. Pakistan must stop doing bad things. India has significant trade with the United States, so it must pay up its share. And we’re not going to tell you any more about what we’re doing.

  247. 247.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    It begins…

    Matthew Yglesias‏Verified account mattyglesias 10m10 minutes ago
    Hahahahahahahahahahaha
    It’s all happening

    Philip RuckerVerified account @ PhilipRucker
    Tonight is a new President Trump: Acknowledging a flip-flop and talking about gravity of office, history & substance.
    Maggie HabermanVerified account @ maggieNYT
    “We are not nation-building again. We are killing terrorists,” says POTUS, in one of his more forceful/best lines of address

    I’m a bit surprised at Rucker. “Forceful” should get Maggie a call on her cell.

  248. 248.

    Adam L Silverman

    @rikyrah: No, that was taken off the list of options when Bannon was fired and Erik Prince was excluded from the meetings on Friday.

  249. 249.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Telling a room full of uniformed personnel that one of the two wars they’ve been fighting, and in which almost everyone in that room knows at least one person wounded and/or killed in action in said war, was a waste of blood and treasure is not something that goes over well.

    Trump will certainly find a way to one up tonight’s performance. Maybe whizz on a coffin at Andrew’s Airforce base.

  251. 251.

    different-church-lady

    @debbie:

    Wrong. It’s a new strategy. He’s just not telling us what it is.

    Not telling us what it is was the old strategy too.

  252. 252.

    Waratah

    Does he want Pakistan and India to pay for this whatever it is?
    I thought at first he was going to declare war with them.
    With Mexico paying for the wall.

  253. 253.

    SiubhanDuinne

    “My original instinct was to pull out, and historically I like following my instincts,” Mr. Trump said. “But all my life, I’ve heard that decisions are much different when you sit behind the desk in the Oval Office — in other words, when you’re president of the United States. So I studied Afghanistan in great detail and from every conceivable angle.”

    Well, considering that infamous photo of Ivanka sitting at the Resolute, I suppose it’s a good thing he clarified.

  254. 254.

    TenguPhule

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Victory will be well-defined: all terrorists will be killed, people will be able to live their lives, and it will all be happily ever after.

    And you get a pony and you get a pony!

  255. 255.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Yarrow: Blackwater is now Academi, which is owned by a larger defense contractor. Prince has nothing to do with them these days. His current company is headquartered in Hong Kong and his funding is from the Peoples Republic of China.

  260. 260.

    Betty Cracker

    @Adam L Silverman: And yet, that’s the only true thing he said, though he said it bubble-wrapped in lies about how it will be different now that more needless death will be sold under the Trump brand.

  261. 261.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    Susan Glasser‏Verified account @ sbg1 17m17 minutes ago
    bottom line: a few thousand more troops, no new policy. there’s nothing dramatic about it except that trump acknowledged flipflop

    Daniel W. Drezner‏Verified account @ dandrezner 14m14 minutes ago
    My take on the speech: status quo. No fundamental change in policy. The best parts were the sections Trump barely cared about.

  262. 262.

    Felonius Monk

    @SiubhanDuinne: Here’s the skinny:

    The acres encompassing Fort Myer and Arlington National Cemetery were called Arlington Heights when they were owned in the 1800s by Mary Anna Randolph, granddaughter of George Washington Parke Custis. Custis was Martha Washington’s grandson. Mary Anna Randolph married Robert E. Lee when he was a young Army lieutenant. Lee helped rescue the estate from financial disaster in 1858, left the area in April 1861 to lead the Confederate Army, never to return.

    The land was confiscated by the government for military purposes when the Lees were unable to pay their property taxes in person. Part of the estate became Arlington National Cemetery and the remainder Fort Whipple, named in honor of Maj. Gen. Amiel Weeks Whipple, a division commander at Fort Cass which was established where the stables are today in August 1861. Gen. Whipple fought in the Civil War battles of Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville in Virginia. He died of his wounds from Chancellorsville in 1863.

  268. 268.

    Another Scott

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thank you.

    Reuters:

    AMMAN (Reuters) – U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said on Tuesday that he had directed the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to carry out President Donald Trump’s South Asia strategy after a rigorous interagency review which he would discuss with NATO allies.

    “I have directed the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to make preparations to carry out the president’s strategy,” Mattis said in a statement.

    “I will be in consultation with the Secretary General of NATO and our allies—several of which have also committed to increasing their troop numbers,” he added.

    Much strength. Impressive strategery.

    :-/

    “Pay attention and prepare to do something! We don’t know what it is yet; it depends on another review and we don’t know when that will be done, but be prepared!!1”

    Clowns. Dangerous, incompetent clowns…

    Grr!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  269. 269.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The amazing part of Trump’s speeches to me is that he seems to be reading them for the first time.

    He leans on words and phrases that are negligible, and slurs over punchy words and phrases that deserve emphasis.

    Public speaking instructors, debate coaches, and the leadership of Toastmasters International should use videos of his speeches as examples of all the things not to do when addressing an audience. Especially if your purpose is to persuade.

  272. 272.

    Cheryl Rofer

    Reporter commentary comes in two flavors: “Trump is now presidential” (yes, I have seen one person doing that) and “Wait for the next tweet,” which is much more plentiful on my Twitter feed, but that’s probably because of the people I follow.

    I don’t much like to listen to or watch Trump either. He was doing his finger mudras again, or white supremacy gestures, if you like. I tend to think it’s a tic rather than anything else, but he sure needs to learn not to do it. But I think I need to see how he presents himself and the ideas attributed to him. Sun Tzu:

    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

  273. 273.

    gene108

    @Adam L Silverman:

    As far as I know, no foreign country has a base in India.

    India’s been paying a lot to rebuild Afghanistan. India is one of the top donors for infrastructure spending.

    India has not sent in military personnel for various reasons.

    I think Trump may have offended both India and Pakistan.

  275. 275.

    hueyplong

    My first Trump speech. Several times while Trump was talking, I vowed never to watch another. Reactions:

    1. A lot of generalized tough talk of the type you hear from old relatives you normally shun. No doubt it will mostly be forgotten, but it’s like he’s owned a vow to perform tough guy “winning” that will look bad every time we don’t perform miracles that frankly seem kind of unlikely.

    2. The insanity of inviting India to get involved in Afghanistan makes no sense to me. I can’t imaging India thinking that’s cool, and I really can’t imagine Pakistan thinking that’s cool. Is Trump planning on opening a hotel in India or something?

    3. How can any sentient being listen to him for five minutes in a row without getting irritated?

    4. I’ve never been much of a fan of using dead servicemen as the top reason to do something that doesn’t have a better top reason.

    5. Happily, I didn’t hear any mention of that Prince guy.

  277. 277.

    MomSense

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    He can barely sound out the words and he doesn’t understand what he is saying. That’s why it is so difficult to listen to him. It doesn’t make any sense.

  281. 281.

    Miss Bianca

    Wow. So, is it just me, or does no one else finding themselves thinking about what happened in Yemen earlier this year vanishing straight down the old memory hole, as opposed to the endless drum-beating about Benghazi? And wondering how anyone, anywhere, could think that anything Donald Trump had to say on the subject of Afghanistan could be worth the electrons needed to blow it up on the teleprompter?

    Why is he lurching toward Afghanistan, anyway? I mean he’s been busy shaking his schlong at North Korea for days and days now, why the sudden pivot towards Afghanistan?

  282. 282.

    Adam L Silverman

    @raven: I think so. I’ve never really drilled down to who is at McNair in DC (other than the NDU schools) and who is at Myer.

  283. 283.

    efgoldman

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Fort Myer, VA, near Arlington, I think

    In Arlington VA, actually, right off US-50.
    For whatever, it’s also the headquarters and barracks for the US Army Band.

  284. 284.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Waratah: I thought he was working towards something like that too. And who knows, because he provided almost no details, he may have authorized GEN Nichols to strike at terrorist targets across the Afghan border in Pakistan.

  285. 285.

    WaterGirl

    @MomSense: Not watching, just reading you guys, but this is reminding me of the big event he held to announce something important and it turned out to mostly be a promotion for one of Trump’s properties.

    This sounds like “Hey, look over here, I’m gonna say something really important, or at least pretend that I’m going to, so stop talking about what a Nazi fuck-up I am” event.

  287. 287.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @hueyplong: As I understood the reasoning, the United States does a lot of trade with India, so India should be contributing more to fighting in Afghanistan.

    This, like so much Trump stuff, is blindingly stupid. Trade has nothing to do with military alliances. India is currently confronting China. They don’t need another fight.

  288. 288.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Betty Cracker: Yep. It is a hard truth to stomach for anyone who has been even when we know it is the truth and one that should be spoken often in regard to how things have gone poorly.

  290. 290.

    Cheryl Rofer

    OTOH, I predicted he wouldn’t go off script, and he didn’t. A couple of little asides. You can tell they’re asides when he looks at the audience rather than the teleprompter.

  291. 291.

    Immanentize

    It was probably mentioned by someone else, but his sanctimonious five minute intro about how we are all in this together — the military is a band of Brothers and Sisters! Fighting for love and diversity and loviness — made me scream considering his trans ban tweets.
    WASF

  292. 292.

    Quinerly

    @schrodingers_cat: I did a 100 year old armoire for the beach place with chalk paint in the spring. It was pretty nasty to start with…5 layers of oil, lead based paint. The premixed chalk paint is pretty expensive. I ended up mixing my own. A lot of info on line. If you want to email me, I can send you some info. I used an on line formula but made a lot of it up as I went along. Electric palm sander was my friend.

  300. 300.

    NorthLeft12

    @Adam L Silverman: We went through something like this ourselves [in Canada] too when we withdrew [mostly].
    There were many comments from families of slain soldiers that to leave without winning was a betrayal of their lost family member. Those discussions angered me as the awful and most honest response was that Canada did not want to create any more grieving families just to “justify” the sacrifice/loss of the previous soldiers. I know that answer is harsh, but the plain fact is that some/most of these wars are not critical to the national interest or survival and while there may have been a reasonable political/altruistic reason to get involved, there are limits and we reached our limit years ago.
    I am not a pro-military person, but I value their lives and their service. That is why I feel they should only be deployed in very important circumstances. We rightly stayed out of Iraq, with much damage to our relationship with the US, but jumped into Afghanistan to prove our worth as an ally and our belief in multilateral military action. I am very leery of pretty much any military involvement.

  302. 302.

    Chris

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    As far as substance goes, he says there will be no nation-building, just killing terrorists.

    Is this actually terribly different from what we’ve been doing?

  303. 303.

    gene108

    @schrodingers_cat:

    India wants to avoid another Kargil type conflict, which is why India is contributing to infrastructure spending.

    But I don’t see India engaging militarily. India tried this in Sri Lanka and it didn’t accomplish much. Also got Rajiv Gandhi asassinated.

  305. 305.

    Adam L Silverman

    @hueyplong: Actually there are several Trump branded properties under development in India.

    The reason that India is not directly involved in Afghanistan is to keep Pakistan from becoming upset over it. This is the same reason we don’t have the Israelis helping out in Iraq or Syria – so as not to upset our Arab coalition allies. As a result of tonight’s remarks Islamabad is in full pucker and the US Ambassador to Pakistan is tap dancing.

  307. 307.

    Immanentize

    Also too,. Trump’s invocation of honor and ‘something’ was just straight out of the Nixon “Peace with honor” playbook.
    WASF

  308. 308.

    d58826

    @WaterGirl:

    it turned out to mostly be a promotion for one of Trump’s properties.

    Well he did brag about all of the great military victories since Jan 20th. He was more than happy to take credit for Mosul even thought it was the strategy laid out by that guy with the funny name.

    He also promised not to reveal battle plans before winning the battle. I guess if things go wrong he can always say that it wasn’t part of the unannounced plan.

    In all seriousness Afgan. is made up a number of tribes and ethnic groups that do not like each other. They have not liked each other for hundreds of years. The Pashtuns in the south are not going to break bread with the Tajiks from the north. The Pashtuns in northern Pakistan are not going to turn on their tribal relatives in southern Afgan.

    There is no victory there. There are no performance baaed milestones that we can achieve. The plan laid out by Der Fuhrer if implemented honestly means that Americans will be fight in Afgan well into the next century.

  311. 311.

    WaterGirl

    @Another Scott: That would be the one. But I had forgotten how he had plugged all his various loser product lines. He would have been selling snake oil out of a wagon if he had been born in an earlier time.

  313. 313.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @WaterGirl:
    @Another Scott:

    Oh, I was thinking of the one where he promised a big press conference, held it at the then brand-new Trump International Hotel (Old Post Office in Washington, DC); finally, breezily, after singing great praises for his own property, acknowledged that President Obama actually was born in Hawaii — and then walked off to give a tour of the hotel and refused to take any press questions.

  314. 314.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Miss Bianca:
    1) There’s no Yeman raid drumbeat because there are GOP majorities in both chambers of Congress.
    2) Things are going poorly in Afghanistan. And unlike in North Korea, Americans are dying there. So…

  316. 316.

    p.a.

    I was thankfully otherwise engaged, but from the comments can we assume this was really a poitical, not military speech. Get onstage, avoid defecating, don’t defend a Bull Connor statue, no jokes about recruiting accountants from a shtetl, and hope that’s enough for some of the wavering knee-walker supporters that his polls stabilize above 30%?

  317. 317.

    Immanentize

    @d58826: not kidding — from people I know who have spent a lot of time — years — in Afghanistan:. One cannot underestimate how stoned the males are in the countryside all the time in that country.

  320. 320.

    Timurid

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    If there’s no nation, you’ll never run out of terrorists.*

    *To be somewhat fair, nation building in Afghanistan is very, very hard (if not impossible).

  321. 321.

    WaterGirl

    @Immanentize: I felt nauseous when raven mentioned Trump had talked about Peace with Honor. Ugh.

    It’s really good to see you here. So very sorry for your loss.

  324. 324.

    Miss Bianca

    @Adam L Silverman: So, the press won’t ask any further questions about what happened in Yemen and why Trump as CiC wasn’t ultimately responsible for a botched raid, because the GOP aren’t going to frog-march Secretary of Exxon Tillerson in to testify in front of Congress. Goooooot it…

  325. 325.

    Adam L Silverman

    @NorthLeft12: No arguments at all from me. The stupidest argument for continuing a war of any type is “we have to because of everyone who has already been wounded or died”.

  327. 327.

    Jeffro

    @Adam L Silverman:

    We’ve got a societal and national short, medium, and long term memory problem.

    6 squares is too many to contemplate at once, Adam…can we break it down to national short and national long term…um…what was the question again?

  329. 329.

    Chris

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The idea that trade means the Indians owe us is fucking ridiculous. Trade isn’t charity that we give other countries because we feel bad for them. Trade happens because they have shit we want and we have shit they want so we buy their shit and they buy our shit.

    This is like saying that, because I buy groceries from the guys at the organic market, they have a moral duty to help me with my roach problem.

  330. 330.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Chris: We do two things in Afghanistan right now:
    1) Counter-terrorism operations.
    2) Working with our coalition partners in NATO Training Mission Afghanistan (NTMA) to build the capabilities of the Afghanistan National Security Forces.

  332. 332.

    gene108

    India’s doing more than I realized:

    NEW DELHI: While agreeing that Pakistan has raised concerns about India’s growing role in Afghanistan, the top commander overseeing American operations in the war-struck country has welcomed New Delhi’s participation in strengthening local forces.

    Snip

    “I can understand India has been calibrated because of this (Pakistan) concern. I can only answer this from a military perspective and there we welcome the role India has been playing, particularly in training thousands of Afghan soldiers,” said Nicholson, when asked about India’s role in the country.

    The US commander made a case for increased Indian assistance, particularly for the Afghan air force that consists of Russian origin aircraft.

    The General said that while the four Mi25 helicopters provided by India are of great help, the Afghan air force needs much more, pointing out that while there are several donors lined up to help Afghanistan, most of them have sanctions on Russia.

    The officer said a repair and overhaul facility for helicopters would be welcome in Afghanistan and given that many nations do not want their funds to be used for purchasing spares from Russia, India could be a good option to take on the work.

    http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/us-welcomes-indias-role-in-boosting-afghanistan-military-pakistan-worried/articleshow/53642767.cms

  340. 340.

    chopper

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    “no more nation building. except for the fact that we’ll continue helping improve the Afghan government. but that’s totes different”

  342. 342.

    Miss Bianca

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah, I figured as much, but it just makes me sick. One of the reasons I’d love to see the Democrats take over Congress again, frankly.

    @Immanentize: Good to have you back among us, Imm. You have been missed.

  343. 343.

    Quinerly

    Did Trump use the words “radical Islamic terrorism/terrorists”

    I swear I don’t think I heard them but I was struggling to follow it. Left the room a couple of times.

  346. 346.

    Immanentize

    Dear All,. Thank you. I’ve been random lurking and I see stuff people write and I weep How is it that the kindness of virtual acquaintances moves me so? Dunno. But it does. I hope/want to be back with y’all soon.

  348. 348.

    kilo50

    @chopper: I heard nothing that led me to believe there was anything other than this is the “new and improved Afghanistan war” line. It wasn’t even particularly well done bullshit either.

  350. 350.

    sm*t cl*de

    @Another Scott:

    the Secretary General of NATO and our allies—several of which have also committed to increasing their troop numbers

    NATO countries are brimming over with confidence and gratitude for Trump right now.

  351. 351.

    Immanentize

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m a mess! That made me laugh and weep…..

    ETA Through this five month shitshow, I could steel myself for all the awful news and results. Totally stoic But when someone showed true caring concern or heartfelt sorrow, I collapsed. Heaved great big blubbering heaves Go figure.

  353. 353.

    efgoldman

    @Immanentize: How is the Immp doing? How are you?

    Yes, on occasions when I have posted especially bad (usually health) or especially good (usually granddaughter) news in this space, I have been overwhelmed by the jackals’ responses. Used to be, at least – am not any more.

  355. 355.

    WaterGirl

    @sm*t cl*de:

    NATO countries are brimming over with confidence and gratitude for Trump right now.

    Who knew they would get tired of so much winning?

  359. 359.

    Immanentize

    @efgoldman:
    Immp is amazing. I know you predict acting out. That is likely later. But he said the sweetest thing to me before J died — “Well, I was thinking about this last night and I guess I don’t get to have my ‘i hate my parents phase’ because I learned how important you are.”.
    I of course told him he was free to hate on me anyway.

  361. 361.

    Captain C

    @MomSense: Mooch’s actual purpose was to deliver a bleepload of the good Bolivian Marching Powder, then make his escape by being fired.

  363. 363.

    Miss Bianca

    @WaterGirl: It almost scares me sometimes, how fast *someone* in the BJ community will twig a cultural reference, from the highest of the high-brow to the lowest of the low. Well-done, us!

  365. 365.

    efgoldman

    @Immanentize:

    I was thinking about this last night and I guess I don’t get to have my ‘i hate my parents phase’ because I learned how important you are.”.

    Even during their worst adolescent moments (and they all have them) kids know what’s important.

  372. 372.

    japa21

    How long will it be before Trump talks about how well received the speech was, and how the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs called him to tell him it was the greatest speech he’s ever heard given to the troops?

  374. 374.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    That was one uninspired speech. So in the end Trump is being made to act like an adult. He’s dead meat now because he clearly sucks at it and his base is only in it for the the thrill.

  377. 377.

    Ruckus

    @Immanentize:
    Condolences and better days to you and Immp.

    So I’ve read the comments and didn’t listen to the “speech” and nothing was different or better than expected. drumpf is a horrible baboon and has managed to destroy any good will that this country built up in the last 200 yrs. Most of Europe should be gone, what with his nazi bullshit. The middle east was probably lost in the first month. As of this evening he’s managed to piss off India and Pakistan. He’s made good headway on starting a war with NK, which of course would piss off anyone left in Asia. He managed to piss off over half the country by “winning” the presidency and has continued that delicate work with pretty much every word he’s uttered. I’d bet the active duty military isn’t all that thrilled with him either. He’s managed to pretty much ruin his own brand to the point that even his Russian owners can’t be all that delighted because where else are they going to launder money?
    Anyone left he can piss off?
    Wanna bet on the nazi simps that are his base being next?

  378. 378.

    Yarrow

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: He’s going to head out to AZ tomorrow and get some of that rabid crowd energy he so desperately needs. He’ll tell them all “his” generals told him it was the best speech they ever heard, better than any of Obama’s speeches.

  379. 379.

    Chris

    @Jay:

    Yes, I tend towards the view that if the U.S. were ever put through a decade of communist occupation followed by half a decade of Mafia wars followed by half a decade of (a rose by any other name) Ku Klux Klan rule followed by another decade or two of foreign occupation, Afghanistan is exactly what we would look like. (With shittier rugs).

  382. 382.

    efgoldman

    @Yarrow:

    He’s going to head out to AZ tomorrow and get some of that rabid crowd energy

    Aren’t both open and concealed carry legal out there?
    I expect some kind of riot, and the non-compensated Secret Service will have to hustle him the fuck out of there.

  385. 385.

    Yarrow

    @efgoldman: I think they are. I would guess the Secret Service will be screening the crowd pretty carefully. Who knows what will happen in the line to get into the place. I’d expect protesters somewhere, but wonder if they’ll be allowed anywhere near the venue.

    I’ve seen some discussion of non-fans getting tickets and then getting up and walking out when he shows up.

  386. 386.

    efgoldman

    @Yarrow:

    I would guess the Secret Service will be screening the crowd pretty carefully.

    While a “presidential” visit would never be as wide open, I expect the local police to remember Gaby Giffords all too well.

  387. 387.

    Ithink

    @TenguPhule:

    It took over Rachel Maddie’s block of programming tonight and it was as painful & incoherent as ever, even as he completed sentences and used proper noun-verb subject agreement thanks to timely teleprompter assistance.

    NO real original strategy.

    NO realistic committed strategy for victory and terrorist defeat or what not compared to either of the previous two administrations.

    NO acknowledgement or proper syncing of the 10001 other positions on foreign policy and war matters he took on the campaign trail or on his 1984-hellscape-brought-to-life of a Twitter account from years past.

    All I can say is I despair of our country and what comes next in the absence of a proper resolution to impending nuclear war to North Korea and this godforsaken orange tanned fool controlling our own atomic warfare.

  388. 388.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Yarrow: Might be interesting to see what happens there if the Generals took Trump to the woodshed. Trump doesn’t have Bannon doing whispering hate into Trump constantly. Trump doesn’t sound like a man with any real ideas of his own.

  390. 390.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Chris: A good question. It appears that, aside from irritating Pakistan and India, there is not much new about this plan. More secrecy and probably more deaths, but no clear endpoint or strategy.

  391. 391.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Chris: As far as I can understand Trump’s views, trade comes first. Everything else springs from that. He misunderstands the balance of trade, which complicates things, but that has never slowed him down. I agree that it’s a dumb way to view things, but it seems to be his.

  392. 392.

    tobie

    I tuned in late to the whole thing because I couldn’t stomach having to hear or see Trump. The response to the speech on Brian William’s show seems to be fairly muted. But I heard yet another journalist say regarding domestic politics that the Democrats have no message. This is become in annoying meme. A guest on Morning Joe said the same thing. The party did just come out with “A better deal.” What is the Republican Party message? Why is it that no one ever asks this?

  396. 396.

    NorthLeft12

    @sm*t cl*de: I call bullshit on that. There are numerous NATO allies [Canada included] who agreed to spend more on their military, but I doubt more than two agreed to increase the size of their armies.

  398. 398.

    JAFD

    To zag a bit here…

    Has anyone ever read _Caravans_, the novel James Michener wrote about Afghanistan, in 1963. What did you think? Worth reading ? What’s different now than when ’twas written ?

Comments are closed.