Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

People are complicated. Love is not.

I was promised a recession.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

No one could have predicted…

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

An almost top 10,000 blog!

This fight is for everything.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

If you are still in the GOP, you are an extremist.

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: When It Comes to Blotting Out the Sun…

Open Thread: When It Comes to Blotting Out the Sun…

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(David Fitzsimmons via the The Arizona Daily Star)
.

Speculation from last night…


.

And not just Americans…

Let’s just hope Lord Smallgloves isn’t peeved enough to revert to Erik Prince’s ‘unlimited global grifting’ proposal…


Reader Interactions

175Comments

  2. 2.

    Timurid

    If you want to know what “peace” in Afghanistan will look like, look at Guatemala and El Salvador today.

  5. 5.

    rikyrah

    Dan Pfeiffer‏Verified account
    @danpfeiffer
    Follow
    More
    Dan Pfeiffer Retweeted HowardKurtz
    We should all prepare now for the punditocracy to gush when Trump reads from a teleprompter without saying anything pro-Nazi

  6. 6.

    clay

    Why this plan has even advanced to a hearing stage is beyond me. Countries do not want “Viceroys.” I’m happy to be corrected if wrong.

    I’d be more than happy for the U.S. to have a viceroy right now. Maybe Canada can send someone down… what’s Alex Trebek up to?

  7. 7.

    rikyrah

    The Brilliance of Buy-in: The Private Market and States Won’t Let Obamacare Collapse

    Spandan Chakrabarti
    August 21, 2017

    When Donald Trump lost the popular vote by the biggest margin of anyone who’d ever won the presidency, his assent to the White House with a unified Republican Congress was seen as doomsday for their primary and first target: the Affordable Care Act. I was worried. Everyone I know was worried. The news of a unified right wing government in Washington was not – and still is not – good news for health care.

    But one person who had never had much patience for the dramatics said he thought Obamacare would survive. That man was, in fact, President Obama.

    …………………………..

    Each time Trump was faced with the failure of Obamacare repeal, he comes back to the old refrain: some version of “Obamacare is collapsing, we’ll let it collapse, and then come back and force Democrats to compromise on repeal!”

    That Obamacare-is-collapsing argument, backed nearly universally by national Republicans, is dependent on a singular factor: that many health insurers are now refusing to offer any plans at all in the ACA exchanges for many (mostly rural) counties. Setting aside the fact that this is primarily a phenomenon faced by states originally (and in many cases, still) resistant to Obamacare, the entire basis behind that argument has now, well, collapsed.

    There is now just one county – with 334 private exchange enrollees – left without an insurer.

    You read that right. Not 80 counties, not 50 counties, just one. And even that county might end up being covered by the time open enrollment starts in November.

    That’s right. Insurers are jumping in to cover previously uncovered counties as state officials spring into action to make it happen for their constituents. As a result, as of now, all but one of the 81 counties that were at risk of losing all ACA private insurance options now have them.

    The reason they are doing so is even more detrimental to Republican narrative of a collapsing Obamacare market: it’s profitable. The CEO of Centene, the company that signed up more than half of the “bare” counties, had this to say in an investor call: “For 2018, we intend to grow this profitable segment of our business.”

  8. 8.

    TenguPhule

    Politico says McMaster blocked Bannon plan for Erik Prince to pitch privatizing Afghan war at Camp David today; w/ Bannon out so was Prince

    There is never a bad idea that Trump can’t make his own.

  10. 10.

    TenguPhule

    @rikyrah:

    We should all prepare now for the punditocracy to gush when Trump reads from a teleprompter without saying anything pro-Nazi

    Assumes Trump will not say anything Pro-Nazi.

    Not a bet I’d take these days.

  11. 11.

    West of the Rockies (been a while)

    Out of curiosity, who would be leaking info that Trump is in a bad mood? A clerical/waitstaff person? Ivanka? Someone close enough to observe but not loyal, since the news does not reveal him in a good light. I don’t get it.

  12. 12.

    TenguPhule

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I am tired of reading gushy stories about M^2, M and Kelly, because compared to the rest of the T admin, they are competent.

    Welcome to American media.

    Soon you too will join Village’s calls to destroy them all.

  13. 13.

    Adam L Silverman

    @schrodingers_cat: They are competent, full stop. Right now, no matter how upset they make you, they and a few others in senior appointments and a whole lot of senior executives/senior foreign service executives/senior analytical service officers, general officers/flag officers, and civil servants are who are holding the line on the inside the government side of things.

    It is not optimum, nor optimal. It is bordering on the unconstitutional. But it is what we have right now. You want a nuclear strike on the DPRK because the President was unhappy with how his steak was cooked? You want a debt ceiling breach or a government shutdown? You want Eric Prince running Afghanistan and wondering why he shouldn’t be allowed to use his Peoples Republic of China financed private army and air force to also take control of Pakistan and India? Because that’s what’s going to happen if Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster, as well as several others not in uniform go.

  15. 15.

    jl

    Maybe Prince has a point. Have they tried using converted crop dusters in Afghanistan yet?
    When I was a kid on the farm, there was this one crop duster who regularly worked some nearby fields. Had an orange biplane, and he wore what looked like a black leather helmet, goggles, and a white scarf. At least when he was travelling to and from the job. When I heard a crop duster coming, I’d run to where I could take a look to see whether it was him.

    That looked so totally cool. Stuff like that might work in Afghanistan. I guess it will do wonders for Libya any day now.

  17. 17.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You want a nuclear strike on the DPRK because the President was unhappy with how his steak was cooked? You want a debt ceiling breach or a government shutdown? Because that’s what’s going to happen in Mattis, Kelly, and McMaster, as well as several others not in uniform go.

    I believe its been mentioned before, but a military coup will make things worse.

  18. 18.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    yeah, that Lloyd Blankfein

    Lloyd BlankfeinVerified account @ lloydblankfein
    Wish the moon wasn’t the only thing casting a shadow across the country. We got through one, we’ll get through the other. #SolarEclipse2017

    @West of the Rockies (been a while): Someone close enough to observe but not loyal, since the news does not reveal him in a good light. I don’t get it.

    Mother Pence.

  21. 21.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m not convinced this isn’t going to be a close call.

    You want a debt ceiling breach or a government shutdown?

    Not at all clear that the generals can deal with a Republican Party that wants a shutdown.

  22. 22.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman:

    ” unhappy with how his steak was cooked ”

    Need to send some Foreman grills to everywhere Trump goes. Gifts from the admiring peoples of the US.
    And, what is his favorite steak ketchup? I’ll chip in for a few bottles.

  23. 23.

    clay

    @West of the Rockies (been a while):

    Someone close enough to observe but not loyal, since the news does not reveal him in a good light.

    It is entirely possible that, in backwards Trumpland logic, they think that Trump being angry and pissy makes him seem tougher, somehow. So maybe they think the leaks help him?

  24. 24.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: There isn’t going to be a military coup. There is a difference between having a Senate confirmed retired four star general as Secretary of Defense, another in a non-Constitutional office as White House Chief of Staff, and a serving 3 star who was assigned to serve as Assistant to the President-National Security Advisor. That isn’t a coup.

  25. 25.

    burnspbesq

    There is only one possible stable equilibrium in Afghanistan, and it’s Taliban rule.

  26. 26.

    rikyrah

    Early America had school choice. The Founding Fathers rejected it.
    They believed public schools were the foundation of a virtuous republic.
    By Johann N. Neem
    August 20 at 10:29 AM

    Education Secretary Betsy DeVos has been a loyal proponent of school choice. In her home state of Michigan, DeVos advocated both public school choice and vouchers to empower parents to send their children to private and religious schools. As secretary, she argues that “parents no longer believe that a one-size-fits-all model of learning meets the needs of every child.” They “know other options exist, whether magnet, virtual, charter, home, faith-based or any other combination.”

    Now President Trump is proposing devoting unprecedented amounts of federal money to expand school choice nationally. Both Trump and DeVos argue that families, not the public, should choose their schools. As DeVos recently proclaimed, “School choice is about recognizing parents’ inherent right to choose what is best for their children. That’s the manifestation of expanding human liberty in America.”

    But this conception of public education ignores our collective interests as a society. America’s public schools developed because after the Revolution, Americans realized that leaving education to parental whims and pocketbooks created vast inequalities and could not ensure an educated citizenry. A return to this type of system threatens to exacerbate educational inequality, which already plagues modern America and weakens our democracy. The Founding Fathers saw freedom as the cornerstone of the nation and public schools as essential vehicles to secure it. Guided by their vision, we should work to fix America’s public schools, not abandon them.

    …………………………………………………

    The Revolution transformed how some Americans thought about education. These Americans agreed with Thomas Jefferson that the future of the republic depended on an educated citizenry. They also believed that the opportunities offered by schooling should be available to rich and poor alike. Many state constitutions included clauses like Georgia’s in 1777: “Schools shall be erected in each county, and supported at the general expense of the State.” But how to execute this directive? The best way, American leaders ultimately concluded, was to encourage local public schools and to limit the growth of academies.

  27. 27.

    gvg

    @Adam L Silverman: yeah, I keep brooding about the nuclear codes etc. I also think most of the population has no idea how bad it would be for their personal finances if the debt ceiling didn’t get raised and the US defaulted. I wish their was any hope of just doing away with the kubuki. if we authorize something through legislation, we have to pay for it. other countries didn’t inflict this stupid extra rule on themselves. if they think they are spending too much, they negotiate what gets cut.
    I am afraid to leave Trump with only the less sane fools on his cabinet, the ones who could invoke the 25th if he said something crazy” like lets nuke the UK, they insulted me.”

  28. 28.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: I was referring here to Gary Cohn and Steven Mnuchin and, maybe, Wilbur Ross though he seems to keep a real low profile. They’re the ones fighting for a clean debt ceiling increase and a clean CR.

  30. 30.

    low-tech cyclist

    Remember the Cold War-era “soft on Communism” charge? (OK, many of you weren’t even born when that phrase had currency. Bear with me.)

    Time to call Trump – and the GOP, to the extent they don’t call him out – “soft on Nazism,” “soft on white supremacy.,” and “soft on racist scum.” Fuck these bastards.

  31. 31.

    Adam L Silverman

    @burnspbesq: No, the one stable equilibrium is that there is nothing to what everyone refers to as Afghanistan other than lines on a map. There is no coherent, widely accepted ethno-national or ethno-linguistic identity. There is no coherent, widely accepted socio-political consensus. There are six major and another 134 small, medium, and large ethno-national and ethno-linguistic groups each with their own division and each with their own understanding of how things should work. Some of those groups have thought in terms of what we would think of as nationally, most think very, very locally.

  33. 33.

    low-tech cyclist

    @WaterGirl:

    @rikyrah: I must have missed something. What do crops rotting in fields have to do with Trump?

    For some odd reason, the Mexican migrant workers who used to pick the crops for peanuts are staying home in Mexico. And the farmers aren’t willing to pay decent American-level wages for this backbreaking work.

    So the blame’s only partly with Trump, and mostly with the farmers.

  34. 34.

    jl

    @rikyrah: thanks. good article.

    John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, all fanatical supporters of public schools. That spans the ideological spectrum of founders, except for some of the reactionary Southern slave holders and the highest of High Federalists, but they went into the dustbin of history, didn’t they? Wonder how many other issues the biggy founders agreed on. I’d bet not many.

  36. 36.

    Chris

    Politico says McMaster blocked Bannon plan for Erik Prince to pitch privatizing Afghan war at Camp David today; w/ Bannon out so was Prince

    THANK. GOD.

    Says a hell of a lot about the state of the government that “oh, thank God, at least we’re not going with the East India Company plan” is something I can actually think about it.

  37. 37.

    Adam L Silverman

    @gvg: It is a stupid artifact left over from the immediate aftermath of the Civil War. It should have been repealed long ago.

  38. 38.

    WaterGirl

    @low-tech cyclist: That makes total sense – I just hadn’t been paying any attention to what’s happening with farming. When are the republicans going to learn that you can’t have it both ways? Cheap labor! Yay! And get rid of those immigrants, they are lazy good-for-nothings. It’s like they are all children who have learned nothing about how one thing can be connected to another. Party of personal responsibility, my ass!

  39. 39.

    Ohio Mom

    @rikyrah: I am pretty sure that the middle class suburbs of Michigan have also rejected school choice.

    And why shouldn’t they? They have well-funded, well-run districts full of children who have never known hunger or trauma. It’s amazing what that combination of factors makes possible.

    If only we would work on eradicating child poverty instead of dismantling public schools. No money for Devos’s cronies in that however. And too many taxes to raise to make sure each school and its staff have what they need.

  40. 40.

    sm*t cl*de

    The one election promise that Trump took seriously was to embiggen the US armed forces while never sending them overseas to strange places full of angry people shooting at them. Big army. safe at home. Good luck with that.
    Hence McCain’s visit to Australia a few months ago, where he was apologising for Trump and begging for more Australians to die on Trump’s behalf:

    And during a question and answer period McCain suggested that the Australian government might soon be asked to send more troops to Afghanistan. The war, he said, was at present being lost, and the only way to stem the aggression of both the Taliban and al-Qaeda, would be to send in thousands more troops.
    Planning for such a mission was already well advanced, he said, and he expected America to ask its friends for help.

  43. 43.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There isn’t going to be a military coup.

    Expecting any of the military or former military around Trump to stop him from doing something stupid and/or insane is pretty much the definition of disobeying the civilian authority.

  44. 44.

    Chris

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Remember the Cold War-era “soft on Communism” charge? (OK, many of you weren’t even born when that phrase had currency. Bear with me.)
    …
    Time to call Trump – and the GOP, to the extent they don’t call him out – “soft on Nazism,” “soft on white supremacy.,” and “soft on racist scum.” Fuck these bastards.

    I’ve sometimes wondered if FDR missed a chance to go full-McCarthy on the Republican Party during World War Two. Constantly attack the Republican Party as soft on fascism, attack them as fascist sympathizers, rile up the public with lists of “card-carrying fascists” on Wall Street and elsewhere. (God knows he wouldn’t have had to make up nearly as much as McCarthy did).

  46. 46.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: I think some clumsiness also developed in early to mid 20th century. I don’t think US even tracked anything that we would call a consolidated federal budget and spending until several decades after the Civil War.

  47. 47.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: There are ways within the Interagency process, let alone the legislative one, to constrain any and every president. Keeping Bannon and Prince out of Camp David on Friday was one. Being a superb bureaucratic knife fighter isn’t unconstitutional.

  48. 48.

    TenguPhule

    @Chris:

    I’ve sometimes wondered if FDR missed a chance to go full-McCarthy on the Republican Party during World War Two.

    FDR was a flawed man, but not that flawed.

  49. 49.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: Wiki says WWI, when it was introduced to allow more flexibility, since allowed Congress to approve broader appropriation measures. No longer needed Congressional approval for traditional notion of a specific expenditure.

  52. 52.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Being a superb bureaucratic knife fighter isn’t unconstitutional.

    None of the ex-Generals seem to be any good with a sharp edge ruler. They’re not bureaucrats, they’re authoritarians. And when Trump starts shoving, I don’t see any of them pushing back without triggering yet another Constitutional Crisis.

  53. 53.

    Cheryl Rofer

    And another crabby comment: Trump probably won’t suffer any noticeable damage to his eyes from looking at the sun. A short look isn’t too bad. That will give him the opportunity to say that the scientists got it wrong again.

  56. 56.

    Cheryl Rofer

    On a cheerier note, the kittehs wore their vests for about ten minutes this morning. They were not entirely pleased, but they survived and got treats afterward. No pics because I was fully occupied watching them to make sure they didn’t hurt themselves.

  57. 57.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Cheryl Rofer: No argument from me. But if no one is pushing back on Mulvaney at OMB and the Freedom Caucus knuckleheads, then we will definitely breach the debt ceiling and have a government shut down.

  62. 62.

    Chris

    @TenguPhule:

    I think the idea with these guys is that, whether it’s military school or this country’s (admittedly unhealthy as fuck) obsession with the military, generals are the only kind of government types that can actually get away with pushing back against Trump’s idiocy without his immediately trying to fire them.

    We’ll find out just how far that goes, of course.

  64. 64.

    rikyrah

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    On a cheerier note, the kittehs wore their vests for about ten minutes this morning. They were not entirely pleased, but they survived and got treats afterward. No pics because I was fully occupied watching them to make sure they didn’t hurt themselves.

    Pictures, please :)
    Edited to ask:
    Why do the kittehs need vests?

  65. 65.

    efgoldman

    @WaterGirl:

    What do crops rotting in fields have to do with Trump?

    Probably the same thing that happened a couple of years ago in Alabama/Georgia when they tried to make it nearly impossible for farmers to hire migrant labor to pick crops.
    No migrants to pick = veggies rotting in the field,
    ICE’s campaign of intimidation and ethnic cleansing is working

  66. 66.

    guachi

    To be clear, Kelly and Mattis aren’t generals anymore. Only McMaster is currently serving in the military. They may be addressed as “General” but that doesn’t actually make it so or give it any real meaning. I’m under no obligation to actually obey an order they give.

  67. 67.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I have to admit I accidentally caught a flash of light in a corner of my one eye for a fraction of a second. Sun was as bright out as it always was.

  68. 68.

    Timurid

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The problem here is that these are not experts coaching a well-meaning but inept or unprepared President… somebody who might learn something from them, even if the lesson learned is only an understanding of his own limitations.
    These are experts locked in the bear’s cage with a leader who doesn’t accept instruction or correction and whose only goals are enriching himself, crushing his enemies and setting stuff on fire for fun.

    I don’t see how this is sustainable in the long run.

  69. 69.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    But if no one is pushing back on Mulvaney at OMB and the Freedom Caucus knuckleheads, then we will definitely breach the debt ceiling and have a government shut down.

    The pushback from Munchkin has been as solid as liquid marshmallows. The capper was the announcement that there would be no default announced by McConnell today. Which means we’re very probably headed for a complete fuckup to the debt ceiling.

  70. 70.

    gene108

    @burnspbesq:

    There is only one possible stable equilibrium in Afghanistan, and it’s Taliban rule.

    Even under the Taliban it wasn’t peaceful. They were in engaged in a civil war with the Northern Alliance.

    People in Afghanistan, who like the fact an all girls high school robotics team competes in international competitions, aren’t going to be happy with being under Taliban rule. I doubt they’ll passively acquiesce.

  72. 72.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: To be very blunt, you do not know what you’re talking about. You do not make 3 or 4 star general or admiral without being a good bureaucratic fighter. I have met Secretary Mattis twice, for a grand total of maybe 90 seconds of face time. But I provided support to his command group at CENTCOM through his Command Sergeant Major. LTG McMaster endorsed a proposal I submitted to US Army Training and Doctrine Command when he was the Deputy Commanding General, I provided informal support to him in that assignment on several occassions, and, as a result, he was gracious enough to provide me with letters of reference for a follow on assignment I applied for. I do not know General Kelly. I do know a number of people that have served with and under all three of them. All of them speak of their competence as commanders and administrators.

    So far Kelly has won every personnel fight since he took over as Chief of Staff. McMaster has also won all of his now that he has Kelly’s support. Personnel is policy at this level.

  75. 75.

    jl

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks. I saved the pdf for future reference. Interesting to note that from 1917 to 1930s, every move that today results in the very inclusive measure of federal debt that falls under the statutory debt ceiling was initially suggested in order to create more flexibility. That has turned into the exact opposite. Probably because the mammoth federal debs (at least back then) created by WWI and WWII meant that no way the US would get close to debt limit, since country was paying off the war loans faster than it was creating new debt. The link says WWII debt ceiling was kept in place and feds didn’t reach it again until 1962.

  76. 76.

    Adam L Silverman

    @schrodingers_cat: Prince has this guy named Xi bankrolling him. You may have heard of him. Apparently he has issues with India as a regional power. You think Prince came up with this idea out of the blue?

    And I do agree that it wouldn’t have worked.

    Finally, I can’t do anything about the media.

  77. 77.

    SatanicPanic

    @Jay: Well yeah, the job sucks. I honestly don’t think there’s any wage they could pay that would get me out there that would be remotely economically viable for them so I can’t really expect other Americans to do it.

  79. 79.

    Redshift

    @TenguPhule: What color is the sky on your planet? We’ve had months of all sorts of people stopping Trump from doing things that Republicans don’t like, because there’s almost nothing he cares enough about to “start shoving.” Perhaps the one saving grace is that he’s so lazy and incompetent at governing that all anyone has to do (as demonstrated by the transgender ban) is not refuse, just say “we’ll get right on that as soon as you give us detailed instructions,” and he’ll get bored and go after the next shiny object.

  80. 80.

    TenguPhule

    @gene108:

    Even under the Taliban it wasn’t peaceful. They were in engaged in a civil war with the Northern Alliance.

    This is very true. There will only be peace in that region when every man there is dead and the women pick up the pieces from the ashes.

  81. 81.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    To be very blunt, you do not know what you’re talking about. You do not make 3 or 4 star general or admiral without being a good bureaucratic fighter.

    I will bow to your superior knowledge on this.

  82. 82.

    Gravenstone

    @WaterGirl: Sever lack of migrant/undocumented labor to manually harvest. Georgia got a sneak peak at that phenomenon a few years ago when they cracked down on hard on undocumented workers.

  83. 83.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Timurid: It isn’t sustainable in the long term. I fully expect this to continue to disintegrate. Do you want the wings to fall off the plane while it is in the air or do you want them to land first so that everyone can get off the plane safely rather than have everyone taken out in the crash?

    General officers/flag officers are taught and trained to mitigate and manage bad situations. A good deal of what we teach about strategy is that there is often no actual good answer, therefore one has to identify the least worst and develop ways and means to achieve it as well as contingencies to mitigate the damage. That is what is happening.

    I don’t like that it is happening. I don’t like that it has to happen. But pretending it is something it is not isn’t going to get us anywhere.

  84. 84.

    Betty Cracker

    Trump is a narcissistic buffoon who is motivated solely by avoiding public shame and collecting unearned accolades. Before he was president, he could jeer at Obama from the sidelines about Afghanistan and call for the U.S. to withdraw. He could do that because the sitting president would catch all the hell about “losing” Afghanistan. But now that the hot potato is in Trump’s tiny hands, he’ll chicken out.

    My college student daughter was a toddler when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan and started this endless clusterfuck. Whether the U.S. withdraws before she gets to grad school or withdraws when she becomes eligible for Social Security, it’ll still be a clusterfuck.

    I expect Trump will huff and puff tonight about President Obama “letting” a good portion of Iraq fall under control of ISIS and claim that the new Trump strategy in Afghanistan will prevent a similar catastrophe there. But of course Trump couldn’t strategerize his way out of a wet paper bag, so basically it’s just the Mattis strategy of continuing the endless training and counterterrorism mission.

    The status quo will continue until someone comes along who has the guts to get us and the Afghans who assisted us out. That someone will not be Trump because it will take courage and a willingness to eat shit with the “cut and run” crowd.

  85. 85.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    Am I fucked? I’m a little worried. During the eclipse (80% totality, probably less at the time) for a fraction of a second I caught a flash of light in my one eye. Am I going to go blind? My gut says no because it was still fairly bright outside and I’ve accidentally glanced at the sun before. Even looked at the sun from behind clouds (looks like a featureless moon). Thoughts?

  86. 86.

    Mike in NC

    @TenguPhule: The guy deliberately made part of his penthouse look like Versailles, so maybe we should just call him “Sun King Junior”.

  88. 88.

    TenguPhule

    @Redshift:

    We’ve had months of all sorts of people stopping Trump from doing things that Republicans don’t like, because there’s almost nothing he cares enough about to “start shoving.” Perhaps the one saving grace is that he’s so lazy and incompetent at governing that all anyone has to do (as demonstrated by the transgender ban) is not refuse, just say “we’ll get right on that as soon as you give us detailed instructions,” and he’ll get bored and go after the next shiny object.

    The Comey firing comes to mind. There are tricks which can deflect, delay and otherwise thwart Trump’s agenda. But when push comes to shove, if Trump does issue a straight order, that’s fat in the fire time.

  89. 89.

    Mike in NC

    No matter how long Trump speaks on TV tonight, 80% of it will be about his own greatness.

  91. 91.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Finally, I can’t do anything about the media.

    I know, neither can I but venting about it helps.

    Prince has this guy named Xi bankrolling him. You may have heard of him. Apparently he has issues with India as a regional power. You think Prince came up with this idea out of the blue?

    Never heard of him. Also too, Prince doesn’t seem very bright.

  92. 92.

    germy

    @Adam L Silverman:

    This captures the entire presidency in a single picture. Doing exactly what he’s not supposed to do at the risk of lasting damage.

    In this case, lasting damage to HIMSELF, rather than the rest of us (and the world).

  94. 94.

    Timurid

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I think Mattis and McMaster have been so successful so far because their jobs are defense and foreign policy, things Trump cares little about (aside from as spectacle and status symbols) and is willing to defer to the experts on. Trump’s real agenda… and his real enemies… are all inside this country. There is no comparable figure to contain Trump’s worst impulses on domestic policy, and if one were to emerge, he wouldn’t keep his job for long. (For all the hype of Kelly as Chief of Staff, losing him at Homeland Security might be a big problem.) I agree with you that the generals are competent, and they will be instrumental in keeping Trump from getting into real trouble in places like North Korea and reaching least-worst outcomes in places like Afghanistan… but they can’t prevent another Charlottesville or something worse. That’s what will eventually cost us dearly…

  97. 97.

    TenguPhule

    @Betty Cracker:

    The status quo will continue until someone comes along who has the guts to get us and the Afghans who assisted us out.

    So Forever War it is then.

    Having to admit that America fucked up is the cardinal sin of elections (so far).

  99. 99.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: I don’t mean to be rude. So I apologize if I was a wee bit harsh. I know you’re rightly upset and bothered about this. And I’m quite concerned myself. But I’ve worked directly or indirectly for a number of 2, 3, and 4 star general officers and one 2 star admiral when he was a retired colonel. I’ve seen them up close. They aren’t perfect. They aren’t saviors. Most of the ones I’ve worked for have been good at what they do – fortunately. I’ve observed others that aren’t. They are often all too human. In general what general officers/flag officers, especially at the 3 and 4 star levels, are good at is the type of administrating that is helpful in these situations.

  100. 100.

    TenguPhule

    @Timurid:

    For all the hype of Kelly as Chief of Staff, losing him at Homeland Security might be a big problem

    Not really, he’s been a good Trump servant there. ICE has gone completely off the rails under his tenure.

  106. 106.

    Chris

    @Mike in NC:

    I realize that saying this is probably grounds for losing my French passport, but I’m very much of the opinion that, had Trump been born French and 300 years earlier, the palace at Versailles is exactly what he would’ve built. So much bling. SO. MUCH. BLING.

    (Of course, it’s been pointed out to me that if Versailles had been a Trump construction, it would’ve fallen to pieces long before today, so there’s that).

  109. 109.

    Cheryl Rofer

    @? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?: No, you will not go blind. A short direct look at the sun may burn out a few cells. It’s the intensive looking that is likely to happen when following an eclipse that will do serious harm. Trump is likely to perceive no damage and thus will have a talking point against those dumb scientists who keep talking about global warming.

  110. 110.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman: No offense taken. My contacts with military red tape are much less then civilian government red tape. And in my experience, ejecting middle management and then attempting the top-down bullshit being run across the board by Cruz, Devos & Pruitt (just to name the worst offenders) is a recipe for disaster both short and long term. I have no confidence that Kelly or the others are doing any better, especially given the already fucked up levels of infighting at the White House. I recall the shitfests over not being able to select their own staff with the prior applicants.

    No matter how good they might have been working within the military paperwork machine, the system they’re in now has had so many wooden sabots thrown into it that I just can’t see them salvaging anything from the boiler explosion. Doubly so if Trump issues an order that triggers a Constitutional Crisis. I do not want to find out if the cat in the box is dead.

  113. 113.

    Chris

    @Ocotillo:

    If Israel had been created in Afghanistan in 1948, there wouldn’t have been an Israel by 1949.

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah, that’s always the way I felt (WRT Palestine). But if I say that in America, people look at me like I’m some kind of Nazi/jihadist amalgamation…

  119. 119.

    MJS

    @Adam L Silverman: If all of that is true, then I want those three telling Congress, now, that the president is unstable, not fit for office, and must be removed. If they’re not doing that, they’re part of the problem.

  121. 121.

    Betty Cracker

    @Timurid: To the very limited extent Trump is able to admire another person, he seems impressed by military and law enforcement brass. He was probably attracted to the obviously psychotic Sheriff Clarke in part because Clarke has oodles of pins on his uniform.

    I don’t think that admiration is deep or sincere enough to prevent Trump from throwing military or law enforcement leaders under the bus if it would save Trump’s ass or if Trump felt truly threatened by them. But as long as they keep calling him “sir” and couch plans in a way that doesn’t make him feel like the idiot he is, he’ll likely defer to their strategies. It’s not as if Trump has any of his own.

  122. 122.

    TenguPhule

    @schrodingers_cat:

    with respect to India in the recent past.

    I suspect the moment China achieves regional military supremacy, that will change. China’s new mode of operations is to intimidate its neighbors into giving concessions. Once they move enough tanks and missiles to the Indian border, offers are going to be made that India’s leaders are going to have a hard time refusing.

  125. 125.

    TenguPhule

    @Timurid:

    The problem is that the replacement will probably be worse.

    Trump’s constant.

    The 5th law of Republican Thermodynamics.

  127. 127.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Ocotillo: Probably couldn’t have made anything worse. For anybody.//

    There is a persistent true legend, for lack of a better term, based on a 1930s National Geographic article and some other sources that a significant number of Pashtuns, though still a minority of them, were forcibly converted in the mid to late 19th century to Islam from Judaism during a periodic flare up of intra-Pashtun disputes. Based on those reports these forced converts became true believers to prove the legitimacy of their conversions. A couple of generations later the Taliban emerged from their descendants who had no knowledge of their families’ own religious history.

  131. 131.

    Adam L Silverman

    @MJS: Unless or until the GOP majorities, and especially the leadership, in each chamber of Congress is both willing and ready to actually exercise their constitutional roles of oversight and balancing the executive as a coequal branch of government, it won’t matter what they tell members of Congress.

  132. 132.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @schrodingers_cat:
    That’s a relief. In the article I posted, Trump did give a longer look at the sun. What would happen if he did go blind?

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  133. 133.

    Adam L Silverman

    @TenguPhule: One per customer. No rain checks. No substitutions. There will also be a 15% restocking fee on all returns. Store credit only.

  136. 136.

    Betty Cracker

    @Adam L Silverman: I think that’s true, and I’m convinced that’s the calculation they’ve made. But like you said, it’s damn sure skirting if not crossing the constitutional line, covering for President Crazypants.

  137. 137.

    TenguPhule

    @Adam L Silverman:

    One per customer. No rain checks. No substitutions. There will also be a 15% restocking fee on all returns. Store credit only.

    Damn you Walmart!!!

  141. 141.

    JPL

    Sorry if this has been posted .. from Brian Stelter

    Some pundits are already predicting a “good night” for Trump. “This will help him.” “Positive message.” They’re talking about a costly war…

  142. 142.

    MJS

    @Adam L Silverman: I recognize that it’s Congress that has to act. I’m simply saying that if the situation is that dire, Kelly, et al share responsibility for the bad things that happen if they are not letting Congress know how bad things are.

  145. 145.

    jl

    @Betty Cracker: We know Trump likes central casting appearance type generals, like central casting
    appearance everything else. If some of them make trouble, I assume sooner or later Trump will expect central casting type people to know their lines.

    Might be an exception for generals, since I think Trump has a vague inkling that a bad war episode will make him very very unpopular, and that he can’t skate off from a war as easily as money cons.

  147. 147.

    Chris

    @MJS:

    I think the problem is that Congress knows at least as well as the cabinet just how bad things are at the White House, they’re just determined not to do anything about it. For better or worse, they’re hitched to the wagon.

    This is what happens when a major political party turns itself into a cult.

  150. 150.

    MJS

    @Chris: I’m certainly not interested in giving any Republican a pass, but there’s no way Congress knows as much about what’s going on as, for instance, the Chief of Staff. Those who have the first hand information have to share it with those who have the ability to take action. Not saying the appropriate action will be taken, but not providing the information is a form of cover-up.

  151. 151.

    Ruckus

    @Chris:
    drumpf never considers anything outlasting him. He’s perfect, (in his tiny mind) ergo anything that reflects on him as he sees the world is perfect. We keep saying that he has horrible taste, but he doesn’t, he has normal taste. Normal taste for anyone as horrible as him. I call it opulent bullshit.

  153. 153.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Across the entirety of South Asia–where the last Viceroy demitted office in 1947–I know of no place that would welcome another.

    All the more reason to send Mr Prince off to South Asia! It would be his chance to be the noble Lord Jim, bringing civilisation to the Cradle of civilization!

    And if things go bad, heaven forbid! Prince could show those Others true American character by going on General Gordon style.

  155. 155.

    Betty Cracker

    @MJS: I can’t disagree with that. It’s not up to those individuals to make that call. But it might be the least bad option nonetheless. It’s probably the best example of how destructive this presidency has already been.

  157. 157.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @TenguPhule:

    I believe its been mentioned before, but a military coup will make things worse.

    I think Adam has implied we just had a coupe, and everyone is pretending it’s not going on including the members of the Junta so we can keep our democracy at the end of the day.

  158. 158.

    different-church-lady

    @Chris:

    …had Trump been born French and 300 years earlier, the palace at Versailles is exactly what he would’ve built.

    And had he been born French and 192 years earlier… well… you know…

  159. 159.

    Jay S

    @catclub: Having attempted once to take a cat out on a drag, they might turn into suicide vests for the person on the end of the leash.

  163. 163.

    zhena gogolia

    @Adam L Silverman:

    To be fair, he said “coupe.” A champagne glass. Maybe we have that.

    I’ll have one the day POTUS resigns / is impeached / some other means of getting him out of the dump.

  165. 165.

    ? ?? Goku (aka The Hope of the Universe) ? ?

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I think what EVT meant was that the 3 generals are in de facto control in the WH and are trying to do damage control as well as manipulate Trump because the GOP Congress isn’t stepping up to remove Trump from power.

  167. 167.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Chris: Did Rockefellers rebuild/renovate Versailles like they did Williamsburg? Or is that some sort of weird idea I’ve picked up in years of random reading?

  168. 168.

    Jay

    Keep in mind, this:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3404803/Life-Taliban-Fascinating-photographs-idyllic-Afghanistan-1960s-residents-free-enjoy-outdoor-picnics-colourful-markets.html

    was Afghanistan, a socialist democracy.

    Then, tired of competing with the Soviets for influence in the Non-aligned Country, by building hospitals, schools, libraries, highways,

    The US, allied with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, to arm, train, finance and reinforce the Muj, a small group of pissed off armed Quran Thumpers whe were pissed off at all the voting, the education, the medical care, the highways and airports that were pulling Afghanistan into the 20th century.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone

    That war, has never ended inside Afghanistan, but we decided to sit it out from 1989-2001,

    Afghanistan as it is, is the end result of 32 years of war.

    It could have been different, at the First Loya Juirga, but Bush, in his rush to invade Iraq, put the same Warlords, Druglords and War Criminals who had destroyed Afghanistan, back in charge.

  169. 169.

    NorthLeft12

    Really tired of having to see reports of the president’s mood be legitimate news that could literally mean life or death for Americans.

    Ya know, its not as if nobody knew that he was a petulant, needy, bullying ignoramus, right? I guess one of the things the rest of us in the world counted on was that the US President was always someone who we could count on to keep their cool and make big decisions somewhat dispassionately. We may not like their decisions, but at least felt that there was some cold calculation involved in making it. But not with Deadbeat Donald. Dog save us.

  170. 170.

    Ladyraxterinok

    @Ruckus: Reminds me of the decorating style of Paul and Jan Crouch (both now deceased) as seen in the sets for their Trinity Broadcastng Network (TBN).

  172. 172.

    Ruckus

    @Ladyraxterinok:
    Perfect examples of gracious living.

    Not.
    And proof of the fact that people with money can not be trusted to be worth a shit. So we should tax them into say, middle class. Where their decorating skills wouldn’t have to be seen.

  174. 174.

    gorram

    @Adam L Silverman: Perhaps in a Trumpian way, we’re having a coup that isn’t a coup – no break in the line of presidential succession, no overt (still) military authority in civilian office, no martial law or occupation. This isn’t a coup.

    But, and this is the tricky part because it predates and vastly outsizes Trump as a problem, Trump’s ruckus is accelerating an erosion of civilian governance, and making it more possible for a coup to happen down the road because of the precedents being set.

    Basically, if past is prefigured this is a kind apparition of a coup. The sprawling war powers, endless wars, and upper echelons of government steadily becoming quite militarized (in thinking and staffing) are indeed all calls for concern, even if the events of the day don’t quack like a duck, because they’re still quacking.

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